Posted on Sep 23, 2016
SPC Operations (S3)
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I'm normally a "full-steam ahead and d**n the torpedoes" guy.
Right now however I have just been placed as a Squad LDR in charge of what might be generously called the "Shi(r)t Birds." Every one of my squad is a proven PT Failure of at least three years, eligible for involuntary separation. My question is, should I put them out or not? Pros? Cons? Seven soldiers, four years of PT Failure...
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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SPC (Join to see) You have been handed a great opportunity to display your leadership skills. Talk to them individually and tell them that you are providing them the opportunity to succeed. Use your motivation skills to make this the best squad in the platoon. Keep us posted on your squad's success.
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SPC Operations (S3)
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Thank you for the positive outlook, it's not something I can realistically sustain for myself at present, hence - in part - the post.
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LTC John Mohor
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SPC Joe Capricci how's your motivation and initiative? I'd try one on one counselingn try and find out the underlying reason they're failing. If you don't have a major health reason then look into a remedial PT program. Even if the're wanting to get out remind them of their need to get a General of Honorable discharge for future employment opportunities. Nothing says you have to make it easy on them. Constant remedial methods additional workouts etc might actually help them pass the next test. Good luck working on developing your leadership skills. People can surprise you!
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SPC Operations (S3)
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Unfortunately, at least from my perspective the answer to both of those is "garbage." We're talking about jr. enlisted in the reserves who have been allowed to slide under the radar for 2/3rds of their contracts... I'm not inherently tolerant or anything being a pack a day smoker that runs 13 minute two miles but I'm encouraging and supportive as all h*ll and see zero results.
In fact when I attempted to enforce a previous counseling on one of these soldiers they straight up told me "no" dropping trou and showing their a** in a mass formation while 1st SGT was less than 10 feet away... that's... honestly two years ago regs not-withstanding I'd have cornered them in a conex and laid hands on them for that kind of BS while I was on active. Wall-to-wall counseling isn't my favorite thing but I've broken bones and blacked eyes before when I thought it might help. The fact that I know for certain it won't help here only adds to my dilemma.
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SPC Operations (S3)
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My current remedial PoA for all concerned is that I require a third party to sign off on a workout 5 days/week to be submitted to me next month since the closest of the soldiers in question is nearly 70 miles from my location.
I'm hoping to see dramatic improvements... If not I feel like I might have to recommend administrative action IAW 625-200.
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MSG Pat Colby
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As a SPC, you cannot "put someone out". Discuss your options with your PLT SGT and 1SG. IF 7 of people in your charge truly do have 4 years of PT failures, you have been placed in a no win situation because the COC hasn't done their job.
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SPC Operations (S3)
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Thanks for your quick response. I realize I can't put someone back on the block in terms of signing off but I'm the counseling authority for these soldiers and have the tacit support of my command. So a supported, event oriented counseling with my signature is the last word on the subject in this case.
More importantly they're all in direct violation of AR 635-200, all I have to do is sign the 4856 with a PoA of "separation IAW AR 635-200" and a recommendation as to what character their separation should assume. If I put pen to paper there is no possible outcome other than complete support from current command.
This situation is certainly embarrassing, and we (myself and Command/Chain of Responsibility) have discussed that, the result was that I was given the final say in the matter and that's why I want serious input. Would you kick a soldier with a four year record of failure to meet standards to the curb? Recognizing that the situation is not one you created or enabled, or would you implement some alternate solution (normally what I would do, but am unable to figure out how to do in the reserves) to ensure compliance IAW FM 21-20?
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MSG Pat Colby
MSG Pat Colby
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SPC (Join to see) - Actually, yes I would kick a 4 year failure to the curb. Personally, I never let it get that far. I was an AGR in the Reserves. I did the Police Call of slugs after the Reservists went home. I was ALL up in the face of the S-1 to do everything humanly possible to get the shitheads away from those that actually perform. Unlike Active Duty, APFT failures in the Reserves is not something any Leader can personally fix other than providing basically meaningless training programs. You simply do not have the power to physically force someone to work out between Drills. AR 350-1 sez (or said when I was in) that if only 1 Unit Record APFT was scheduled a year, a minimum of 8 months must separate tests. You can however give diagnostic APFT's. Give them every month until the fuckers get pissed and "U" out or get the shown the door. Record the scores on a separate 705 and use the results as your yardstick to beat up the S-1 as you initiate and follow up on their out-processing.

Good Luck, Brother. You're gonna need it.
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SPC Operations (S3)
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Thanks, I really appreciate the sympathetic ear. 635-200 is the most current applicable, it technically says that (as long as the records support me) I can put someone straight out as an "other than honorable" if they fail two PT tests in a 12 month period even in the reserves with nothing other than two or more 4856's that mention 635-200 somewhere. I've got that in spades.
The big issue that blew this crap up was one failure in particular, I told them all when I assumed responsibility that they'd be getting a "broadly" clean slate but one derp-shi(r)t decided to show his ass in BTN formation to the point where out BTN XO is asking me if my counseling packet is "solid enough to demote him" then straight up stepped off the track during a diagnostic after only three laps... I mean... COME ON! Right? What am I gonna tell the BTN XO in that case?
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MSG Pat Colby
MSG Pat Colby
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Vaya con Dios, Adios, Aloha, GTFO, Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

There has to be documentation prior to your assuming the Squad. Maybe you were placed in this position to spend 7 hours a drill to do paperwork and counseling to exit them. On the bright side, once you have a template for the sit-down, all you gotta do is change the specifics and Administrative Data to the case.

If they make no improvement or just fucking quit, start taking Rank away.
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