Should a lower ranking Warrant Officer salute a higher ranking Warrant Officer?

2015-11-10T06:51:59-05:00

From a Command Chief Warrant Officer: While standing with the Division CG, DCG, DCSM, and some of the brigade commanders and CSMs, a Chief Warrant Officer Two walked by and cheerfully greeted me by saying, “What’s up,<First name>?” I received a few perplexing looks from the senior officers and NCOs present. After the event, a CSM asked me if that was appropriate.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Nov 10 at 2015 7:00 AM

2015-11-10T07:00:17-05:00

Yes, it is part of the customs and courtesies given to the senior person.

The junior Warrant Officer evidently lost his/her bearing and situational awareness or wanted to be one of the "cool guys". Regardless, I suggest the WOPA get this fixed as to avoid losing credibility (public exhibition of lack of professionalism), especially in front of the Division Command team.

While this might be acceptable in an informal setting as unofficial accepted behavior however, when in performance of duties and in an official capacity, you want to represent yourself and your unit professionally. Easy fix, make the correction and move on. My first thought was, of course, should a 2LT salute a 1LT (thanks CPT Private RallyPoint Member!). Great topic CW4 Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 7:12 AM

2015-11-10T07:12:13-05:00

I'm throwing the BS flag on this story. No self respecting W2 of ANY component would ignore two General Officers......this story is not credible.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 9:25 AM

2015-11-10T09:25:22-05:00

I think this boils down to situational awareness. Or lack of which can happen regardless of rank.

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member chief. You and that CW2 may have a great professional and personal relationship. Maybe you work closely where being nit picky about C&C only gets in the way. That said it's his and your responsibility to pick them back up when outside eyes are on you. I would say lower and higher ranks included.
Behind the working closed doors. It'd have to be followed.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Nov 10 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-11-10T12:05:36-05:00

In my day, which is some time past, Warrant Officers did no salute one another - being a professional solider permitted the recognition and pride of the Corps. Now, in this today's 'cohort' what ever the hell that is, I presume that the commissioned officers habit of 2LTs saluting 1LTs would be expected. Salute the CG, DCG and other O6's - goodness yes, that bit smells a little like BS. Calling the other chief by his first name, you bet. Then again that was my day and my Corps....we all wore the same brass and Corp colors....now? Not at all.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 10:59 PM

2015-11-10T22:59:13-05:00

Let's just get rid of saluting altogether. Instead we can do some manner of connecting hands. High 5's for officers, 5 "down low" for NCOs and WO's can do a "fist bump" .

Response by LTC Chad Uhl made Nov 11 at 2015 1:19 AM

2015-11-11T01:19:15-05:00

Show me where any Army tradition calls for a "Command Chief Warrant Officer" and I might consider your ludicrous comment for a nano-second

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2016 12:43 PM

2016-03-10T12:43:30-05:00

yes, on the off chance that you can find two warrant officers in the same place at the same time, outside of the WO super secret hideout, the lower ranking one should salute the higher.

Response by CW4 John Karl T. made Apr 20 at 2016 12:57 PM

2016-04-20T12:57:00-04:00

During my 38+ years of service as a Warrant Officer, I never saw WOs salute each other. I can think of a few occasions when salutes between Warrants would be appropriate. When reporting to or passing a Warrant in command of your unit of assignment, i.e., detachment commander or Master of the ship. In a formation where reports are given, etc. But just passing not required, but there is never any harm in rendering the hand salute as a token of respect. I have saluted civilian first responders more than a few times.

Response by CW4 William (David) Craig made Apr 21 at 2016 9:14 AM

2016-04-21T09:14:03-04:00

Hard to believe that a CW2 would speak to anyone with "What's up". I certainly hope this isn't true. When I was a CW4 the CW2's referred to me as "big chief". The true is that we all worked together to get the mission accomplished which I am sure that the warrants in today Army do also.

Response by PVT Thad Lucken made Sep 16 at 2017 11:28 AM

2017-09-16T11:28:03-04:00

if you were a nobleman walking through a castle yard surrounded by knights with war hammers and broadswords. would you keep your visor down and walk past a king thinking no one would notice or care? i think not, because you'd probably be beheaded instantly. remembering where all of these customs come from might be a good idea sometime. what general would want a subordinate walking around with their head so far up their ass that they would think its ok to put so much importance on whats going on in their ego instead whats going on in front of them? what is this wo hiding? what makes him think he would get to? its the spirit of the law, not the letter..

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Sep 16 at 2017 11:50 AM

2017-09-16T11:50:18-04:00

my response is When in doubt whip it out. CSM Charles Hayden is spot on Courtesy costs nothing

Response by SPC Jeffrey Stone made Sep 16 at 2017 12:34 PM

2017-09-16T12:34:47-04:00

If they are not commissioned officers why should they expect A hand salute??? NCOs do not salute high-ranking NCOs.

Response by SFC Bob Chapman DEng made Sep 16 at 2017 3:30 PM

2017-09-16T15:30:35-04:00

WO2? That's the closest you can be to being in the Air Force and still being in the Army.. surprised he didn't have his hands in his pockets and was unable to salute..

Response by SFC Bob Chapman DEng made Sep 16 at 2017 3:33 PM

2017-09-16T15:33:27-04:00

What confused me while I was in.. WO candidate School.. they're supposed to be our technical experts.. if they are and we NEED then why put them through a silly hazing process to see if they deserve to be a W/O? How many incredibly smart technical people never made it, nor were ever beneficial to the Army because they didn't make it through the hazing that is WOCC?

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Sep 16 at 2017 4:00 PM

2017-09-16T16:00:14-04:00

I have read comments this is not a believable story. True or not, I believe that any officer of any rank will salute a higher ranking officer if they have true professionalism, courtesy and military bearing. Like the GEICO commercial, "It's what you do."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2017 4:23 PM

2017-09-16T16:23:03-04:00

I have spoken to many warrants in the 915A MOS, and almost all of them have saluted their senior when in the company of non-warrants, e.g. Enlisted, and commissioned officers.

I had a Warrant whose wife was a CW3 and he was a CW2, he called her chief, ma'am, saluted her when she came to the motor pool. It was respect and business in the open.

That being said, when WO1s, CW2s, and even battalion or brigade level CW3s would get together in their Warrant only huddles, there were no salutes, it was very personal and friendly

Response by SPC Clint Miller made Sep 16 at 2017 6:24 PM

2017-09-16T18:24:15-04:00

I have never seen 2 Warrants in the same location in my life. What in the hell are they doing being seen during daylight?

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Sep 16 at 2017 9:52 PM

2017-09-16T21:52:16-04:00

The second option on the voting doesn't make sense because, although a higher ranking officer may call me by my first name I sure as shit am not gonna go up to a field grade and say what's up Frank.

Response by PFC Cedric Powell made Sep 16 at 2017 10:21 PM

2017-09-16T22:21:35-04:00

Response by SSgt David Marks made Sep 17 at 2017 2:44 AM

2017-09-17T02:44:56-04:00

To my knowledge, yes.

Response by 1LT Tom Wilson made Sep 17 at 2017 11:11 AM

2017-09-17T11:11:38-04:00

The thing I miss the most about the Army is saluting. If you don't want to salute, get a job at Walmart.

Response by CPT Nicholas D. made Sep 19 at 2017 6:32 AM

2017-09-19T06:32:53-04:00

This is pretty situationally dependent. As a Warrant, I would never salute a CCWO standing with GO's... I'd salute the General. But having spent 8 1/2 years WO1 - CW3, there is an etiquette between Warrants that does not exist in other hierarchy. Yes, it's different. Different doesn't mean bad.

Each WO branch has different customs. Tech Warrants tend to have more formality between them. Aviation (and SF) Warrants by virtue of their profession embrace more familiarity.

Unless I was on Fort Rucker enrolled in a course where my 1059 could be held hostage by a differing opinion, I generally did not salute fellow Warrants. Senior Warrants that I did not know would be addressed by their ranks and or "sir/ma'am" until the bona fides were exchanged which permitted more casual address. With that said, as a CW3, I would never expect a WO1 to speak to me disrespectfully. I am OK with "Nick" and no salute, but Warrant Officers are professionals and still need to treat each other with respect.

I saw a some mid Warrants appointed the Jr Warrant Fridge duty on deployment . All good. Someone has to do it. But they would address (Dave) as Fridge Bitch and it started happening in front of enlisted crew chiefs. The first time I heard an E5 refer to our colleague as that, I lost my skull. Completely unacceptable.

The reason the Aviation, Special Forces (Company and below), and most Warrant Officers are notorious for "first names" is their communities breed a close team dynamic. Familiarity is not "contempt" but I would say Familiarity is fraternity. That's ok. I don't expect those outside the communities to have the same opinion... but the catch is that familiarity should encourage a higher demand for professionalism.

I don't have that courtesy anymore. Although I gravitate towards the cohesion of the cohort, some my best Warrant friends still insist on addressing me as "Sir" while in uniform after I took a Direct Comission. It was awkward at first, but as the years go by, I am realizing that they are only doing what Warrants do... express their professionalism.

Bottom line: The no salute and first name thing is a Warrant Officer thing. It's Ok that it's different. But Respect is also a Warrant Officer thing in addition to Situalional Awareness. When in doubt, salute the General.

Response by SPC(P) Mark Newman made Dec 1 at 2017 5:54 PM

2017-12-01T17:54:08-05:00

I will say this: On the Gulf War Era BDUs for US-A, unless you know someone, it's tough to walk out of the PX and identify how many pips are on a fast approaching silver bar.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Dec 1 at 2017 9:18 PM

2017-12-01T21:18:46-05:00

The CW2 should have saluted the CW4 or anyone outranking him. When I was on active duty it was often custom for me to salute other non-coms--out of respect. That tradition goes back to the Knights of the RoundTable.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2017 7:39 AM

2017-12-02T07:39:59-05:00

According to Regulations, all junior personnel are to salute senior officers (W-2 to W-3, O1 to O2, etc). It shouldnt matter whether they are 1 paygrade are 5 paygrades ahead of you. Now, in all reality, does it happen all the time? No it does not (specifically if there is only 1 paygrade difference in the junior officer perspective).

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 2 at 2017 11:01 AM

2017-12-02T11:01:40-05:00

This screams for immediate correction of the CWO-2 who failed to salute General Officers. Instant correction by anybody in the group would be appropriate. The General might be magnanimous and ignore the problem letting lower ranking officers take care of it. You can bet your pay check the closest O-6 would call the CWO-2's errant ways to his attention.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2018 7:37 AM

2018-05-24T07:37:47-04:00

I question this story. I find it hard to believe a CW2 wouldn't salute the CG let along a DCG with a slew of brigade commanders. However, if it happened, can't you use your 4 dots like a sword Chief and cut that CW2 down to size

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2018 7:07 AM

2018-08-17T07:07:15-04:00

I have to agree with the CSM. It’s odd when I hear a CW3 call a CW5 by thier first name or simply say “Okay man”. We don’t allow that in the Officer Corps. I can friendly with a Major or LTC but I always give them the courtesy of addressing them as Sir or by thier Rank. It ensures that I will always acknowledge thier seniority and if I work for them, execute thier orders. Why do you think it’s different Chief? Is it a cultural thing that’s been around for 20-30 years?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2018 11:48 AM

2018-12-02T11:48:56-05:00

Warrant Officer Corps has a different culture within. Respect it. They initiate salutes to 2LT and up.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Mar 12 at 2019 2:51 PM

2019-03-12T14:51:25-04:00

Cant speak to the land services...but from the CG - when stationed on a large base afloat- when in dock we worked with the land bound folks to ready the ship and make repairs use of fabrication shops and auxillary departments. We became very familiar with the warrants and senion chiefs who ran those areas. When warrants of varying ranks were passing by - as is common amongst the sea farers traditions- they didnot salute one another nor did they act as formal as should maybe have been the case in view of much junior personnel. That said most of our senior NCOs and Warrants did not salute each other. However if there was an unfamiliar warrant it was very formal. But i still do not recall any warrant saluting another warrant outside of ceremony.

Response by CW3 George VanHoose made Dec 22 at 2019 11:16 AM

2019-12-22T11:16:14-05:00

He (the junior WO) should have saluted the ranking member of the group, what is the problem? WO to CWO to CWO salutes are like hand shakes.

Response by PO1 Richard Cormier made Feb 8 at 2020 1:55 PM

2020-02-08T13:55:33-05:00

I still loved it when at a "Dog and Pony" in Korea, the Unit was escorting a "One Star" around and some of the Maintenance Crews and Civilian Contractors were on the side. After greeting everyone and walking over to the plane, the one star walked over, said Hi Rick, and shook my hand. The look on the 1st SGT was "Priceless". The General, when he was younger, was one of the pilots on the planes I was the civilian maintainer for. I took great care in ensuring the personnel as well as the equipment were doing good. Some people remember the people that take care of them.

Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 13 at 2020 10:39 PM

2020-03-13T22:39:27-04:00

I won't pick one of the two choices as I do not know the regulation and I don't remember ever hearing commissioned officers, of different ranks call each other by their first name. What I will say is that Warrant Officers were always the rogues of the officer corps. They were always Mister, to enlisted, and commissioned never seem to like being around them. The few times I saw more than one, they called each other by name.

Response by CW3 Lance Owens made Feb 2 at 2022 1:21 PM

2022-02-02T13:21:22-05:00

2nd Generation Warrant Officer and retired. Only place I ever saluted another Warrant was in TRADOC. Also, sounds a bit made up because I don't think any CW2, even the CG's pilot is going to ignore everyone just to say, what's up Brandon. Warrants used to be just two grades, Junior Grade and Senior Grade...now that you've got all these doodad dots y'all are wanting to walk around and do ritual dick beating. Then you wanted to go join your branches and not be part of the group elite. Keep on and they'll make 3rd LT's out of the lot of you. W5's and W4's out there stop pissing on my heritage. If you wanted to be saluted and have smoke blown up your butts, why didn't you just go RLO. It isn't a sign of disrespect when junior warrant feels he can call you by your first name, its a sign that the warrant probably trusts you. Late in my career I would ask senior warrants, if they wanted their Mr. and Salute when met, I didn't have time for them. More often than not they turned out to be assclowns.