She says it's hard being an ethnic woman in the military. Are finger waves allowed?

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:17:11 -0400

This Soldier says they forgot to put "finger waves" on the not allowed list and she's gonna rock out with them. Is this authorized? Is this faddish? And why do Soldier's keep doing this to themselves making themselves famous for the wrong reasons?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 3:20 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:20:01 -0400

Really??? The Army is about as equal opportunity as you can get. She's just looking for attention.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 3:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:40:27 -0400

I've seen girls with finger waves before. I didn't know they were not authorized. Oh well I have waves too so I guess they are good for females too

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 3:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:59:32 -0400

This hair style is a form of Sculpting which is prohibited by AR 670-1 Section 3-2 Paragraph 3.d. Sculpting is by definition within the REG as- hair sculpting (eccentric directional flow, twists, texture, or spiking). It is not authorized, because it is a sculpting method creating a texture and an eccentric directional flow.

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made May 2 at 2014 4:00 PM

1SG Alan Bailey — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:00:00 -0400

I would say no, it is a faddish hair style, but that is my oppinion, I think faddish can always be the opinion of the person inforcing the standard.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 4:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:02:24 -0400

AR 670-1 CH. 3-2 para 3 "Female haircuts and hairstyles"

Female hairstyles may not be eccentric or faddish and will present conservative, professional appearance.

If you can't comply with changes in the Army, GET OUT! This woman is acting like a child.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made May 2 at 2014 4:06 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:06:55 -0400

What is a finger wave?

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made May 2 at 2014 4:20 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:20:59 -0400

First I do not know what finger waves are. Second the fundamental issue is this: Part of being in the Army Profession and being a Professional is that the individual adapts to the Profession, it is not the Profession that adapts to the individual. Serving in the Army Profession is a privilege, it is not a right. If an individual is unable or unwilling to conform to the Army Profession then they need to do something different. They are looking for a job, not a profession.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 4:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:39:11 -0400

A finger wave a method of setting hair by dampening with water or wave solution and forming waves or curls with the fingers and a comb, this was extremely popular in the 1920s and 30s,- for clarification for all those that do not know what they are

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 5:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 17:02:29 -0400

Too bad that this Soldier was not brave enough to allow the rest of us to see who she is so someone could take the appropiate corrective action

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 9:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 21:16:03 -0400

I'm just glad I can rock my 360 waves

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 11:54 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 23:54:01 -0400

Im trying to understand all this hair drama you guys are having. Our women Marines don't seem to have issues with just having their hair put back, at shoulder length, or naturally grown short.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 3 at 2014 12:00 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 03 May 2014 00:00:18 -0400

Actually, everyone is "ethnic" in someway or another, and I also clueless to what finger waves are. I figured it was something that had to do with one's hands.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 12:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 00:48:15 -0400

I have never heard of finger waves until now but action that depicts our services in a bad light needs to end. Just as we dedicate our lives to our service and country we need to be professional.

We are not 'in the hood' and we cannot allow distinctions that permit every fad that comes along. Not in uniform and definitely not also taking pictures of it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 1:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 01:22:29 -0400

The leader decides. It is up to us leaders to enforce standards. Read the reg...we must use good judgement in enforcing standards. She'd be rocking her signature on a 4856. How bout that.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made May 3 at 2014 2:16 AM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Sat, 03 May 2014 02:16:55 -0400

where is the "wtf are finger waves?" vote?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 9:48 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 09:48:03 -0400

SSG Burns,

Don't worry, a couple of weeks of PT and perspiration will wash those finger waves right out. Unless she chooses to never wash her hair, in which case she has other issues.

I think the reason Soldiers keep putting themselves on blast via social media is that they think they're the one who won't get caught.

For those who don't know what finger waves are, here's a picture. This style was popular 20 years ago and also in the 1920s.

Response by SFC Toby Reid made May 3 at 2014 10:20 AM

SFC Toby Reid — Sat, 03 May 2014 10:20:29 -0400

Faddish and exaggerated styles, to include shaved portions of the scalp other
than the neckline, designs cut in the hair, unsecured ponytails (except during physical training), and unbalanced or
lopsided hairstyles are prohibited. Hair will be styled so as not to interfere with the proper wear of all uniform

headgear. All headgear will fit snugly and comfortably around the largest part of the head without bulging or distortion
from the intended shape of the headgear and without excessive gaps. When headgear is worn, hair should not protrude
at distinct angles from under the edges. Hairstyles that do not allow the headgear to be worn in this manner are
prohibited. Examples of hairstyles considered to be faddish or exaggerated and thus not authorized for wear while in
uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty, include, but are not limited to, locks and twists (not including French rolls/
twists or corn rows); hair sculpting (eccentric directional flow, twists, texture, or spiking); buns or braids with loose
hair extending at the end; multiple braids not braided in a straight line; hair styles with severe angles; and loose
unsecured hair (not to include bangs) when medium and long hair are worn up.

So please leaders, weigh in and give guidance. Because we have a lot of soldiers that feel that they can't serve this great nation freely with the policies like tatoo and ethnic hairstyle restrictions.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made May 3 at 2014 1:04 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Sat, 03 May 2014 13:04:35 -0400

I'm not voting on either because, first I do not know what finger waves are, to me it's giving someone the third finger of your left/right hand. Second the issue is this: Part of being in the military and being a professional is that the individual adapts, it is not the military that adapts to the individual. Serving in the military, I feel, is a privilege, it is not a right. If an individual is unable or unwilling to conform to the military then they need to do something different. They are looking for a job, not a profession. Third, it isn't hard to be an "ethnic" anything in the military: EVERYONE in the military are treated the same when it comes to the rules and regulations. You don't get extra times on your runs in the PRT if you're ethnic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 1:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 13:52:40 -0400

Oh btw, there is something called FOCUS GROUPS. African American women, Officer and NCO; junior and senior were probably part of it. That is how we change policy/fm/tm/tsp...blah blah blah in the Army. We are not civilians, so I have an idea for all of you. Don't like it, get gone. Thank you for your service, I do appreciate it. But we are Soldiers! We follow orders, we adhere to policy, and we meet the standard. Some of us, actually strive to not only meet the standard, but exceed it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 3:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 15:06:23 -0400

This is slightly off the topics but what is an "ethnic woman"?? Last time I checked we are all ethnic in one way or another.

Response by CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. made May 3 at 2014 4:01 PM

CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. — Sat, 03 May 2014 16:01:03 -0400

This Soldier is trying to find her 15 minutes. She has, obviously, not read the new regulation or would know this falls under the sculpting paragraphs, as previously pointed out.

I hope her leaders recognize the need for additional or corrective training needed to fix her lack of awareness of the provisions of the regulation. Personally, I would make her hand copy the entire regulation, in blue or black ink.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made May 3 at 2014 8:54 PM

SFC Gary Fox — Sat, 03 May 2014 20:54:36 -0400

Finger waves are not an ethnic hair style. As someone pointed out earlier, this hairstyle was popular in the 1920's and 30's. The hairstyle was very commonly worn by women of all races. It was all part of the "flapper" look.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2014 9:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 May 2014 21:18:54 -0400

Her hair looks "faddish"

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2014 8:34 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 May 2014 08:34:24 -0400

As long as the hairstyle doesn't go against regulations already set in place then there should be no reason why she can't. HOWEVER, if it does violate 670-1 in any way then it no longer becomes a valid and/or acceptable hairstyle.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made May 4 at 2014 2:16 PM

SFC Gary Fox — Sun, 04 May 2014 14:16:55 -0400

This reminds me of the topic started by a female SFC who was complaining her SGM told her the two buns she was wearing (the Princess Leia look) was not within regulation.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2014 2:19 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 May 2014 14:19:55 -0400

I had a friend who is an CW3. She had finger waves. I thought it was professional looking and it never posed an issue in any uniform.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 12:49 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 May 2014 00:49:35 -0400

What makes a person "ethnic"?

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made May 5 at 2014 3:18 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Mon, 05 May 2014 15:18:19 -0400

Technically they are authorized, being faddish is subjective, and is just a way to allow Commanders the ability to get rid of styles they don't see fit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2014 6:53 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 May 2014 06:53:54 -0400

AR 670-1 3-2, para 3(d) stipulates the following: Examples of hairstyles considered to be faddish or exaggerated and thus not authorized for wear while in
uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty, include, but are not limited to, locks and twists (not including French rolls/
twists or corn rows); hair sculpting (eccentric directional flow, twists, texture, or spiking); buns or braids with loose
hair extending at the end; multiple braids not braided in a straight line; hair styles with severe angles; and loose
unsecured hair (not to include bangs) when medium and long hair are worn up.
So, although it does not specifically state "Finger Waves", it does defne any hairstyle that has a, "eccentric directional flow" is not authorized. Now we can go by letter of the law or sprit of the law, but it is clear that the Army has set the rules in AR 670-1 and DA Pam 670-1, and that is what I will follow. What are you questions or concerns?

Response by Cpl Michael Jadrnak made Jul 8 at 2014 11:22 AM

Cpl Michael Jadrnak — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:22:02 -0400

Its the military not some slack off outfit You are held to the same standards across the board. You already have no shave chits soon our military will look like our country and would never function.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Jan 18 at 2015 7:06 PM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 19:06:08 -0500

I don;t know. If her hair seems professional and does interfere with head gear, it does not bother me. The standard of professional is hard to narrow down for many.

Response by SPC Rachael Lavertu made Oct 14 at 2016 4:29 PM

SPC Rachael Lavertu — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:29:08 -0400

This is frustrating, I never needed my hair to be glamorous while doing my job in the military. If I didn't leave sweaty, stinky and tired then I wasn't doing my job.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Oct 14 at 2016 5:05 PM

SFC Shane Funkhouser — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:05:44 -0400

How hard is it to understand? You joined us we didn't join you. Follow the regs. Set an example. You spoiled ass children should have just stayed in your mommas basement. Grow up.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Oct 14 at 2016 5:11 PM

SPC Roger Giffen — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:11:22 -0400

What the heck is a finger wave??

Response by COL William Oseles made Oct 14 at 2016 5:16 PM

COL William Oseles — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:16:36 -0400

You ask why they keep doing this: stupidity

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2016 6:05 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:05:37 -0400

So, when is someone going to stop these haircuts?

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Oct 14 at 2016 6:19 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:01 -0400

Just my opinion. She needs to shut up, get with the program or get out.

Response by Sgt Carlos Barrera made Oct 14 at 2016 6:58 PM

Sgt Carlos Barrera — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:58:41 -0400

is called regulation for a reason, you want different hair styles, quit. Get out of the military, accept a dishonorable discharge and become a no one

Response by PO2 Anthony Cruz made Oct 14 at 2016 7:15 PM

PO2 Anthony Cruz — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:15:03 -0400

You give up your right to individual express when you enlist. It's why everyone gets the same hair cut in boot camp/ basic training, it's why everyone wears the same uniform.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2016 7:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:58:06 -0400

Though I am more versed - than most of you - in the difficulties of having textured hair in the military, there are limits. Finger waves are a sculpted and faddish style. Besides if you have enough hair to do finger waves then you have enough hair for a more militant style.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Oct 14 at 2016 10:23 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 22:23:38 -0400

Every 6 months or so someone posts something here about a female's hair style. Honestly, I really don't care unless it's clearly faddish or it interferes with her duties. But then again I may be thinking outside the norm.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Oct 15 at 2016 11:16 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Sat, 15 Oct 2016 11:16:23 -0400

This is no way on par with other recent social media blow ups. Just a complaint. She does say she will follow the rules. If the new reg left something out and she try's pushing the boundaries it will only be what Soldiers have been doing forever. When I was in my first unit, 3/2 ACR, so many guys were pushing the mustache thing. Sort of became a game. Let her try, get corrected, fix it. She may be a CSM someday and use it as a story when reaming out her troops.

Edit -Just realized how old this was. The latest social media screw ups make this look tame.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2016 8:13 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Oct 2016 20:13:38 -0400

My wife has extremely thick curly hair. She's of Italian descent but she had similar struggles with keeping her hair within regulation. Instead of bucking the system, however, she made it work. This Soldier should do the same.

The most frustrating part about situations like this is that in our current climate many leaders become extremely uncomfortable correcting Soldiers within her demographic.

Response by SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA made Oct 27 at 2016 10:19 PM

SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 22:19:43 -0400

Service members give up many first amendment rights for the greater good. This includes both one's words and actions. We are all sworn to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. . ." Individuality has no place in the military. If her hairstyle interferes with her headgear, she needs to re-think her choice. If not, her point is moot.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2017 8:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:45:34 -0500

You joined the Army, it didn't join you. You are supposed to conform to what you swore to uphold and defend. Grow up, quit making everything about you

Response by SPC Thomas Hobbs made Jan 11 at 2017 9:04 PM

SPC Thomas Hobbs — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 21:04:02 -0500

First of all, what is a finger wave? Second, does it fall within the guidelines of the 670? Third, what part of "uniform" is so hard to understand? Fourth, why VOLUNTEER to join an established PROFESSION with the intent to change the way things have been done for over 100 years to fit what you want when you could easily go to work in another profession that welcomes the individuality? Fifth, why would anyone think that HAIR is a good enough reason to put a cap on their potential career growth?

Response by SPC Thomas Hobbs made Jan 11 at 2017 9:06 PM

SPC Thomas Hobbs — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 21:06:07 -0500

Why is it the only black people bring ethnicity into the equation?

Response by CSM P Valdez made Jan 12 at 2017 9:02 AM

CSM P Valdez — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 09:02:45 -0500

Will it interfere with the proper wearing of the head gear? Fail, Next Slide!

Response by PO1 Tremayne Brown made Jan 12 at 2017 1:43 PM

PO1 Tremayne Brown — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:43:27 -0500

The military wouldn't have these issues, if boot camp became the weeding out process, that it once was.

Response by PV2 Mario Portilla made Jan 13 at 2017 3:18 AM

PV2 Mario Portilla — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 03:18:18 -0500

Hair is supposed to look professional and in standards if "finger waves" don't look professional, which they don't, go home and fix it.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 13 at 2017 11:47 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:47:02 -0500

I like to see a woman with her hair down...makes the day much more pleasant

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Jan 13 at 2017 11:48 AM

LTC Joseph Gross — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:48:39 -0500

I'm going to guess she is just stupid. Anyone who brings harm on themselves must be... And I don't know what a finger wave is.

Response by Capt William Clough made Jan 13 at 2017 6:03 PM

Capt William Clough — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:03:17 -0500

If we allow everyone to try and change the code's of regulation then the fundamentals of our military structure goes out the window. If you can't live by the regulations then why join up in the first place.

Response by SGT Linda Moss made Jan 13 at 2017 8:17 PM

SGT Linda Moss — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:17:52 -0500

what is this shit with people in the military "ethnic woman/ man" you are OD green.. and it does not speak well of her how .. let me see if I can sneak this in. it you question if you hair style meets regs then do not do it.. when you sign up you are agreeing to follow the rules.. Do not like the rules then get out.

Response by TSgt Julie Miller made Jan 13 at 2017 9:25 PM

TSgt Julie Miller — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:25:52 -0500

Personally I don't know if her chosen hairstyle is within regs or not, but this BS about color and race, ethnicity and gender needs to stop. The military is a choice and volunteer job, it's not the Gap, or Kohls or Burger King. It's an organization where we all are one, one mission, one goal. If an officer or enlisted individual wants to be an individual there is always a job waiting for them in the civilian sector. I served honorably and faithfully for 20 yrs, in my last years I was faced with having to remind a young airman her tongue stud was not authorized for wear in uniform, I had to correct another on her choice of hairstyle and yet another on the proper wear of the uniform. Sadly, each one chose to get out because they couldn't handle the uniformity of military life. It's a choice and if you as an officer or enlisted individual want your individuality then by all means move on. A mission is never accomplished by one, but by the whole.

Response by PV2 Michael Whiddon made Jan 14 at 2017 5:54 AM

PV2 Michael Whiddon — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 05:54:25 -0500

Finger waves are old-timey but they're very trendy now. Trendy enough to be on the state board for hair stylists.(at least in Louisiana.) Also, as the Staff Sgt pointed out below, it is definitely sculpted.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Jan 14 at 2017 8:18 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 08:18:22 -0500

Need to check all that individual crap at the door. The Army bends over backwards to accommodate folks......and in my view they opened Pandora's box with the new round of AR-670-1 changes. Army needs to get back to the basic's.............

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Jan 14 at 2017 8:39 AM

MSgt Allan Vrboncic — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 08:39:25 -0500

You adapt to the military, the military does not adapt to you. She should have joined the McDonald's Organization instead of a Military one.

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Jan 14 at 2017 8:45 AM

MSgt Allan Vrboncic — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 08:45:31 -0500

And it is not hard to be an Ethnic Woman in the Military. You think you are the first one? They is what is wrong now a days. That is what is wrong with our Country these days. People don't want to obey the laws anymore, or obey Military Regulations and Standards.

Response by CPL Richard Rios made Jan 14 at 2017 9:21 AM

CPL Richard Rios — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:21:26 -0500

Child please.

Response by SFC Raymond Burge made Jan 14 at 2017 9:49 AM

SFC Raymond Burge — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:49:46 -0500

Finger waves are no different than putting a little product in your hair to where a white male has a neat part. Get rid of finger waves, then say goodbye to parts.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 11:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 11:41:10 -0500

finger waves are allowed

Response by MSgt Don Smith made Jan 14 at 2017 12:09 PM

MSgt Don Smith — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:09:54 -0500

Do you think by bucking the regulations your being part of the team? If she's going to bend the rule on this what else is she willing to do?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 12:56 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:56:30 -0500

If it's hard to conform the military is not your career path, meet the standards and get out when your contract is up, simple...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 1:01 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 13:01:14 -0500

To me that is nothing else than FAILURE TO ADAPT. In the US military that is not allowed. If by your ethnicity that the way you guys "rock" your hair then the US military its not for you. I had dreadlocks before joining the Army. Since i enlisted, i have a skinned medium fade because that is how we rock it in the USARMY. HOOAHH!!!!

Response by SPC Kim Moreno made Jan 14 at 2017 6:33 PM

SPC Kim Moreno — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 18:33:01 -0500

As long as your cover can fit and it doesn't look jacked up. Why not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 6:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 18:53:03 -0500

Finger waves are considered a faddish hairstyle and therefore out of compliance. Even though it is not identified specifically in AR 670-1, doesn't mean it is authorized.

Response by SSG Shep Kelly made Jan 14 at 2017 10:05 PM

SSG Shep Kelly — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 22:05:00 -0500

I had an issue similar to this. It's bogus. Its catering to non-minotiries. If a white soldier and I had the same haircut mine would be considered faddish because my hair is coarse. It is coarse because of my ethnicity.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2017 11:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Jan 2017 23:15:17 -0500

It's up to her Commander to rule it faddish.

Response by SPC Jessie Ferruolo made Jan 15 at 2017 9:36 AM

SPC Jessie Ferruolo — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:36:23 -0500

She needs to just stop whining about how tough hair regulations are making her life and do whatever her damn chain of command legally tells her to do. As for it being hard for ethnic women in the military I call bullshit.

One of the things I have always been most proud of about the military community is the lack of racism and sexism (at least much much less than in the general pop).
I've also seen what happens to people if they are racist or sexist. This is just someone looking for a reason to complain or trying to seem like a "rebel".

Response by LT Jason Williams made Jan 15 at 2017 10:19 AM

LT Jason Williams — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 10:19:13 -0500

Your talking the culture out of the Military

Response by CDR Aldo Palazzo made Jan 15 at 2017 10:26 AM

CDR Aldo Palazzo — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 10:26:01 -0500

Too stupid to realize there is a new Sheriff coming to town on 20 Jan. The PC BS is going away, probably along with this soldier... ROFLMAO

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 11:30 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 11:30:00 -0500

Ill stick to the good ole bun thank you .

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 11:56 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 11:56:56 -0500

lol. Of all that's going on in the world you guys are concerned with finger waves? As long as she doesn't lose my paperwork. I don't give a damn.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 1:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:15:58 -0500

First of all FINGER WAVES are not an ETHNIC hairstyle, in the 1920's and 1930's woman of all ETHNICITIES wore this hairstyle, it was FADDISH then and it is FADDISH now.
The Military is a PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT if you no longer wish to be apart of it, inform your NCO Chain of Command, if they are anything like me, you can be out of the Military in less than 3 weeks!
I am so very tired of hearing that African-American hair is so hard to comply with Military Standards, this is BS, I am mixed and my hair is TEXTURED, true not the same as others, but I have served and continue to serve with woman that have NO problems keeping their hair in Regulation. The Military,just like our country, is made up of many Ethnicities,but we are all Americans, Individuals need to stop trying to divide our Military by race,as our country has already done.
Either you are in compliance or you can get out!

Response by MSG Ida Gardner made Jan 15 at 2017 4:16 PM

MSG Ida Gardner — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:16:54 -0500

I thought they were authorized.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 5:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:33:06 -0500

What's a finger wave? I'm going to stick with some variation of high and tight or buzzed all over. It's safe and clean.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 6:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:29:51 -0500

Shoot, if you want equality in the military between men and woman, make the male standards the army standards. Off the ears and no longer than 3 inches for both sexes. Equality at its finest.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 6:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:32:01 -0500

Her opening statement is false and a usable excuse these days. Tell me why it's hard being a ethnic female in the army?! Standards are already different for females and what will a hair style do/prove, will it make you work better, make your job easier? The world is a place where you can't always get what you want....and what would you say to other ethnicities? Native Americans have a tradition of long hair culturally, Vikings traditional armies had beards, do we bend for everyone??? For crying out loud we already allow Muslims to have beards and hijabs!!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 6:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:51:30 -0500

Next it will be sergeant I have a hair appointment, and why during the duty day, and then it's the only time they can see me...blah blah blah!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 6:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:53:37 -0500

It also says you cannot have a faddish hair style, and finger waves can be interpreted that way. Ya good luck lol

Response by SSgt Stephen Mills made Jan 15 at 2017 7:20 PM

SSgt Stephen Mills — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 19:20:54 -0500

You when you joined a totally volunteer military that they have rules in place. You knew it before you swore in. Stop trying to make it your own personal club. Follow the rules or get out. Yes, it's really that simple.

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Jan 15 at 2017 7:21 PM

Cpl Thomas Woods — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 19:21:36 -0500

Certain headgear is protected on RELIGIOUS grounds, NOT ethnic or cultural. Military service involves sacrifice.....Long known is a military tradition that says You're going to look "soldierly". If you are unwilling to sacrifice your hairstyle because who you WERE is more important to you than who you ARE NOW, please take you silly snowflake ass to the 1st Sgt., and request a hardship discharge!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 7:39 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 19:39:38 -0500

Well the other issue are her drawn on eyebrows... I am sure she will cross the wrong person and will be taken to task. I love those Soldiers thay think they are above others. Life lesson

Response by SGT Robert Haynes made Jan 15 at 2017 8:03 PM

SGT Robert Haynes — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:03:26 -0500

When in doubt...High and Tight.

Response by SSG Amber Soward made Jan 15 at 2017 8:08 PM

SSG Amber Soward — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:08:50 -0500

She knows she's wrong but doesn't care. If I were her supervisor, I'd have counseled her on the blantant break in policy, if she doesn't change it, and repeat until you have enough for an Article 15, disrespect for a senior NCO or Officer, and any other charge that would apply. Also, with the first counseling I would have another "ethnic" leader with me to explain to her that's she's wrong.

Response by SSgt Vanessa StevensI made Jan 15 at 2017 8:08 PM

SSgt Vanessa StevensI — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:08:59 -0500

Fubar fucked up beyond all recognition!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 8:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:22:32 -0500

Anyone else remember the day when Soldiers worked to stay within the regulation, and not find a way around it? Maybe I missed it over the past 20 years, but I've never heard more complaining about the reg being racially prejudicial than I have in the past few years. If you can't confirm to the military get out. It's not our job to conform to you or your individual needs.

Response by SGT Dusty Roth made Jan 15 at 2017 9:00 PM

SGT Dusty Roth — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:00:29 -0500

I was told by a friend, just prior to joining the Army, the best advice about serving in the military. This advise still holds true today.
They dress you in camouflage. This means that you should blend in and remain hidden. Do nothing to make you stand out in the crowd. Those guys get shot first.
Same advice goes for hair styles.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jan 15 at 2017 9:08 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:08:35 -0500

It's really very simple. If you don't want to be part of the team, get out. Being part of the team means following the same rules and regulations that all the other parts of the team do. If all you wish to do is play barracks lawyer, then you're a distraction to the team and therefore a liability. Go away and play games in a location that won't get people killed. Buh-bye!

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 15 at 2017 9:23 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:23:32 -0500

Wtf is a finger wave?

Response by SP5 Jamie Smith made Jan 15 at 2017 9:40 PM

SP5 Jamie Smith — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:40:34 -0500

What makes me the most sad is that I have seen an NCO try to address a female who's hair was not in reg (half natural, half braided) and she accused him of being racist and threatened an EO complaint. Men are facing this issue now, with only some being allowed to have beards. Just wish we could focus on the mission and not why we are mad we can't wear our hair a certain way.

Response by LCDR Kevin Morris made Jan 15 at 2017 9:50 PM

LCDR Kevin Morris — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:50:58 -0500

Naw...Just let Top handle it...someone thinks they're special? If it undermines good order & discipline, one can hope uniformity wins out.

Response by SP6 Htebazile Yrac made Jan 15 at 2017 10:31 PM

SP6 Htebazile Yrac — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:31:14 -0500

Faddish

Response by PFC Shawn West made Jan 15 at 2017 10:32 PM

PFC Shawn West — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:32:37 -0500

It's really not difficult to adhere to regulations. The fact that you want to make a stink about it online, means you just want to be different and want attention. Next time you want to be different, shoot someone else's targets at the range. Quit being an axe wound and follow the standards you agreed to follow.

Response by SFC Brady Gilkerson made Jan 15 at 2017 10:55 PM

SFC Brady Gilkerson — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:55:18 -0500

After 8 years of the current administration the military has been used as social experiment to pass political policies instead of enforcing standards. Young entitled service members believe they have the right to challenge regulations instead of adhering to them. It's a matter of discipline and the lack there of.

Response by SFC Harold Streat Jr made Jan 15 at 2017 10:55 PM

SFC Harold Streat Jr — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:55:52 -0500

Being in the military service is a privilege, it means being a part of something much bigger than yourself. It is a communal inner society based on uniformity, a way of life which requires policy compliance. Service members must understand that wearing the uniform sometimes means that you may have to sacrifice or set aside your personal wants or ideologies for the benefit of the greater good and overall mission accomplishment. This is undermined in an environment where the concept of team is marginalized and individuals are permitted to standout and dominate the spotlight, albeit for the wrong reasons. If one is unable or unwilling to comply with organizational policy, sacrifice for the greater good, or make the effort to blend into an environment that is supposed to function as a chorus, then perhaps they might consider another job or profession, one that promotes and encourages individualism versus emphasizing "the team."

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2017 11:38 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:38:54 -0500

There is a reg that states the curtains must match the drapes.

Response by SFC Rocky Stepp made Jan 15 at 2017 11:46 PM

SFC Rocky Stepp — Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:46:07 -0500

Weak ass NCO'S, make weak ass Soldiers! If you're that resistant to the regs, maybe the Army is not for you. If your NCO'S are questioning or challenging this, they are weak and don't need to be leading troops. Find a different role model. You Lead From The Front!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 12:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 00:27:19 -0500

What a fool

Response by MAJ Luca Luca made Jan 16 at 2017 2:06 AM

MAJ Luca Luca — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 02:06:18 -0500

A some point, there will need to either be a line drawn in the sand as to when enough is enough or the Army will just say "f@#k all" to regulations. Increasingly, individuals are being allowed to serve under their conditions. Either you are in it or you aren't. If you are in, as the mantra that was grilled into me said, "look like, act like and be like a soldier". Get too it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 4:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 04:03:04 -0500

Couldnt have been my soldier. I had very short hair on active, and yes as a young soldier I pushed the bar on AR 670-1. Until one day i called myself dying my hair to a lighter regulated color and it turned orange and I got embarrassed by my SFC. As a NG soldier, we have 28 days to be a civilian come drill weekend u gotta tighten up and be a soldier. I have to counsel my female soldiers constantly. We signed up for this and yes it sucks, cause sometimes u want to shave one side of ur head and dye ur hair unicorn pink.......but you can't. Listen this ain't 1996, we not Zhanè singing Sending My Love.........we are soldiers, all that gel she used to prove a point on instagram is a waste she could have just slicked her hair back, pinned a regulated bun back there and kept it pushin. These young soldiers! I can't with them!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:48 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 05:48:48 -0500

The day they allowed soldiers to question everything and commanders allowed it....Well enough said.

Response by SFC Ronnie Booth made Jan 16 at 2017 8:24 AM

SFC Ronnie Booth — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:24:26 -0500

It's idiotic to even write an article on this stupid shit, conform to the standards or get your ass out!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 8:29 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:29:21 -0500

African Americans female will always be difficult because, the regulation is not made to fit us as colored women. Managing our hair is a job of its own, and insure that we are presentable at all times including pt we have to style our hair differently. Now some things may be too much an could be pushing the rules. Whoever push these regulations should ask us as black women about our hair so they can be more educated on the process of caring for our hair.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 8:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:31:17 -0500

What in the blue hell is this? Where is this soldiers leaders. Her commander can put a easy stop to this by considering it a fadist hair style. I am a ethnic male and pointed sideburns where a thing but, army regulation left it up too be determined as fadish so I couldn't have them. Stop making that a excuse.

Response by CPL Pascha Morgan made Jan 16 at 2017 9:21 AM

CPL Pascha Morgan — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:21:17 -0500

Probably because the Military refuses to acknowledge that White is NOT the "default" race. When they do you will probably have less of this because people of color will have THEIR specific grooming and physical needs addressed as well.

Response by 1SG Marque Davis made Jan 16 at 2017 9:45 AM

1SG Marque Davis — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:45:02 -0500

Voted wrong, they are not authorized and if a soldier wants to be an individual there are other jobs where they came be and should consider a career change vs. a chapter 10 and less then honorable discharge which will stay with them for life. Hair not worth it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 11:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:32:46 -0500

That's what's wrong with y'all now like the Army owes y'all something. You raised you right hand and said the oath no one put a gun to your head and made you say and by doing that you agreed to follow all rules and regulations. So if y'all don't like it then like any other job you can leave. People won't don't this nonsense at other jobs if they had rules cause they would fire you right there. It's about professionalism. If your deployed please tell me who in the hell going to be putting figure waves in your hair. So I wish people would stop this nonsense. If the Army was to change cause everyone felt it should change to what they want then the Army would lose its basic fundamentals it's built on and wouldn't have a Army one of the only true professions that's still out there. So go if you don't like standards please LT.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 11:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:32:51 -0500

its faddish

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 11:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:34:23 -0500

And another thing only if the Army and some of the woman who serve have issues with this. Can't be a coincidence you don't hear about this from the other branches.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Jan 16 at 2017 11:44 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:44:16 -0500

Technically retirees still hold that tank, but really it's pointless to use it for anything. Maybe something like, "retired general smith, or military analyst," or former SFC Smith, or military adviser fire the movie."
Besides something like that, too lens credibility who really cares.

Second, this was a spouse not the servicemenber. One of the many spouses who attach their own identity to their spouses'. Just because he/she is married to one doesn't mean that he/she is one. He or she is Mrs. Smith, or Mr. Smith. The spouse, who is actually serving, is 1SG/LTC/Capt/MSGT/SCPO/whatever Smith.

Response by PO3 Barbara Huehl made Jan 16 at 2017 12:23 PM

PO3 Barbara Huehl — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:23:37 -0500

As long as the hair is undercontrol and not going against any other hair regulations. We r allowed to curl our hair. I donnot see the problem

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 12:44 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:44:30 -0500

As stated earlier by others, serving is a privilege not a right and the concept of professionalism is dying away because the army has become too concerned with feelings. As much as I love the army, I am glad that I'm signing out on terminal leave this week so I don't have to worry about being pissed off about things like this. Well...I probably will still be.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 12:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:55:27 -0500

Her hair is cute for sure but definitely not in regs. I have about 5 inches of 4c Afro on my head. Twist and braids are my go to for when I wear my uniform. I sometimes wear it as is bc it is easy. She could easily do this hairstyle for a weekend when off duty or during week when off duty if reservists. new regs have made a difference and I'm glad they revised them to match today's diverse army.

Response by MSG Neil Martin made Jan 16 at 2017 1:39 PM

MSG Neil Martin — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:39:05 -0500

If you don't like the rules and regulations set forth by the Military and don't want to follow the AR-670-1 get out of the Military and go work some where else. I am so tired of these whining little piss ants thinking that they have a right. The only right you have is to follow the regs set forth. GROW UP.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 1:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:58:45 -0500

The Military has always had a very strict dress code. However much of that dress code is based off of beliefs that are starting to waiver. Many of these policies have elements that have been grandfathered from the early 1900s where the vast majority of soldiers were heterosexual Christian farm boys. Society has changed, its become more diverse and the picture of what is or is not professional is changing and the Military is reluctantly changing with it. It's obvious that much of what we were told just a few decades ago just wasn't as crucial as it was made out to be. We have women and homosexuals in the Military some in combat roles, beards are starting to make a comeback, "minorities" are now just as prevalent as "non-minoritys". The Military is trying to compensate for it's new diversity by creating new policies granting "minoritys", middle-aged soldiers, and women privileges that those young Christian farm boys don't have. The problem is that the Military is no longer just made up of mostly Christian farmers it's become an even mix and now those farm boys are saying, "Why can't I have shoulder length hair, tattoos, ponytails, or a beard? Why do I get chaptered when I do 25 push-ups on my APFT but a female or an older person with my same job skills who does the same is getting promoted?" What the Military should have said from the start is that APFT and grooming standards should be the same for everyone and focused more on actual job skills and training for those skills but they didn't/couldn't and now they are dealing with the inevitable consequences of that which is discrimination lawsuits and having to eventually make those accommodations anyway to avoid further court battles and in about 15 to 20 years the standards for who can be a soldier and what that will entail will be a completely different animal.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jan 16 at 2017 2:12 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0500

As long as they are within the army dress code. Besides, if the army allows the wearing of Hijibs for Arab American females, why pitch a fit ( once again ) when African American women switch it up while keeping it within Regs.

Response by SGT Robert Vieras made Jan 16 at 2017 2:40 PM

SGT Robert Vieras — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:40:11 -0500

You joined the Army you need to follow the rules plain and simple, unless you want an Article 15 every week. Better yet make you push for every little finger wave.

Response by SN Angelica Navarra made Jan 16 at 2017 3:05 PM

SN Angelica Navarra — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:05:10 -0500

They already changed the hair regulations to allow braids and twists what more do women want they are getting so much more than previously allowed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 3:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:11:01 -0500

I understand and respect the reason why the military have standards, and I get the fact that a Soldier is a Soldier regardless of gender. But if the hairstyle is not too radical and still looks professional Soldiers should be allowed to have it. This is solo my opinion, I know what the regs states.

Response by SPC Ken Sawyer made Jan 16 at 2017 3:25 PM

SPC Ken Sawyer — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:25:01 -0500

My personal opinion is women scream for equal rights then they should have to meet the same ref as the men. If not they aren't equal period. I really don't give a rats behind why someone " feels " that they need a different hair style the regulation is just that suck it up or get out.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 3:59 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:59:11 -0500

According to the AFI code. You shall not have faddish hair styles

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 4:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:43:27 -0500

She will win. That what the Army does now is accommodate. The wars that are fought in the Army these days are with the liberal media and whining millennials.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 4:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:46:50 -0500

KRISTEN GILLIBRAND: Do you believe that allowing LGBT Americans to serve in the military or women in combat is undermining our lethality?

JAMES MATTIS: Frankly, senator, I’ve never cared much about two consenting adults and who they go to bed with.
Our focus, as a fighting force, should be our lethality and our ability to take a beating. If soldiers want tatoos, fine, but you best not fall out of a movement. Want long hair, sure, but if the enemy get hold of it, you better not go down until your scalp separates from your skull. Want the long beard, cool, but you die after the head is COMPLETELY spun around 306 degrees on the spinal column.
Its time to quit worrying about sex, orientation, ski-color, hair, tattoos and all the shit that keeps us from performing our primary mission (USR), preparing to go into harms way, completely break the opponents will to resist and, take some selfies and trophies, so, after the armistice, when their representatives come to visit, they are reminded of the humiliation of fighting us. Get over yourself and give yourself to your chosen vocation (Yes, I said vocation, because any asshole can go through law school and call him or herself a professional) and stop bringing up this bullshit.

Response by SGT Michael Bever made Jan 16 at 2017 4:55 PM

SGT Michael Bever — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:55:23 -0500

Shouldn't male and female hair regs be the same? Equal rights for all.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:51 -0500

They are considered a faddish hair style. Your type of soldier is the reason for the issues we have today. your supposed to be an officer and a LEADER act like itv

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:16 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:16:44 -0500

Question,

So what if I am a Marine and I frost the tips of my hair a brown or blonde?
good to go or no?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:26 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:26:01 -0500

Not trying to be rude, or unfair... but hair regs for females just got changed to allow dread locks. When done right this looks nice and professional. Being a female, especially a white Asian, I am scolded when my hair is not tightly in my bun. I tried bangs but someone always said they weren't in regs (length wise, everyone has their opinions) Mind you I respect what my chain of command tells me and I know they have my best interest. So I now pin my bangs. One thing I will never figure out is that people continue to test the limits. If the regs would have said finger waves is allowed then awesome for those that have it. But it does not. All this pettiness when we should be worried about more important issues.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 5:34 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:34:06 -0500

Not by AR but by common sense, does it look clean, kept, and professional? That is what should determine whether or not its "ok". Easiest way to counter "bending the rules".

Response by SrA Troy Curry made Jan 16 at 2017 6:16 PM

SrA Troy Curry — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:16:43 -0500

What the hell is a finger wave?

Response by SGT Javier Pérez made Jan 16 at 2017 6:27 PM

SGT Javier Pérez — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:27:46 -0500

That's what happens with all that "sensitivity training".

Response by Sgt Tre Crabtree made Jan 16 at 2017 8:06 PM

Sgt Tre Crabtree — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:06:43 -0500

Soup sandwich...football bat

Response by Robin Hyatt made Jan 16 at 2017 8:26 PM

Robin Hyatt — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:26:20 -0500

I think that finger waves are not a "faddish" style. They have been around since the 1910s and are a very classic style. It is a form of cueling hair, which doesn't seem to be prohibited under the regulations. I think it may be open to interpretation as to whether it is "faddish" or not. I don't think her in your face attitude about it will go far with the interpreter lol. Better to say nothing and hope it flies I would say.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 8:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:51:25 -0500

Most powerful soldiers in our Army.

Response by HA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 9:03 PM

HA Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:03:05 -0500

I think it looks fine, especially with the new style most navy men have been rocking these days. Faddish is such a grey line

Response by SP6 James Raymond made Jan 16 at 2017 9:29 PM

SP6 James Raymond — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:29:44 -0500

Haircut standards don't just fall in the lines of reg it also is at unit digression but we see military never changes always trying to get away with something.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 16 at 2017 11:40 PM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:40:24 -0500

How about... adapt to the Military vs. having the military adapt to you... I adapted...

Response by MIDN 2/C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2017 11:57 PM

MIDN 2/C Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:57:24 -0500

In my humble opinion, if it makes the uniform look bad, unprofessional, or non-uniform, it should not be good to go.

Response by SFC Pedro Rodriguez made Jan 17 at 2017 12:50 AM

SFC Pedro Rodriguez — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:50:01 -0500

This soldier should follow regs and not try and circumvent the rules. You asked to enlist in the Army the Army did not ask you. You signed the contract no one put a gun to your head. Now deal with rules.

Response by SGT Paka Calimlim made Jan 17 at 2017 12:51 AM

SGT Paka Calimlim — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:51:10 -0500

AR 670-1 says: ...Female hairstyles may not be eccentric or faddish and will present a conservative, professional appearance. For the purpose of these regulations, female hairstyles are organized into three basic categories: short length, medium length, and long length hair.

Response by SGT Joe Hatten made Jan 17 at 2017 1:03 AM

SGT Joe Hatten — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:03:53 -0500

Hey soldier, and I use that loosely, I am 20 years retired Army NCO. Always remember and never forget "they can't take away from a regulation, but they can add to it's. Live the rest of get out....ethnicity be damned...its the Army....suck it up buttercup.....finger weaves....wth....smh....be all you can be...a missed era....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 3:29 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:29:34 -0500

I'm so glad I got out.... hate to see the current joes go to a new conflict...

Response by SGT Lloyd Burge made Jan 17 at 2017 9:43 AM

SGT Lloyd Burge — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:43:50 -0500

When I was at FT Riley (1976), we had one soldier with a 24in afro on weekends. On Sunday night he would use a can of Dippity-Do, and his cold weather cap to pack his hair in, and be within REGs by Monday morning. As long as he did an excellent job,and was within REGs while in uniform, no one cared what he looked like in Civies.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 9:59 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:59:47 -0500

My response to these females is this. Our current Miss USA is a black Army officer. She manages to be beautiful, maintain her ethnicity, and look professional, while maintaining the regulations.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Jan 17 at 2017 10:11 AM

SSG Wally Lawver — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:11:59 -0500

So glad to be retired,,,,,,,,,,,I like being in a "protected class" myself, retiree..........Nobody wants to say, do nothing on active duty ,why? The endless EO complaints, constant bickering about what is authorized/not authorized ............etc etc etc

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 10:16 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:16:24 -0500

If the Army leaders allows keffiyahs.... Why worried how the female Soldier comb their hair.

Response by MSgt Marty Davis made Jan 17 at 2017 11:00 AM

MSgt Marty Davis — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:00:47 -0500

If you can't adapt, don't join! I am getting so tired of this new generation pushing the rules! The military is not "just a job", it's a lifestyle... Leave your whining at home with your parents...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 11:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:22:14 -0500

She will probably try to pull a "Flournoy"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 12:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:04:21 -0500

Finger waves ..I say no. At the same time I personally understand the struggle. Many of us African American women do not naturally have the hair texture to wear what many consider to be "neat". Chemical processing destroys the hair. Next to cutting it short in a masculine type hair cut or braids our options are limited if we decide to keep our hair natural. This hair style is faddish so imo it's a no go. Instead of taking jabs about conforming to ethnicity, talk to an African-American woman in the military, learn, then come to a conclusion based off the knowledge you gather.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 12:08 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:08:10 -0500

She wanted an undivided attention so let's make her famous. Her unit will be proud of her.

Response by SGT David T. made Jan 17 at 2017 1:21 PM

SGT David T. — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:21:38 -0500

Thankfully, I am discharged and do not have to deal with these sorts of issues anymore. I really feel for the leaders who do.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jan 17 at 2017 1:58 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:58:35 -0500

In my opinion, they should be authorized, however I can see many leadership calling it unauthorized.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 2:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:22:45 -0500

I think your a loser, sham-shield

Response by Cpl Richard Banks made Jan 17 at 2017 4:12 PM

Cpl Richard Banks — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:12:15 -0500

Careful Gunny's gonna get you

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 5:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:16 -0500

Read AR 670-1. Now, finger waves are considered a fashion style hair do.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 5:31 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:31:28 -0500

A 1lt testing the waters? lol remember that's pretty much a glorified private. I would have just done what a soldier should do. Stop thinking about myself and instead direct my efforts towards the mission. There is planet of places to do what she signed up for. Maybe she didn't learn her army values. A little selfless service goes a long way there battle

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 6:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:03:47 -0500

That soldier is a "NO GO" at this station

Response by SPC Stephen Parke made Jan 17 at 2017 7:36 PM

SPC Stephen Parke — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:36:29 -0500

If she can't handle it then she should get the hell out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 8:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:08:18 -0500

So by ethnic, she means a race outside of White. Being a black woman myself, it is difficult to find hairstyles that our hair can conform to without any issues that is also within regulation. For some who have relaxed (permed) hair, it isn't much of an issue. However, those who are what we called natural and possess a more "kinky" and coarse kind of textured hair, well sometimes no matter how much gel and product we place in hair, it will not lay down nor adjust. Which is why most black women will get hair extensions that will do what our natural hair won't. So the soldier has a valid point in her initial statement. HOWEVER, she is completely out of regulation for having finger waves. Not only is that unprofessional in ANY type of professional work environment, the regulation does not allow sculpted hair. She is completely wrong for the hair do. If she wanted finger waves or felt that her hair was such a big deal in her career she should have never joined the military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 8:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:09:18 -0500

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 8:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:17:33 -0500

That hair style isn't is regs, isn't professional and it's a fad. There is nothing natural about that hair style and it's really sad she used the "ethnic" excuse to support this hair style, especially when there are real "ethnic" problems that need to be addressed and solved.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 10:26 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 22:26:26 -0500

What part of the UNIFORMED portion in the UCMJ do people not get? IT'S IN THE TITLE!!!!

Response by Sgt Kevin Sullivan made Jan 17 at 2017 10:31 PM

Sgt Kevin Sullivan — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 22:31:36 -0500

Everyone is ethnic

Response by Cpl Zach Wellborn made Jan 17 at 2017 11:14 PM

Cpl Zach Wellborn — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:14:10 -0500

It's hard being in the military period. You're not special. You bleed red white and blue like everyone else. Want a pay raise? Shut up and earn one like everyone else. If I said it's hard being white in the military I'd be laughed out of the country.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 11:29 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:29:02 -0500

SSG Robert Burns - I hope you got consent from this Soldier before you reposted her Facebook post on RP. If she receives any type of discrimination or bias for position or for promotion based on your post, you could be looking at some type of legal action.

Response by LTC James Troia made Jan 17 at 2017 11:47 PM

LTC James Troia — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:47:55 -0500

Fire for effect or "Let's pop smoke."

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2017 11:48 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:48:21 -0500

12oz curls

Response by SFC Charles Kauffman made Jan 18 at 2017 12:10 AM

SFC Charles Kauffman — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 00:10:55 -0500

So, under what conditions IS it easy to be an ethnic woman? And what ethnicities are we talking about? Is there a higher degree of difficulty assigned to different enthnicities? What about transgender ethnicities. Will we soon have to deal with transgender transethnic?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2017 12:26 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 00:26:27 -0500

Finger waves are not authorized under AR 670-1 because of the whole no sculpting thing. But tbh if your hair is short enough for finger waves, they lay fat & slick to the head & would not interfere with any kind of head gear. Finger waves interfere even less that a bun that is authorized. &!It's not an unprofessional hairstyle & you can't say the Army "forgot" because who's about to list every hairstyle there is on a go or no go list?

Response by CPL Cedric Stennis made Jan 18 at 2017 6:02 AM

CPL Cedric Stennis — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 06:02:11 -0500

She totally assed herself by saying "I'm gonna rock them out." Women in the service (specifically black women) continually try to stretch the boundaries of AR 670-1. Just show up to work in the damn uniform, look like a troop for 8-10 hrs, then go home and play makeover on your down time man SHEESH! What women (in general) fail to realize is that the military in NOT a fashion show. Pick a different profession if you want to look and feel like a woman.

#AndTheyWonderWhyGuysGiveThemSoMuchShit

Response by Deneen Brown Gabriel made Jan 18 at 2017 7:30 AM

Deneen Brown Gabriel — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 07:30:22 -0500

Finger waves is a hair style... It isn't specific to an enthic group. In the 1920's every nationality wore their hair like this.. They also cut their hair into bobs. Now if you were being told to straighten your hair.. That would be a different story. Although your hair looks pretty ... You are in the military and everyone is to look the same... So pull your hair back and put on your camos... You have no ethnicity... You are all green!

Response by SGT Major Dixson made Jan 18 at 2017 8:37 AM

SGT Major Dixson — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 08:37:03 -0500

yawn... next

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jan 18 at 2017 10:38 AM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:38:19 -0500

Standards come and go and come back again. That is the way of the military. Go with the flow and change with the constant changes or get out. Simple.

Response by PFC Kimberly Crosby made Jan 18 at 2017 10:47 AM

PFC Kimberly Crosby — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:47:01 -0500

As a black woman having ethnic hair I do feel that the military is limiting black females with new regards that require chemical processing or straightened hair styles or a short fro. From what I've read the regulation targeted black women. More women are embracing natural hair but I will say these new regulations target them for that. So by them instituting these regs they have opened the door to discord amongst soldiers. And I disagree with it being a privilege to serve. It's more like an honour. I personally believe that as long as the hair is neatly put in place without disrupting their head gear, I don't see what the problem is. This is truly a senseless issue.

Response by SSG Erica'petagaye Boucher made Jan 18 at 2017 3:15 PM

SSG Erica'petagaye Boucher — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:15:49 -0500

I've worn them a lot in my career the small neat ones of course. As long as it is professional I don't see a problem!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2017 5:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:04:48 -0500

Some just like to fight against - than follow the law.

Response by SSgt Robert Clark made Jan 18 at 2017 7:10 PM

SSgt Robert Clark — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:10:59 -0500

This post is a joke, right? You, SPC, are in no way equal to a SNCO, WO or Commissioned Officer. If your post is anything other than a joke you are in for a very long miserable existence in the Army.

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Jan 18 at 2017 7:33 PM

SGT Tim Fridley — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:33:06 -0500

I guess I am an old timer. I have know idea what a finger wave is LOL. However when I was in any faddish haircut was unauthorized even if not mentioned in the Reg.

Response by Jeanine Jennings made Jan 18 at 2017 8:29 PM

Jeanine Jennings — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:29:25 -0500

As the only Ethnic Female Hair Stylist for both the Young Men and Ladies at WPMA I can say I myself know the regs and am very aware of the recent regulation changes that has been revised. From my perspective I get the whole Uniform Requirements but what I don't understand is what does having your hair a certain way have anything to do with how well you perform your duty or complete the mission at hand. For Ethnic Women to just wash and go it's not as easy as it is for non ethnic women. If we wet our hair too much it can cause damage, to be pulled back in a bun all the time is not good either it causes breakage around sides and back of head from too much tension. Our hair needs a

Response by SSG Cheri Kelley Miller made Jan 18 at 2017 9:33 PM

SSG Cheri Kelley Miller — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:33:26 -0500

It considered a "faddish" hairstyle. Therefore according to AR 670-1 and the military grooming standards this hairstyle is considered to be unauthorized. It also states straight line parts are the only authorized part in the hairstyle. Finger waved hairstyle is not a straight part, therefore this is style and unauthorized hairstyle. That being said no she is NOT within regulation.

Response by SFC George Smith made Jan 18 at 2017 10:12 PM

SFC George Smith — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:12:44 -0500

looks Like some one is Pushing the issue and going to try to Push their Luck with the Regs...

Response by WO1(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2017 12:42 AM

WO1(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 00:42:51 -0500

If it's not in AR or DA Pam 670-1, it's a NO-GO. Too easy.

Response by SP6 Melvin Klausmeyer made Jan 19 at 2017 10:04 AM

SP6 Melvin Klausmeyer — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:04:38 -0500

I hope not both of these traitors should be shot

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2017 11:04 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:04:43 -0500

Do your finger waves off duty when you wear your earrings and carry a purse. We are not in the army to look pretty. We are at a job with conservative standards and though you may not agree with them, there is a reason they are there.

Response by SPC D Allan Kuehl made Jan 19 at 2017 2:17 PM

SPC D Allan Kuehl — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:17:20 -0500

To my knowledge there is no regulations specifically against it.

Response by SPC Ashley Huff made Jan 20 at 2017 11:41 AM

SPC Ashley Huff — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 11:41:59 -0500

Army standards are too simple. Corporation from both genders is must. You're not there to find your soul mate or to attend a fashion show. You're there to do your job and go to war. Don't like those options, easy enough, get out of the military...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 8:58 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 20:58:39 -0500

When I was on my second deployment I was deployed to Camp Bucca attached to the Army and they had an individual there who decided that it was discriminatory to allow women to grow long hair and not men. So he chose to grow his out regardless of what his chain of command said. Needless to say, the court martial (that he decided to go through when they offered him judicial punishment) found him guilty and convicted him of federal offenses. One of my troops decided to dye a section of her hair cherry red to quote "blend nicely with her black hair". I do not understand where people now get the idea that rules and regulations do not apply to them and that the best way to get change is to just ignore them.

Response by SPC Audrey Kerby made Jan 22 at 2017 10:47 AM

SPC Audrey Kerby — Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:47:05 -0500

Uniqueness is not part of the uniform. If you wanted to be unique, you should have gone to art school.

Response by SPC Kelsey Harris made Jan 22 at 2017 11:43 AM

SPC Kelsey Harris — Sun, 22 Jan 2017 11:43:34 -0500

I dont understand what is so hard about regulations. Ethnicity doesnt matter. Regulations are regulations. When i had my hair long, it wasnt exactly a cake walk putting it into a bun, but guess what....I followed the regulations and kept it moving. To easy.

Response by CPL Samantha Utykanski made Jan 22 at 2017 10:27 PM

CPL Samantha Utykanski — Sun, 22 Jan 2017 22:27:28 -0500

Defiantly not authorized as it's a faddish style... I've had long hair and short hair in the Army and while yes I am a white woman I have the frizziest hair on the planet as I have naturally curly hair. I spent more money on hair goop then I did any other item in 8 years. As soon as my hair was long enough to pull up I did, or I chopped it short again.

There are those of us who understand we volunteered to wear a uniform and do a job and those who don't. The ones who do present themselves with military bearing and a professional appearance. The rest... we already see make blatant fools of themselves for social media and the rest of the world to question and judge.

It shouldn't be about if a faddish style is allowed, it should be a question of why is this woman a Soldier if she's not willing to follow the simplest of regulations. People who combat 670-1 will get those who understand it killed.

Our grandfathers and fathers wonder what happened to the Army, here's your example in one screen cap.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2017 5:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Jan 2017 17:20:38 -0500

Ridiculous. She is an NCO and should know better.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Jan 24 at 2017 12:55 PM

CPO Bill Penrod — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:55:40 -0500

Send her to the desert or to a ship so she can cry about a three minute shower.......

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jan 27 at 2017 4:54 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:54:09 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner The only this this indicates is somebody who shouldn't be in the military and nothing else.

Response by CPT Jack Petzko made Feb 3 at 2017 8:16 AM

CPT Jack Petzko — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 08:16:49 -0500

If something is not OK by AR 670-1, then it is NOT OK. And with respect to being ethnic, my view is the same as some men who insist that their religion requires them to have a beard. Fine - go to an country where that is permitted and join
THEIR army. Finally, WTF is gonna happen when these folks try to don a protective mask? Simple answer, they are gonna die, and will will require one of their buddies to drag their sorry asses back for help.

CPT, Retired

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Feb 9 at 2017 7:19 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 19:19:44 -0500

I think she is just trying to prove a point and doing it the hard way.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2017 2:49 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Feb 2017 02:49:12 -0500

I dont have ethnic hair but majority of the females in my unit do and they never have issues. I've seven more fucked up hair styles than that... put your hair in a bunch and get over it!

Response by SGT Keira Pickering made Mar 2 at 2017 11:01 PM

SGT Keira Pickering — Thu, 02 Mar 2017 23:01:06 -0500

It humors me how many white people have ignorant comments on here like a bunch of barracks lawyers. The regulation is not written with much consideration of the natural states of ethnic hair, it was mostly written taking the cultural assimilation of ethnic people to whites and the hairstyles that whites deem appropriate. As for those concerned about if her gas mask is going to fit, that equipment was designed with various hair types in mind so just as many whites are likely to die as well from their hairstyles. Everyone is really quick to complain about something someone of color does yet I don't ever see the ART 15s for these faddish hair dyes and sunburns white soldiers come in with which are also against regulations... These snarky comments are getting out of hand but I suppose that's the point of the forum.

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made Mar 7 at 2017 9:59 AM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Tue, 07 Mar 2017 09:59:29 -0500

A finger wave is also slang for a medical exam procedure that men get.

Response by MSgt Rosemary Connolly made Mar 28 at 2017 10:29 AM

MSgt Rosemary Connolly — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:29:23 -0400

I wasn't sure what a finger wave was either so I did an internet search. I came up with a vintage 1920s hair style and men's prostrate exam. Personally, I view military service as a profession. If I wouldn't see my news reporter do something, then it's unprofessional.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Mar 29 at 2017 12:27 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 12:27:40 -0400

Like others have said I have no clue what a finger wave is. As for her saying basically if you aren't white its hard being in the military that is complete crap. During my 14 years I never had a single troop that went through any hardships on base being non-white. I had Japanese, South African, Canadian, Kenyan, and South American troops that I supervised. While some people might have commented on their accents and asked about the county they came from nothing was ever derogatory. I think if you try and fit in with everyone else and be part of the team you do fine. If you try and stand out, don't listen to commands, and try to do things your own way you will have a hard time in the military.

Response by SrA A.A. Hall made Apr 4 at 2017 8:33 AM

SrA A.A. Hall — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 08:33:44 -0400

I don't care who you are, think you are, the color of your skin, or how you pray or don't pray. If you chose to join the military then act like it! Be proud that you are in the military get this dam"d ethnic chip off your shoulder! It doesn't belong in the military.

Response by PO3 Weslyn Whitehead made Apr 4 at 2017 10:01 AM

PO3 Weslyn Whitehead — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 10:01:51 -0400

I understand the want to do something different personally. Our hair is different and versatile. No one thinks twice if a servicemember puts mousse in their hair and slicks it back but when it's a melanated person wanting to braid their own hair culturally common for us or give ourselves some pride in our look it's an issue.But when indian or arabs come and bring their cultural looks the military bends over backwards to accommodate them even so far as changing the style of cover. A finger wave is a short cut that in no way shape or form causes any type of battlefield issues (ie putting on gas mask or sticking out from her cover. It is also similar for men who have brush waves at the top of their cut. We really do make a big deal of the wrong things. How about the more important issues like. Woman getting sexually assaulted or disparage in rank and pay. Issues with not enough pay for our service members.
Just like forcing melanin rich men to shave their face to the point where a no shave chit had to be established because of the damage being done to our face. But for nonmelanin rich skin types who can scrape their face all day and it does nothing then because it's good for them it should be good for everyone. We don't live in such a clear cut world and if you make concessions for one group then exacerbate the other because well you know they are "rebels" then you're causing your own issues and shouldn't be complaining about them when they arise.
Serving is not a privilege it's a decision that is agreed upon.
May I remind you of those who served just to be able to get there freedom from slavemasters. And fought hard only to be denied those freedoms when coming back from wars if they even made it back. I wish we would get out of this delusional world where we pretend the military is such a glorious endeavor.
It's a bold endeavor, it is a challenge and a way to test yourself and sometimes learn who you are. But make no mistakes about it. When it comes to focusing on women of color and men of color there has always been a different standard on what was allowed and what got someone chewed out. We can pretend all day that the military doesn't see color and all that other fancy sounding bullshit but it does and has sense the beginning. And this post is a clear example of that.
"The most striking characteristic of the race was a certain sense of personal independence--willfulness of action-- freedom from restraint."
-excerpt from the book. "History of the United States by John Clark Ridpath. ... v.1.Ridpath, John Clark, 1840-1900."
*You talked about it back then and still talking about it now.*

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Apr 4 at 2017 10:06 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 10:06:36 -0400

She may find herself in more shit than she can shovel. There are certain standards of conduct that EVERYONE must adhere to and one must always be cognizant of the fact that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 4 at 2017 10:17 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 10:17:14 -0400

Organizational Theory: Organizations are like organisms: every organism has an asshole.

Response by SPC Derrick Brown made Apr 4 at 2017 10:58 AM

SPC Derrick Brown — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 10:58:39 -0400

Wow, has RallyPoint always been this much of a liberal pity party? I think it's time for me to cut sling load and move out.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Apr 4 at 2017 11:52 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 11:52:14 -0400

What are finder waves?

Response by PO3 Michael James made Apr 4 at 2017 12:30 PM

PO3 Michael James — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 12:30:57 -0400

I do NOT believe it is authorized /// however /// That is exactly what Congress and the VA think, and reply to us !! It is time for Congress to lead this Country with mature and responsible actions !! Time for Congress to act like our Veterans and put our Country FIRST !!

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Apr 4 at 2017 6:56 PM

TSgt Denise Moody — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 18:56:39 -0400

I had no idea what a finger wave was so I looked it up. It's just a short wavy hairstyle and shouldn't interfere in the wearing of cover. So should it be authorized, of course. Oh and it's a twenties and thirties hair style... many actresses back then had some form of it.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Apr 4 at 2017 9:20 PM

SCPO William Akin — Tue, 04 Apr 2017 21:20:18 -0400

Color me confused. In the Navy of my generation a "finger wave" had nothing to do with a 'hair style'.... It had everything to do with a Doctor sticking a finger up your ass and waving it around, aka a "Digital rectal examination"

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Apr 5 at 2017 1:36 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Wed, 05 Apr 2017 13:36:47 -0400

The issue is that she sees herself as an ethnic woman... Thus anyone outside if that sphere, to her is a subhuman so to say... She feels like she is a special unique snowflake for being an ethnic woman... When in fact she is a pompous moral busy body that melts at the slightest application is heat

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2017 3:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Apr 2017 15:33:40 -0400

First I would just like to point out that you should never put another member on blast. Anyway, she is wrong for the fact that she's doing for such reasons alone. It is unprofessional, and she's let go of her military bearing by creating this post in the first place. Regulations are there for a reason and are meant to be followed. Don't like it? To bad, suck it up butter cup or get on out because this is what we live by, and this is how we will conduct ourselves. This Army is getting a little ridiculous, and to many people are becoming way to complacent.

Response by PO1 Dinah Goodman made Apr 6 at 2017 3:40 AM

PO1 Dinah Goodman — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 03:40:27 -0400

Hard being ethnic in the military? Please. I am ethnic. The military is the most accepting career you can have. It is very easy. You join and you comply with the rules and regulations. No excuses, no whining. If you are unable to do so, perhaps another career choice would serve you better but doubtful because you will probably say the same thing on just about any other career as well. You are not a victim.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Apr 6 at 2017 4:57 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 04:57:02 -0400

Seriously, grow up and be and act like a professional service person and quit playing the ethnic card..

Response by PO2 Ric Beard made Apr 6 at 2017 4:19 PM

PO2 Ric Beard — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:19:10 -0400

So take it up with your chain of command and get a formal answer. Then adhere to the rule. Or make a mountain out of a mole hill because you want attention. Why do soldiers keep doing this? Because there are not strict enough repercussions to deter against future cases.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Apr 6 at 2017 11:45 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Thu, 06 Apr 2017 23:45:46 -0400

Until this very moment I have never heard of "finger waves"... given the descriptions, they don't appear to be legal. Is this the most important thing we have to discuss on this forum?

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Apr 7 at 2017 10:00 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Fri, 07 Apr 2017 10:00:38 -0400

Maybe a different career instead of Army ......

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2017 8:36 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:36:39 -0400

Is there an issue with this hairstyle? Is this considered trendy / sculpted?

Response by SGT Woodrow Greenfeather made Apr 11 at 2017 8:49 AM

SGT Woodrow Greenfeather — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 08:49:20 -0400

This type of sh*t will be the downfall of NCO's in combat arms, especially the infantry.

Response by Lt Col Robert Canfield made Apr 11 at 2017 9:36 AM

Lt Col Robert Canfield — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 09:36:18 -0400

There are only two kinds of "finger waves" I am familiar with. One involves the index finger, and the other does not (...figure it out). The one that does not involve the index finger, is definitely unauthorized.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Apr 11 at 2017 1:33 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:33:40 -0400

Do it ONCE to an NCO and life can be difficult ,so long as she follows orders ,she is fine.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Apr 11 at 2017 1:53 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:53:02 -0400

I remember when we couldn't do Finger Snaps would cause Arthritis so would a Tube taking off 1/4 inch of my trigger Finger...laffs MilitantCrip Oh no He Didn't...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2017 9:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:46:25 -0400

If finger waves (whatever the hell those are) or hair at all is a top priority for you in the military then I hope to god we don't end up working together.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 10:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 May 2017 22:16:12 -0400

I understand that all NCO's know is AR 670-1. However, 670-1 is the oldest AR that has just been modified do to the Hair and recruiting issues for the military. Please post the updated hair regulation. Before you share your wonderfull knowledge on the one Regulation you know. The military is constantly growing and changing because any General with a 1 star or higher knows, without soldiers you do not have your easy pay. The idea that one must conform to the military is about 40 years outdated. I am not sure where someone who would say that went to College but my guess is not the West Cost or the North East coast... We need to stop worrying about hair and learn how to rebuild the Green Team. The Army has lost its Values and we need leaders that can uphold those before we can discuss hair.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made May 17 at 2017 4:21 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Wed, 17 May 2017 04:21:16 -0400

Response by SSG Stephen Wondercheck made May 18 at 2017 3:50 PM

SSG Stephen Wondercheck — Thu, 18 May 2017 15:50:55 -0400

Regulations are regulations AR 671-1 maybe need updates but any fades of today are not authorized that's exactly what they are just fades not professional at all!!

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made May 22 at 2017 8:43 AM

1SG Patrick Sims — Mon, 22 May 2017 08:43:27 -0400

You joined the U. S. Army to serve the United States of America, protect its citizens and defend the Constitution-----If you want to be a privileged character---You should have joined the Peace Corps.

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made May 24 at 2017 9:24 PM

1stSgt Jeff Blovat — Wed, 24 May 2017 21:24:38 -0400

Why is it hard being an "ethnic" women in the military? When I was AD, there were different ethnicitys everywhere. We didn't worry about it. We just "did".

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jun 8 at 2017 5:19 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:19:57 -0400

What the hey is a finger wave?...

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Jun 11 at 2017 12:30 PM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:30:03 -0400

Because they're stupid

Response by SN Nomar Vazquez made Jun 15 at 2017 2:03 AM

SN Nomar Vazquez — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 02:03:05 -0400

The DOD has to recognize certain realities: the hair of people of west african descent has a unique texture and requires a completely different grooming process. Products that are sold to straightening it out actually harms the scalp to the point that some of those products cause chemical burns. Enlisted and Officer leaders must educate themselves before they issue new guidelines.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 25 at 2017 12:20 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:20:02 -0400

Frankly I don't have a clue what a finger wave is in this context. I read the Army reg on hair that was put up on RP a while back. I still couldn't tell you what women's hair styles are permitted without a beauty consultant.

I served though the 70s and 80s where long hair for boys and some men was the style along with long side burns and mustaches. Many of my military contemporaries pushed the hair and beard regulations as far as they could. They carefully measured their hair to ensure they grew every millimeter of hair they possibly could. As they approached the end of their service, they ran out of give-a-sh** and let it grow knowing there wasn't enough time left to NJP or court martial them for such an infringement. The conclusion is there's always one person that will push every limit. They often end up getting themselves in trouble, possibly recommended for separation as "unfit", and sometimes damaging the morale of the entire unit. Good NCOs and Officers try to lead "the one" in the right direction. Sometimes they succeed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 6:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Jun 2017 18:14:28 -0400

I can tell you from experience AR 670-1 can be a double edged sword. Most people don't understand that some things in the regulation can turn to a race issue.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Jun 26 at 2017 8:40 AM

SSG Clayton Lam — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 08:40:05 -0400

I think some people forget sometimes that we all wear the same uniform Army wide. The only look we as Soldiers should be trying to obtain is the "professional" look. Many may say that is a very broad statement but last time I checked we are not going to work to put on a fashion show. We need to have pride in every aspect of what being a Soldier is. Which means we need to practice discipline in what we wear and how we wear it (civilian clothes and the uniform alike). We cannot pick and choose which regulations we want to follow. We should not create an excuse to do the wrong thing especially if we are a NCO. The last time I checked the NCO creed says "No one is more professional than I". The NCO creed also says "I will at all times conduct myself as to bring credit upon the corps, the military service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself". Let's remember these things not just as something memorized but an oath that is reflected through our actions so when you look back at your military service you can say you served with honor, discipline, and integrity.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2017 10:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:17:27 -0400

It shouldn't concern you if it doesn't pertain to you. If her head gear and promask fit properly and her leaders are ok with it, why would anyone's opinion on here matter. Go do some pushups and SSD4 and prepare yourself for promotion.

Response by SGT Jorgi Jeffcoat made Jul 4 at 2017 9:27 PM

SGT Jorgi Jeffcoat — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 21:27:00 -0400

Just because "finger waves" are not directly mentioned, as being unauthorized, they fall in line with a hair style that is fadish, and there for in direct violation of AR 670-1. Shouldn't be any conversation past that point.

Response by MSgt Fred Powers made Jul 4 at 2017 10:32 PM

MSgt Fred Powers — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 22:32:53 -0400

Back in the 80s in Europe, the women in my unit were told that their hairstyle had to: 1, confirm to AFR 35-10 (now 36-2903), and 2. be able to not interfere with putting on a gas mask. Needless to say, many of the women SPs wore their hair short.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2017 7:27 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 19:27:24 -0400

She looks like boo boo the fool.

Response by CPL Robby Raetz made Jul 10 at 2017 4:41 PM

CPL Robby Raetz — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:41:06 -0400

Then get out of the military if you can't follow the regulations. It's not about being an individual it's about dedicating yourself to something larger than you. What is this ethnic garbage? You join the military and you leave ethnicity out of it. You become assimilated into the military not individualized by your gender or ethnicity.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2017 8:56 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:56:53 -0400

The army is hard for anyone who cannot or will not follow the rules. Bye. Bye. (Finger waive inserted here).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2017 7:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:09:29 -0400

It's hard being ethnic!?? What??? Hardly any WHITE women! Give me a break. Stop being a martyr and Soldier up sister. Otherwise... GET OUT of my military!!!

Response by SPC Makissa Lewis made Jul 15 at 2017 8:28 AM

SPC Makissa Lewis — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:28:24 -0400

Since, you don't know what finger waves are why are you making yourself famous for not knowing? It isn't hard to look up.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 5:45 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:45:16 -0400

It's reminiscent of the '20s and '30s, and being that it has been around for about a century, and generally conforms to the shape of the skull, in my opinion presents "conservative, professional appearance." It is far preferable to the craniopagus weave. "Go" at this station.

Response by SGM Nathan Thomas made Aug 3 at 2017 2:29 PM

SGM Nathan Thomas — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:29:35 -0400

I have been retired 20 years as of May 2017 and I was in the military 21 years before I served in a unit that had both male and female soldiers. The first question when faced with a situation is, was it in compliance with current regulations? Was it legal and was it ethical? We are going to run into issues all the time. The hair style is not new as it was in style back in the 20s and it was not an ethnic thing. There is a proper way to address issues in the military. You take it up your chain of command and if you think you are being treated unfairly, then take it to the IG. Back in the day there were soldiers that packed their hair and after duty blew it out. Time will tell on this particular hair style, but as I read right now here is what I have. https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/362941.pdf

362941.pdf

e9Äy(GÝïýL4'89ï,¶&ÚV(98Bóe[m]_)tfË{b^ÐÖyTÜ»øÄséDöwäÖìm_ Vún(UãëC{8QlÙgfC#G·Ø8 øÏ.ëÙ]=û6L3ÑD)I,C3s·º4ÙËÅjZÇß¡váÕwÁæÌç]I~«7$pºyCÝ|hûæIð'ùõü/ïxâDôe·ðUáÑ§üQwVOÌpJÜÒÑ$ÍmS;.+äìÉÜÐ¡Qrëÿ5NíÄXÐðß6/s6b"oÉ1$e[P*Ç}==« ¡TÓ1Ù9uúÆcú1Üå/Á8Ï_]¡Ê0ÒOsðMöF_WFÇY(aN!Æ··cn«g@7¶àÁüFHÄ-ß4ù-òPnAùEÄ`bPØVGßpKxdòK¡éò}luÜ\ÙJtÙìFç:@Ö|O$jPÀm»FN0Mþ_f»»ÛúóÛn KÝ ß[Rçõ§qÌ5Üa`Øëdó!äÆ)ÖÞÅøãA Çy0ÇeèS0)\w-ÙÅo+ìt~[hVÈÖÚÉ ôIkÈ.rwÕw(xÿ)QÃd|»moBLâiNZ@§57x#úñbòVêð@*yà8ý)úôDÀ_à_k[qÊ57ÜuHM...

Response by SFC Timothy N. Livengood made Aug 3 at 2017 2:39 PM

SFC Timothy N. Livengood — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:39:14 -0400

I look at it this way. We all have a story. If we allow stuff to get to us it will and can break you down. There are a great deal of successful people in this world regardless of ethnicity. Dwell or move on.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Aug 6 at 2017 2:33 PM

MSG Don Burt — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 14:33:10 -0400

A little education...
1-a method of setting hair by dampening with water or wave solution and forming waves or curls with the fingers and a comb

2-The signal given by drivers in the South acknowledging their friendship or acquaintanceship with an approaching driver. It consists of lifting the pointer finger of the hand that is sitting at eleven, twelve or one o'clock without removing the hand from the wheel.

3- The slang definition of the term, initially attributed to the military, was used for a prostate examination.
Whatever daffynition is used, the implication really lacks the Professionalism and Military Bearing that you were supposedly taught in Basic, AIT or even Common Sense and Courtesy you should already know about.
If you are so offended by someone or some thing, then do one of three things, grin and bear it, contact your superiors, develop a thicker skin.

Response by SPC John Chambers made Aug 6 at 2017 5:51 PM

SPC John Chambers — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 17:51:32 -0400

The Chain of Command needs to back their NCOs when the NCOs attempt to correct soldiers who are out of line. Our job in the military is warfare, bad attitudes make for bad unit morale which translates to piss poor warriors

Response by PFC Jim Sears made Aug 8 at 2017 11:59 AM

PFC Jim Sears — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 11:59:17 -0400

I was in the Army in the mid 1980s. The Army had strict guidelines as to what was allowed and what wasnt. The military regulations haven't changed just the people. Our U.S. military needs to get back the basics and start being our military again.

Response by PO2 Willis Linn made Aug 12 at 2017 9:12 AM

PO2 Willis Linn — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 09:12:37 -0400

Number One, this comment on the military being only a profession is bullcrap, it is a Duty, an Honor, a show of desire to be loyal to our way of life, "our people the Government", the Constitution, and it's something that requires dedication to others. It is not a tool of politics, it is not allowed to follow unconstitutional orders, and it main job is to protect America. A female in our military is following a long history of service in areas and times where they are abused, disrespected, and harassed while serving, and now trying to force them to go beyond what is seen as a form of expressing some sexuality is dang near enslavement. What real propose is behind these new restrictions, are women less loyal, less committed to service, is their contribution less because they want to appear as normal as possible without restricting their ability to serve? I have seen how many officers and NCO's who want more from others then they themselves are willing themselves to give. Strict female hair restrictions are not in military tradition, and except for the need to wear special combat gear they were already strict enough. Just because people chose to serve don't mean they give up their humanity. Maybe you should look at it this way, if you're married to or dating someone have them chop off their hair just because you are serving, and it might show you why it is unfair to push anyone that far even in service relationships are still an important part of life.

Response by SPC Kristina Robinson made Aug 13 at 2017 12:17 AM

SPC Kristina Robinson — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 00:17:49 -0400

No offense to anyone of ethnicity, but you have tofollow the rules, im so tired of everyone thinking that corporations need to make an adjustment for them. Hair do's, clothing, facial hair and head.gear...(if ya'll remember a while back, an officer got permission to wear his beard and head towel thong.
Heck even I know as a nurse I have to put my hair up in a poney tIll its there policy.

Response by SPC Larry Weigel Jr. made Aug 16 at 2017 6:07 PM

SPC Larry Weigel Jr. — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:07:31 -0400

Just a thought but let's not have any double standards at all, no special treatment for anyone since we're all on the same team. Everyone, and that means everyone, wears their hairs high and tight!!

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 16 at 2017 6:28 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:28:57 -0400

I would say to use the whole hand when waving. Its easier to see and you won't be mistaken for giving the single finger wave! It's very important in this day and age when some folks may feel insulted. I hope I helped?

Response by Pvt Mark Epperson made Aug 18 at 2017 11:10 AM

Pvt Mark Epperson — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 11:10:05 -0400

Just what is a finger wave?

Response by SGT Louise Hawthorne made Aug 19 at 2017 8:49 PM

SGT Louise Hawthorne — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 20:49:01 -0400

My duties in the Army included serving as a Chemical Operations NCO/Instructor for 1CD, FT Hood TX. I'm also an African-American woman.
IAW AR670-1, The requirements are that your hairstyle doesn't hit your collar, OR HAMPER THE PROPER FIT OF YOUR ARMY ISSUED PROTECTIVE MASK, AND HEADGEAR WHEN WORN.
In other words,...
When you get your 'do did, make sure it passes the gas chamber.
Doesn't matter your job description,,,
YOUR A SOLDIER FIRST.

Response by MSgt Jeff Bailey made Aug 24 at 2017 6:19 PM

MSgt Jeff Bailey — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:19:14 -0400

Being an "ethnic woman" is hard?

Then I'd guess being a moron must make it even tougher.

EVERY man, woman and child on earth is part of one or more "ethnic" groups.

Response by CPL Glynnda White made Sep 1 at 2017 8:28 PM

CPL Glynnda White — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 20:28:29 -0400

OH GOD!!! PLEEEEEZ....can we get rid of the victim thing in the military? ENOUGH! If the lady doesn't like the hair standards set for women in the military....get OUT!!! STOP THE WHINING ALREADY! I can't believe she has made SSG with that freaking attitude!!!!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2017 12:47 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:47:39 -0400

EVERYONE is goddamn ethnic, including Caucasiosn. Piss on this poor child. Grow some balls or leave.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2017 12:56 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 12:56:27 -0400

I certainly can't speak on Army regs. However, I believe in wearing the uniform correctly. That being said, as a black woman, I understand the struggle with being in regs when it comes to hairstyles. I think that some people who do not have these struggles think that we are attempting to be faddish. They do not realize the limited options we have as far as not damaging our hair while attempting to remain in regulation. Our hair is delicate, and we would still like to have it after we leave the military.

Response by SPC Tommy Dean made Oct 2 at 2017 2:43 PM

SPC Tommy Dean — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 14:43:00 -0400

You go ahead and rock it out girl.. with your giant painted on eyebrows that make your sunglasses look like goggles.

Response by SFC Steve Renner made Oct 10 at 2017 6:23 PM

SFC Steve Renner — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:23:01 -0400

I guess it would depend on which finger you're waving

Response by SPC Jesse Davis made Oct 14 at 2017 2:49 PM

SPC Jesse Davis — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:49:42 -0400

"Making themselves famous for the wrong reasons."

Given the visibility that this got originally, let's clarify the fact that the only reason she's at-all 'famous' is because you are bringing this spotlight on her. You care more than anyone else does and you are dragging this controversy to her step.

That said, mileage may vary on difficulties that you might have as a minority - particularly as a woman. Given the cultural significance of hair, it's sort of a big deal that there has been such a battle and obstacle against black women that don't perm, for instance. Contrast this with straight hair that is given a small variety.

I'm also certain that the finger wave bit was a joke. Then again, I don't think that this is being shared here to make sense of this or to sympathize with this soldier's experience.

Response by MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS made Oct 15 at 2017 4:26 PM

MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 16:26:33 -0400

Not to be insensitive. . .
The only fingerwaves I know of, are for prostate exams.

Response by COL William Oseles made Oct 18 at 2017 10:43 AM

COL William Oseles — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:43:55 -0400

Playing the race/gender card is a poor way to start your discussion IMO.
NOT explicitly banned means she needs to read the regs instead of trying to be a rules lawyer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2017 5:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:41:12 -0400

Just my two cents...first off, she is not within regulatory guidance. Secondly, as a female with some unruly natural hair, there are only a few hairstyles that I can wear that, in my opinion, allows me to present a professional appearance. For me, the natural look is for one, a lot harder to maintain than most, and two, does not look well kept (For me). With that being said, when the regulation was changed, it became difficult to keep my appearance as a professionally well groomed soldier. The hair styles that were deemed faddish took away this ability to maintain said appearances. So glad that it was amended, because I tell you what....this hair that I have would have driven me mad. So, at the end of the day, I think the big debate was more about being able to maintain a professional, soldierly look, as opposed to making a fashion statement for the majority of folks....but just my two cents.

Response by SSG James Behnke made Oct 30 at 2017 7:10 AM

SSG James Behnke — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 07:10:08 -0400

Not Authorized.
Faddish.
SOLDIER's forget that they joined the Army. The Army did not join them. It doesn't matter what hurts your feelings or makes you FEEL singled out. What matters is universal conformity to standards and unit readiness, period. Don't like it? Exit stage left.

Response by CPT Don Biscuit Retired made Oct 30 at 2017 11:10 AM

CPT Don Biscuit Retired — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:10:35 -0400

I had a finger wave while on active duty. During a physical exam, in the doc's office.

Response by SGT Darrin Numbers made Oct 31 at 2017 10:06 AM

SGT Darrin Numbers — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:06:30 -0400

Nothing about this sits well...

First and foremost, your not ethnic anything when you put on the uniform. You are a soldier, your identity is simply that. When your off duty, if you want to identify with your race, religion, whatever, knock yourself out.
Second, its called professionalism.... finger waving, eyerolling, head movements, all that is for children, and back on the block. Keep it to yourself.

Lastly, you know the standards, 670-1 is pretty clear cut. There is no variation, inturpretation; it is as it states. Follow the rules or suffer the consequences. Your leaders should be able to assist you if you dont understand.

The cries for attention, the need to be an individual is just rediculous, move out and draw fire...

Response by SSG Joel Pack made Nov 1 at 2017 8:30 PM

SSG Joel Pack — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:30:11 -0400

Hard being an ethnic woman in the Army is hard. How?
So you want to be able to wear your hair how ever you want, & this makes it hard for you?
When you worked at McDonald's and they made you wear a hair net, did you stand up and protest, or quit? Probably not.
The only real issue that may make your life in the Army hard is your piss poor attitude. After serving 21 years in the Army. Dealing with people like you, witnessing females getting away with more than they should, because they were females. I can politely say if you want to wear your hair how ever you want, go back to McDonalds.
I very rarely respond on this forum but you really pissed me off. I'd bet that you're probably one of those disrespectful losers who think it's ok to slump down is your car seat during flag call.
In closing, you have the right to express your opinion, and so do I. IMHO
People like you would best serve thier country by NOT serving in the military.

Response by PO3 Timothy "Tim" Dzurnak made Nov 3 at 2017 4:48 AM

PO3 Timothy "Tim" Dzurnak — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 04:48:23 -0400

We are all suppose to be UNIFORM...and Equal..there is no room for any of this bull shit..leave it and home.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Nov 5 at 2017 12:12 AM

1SG Rob Smith — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 00:12:19 -0400

Regulations are their for a reason

Response by Cpl Donn Etherington made Nov 9 at 2017 2:02 AM

Cpl Donn Etherington — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 02:02:09 -0500

what the fuck is a finger wave? How about instead of trying to bend the rules, or make new rules, you obey the rules that were in place when you joined? How hard is that? This is the United States military, follow the rules or get out. Simple as that. Don't like it? Tough shit.

Response by Cpl Donn Etherington made Nov 9 at 2017 2:15 AM

Cpl Donn Etherington — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 02:15:06 -0500

Hey sir, I know half the company is KIA, but are my finger waves in regulations? Shit POG's talk about is pathetic. How about you harden the fuck up and follow the regs!

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Nov 27 at 2017 2:52 AM

SSG Dave Johnston — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:52:06 -0500

If she wanted to be an "Ethnic woman" why in the name of the All Father did she join the military. Once you raise your right hand and take the oath the only "Ethnicity" one has is the particular branch of Service you signed up for. Army OD Green, Navy Blue, Air Force Sky blue, etc. Those are the ethnicities that exist while you wear the uniform, the previous ethnicities that you held dear prior to, no longer exist until you decide to leave you fellow companions who guard this Nation.

Response by Cpl Vincent Porter made Nov 27 at 2017 5:07 PM

Cpl Vincent Porter — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:07:24 -0500

Okay so just looking at the picture, I don't see why they wouldn't be authorized.

Response by SSgt Lennard Hutchinson made Nov 28 at 2017 11:59 PM

SSgt Lennard Hutchinson — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:59:31 -0500

no they are not allowed it is a loophole and with all the officials point of view they don't like so it is not allowed they will find a way to make it hard on a sister , an yes it is hard being an ethnic woman in the American Military

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made Nov 29 at 2017 12:01 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:01:27 -0500

Maybe try the Knife Hand when you become an NCO.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 1 at 2017 2:24 PM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:24:15 -0500

The military has a tense relationship with hair. I personally don't see a problem with it even though it may be considered to be sculpting, however lots of people sculpt their hair. In fact anyone using mousse or hairspray or similar products sculpting their hair. Following the letter of the law any one who takes off their helmet and runs their hands through their sweaty hair and doesn't immediately fix it to it natural lie has sculpted their hair.

Now I'm not a hairstylist or a black person myself so I cant speak to the differences between black hair and white hair, but I have seen Barbershop and an HBO Chris Rock special and from what I gather their are differences that may indeed make it more difficult to fit into regs depending on the scalp the hair grows through. It may very well be if its not sculpted it will look like trash to begin with. Also many folks have shaving profiles (which I cant stand personally, but hey regs right?) for similar reasons.

That being said I do think the SM in question acted unprofessionally and if I were NCO, even though Id agree with her in principal, my command strength is more important. Id see this as a challenge to my authority and would act accordingly to fix the problem, then pull her aside and tell her how small the military community really is and that there is actually quite a lot you can get away with without even raising eyebrows as long as you don't flaunt it online.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 3 at 2017 3:44 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 15:44:58 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner This looks like an issue with hard ass opinions on both sides of the augment. I really never though about it E-4 and below a regulation GI haircut. In the Combat it was OK to shave your head and if deploying to Vietnam you were allowed to get a Mohawk, that was the options. Of course now with females in the ranks makeup and hairstyle are cultural issues with the women in uniform. Also the Military is disregarding the harmonic pressure on young women during the prime reproductive part of their life. Basic reproductive biology. I would think that by now some common sense might have creeped into the chain of command, by just by the question obviously not. Regulations for female hair style cannot be in the same vain as males regulations. It think must be a limit to radical stylistic hair dues that reflect some cultural, political or social statement that has no place in a mixed community like the military. I do but I think the policy on hairstyles should be determined by the job the female has. in But that issue should be decided on a case by case basis. Maneuver Units where the female is in the field and do work on aircraft and vehicles I think the shorter more conservative style must be followed, but in officer work, around ranking officers and the general public latitude but the Regulations is called for, longer and to a limit more stylish hair alone with conservative application of make up. But fragrance still should be a none darter, NO.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2017 7:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 19:03:57 -0500

Hard enough being ethnic? The Military is probably one of the most ethnic and diverse organizations in the world. I'm not a big fan of that excuse.

Response by SGT Barb Belicia made Dec 7 at 2017 8:43 AM

SGT Barb Belicia — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 08:43:21 -0500

I find it interesting that those who responded to this comment do not have the privilege of having or managing ethnic hair and therefore pick a side instead of considering tthe issue that not all hair types are managed with a little gel or water. Not all hair types allows scalp to stay cool and comfortable. As an ethnic woman, there are many more challenges with ethnic hair and maintaining it acc ording to regulations is difficult, some may say bias. Instead of chastising attempt to undertstand the challenges. If a mosquito landed on your arm you swat it hard. If it landed on your testicles would you not investigate the best option for addressing the issue. Well this regulation is a mosquito on the balls.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Dec 18 at 2017 3:46 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 15:46:44 -0500

I don't know what finger waves are or whether they're authorized and don't care but I do know that life's not a picnic no matter what color you are or profession you are in. You're an E6 and people are giving trouble under your grade set them straight. If they are above that there are channels you can go through to get that done. At least there were in my day.

Response by PO3 David Greeley made Dec 25 at 2017 12:56 PM

PO3 David Greeley — Mon, 25 Dec 2017 12:56:18 -0500

I was in the service in the days when longer hairstyles were the norm, I naturally had "finger waves" in my hair and I had a hell of time getting my dixie cup to sit on my head properly. I can understand that women have issues conforming to hair standards but they are in the military and as long as they meet grooming standards and look professional that's the way they ought to be.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jan 1 at 2018 4:04 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 04:04:27 -0500

Okay, from what I remember during my time in the Army, AR 670-1 is what covers the wearing of the Army Uniform. This also includes hairstyles for males and females. The main concern was that a Soldiers hairstyle does not interfere with the proper wear of headgear such as a soft cap or beret. With that being said, the Soldier in this picture is wearing her hair in a manner that DOES NOT interfere with the proper wearing of headgear. Now, unless the regulation changed after I retired in 2008, I don't see what the problem is.

Response by CH (CPT) William (Bill) Conlon made Jan 9 at 2018 8:35 AM

CH (CPT) William (Bill) Conlon — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 08:35:27 -0500

I’m a bit old but what is a finger wave?

Response by CH (CPT) William (Bill) Conlon made Jan 9 at 2018 8:37 AM

CH (CPT) William (Bill) Conlon — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 08:37:15 -0500

Gunny, that’s the difference between the the CORPS and the Army! PRIDE FOR THE MOST PART!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2018 8:37 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 08:37:49 -0500

Hair styles come and go. Let them wear them as long as it's neat and presentably. Or establish new policies with limitations for/of wearing them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2018 9:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 21:58:18 -0500

Ugh I hate seeing shit like this.... EITHER ENFORCE IT ALL or stop. I had a chief warrant officer say something to me bc i had a pink hair tie....i was in a bind and just had it there til I could get one from a friend and replace it.... but all while she's saying this she had her hair braided like a headband... Like her bangs braided into it which is super out of reg.... something was said lol but still I've noticed the higher the rank the more they try well not try they DO get away with when it comes to regs and I'm my opinion if you're going to correct someone esp for something "questionable" you're
shit better be pristine, or don't say shit. Also I don't think the regs would be so ignorant sounding if ppl would just use common sense. The pics they released of male hair cuts that don't meet reg where epic LMAO... that reverse horse shoe looking thing.... Who in the FFFF would even do that to their hair? On another note other branches of service are allowed to make them selves look better in uniform...i remember being at ait like literally forver ago and thinking they're uniforms and everything are cut better like they actually have "female cut" uniforms....to us it's just like we are expected to manly. Which I'm getting off topic we are all soldiers sometimes a woman wants to look like a damn woman. I think if we had female cut clothes and where allowed the make up and earrings other branches are they wouldnt buck the system with hair so much...also high ranking ppl like another example a SFC with super long hot pink acrylic nails.... how and why do you expect junior enlisted to comply when examples being set aren't right?

Response by SGT Jamarl Jones made Mar 9 at 2018 10:20 PM

SGT Jamarl Jones — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 22:20:22 -0500

Simple solution to her problem: Get rid of all standards that differentiate between men's hairstyles and women's hairstyles.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Apr 26 at 2018 2:08 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 02:08:14 -0400

substandard is substandard, some just can't help but pointing out the obvious.

Response by SGT Kenneth Stelly made Dec 4 at 2018 7:14 AM

SGT Kenneth Stelly — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 07:14:35 -0500

Are we talking about the Snowflake Army? I know we're not talking about my United States Army... Wanh

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 17 at 2019 3:23 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 15:23:49 -0400

All has been said, it is not authorized.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Jun 28 at 2020 9:55 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 21:55:37 -0400

This individual needs to be removed like cancer to the body I am glad to be retired because if a soldier came up to me with this B S I would have so much fun with it
Bring back the smoking lamp and other traditions that the whiny babies can’t handle And with that I think I will have a cigar

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Aug 22 at 2020 7:04 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Sat, 22 Aug 2020 07:04:59 -0400

It was real easy for the rest of us, right?