Should all Enlisted members come in as E1?

2014-06-13T16:08:14-04:00

I observed this over and over while I was a DS and when I was a recruiter, new enlistees coming in at higher rank because of referrals or a degree. In all honesty having a degree did not guarantee maturity, experience or common sense. They specialize in nothing they are novice in the matters of the Army period. I believe that if we want to save money and get everyone under one career time frame we should all begin at square one and have to achieve those milestones that can only be obtain by paying the piper. There is no advantage here except to the guy with the degree once he is eligible for promotion he will have more points than his peers. I personally was never impressed by the SPC in Basic Training they were as green as the PVT fresh out of high school.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Jun 13 at 2014 4:10 PM

2014-06-13T16:10:48-04:00

I like it that those that have done something can come in at a slightly higher rank. There really isn't much difference in the expectations of a brand new E1 or E3.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-06-13T16:27:51-04:00

I came in as a PFC because of college and there were one or two in my BCT that were SPC because of college. We weren't treated any different than anyone else...there may have been a maturity difference as we were all older then most in our class (I was 21). But I think the ability to get promoted before you ship gives an added incentive to learn and grow before you start your Army adventure.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 4:48 PM

2014-06-13T16:48:03-04:00

I should be a E-2 if my transcripts get sorted out (Problem on the colleges end) I don't think so, those in college should be promoted as them going is at least a sign of some maturity\taking control of their lives.

This current plan gives insensitive for people to improve their lifes

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 7:09 PM

2014-06-13T19:09:21-04:00

I entered the Air Force as an E3. But going through BMT I was an E1 like everyone else. I did not get my stripes until graduating BMT and heading off to Tech School.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-01-16T17:42:03-05:00

In my case, I had 4 years of high school JROTC, coming in as a PFC, and I already knew the ranks of ALL the services, customs and courtesies, drill and ceremonies, the manual of arms, marksmanship, flag etiquette, and land nav. Did I not deserve to go in a higher rank to be a junior leader in boot camp? I turned down the Marines to join the Army because the USMC would only offer E-2 versus E-3.

How many people do you think we'd recruit if the incentive of a higher rank (aka more pay) was gone for those people who went to college, etc. that we currently offer? I think having everyone come in as an E-1 devalues any experience they might already have or the talents they bring to the table which enriches the service as a whole. With the "force shaping" that is currently occurring, soon our recruiters are going to only want to take the top candidates, shouldn't they be able to have something to offer those candidates to ensure they join our team?

Response by 1SG Pete Marcell made Jan 16 at 2015 10:16 PM

2015-01-16T22:16:08-05:00

I came in as an E4 because I had my degree. Honestly it was one of the reasons I decided to enlist. Due to the late '80's draw down I'd given up on entering the Navy or Air Force via OCS. With the Air Force I was 50th on the list as a civilian for OCS. The big draw down hit in '89 and the list was gone. After trying to get in since '87 or '88 IIRC (it was Top Gun - I have to admit!) I finally said, "Screw it, I want to serve!" and decided to enlist in the Army Reserve as an M60A3 tank Crewman. I loved it! Then I started grad school that next Fall. The last big recession was on and no jobs, go back to school, go to drill and pull 3 to 4 annual trainings in the summer. Every unit needs a motivated RTO or Driver right? That next 2.5 years was the best. If I couldn't have come in as an E4, I may not have joined.

Long story short, a degree does not guarantee a person will be able to perform at a higher rank, but NOT having a degree does not mean that one can perform at a lower rank. A degree does show a person's tenacity and organization skills however.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-01-16T22:38:23-05:00

I'm not giving back three grades.

It's not a guarantee, correct, but it is a decent probability. And the promotion form SPC to SGT is not automatic. If they aren't ready yet, don't promote them. If that means being engaged and properly evaluating them, well, that's the job.

Response by SPC Christopher McClaskey made Jan 18 at 2015 8:50 AM

2015-01-18T08:50:49-05:00

Yes and no depends on person i have seen some that came in higher and it didnt go to there heads i got a little rank cause of ROTC

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Jan 18 at 2015 9:07 AM

2015-01-18T09:07:46-05:00

Each situation is different and should be looked at for it's individual positives. Bringing in members at ranks above E-1 can have it's advantages for the individual but also in the right situations also for those around them if their knowledge prior to military life can be enlightening. It seems that individuals benefit from the enhanced rank and it does not appear to be detrimental to the system as a whole.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 18 at 2015 9:25 AM

2015-01-18T09:25:16-05:00

MSG Martin C. SFC Cardenas,

my 2 cents

I agreed with you position for a long time. Then about 92 when I went out to recruiting I started having second thoughts. Then about my 12th year I had an epiphany if you will. That was, what does it really affect? Nothing. They want to pay off loans or now have a family or have been working... some actually have a skill... the Army is suppose to manage talent a little... lets help some folks out with that... even though it may not be related to their MOS. Hey I was a carpenter in HS and my 1SG use to put me to work... I came in as a PVT... but I made SP4 very fast... because of my attitude... and honestly... some other skills I had. Hey... it is what it is.

Then I realized in 94 at Campbell that it did matter... and in a good way. In fact, these soldiers served as a catalyst for some of my PFC and SPC to start becoming continual learners and stop being bumps of the proverbial log. Why? Because "when the points dropped" SPC so-in-so with a degree will get promoted... and I won't... and they knew it.

Now in my current capacity, I work program management and resource management at the Army level, JCIDS process and Total Army (TA) structured. TA is accomplished through the Total Army Analysis process (if your curious be see TR 71-11... and bleach your eyes).

In the scheme of MILPER Funding... on of the 5 large "pots of money" those PV2, PFC and SPC we bring in effect resourcing so little you'd be amazed. As a matter of fact... and some of my brother and sisters out there can confirm... we lose more funding on a given FY through lost ROTC scholarships when a cadet can't commission or they elect not to contract.

Think about it. A cadet going to college on a full scholarship and elects after their second year not to continue. The Army just lost $40k as the average worth of a 4 year scholarship is around $80k per Cadet command website. That is not including a $1500 per yer stipend.

Again... my 2 cents... its not a big deal IRT to funding and IMO... can serve as a catalyst to motivate some of the other soldiers.

Regards

Cam

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Nov 29 at 2016 7:29 AM

2016-11-29T07:29:55-05:00

Understandable argument. The incentive program is awarding former accomplishments in order to get that disciplined person to work for them in the future. Most ACASP and accelerated rank trainees are worth the money, once they get to their unit. They are all knuckle heads with the Joe Flu in Red Phase.