Should a person be held accountable for remarks they made years ago before they took a specific job, by that job?

2017-09-14T23:02:43-04:00

I am asking because of a recent incident in my area. A police officer was hired in 2016 and has served the department without issue or complaint. His social postings are very bland and not offensive at all. Yet back in 2015 and 2013 he made two offensive posts of "jewish" jokes. Now there is a cry for his termination. He has not other issues or postings, and only these two were found by someone digging through his social media.

Should a person's employment be able to terminate him based on something that was said years before they were hired? What is any timeline would you consider a person to have "changed" or how many posts or comments would indicate a "problem" or pattern of conduct?

I am truly curious as I am not sure yet what to think of this. I see both the strict side of he said it, he should be fired side, and I also see it was years ago and should you hold him responsible for them now years later? What does my military community think?

http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170914/gpd-receives-complaint-against-hot-cop

GPD receives complaint against 'hot cop'

In Facebook posts captured and sent to The Sun, Officer Michael Hamill makes jokes about Jews and recommends "the Hitler way" to deal with

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 14 at 2017 11:16 PM

2017-09-14T23:16:44-04:00

SGT Chris Wagoner Great Question. I Know I've Said and Did some Horrendous Things as a Much Younger Man and Thank God there was No Social Media Around to Record them. I Do Believe People Grow Up and Hopefully Change for the Better.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Sep 14 at 2017 11:17 PM

2017-09-14T23:17:57-04:00

I am in complete disagreement. It's one thing if you say something while on the job or while you are representing a specific company. But what you say in your personal life or even worse in the past should have no bearing on your employment record. Now take that with a grain of salt of course. If I go home and post on Facebook... "Fuck my boss. I hate my job. Fuck those guys". I can assume that my job will no longer be available to me the next day.

Freedom of speech is something we should all hold dear. It may be the most reprehensible speech in the world, but if we don't fight to protect it, then what happens when someone considers your speech offensive.

If this officer has been a stellar example of a cop and has had no issues, then it is ridiculous to punish someone based on something they might have said in passing. As service members, we have heard and said some of the most vile things in the world. But at the end of the day, we remain the utmost professionals because that's who we are as people.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 11:26 PM

2017-09-14T23:26:21-04:00

Response by CPL Beth Allsop made Sep 14 at 2017 11:29 PM

2017-09-14T23:29:57-04:00

I can only assume that the police department that hired this individual did not request access to their Facebook page or social media profiles prior to hirining them. And no. According to every HR situation I have ever been involved in they cannot terminate this person based upon a social media post prior to hiring said person unless it was s condition of employment. That said many states are "right to work" therefore they can have employment severed at anytime.

Assuming this person works for a government of some sort, they would most likely have to have cause and back-up to let them go.

If I were this person I would simply make all Facebook and social media posts private. If there is a situation that calls for s public profile then create a new one.

And that's my 2¢.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Sep 14 at 2017 11:48 PM

2017-09-14T23:48:32-04:00

For something years in the past & prior to their current employment? No. As long as it doesn't happen again, definitely not.

Response by Cpl Jim Canning made Sep 15 at 2017 7:08 AM

2017-09-15T07:08:41-04:00

We have something in this country that we all served to protect. Its called the 1st amendment and its found in our constitution. That amendment protects his freedom of speech.
His position should only be based on his performance and his ability in his position, and not on something he had a protected right to express years before.

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Sep 15 at 2017 8:47 AM

2017-09-15T08:47:45-04:00

I've got mixed opinions on this one, on one hand I'm all for freedom of speech and the people having a venue to have uncomfortable discussions and that does include jokes, often humor even dark humor can work as a tool for open discussion when other more civilised tools have failed.

Now on the other hand, I also think that people should be held accountable for their actions and that includes their words and I do expect that people should be savvy enough to know when and where to post what online. For instance here I am posting under my own name, I've send pics of some documentation to the admins here to join this site, this is not the place to post anything that I don't want to live down. If I want to post something edgy that could have repercussions, I would go to a place like youtube. I've had lots of great discussions there and have been introduced to viewpoints that I have spent literal months of my life researching.

But at the end of the day the question I'm asking is this: If he is not savvy enough to cover his own ass, is he the person I want to trust with a badge and a gun to protect the public interest?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2017 9:04 AM

2017-09-15T09:04:43-04:00

No, I don't think he should lose his job. I don't think it's any different than saying a couple of off color jokes at a party 2 years ago. I'm sure we've all told jokes or made comments that in hindsight we wish we hadn't. That is proof of us being human, not proof of us being inherently racist. But, we live in a new era and I'll count this as reason #1,025,325,697,845 why I'm not on social media like FB or Twitter. Everything we do online is online forever. And in this day in age it only takes one slip up seen by the right person to ruin your life forever.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Sep 15 at 2017 9:27 AM

2017-09-15T09:27:17-04:00

Why, you going into politics?

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Sep 15 at 2017 9:54 AM

2017-09-15T09:54:00-04:00

Absolutely not. If they decided to hold me accountable for embarrassing remarks I made as a hormone fueled teenager, who would still be working? People change, their opinions change. Is their anyone out there who could withstand strict scrutiny?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 15 at 2017 9:58 AM

2017-09-15T09:58:34-04:00

"Should a person be held accountable for remarks they made years ago before they took a specific job, by that job?"
Yes , No, Maybe

"I am asking because of a recent incident in my area. A police officer was hired in 2016 and has served the department without issue or complaint. His social postings are very bland and not offensive at all. Yet back in 2015 and 2013 he made two offensive posts of "jewish" jokes."

In that case Id say YES held responsible, though an inappropriate joke being passed on does not in my mind equal a grievance offense worthy of termination, though as the person is an adult now, and was an adult in 2013 & 2015 absolutely needs to be responsibly for the comments.

If the person involved was a young, immature, child or very young adult when comments were made and an adult now that shows remorse for early comments and increased maturity, then maybe....not a free pass, but certainly a possibility.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2017 10:06 AM

2017-09-15T10:06:51-04:00

Law enforcement professionals should represent their department and serve their community without prejudice, and I'm sure this officer has. But while he may not have meant to be, he has a history of being insensitive.

Every intolerant or racially insensitive person I have ever met was very polite, until they were around people who believed as they did. So he made some jokes not long ago, does he really feel that way, and does he feel that way still? Only he will ever know. In the meantime, the department has a situation they cannot control, and could potentially disrupt their operations in the future.

No one thought Mark Fuhrman was a racist, until they found audio of him using racial epithets to describe black people. It's one of the reasons the OJ trial tanked.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2017 10:18 AM

2017-09-15T10:18:20-04:00

The internet: where supposed anonymity lends itself to saying outrageous things in a quest to get likes (or upvotes).
Yet where it is recorded for posterity to remind you that before your puppy, baby, and what I'm eating for dinner pics, you were a hell-raising drunkard who chased skirts and said stupid stuff online.
You post your life for all to see, yet are stunned when down the road your own actions come back to haunt you.
Stupidity only breeds my contempt.

In this case, it is not like what he said was THAT long before taking the police officer gig. You would think he would have the self-awareness to do a little sanitizing of his online persona before getting into a public position.
However, I do not believe that "words" alone constitute grounds for firing or a permanent scarlet letter. The character of a person and what they do after making a mistake or saying something stupid counts far more in my book.

Who among us has never said something stupid or regrettable? The online pitchforks and torches crowd needs to get a life.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 15 at 2017 11:29 AM

2017-09-15T11:29:27-04:00

Companies don't fire people for what they say on social media. They fire them because of the potential negative aspect that can tarnish the company image. Sounds like the officer cleaned up his act knowing what the potential impact on the company image could be. There is some risk to an enforcement action with a Jewish purp that the defense lawyer will drag up in court. In reality it's a risk management thing. The reason there's such a double standard is how it plays out for the company image. I'm surprised ESPN is passive on the current one as their customer base (shrinking) is made up by a significant number of "deplorables", middle class white males, etc. who voted for Trump. So more leave by voting with their feet. More will DVR the stuff and zoom past commercials. There's so much sports out there that isn't ESPN, you won't miss much. You'll quickly learn that you can enjoy sports just as much by not taking your daily talking heads drug fix. BTW most people don't talk about the employer/employee contract. Typically in many firms you sign an employment agreement that has things you agree to abide to. In media for sure, there's a "morality clause". That has to do with not doing things that tarnish the company image. You agreed to abide and by not doing so, you're in breach of your contract. You have no constitutional "free speech" rights protection under administrative procedures. My advice to anyone in any job is to avoid grandstanding political, religious, etc. commentary in social media as it can come back to haunt you. Save it for private banter on the front porch over cigars and cognac. If a term of employment is access to your FB pages and you want the job, go through it and edit anything out prior to granting access. If you're so hard up on the free speech thing, you can walk away from that offer. I will tell you, hunger, safety, etc. are strong motivators that tend to overcome whatever hot air there is in social media.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Sep 15 at 2017 1:03 PM

2017-09-15T13:03:34-04:00

For crying out loud if I was called for every little joke or wise crack I made in my younger days I would be fired immediately from my job.........and I own my own business! I feel there may be some other reason they want to give this guy the boot and they are looking for reasons otherwise why go back so far to find a reason? I thought the Witch Hunts were over in Salem? Apparently they were just moved to Gainesville. I don't like what he said but I have much thicker skin than the City Council does in Gainesville apparently.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Sep 15 at 2017 2:46 PM

2017-09-15T14:46:33-04:00

America is like a crazy girlfriend: anything you do can and will be used against you YEARS after you did it. Personally, I'd lose (((facebook))). You're just asking for Big Brother to look into your business if you have one.