Should a Soldier do push-ups to recover personal gear?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:20:28 -0400

I left personal property unsecured at my unit's armory. When I went back for it I was asked by our S-1 NCO if I was "ready to do some push-ups" to get it back. I told him, respectfully, that I would not because it's personal property. If it was my rifle, k-pot, rucksack, etc. I would have had no issue with corrective training. But I stood on principle that it was my property. I won't go into detail about what happened, just looking for opinions.

Update:

Ok. I feel like I need to provide more details because a lot of people are misreading or misinterpreting what happened here. I brought my personally owned Blu-Ray player to my National Guard drill weekend and hooked it up to the TV in our dayroom. Being in the National Guard, many of us crash at the armory for the weekend. We sleep on whatever real estate we can find, watch movies, play cards, cook/eat dinner, etc. in our off duty hours after final formation for the day. As such, having personal items in the armory such as civilian clothes, books, movies, etc. is common fare. I left the armory to go to our annual family picnic without said Blu-Ray player. When I returned, I was informed I would have to push to get it back.

A) At no point in this thread did I ever imply that the property in question was a weapon.

B) At no point in this thread did I ever imply that the property in question belonged to the Army.

C) At no point in this thread did I ever state that my property was in an area off limits to civilian belongings.

D) The event ended with the Troop XO (acting CO on this particular day) telling the E-7 that holding my personal property from me with conditions for its release was theft (bordering on felony range due to the combined value of the Blu-Ray player and movies) and that he would have to return it to me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 8:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:24:40 -0400

If it was an unsecured weapon, then maybe!

Response by SFC Richard Giles made Aug 9 at 2016 8:25 PM

SFC Richard Giles — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:25:28 -0400

If it was personal property it should've locked it up until you came back for it. Just my opinion.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Aug 9 at 2016 8:35 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:35:23 -0400

Do the push ups, lesson learned.
Bottom line you screwed up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 8:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:37:10 -0400

I can see both sides of this- it is your belongings and therefore your responsibility alone, but had that personal property gone missing, I'm sure you would have been upset, but would have no-one to blame as it was left unsecured. Coming from the S-1 NCO's perspective- yes you left a personal item out This time, but how do they know it wouldn't been a sensitive item next time? Eventually leaving items out or putting them away becomes like Muscle memory, like any routine we do. If it had gone missing, would you have blamed someone? I am sure a number of other things could be considered, but I would have just bit my tongue, done the push-ups and went about my business.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 8:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:45:29 -0400

I remember the days of AIT when a drill sergeant( yes, a drill sergeant) found unsecured money, you would get extra duty. In ncoes when we had real barracks, you would be counseled and removed from the distinguished leader running. The Army requires a lot of personal responsibility as much as professional, so, in my opinion, yes. Be corrective trained and learn your lesson.

Response by SFC John Hill made Aug 9 at 2016 8:59 PM

SFC John Hill — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 20:59:25 -0400

No, it was Government Property that you Hand Receipted for and are responsible for, to include Statement of Charges. The weapon is a different subject.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 9:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:43:54 -0400

Nope, the S-1 NCO was being a dick.
He did the right thing by securing your stuff until you could recover it. After that, well... let's just say the PSNCO better not do that within earshot of me.
If the personnel section had to do pushups for every time they lost paperwork, the S-1 would be the PT studs of the Army.

The update only confirms my original thinking on the issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 10:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 22:04:05 -0400

No I don't think you should have done push-ups to be honest, not for leaving your personal property, like you said about the cars being unlocked or even leaving your keys sitting around and you forget to grab them before you leave, and when he told you that you had to do push ups to get your gear back was wrong. So no you shouldn't do push-ups smh!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 10:19 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 22:19:55 -0400

Ehh, if that "personal property" was a firearm then yes. I would hope you can secure that properly. But no more than 5 reps and it would have to be verbalized in a calm, non-hazing voice with nobody watching, a medic ready to treat you, ice sheets near by, and after you are hydrated.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Aug 9 at 2016 10:32 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 22:32:50 -0400

Update:

After doing some research, the actions of this E-7 meet the requirements defining Wrongful Appropriation as outlined in Article 121 of the UCMJ.

AND NOW THERE IS MORE......SMH

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 10:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 22:42:22 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member A couple of questions come to mind:

1) Why do you have personal property in the armory? If it is not government property, it does not belong in there.

2) Who did your research for you? Did you actually talk with the SJA, the lawyer who is trained to determine what is required to meet this specific article of the UCMJ?

Not a question, but a thought. While the "push-ups" as corrective training doesn't fit the "crime" (for lack of better words here), I can see some sort of corrective training for the example you are leading as a NCO for leaving gear (personal or government) unsecured and in a location it has no business being in.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 12:14 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 00:14:28 -0400

A few push ups never hurt anyone. I would have just done them, cracked a couple jokes to sort out the tension, and been along with my day. Who cares if he was being a dick? I doubt it was personal, and most times it's better to just play along for the sake of cohesion. Just my two cents.

Response by SGT Randolph Carlton made Aug 10 at 2016 1:07 AM

SGT Randolph Carlton — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 01:07:46 -0400

PUSHUPS HELL NO, we are all human, but next time don't be less responsible...

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Aug 10 at 2016 1:51 AM

SSG Drew Cook — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 01:51:25 -0400

Silliness. I might mess with you a little bit depending on the situation, but push-ups is a jerk move by a jerk. Dude obviously had nothing better to do, which says a lot.

Response by PO1 Tony Holland made Aug 10 at 2016 2:06 AM

PO1 Tony Holland — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 02:06:48 -0400

What would USMC Sgt. Ermey say? Probably the same thing my company commander in boot camp did --- leaving unsecured items laying about is aiding and abetting thievery. Do your pushups.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 6:38 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 06:38:12 -0400

I know at one time this is what was expected in the Army. If you left property unsecured in someone else's office, and they outranked you there more than likely would be push ups involved. Today what you are describing is called being a dick, toxic leadership, or hazing take your pick. I do not think personally that a few push ups are a big deal, but then again it was the S1 NCO trying to get you to push, I wonder how many push ups they would be doing if they lose something? This is the problem with the traditional Army, do as I say not as I do leadership and why the rules of expectations have changed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 8:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 08:21:38 -0400

Who cares man. Accountability of your equipment means personnel and issued. It's push-ups, don't show your soft and don't want to do push-ups.

It's so crazy how people will do more work and research to keep their happy ass out of trouble, but when it comes time to do a class, or a task they are givin from their PSG this is what we here every time "excuse me SSG how do I do that" or "I have never done that before" if soldiers and even.

Another prime example of when you hear a SFC or MSG say, the Army is getting soft, and back in their day!!

Ranger Up, grab your pair, and take the time to do extra PT and get better

Rangers Lead The Way
No Bitch in my Blood

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 10 at 2016 8:33 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 08:33:57 -0400

Should they? No they SHOULd have some personal responsibility and secure thier own property..that said humans make mistakes.
If it was an isolated incident (not happening every week) if it did not take on a distracting life of its own (owner claimed it was stolen, CDRs investigation ensues, rooms tossed , then item "found" sitting under a table in the smoke break area) I'd likley take issue with that SM and help them increase thier level of personal responsibility. Say conducting a personal property inspection twice a day and announcing to the company all was present.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 8:42 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 08:42:31 -0400

Old school, new school...I don't think it matters. I'm 27 and have been in for 8 years. My understanding is that the military has a rank structure and operates on that. I don't think the E-7 was wrong in making you do push ups. We do it for everything else. If anything, they are helping to reinforce that you don't forget it. Say you forget your wallet next time, get 10 miles down the road, get pulled over, get a ticket and have to show up in court. If you had done push-ups for forgetting your stuff, you might not forget. But you wanna play Larry Birdman, attorney at law to get out of a few push-ups. Maybe extreme example but my point is, punishment ( for you PC people: corrective action) in that particular scenario is FOR YOUR OWN GOOD. That's why we do push-ups for anything. Exceptions being that you are targeted. Doesn't sound like you are. Do the push-ups, no one dies from doing push ups, and stop referencing UCMJ for such a minor thing. You are an NCO. I would expect you to do the same to your soldiers. New school, old school...doesn't matter. Setting standards does.

Response by SFC Shannon Ford made Aug 10 at 2016 9:24 AM

SFC Shannon Ford — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:24:21 -0400

The thought that you may want to keep in mind is that NCOs don't just teach you about military life. In this day and age basic life skills are part of the whole Soldier concept. Perhaps his idea is just to raise your awareness for your own belongings. Which in turn relates back to maintaining your gear, and many other things in your life. It's about basic discipline. You started it out with the statement that you left it unsecured. Just food for thought.

I would have done the same, asked for a small token amount of push-ups, and talked to you earnestly about your situational awareness and responsibility.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Aug 10 at 2016 5:32 PM

1SG Mike Case — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:32:53 -0400

I look at it like this, you are in the armory, during your drill time, so I see that is as on the clock for Uncle Sam. If, during basic training, you left your watch or toothbrush unsecured (which is your personal property), would it be simply given back or would the Drill Sergeant want to teach you a lesson about checking your area before leaving and securing your gear? No if this NCO went to your bunk and took it, then that is a different story but if you are in a habit of leaving High Value Items out, maybe a few pushups to remind you to secure your gear is a small price to pay.

Response by SGT Thomas Fisher made Aug 10 at 2016 10:17 PM

SGT Thomas Fisher — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:17:59 -0400

IMO it is no different than if someone leaves their car door unlocked at WalMart and has something stolen from it. Personal responsibility and if someone takes something from it and "secures" it for me, they are committing theft. It wasn't the NCOs property to secure, let alone worry about. If he wanted to do it just to be a nice guy, that is one thing. But to act like the owner OWES him something is just being a d*ck.

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made Aug 11 at 2016 4:11 AM

SGT Keith Boettcher — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 04:11:00 -0400

The problem with todays military is, to many young immature NCO's who were given rank and didn't really earn the strips. To much grab butt and games. Need to get back to basic and that is STRUCTURE and DISCIPLINE. Training the solider. You don't make an NCO drop especially in front of lower enlisted. Also, per memo and regs if you can not be told to drop. If you are the person tell you to do so must drop with you.
So, the answer to your question is Absolutely NO ! !

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 11 at 2016 9:18 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 09:18:05 -0400

Honestly, I don't know why the update was needed. This seemed pretty clear cut to me. They were withholding your personal property under penalty of PT. They were in the wrong plain and simple. I'm sitting behind my desk right now with my cap on the corner of my desk. If I leave to make a head call and someone takes my cap and says I can't get it back without some pushups, they'd be in the wrong. Granted, if we were on friendly terms, I might have done pushups because we all know brothers in arms like to mess with each other. But if we weren't on friendly terms, then they can go pound sand.

I agree with your 2nd point as well. If it was issued gear, corrective training is a given. But it wasn't, so they were in the wrong.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 12:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:38:09 -0400

So a personal DVD player was hooked up to a unit tv... The NCO secured it for you, since plenty of people probably have access to the day room. I see no issue with knocking out a few push-ups. You got a simple lesson in not leaving your stuff unsecured. How would you react if your gear had been stolen in the same situation?

Response by SGT Alejandro Sarandrea made Aug 11 at 2016 3:45 PM

SGT Alejandro Sarandrea — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:45:58 -0400

Legaling speaking, it's clear this a question of mislaid chattel. Under the facts you've provided, the issue is whether you returned in a reasonable time frame. Also relevant to the factual basis is whether you were the only person to leave anything in that area and if the S1 NCO had any particular authority over the armory area? If in fact, that individual was acting on the authority of the US Government, who is he legal owner of the Armory, he was within his rights to hold the mislaid chattel for the true owner (you); assuming you came back in a reasonable amount of time. Should you not have returned in a reasonable amount of time, he could have or should have turned the items into the MPs. He wouldn't have to notify you of this if he didn't know who's stuff it was. If you wouldn't have claimed it from the MPs, technically you would went from mislaid to abandonment. Having said all that;

Did the NCO ask you to prove your claim on the item? NO? So the NCO took you for your word in good faith and had no intention of claiming your items for himself or anyone else.

He acknowledged you as the true owner ( no felony or theft here).

Having held on to this item, and in presenting it to you upon request the NCO has proven he/she had no intention to deprive you of your property.

However, the NCO may have perceived any number of deffects in your skill set or values. For example, the NCO may have perceived your lack of respect for an area under his supervision by leaving your personal items in his/her professional space without passing along any type of notice or getting permission from a proper authority (not your buddy). Or he may have perceived that your actions demonstrated a lack of situational awareness--as you left high dollar items unattended in an area that is not your own and easily accessible to any number of people. I don't know what reasoning the NCO gave you, but I would of given you a hard time on the weight of both of these realities. And I would of been well justified.

You should have the personal courage and integrity to do your little five reps for pushing off your responsibility, of taking care of your own junk, onto someone else without any regard for their position. Frankly, your heart is in the wrong place. As a private and e4 I was in your shoes many a times. I said thank you to my NCOs after I did my 25 or 50 reps. They work hard to make us strong in mind and body.

You may be half-right in your technical understanding that he can't indefinitely withold your property from you. But, you signed and enlistment contract the same way you sign a syllabus in a college class room. And if your professor can take your phone until the end of class, your NCO can hold you blue ray player and movies till you get done pushing son.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Aug 11 at 2016 4:02 PM

SGT Chester Beedle — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:02:28 -0400

You did hook up personal property to a government owned item.
Beyond that though, stop being a wuss and just do the damn pushups. This is the problem with the Army and America today. The wussification of American and by extension, the Army. Whaaaa, whaaa.... they are making me do pushups and it's not directly connected to the mistake like the regs say.... whaaaaaa....
Yeah, I'm an ass. Whatever.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2016 12:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 12:36:59 -0400

If it was left in a common room it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to acquire the object in hopes of returning it to said individual. Keep in mind this guy is a dick for trying to force you to push. However you have two options either you push and sweat for a moment in time or get it pushed onto a paper action that can be difficult to fight. Choose your next course of action as well as keep in mind reservists and national guardsmen look at this site potentially even your chain of command.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2016 8:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 20:26:32 -0400

Did you have a reflective belt on? If not, you were right to not conduct physical training. Safety, safety, safety.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 12 at 2016 9:04 PM

SFC Joseph Weber — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 21:04:05 -0400

No. If someone watched it for you I would say a beer is more appropriate.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2016 1:45 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 01:45:46 -0400

Three cheers for the XO. At least one person in your Armory didn't join the Navy on the 4-8 Watch!!!

Response by SGT Michael Smith made Aug 14 at 2016 3:37 PM

SGT Michael Smith — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:37:11 -0400

also see both aspects of the issue however personal
Property is personal property and I do agree , rifle , ruck or any issued military gear would be one thing ... wallet , car keys etc shouldn't have been ... yes there is a bigger picture to it , but that's mor for new soldiers in basic .... not permanent party

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 3:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 03:25:25 -0400

I can see where the confusion came from though. On the active side the Armory is only for Unit weapons.

Response by SGT Brian Bailey made Aug 15 at 2016 5:28 PM

SGT Brian Bailey — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:28:49 -0400

Question was the NCO informed to watch personal property?

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Aug 19 at 2016 9:20 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:20:11 -0400

Your O.X. Was Right. Sound's Like the S-1 Was Being A D-Bag. Be Careful Your Record's Are Going To Get Messed With.

Response by SGT Keaven Brown made Aug 20 at 2016 1:17 AM

SGT Keaven Brown — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 01:17:46 -0400

Just the push ups without ?

Response by SGT Matthew Luckner made Sep 1 at 2016 2:23 PM

SGT Matthew Luckner — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 14:23:18 -0400

Corrective training must fit the infraction. However, in this case, the NCO was completely unjustified because you had not misplaced anything that was of importance. If your blu-ray player had been stolen it would not have impacted your ability to conduct your duty as a soldier. I wonder if the police department should make owners of recovered stolen goods do pushups to get them back...

Response by SGT Terry Ryan made Sep 4 at 2016 2:54 AM

SGT Terry Ryan — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 02:54:33 -0400

Unsecured is unsecured. Having to push to get your shit back teaches/reinforces situational awareness. Ever see what a Drill Sargent will do if you leave a wall locker unlocked.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 5:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 05:18:40 -0400

No way. I would never make my soldier push for losing personal property unless I found it on an aircraft. If you lose it, it's your loss. TA-50 is a whole different situation. I find your Kevlar in the motor pool and it's game on!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2016 12:09 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Sep 2016 00:09:58 -0400

PT and end of story, or paperwork that may have more than a 10min impact on your career.
"#1 Sergeant, 2 Sergeant....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2016 1:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:58:50 -0400

I had a 1SG hop in my car and park it up the street. Then proceed to turn in my keys at the brigade staff duty. This was because I was inside the building about 20 feet away and the car was parked in a loading zone as we were loading equipment into it to bring it out to another location.

I was given the option of whether or not to charge my 1SG with grand theft auto. Yes.. You heard me right. Regardless of your rank, you can not break local laws as a means of "teaching someone a lesson".

1. It's a retarded thing to do.
2. You put yourself at risk of legal ramifications.
3. It isn't your stuff, so keep your hands off it.

That's what it boils down to. They cannot legally do that. More over, what you're describing is completely against our creed as non-commissioned officers. He basically held your stuff and then wanted to use it and his rank as leverage to boost his apparently non-existent self esteem. "I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety."

Glad your COC backed you on it. Hate seeing idiots abusing their power.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Sep 22 at 2016 2:22 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 14:22:52 -0400

OK, after reading all the updated info posted here, I come to this conclusion: A simple matter got blown out proportion and drug the commander into it. Its the kind of thing that will get some ridiculous policy put in place, like no more civilian items/personal property being brought into the Armory on drill weekends. Sometimes there is an overreaction when a problem arises from a privilege, and the simple solution is suspend the privilege.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2016 5:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 17:43:16 -0400

Ok I respect the military, I too am in the Guards, but with the fact that our numbers are diminishing, do we want to push soldiers to the point of not wanting to be part of your unit because of something so petty, if the shoe was on the other foot would you do the same thing, f*** sakes treat these guys with the respect you want to be treated with, he will be the one to watch your back when shit hits the fan.

Response by SGT Phillip Tucker made Sep 29 at 2016 11:57 PM

SGT Phillip Tucker — Thu, 29 Sep 2016 23:57:13 -0400

Not at all for personal gear, seems he was on a power trip

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2016 12:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:03:53 -0500

If it's something personal that you bought with your money, hell no you shouldn't have to do push-ups. On the other hand, be gracious enough he's giving you the opportunity to earn it back because most people would just steal it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2016 8:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:35 -0500

The lesson here is not to leave and items out being personal or government issued. The corrective training is a little over doing. In my days would rather get corrective training then having it on paper for something so small.

Response by SGT Anne Murchison - Vanderlaan made Apr 15 at 2017 9:56 PM

SGT Anne Murchison - Vanderlaan — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:56:51 -0400

He may be out of line, but if he out ranks you show respect for the rank and move on soldier. It's what separates us from the Civilians. Accountability and responsibility for our actions. I get it was personal property, however you left behind in military environment? Choose your battles.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2017 2:47 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 14:47:50 -0400

my opinion no its theirs. If it was military issued then yes their should be consequences .

Response by SGT William H. made Nov 9 at 2017 3:48 AM

SGT William H. — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 03:48:09 -0500

I think you missed a golden opportunity. We train to learn!!! If we error, we need training. It remains to be seen if you've learned from this experience. Doesn't really matter if S-1 NCO was "being a dick" or not. If we don't learn from mistakes, we will often repeat them. Sometimes as great cost.

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made Dec 29 at 2017 2:59 PM

SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:59:21 -0500

I would have done them in good humor and moved on. It sounds like you were wrapped around the fence too much on this one...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2017 9:48 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 09:48:32 -0500

Glad it worked out. Sounds like a very bad call on his part and for being a jerk.

Response by SrA Dan Frady made Dec 31 at 2017 4:38 PM

SrA Dan Frady — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:38:53 -0500

Agreed no push up. Some people are just dicks.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 31 at 2017 5:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:48:56 -0500

For what it is worth, I agree with you. As leaders there are things we can, and cannot do. We cannot assume we have the ultimate authority. When we do we are no better than some 2 bit dictator.

Response by SGT Tj Casiano made Jan 26 at 2018 3:28 AM

SGT Tj Casiano — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 03:28:13 -0500

This is why there's a difference between active duty and National Guard. Active duty Army wouldn't complain about stuff like this.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 1:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:10:43 -0400

They can make you do corrective training for leaving your personal belongings in the building but they may not keep your Bluray player as that would be petty theft which is illegal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2019 4:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 May 2019 04:49:03 -0400

I have thought about punishments a lot lately considering i found out I finally have a slot in BLC. After reading some of the responses here I think i would on first offense, warning not to do it again or corrective action. Second offense, some kind of unique punishment that isn't PT related. Third offense, paperwork. But I'm not a NCO yet so my opinion carries little weight.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Jun 14 at 2019 1:38 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:38:44 -0400

If you left it out and it had been stolen then what? However, an E7 being a jerk two wrongs don't make a right.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 9:30 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:30:08 -0400

I'd have been all like "Okay, then I guess we won't have a DVD player for the unit TV during battle assembly anymore......". The Soldier presumably brought it in to share DVD access with everyone. If that NCO wanted to be a dick, and it were me, I'd do the pushups, and then announce at formation that there would be no more DVD playing....and let them know any complaints could be forwarded to that NCO. Let him deal with it (and yes, it's a him...women don't pull this kind of dick measuring dumbfuckery).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2019 10:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:39:00 -0400

I am surprised your post was misunderstood. It's plain as day. I too would've stood on the principle that I don't have to do push-ups for my personal items.

Response by SGT Richard Gocio made Jan 17 at 2020 10:00 AM

SGT Richard Gocio — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:00:23 -0500

Let me get this straight, a "Staff NCO" decides to discipline a line NCO over personal property. Sounds like a Staff NCO needs to go back to being a squad leader for a while because he misses it. That the matter to had to be taken to a commissioned officer shows that the SFC has lost touch with their role and responsibilities as a senior NCO. Good call by your XO.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Feb 8 at 2020 5:11 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 17:11:38 -0500

You're lucky it either would've disappeared or got broke by some unknown soldier who was out of his area

Response by SGT David Goodno made May 24 at 2020 10:23 PM

SGT David Goodno — Sun, 24 May 2020 22:23:38 -0400

Just do the pushups. You're in a combat arms MOS - not communications. Dick move or not, drop and push. I'd 4856 you for being insubordinate and being a little bitch. - yeah I'd never cope in this new touchie feely army. Fk your stress card and your feelings.

Response by SGT Jd Cannon made May 25 at 2021 5:48 PM

SGT Jd Cannon — Tue, 25 May 2021 17:48:13 -0400

Unsecured property is defined by: would someone steal iy, and would the “theft” be consequential as in dollar amount/ cause disturbance to recover. If “personal property” falls into these categories, it should have been secured. If you were the only one in the area (no one tending said property) and the area wasn’t secured that’s issue 2, but the recovering person would have been at fault ONLY if they gained admission to area by key, or took it from another’s possession. The rules are such for a reason.... as not to cause conflict because people “FIND” things.