Should a Soldier or NCO that is Pathfinder qualified and SLIC (Sling Load Inspector Certified) be pushed to go to Air Assault school?

2014-03-19T18:48:56-04:00

Here is a question, I was very fortunate to attend SLIC (Sling Load
Inspector Course) the week during 9-11-01, I will never forget where I
was when that happened. After completion of that course I was charged
with standing up a sling load platoon for my Unit (A. Co. 53rd BSB FL
National Guard) During our weekend drills and AT that is what we did,
sling load supplies forward to the INF BNs. Then in 2003 I was asked to
go to US Army Pathfinder school and I earned my torch. Then in 2008 I
deployed with 3rd IBCT-1st INF to Afghanistan and because I was the most
the senior Pathfinder in the Cav Sguadron my unit supported I was
selected to be the S3 Air and the senior sling load OIC in our AOR. I
had to figure out how to safely sling load some very unique external
loads that are not taught in AA School or Pathfinder School its knowing
your air items and how to use them in a very unique situation. I have
not attended AA school due to medical limitations but with my experience
in AA operations and Sling Load Ops I can lead by example in the AA
world without being an AA school grad. The question is with my
experience should I still be forced to go?

Response by SFC James Baber made Mar 21 at 2014 2:16 AM

2014-03-21T02:16:37-04:00

Yes,

Because technically based on liability potential, if something were to happen, GOD forbid to any load that had your name attached to it, think of the blowback if their were casualties, loss of life or limb and property damage, the potential lawsuits and reliefs from the top of the command chain on down would be horrific.

You have to look at the big picture, not just that you are being forced to go, look at what the reasoning behind it is and why it should be for that matter, it isn't about you, it is about the entire mission and purpose.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 12:09 PM

2014-04-09T12:09:37-04:00

I agree with everything SFC Baber said. Plus if you think about, you already have SLIC & Pathfinder. Air Assault school is going to be a breeze for you

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 5:23 AM

2014-04-10T05:23:16-04:00

SSG Guzman,

Should you be forced to go to Air Assault School? Possibly not. Would it still be beneficial to you, yes. I myself have attended all three courses and there are slight variations in each.

For starters you don't get any of Air Assault Phase Three (the tower, or rappelling and fast roping phase) in either of the other two courses. Learning these basic techniques can allow you to attend more advanced courses such as Rappel Master, or FRIES/SPIES Master later on.

Additionally depending on where you earned your torch, and given that it was now over ten years ago, the information put out in Phase One (the classroom phase) will have changed even if only slightly. This includes information on Army aircraft, especially the aircraft you will find in the 101st, Aeromedevac procedures, Combat Assault operations, as well as Pathfinder operations. Even if you are already aware of the majority of this information as a leader it can't hurt to be aware of the information your Soldiers are learning as it may be slightly different from your past experiences.

In regards to duties as a sling load inspector you are correct in saying that you must meet at least one of the three criteria; E-4 or above and a graduate of either Pathfinder, Air Assault, or SLICC (Sling Load Inspector's Certification Course) however, the standards are not the same across all three courses. Air Assault Phase Two (the sling load phase) focuses on Gold Book standard while Pathfinder and SLICC focus on doctrine. Because of this there are variations in where breakaways are placed or what exactly needs to be secured or shatter proofed on each load. While you could simply open up the Gold Book and applicable TM's to reference these differences attending Air Assault School would be refresher training at the very least.

Also FYI FM 4-20.197 is no longer an active FM.

FM 4-20.197 was replaced by TM 4-48.09

FM 4-20.198 was replaced by TM 4-48.10

FM 4-20.199 was replaced by TM 4-48.11

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 5:27 AM

2014-04-10T05:27:49-04:00

Being SLICC Qualified myself, and having many unique and difficult missions, I would still would jump at the chance to attend the other two. As stated above, there are other aspects taught in those courses which can only serve to benefit yourself, and your unit.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 1:03 PM

2014-05-21T13:03:05-04:00

I believe that someone that is both Pathfinder qualified and SLIC should not be foreced, but required to go to AA school. It sounds like you were lucky SSG to go to the Pathfinder course, as AA is a prerequisite for Pathfinder. However, if your medical limitations are keeping you from going but you believe you can complete the course, I would recommend going. The classroom portion of the course should come easily given your previous experience.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 3:08 PM

2014-05-22T15:08:50-04:00

If it is a Divisional requirment then yes you should. If you have a profile that limits you from competing all phases then the CoC should take that into account.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 9:08 AM

2014-06-03T09:08:21-04:00

If it's being offered, why not go? You can never gain enough knowledge on a subject.

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made Jun 3 at 2014 9:19 AM

2014-06-03T09:19:24-04:00

The fact that you passed both without going to AASLT speaks volumes. Pathfinder is a very difficult course, and AASLT and Jumpmaster help a bit. Unfortunately for you, Campbell is really pushing to have more people AASLT qualified. Honestly, I would just take the course. That way, it is over. Yeah, for you, you won't learn much, maybe rappelling, but you will "fit the mold" better there. You could also present your situation and experience to the school and see what comes of it.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2014 5:51 AM

2014-07-16T05:51:06-04:00

As an Air Force guy I attended Pathfinder 6 years before Air Assault. Once I PCS'd to Ft. Campbell, I felt there was benefit for more the Airmen I supervised to know that I was willing to go. It is the Division standard and every leader should be required to attend.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-03-23T15:19:30-04:00

No you should not be forced to go, if it is a qual that you have to be for you position. That being said having the 2 schools you have you have more qualifications then someone with the bullwinkle badge

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2020 7:47 PM

2020-12-12T19:47:49-05:00

Going will only enhance your skill set and broaden your opportunities. Dont limit yourself.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jun 7 at 2023 6:53 AM

2023-06-07T06:53:02-04:00

If your unit is AA then yes you must go.