Should a potential soldier be able to enlist as SPC rank because of a college degree?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:16:22 -0500

More and more enlistees are doing so after college these days. With the Advanced Enlistment Program, qualified enlistees can come in at E-3 and E-4 paygrade.

For many MOS's, TIG will be met by the time these Specialists get to their first unit. A little over two years later and they may be boarded for SGT? Is that enough time to develop within the army and unit culture? Does it matter if the 36 months TIS all occurs as a SPC, instead of doing time as a private?

I am just curious what others think.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:09 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:09:22 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member, I think your question (proposal?) is a good one. I would say that a four-year degree does warrant starting out as a Specialist. And the concern that the individual won't be ready for SGT when he/she is eligible will be answered by the individual's leaders, the chain of command, and the promotion recommendation and board process.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 6 at 2014 2:23 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:23:59 -0500

Yes. but it still may take some time for the individual to get to NCO school. Education is not the same as leadership but I do believe it has some value. Just curious what about masters or Phd as commissioned much like JAG and MD's.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:25:58 -0500

Just want to point out that Soldiers don't enlist!

Civilians do.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Nov 6 at 2014 2:27 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:27:30 -0500

When I joined up, they told me I would be an E-4 when I finished basic because I had a college degree and I was an Eagle Scout.

I think the degree should only apply if it is in an applicable field, but the Eagle Scout is something I could see applying across the board.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 6 at 2014 2:34 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:34:39 -0500

I think if they enter the military with a college degree, they have the life experience to award them SPC. It has been working a LONG time and the wheels still seem to be on?

Response by SGT Richard H. made Nov 6 at 2014 2:37 PM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:37:02 -0500

I think if a college degree qualifies you to go to OCS and commission as a 2LT, why not a SPC? Maybe have some form of "next level" AIT, or a reduced form of WLC...sort of along the same lines as RIP/ROP for the Ranger BNs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 3:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:25:48 -0500

I got one better for you. Soldier comes in as a SPC, after basic they come here to DLI to study a cat 4 language for 18 months, go to GFAB for MOS training and when they show up to their first unit, they can be boarded for SGT with no MOS or leadership experience

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 8:08 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:08:18 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member,

A 2nd Lieutenant may come in with a degree and have even less military training than the SPC (E-4) in your example, yet he may immediately become a Platoon Leader. Therefore, I wouldn't have any concerns about a Soldier who comes in as a Specialist (E-4) and is boarded for Sergeant within 2 years... he can't do nearly as much damage as that 2LT.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Nov 25 at 2014 8:12 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:12:44 -0500

E3 is the highest the AF will give you even if you have a Masters Degree.

Response by SSG Leonard J W. made Nov 25 at 2014 10:20 PM

SSG Leonard J W. — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:20:56 -0500

SSG Squires,
This was a good question. In my opinion, a SPC is not that different from a private. I came in the Army as a PV2 ('Mosquito Wings' was what the rank was called then). However, I didn't notice a significant difference in treatment from E2-E4. Most people still got my attention with just "Walker", rather than "Specialist Walker." I outranked some of my coworkers, but we were always treated equally and as peers. It was sometimes frustrating because I didn't feel senior even though I knew I was. The first significant change was when I pinned Corporal. Everyone's treatment and approach was totally different, because I had become a leader.

On another note: a college graduate is someone that can usually be trusted. They have demonstrated that they are capable of committing to the pursuit of something worthwhile - perhaps even a career, as most people pursue following their college tenure. Many of them, if GPAs are considered, have also shown that they are also committed to the pursuit of excellence. They are also usually more mature, because some of the life experiences have commenced. Promoting someone of that caliber to just E4 is almost wrong in my opinion, but at least they will serve some junior enlisted time to "learn the ropes" prior to "teaching the ropes." This is my logic due to my experiences.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2014 10:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:25:16 -0500

That's what I did. I was also in a low density MOS in the Guard. I was a SPC for 9 years because there were no E-5 slots.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 3:14 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:14:22 -0500

I think that considering the NCOs' roles in choosing who goes to the board, it's not unfair to allow them to go that early if they're up to snuff. That being said, if they're incapable of performing the MOS tasks they should be doing at E1-E4 then they should be demoted to a rank that suits their abilities or not sent to a board to be promoted until they've proven they have the ability to perform at the next level. It is definitely strange seeing how little most brand new Soldiers know coming in straight out of high school. The assumption that a college graduate would know a bit more is not an unfair one so long as they do their best to catch up on not being privates. Here in Korea, Specialists are in short supply, but having someone who can keep track of the training room due to their academic background or be counted on not to let a tasking slip through the cracks would definitely be a boon... so long as they received the junior and senior NCO counseling and mentorship aimed at improving and strengthening their abilities.