Should a Chapter be initiated on a Soldier who claims Suicidal Ideations the day before the unit flys out of country?

2022-08-27T07:18:04-04:00

Just trying to get everyone’s opinion. But recently went on a Europe Rotation and had several soldiers in the battalion fall of the manifest because they claimed suicidal ideations the day before the flight. This was 7 months ago and when the battalion came back many of those Soldiers were just hanging out on rear d. None have had any sort of chapter initiated. Any thoughts on what should happen?

Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 27 at 2022 7:20 AM

2022-08-27T07:20:54-04:00

7 months of mandatory daily psychiatric counseling. Restricted to base because they may be a danger to themselves if out in the community (until a mental determination is made of course).

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Aug 27 at 2022 8:02 AM

2022-08-27T08:02:50-04:00

This person definitely needs an evaluation. As a former commander, I would have initiated that as soon as those persons said what they did. So either they need treatment or discharge.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2022 10:13 AM

2022-08-27T10:13:48-04:00

Chaptering Soldiers for any reason could take months, especially for mental health. Medical separations take even longer. There are multiple steps that have to occure with medical assessments and usually 6 months treatment (to try and rehabilitate) before kicking out a Soldier. Just because you saw them "hanging out" when you got home does not mean they aren't in the process of separation or rehabilitation.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2022 10:24 AM

2022-08-27T10:24:14-04:00

Sooo....obviously suicidal ideation statements should not be taken lightly, however.....my eyebrow raises because multiple soldiers state this the day before? That's got hinky written all over it.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Aug 27 at 2022 10:28 AM

2022-08-27T10:28:13-04:00

I would think that a unit would not leave its best and brightest on a rear detachment. Mostly oddballs and screwups. So there may not have been anyone with either the authority or smarts to chapter. Their purpose is to look after the company area, security, beautification, etc. Not a lot of smarts to cut grass, paint rocks, etc

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2022 4:41 PM

2022-08-27T16:41:14-04:00

Usually they end up in a MEB with a separation into the TDRL. They think they've made it, but five years later they get reevaluated and kicked off of disability.

I saw the same thing happen in my last NTC rotation. The day we arrived we already had people sending texts to their spouses threatening suicide. We had so many suicide threats that the EBH people had two or three vehicles running back and forth to the inpatient clinics every day. In that one month we probably had between 30 and 50 people just within the Brigade. There were an equal amount of people with red cross messages from spouses and family members saying they were going to kill themselves, or some uncle had a terminal disease (for the last two years and not expected to die soon).

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 27 at 2022 11:10 PM

2022-08-27T23:10:47-04:00

What should happen is treatment and if it is indeed a real issue they would go to a med board. If they get processed and deemed unfit they would be retired and put on TDRL. They would be re-evaluated 5 years later and a lot of times they get downgraded if the issue was short term.

If the individal is found to be fraudulent in their claims there may be some UCMJ action but expecting a chapter may not be realistic depending on what all transpired.

If there were multiple folks all claiming mental health issues and suicidal ideations are the same time there should be an investigation. Either the command has issues or there are a bunch of slackers that need to be hemmed up

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 28 at 2022 6:28 AM

2022-08-28T06:28:53-04:00

The leaders should have a meeting with those soldiers and have a critical conversation tegarding expectations as a member of the organization.
required for success in this unit

Response by SPC Gary C. made Aug 28 at 2022 7:29 AM

2022-08-28T07:29:38-04:00

Whoa wait a second here, who wouldn't want to see some of Europe on Uncle's dime ?
I spent two years in Germany, and when I got back to the world if my new unit got orders to go over I would have been saying "Put me on the quartering party!!", I would have been more than happy to put up tents for 10-12 hours a day to get back over.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 28 at 2022 8:34 AM

2022-08-28T08:34:04-04:00

It sounds hinky. And it is highly likely at least one is malingering, but......

1) Suicide is contagious. (Physchologically, not physiologically.) There is no reason to believe suicidal thoughts can not be, as well.

2) Even if one - or MOST - of these Soldiers are malingering, you have to assume they are not u til you get proof otherwise. Trying to prosecute - or chapter - a Soldier based on malingering when they actually ARE suicidal is a good way to tip them over the edge.

3) If they are, indeed, suicidal, then treatment is the correct answer. They should be in treatment they entire time of deployment.

After about 2-3 months of treatment,, clinicians should be able to tell the "fakers," and discharge them from treatment. Then it can go to the CoC to make determinations for punishment. I have seen this kick back and forth from company through BN to BDE and BDE legal for as much as 3 months while packets are refined and tightened up. For those who are not faking, after 6 months of treatment - or right around the time you guys got back - clinicians should be able to start making recommendations for retention or medical discharge. And THEN the paperwork starts.

No, the automatic assumption should not be chapter. But it should be an option on the table. And because these things are touchy, and because they are hard to verify, there is PROBABLY a lot going on behind the scenes that you are not seeing.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 28 at 2022 5:32 PM

2022-08-28T17:32:00-04:00

I may be wrong, but I think the Center of Gravity for those soldiers is what the mental health and their PCMs say. The PCM should make the determination the appropriate administrative and medical actions, like can the soldier fulfill MOS obligations and fit or unfit for duty. They need to assess the soldiers to see if they need treatment or are faking it. If they need treatment, then they should get it. I am making the assumption that the army medical community wants to heal the soldiers the best they could before soldiers are separated via MEBs. I suggest that you contact a PEBLO for them to paint the picture of the process for you. I don't know anything about the fakers, so I will not open my mouth.

Response by SSG Dale London made Aug 28 at 2022 9:33 PM

2022-08-28T21:33:45-04:00

When I was serving as a chaplain in the British Army, suicidal ideation was a fast-track ticket out. It is worth noting that a soldier in the British army can quit by giving 1 year's notice. Regarding self-harm and suicidal ideation, they didn't mess around. If a soldier said anything like, "Gee Sarge, I think I'll top myself!" paperwork to separate them would start that day and they'd be on the street within a week. The soldier in question would not be given the opportunity to recant and would be barred from ever serving in the UK military again -- administrative discharge for the good of the service.
The only time this would take longer would be if the person had actually tried to commit suicide. They would be hopsitalized until they were no longer considered a danger to themselves and then -- out!