Should a former soldier have the rite to down the military about how his term of service was?

2013-09-28T20:34:43-04:00

As a retired soldier, I feel that if you felt the Military was so bad why didn't you as a person get out sooner. Those of us that served our country proudly, would gladly say with respect and honor that all we did was for the USA.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 30 at 2013 3:08 PM

2013-09-30T15:08:29-04:00

I'm not sure how you can reasonably expect a servicemember to just "get out sooner". A contract expires when it expires, it's not like the individual can just arbitrarily leave.

Response by CPT Brian Hughes made Oct 1 at 2013 10:54 AM

2013-10-01T10:54:36-04:00

Timothy, I do agree that it doesn't make sense to speak badly about the military just because it is an imperfect organization. There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the military like any organization, but these criticisms should be balanced by an appreciation for how noble and challenging the goals of the military really are.

(Plus, if you're overly vocal about some of the difficulties you faced in your past jobs, aren't you indirectly hurting your own reputation?)

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 1 at 2013 11:30 AM

2013-10-01T11:30:02-04:00

Timothy, my interpretation of the question you posed is: does a veteran have the right to do this vs. should they do it and how. As I'm sure you know, an individual's free speech, etc. is protected by law, provided it does not violate certain criteria. Now on to the more pressing issue of whether a veteran should bash the military (without trying to be constructive) after they leave -- my personal opinion is no. I don't like seeing this happen, and a veteran sitting back and criticizing his old unit or old leaders -- when it's just for the sake of being critical -- often doesn't make anything better.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2013 9:27 PM

2013-10-01T21:27:28-04:00

What is your response? I agree, if it was such a "downer" then perhaps you should have goten out at the first chance. On another note, if you are going to post, then perhaps you should check how you spell things. the word is "right" not rite. A rite is something like a practice in a religion. The "right" you are using is such as your rights as an American Citizen. You have certain "rights" as a civilian that are not granted to you when you are serving in the military. For instance, you cannot represent the armed services in uniform at political rallies, nor make speeches against the U.S. Government. But once you leave the service, all applicable rights as an American Citizen, granted under the Constitution are yours to enjoy.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Oct 30 at 2013 1:57 PM

2013-10-30T13:57:15-04:00

CPL Sweat, It does not matter how one feels or what oppinions one have as long as that person does their job. There will be aspects of every job that a service member will not like or totally dispise, but as long as they do their job and not spread their negativity to other soldiers I do not see a problem.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2013 3:25 PM

2013-10-31T15:25:52-04:00

I find that the ex-Soldiers that bash the Army are most often those that had trouble with the Army values and/or Army lifestyle in the first place. You will rarely hear a Soldier that had a successful career (whether that career be one enlistment or 20+ years) "bash" the military. The junior CPT with a pattern of BCOM OERs or the permanent E-4 with multiple Art 15's has always somehow been wronged by their Chain-of-Command. And of course, they would argue that Soldiers with successful careers just got that way because they kissed @ss and were "yes" men or women. I think that attitude is just an extension of the growing attitude across our society that believes that success and happiness are somehow owed to them and not things that must be earned through hard work and dedication. My two-cents.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Oct 31 at 2013 4:18 PM

2013-10-31T16:18:27-04:00

One of the keys to success that I shared with each of my Company Commanders when I was a First Sergeant was this... Just because you can, allowed, or have the authority to do something, it doesn't mean you should. You should always thing about the second and third order effects of your decisions and actions.

While a Veteran or Retiree absolutely has the right to "talk down on our military," it doesn't necessarily mean that they should. They, of all people, should understand the effects that those kind of statements and actions have on those of us who are currently serving.

Response by SFC Matthew Isenbart made Oct 31 at 2013 5:48 PM

2013-10-31T17:48:33-04:00

Soldiers will always complain about something. Food, living conditions chain of command. There are many ways to express your dislike for something. I always told my Soldiers that we must first complete the mission in the safest manner possible, then afterwords let the leadership talk to the person who made the mission in the first place. Here is my point: Veterans have completed their mission, if they have a problem with certain things that happened while in the military there are constructive ways to complain or "Bash" the service. Should a veteran who has served any length of time totally bash or talk nothing but trash about the military, as if they had a totally bad time? I don't think so. If it were so bad why did they stay so long? That's my take.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2013 6:48 PM

2013-10-31T18:48:32-04:00

As you can see from all the other responses, this is something that hits many of us who have been in for a while. It does not matter if you are a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman, this subject comes up across all services. You will always have those who did not have, what they feel, was good tour. To complain about it is human. To go out publicly and denounce the military is your right as a civilian, but like everyone here agrees on, not the right thing to do. If you know someone like this, help them. It may just be that they feel forgotten for the time they gave to this country. I personally live next door to a former Marine that was like this. I have found that talking to them and finding resources for them that they did not know about can really help turn that opinion around in some cases.<br>

Response by SGT James Guy made Oct 31 at 2013 8:00 PM

2013-10-31T20:00:45-04:00

Truthfully, if anyone has earned the right to complain and criticize the Army/military it is retirees/veterans is it not? I personally have a few gripes about the Army (Mainly USAREC) and vocalize them whenever I am asked. These complaints however are usually stated in a constructive manner with views as to why these issues occurred and ways that could potentially fix them. The thing I would ask most to consider is that the majority of non-retiree veterans are getting out after a few years of service, coming to a civilian sector that dismisses our training, patronizes our leadership and shuns our ability to work in/with and develop a cohesive team. They face a VA system that has been overburdened since the beginning of this war and does not have the means or man power to keep up with the claims and issues. They face a populace that either shuns them out of fear of PTSD or treats them with a form of mild negligence combined with a false reverence for what they did. Most of these guys/gals are getting out with expectations of a the least a chance of greatness and instead are finding less than mediocrity there to greet them.

Response by MAJ Derrick J. made Oct 31 at 2013 9:10 PM

2013-10-31T21:10:44-04:00

What does "bashing the military" mean?

In order to have a meaningful discussion, that must be defined and recognition of the right to speak one's mind freely must be injected into the conversation. The question on its face seems to indicate a subsurface inclination towards curtailing people's free speech rights....

Just sayin'

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2013 9:40 PM

2013-10-31T21:40:26-04:00

CPL,

Here's my thoughts on this. First and foremost, your enlistment/career is what you make it. You can't blame your leaders for an unsuccessful term. Though I know I have a long way to go professionally, I have been in almost 11 years, and have experienced alot. For instance, back in 2005, I received a FG Article 15. At the time, I was angry and hated my chain of command and NCO support channel because of it. But, I owned up to it, and was still resiliant afterward. As I continued to "grow" as a soldier, I began to appreciate them because they showed me what it was like to be a true leader. In fact, my Team Leader at the time, I absolutely could NOT stand. But a few years down the road, before he passed away, I saw him again and was able to thank him for being such an outstanding leader. I am the NCO that I am now, because of him. The moral of the story is like I said in the beginning. It is what you make it. Don't judge other personnel or units because of what one soldier says. Because where there's one disgruntled service member, there are hundreds more that can prove him otherwise.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 11 at 2014 12:35 PM

2014-04-11T12:35:14-04:00

Do they have the right? Absolutely. 100%. That's what free speech means. Should they? Doesn't matter.

We wear our uniforms to serve and protect the United States Constitution, the First Amendment is paramount and one of our widest guarantees to speech, religion, press, and petition (Redress of grievances). We all swore to it whether we believe in this type of speech or not. I think the old quote goes, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight and die to protect your right to say it." That about sums it up for me.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2014 12:42 AM

2014-09-20T00:42:20-04:00

I would say absolutely they should be allowed to voice their experiences good and bad. In some respect the veterans are our only voice to the public. Over the years they have been able to affect great changes in the quality of life of everyone who wears and will wear a uniform.

I believe their comments should be substantive and be truthful. Obviously the military is not for everyone. There are people in the service on either side that do not fit. Because of this, they were jaded the entire time. If its just complaining for the sake of complaining than that will be noticeable.

But there are times when there may have been a legitimate issue with a unit having a leadership problem at all levels that the person may have tried the appropriate avenues to resolve but couldn't. I would hope they would continue to speak up so that issue can be brought to light and the people involved are dealt with appropriately. If this does not happen then we will be a military where bad leaders may be able to continue without impunity and go on to be leaders in higher positions making the problems broader and worse.

A bad squadron commander if allowed to continue may become a bad group commander, then a bad wing commander and then eventually be a general. Is this the type of person that we want to be rewarded for enhancing their careers stomping on the heads of their units? I would hope all agree the answer is no. I feel the veterans being able to speak out without retribution can help. Otherwise we end up with Lt Gen Pat O'Reily the former commander that was removed from the Missile Defense Agency.

Response by PO3 Dan Wagoner made Nov 15 at 2021 9:51 PM

2021-11-15T21:51:27-05:00

Very good point, if the military is such a crap heap that you cant handle it, then feel free to exit the way you came in... people often ask me about joining and if ld join again if allowed, l proudly say, where do l sign? So for someone to have their skivies to far up their rear, please do us a favor and get out so people who want to be here will have the chance to do so