Should any aged service member be allowed to legally drink, at least on base?

SGT Tim. Wilson — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 23:05:47 -0400

If we can send them to a combat zone then why shouldn't they be able to? Also, do bases still allow service members under 21 to buy cigarettes? I know most states are moving to that age requirement.
If that is the case, basically saying your not old enough to decide to do something until your 21, then should we be allowing them to even join before 21? Allow them to live or go to school for a couple years before potentially sending them off to war!
Just wondering what thoughts are on this.
Thanks!

Response by SFC William Farrell made Oct 6 at 2019 11:50 PM

SFC William Farrell — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 23:50:54 -0400

I agree SGT Tim. Wilson. I got back from Vietnam at 19 and could not legally drink in downtown Killeen, Texas.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2019 12:28 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 00:28:52 -0400

Lots of things have arbitrary age limits. Can’t be President until you’re 35.

It really isn’t a big deal. Some rules suck. Deal with them, or when you’re 18, vote to change them. Huh, Another arbitrary age limit..

Response by SP6 Guy Slater made Oct 7 at 2019 12:32 AM

SP6 Guy Slater — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 00:32:35 -0400

Way back when-in 1971, effective Jan 1 1972, the Federal Law was changed giving all 18 year olds their majority. They were now adults, able to own, able to sign contracts, etc. AND able to drink booze. About three years later, the ability to drink was raised to 21, because some 18 year olds are still in High School, and some of them were supplying booze to their underage friends.

That's the background.

What I think is the same as I thought as an 18 year old in Vietnam: If I'm old enough to die for this Country, I also am old enough to Vote for who leads this Country. Carrying that thought to this discussion, If an 18 year old is old enough to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan, or to any other war zone, they are adults and should be afforded adult privilege, be that the consumption of alcohol or tobacco.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2019 12:38 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 00:38:12 -0400

Def not! We have enough alcohol related incidents as it is, giving them that freedom to do it before 21 will double the problems we already have. I get that yes they volunteer to go to the Army and put their lives on the line, but soldiers will be soldiers and too many joes under 21 are irresponsible.

Exhibit A: the lift on the curfew in Korea, it took two and a half weeks for a soldier to screw up.

I'm in Italy and soldiers can drink under 21, and guess how many 173rd guys get DUIs or get involved in an alcohol related incident? I've lost count....and don't get me started on 3BCT out of Bliss lol

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Oct 7 at 2019 4:22 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 04:22:36 -0400

I am retired now, so it doesn't make any difference to share. My personal belief is that the SM is old enough to be deployed at the whim of our government, can vote, can enter into legally binding agreements without a sponsor or guardian, be tried as adult for crimes, is held accountable for their actions, is trusted with hundreds of thousands of dollars of government property - then drinking alcohol should be available to them, along with the responsibility and consequences of drinking. I will not lie and say that I have not willfully not seen underage soldiers consuming alcohol, Let's face a truth, they are going to do it, just like we did when we were underage, and if they do something stupid, then they face the same adverse action as someone over the legal age, "underage drinking" would just be another bullet on the counseling statement, along with whatever other infraction occurred. It all gets lumped into the same UCMJ packet as you cannot prosecute each infraction of the same incident separately. When I spoke to Soldiers about drinking (which was weekly), I told them all the basic stuff regarding drinking - and the consequences of being irresponsible. As long as they were not causing a scene, being disrespectful to the CQ or SDNCO, and kept a low profile while drinking, then I was not going to go out of my way to target them for counseling statements, or put them through ADAPC, or put them on commands radar.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 7 at 2019 8:55 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 08:55:28 -0400

Okay... Real talk...
Over the last 20 years, every single article 15, Courts Martial, Administrative Separation, blotter report, MP station pickup, GOMOR, Letter of Concern, QMP, pre-trial confinement, divorce, broken marriage, abused child, sexual assault and destroyed career I either witnessed, testified at or started paperwork on all had one thing in common. Alcohol. Alcohol is the ONE item most negatively affecting military and personal readiness in the military, bar none...

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 7 at 2019 2:04 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 14:04:37 -0400

Back in the day, MILs could drink at the respective clubs and there was 3.2 beer in the barracks. Off base was whatever the state law said. That's why there was extra rail cars on the trains going north from Great Lakes up to Milwaukee as Wisconsin had 18 year OK at the time. So from my experience, there wasn't much of a problem keeping it on base but regular problems with sailors getting drunk up north and being poured into and out of the trains at 2300 to be back on base by midnight. Lots of Shore Patrol assets out there.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2019 4:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 16:12:42 -0400

I used to be one of the thinkers that "If you're old enough to die for, then you can drink for, your country." That was in my younger days. Having served for 20+ years, from Texas to Honduras, I don't think that way any more. I have seen first hand what happens when young troops get their hands on alcohol both on and off post. It is never pretty. For what ever reason, there is a switch in their head that gets flipped to insane when they are allowed alcohol access. So no, I do not feel Soldiers under the age of 21 should be allowed to drink alcohol. But, then the other side to that coin is that I've seen plenty of Soldiers ABOVE the age of 21 that should never be allowed to drink alcohol ever again.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 7 at 2019 7:09 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 19:09:12 -0400

Times change of course, but we got served everywhere we went, hell I was sitting in bars at 16, and as long as you put your money up and didn’t cause problems no one cared. And drugs were a serious problem in the units I was attached to as well, not talking about just pot. 1975-1979. It’s always available I’m sure, some of the guys coming back from Okinawa had a serious taste for the booze. You trust them with a rifle and a loaded weapon you should trust them to make good decisions regardless of the age. You trust until you can’t.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2019 8:37 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Oct 2019 20:37:20 -0400

They are drinking before they are 21 as is. And it's not st the bars, is boyyles snuck into barracks and tents. Just have leadership be responsible and take care of those who do drink. You are a professional, you shouldn't get sloppy.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Oct 8 at 2019 8:53 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 08:53:34 -0400

No. Zero good can come of it. You can't drink before you are 21 because you are too young and stupid. To your second point I agree with you. Raise the minimum age of enlistment to 21. That would take away a nice chunk of fresh meat though.

Response by PO2 Bill Kuiper made Oct 8 at 2019 9:27 AM

PO2 Bill Kuiper — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 09:27:19 -0400

Nope. Service does not make you exempt. Still a kid that requires boundaries.

Response by 1SG Charles Buzzatto made Oct 8 at 2019 1:22 PM

1SG Charles Buzzatto — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 13:22:27 -0400

Military service should exempt you from that law. If you’re able to go and die on a deployment then you should be allowed to have a cigarette or a beer before you go or just be responsible and act accordingly and realize that you’re in a profession that gives you that benefit and don’t abuse it.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Oct 8 at 2019 3:25 PM

CW3 Harvey K. — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 15:25:36 -0400

I'll stand with Chesty Puller, who wanted to get rid of the pogey bait on the Marine bases, "And feed my Marines on beer."

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Oct 8 at 2019 4:50 PM

SP5 Peter Keane — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 16:50:25 -0400

When I was in, you could drink at 17, buy cigs at 17. You could only drink beer until you were E6, then liquor was allowed. The EM, NCO, and Officers clubs were open 7 days a week. Of course we had the draft, so replacement was just a letter in the mail. I was an E5 20 year old that received permission to live off post, but I wa gonna room with a 26 year old PFC and he was not allowed. (Neither was looking for BAQ or BAS).Just with in the last 2 years DOD has required PX and Commisary to charge local prices for Cigarettes. I haven't had a drink in 31 years, so I really have no dog in the hunt, but a few beers by someone at 20 at the bowling alley is no big deal.

Response by SP5 Joseph Ascanio made Oct 11 at 2019 6:42 AM

SP5 Joseph Ascanio — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 06:42:50 -0400

The way I look at it if you can die for your country then you can drink for them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2020 1:39 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:39:58 -0400

Im for under 21 drinking. Im also for introducing in extream moderation before 18. Teaching kids to drink responsable and what can happen if you don't. Iv seen so many hit 21 and just get hammered all the time and hopefully nothing hapened before they calm down. I know me and most of my friends that were tought responsable drinking by parents or guardians before we hit 21 havent had any issues. Once we hit 21 ya we were excited for our birthday, but didn't get stupid with it. Its like anything in life if you dont get taught a healthy respect for something your more likely to miss use it.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 26 at 2020 2:11 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:11:49 -0400

I was 19 sitting in the E Club at 29 Palms, no one much cared.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2020 2:50 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 02:50:53 -0400

Unpopular opinion, but I think if troops were allowed to smoke cannabis, a lot of your alcohol related incidents would go away completely.

Response by LT Christopher Miller made Sep 27 at 2020 1:36 PM

LT Christopher Miller — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 13:36:59 -0400

In a controlled environment (i.e. onboard ship) I don't see a problem with it.

Response by SGM Gerald Fife made Sep 27 at 2020 3:16 PM

SGM Gerald Fife — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:16:17 -0400

I have been retired now for 25 years. I entered in 1954 when the PX was just a small place like a mini mart today. And at that time if you were not of age and wanted drink beer then you went down an aisle that lead to the 3.2 beer for the underage drinker. Of age you could get 6.0 beer. Maybe we should go back to the "olden days?" Nah, let's just follow the rules of today. As I have before, "when you know the rules of the game then you can play."

Response by Cpl Christopher Carpenter made Sep 27 at 2020 3:54 PM

Cpl Christopher Carpenter — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:54:27 -0400

I remember when I was in I was able to buy Beer at 18 on base. I could not buy hard alcohol unless I was 21. That was 20ish years ago though

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 27 at 2020 10:13 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 22:13:58 -0400

If they can die they should be able to drink. As a military dependent growing up in the Philippines we were allowed to go to bars at 14.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Sep 28 at 2020 6:33 AM

SPC John Tacetta — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:33:59 -0400

Work hard, play hard! I'm definitely of the mind that if you're old enough to serve, then you're old enough to be served.

Face it: if an 18 year old wants to drink, they will. Whether they're stationed in a country with a lower drinking age or stateside, the restriction just pushes them off base to indulge themselves. When I was in you literally got classes on responsible drinking and how to keep yourself legal: count those drinks, me hearties, and keep your wingman sober(ish). The leadership was keen on providing support and you could always call the CQ or your NCO if you felt you were just too far gone. You might catch some flak, but at least they were willing to catch you. Step up senior NCOs!

Hey, I get it. alcohol can be a real problem for some. Nobody likes to deal with a belligerent drunk and cleaning up after them is a chore. But there's no age limit on being a drunk: you are, or you are not.

As I've seen elsewhere in this post, if you feel that a person can't be trusted with a drink, then you certainly should feel that they can't be trusted with ordnance. Hey, now that I think about it, maybe that's why we only got 3 rounds while on guard duty. Go figure.

Response by MSgt Nathan Krawitz made Sep 28 at 2020 2:02 PM

MSgt Nathan Krawitz — Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:02:06 -0400

When different states had different laws, if the base was located in a state with a higher age, but within so many miles of the other state, the on base drinking age reflected the lower state. This was done to discourage DUI, not some maturity guidelines.

These restrictions exist independent of military policy. Using the "old enough to die for our country" argument, a civilian can say if they're old enough to enter into a contract, they shouldn't be restricted on smoking or drinking age.