Should a Vietnam veteran be denied pain pills after testing positive for marijuana?

2015-09-10T09:38:38-04:00

Should a Vietnam veteran be denied pain pills after testing positive for marijuana?

Another great article from Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM!

What do you say RP Members about this? What's your opinion? This is definitely a very touchy subject in the country right now with Veterans who are suffering from PTSD. Here are some additional articles in reference to the use of Marijuana for the treatment of PTSD:

http://www.leafscience.com/2013/11/11/dr-sue-sisley-explains-hope-marijuana-ptsd-video/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/10/why-did-america-s-only-pot-researcher-suddenly-get-fired.html

http://naturalsociety.com/marijuana-backed-studies-fda-approved-pharma-drugs/

http://www.infowars.com/marijuana-kills-cancer-says-national-cancer-institute/

http://www.leafscience.com/2014/07/25/u-s-government-patent-marijuana/

http://ksn.com/2015/09/09/vietnam-veteran-denied-pain-pills-after-testing-positive-for-marijuana/

Vietnam veteran denied pain pills after testing positive for marijuana

65-year old Vietnam veteran Gary Dixon was denied his prescription medication to help with his treatment of stage four cancer.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Sep 10 at 2015 9:39 AM

2015-09-10T09:39:53-04:00

Right, wrong or purple ... "The Law Is The Law"!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 10 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-09-10T10:05:52-04:00

Complex issue.

We're talking about mixing pharmaceuticals with unknown effects.

Should a pharmacist issue a script for a drug if he "knows" it will cause an issue with another medication? Of course not. What about if he just doesn't know? Doesn't that border on negligence?

The patient can't fully absolve his doctor and pharmacist of liability for all these "treatments" when it gets this complex.

So in this case, I don't think there is a "good" or even a "most right" answer. Just diverging opinions.

Edit: Corrected two words.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 10:20 AM

2015-09-10T10:20:26-04:00

It appears that Mr. Dixon was trying to get a some sprinkles for his pot cake. C'mon.. really? Did this veteran believe that everything would be ok, and his pill wish would be granted? I have much love for my Vietnam veteran brothers and sisters, but how many more times can they mention "Vietnam" in that post?

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Sep 10 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-09-10T10:25:16-04:00

I am assuming that the Vietnam veteran was smoking marijuana to help with the extreme pain he was feeling.
However if he was smoking the marijuana to excess; he should not be allowed to take pain pills.
But Someone should have compassion for this veteran; who is either a medical professional, or a legal professional; to help him with his extreme pain. He decidedly should not have to endure his pain.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Sep 10 at 2015 10:34 AM

2015-09-10T10:34:33-04:00

Yes. Perhaps a retest in a week or two. I was in pain management After I screwed my spine up and a month with nothing for pain will drive you crazy.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Sep 10 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-09-10T10:37:40-04:00

My initial thoughts were to support the veteran, until I listen to the story and realize he is mixing drugs and not following the doctor's directions.
You have lung cancer and you are smoking? ANYONE? Bueller? Anyone?
In this one, I have to side with the doctors and the VA.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 10 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-09-10T10:42:30-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs this is a challenging question to answer. Since there may be mitigating factors.
1. If the veteran has been prescribed medical marijuana for pain, there can be complications between some of the chemicals in marijuana and other pain medications.
2. Some cancers generate little pain while others can be excruciating. The level of pain the veteran is experiencing is an important factor - whether it is constant, intermittent, exacerbated by activity or reduced by activity, etc.
3. Did the veteran have prior drug abuse problems? Some drugs lend themselves to abuse more than others.
4. Is marijuana legal in the state where this occurs?
5. What was the level of marijuana chemicals in the veteran when he was tested? Is he a casual marijuana user, a medical marijuana user [less THC], or is he somebody who "parties" a lot.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Sep 10 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-09-10T10:43:26-04:00

Yes - unfortunately, unless marijuana is prescribed, it's against the law, and also against the opiate abuse policy mandated by the government. Gary Dixon is making his own choice - he would rather continue to smoke than get the medication he needs for free - seems to me that anyone making that choice is saying - I don't really NEED the pills as much as I enjoy smoking pot! Continuing to offer the free meds would only be contributing to his apparent "addiction" and instead we should offer him help to go to addiction counselling.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 10 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-09-10T10:45:53-04:00

IMO, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Whether MJ is truly medicinal or just a placebo, so what? If we have a legal basis for it in a few states, not my concern. If the pain pills are for a valid service connected disability, dispense them!

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Sep 10 at 2015 11:17 AM

2015-09-10T11:17:35-04:00

Medicinal marijuana is not legal in Kansas. VA policy requires that in states where medicinal marijuana is LEGAL it is not allowed to hold that against them.

It is standard practice in ALL narcotics clinics to test for street drugs, as well as to ensure a proper level of the prescribed opiate, to ensure the patient is using it and not selling it on the street.

Unfortunately for Dixon, he violated state law and got caught. While I think the country needs a national policy legalizing marijuana, the law does not currently support that...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-09-10T11:22:47-04:00

The "court of public opinion" should never replace the clinical judgment of a licensed provider. Signing a narcotics agreement acknowledges the implications of substance use/abuse. I would not risk my license, and therefore my ability to care for other patients, for the willful disregard of controlled substance agreement. Period. On the other hand, if a patient came to me with concerns of substance addiction, I would move a mountain to get them help.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 10 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-09-10T11:25:47-04:00

Sir, I honestly feel for this man. He shouldn't have to suffer, but when I went through IDES and met with the VA in the C&P process, I asked about smoking weed for PTSD and was told directly I could provided I was willing to give up everything I earned in my disability proceedings. Weed is still illegal by the Federal government, and that trumps the state laws and VA is regulated by the feds. I'm met many vets some who were in therapy with me, and they smoke and they say it takes the edge off and the memories are more manageable. I kind of wish I tried it, but am not willing to sacrifice my disability care for a puff of anything. Ad insult to injury I intern for the federal government and I plan on working for this entity when this is over. I won't jeopardize my future career for a puff of anything. That said maybe the feds needs to take a stronger look at the effects of weed on the body beyond the party line that's been shown for the last 50 years.

Response by SGT Eric Dziekan made Sep 10 at 2015 11:29 AM

2015-09-10T11:29:10-04:00

There are a couple of concerns here and I'll throw my two cents in as a RN.

The first is the legal aspect... Even if a state legalized MJ for medical purposes the Federal Government didn't. Its still a Federal crime and the VA is a Federal institution goverened by Federal laws.

Next, if it were for "medical use" who regulates it? Does the prescribing MD say "smoke x amounts of joints a day for pain"? Is there a monthly allotment that is checked? The answer is no. They smoke as much as they feel like with no follow up from the prescriber. This man doesn't even have that much as it is illegal in his state.

Lastly if the VA were to keep prescribing they would be liable if something happened knowing that he was mixing drugs and refused to quit.

I would wonder if the medication management of his pain was truely effective why would he need the MJ?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-09-10T11:36:49-04:00

There is some potential that recognition of the medicinal benefits will be forthcoming. Politics has blocked substantial research since it was first banned. The official VA position is currently:
"Marijuana use for medical conditions is an issue of growing concern. Some Veterans use marijuana to relieve symptoms of PTSD and several states specifically approve the use of medical marijuana for PTSD. However, controlled studies have not been conducted to evaluate the safety or effectiveness of medical marijuana for PTSD. Thus, there is no evidence at this time that marijuana is an effective treatment for PTSD. In fact, research suggests that marijuana can be harmful to individuals with PTSD. :

Marijuana Treatment Study on PTSD for Veterans Gets Back on Track

The first federally backed study into using marijuana for veterans’ PTSD is back on track.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Sep 10 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-09-10T11:55:58-04:00

Two glaring sentences: "They (Veterans) have to sign an ‘opiate consent’ form which outlines the negative effect of mixing pain killers and marijuana is now required." Followed by: "Under the new VA guidelines, vets can get their prescriptions filled, or use marijuana, but can’t do both."

Is this rule in place to 1.) Prevent a catastrophic prescription cocktail; and/or 2.) to prevent/curb illegal drug abuse. Maybe both. My supposition is that the doctors and pharmacists are acting in the best interest of BOTH the VA and the veterans.

Response by SFC Cary Jeffery made Sep 10 at 2015 12:09 PM

2015-09-10T12:09:43-04:00

Is it medicine prescription from private doctor for Glaucoma? Is the Glaucoma considerd service connected disability?

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 10 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-09-10T12:12:39-04:00

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Sep 10 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-09-10T12:26:27-04:00

This is a tough issue. Pot is still illegal on the federal books. Many states have now written that it is Medically authorized (and some have even gone so far as to legalize it for recreation). I think that in some of the states that have now allowed it, we will start to see some EVIDENCE BASED medicine....studies will be done and published.

As an RN, I do not know everything. Pain is VERY subjective and varies from person to person and condition to condition. I can not tell you that you do NOT have pain.....(not ethically anyway based on my training). There appears to be the great potential that medical MJ will have positive impact. The true medical stuff has greatly reduced side effects (the HIGH/STONED), but continues to work well. You will still test positive using these refined MJ products, but Stoned and High are not great risks with them. Look at the child that is taking medical MJ for seizures....going from hundreds per day to 10s per day and now actually progressing in life.

This needs to be looked at from a medical and science base. Federal laws are not always right and sometimes need to be re-addressed. Do I agree with this situation? No. Do I disagree with this situation? No. At this time, I have not seen research to back up or refute the medical effectiveness and safety of using MJ products in health care. I am open to changes, but they must be justified.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 10 at 2015 12:36 PM

2015-09-10T12:36:03-04:00

Living in CA, I see signs by NG unit for "suffering from PTSD, get you medical Marijuana, see DrXXXX" which quite frankly pisses me off in more ways than you can imagine. 1. its location near a National Guard unit that has a lot of people who have done multiple deployments is tasteless. 2. making money off some Vet's PTSD in this manner, make me want to Keel haul this guy, and I was never in the Navy. 3. It is still illegal for service members to partake in this stuff. 4. Side effects of marijuana anxiety, why the frack would we give something to people who suffer from anxiety already?

So with regards to our Vietnam vets, He is on an opiate and wants to take marijuana. The VA is protecting itself, as I doubt there has been a study on this to prove the long and short term benefits. I have to side with the VA on this.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Sep 10 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-09-10T12:55:55-04:00

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; Somehow I can't really work up a whole lot of enthusiasm for any policy which (in effect) says "Because you are doing something that I don't approve of I am going to allow you to die in excruciation torment. Thanks for your service, now don't let the door hit you on your way out.".

If the VA is TRULY concerned about the effects of "mixing medication" then it might take a look at the actual studies which have been done. The VA could also have people sign liability waivers and consent forms acknowledging that the results of doing what they are doing are not known.

Most distressing, is the statement that it was NOT 100% certain that this person would be allowed to resume his pain medications EVEN IF HE STOPPED USING MARIJUANA!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-09-10T12:57:29-04:00

Propaganda film that relates the story, as told by high school principal Dr. Carroll to parents at a PTA meeting, of the scourge of marijuana. The tale revolves around Mae and Jack, accomplices in the distribution of marijuana, who manage to entice the local high school kids to stop by Mae's apartment to smoke reefer. The lives of all who are involved with this menace are inevitably shattered. One man becomes so addicted to the killer weed that the guilt over framing a teen for murder causes a judge to order him to be committed for life to a mental hospital! Dr. Carroll closes by advising us to not incur the same tragedy. The unspoken undercurrent of the time was exceptionally racist, with marijuana being seen as something for Mexican immigrants and Black Americans, especially those scoundrel musicians.

The foreward to the movie:
The motion picture you are about to witness may startle you. It would not have been possible, otherwise, to sufficiently emphasize the frightful toll of the new drug menace which is destroying the youth of America in alarmingly-increasing numbers. Marihuana is that drug - a violent narcotic - an unspeakable scourge - The Real Public Enemy Number One! Its first effect is sudden, violent, uncontrollable laughter; then come dangerous hallucinations - space expands - time slows down, almost stands still ....fixed ideas come next, conjuring up monstrous extravagances - followed by emotional disturbances, the total inability to direct thoughts, the loss of all power to resist physical emotions... leading finally to acts of shocking violence... ending often in incurable insanity. In picturing its soul-destroying effects no attempt was made to equivocate. The scenes and incidents, while fictionized for the purposes of this story, are based upon actual research into the results of Marihuana addiction. If their stark reality will make you think, will make you aware that something must be done to wipe out this ghastly menace, then the picture will not have failed in its purpose.... Because the dread Marihuana may be reaching forth next for your son or daughter....or yours....or YOURS!

If you've never seen this movie, you should.

Reefer Madness (1936)

Directed by Louis J. Gasnier. With Dorothy Short, Kenneth Craig, Lillian Miles, Dave O'Brien. Cautionary tale features a fictionalized and highly exaggerated take on the use of marijuana. A trio of drug dealers lead innocent teenagers to become addicted to "reefer" cigarettes by holding wild parties with jazz music.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-09-10T13:00:38-04:00

Reading the article it sounds like it was a medical decision. Should a doctor be somehow compelled to prescribe incompatible drugs that will harm their patient? Should they provide prescriptions for drugs with unknown interactions, which this would be since a herbal product like marijuana is going to be unknown strength and composition? Can someone guarantee no malpractice suits will be filed if it goes bad?

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Sep 10 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-09-10T13:14:24-04:00

Hey there RP Members, since Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM can't respond to all your great comments she wanted to share some information with you and I'm just passing it along for you're benefit and additional comments/feedback:

From Kim:

Okay here you go

It is a Plant that needs to be removed from the schedule completely, but it must be done by Executive Order.
It was placed on the schedule in the roaring 20's for prohibition sake, because of the public outcry which was racially motivated at that time in our history.

Who better than this POTUS to reverse that discrimination?
Alcohol and tobacco are now legal, it is only marijuana that remains on that list today. Both alcohol and tobacco kill more individuals daily, than on any given day as opposed to marijuana.

We also have several Commander's in Chief, that have used this plant, for either their recreational use or their medicinal use.

Give this economic engine to the people to improve our own economy and health.

It has been proven to help with PTSD, seizure disorders in children and adults, cancer patients to prevent nausea and vomiting after toxic chemotherapy. etc.

But we do not want this in Big Pharma's hands.

There has not been one single marijuana overdose recorded throughout time.
(unless it is man made synthetic by big pharma)

But use Big Pharma's poly-medicines and they all interact with something and each other.

Does anyone ever ask if cardiac medications interact with proton pump inhibitors or antibiotics?

Not until they are in the ER or dead.

Just sayin,

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Sep 10 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-09-10T13:17:44-04:00

Two years ago I would have said he should be denied. But, I live in Colorado and it's now sold over the counter and is legal...so no. Now, what did I do with those Doritos? :-).

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 10 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-09-10T13:44:14-04:00

Its hard to really say because did the veteran use marijuana because the pain was so excessive? I know there are hundreds of studies saying that the THC in marijuana has pain controlling management properties and can actually help people suffering chronic pain.
I don't know the effects of mixing prescription pain medication with marijuana and I would bet there are studies out there both positive and negative.
Veterans suffering pain need help and I think that the VA needs to do more.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Sep 10 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-09-10T15:03:10-04:00

There are always more details to elicit, but on the face of it, why even bring up Viet Nam? What happened to everyone else? Segregation has been used to divide and conquer us for decades. Enough already with stigmas. Why is the vet smoking? First questions first...then appropriate answers can be made.

Response by SCPO Penny Douphinett made Sep 10 at 2015 3:25 PM

2015-09-10T15:25:29-04:00

This is such a tough area. When I was a practicing clinical psychotherapist I dealt with this at least once a week with my patients with chronic pain. They would be on pain meds and also smoking pot. When narcotics contracts became common we would talk about the risks. My patients also suffered from mental illness, depression, anxiety, PTSD (civilians) and all would become enraged at the thought of having to stop smoking. Eventually most would "pop positive" and would be shocked when their doctor would stop their pain meds. For many this is a lifestyle choice as in "no one can tell me what I can or can't do" and when Maine became a legal MJ State they then tried to become legal experts.

The outcome is the same though. Once someone has signed a narcotics contract they have agreed to certain conditions to obtain the pain meds they need. One of them is no marijuana, legal in their State or not. I believe the VA is doing this to look out for the patient and to cover their ass as ALL doctors do. The main reason though, IMHO, is the billion dollar illegal drug trade in the country.

I am also on VA provided pain meds and take screening tests whenever asked. I was once threatened with stopping pain meds because my tests showed I hadn't taken enough pain meds. I was subjected to random pill counting for over 2 years. I had had an unexpected good period of pain control, the first in 10 years! Until that time I was given pain meds as prn, trusted to refill them as needed without a problem. All this was done with a new doctor who didn't know me, he also put me on time released meds for "stricter control". I share this not to be bitter, I think it is a sadly humorous tale of the lengths the medical profession now has to go to because they (doctors, VA, government) fear we are all becoming addicts as we try to manage, in particular, service connected injuries and pain.

Response by PO3 David Deutsch made Sep 10 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-09-10T15:40:27-04:00

No. A Vietnam Veteran should never be denied pain medication under any conditions. After all, his pain was most likely caused by doing service to his country!

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Sep 10 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-09-10T15:45:17-04:00

Well if not pea them well what can I say it I per joy no job, some states no,well fair. I can't say I have never smoked but I did when I was a late teen, the efcects on me were laughs and mellowed out, If laws states a regulation or rule them that is it.

Response by GySgt John Gardner made Sep 10 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-09-10T16:21:34-04:00

No he should not be denied. Furthermore, if it helps his quality of life and helps with the pain why not!

Response by SPC Shawn Clarke made Sep 10 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-09-10T17:51:17-04:00

Granted I live in Colorado where it is legal, but I believe he is trying to receive help with any means necessary, and for him to go to them for help, no he should not be denied, I self medicate, because I am still waiting to get back on my meds. But ever since I have been self-medicating ,I feel 10 times better then I ever did when I was medicated by the VA.

Response by SSgt Khanh Pham made Sep 10 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-09-10T18:16:48-04:00

Not to start a conspiracy, but watch out for the broad effect to end the lives of elders. We're at a resource constraint, and extra weight being eliminated is a lightly outcome.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 6:27 PM

2015-09-10T18:27:34-04:00

It depends on the doctor and the state. You need to let the VA know if you are going to smoke marijuana, or are already smoking it. Since different states are allowing medical marijuana, I read that is the way the VA is handling it. Here's a good link for more information.

http://kdvr.com/2014/05/08/marijuana-use-wont-disqualify-u-s-veteran-for-healthcare/

VA: Marijuana usage won’t disqualify U.S. vets for healthcare

DENVER -- War veterans in Colorado seeking relief in the form of legal marijuana will not face any resistance from the Veterans Administration Eastern Colorado Healthcare System, a spokesperson con...

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Sep 10 at 2015 7:17 PM

2015-09-10T19:17:14-04:00

I read somewhere that a man was tried in Canada over the use of THC to treat various diseases and he had a remarkable percentage of recovery rates. He was extracting the hemp oil and prescribing it in dose amounts; different doses for different diseases. He wasn't selling pot for people to smoke. The courts deemed that his treatment with the extracted hemp oil was of medical value based on the many testimonies and medical records of people with diseases and then proof of their being cured. I don't know if they continued to allow him to practice, but they didn't find him guilty. God put everything here for a purpose. it's up to us to use it correctly and not abuse it. Is the man benefiting from the use of it? If he is and there will be no adverse effects other than drowsiness, then he should be granted his meds. If the mixture of the two will cause serious damage then he should choose between the two based on which one is more beneficial in treating his condition. J.M.H.O.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Sep 10 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-09-10T19:42:42-04:00

No, he should not be denied his medication. This is a complex topic but I think marijuana should be legalized at the federal level (like Colorado did at the state level). I was a cop (AZ State Trooper) for 21 years. We lost the so called "War on Drugs" a long time ago. I've seen too many cops die and families be devastated because of the war on drugs, not to mention the hundreds of billions we have wasted. I have pretty strong feelings on this topic (the War on Drugs) but I’ll stay on topic. Legalize marijuana, tax it and be done with it. If a person needs it for medical purposes, prescribe it to them. The thought that there is no medical benefit to using marijuana for certain illnesses is ridiculous.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Sep 10 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-09-10T19:55:07-04:00

Yes and No it seems though the VA has a valid point. about mixing Pain meds and Marijuana both are downers so it could cause problems. If he was denied because it counter acted with a prescription this would not be in the news. But since Marijuana brings ratings to news networks of course they will cover this and there will be an outcry for this Veteran. No i am not Anti Marijuana

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 10 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-09-10T21:15:30-04:00

I believe this is the very reason the VA makes you sign a pain management contract. I know that I feel like a criminal trying to get my meds refilled. Every freaking month I have to bleed and pee to get the very things I need to have the quality of life that I have. But why don't civilians have to bleed and pee for what they need from the government? Even after serving we continue to be treated worse than those who would rather curse the military.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 10 at 2015 11:25 PM

2015-09-10T23:25:52-04:00

No...put the Vet into therapy and or detox...help the vet...don't just deny him his meds. Get him the right kind of help so he can heal....but then again...if the VET has cancer or some other horrible disease...or glaucoma....where Marijuana actually helps relieve their pain and suffering, then YES.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-09-11T00:28:28-04:00

There are prescription cannibinolds available. One is called Marinol which is used for nausea especially cancer patients. This veteran should be prescribed something like that. While I definitely understand the concern COL Burroiughs and Krimberly Bolen say about Big Phama; they are indeed a formidable lobby; however, I don't trust storefront medical marijuana shops since they are not regulated very much. There could be harmful side ingredients. Same with the legal shops in Washington and Colorado. One of 2 things should happen: Either make it legal federally where it would be regulated by the FDA; or keep it illegal and enforce that law on the states, but make all medical research legal, and permit all doctors to appropriately prescribe cannibinoids from official pharmaceutical channels. You cant have it both ways right now its a confusing, contradictory system.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 11 at 2015 2:22 AM

2015-09-11T02:22:38-04:00

Thanks for sharing. While I don't use MJ myself (mostly because of my job working for a defense contractor and subject to federal law: drug testing, security clearance requirements, etc.) I am a proponent of legalized MJ (both medical and recreational).

Even if it were legal I myself wouldn't use it as I have no desire to (my pain is pretty mild and an occasional Excedrin is all I need). But if people enjoy it and/or it helps take the edge off their pain or PTSD, why not? Booze and tobacco are legal and a lot of studies I've read conclude that those two substances are far more addictive than weed. I've also talked to many veterans with PTSD and multiple types of combat/service-related injuries, as well as cancer patients, who DO use MJ and they all say that it has changed their lives for the better.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 11 at 2015 9:12 AM

2015-09-11T09:12:34-04:00

Healthcare is a team effort that involves the participation of a provider, and a patient in a mutually voluntary status. It is not like fast food drive through where you can go through one drive-through and get a burger, and go through another drive-through and get French fries that you prefer to make up a meal. If the provider does not wish to prescribe that medication they do not have to provide the medication. This goes through all levels of healthcare if the pharmacist sees something that is a major safety risk and they cannot see how it is mitigated then it’s fully appropriate for them not to dispense the medication, and if it is an inpatient the nurse does not have to administer the medication (It is a safety concern). This gentleman is being provided a clear option and he has made a clear choice, the fact that he is made a clear choice does not absolve the healthcare providers that are involved in his care from their responsibility to ensure his safety.

Further with consideration to the author who appears to have her background in legal consulting and case management not necessarily clinical pain management. It does seem that the Department of Veterans Affairs will prescribe Marinol (synthetic cannabis) which would seem both appropriate, and legal in the situation. My personal opinion on all this is that he needed to make an appointment with his provider, and have a real conversation on whether or not his pain needed to be referred to a pain management specialist, or if that provider could provide other ways of managing the situation. Instead the individual went to the illegal drug dealer, and now the legal ones have lost confidence in their ability to treat him in an ethical manner (Call me cold, but this is his fault).

I think the biggest problem that I have with the whole situation is that this is not really about this gentleman and his pain, or even protecting the licenses and livelihoods of the his providers, but it is about pursuing somebody’s agenda related to the legalization of marijuana.

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Sep 11 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-09-11T11:18:31-04:00

Perhaps he should be prescribed "medical marijuana" what's the harm, it's obvious the pain pills were not working otherwise he wouldn't have defaulted to the marijuana.
My father died from pancreatic cancer and the last three months I spent with him (no nursing home), he was in constant pain and moaning all the time. The only thing he would say to me is "Joey it hurts so bad" trying to fight back the tears... My dad was a "Tough Proud Irishmen".

Any medical professional that is responsible for the "pain management" of an individual should be required to go through.. call it a boot camp on "sensitivity training" and their final test should be the "pain phase" inject them with something that's not going to kill them... obviously, but will let them experience for 24 hours what constant debilitating pain feels like. I know that's ridiculous and absurd but I am just so damn tired of medical doctors "not listening" and rushing their patients through like corralling cattle.

It use to be "take 3 of these and I will see you in the morning"..
Now it's take this to the pharmacy and they will give you a 3 month supply with 2 refills, then go to the front desk and they will schedule your next appointment, probably close to the time you need a new prescription.

Sorry for the rant, I am just so damn pissed how our vets are being treated.

I do however offer this final solution that will actually solve the question of how we can give "quality and timely" health care to our brothers and sisters in arms.

First..Shut Down every VA Hospital in the country, maybe we can turn them into job training centers for our veterans.

Lastly, transfer all our veterans to the Five-Star health care plan that our US Congress and many federal employees enjoy today.

Problem Solved!!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 11 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-09-11T13:02:47-04:00

"Should a Vietnam veteran be denied pain pills after testing positive for marijuana?"
A better question is, "Should ANY human who is on a clear and short trip to a painful death be denied any substance that brings them any relief, be it physical or mental"
And My answer is a resounding NO.

What are they afraid he is going to get addicted?
Are they concerned he is going to die? news flash, that course is set for us all, and a very short trip it is for a stage 4 lung cancer patient.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 11 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-09-11T14:31:01-04:00

Anyone read this? http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/cannabis-pdq
or perhaps this?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-effective-is-medical-marijuana-heres-a-closer-look-at-14-different-uses/ar-AAbxpqn#page=1
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/

Cannabis and Cannabinoids

Expert-reviewed information summary about the use of Cannabis and cannabinoids in the treatment of cancer-related side effects, such as nausea and vomiting.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 11 at 2015 4:09 PM

2015-09-11T16:09:28-04:00

Hell no!

Response by LCpl Elvin Johnson made Sep 11 at 2015 10:30 PM

2015-09-11T22:30:07-04:00

Give him his pain meds and marijuana!!!! This is what will improve his quality of LIFE!!!! What ever he needs....GIVE IT TO HIM....

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Sep 12 at 2015 2:29 AM

2015-09-12T02:29:56-04:00

Given all other LACK of resources and service ever offered to those lucky enough to even get home from Vietnam, I'd say NO. This country owes them far more than that. If anything, get them into mental health treatment and after many meetings, determine if they need any sobriety programs. My comment here stands regardless of the "which state is it legal in" issue. Its not like anyone is being punitively dealt with for spitting on them or calling them Baby Killers when they returned home. And remember many of them had no interest in the military, but rather FedGov snatch their lives from them and their families.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Sep 12 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-09-12T08:39:28-04:00

Hell no. After going thru that (Vietnam), and living that long ( 70 or older) you should be able to do just about anything you want to stop pain: alcohol, marijuana, over the counter, under the counter, Rx, whatever. Let an old veteran live out his days in peace and painless.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-09-12T11:55:39-04:00

I think if a Vietnam vet, who by the way is around 60 years old, smokes a little marijuana should not be penalized. Hell, he's paying for it himself which saves taxpayers money. I believe by the time I retire in seven years it will be legal and Willey Nelson are going to have a Party. .... Doesn't the VA have bigger issues to give attention to like how about taking care of service members in less than 90 - 120 days. Maybe then the Vets would not have to go outside the lines to get pain relief. If I operated in the same half hearted, apathetic, and self absorbed attitude that some of the VA SR employees do would be at the very least relieved if not kicked out of the military altogether.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Sep 12 at 2015 5:55 PM

2015-09-12T17:55:30-04:00

To not dispense chronic pain meds to a stage 4 cancer patient is cruel & unusual punishment and is medically unethical! As to being asked to take a drug screen test in the first place? Seriously, that's insane. Since when did the VA turn into the Pot Police?!!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-09-12T18:26:36-04:00

Damn shame!

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 14 at 2015 9:53 AM

2015-09-14T09:53:21-04:00

Absolutely not. He has oak and needs appropriate treatment

Response by TSgt Brian Herman made Sep 14 at 2015 8:14 PM

2015-09-14T20:14:20-04:00

No...

Response by SGT David Starr made Sep 14 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-09-14T21:29:11-04:00

I don't think so hell they are making it available to vets in Washington state and with the laws about pain meds its forcing vets to seek out alternative means to deal with pain.

Response by SSG Katherine Likely made Sep 24 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-09-24T15:03:08-04:00

Marijuana is suppose to help relax you - to help you to cope - I've never heard of weed being able to squash pain - I can always be wrong - but, i say give them their pills.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 10:20 AM

2015-09-26T10:20:50-04:00

Would you wanna be denied pain pills if you were injured in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Response by PO1 Cliff Heath made Oct 8 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-10-08T14:45:49-04:00

THERE IS NO WAY HE SHOULD BE DENIED HIS MEDS HE IS IN STAGE 4 CANCER FOR GOD'S SAKE MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS OFTEN PRESCRIBED FOR VARIOUS CONDITIONS THIS VET NEEDS WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE HIM AS COMFORTABLE AS POSSIBLE