Should active or reserve mil pers be discharged "other than honorable" for displaying or assoc with Nazi or White Supremacy symbols/groups?

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:35:33 -0400

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/13/marine-busted-down-private-sharing-boot-swastika-photo-social-media.html?ESRC=marine_190820.nl

Marine Busted Down to Private for Sharing Boot Swastika Photo on Social Media

A Marine reservist lost a rank after he shared a photo of Marines posing with their boots in the shape of a swastika.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Aug 20 at 2019 4:00 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:00:39 -0400

If it is found go for due justice and investigate. If known to be attached to or affiliated with these groups then seperate with a no reenlist code on the DD-214 (if service is honorable). HOWEVER, just being affiliated with them is no crime so no other than honorable is warranted. Displaying a flag or a symbol is no crime, not good for morale and probably not the right thing to do but it isn't a crime. Other than honorable condtions are for crimes against the UCMJ and currently there is no statute in the ucmj for any of the above. BUT... you could probably attach Art 82 Conspiracy, Art 117 Provoking speeches or gestures, Art 134-12-Disloyal Statements if you stretched is far enough. Usually when outed if someone is affiliated it gets around and then the fights start etc and that is where you can get them withbeingprejudicial to good order and discipline. But until it is captured in the UCMJ you have to go other routes for dismissal...IMHO.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 20 at 2019 4:19 PM

SSG Brian G. — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:19:28 -0400

Displaying? No. That is covered under 1a and just displaying it means nothing. Many people have a rebel flag. Also people collect vintage material like flags and such. The caveat to that is if the display of such causes an issue with other personnel in the unit. IE displaying a rebel flag in the same room as a POC; a Nazi flag in the same room as say a person of German, Jewish or other heritage that finds it offensive.

As far as association with those groups? For a repeat offense after being ordered to NOT associate with them, then yes. But once it is discovered they associate with say the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood or some other such ground they should be counseled with the appropriate regulation reference stating that such association is conduct unbecoming and a poor reflection on the Army as well as a degradation of morale and unit readiness. Then follow on with an outline of cease and desist... OR...

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Aug 20 at 2019 4:21 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:21:44 -0400

I went through this argument in the '70's over "Black Panthers" vs. "Aryan Nation". Ask DOD what their decision was than; the major difference between then and today is the amount of poisonous venom spewed by the Main Stream press. No investigations into allegations just pure venom without facts. Did you not hear of the NYT https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/trump-blasts-new-york-times-racism-witch-hunt.html

Trump Blasts NY Times, Accuses It of Going on a “Racism Witch Hunt”

The president says his poll numbers would be far better if there was an “honest media.”

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Aug 20 at 2019 4:35 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:35:42 -0400

What does the UCMJ say about this?

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Aug 20 at 2019 4:41 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:41:25 -0400

Displaying, no, but in today's PC environment the people who do this are more likely than not to run up against other UCMJ infractions that will lead to discharge.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Aug 20 at 2019 4:41 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:41:33 -0400

Absolutely. It's a violation. Displaying these types of things is Hate Speech. I think there is absolutely no question with the Nazi Flag. The rebel flag is more questionable though. I say it is absolutely hate speech, but we still have states that incorporate it into state flags, so it might be a harder case.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 20 at 2019 5:49 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:49:00 -0400

Displaying, no. Associating, yes. I remember the countless briefings where I was td that we are not allowed to be affiliated with gangs or terrorists. There is even a list somewhere (supposedly) of officially sanctioned groups. I have to assume that the KKK is on the list, as are many neo-Nazi groups.

It is a simple choice. Once you enlist (or commission) you join the Army gang (or Marines, Navy, AF, CG). You get "jumped in" in basic, and you better be loyal to your gang. ALL other gangs are rivals, and you can't be in a rival gang.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2019 7:06 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 19:06:56 -0400

An unfortunate time to display anything. Not pulling for this Marine, not defending either...

In the diverse traditions within Hinduism, both the clockwise and counterclockwise swastika are found, with different meanings. The clockwise or right hand icon is called swastika, while the counterclockwise or left hand icon is called sauvastika.

The swastika or sauwastika (as a character, 卐 or 卍, respectively) is a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon in the cultures of Eurasia. Swastik is used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions.[1][2][3][4] In the Western world, it was a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck until the 1930s, when it became a feature of Nazi symbolism as an emblem of Aryan identity. As a result of World War II and the Holocaust, most people in the Western World associate it with Nazism and antisemitism.[5][6]

The name Swastika comes from Sanskrit word Swastik[7][8][9] (Devanagari: स्वस्तिक) meaning 'conducive to well being' or 'auspicious'.[10][11] In Hinduism, the symbol with arms pointing clockwise (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the counterclockwise symbol (卍) is called sauvastika, symbolizing night or tantric aspects of Kali.[11] In Jainism, a swastika is the symbol for Suparshvanatha – the seventh of 24 Tirthankaras (spiritual teachers and saviours), while in Buddhism it symbolizes the auspicious footprints of the Buddha.[11][12][13] In several major Indo-European religions, the swastika symbolizes lightning bolts, representing the thunder god and the king of the gods, such as Indra in Vedic Hinduism, Zeus in the ancient Greek religion, Jupiter in the ancient Roman religion, and Thor in the ancient Germanic religion.[1 1]

The swastika is an icon which is widely found in both human history and the modern world.[4][11] In various forms, it is otherwise known (in various European languages) as the fylfot, gammadion, tetraskelion, or cross cramponnée (a term in Anglo-Norman heraldry); German: Hakenkreuz; French: croix gammée. In northern Europe it has also been called a sun-wheel.[14][15] In China it is named wàn 卐 / 卍 / 萬, meaning 'all things', pronounced manji in Japanese. A swastika generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle.[16][17]

The earliest known swastika is from 10,000 BCE found in Mezine, Ukraine. The symbol is found in the archeological remains of the Sintashta culture and Indus Valley Civilization as well as in early Byzantine and Christian artwork.[4]

The swastika was adopted by several organizations in pre–World War I Europe, and later by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany before World War II. It was used by the Nazi Party to symbolize German nationalistic pride. To Jewish peoples and the targets of Nazi Germany's genocidal eugenics, it became a symbol of antisemitism and terror.[5] In many Western countries, the swastika is viewed as a symbol of racial supremacism and intimidation because of its association with Nazism.[6][18][19] Reverence for the swastika symbol in Asian cultures, in contrast to the West's stigmatization of the symbol, has led to misinterpretations and misunderstandings. The symbol is still rallied behind as a sign of Neo-Nazism.[20][21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

We condemn from the narrow perspective we hold to. There are many religions and beliefs that still use the sun wheel as a focal. Wiccans rarely display it for 2 reasons: 1) Nazis, and 2) Wiccan. Need I say more? It is unfortunate that 90 years of history has wiped away thousands of years of history and left hate in its wake.

Swastika - Wikipedia

The swastika or sauwastika (as a character, 卐 or 卍, respectively) is a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon in the cultures of Eurasia. Swastik is used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions.[1][2][3][4] In the Western world, it was a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck until the 1930s, when it became a feature of Nazi symbolism as an emblem of Aryan identity. As a result of World War II and the Holocaust,...

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2019 2:05 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 02:05:56 -0400

Will it include ANTIFA ?

Response by MAJ John Douglas made Aug 21 at 2019 8:46 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:46:12 -0400

Any extremist group regardless of what it is. There are fringe groups on the left too, i guess you just forgot to mention them.

Response by SGT James Hammons made Aug 21 at 2019 9:12 AM

SGT James Hammons — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 09:12:55 -0400

Yes. This iscregulation for the most part. You represent a fighting force that is the envy of the world and although free speech is Constitutional. The Military has standards. Soldiers learn that how they carry themselves is important. If you live off base no issue.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 21 at 2019 11:00 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:00:20 -0400

That's going to be difficult considering one of the more popular bits of white supremacist clothing accessories currently being worn and distributed by hate groups is also associated with a certain important political figure...

Response by SP5 Dennis Dorsey made Aug 21 at 2019 11:51 AM

SP5 Dennis Dorsey — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:51:56 -0400

Short answer.... yes. There should be no place in the military for racist.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Aug 21 at 2019 1:36 PM

SGT James Murphy — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 13:36:59 -0400

In Today's Army it's rather stupid so I would question the ability of anyone who would display this type of thing Today. Now in the old days' I do remember a couple of Viet Nam Tank Pictures with Nazi Flag on them but that was more of a Joke than an ideology.

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Aug 21 at 2019 3:37 PM

SSgt Christopher Brose — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 15:37:04 -0400

You're missing a group.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Aug 21 at 2019 10:02 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 22:02:57 -0400

NAZI and White Supremacy are not the only racist groups in the US and targeting them alone is racist on its own merits. People need to remember hate begets hate and hating on certain groups only empowers the racists.

Response by Col Mike Clanton made Aug 21 at 2019 10:56 PM

Col Mike Clanton — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 22:56:07 -0400

Sure, as long as we include socialist or anti American thought or association, we also have to include racist groups such as La Raza, Black Panthers, Antifa, Muslim Brotherhood, Black Lives Matter, Queer Nation, and hundreds of others, funny that you only pick the two that you did? Maybe you are biased and or Anti American yourself.

Response by SGT Jw Nugent made Aug 21 at 2019 11:19 PM

SGT Jw Nugent — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:19:10 -0400

Yes. Those people cost us 300,000 military personnel during WWII and should not be allowed to exist. The home grown Hitler worshipers Aryan Nations, White Supremacists, and all others of their ilk have only one thing in mind - overthrowing Democracy. Their document are pretty clear on that. eg. Turner Diaries.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Aug 21 at 2019 11:28 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:28:30 -0400

So if you have a Confederate flag and honor your ancestor who served in the Confederate Army, then you are a racist. Is that what you mean?? BTW, Public law 85-245 establishes that Confederate soldiers are of equal status as Union soldiers. I live in the South and have seen a lot of Confederate flags. There is a Confederate graveyard in the city of Jonesboro, Georgia. Do you want the cemetery destroyed and the bones of the Confederate soldiers scattered to the wind?? BTW there was a black battalion in the Civil War which served on both sides of the Civil War. The current trend of destroying all Confederate symbols are the same tactics of the Red Chinese and the Cambodia rebels who killed everyone who wore glasses with the goal of re-writing history. The anti-Confederate flags and statutes are diverting real issues that should be addressed. There was a black county commissioner in Henry County, Georgia who got a gift store closed because they sold small Confederate flags as well as other items at the Nash Farm battlefield. The commissioner claimed that it wasn't a battlefield despite that the US Historical Commission had already certified that it was a battlefield. I'm getting tired of people making an issue out of anything that they think insults them.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Aug 22 at 2019 2:23 AM

LTC James McElreath — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 02:23:01 -0400

When it comes to hate related is looked at in a negative light you quite possibly could be separated for just the affiliation alone. When one joins the service they give up a lot of freedom to do as you wish. You are Uncle Sam's property until you part ways with him/her!
I believe it was asked if the rules for an AD soldier should be equally enforced or looked at in a different light. It would not be right to have a soldier treated any differently than the Guard and Reserve. It has taken this war we are dealing with for the Active Army to look at them as equals. Ps there are Active Guard and Reserve, they are serving due to the needs of their service. There is no longer a place for a soldier being treated any different

Response by Col Mike Clanton made Aug 22 at 2019 8:51 AM

Col Mike Clanton — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 08:51:46 -0400

This guy is nut job!

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Aug 22 at 2019 6:09 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 18:09:34 -0400

Is do the command going to do the same thing with a "Black Lives Matter" display?? I can see it if the service member was a Neo-Nazi or KKK member, then the command should investigate to determine if it was a joke or a serious threat.

Response by LTC Gary Earls made Aug 26 at 2019 10:22 PM

LTC Gary Earls — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:22:20 -0400

Please define where these flags are displayed?? Duty station or barracks??

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Aug 27 at 2019 1:30 PM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:30:02 -0400

A U.S. Army Recruiting Command leader has been suspended for allegedly using the notorious phrase ( "Arbeit Macht Frei [Work Will Set You Free]" ) that hung over the entrance to a World War II Nazi death camp in a memo to encourage recruiters to sign up more recruits. If an investigation reveals that this person is a member of a neo-Nazi organization, hasn't he or she dishonored the sacrifice of U.S. military personnel who fought, were wounded, and/or died in the World War II struggle against the Nazis, and shouldn't he or she be relieved of duty and discharged under "other than honorable" conditions?

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/26/army-recruiting-leader-awaits-judgment-after-using-nazi-death-camp-motto-memo.html?ESRC=eb_190827.nl

Army Recruiting Leader Awaits Judgment After Using Nazi Death Camp Motto in Memo

An Army Recruiting Command leader has been suspended for allegedly using a notorious Nazi phrase in a motivation memo.

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Sep 4 at 2019 11:19 PM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Wed, 04 Sep 2019 23:19:58 -0400

This is exactly how the Corps should respond to such cases:

In June 2018, Pistolis was sentenced before a military court to 28 days confinement, reduction in rank to E-1 and forfeiture of two-thirds pay for one month. He was booted from the Marine Corps in July 2018.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/09/04/the-neo-nazi-boot-inside-one-marines-descent-into-extremism/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Marine%20Corps%20-%20Daily%20News%20Roundup

The neo-Nazi boot: Inside one Marine’s descent into extremism

Battling violent hate threats — from within the Corps.

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Sep 16 at 2019 11:43 AM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:43:17 -0400

All but two of 27 service members have been formally investigated and 18 service members were disciplined or separated from the military.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2019/09/13/27-reports-of-extremist-activity-by-us-service-members-over-the-past-5-years-dod-says/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2009.16.19&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief

27 reports of extremist activity by US service members over the past 5 years, DoD says

Out of those 27 reports, the DoD said all but two had been formally investigated and that 18 service members were disciplined or separated from the military.