Should Cadets be treated as Commissioned Officers?

2017-04-21T00:22:11-04:00

I had a newer Private in my unit pose this question to me at my last drill weekend. In context, this Private was walking outside the Company area and saluted a cadet who did not return the salute. I have minimal experience dealing with Cadets, and informed him that I would get a proper answer for him. To my understanding they can be saluted as a sign of respect, but it isn't required yet.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 12:29 AM

2017-04-21T00:29:42-04:00

I think you are correct. From my understanding, it is "encouraged" to treat them as a commissioned officer, even though they are not (yet). That is in reference to rendering a salute, addressing as Sir/Ma'am or title and name, etc.

Regardless, if someone renders a salute, you return it. It is a sign of respect and a formal greeting. Sounds like the Cadet was either lost in the sauce or an asshat.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 12:33 AM

2017-04-21T00:33:28-04:00

A similar question was posted and a response was provided from the regulations: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/are-enlisted-soldiers-required-to-salute-an-officer-cadet

Answer provided by CSM Mike Maynard
1) AR 600-25 states salutes are exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted - Cadets are neither officers or enlisted
2) If Cadets are authorized salutes, why would they have a "First Salute" ceremony at their commissioning?
3) AR 600-20 states Cadets will be referred to as Mister, Miss or Cadet
4) Cadets are not paid E5 pay, they are given a monthly stipend

However, there is another aspect to this. According to the ROTC website some cadets will serve as PL's with a army unit during the summer to gain hands on experience. Reference: http://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/training/cadet-leader-training.aspx. As it states cadets will serve "lieutenant-level leadership positions in active-duty units." In this scenario the cadet is in a officer billet and I would assume the cadet would be treated as such.

If only I could get an age waiver for ROTC, ahh lost opportunity.

Are enlisted Soldiers required to salute an Officer cadet? | RallyPoint

AR 600-25, 1-5 states who is entitled to a salute. No where in this does it say cadet (who has not received his commission).

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 21 at 2017 12:34 AM

2017-04-21T00:34:03-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member The answer is in 600-20, but this article summarizes it pretty succinctly...
https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/

Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute

Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.

Response by SFC George Smith made Apr 21 at 2017 12:52 AM

2017-04-21T00:52:25-04:00

NO ... they have Not Yet earned the Right or the Privileges... they still have the opportunity to BOLO
When We were training or had to deal with them ... in the Distant past... they were referred as Cadet... and treated as Sgt. E-5's...

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made Apr 21 at 2017 6:13 AM

2017-04-21T06:13:50-04:00

We had a cadet spend a few weeks with us in a Charlie Med one summer. She said we had to salute her. One of my buddies rattled off the regulation you posted above. Then said, "no miss, we do not have to salute you, you haven't commissioned yet, you kind of aren't actually IN the army yet".
The same cadet was quite butthurt and kept terrorizing the lower enlisted for salutes. So we just started to call her "dot" referring to her "rank".

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 7:06 AM

2017-04-21T07:06:15-04:00

Interesting question. The Army Command Policy states that in the case of the commander being incapacitated, the next senior regularly assigned Army Soldier takes command. It further provides the definition: "Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty"
So when that cadet takes command, I guess there is still no salute?

Response by SSgt Ryan Sylvester made Apr 21 at 2017 7:27 AM

2017-04-21T07:27:23-04:00

No. They haven't been commissioned yet, therefore, should not be treated as a commissioned officer. That said, you should be treating them with the same courtesy afforded to all those in uniform, and if they are currently serving in a unit's billet, treat them with the courtesy of that billet. But they are basically the military version of an intern.

Response by TSgt Thomas Monaghan made Apr 21 at 2017 8:15 AM

2017-04-21T08:15:39-04:00

Absolutely not

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 21 at 2017 9:22 AM

2017-04-21T09:22:41-04:00

To the best of my knowledge ....you can lawfully salute anyone..... even other privates..... but the true question is...."Is it a good idea ?".... by saluting everyone you draw attention to yourself for acting outside the norm..... and some, particularly officers.... might feel slighted....a loss of respect they feel is their due..... it could impact their opinion of you and even possibly even their treatment of you.... I would keep my conduct including saluting within the bounds of convention.... as to the specific scenario,,,,I think the cadet should have returned the salute but I understand his probable confusion.....when I first got my commission....I went to the student barracks to visit friends....they all yelled "ATTENTION".....I turned around to see who came in....
as a private.....I once accidentally saluted a CSM.... he just returned the salute and kept on walking..... no harm no foul

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 9:31 AM

2017-04-21T09:31:20-04:00

A cadet isn't a soldier, they're a college student in a uniform.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 9:46 AM

2017-04-21T09:46:13-04:00

Cadets should be seen not heard. They are basically there just to learn. They should never be put in a position of leadership over Soldiers. I know some commands want them to be treated as officers but I'm sorry they haven't earned anything yet.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 9:47 AM

2017-04-21T09:47:08-04:00

Cadets are not warranted the Hand Salute. Don't spoil them too quickly.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 10:12 AM

2017-04-21T10:12:17-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Take a few things into consideration, likely this Cadet is going to stay in your unit after commissioning. Some of the benefits of the SMP program, if that is the case building a positive relationship early on will be much easier than hazing the poor sap then magically switching treatment after he pins on gold bars. Most of the advice above is active duty mentality which cadets show up for a week or two and are gone never to be seen again. That kind of mentality can burn you in the reserve component when three years down the road you find the cadet you gave a hard time too is now your rater, and five years down the road is your commander. Cadets should be treated with respect and you should establish a mentor training relationship early he'll be a better cadet because of it and certainly a better officer. Take the moral high road and do your job the right way. Saluting is required but only in ROTC regulations, which have no enforcement outside of ROTC. I gave policy during my command to stand at attention when addressing but wait until they commissioned before rendering salutes.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 1:38 PM

2017-04-21T13:38:28-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member when I shadowed an LT as a cadet I was told by the company commander that they could call me Sir, Cadet Maurelli, or Mr. Maurelli. They were not mandated to salute me. They could if they wanted, but I had to basically earn it. Whatever you do, do not call them a third LT. No idea where that came from but I was briefed on that by Cadet Command.

As far as duties assigned by their commanding officer cadets are supposed to be assigned officer level tasks to develop them for when they become commissioned.

Depending on what program they are in, etc. if they get any different pay.

Response by SPC Steve Long made Apr 23 at 2017 8:33 PM

2017-04-23T20:33:39-04:00

I am thinking alot of this might depend on the Local SOP for the units involve. I notice SMP program being brought up. I participated in this program and became a cadet in my reserve unit. The division commander let it be know all cadets would be treated as an officer. I did receive salutes and returned them. My position at that unit however was as the company XO due to shortages in commisioned officers at that time. It was a training unit and when we rotated to Fort Benning for 2 weeks to replace the Training unit on Sand Hill and I have to say I learned quickly why we didnt see our CO or XO that often when I was in Basic.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Apr 23 at 2017 8:42 PM

2017-04-23T20:42:09-04:00

Sure, just as soon as they pin on those gold bars. Not a moment sooner. They don't deserve scorn or bad treatment either though. They are student observers.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 23 at 2017 8:50 PM

2017-04-23T20:50:54-04:00

They should be treated for what they are. When I was in the position, and had Cadets in my unit, I instructed the lower enlisted to call them "Sir" because someday they would be: but at the same time I told the Cadets even though they were being called "Sir", don't let it go to their head as they were nothing by a glorified E5 in training. This was the time for them to shut up and learn. If one was put in a LT slot, then he/she better learn and take his/her cues from the PS. Never really had too many problems.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2017 10:43 PM

2017-04-23T22:43:57-04:00

When I was at Fort Gordon, we had a Cadet from USMA with us for a couple of weeks. The first time I saw him, I did salute him and he returned it. Then he explained the regulations to me. Had a great time working with him. I was the Orderly Room NCO and he was shadowing the XO. A couple of other NCOs and I who had established rapport with him did jokingly, and out of earshot of junior ranking individuals, call him a "cadidiot." He was cool with it, as he knew we were having some good natured fun and not seriously trying to disrespect him. I think we taught him a thing or two that helped him along the way, but I know he taught us a lot. It was a wonderful experience that I'll never forget.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Apr 24 at 2017 1:07 AM

2017-04-24T01:07:43-04:00

No, they shouldn't even be treated like human beings at all until they learn to be human beings.
Giving respect to those who haven't earned it creates the worst type of evil. An asshole with power that has never learned what it means to be less than. That kind will never be anything but a burden to those around above and below them. In private business I call them "Company Killers." That is all they are good for.
Upper management will back them up because they are part of the management structure.
They will destroy the moral of those in their charge because they do not understand them. Having never learned to crawl they cannot learn to walk.

Response by MIDN 2/C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2017 9:28 AM

2017-04-24T09:28:57-04:00

Short answer, no.
Long answer, still no, but... it's absolutely not expected for us to be treated as commissioned officers because we are not commissioned officers. However, in my experiences it's not uncommon for enlisted on Naval Bases to mistake us for officers and salute us. It happens quite frequently due to the golden nametag on NWUs and somewhat officer-looking combination cover, and some enlisted just haven't interacted with us before. If it's in passing we're told to just render it back out of respect. If it's someone I'll be talking to for whatever reason, I'll respectfully let them know they are not required to. Some enlisted choose to call us sir/ma'am, but that's their choice. Most Midshipman (and Cadets) understand that we do technically outrank them but that is as I called it, a technicality. If someone among our ranks decided to enforce that, they're a minority and would be destroyed by their peers or upper-class.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Apr 24 at 2017 9:47 AM

2017-04-24T09:47:24-04:00

No and if that isn't clear enough...NO. They are not commissioned yet and have not taken the commissioning oath. However, if the courtesy is rendered then the cadet should render the proper courtesies back. NCO's need to respect the cadets as they are potential officers and in this case probably in the effected unit. NCO's should also come along side of them and train and mentor these cadets and mold them into the officers they will need to be. The private wasn't wrong but it is not required. At the academies and in ROTC Contracts they are E-4s or E-5s only as a pay scale...they do not hold the rank. They are not in the service yet and therefore are in a sort of Purgatory (not enlisted but not officer either) until commissioning.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Apr 24 at 2017 11:35 AM

2017-04-24T11:35:29-04:00

I always treated them as a NCO no salute, no sir, just cadet then name.

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Apr 24 at 2017 2:55 PM

2017-04-24T14:55:36-04:00

I'll tell you I've seen all types of cadets come through and I always treated them with respect. It helped I had read starship troopers as a young marine ( it was on the commandants recommended reading list. ) it explained the position and authorities of a cadet. It was amazingly accurate in its description. Although since the author was a graduate of the USNA I shouldn't have been so surprised. But back to my point. I treated them with respect and made sure my soldiers and marines did as well. When they came in demanding it and acting entitled usually just a quiet word with the first sergeant was enough to quash it. But yes they do outrank you if your enlisted.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Apr 24 at 2017 3:46 PM

2017-04-24T15:46:36-04:00

I've said in other posts regarding this, I'll say it again. I got rare privilege to watch my hard-core grunt PSG light up one of these cadets--whose head must have been filled with images of being the next General Patton--when he insisted he be saluted. No commission, no salute. The kid settled down after that.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Apr 24 at 2017 6:24 PM

2017-04-24T18:24:19-04:00

The ONLY Cadet who EARNED the Right to be Saluted prior to Commissioning was Calvin Pear Titus.
He was then appointed to West Point as a result of his award of the Congressional Medal of Honor.
He joined the 14th Infantry Regiment in April 1899, serving in the Philippines and China. He Retired as a LTC in 1930.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-04-24T19:42:52-04:00

No, especially before commissioning. I've had the chance to work with a couple ROTC events as a Drill Sergeant where the ROTC Commissioned staff warned us about how cocky they were because they finished a year of the program. They simply told us "These guys are yours, have fun." This was my first direct experience with Cadets but it didn't take long to see that the ones who weren't prior service were on the same level if not behind privates in BCT. Granted a 2nd LT isn't going to come in knowing everything but by then he/she has went through more to earn the right to be treated as such. This summer I will be conducting Cadet Basic Camp. They want us to take a more active role than previous summers so it should be interesting.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Apr 24 at 2017 10:57 PM

2017-04-24T22:57:20-04:00

I looked at an Air FOrce Manual and it reads about like the Army Regulation.

Response by SFC Gerald Simons made Apr 25 at 2017 9:19 AM

2017-04-25T09:19:39-04:00

No salute required. They have not earned that honor until they graduate and receive their commission.

Response by COL David Turk made Apr 26 at 2017 2:02 PM

2017-04-26T14:02:13-04:00

Two comments; ROTC cadets render a salute within the ROTC organization; e.g., a ROTC Sargent would salute an ROTC Major. We did not expect a salute from active duty or reserve enlisted. Second, I thought I read somewhere that academy attendees are not "cadets". Then again, it's been so long, that could have referenced something else.

On a related topic, as an officer, how do you handle a salute from private security personnel when entering a military base, post, etc.? I do not return the salute, but do acknowledge and thank the individual.

Response by PO1 Richard Cormier made Apr 27 at 2017 1:23 PM

2017-04-27T13:23:17-04:00

I ran into this problem as a young E4 (PO3). I happened to be stationed at the old Corry Station for school and had to go to P'Cola airbase for something. I happened to cross a group under training and caught the Gunny training them privately. I apologized for not know the standard and asked what device if any I should render a salute for. He explained (in perfect Marine jargon) that if ANY of these ****** did NOT salute a Petty Officer or above, he would have their ass. I thanked him, and informed him that that was not the case, I was just ensuring I followed Protocol.

That was 1978. Things may have change for the newer, sweeter, kinder, .... military. ( I still believe wall-to-wall counseling is sometimes needed to get a mixed up kid on the straight and narrow.)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 1:51 PM

2017-04-27T13:51:44-04:00

A Cadet is an officer in training; they are NOT E5s, SGTs, or "Dots." (Though we do or did call them ca-dots.)
Normally, your chain of command will tell you the rules of engagement with Cadets. I'm pretty sure it's encouraged to treat them as Officers.
Despite the answer below, they have earned rights and privileges. They are subject to UCMJ and the same standards all Soldiers are held to (uniform, height, weight, APFT, etc). Once they sign their commitment, they outrank you. When in uniform and performing such, like CTLT, they are treated as officers. CTLT is a chance to see or get a taste of what it's going to be like once commissioned and responsible for Soldiers and NCOs...up until then, they've only been trying to lead their peers. Cadets also leave CTLT with a type of OER.
As a Cadet I was treated as an officer during CTLT. The CO CDR I shadowed had me in a PL position for the 3 weeks, directed the Soldiers to call me Cadet Habina or ma'am, and render a salute. Though it was a long time ago, I remember the impression. These Soldiers were the same age as I, but we were not peers. They treated me professionally.
The Cadet may have been told something different. He or she may have been startled to receive the salute...like the deer in the head light look new PVTs give officers when they see one for the first time and they forget what they were supposed to do at first. Just correct the Cadet like you would your new Soldier.

Response by CPT Rd VanOrsdale made Apr 29 at 2017 1:34 PM

2017-04-29T13:34:09-04:00

As a USMA Cadet on AOT/CTLT in 1976, I was a Platoon Leader in I/3/2ACR. The soldiers in my platoon, as well as the soldiers in the other units in the squadron all called me "Sir" and all saluted me and "rendered the cheerful greeting." (All salutes were returned and the return greeting rendered as well!!) Back then, as it was explained to me, technically, USMA Cadets ranked between Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers and, accordingly, were entitled to a salute. I never pressed the subject with my troops, but no soldier failed to render the greeting and salute. I think when DOPMA was passed, the rules changed, but, by then, I was Commissioned and it was all water under the bridge.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2017 2:15 PM

2017-04-29T14:15:42-04:00

No. Treating them as commissioned officers will give you a bad product. The more officers relate to enlisted the better.

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made May 1 at 2017 12:17 AM

2017-05-01T00:17:12-04:00

Had one attached to my guard unit in Kansas. He was not saluted or called Sir. We called him Spot.

Response by PO1 Christopher Gómez made May 4 at 2017 8:38 AM

2017-05-04T08:38:31-04:00

I can only speak for the Navy but it is not required as they are not commissioned yet.

When I was on the ship, we took on some Middies and took them out to sea so they could see how the real Navy works. One of them passed me topside and I didn't salute so he stopped me. He demanded a salute so I looked at his collar and said "you are a first year Middle right?" He replied in the affirmative so I told him "look me up when you graduate in 3 years and get your commission then I'll give you your salute" and left him there with his mouth hanging open.

I don't usually respect people who demand it unless they have earned it or I am required to by regs.

Response by SSG Brian G. made May 6 at 2017 2:04 AM

2017-05-06T02:04:27-04:00

No, a cadet has not been commissioned. Meaning that until they graduate OCS they are just another troop and deserve the same recognition that any other troop gets. Once they get those Lieutenant bars pinned on then you can salute them by regulation. Until then? No.

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made May 9 at 2017 8:35 AM

2017-05-09T08:35:25-04:00

In my 22 years of Service I never treated a cadet as an officer. I addressed them as "cadet" and a forced them to address them by my rank. Fortunately in the area I worked I had very few interactions with AF Cadets, the only incident I can remember was an Army ROTC cadet demanded I "salute" him. I was a Master Sergeant at the time. Needless to say.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made May 11 at 2017 8:41 AM

2017-05-11T08:41:04-04:00

No they should be treated a Cadet until they get their commission.
SSG MARK FRANZEN
USA VET

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 11 at 2017 12:07 PM

2017-05-11T12:07:39-04:00

The Cadet was ill mannered or uneducated in not returning the salute. A salute, even among service members of the same grade, in not improper and should be returned. When I was an upper-class ROTC Cadet, my military pay grade in the USAF Reserve was E-1. I didn't require a salute from anybody. Within the Cadet Wing, we observed military customs and courtesies with Cadet enlisted personnel saluting Cadet officers, etc. We all saluted officers of any service. Services may have specific regs that address this issue. I'll leave that to active duty RP members.

Response by SP5 Pat Hughes made May 11 at 2017 2:42 PM

2017-05-11T14:42:04-04:00

Absolutely not, they are not commissioned until they graduate from West Point.
Can you imagine saluting a first year pleb.
The are paid as a E5. They are not officers

Response by LTC John Czarnecki made May 12 at 2017 12:38 PM

2017-05-12T12:38:04-04:00

Cadets are not commissioned officers, and do not yet rate salutes from enlisted personnel; however those same enlisted personnel may render the courtesy if they so desire, but as I recall, they are not required to do so.

Should a cadet decide to insist on being saluted, I'd say the day is looming close that a nice "come to Jesus" meeting is in order. Maybe some good old Off the Wall Counseling.

Response by PO2 Kevin Parker made May 12 at 2017 10:13 PM

2017-05-12T22:13:05-04:00

When I was still in and a fairly new PO2, I questioned why a Midshipman saluted me! I was told by a Chief that they salute E-5 and above when they are attached to Squadrons. Most of the time we had Plebs that were attached to us in the summer time. I don't know if that's why they did it or not. It sure caught me off guard.

Response by LtCol William Bentley made May 13 at 2017 11:48 PM

2017-05-13T23:48:56-04:00

Well, by law a cadet or midshipman formally enrolled in Senior ROTC (we're not talking about JROTC at high schools, nor any of the US Federal Service Academies) is a member of a Reserve Component of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, because they signed a military contract that gives them military standing. It also gives them the ability to serve on active duty orders (technically, active duty for training) when required for training events, typically during the summers between academic years, for officer candidate's school, jump school, "MARTRAMID," and a dozen more for each Service's SROTC programs. It also allows the US Govt to keep a handle on them, track them, categorize them into the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) of their Service as "Untrained Manpower," provide them with certain subsidies and benefits (and an official military ID card), and provides a mechanism to legally compel "payback" at certain points, whether that is $$$ reimbursement to the US Govt, or service as an enlisted or officer of varying lengths based on the length of their SROTC training, their Service commitments, etc.

(It also, technically, allows the US Govt to involuntarily mobilize any IRR member in the event of war or national emergency: this includes SROTC cadets and midshipmen. Of course, the reality is that this hasn't happened since WWII, and even then, what happened is the more senior SROTC in their last year or two were accelerated to a commission and off they went. And the following classes were accelerated as well, to get them off to the war, as well, via a truncated training program. And, more than a few of those SROTC simply dropped out of college and either enlisted or were commissioned directly via another commissioning source. But it COULD happen...it would be one of the last steps in mobilizing our Nation's manpower before recalling the Category II and Category III retirees, and then opening up the draft...so it would be very serious to actually use their SROTC contracts (and thus commitments to serve AND obligations to perform those duties that may be necessary...))

However, they only have military "standing" when they are actually in that active duty status. SROTC members cannot perform Inactive Duty for Training (IDT), also known variously as "weekend drills," "drills," "IDT," "musters," "TPU," "MTU," and other terms and acronyms. Thus, a SROTC cadet or midshipman is neither subject to the UCMJ, nor empowered to exercise authority under the UCMJ, unless they are formally under active duty for training orders, which includes the days spent in travel to and from, because all active duty is ALWAYS counted in full 24 hour calendar days.

With this being said, the private's question is a good one: should cadets be saluted?

I was a 4-year NROTC scholarship midshipman, and I don't recall being instructed in this while I was there. Although I might have forgotten over the last 30-ish years...I also don't recall being instructed in this when I was in Marine Corps boot camp several years before I went to NROTC. Here is what I DO recall:

1. In boot camp, we were taught that it was better to salute someone who didn't technically rate a salute than screw it up and fail to salute someone who did. Thus, Navy chiefs often get saluted because their collar emblems are shiny and bizarre looking to a young Marine...so salute, and either they salute back and carry on, or they stop you and correct you. Either way, you are good to go. The same applies to foreign military personnel who often have completely unrecognizable (to US military) rank insignia, and even to civilian dignitaries like the Governor of a State, or a Congressman, or a Mayor, etc. Better salute than show disrespect.

2. In boot camp, I specifically remember one question on this topic, and even the answer given by Drill Instructor Sergeant Barela: "Yes, it is completely appropriate to salute a pretty girl. But if you salute, you will do it correctly, with the proper greeting of the day, and will not screw it up, make a face, catcall, or any other disrespectful thing to either her or the Marine Corps, because if I see you do this I will personally blow you out of the water."

But back to the situation of the Private and the Cadet.

1. Agreed, a Private is not required by law or policy to salute a SROTC midshipman or cadet, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HOLD A COMMISSION, OR A WARRANT, AND ARE NOT THEREFORE "OFFICERS" WHO RATE A SALUTE.

2. But, it would be a mark of respect, and proper training in customs and courtesies, to render a salute to any midshipman or cadet.

Why? Simple, just as the private is quite aware of their status on the lower end of the pay scale, the SROTC is also aware (at least dimly...) of their lowly status...but, unlike the private who does have military status while on active duty and IDT drills, even if the SROTC is on active duty right then and there they do NOT have the status of an officer. Their status is somewhere between E-1 and O-1, and has remained there since about 1910 or so when Congress finally abolished the last rank structure that included "Midshipman or Cadets." But this doesn't excuse either the Private or the Cadet from emulating their betters and elders, and practicing the proper courtesies, down to the proper greeting of the day.

How would it look if the Private looked the Cadet in the eye as he walked past, and told the Cadet, "You are not an officer, so I don't have to salute you."

By failing to salute, that is the impression, if not the actual facts, of the situation.

Perhaps a true statement, but NOT what we expect of our next generation of leaders and our current generation of junior servicemembers as they wear their uniforms, follow the UCMJ, and learn the proper customs and courtesies of the Service.

Here are two more reasons the Private should salute the Cadet:

1. Someday, possibly quite soon, the Private could work for the Cadet...once the Cadet is commissioned. That might present...awkward...situations down the road. Best to manage the situation now rather than later!

2. The Cadet might actually be getting commissioned on that date, that very day. In which case, because they haven't refused their commission before midnight of that day, THEN BY LAW THE COMMISSION IS NOW CONSIDERED TO BE IN FORCE AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CADET IS IN UNIFORM, SLEEPING, ETC., THEY ARE AN OFFICER OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA as of 0001 of the date of commission. Officers don't HAVE to take the Oath to make their Commission effective. In fact, even if they NEVER took the Oath of Office, unless they took affirmative action to refuse their commission before it became effective (at midnight on the day of appointment by the President), the absence of the Oath doesn't mean the absence of authority under the law with the commission. While most officers are commissioned with a ceremony, this, also, is not a requirement. So, the Cadet might be walking to his own commissioning ceremony, and thus already be an officer, who rates a salute.

BOTTOM LINE: WHEN IN DOUBT, RENDER A PROPER SALUTE AND GREETING OF THE DAY. WHICH IS THE SAME THING AS, "BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY."

Bonus material: what happens when a reserve enlisted servicemember is NOT in a duty status? I.e., they are not on active duty orders of any sort, nor are they in a bonafide IDT status? Are they allowed/authorized to wear their uniform? Yes, in many situations that is authorized. But, since they are not subject to the UCMJ at that exact moment in time, if they fail to render a salute even to a "real" officer, say a lieutenant, are they wrong? Certainly, they violated the customs and courtesies of their Service...but they did NOT violate the UCMJ because they were not subject to the UCMJ. They ARE still subject to a variety of unpleasant administrative measures, up to and including discharge from the service, however...

So, carry the decimal forward a bit on that nugget, and ask yourself what happens if a Cadet/Midshipman, who is not in any duty status, is wearing their uniform, and fails to render a salute to an officer, or fails to return a salute from any enlisted servicemember (whether in a duty status or not)? Hmm...still not subject to the UCMJ, so there won't be any disciplinary measures. What might happen instead? Well, the SROTC has its own methods of policing up, so whatever happens won't likely be pleasant and may result in being terminated from the program involuntarily, mandatory payback of a huge amount of $$$ of tuition, administrative discharge from the military completely, and perhaps even some "bad paper" that follows you around and makes your life a living hell. Or, perhaps just a "stiff talking-to." Or perhaps, nothing at all. In which case, our young Cadet has learned nothing and might end up a crappy young officer without the proper grounding in customs and courtesies...

Response by PO2 Sam Tkach made May 15 at 2017 3:11 PM

2017-05-15T15:11:14-04:00

Even though, cadets are not officers and they are not required to be saluted, in my opinion, this private did the right thing, as our tradition says, "when in doubt, salute." But this experience, gives you an opportunity to educate your privates more about ranks.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2017 6:55 PM

2017-05-15T18:55:08-04:00

No, it is not required for them to render a salute back to the NCO nor is it required of the NCO to salute the cadet. But both can be done as a courtesy. The cadet is required to salute an officer, but the officer is not required but can return the salute out of courtesy.

Most, if not all cadets are not subject to UCMJ until they are commissioned. They technically are civilians. Most when they contract under their commissioning source take the oath of enlistment, not their oath of office. If they fail to comission, they can be called to active duty as most likely an E-3, but can vary depending on their contract and college experience.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2017 2:02 PM

2017-05-18T14:02:58-04:00

To all the enlisted members shouting "NO!" Remember; you are training that 'latent' officer with ALL of your actions and your attitude towards them.

True, they are E5s with no UCMJ authority. Also consider that they are given tasks and responsiblities by someone who does have the authority. They are faced with responsibilities and no authority, which is a very difficult spot.

In my opinion, treat them like the officer you expect them to become.

Response by SPC James Marshall made May 18 at 2017 6:45 PM

2017-05-18T18:45:13-04:00

When training Cadets at Ft. Knox we where training them and we did not have to salute them because that have not become comesioned officers yet.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made May 22 at 2017 2:15 PM

2017-05-22T14:15:56-04:00

Short answer is no salutes are not required to be rendered to a cadet. They on the other hand are required to salute officers and warrant officers in addition to their own hierarchy. Additionally cadets are expected to stand a parade rest when addressing NCOs. They're at roughly the same level as a private until they get commissioned.

Response by Capt Miguel Reid made May 25 at 2017 2:37 PM

2017-05-25T14:37:41-04:00

That person is not duly and properly sworn in as an officer! That is done upon completion of study and obligations- that is why they are ordered to serve as enlisted if obligations are not me. As being both enlisted then the officer rank that person doesn't even rate a salute.

Think about it that same person had to salute me as a 2nd LT, so what does that tell you. So ask the person that simple question being the lowest O rank to CWO.

I always abhor those green to the military telling those in how it is done. So drop the logic on the idiot, and ask them to answer!

Do let me know the outcome- cause I see cadet as still dreaming of being in the military and serving ones country, and a degree did not make me a better or smart leader. How I treat people did, and that person is off to a crappy start. Hell show them my response!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2017 11:49 AM

2017-05-29T11:49:25-04:00

There are a couple of cadets in my platoon, they tell me that you may address them by their last name or sir/ma'am. And salute is optional

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made May 29 at 2017 9:27 PM

2017-05-29T21:27:56-04:00

No! In my last years before retiring from the Army Reserve, I worked ROTC Advanced Camps and West Point Cadet Basic (Beast Barracks). As "Top" I got lots of respect from them but they were always "Cadet". I did give a few their first salutes at commissioning and collected a silver dollar. Upon retirement as a MSG at age 60, I reverted to my highest rank held years before as a 1LT and then I got the salutes as probably the oldest 1LT in uniform - hahaha!

PS: E-8's make more than 0-2's so it took me two years applying to the Army Corrections Board to get me retired as an officer and paid as a MSG so my buddies call me the only Master First Lieutenant in the US Army. I still serve as a bugler with the USAF Honor Guard for Maine and still have both sets of dress 'blues" and am authorized to wear either. My Vietnam era 1LT uniform is 100% heavy wool so in the winter when I have to stand in the snow in a cemetery, I'm an officer and in summer, I'm a cool MSG in my more modern polyester "blues". You can imagine the looks I get from those who have seen me in both uniforms.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made May 31 at 2017 3:29 PM

2017-05-31T15:29:25-04:00

As a former NCO. It's was my job to train the force. Lead by example. Saluting a cadet will not take all day. Referring to them as Sir or ma'am also would not kill me. These will be future leaders. Treat them as so. Because your son or daughter may have to salute them one day.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jun 1 at 2017 4:24 PM

2017-06-01T16:24:48-04:00

As a SSG I had the opportunity to see many cadets come through, I gave them the respect of a 3rd LT. We saluted them and treated them with the same disrespect we gave any other LT. If one refused to salute back, I am sure he would have had many closed-door conversations on respect. He would have saluted gladly within 8 hours. It is all about training and respect each other. Not necessarily regulations.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2017 4:30 PM

2017-06-01T16:30:01-04:00

It has been a long time since I was an officer candidate, not a cadet in the context of, I am assuming, an Academy cadet. While we were treated with courtesy and saluted as officers would be (in no small part owing to our headgear being officer style, though with shoulder boards), we had no delusions of grandeur and we all knew we were regarded as glorified E-5s. I think everyone deserves to be treated with respect, regardless of rank and status, but active personnel did not and, in my view in most instances, should not regard the cadets as true officers. Only if specified by higher authority as part of a formal structure and then with defined limits.

Response by MSgt Roger Lalik made Jun 1 at 2017 5:27 PM

2017-06-01T17:27:33-04:00

Response by PO2 Richard Blakey made Jun 2 at 2017 12:20 PM

2017-06-02T12:20:47-04:00

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Jun 4 at 2017 5:49 AM

2017-06-04T05:49:25-04:00

Not just "No," but HELL to the NO!!! They have not graduated yet, ergo have NOT actually been commissioned yet, ergo no salute!! Wait your turn, bide your proper time, and earn it, damn it!!

Response by SPC Brent Melton made Jun 4 at 2017 9:13 AM

2017-06-04T09:13:55-04:00

We had Cadets a few times in our AO. We were told/ordered to salute them like officers. Most everyone didn't. We still treated them respect and dignity just like anyone else though. The cadets we got were very level headed and weren't bad to be around at all.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2017 1:40 PM

2017-06-04T13:40:16-04:00

No. Although they are shadowing Commissioned Officers as Cadets, that doesn't change their authority. They aren't Commissioned Officers yet, so they shouldn't be treated as such.

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made Jun 4 at 2017 4:33 PM

2017-06-04T16:33:58-04:00

When we were training with them yes. But when I was just offering support for their own training, I would show them respect but not salute them. I would have to say it was the situation. In the instances that I would be covering their missions I was not part of their mission and they all had rotating rolls of leadership some even playing parts as enlisted. I was not there to take orders from them they had to take my orders.

Response by GySgt Richard Morrison made Jun 10 at 2017 1:11 AM

2017-06-10T01:11:46-04:00

If they ain't commissioned Officers they don't get a salute. Semper Fi. GySgt USMC (Ret) '65-'85.

Response by LtCol George Carlson made Jun 10 at 2017 2:03 AM

2017-06-10T02:03:59-04:00

As asked, the simple answer is NO. But I can't miss the opportunity for one "sea story." I was MOI for an NROTC Unit and my drill team was at a drill competition. One of our competitors was from Texas A&M and one of their cadet staff was a Marine option "cadet" -- actually a midshipman, but it is A&M. At one point, this cadet (cadet major) walked past me and didn't salute. I didn't want to make an issue of it at a drill meet, but my AMOI (GySgt) saw it and I think landed both feet in the cadet's chest and managed on the way to the ground to explain fully why a cadet major and a REAL major were not the same thing -- as only a Marine DI can do.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 6:20 AM

2017-06-10T06:20:44-04:00

ABSOLUTELY NO!
A cadet doesn't have a commissioned nor any of the responsibilities and oath that goes with it. So NO!

Response by Cadet 3rd Class Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2017 12:26 PM

2017-06-10T12:26:25-04:00

A friend and fellow Cadet of mine recently was on Wright-Patterson in his blues and was saluted by a MSGT, we always have been instructed to salute back in respect and let them know it isn't needed

Response by LCDR Glenn Adwell made Jun 11 at 2017 2:06 AM

2017-06-11T02:06:10-04:00

No. EOS.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2017 7:22 AM

2017-06-14T07:22:35-04:00

It depends on the situation. If the cadet is filling in an officer position i.e. platoon leader in your unit. The answer is yes. If the cadet is kind of hanging out not really. However your chain of command should have guidance on how you should properly address any cadet.

Response by SSgt James Holt made Jun 14 at 2017 6:08 PM

2017-06-14T18:08:11-04:00

As former Air Force Sgt who upon returning to college joined the AFROTC POC the first time, I was saluted by an enlisted man surprised me. In my shock, I belatedly returned the salute after I recalled that in Basic Training we saluted Officer Candidates. If they are wearing their flight caps there was silver officer's braid and if they were wearing Service Cap the emblem on the peak of the cap is the same as that for all commissioned officers. They wear their cadet rank on their shoulder boards and only officers at the time wore their rank on their shoulders. NCOs and enlisted wore their rank on their shirt or blouse sleeves. As a medic, I did wear my rank as a sergeant on my Hospital whites on my collars as we couldn't be certain of getting our shirts back from the hospital laundry so we wore the metal stripes on our collars.

As a matter of customs and courtesies Officer Candidates, Cadets or Midshipmen are granted a status between that of Commissioned Officers and Non-Commissioned Officer. As a member of the USAF ROTC professional officers course the last two years of college your Junior and Senior years the POC member holds a Cadet Officer Grade. Those C2ndLT through CCol when they are wearing their cadet rank are properly rendered a salute traditionally.

Response by CPT Wes Marsh made Jun 15 at 2017 1:59 PM

2017-06-15T13:59:16-04:00

In my day, a Cadet was a Military Student and as such treated as such - a student, whether at school or at ROTC summer camp. A few during their MS IV summer training would be assigned to an active duty unit as a "Third Lieutenant" and be treated as an Officer.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 17 at 2017 2:15 AM

2017-06-17T02:15:17-04:00

Yes

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2017 5:35 AM

2017-06-17T05:35:21-04:00

Cadets aren't officers yet. Technically they outrank enlisted according to AR 600-20 but they don't have to be saluted and are just addressed as Cadet.

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Jun 18 at 2017 11:52 PM

2017-06-18T23:52:01-04:00

Never salute them. When i was a midshipman i would never return a salute. I would thank whoever did it and explain i dont rate it.
Any cadet/midshipman that thinks they dp is garbage. Take their name and forward to me if you like.

Response by LCpl James Perry made Jun 20 at 2017 6:57 AM

2017-06-20T06:57:57-04:00

Yes you do salute a Cadet that's in the process to be an officer

Response by SFC Tony Bennett made Jun 20 at 2017 5:27 PM

2017-06-20T17:27:37-04:00

NO! They've not yet EARNED that respect. For all intents and purposes, they are STILL CIVILIANS

Response by 2d Lt Darryl Hadfield made Jun 20 at 2017 6:33 PM

2017-06-20T18:33:14-04:00

Can't speak to the US Military about it, but on the Canadian side, cadets are treated as officers, when they are within the chain of command. Otherwise, no salute is rendered, but they're still technically an officer - as RAH put it, "squeezed in there between the enlisted and commissioned ranks - if anyone ever saluted a 3LT, the light must have been bad."

Response by LTC Roderic Hewlett made Jun 20 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-06-20T20:14:47-04:00

No! The day will come when they enter the Army as a commissioned officer, but not yet. A humble cadet would understand their status.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2017 5:34 PM

2017-06-25T17:34:57-04:00

This thread is a rehash of a rehash. An earlier thread is here: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/are-enlisted-soldiers-required-to-salute-an-officer-cadet

My only comment is this - do what you believe is in the best interests of the Army as these youngsters move beyond being cadets and become officers. You (and I'm speaking to enlisted personnel here) are the trainers for these cadets who will soon become young officers. How you treat them (and train them) is how they will anticipate being treated and trained once they are commissioned. Whether they should be saluted ... or not ... is really a trivial issue. How well you treat and train them is what is truly important. Salute them ... or don't ... but keep in mind that as you sow, so shall you reap. A whole bunch of us older officers and retired officers repeatedly beat the drum to those in ROTC or at West Point about the importance of NCOs in their professional growth and development. Don't be making us out to be liars.

Are enlisted Soldiers required to salute an Officer cadet? | RallyPoint

AR 600-25, 1-5 states who is entitled to a salute. No where in this does it say cadet (who has not received his commission).

Response by SPC Thomas Smith made Jul 6 at 2017 11:07 AM

2017-07-06T11:07:31-04:00

I have been out for a long time now but the saluting of a cadet isn't mandatory unless you are ordered to by a supervisor. It is a sign of respect but as a cadet it is not earned . But if you are ever in south simple salute and continue your day. They may know someone with influence and could make your life miserable

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 1:42 PM

2017-07-06T13:42:40-04:00

Once a Soldier or individual makes the decision to become or attempt to become a commissioned officer, the individual attains the rank equivalent to that of an SGT E-5. They are not to be saluted, however, you may address them as either Cadet sir/ma'am. Until the cadets have been federally recognized and given a commission, they are to be treated as an NCO .

Response by COL Jack Taliaferro made Jul 6 at 2017 2:49 PM

2017-07-06T14:49:38-04:00

Response by Capt Al Parker made Jul 6 at 2017 3:52 PM

2017-07-06T15:52:45-04:00

No, but as with everybody some respect would go along way.

Response by SPC Devin Foster made Jul 7 at 2017 8:03 AM

2017-07-07T08:03:59-04:00

Honestly I would say no. I have never read Any doctrine on any of this and base it purely off of my experience. My LT had two cadets came and shadow him for a few days. Being the young go getter team leader I was at the time, he made me teach them what it was I knew about the different weapons we were qualifying on. In no way did I treat them as if they outranked me, but I made sure not to treat them like your average baby private who new close to nothing. They mostly did their jobs and soaked up everything I told them, trying to show that they could learn and be an example for their future soldiers. Not once did I salute them, I called them cadet ----, and I just made sure they had the tools to pass on, even if it was just something as simple as the operation and shooting techniques that I had learned.

At one point, one of them about turned his SAW down the gun line, in that moment I got in his ass pretty bad. But besides that, I saw them as BIG privates who would lead men, and women, one day. This hazing stuff people talked about would have been squashed purely on respect. This "new army" and "old army" mentality got me into trouble with higher, who wanted to mess with soldiers for no reason, many of times.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2017 8:11 AM

2017-07-08T08:11:49-04:00

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made Jul 9 at 2017 3:56 PM

2017-07-09T15:56:29-04:00

No. But, because I as Mil Brat and understood confusion, I always returned every salute that I received. No one ever complained.

Response by LT Paul J. McCrone, CCM made Jul 11 at 2017 5:33 PM

2017-07-11T17:33:38-04:00

Speaking as a former officer in the Navy, I do not think cadets have to be saluted. Now bear in mind I went to OCS, not an academy. When I went to OCS, I technically had the rank of OCUI-2, E-5. I know cadets are technically in a different status, but I don't see them as any different than my former status. An officer is saluted because they retain the Authority, Responsibility, and Accountability that ultimately devolves from the President of the United States by way of their Commission. A cadet has NONE of these - no Authority, Responsibility, nor Accountability ( let's call it --ARA--), so I say NO salute. Now, if they had behaved in a professional manner, befitting their future rank, then salute away, but that it a personal sign of the respect that you have for them. Have you met officers that you respected? You salute them out of a sense of the honor that you feel for them. Have you met officers that you do not think highly of? You still salute them because despite it all, they retain the --ARA--; Cadets have to EARN the ARA, when they EARN it, they get saluted. IF a particular cadet somehow insists upon being saluted, I get the strong suspicion that they are on a power trip. In the end though, remember that this cadet will more than likely attain the --ARA-- at some point, and they will not likely forget it, so my recommendation is for you, as an enlisted person, go have a talk with your Senior Enlisted Advisor; I have ALWAYS found that the Senior Enlisted have the wisdom needed to handle such specific situations.

Response by SGT Katie Robinson made Jul 12 at 2017 1:54 AM

2017-07-12T01:54:58-04:00

While in AFJROTC near Eglin AFB, I did have this happen as did some of my high school classmates. We had some active duty members salute us, and we immediately returned the salute. The cadet who did not return the private's salute was in the wrong. When saluted, you return the salute.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jul 12 at 2017 9:14 AM

2017-07-12T09:14:31-04:00

A lot of people on this post are talking about the requirement or non-requirement to salute a cadet. A cadet is an officer-in-training, but they are also in the military. NCOs and enlisted should treat them with the proper military courtesy, but are not required to salute because they have not been commissioned yet. They do fall in the rank hierarchy food chain though. But let's talk about salutes. Everybody looks at a salute as something that one has to render to a superior officer, but that is not the original intent of the salute. Most sources cite the origin of the hand salute as the raising of the helmet visor so that knights in armor could recognize each other. That morphed into the removal of headgear to show respect to a superior, which morphed into touching the brim of the headgear to show the same respect. Today, the salute is used is used to indicate a sign of respect, mostly from enlisted to officer or junior officer to senior officer. However, I view the salute as a greeting between two practitioners of the profession of arms. Why couldn't I render a hand salute to a fellow Soldier out of respect regardless of his or her rank? It's not required by regulation, but is it proscribed? I would encourage you to think about salutes differently; not as something you have to do to a superior officer, but something you get to do as a member of the brotherhood (or sisterhood) of arms. Show respect to your fellow Soldier because you want to, not because you have to.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 13 at 2017 1:45 PM

2017-07-13T13:45:40-04:00

As a Platoon Sgt I had a cadet for a month and we treated him like one of the guys, but not as tough. He is still in training which is why I we had him.

Response by LT Michael Scott made Jul 13 at 2017 6:33 PM

2017-07-13T18:33:08-04:00

That is very true. Cadets are para-military and use salutes commonly, therefore you should render a salute unless you are an Officer in which case even a W-1 would out rank them and would not initiate but return a salute.

Response by SGT Eric Knutson made Jul 13 at 2017 6:52 PM

2017-07-13T18:52:17-04:00

A cadet is a larval officer, they are NOT in the chain of command, but they are there to learn first hand from other Officers and NCO's in the field they are planning to follow. I know it is different (everything is) between Active and Reserves or Guard, but they are non-deployable, but it is common to give them the courtisies of between a Warrent and a 2LT.

Response by LTC Timothy Hudson made Jul 13 at 2017 8:31 PM

2017-07-13T20:31:27-04:00

If the cadet was doing a summer stint with the unit it is probably on the Commander (or PL if the guy is shadowing a platoon). I instructed my soldiers to consider cadets officers as long as they were shadowing my units and I instructed cadets to act as such. The purpose, after all, is for the cadets to learn how a unit functions.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2017 8:51 PM

2017-07-13T20:51:14-04:00

The Cadet's eligibility for Commission is linked to completion of undergraduate studies and a diploma. if they fail to meet those academic requirements - they pay back as time in Enlisted ranks. As far as treating that cadet as a de facto Officer - I say no.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jul 13 at 2017 9:22 PM

2017-07-13T21:22:06-04:00

Can one start wearing ABN wings after their first jump? A cadet is still in training and haven't yet been "commissioned". Also, it depends on what you mean by "treated" as commissioned officers. I've witnessed officers get treated worse than NCOs lots of times.

Response by HN Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2017 8:53 AM

2017-07-14T08:53:20-04:00

Do Ranger candidates get the ranger tab and get treated like rangers, even though they have completed the training? Absolutely the fuck not

Response by CAPT Patrick Mulcahy made Jul 14 at 2017 12:06 PM

2017-07-14T12:06:27-04:00

In the Navy, a cadet (from whatever source - Naval Academy, ROTC) is at a rank that is lower than the lowest Warrant Officer (W1) and higher than the highest enlisted rank (E-9). The are saluted and called Ma'am or Sir.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Jul 15 at 2017 1:27 AM

2017-07-15T01:27:46-04:00

had 2 instances with cadets. both at Baumholder. walking up 'the steps' with a M2 and my toolbox, he told me I forgot to salute him. was already pissed so I kept going, I sure as hell wasnt going to put anything down, walked in to the orderly room to turn in the M2. he was right on my heels. He told Top I hadnt saluted him, CO heard this and told the snot-nosed kid he should of helped me. 2nd going down range they decide to have one riding in the turret, only place to put him was on the ready rack. his eyes where huge watching the gun tube slide back and forth with me kicking empty casings towards him. then the coax went off and dropped in the fetal position, the run was aborted because he was curled up on the banana.when we stopped he shoved his way past me out the loaders hatch (as God is my witness) had peed his pants.

Response by SrA Kenneth Blagburn made Jul 15 at 2017 10:35 PM

2017-07-15T22:35:23-04:00

Cadets are college students not active duty, plain and simple. The only salutes they require are by fellow cadets. They salute officers just as enlisted do.

Response by SGT Joseph Alanzo made Jul 16 at 2017 4:32 AM

2017-07-16T04:32:24-04:00

YES they are OFFICER but the PAY is an E-5 sgt. I have the CADETS all the time BUT as an SGT I most also show the M.O.S. in the MOTOR POOL or in the Rail Road unit work on the diesel loc motive or the rail track's and safty rules and combat also.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 10:51 PM

2017-07-16T22:51:17-04:00

they got to learn sometime

Response by SCPO Timothy Ellis made Jul 17 at 2017 6:26 PM

2017-07-17T18:26:55-04:00

Dude, two things, TACT and LEADERSHIP:
1. The odds are small but someday you may be working for her. I am assuming you were not a jerk so I hope you were diplomatic and used this as a teaching moment. Technically, YOU are the adult in this situation. It is your job to teach cadets whether you like it or not. Additionally, she gets the rules and regulations. You get the stuff that will keep you and her alive in real life situations AND she might be your boss someday and you do not want a situation like this hanging over your head AND, she may get to a place where you can network with her to get something done. Always watch the big, long term picture.
2. You are on the road to being a SNCO. if you are going to punch out, keep acting like this. If you are in it for the long haul, even though you are a LCPL you can lead like a 1SG. My brother is a COL. You know who runs his unit? His 1SG. As he says, "I get orders from above and give them to my 1SG. If he needs horsepower to move heavy things for him then I step in. If not, it is his show. I am here to support him." That is the way you need to be when called on to be a leader. This is one of those situations. She is a cadet, a child, teach her. It is your job soldier. We run the military, the officers are there to support us, not the other way round. Remember that. Hooah?

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jul 17 at 2017 7:53 PM

2017-07-17T19:53:17-04:00

NO---They haven't earned the right to a hand salute.

Response by SSG Billyray Musselman made Jul 17 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-07-17T20:03:02-04:00

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2017 6:37 PM

2017-07-20T18:37:20-04:00

I commissioned through OCS, so CTLT was not part of the program, but I believe saluting cadets is a good practice for THEIR development. When I joined, I joined as an officer candidate and went to basic training as an enlisted Soldier. The Drill Sergeants knew that I would go to OCS following and they poured special attention I to the few of us candidates-to-be in the company. They gave us insight into how to take care of Soldiers, how to plan, how to communicate, and the meaning of the Officer/NCO relationship. I remember countless hours memorizing the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer, mock boards, AARs after leadership role assignments, and much more. All at basic training! Their extra attention to us and their effort to mold future leaders, because they knew we would become them, made a resounding impact on me. Treating cadets with respect and saluting helps ingrain military customs and courtesies and helps them to learn to provide respect back before they take on leadership responsibilities. Salutes are a symbol of two-way respect, the recipient of the salute returns the salute to honor the person who initated. If you want them to respect you and learn from you, show respect and offer the military courtesy. It will only make both you and the cadet better.

Response by Cpl Thomas Kifer made Jul 24 at 2017 12:41 AM

2017-07-24T00:41:27-04:00

When I went from LCPL TO CPL and then a few months later to NCO school this question was brought up a lot. Please bare with me for a response. As an NCO, I've notice the behavior of those who just did their 4-6 year stint, just in case TSHTF, they won't be called into action. And there were those like myself, who wanted to make a career of the Corps. So to my answer. I said CPL, are you a short timer or a lifer. He assured me he was a lifer. I said, weather they warrant a salute or not makes no difference as a enlisted person. While they may not rate a salute, you will likely cross paths with this officer in the future and they will remember you saluted even though you didn't have to. And it may be to your advantage to do so and they most likely will remember. If your a short timer it may not make a difference. But never forget, you can never lose when handing out respect freely.

Response by MSgt Rick Childress made Jul 24 at 2017 3:00 AM

2017-07-24T03:00:10-04:00

Cadet is short for candidate. Think of it as someone running for political office but may or may not get it.

Response by SGT David Petree made Jul 24 at 2017 11:41 AM

2017-07-24T11:41:40-04:00

We got several of them one summer in Germany . We were informed by the Co. that there rank was lower than a Pvt. And would be treated like won.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 26 at 2017 1:04 PM

2017-07-26T13:04:35-04:00

no - they are not commisioned yet. they should be treated with respect, just like anyone else, but you do not salute them

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Jul 26 at 2017 1:24 PM

2017-07-26T13:24:03-04:00

NO, until they are commissioned they are a "Civilian". end of discussion.

Response by Sarah Zayas made Jul 26 at 2017 4:51 PM

2017-07-26T16:51:01-04:00

interesting

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 26 at 2017 7:46 PM

2017-07-26T19:46:07-04:00

No one's going with AR 600-20? Shame...
If you're enlisted you certainly should. The formal/correct form of address for a cadet is Mister, Miss or Cadet. If you go to AR 600-20, table 1-7, you'll note that in the official Army hierarchy, Cadets are senior to enlisted personnel. Cadets they may be, but they do have some standing.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jul 27 at 2017 8:53 PM

2017-07-27T20:53:18-04:00

When I was at Fort Lee going through the Army Cook/ baker school, The W/I had a
Cadet bird-digging him leaning what the w/O did as a Food Svc Ofcr. Later that day I was assigned a detail to bowl up some eggs for next day's breakfast and the Cadet came ovr to watch... I'd break the F'g open Into one bowl and transfer it..
Do another transfer it.. the reason I explained is if I came upon one with a blood spot I discarded it. Or a discolored
Brownish yolk.. I discarded it.. he WAnted to help so I got him a plastic apron and he helped me finish the eggs.
He was actually pretty good cracking them in each hand... later the W/O thanked me for keeping the Cadet busy..
Not a prob Chief, he helped me get all the eggs done. Next afternoon I was on bacon and sausage panning.. he got good at that.. got to learn to follow before learning to lead.. if an officer knows what his men do as part of their job, he can better lead them. Next day morn I was on the grill and I showed him how easy it was
Doing the eggs easy overs, omelette., a bunch of his Cadet comrades came through our line and the Cadet put on and cooked their overs w/o busting a yolk, he cooked about 20 sets.. and got them through in good time, too. The mess steward asked why was I letting that Cadet cook eggs, he wanted to SFC J.!
He did good, too !.. SFC J.. took him back to the W/O and asked him to keep he cadet with him. At the same time I developed my leadership skill.. OJTing the Cadet in how different jobs were done in the kitchen.. Later that SFC and I had some words.. " A1C Herrst, you're a student yourself.. so how did you come to be his instuctor, can you answer that for me?"... I did it respectfully as Could.. explaining that before I joined the AF I worked for my Great Aunt that owned a restaurant. I was practically raised up in the business from a little fellow shucking beans on the back porch to prepping and cooking in the kitchen and on the line. I know my Stuff, I wanted to pick up what I could from the Military way and I'm learning great stuff e'day, SFC J. ., After that he trusted me with stuff like the slicer and big Floor mixer and overhead mixer over the kettles that hung from a I beam. .
I showed him I could and He watched them let me be.. The school was merely a formality.. I went over to the other sections like Field baking and field mess..
I'd covered a lot of stuff in the CDCs. Near the end I signed on to go to Camp Perry.. actually only the Army Cooks were required to go.. I got so 5 of us Air Force could go... I learned some good stuff working in that field mess, so'd my comrades.. we didn't get stuck doing grunge details, we got a little.. that goes with the territory. We were cooking roasts and doing other good cooking jobs.
I went and baked breads at the field bakery there at camp Perry. I really practiced that Clean as you go and that made it really easy when we were all finished.. Another group was pulling in As we rolled out going back to Fort Lee..
We 5 each got an certificate of appreciation from the Bivouac Cmdr.
He said we showed great teamwork and other Great examples of esprit d' corps..
He had some guy's doing some grunge work cleaning the field mess burners (m-2
Units and they were going about it wrong.
So we showed them how to properly dismantle them, clean out the Venturi tube and run the metal strip through burner slots, stuff with new steel wool
Then put them back together. The way they would of done them would have ruined the units .. those guys were disciplinary bks inmates and didn't actually know how to clean the m-2s.
It wasn't their fault, s'body in-charge dropped the ball. . So We got back to Fort Lee and back to our detachment..
Bags already to go, got processed and got out of there... I didn't mind so much the AF school wasn't finished .. it was a great experience working with our Army Comrades in Arms !

Response by SPC John Chambers made Jul 27 at 2017 10:04 PM

2017-07-27T22:04:19-04:00

We had two Cadets assigned to our unit during the summer of 2004 while I was on Active Duty. They were your typical butterbar wannabes thinking their rear ends smelled like roses. I refused to salute them and was ordered to do so by my Company CO. I protested but lost the argument.

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Jul 30 at 2017 9:16 AM

2017-07-30T09:16:29-04:00

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 8:21 AM

2017-07-31T08:21:57-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I hope everyone who has to deal with cadets will try to remember they are in training to be officers. Part of how they will be as officers comes from how they are treated as cadets.

I have always saluted cadets and called them Sir/Ma'am, even when they are just kids with no more idea of what it means to be a soldier than you can get from watching G.I.Joe cartoons.

No, they are not commissioned, and a salute is not required. A cadet cannot be deployed if the unit is deployed. But you have a chain of command, and it should be used. Your unit's officers are also supposed to be helping the cadet learn to be an officer. It's not a mistake to let your platoon sergeant take this kind of behavior up the chain. I haven't yet seen a cadet stupid enough to get in a pissing contest with the 1SG. I would also hope the units officers will want to take the cadet off to the side for some advice. Of course, if you unit's officers are limp, the example they set will be limp.

I had a similar problem with 2LTs when I was a SGM. They would stand at attention and call me sir, and I responded, "No sir, I call you sir. I work for a living."

If you piss in a cadet's Cheerios because you can, how can you then complain when the 2LT is a posturing martinet, who has no conception of going to his senior NCOs for help and advice? You helped make them what they are.

Response by SPC Rick Norris made Jul 31 at 2017 10:42 AM

2017-07-31T10:42:45-04:00

No. They are not officers yet.

Response by SPC Dennis Brown made Jul 31 at 2017 3:56 PM

2017-07-31T15:56:31-04:00

I had the same thing happen at Fort Carson. The Cadet had 3 diamonds, Iwalked by him. He called my platoon sgt. ,told I didn't salute him. SGT Greer calls me over ,Tell the cadet why you didn't salute him. So I said sir I do not regonize your rank diamonds werenot taught in basic. Just to dig a little deeper I then said , I thought diamonds were a girls best friend.that cadet got so red face and SGT Greer trying not to laugh was priceless.

Response by SSG George Duncan made Jul 31 at 2017 9:56 PM

2017-07-31T21:56:01-04:00

i don't know much but if that plebe might be your OIC it might be a good idea,

Response by PFC Eric Parrish made Aug 3 at 2017 10:15 AM

2017-08-03T10:15:53-04:00

No, rank is earned not granted. A Midshipman asked me when I didn't salute him," don't you salute officers?" I replied, "Yes I do and when I see one I will salute."

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2017 12:08 PM

2017-08-03T12:08:06-04:00

I think that it actually depends on the duty position that they are in. So, if a cadet is placed in the "Assistant" Platoon Leader position for CTLT for their summer training, they are technically in an officer position. I'm not aware of a regulation that states this categorically but the cadet deserves as much respect as any other leader in the unit so if a Sergeant is not training his/her troops properly to respect superiors and superiors are not acting like servant leaders, you then have a breakdown in proper decorum or you work at an Amazon Fulfillment Center (JK!).

Response by Sgt Anthony Maske made Aug 3 at 2017 1:50 PM

2017-08-03T13:50:13-04:00

ROFLMAO ... No, Nope, hell no ... They're "Cadets" (civilians in school) and not commissioned officers serving in the military of any branches. In fact, "Cadets" should (imho) address "any" actively serving veteran (commissioned or not) as "Sir" for respect.

Response by SPC Christopher Jackson made Aug 4 at 2017 1:59 AM

2017-08-04T01:59:42-04:00

Seems to me that, Cadets need to understand that senior enlisted and battle hardened enlisted could teach a cadet a thing or two. Cadets aren't commissioned until they finish their education.

Response by 1stSgt Rick Bushgen made Aug 5 at 2017 1:28 AM

2017-08-05T01:28:58-04:00

Wake up people let's look at this rationally; Cadets will be referred to as Mister, Miss or Cadet, Cadets are not paid E5 pay, they are given a monthly stipend. With that said as an NCO do we salute other NCO. That answer is NO but I and others have 'out of' "RESPECT". So cadets if earned will get the respect coming to them!

Enough said, you want to discuss something REAL. Lets discuss this transgender crapola! Now that is a debate I would love to hash out with the snowflakes out there. :)

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Aug 5 at 2017 1:44 AM

2017-08-05T01:44:20-04:00

IIRC-CAVEAT :)

When that happens, the proper response from the cadet is to either return the salute or say "carry on" or identify themselves and say the salute is not required , for the cadet to nothing is at least discourtesy as a matter of custom if not a violation of their regulations/orders.

Saluting cadets is not required unless unit SOP(TOP) says to. Might be specific to/during a training exercise for example. Army regs as mentioned, don't require saluting cadets.

I don't recall us(tank unit West Germany). saluting cadets when they showed upfor a few weeks training
However some saluting accidents occurred because the rank looks like officer rank if you can't see it clearly. And we got ," carry on" and a salute in reply IRRC, they ere senior class West Pointers. I think we did an intentional salute to one cadet before he left because it was a consensus that we thought he was going to be a good officer. He won that salute. Made his day, I'm sure.

Response by SSgt Carrie Foster Campbell made Aug 6 at 2017 9:40 PM

2017-08-06T21:40:36-04:00

Even though I was only a teenager when my dad a CSM was stationed at USMA from 72-76, not once did I ever see him salute a cadet until graduation day. Yes, he and my whole family treated the cadets with respect and even when I was on active duty when dealing with a cadet, I did not salute them, but would call them Sir or Ma'am. I was in the Air Force and Army after admission to the service academies was granted to women. Anyway to share a quick story when this one cadet 2nd LT graduated my dad was honored to give him is first "official" salute. Later on my dad would become the godparent to one of the same cadet/officer children and that same cadet/officer gave a wonderful eulogy at my dad's funeral a little over 2 years ago and told a story how he almost crapped in his pants when receiving a call from a CSM who would be his sponsor from his sophomore year to graduation.

Response by SPC Billie Anders made Aug 10 at 2017 10:17 AM

2017-08-10T10:17:36-04:00

I always saluted cadets just to avoid the drama. Some didn't care and some felt they were entitled and sometimes company Commander required it.

Response by SGT John Graham made Aug 10 at 2017 3:40 PM

2017-08-10T15:40:26-04:00

This is a problem of class, that is elitism. Commissioned clump together...second lieutenants and cadets...let's just say the rank deserves respect. The individual, whether cadet or second lieutenant needs to realize their career is based on their bars having training wheels. We all have seen individuals without leadership with rank. The real issue is that true leadership is natural and taught leadership isn't. It can help, but natural is better. If you want respect you must respect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2017 9:38 AM

2017-08-11T09:38:37-04:00

I always told the cadets that were working under me that my Soldiers answered to me, and that they would get their first salute after they commissioned. The first salute is a long-standing tradition and should be honored. Then again, I'm an OCS grad.

Response by PO1 Kerry French made Aug 13 at 2017 3:11 PM

2017-08-13T15:11:49-04:00

Bahahahahahahah!!! Salute a cadet! That's a good one! Being retired now I don't salute anyone anymore but I wouldn't salute a cadet if I were on AD in uniform anyway because they are not commissioned yet.

Response by CPO Mark Robinson made Aug 13 at 2017 3:23 PM

2017-08-13T15:23:46-04:00

Aboard ship we generally get first and third class midshipmen and it was explained to us to treat the first classes as officers and the third classes as enlisted and it worked out pretty well. It made sense because the the third class wore enlisted dungarees at the time. My experience with the first class midshipmen were mostly positive. I was just a young petty officer and they were always friendly with me. Of course most of them were just months away from getting their commission and so most of the butt heads had been weeded out by then. As for the third classed there was a level of immaturity that you could see in many of them.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 11:28 PM

2017-08-13T23:28:12-04:00

I've commanded ROTC for 4 years at Montana State University. Cadets in my unit were either straight up civilians, or they were enlisted in the inactive reserve -- none of them are commissioned at any time until they pin on the gold bars on commissioning date. Cadets should be treated with respect, in my opinion, because you're teaching them by example. If you're an officer, it shows you respect subordinates, if you're junior enlisted, NCO or SNCO - it teaches them that you are professional and disciplined. However, if a cadet lets into an enlisted person for not saluting - you need to notify their cadre at their ROTC unit -- that's a clear sign of lack of maturity and demonstrates character inconsistent with what we train these young men and women as they pursue their commission.

I recommend NOT saluting cadets, but it is not incorrect to do so - it's simply a sign of respect; but they haven't earned the position that requires such customs and courtesies. For the record, I was enlisted 8 years, went through ROTC and commissioned (26 years, 7 months - retired this month from ROTC command), nothing is more humbling to a cadet than the demonstrated professionalism, expertise and commitment of a solid NCO. It really makes a cadet look inward and ask themselves if they are worthy to lead such outstanding soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines... it's mentally transformational, first-hand experience here.

Thank all of you who continue to serve this great nation and for your demonstrated leadership to the next generation of our officers!

Response by PO2 Gerry Tandberg made Aug 15 at 2017 10:41 PM

2017-08-15T22:41:01-04:00

If a cadet insists on a salute from a noncom then he/she doesn't belong in the military. Your looking at a problem child for which the military should not be charged to babysit.

Response by SSG James Raschke made Aug 18 at 2017 11:55 AM

2017-08-18T11:55:33-04:00

I used to be an ROTC Cadet a Cadet is a Cadet you are not a commissioned officer in any branches of the service therefore you're not entitled to be saluted by anybody or being called ma'am or sir now in a military school as I went to in the military school is different you're all Cadets with different Cadet ranks of course other Cadets will sloot a Cadet officer that's different but if you want an army veteran or an army listed Personnel to salute you that's not going to happen not in this lifetime not less you are a commissioned officer in the military school like I says different Cadets have to salute a Cadet officer

Response by SGT Greg McCall made Aug 19 at 2017 12:37 PM

2017-08-19T12:37:46-04:00

No, according to AR 600-20, 1-5, paragraph a, command can only be exercise by commissioned or warrant officers.
It further states that commands must have the appropriate grade...and the chart further in the rest lists cadets as having a special pay grade...which is not a command grade.

Lastly, according to AR 600-25 section 1-5, a hand salute is only given to "persons entitled to the salute" it then lists who gives who salutes, stating, officers, commissioned and warrant, and entitled to salutes from enlisted personnel
Cadets are not listed...if a cadet wants to be saluted, they have to wait until they are entitled to it, they deserve all the respect any soldier is entitled to...no more no less.
They can be officers and gentlemen when they become officers!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 19 at 2017 1:02 PM

2017-08-19T13:02:30-04:00

The Private did correctly by saluting the Cadet...the Cadet should've returned their salute.

Response by SP5 Norman McGill made Aug 19 at 2017 4:27 PM

2017-08-19T16:27:05-04:00

Cadets are not commissioned officers until they graduate and earn the rank. Since they are not official then I wouldn't think a salute would be required. But I've been wrong before.

Response by 1LT Nina Barnhart made Aug 19 at 2017 4:50 PM

2017-08-19T16:50:08-04:00

I don't think I was saluted when I was a cadet shadowing LT, I was just called "Ma'am." I didn't really care either way. The only experience I had previously had with a cadet while on active duty was when I was in Basic Training as an enlisted soldier. Obviously, I was expected to treat the cadet as a commissioned officer.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2017 12:35 PM

2017-08-20T12:35:53-04:00

Frankly I know we are not required to salute them however a salute is about respect regardless of who renders it even if enlisted to enlisted. Additionally as far as I am concerned... I do not offer any more or any less respect based on rank. I respect everyone as individuals whether they deserve respect or not simply because of the way I was raised. Now some individuals I may respect for their rank but not as a person however I will still treat them as I would want to be treated. The worst disrespect in my 16 yrs in military was a cadet until this past couple yrs... I still respected the individual based on position but I looked to my superior NCO for direction...

Response by LTC David Williams made Aug 22 at 2017 3:06 PM

2017-08-22T15:06:37-04:00

There is a marked difference between a West Point cadet and a ROTC cadet. A West Point cadet is a member of the regular army and is subject to the UCMJ. They can give and receive lawful orders. Their rank is above that of enlisted and noncommissioned officers and below that of second lieutenant. A ROTC cadet is not a member of the regular army and is not subject to the UCMJ and holds no rank.

Response by Sgt John Koliha made Aug 23 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-08-23T13:36:02-04:00

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, faraway:

We Marine Guards asked the same question, and we were told that it would give them practice but it wasn't required. So, one day three of us were walking to early noon chow before going on duty. As we were approach by a Midshipman, we all threw him a hard salute - but with the LEFT HAND. He returned it with his left hand, walked about three paces, stopped and looked down at his hands in puzzlement.

We kept walking and didn't laugh until we were inside the mess hall.

Response by SPC Ken Sawyer made Aug 25 at 2017 2:08 PM

2017-08-25T14:08:16-04:00

I would have told her if you want a salute go to a Navy base lol. Back in my day they were told to salute anytthat shines. Here I was a PFC walking around Pearl being saluted by people that way iutbranked me it was kind of fun

Response by MSG Ralph Julian made Aug 26 at 2017 12:12 PM

2017-08-26T12:12:48-04:00

In regards to the comment from the LT about a cadet getting paid while in reserves or National Guard and therefore they should be entitled to a salute. They don't deserve s salute because they are paid as an E-5 until they Graduate from College or whatever school they are associated with. Then they take an Oath of Commission and there appropriate rank is placed on their collar. At that time they are entitled to a salute from all enlisted members. Unless they've changed the rules that's the way it has always been.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 12:22 AM

2017-08-27T00:22:32-04:00

This is always a tricky one, and a fun one to share stories about, however there is a simple answer. If a cadet is assigned to your unit for training (CTLT) just do whatever your commander tells you to do as far as how you recognize them. Technically you do not have to listen to the cadet, and do not "owe" them any due respects that are associated with our military customs and courtesies, but also remember to live the Army Values and treat everyone with Respect (who knows, this may even prevent a jaded cadet from growing into a vindictive FGO/GO some day). Trust that your commander and first sergeant are capable of providing the appropriate mentorship/experience to the cadet in their charge, treat them however they instruct you to, and you should be good to go. And if you are unclear of your commander's intent with a cadet, then ask (or have your PL/PSG).

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Aug 27 at 2017 8:49 AM

2017-08-27T08:49:37-04:00

Nope. They're just cadets. Granted the cadet that is in my unit now knows his shit, he's still just a cadet.

Response by Arsenio Ibay made Aug 28 at 2017 1:08 AM

2017-08-28T01:08:10-04:00

This was back in the early 90's - part of the brief prior to reporting for CTLT was a cadet's status while attached to a active duty unit, which was basically shadowing a platoon leader. The ideal experience would be some leadership role, but anything and everything was at the discretion, approval and supervision of the platoon leader and the company commander - no cadets-run-amok. Expectations should have been clearly spelled out by the CTLT liaison before departing camp, and by the lieutenant when the cadet reported.
In my case, I learned that the lieutenant had briefed his platoon prior to my arrival, and requested that I be shown the courtesies due a commissioned officer for the duration. And as you all know, a request is pretty much an order, so I got salutes, rooms got called to attention, sergeants repositioned themselves to my left, and so on. They very well could have been told I was to be eyes-and-ears-open-mouth-shut - guess luck had it the unit followed the program's intent to the letter. Outside of the unit, I was open game - I didn't expect salutes, but I sure gave them/returned them.
There was what some would consider "polite" testing on the part of the platoon - see if I would get lost during a field problem, proper chain-of-command channels, etc. But a self-aware cadet should know he or she is there to learn and experience, and not cause too much damage.
And part of that self-awareness (and little bit of wake-up call) from having experienced NCO and junior enlisted alike rendering those courtesies, was having to earn them. And that they already have earned acknowledgement, such as a returned salute.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Aug 28 at 2017 4:31 AM

2017-08-28T04:31:19-04:00

He actually saluted a cadet? I sincerely hope you sent that boot to the company office to get a stack of DD-214's, some head light fluid, and the keys to the Humvees

Response by SGM Lawrence Bauer made Aug 29 at 2017 2:14 PM

2017-08-29T14:14:55-04:00

No, they should be treated as a newbie until they pint on their bars.

Response by SrA Daniel Hamilton made Aug 30 at 2017 11:39 AM

2017-08-30T11:39:12-04:00

When I was stationed at FE Warren AFB in Cheyenne, WY I had just got off a mid and went to morning chow, just so happens there were a bunch of cadets from the AF academy walking into the chow hall at the same time as me and a few buddies. I held the door for the entire group and one of the last cadets stopped and looked at me. this kid looked like he was 14 but in reality he was he was probably 19 or 20 and he stood in front of me and waited. I asked him if there was a problem and he looked at my sleeve and said "Airman you best snap to when addressing an officer." I looked at him and laughed and said "an officer of what?" I told him his star trek rank doesn't mean anything in the real military and when he stopped playing pretend then I would gladly snap to and salute his butter bar, but until then he better get out of my face and go eat chow before his playmates missed him, I didn't have time for his games. He said I would be talked to and stomped off into the chow hall like a spoiled baby. As I started to walk in the door I was stopped by their instructor or teacher or what ever he was, This was a Capt. I snapped to and gave a salute and he smiled returned my salute and then offered his hand. I shook his hand and he said thanks for what I had just did because some in this group still didn't understand they they aren't officers yet and try to get enlisted, E-1's through E4's to salute them as a game.
I removed my beret as we walked in and walked over to my buddies who were at the end of the line. The Capt asked us if we were going on shift and we said no we were coming off a Mid and wanted to eat before we went to bed.
The Capt started yelling at these cadets telling them REAL Military was at the end of the line and they had better make room and show some respect. He made them all line up at the end of the line and as we went through the line and paid he made each one of the cadets salute us and tell us thank you for our service and sacrifices.
Sorry to be long winded, but to answer your question a cadets rank is meaningless to anyone outside ROTC, Academy or other military colleges, Until they are commissioned their Dots, Diamonds or whatever are meaningless.

Response by MCPO Kurt Stauff made Aug 31 at 2017 10:28 AM

2017-08-31T10:28:41-04:00

My favorite instance of this issue occurred while I was in Basic Enlisted Submarine School in November 1983. There was a submarine Master Chief who talked to every BESS and BOSS class, and he had service stripes up past his elbow--at least 44 years service--and a group of midshipmen passed by him as he was talking to a few students. An impetuous midshipman confronted him with, Master Chief, don't you salute officers?" The crusty old Master Chief looked him up and down and said, "I do when I see one." The midshipman tucked his tail between his legs and made a hasty retreat, hopefully learning his lesson. Cadets are worthy of respect, but not a salute.

Response by AN Monte Pritchett made Sep 2 at 2017 8:28 AM

2017-09-02T08:28:46-04:00

Simple answer....NO!

Response by SP5 Bob Beck made Sep 2 at 2017 8:41 AM

2017-09-02T08:41:33-04:00

yes how else will they learn unless taught by an NCO (lol)

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Sep 3 at 2017 12:34 AM

2017-09-03T00:34:07-04:00

Many times during my career we got Cadets during summer break. Usually for 30 days. When I was lower enlisted 1978-1982, I was briefed by my section sergeant on his expectations of how we should treat cadets. In my opinion it was a bad briefing because he basically said treat them like crap and don't salute them. Later when I became an NCO, I was briefed by either my Battery Commander or Battalion Commander on how to treat cadets. In every case their standing orders were treat them as a junior officer in training. Title of address was Cadet or Mister or Miss. We were directed to always render them salutes even in a field environment which my Infantry and Fied Artillery units often frowned upon as sniper check salutes. 90 percent of the cadets we got were good examples of future officers. I will always remember the one exception we got in Panama. She acted like an eight year old spoiled child. After three days of her antics I had to ask her Platoon Leader to join me outside for a very serious conversation. I told him he better set her down, give her a good talking to and put some solid directives on paper and have her sign it. Also to let her know a letter would be mailed to her Cadre at her academy about some of the bullshit antics she was up to. Our Bn CDR got wind of the crap she was up to. He did an unscheduled trip out to the West Bank Training area after duty hours to witness it for himself. He had scheduled a 10 day platoon FTX to give her a taste of true field environment. He came back that night and told me he had cut short the FTX by three days after he talked to the Platoon Junior NCOs and lower enlisted and heard the antics she was up to. I was an SFC at the time directed to serve as Field 1SG for the FTX. Doing fuel, food, mail and commo resupply once every day.

Response by SrA Merwin Hayes made Sep 3 at 2017 4:19 AM

2017-09-03T04:19:59-04:00

My opinion only- you can salute anyone you want - even enlisted personnel and civilians, but you shouldn't give cadets a big head, at least not until they are qualified to wear the bars.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2017 4:50 PM

2017-09-03T16:50:25-04:00

No, they're too young to understand their responsibilities as an Officer in the Profession of Arms. How about you?

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 5 at 2017 12:46 AM

2017-09-05T00:46:57-04:00

There's the answer, cadets have minimal experience in military life. They jst don't have the knowledge to lead real active duty troops. They don't understand that they'll hve NCOs to run the day to day operations of a military unit. Having cadet to look after long with a platoon of veterans is like a kindergarten student being in high school. Harrassment will be plentiful. Pulling pranks on these cadets will lead to major chaos. And the cadet will be unable to cope. I had Air Forc cadets come to my unts during their summer training, they don't know proper proceedures, try to over calculate problems when it's not needed and become confused easily. I treated cadets as human beings, give them guidance, and showed them respect. A few I ran into after they graduated and were stationed at the same base as me, became effective active duty officers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2017 10:10 AM

2017-09-06T10:10:35-04:00

Politeness where politeness due. If a cadet is prior service with deployments they hopefully can be given some respect if they learned something during their time in the machine. Other than that its a kid who will get some sirs and maams, no salutes, and a bunch of training, especially if they start attempting to cause safety issues.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2017 1:43 PM

2017-09-07T13:43:19-04:00

Back when I was a SPC/CPL about 20 years ago while on active duty, we had a couple of cadets in my unit. We were told we were to salute them. Now, we didn't have seemingly power hungry cadets like this one. We respected the position first and let the person show they deserved the respect. This may have been a sophomoric way to approach the situation, but it turned out well.

Often the cadet is being assigned to the type of unit where they are interested in becoming branch qualified. It helps them figure out where they might best fit. Let's face it, there is a different attitude between the branches and not everybody fits well into each of the branches.

The hardest thing for a cadet or a new young officer to learn is, the Soldiers will salute the rank you wear, but that does not mean they are saluting you. You have to earn that kind of respect by looking out for, and balancing, the needs of the unit and the needs of the Soldier. Once you have that balancing act figured out you will be able to tell. The feeling of having someone salute YOU and not your rank makes the hard work and sacrifice you put into honing your craft worth it. You get a lot more done if your troops respect you for you, not the rank you wear.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Sep 7 at 2017 7:24 PM

2017-09-07T19:24:19-04:00

If he's a Cadet temporarily assigned to a unit He is with 1 year of commissioning. When I was stationed in Germany we had a West Point cadet assigned to our BN. His pay rate was 1/2 of E-5.
Our CSM and BnCdr decided that He was not a commissioned officer and did not rate a Salute, but he would still be addressed as Sir.

Response by SrA Ralph Gilbert made Sep 11 at 2017 1:42 AM

2017-09-11T01:42:54-04:00

No ,some may want to be saluted by enlisted as they are by under classmen , we have a group of AF cadets vist the 363 AGS at Shaw AFB one summer in their flight suits and colored ropes ,each time they came in the AMU day room they would look at us as we should be jumping to our feet to salute them -- we have airplanes to fix ,plus the flight line was a no salute zone

Response by MAJ Monty Mertz made Sep 11 at 2017 11:53 AM

2017-09-11T11:53:10-04:00

I was selected for AOT - Army Orientation Training - when an ROTC Cadet is assigned to an active duty unit as a Platoon leader - I was assigned as a Weapons Platoon leader in the 82nd Airborne - all of the men in the company treated me as just another one of the LTs - they called me sir and saluted me as such. No one questioned it or showed any resistance to it.

Response by CPT Ted Dannemiller made Sep 11 at 2017 12:31 PM

2017-09-11T12:31:21-04:00

I don't recall my briefing during CTLT in 11th ACR back in the 70s. I do remember my LT sponsor told me the ROE as it were. He delegated most routine non-critical tasks to me, and I was THE field leader on our run at Graf that summer. My NCOs and soldiers addressed me as Cade, and I don't recall their rendering me a salute in garrison or field. That said, even in 1972, respect was a two-way street, and I strove to earn it.

The context for me would be that IF a soldier rendered a salute, I would return it to honor that soldier. I would not (if memory serves me right) have an expectation that soldiers MUST render a salute.

Lastly, IF a Cadet is butt hurt, where is the sponsor mentoring and guidance on standards and expectations. The cadet might be wrong, but CTLT is meant to expose them to reality. I'd argue we have a duty to school them, as long as they seek knowledge, skills, and abilities as soldiers and leaders.

I was prior enlisted before attending West Point and graduating. I understand the dilemma, and how soldiers returned from a battlefield might be quick to judge a cadet. Seek to understand is a good starting point.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Sep 17 at 2017 8:50 PM

2017-09-17T20:50:57-04:00

In the Navy, they're called midshipmen. They are not entitled a salute. In fact, an E-1 deserves more respect.

Response by PFC Sarah (née Cripe) Sneeden made Sep 18 at 2017 6:53 AM

2017-09-18T06:53:14-04:00

No, not until they get their commission should they get treated as such. Unless they earn it by gaining the respect of others.

I was in the reserves and we had a couple ROTC Cadets assigned to our Unit. One was totally squared away and treated everyone with respect. I liked him and got along well with him. Since, he treated me and everyone else with respect, I did the same back.

Now, this other doofus, I mean ROTC Cadet was still squared away but he had the attitude of my 13 year old niece. Every time he spoke, you'd just want to punch him in the face or throat punch him. I never did.

Response by CPT Scott Batz made Sep 18 at 2017 12:06 PM

2017-09-18T12:06:26-04:00

As enlisted I treated them with respect. If I saluted them I would expect return. Saluting them is part of the cadet orientation for their future as a commissioned officer.

Response by SGT Kevin Dorsey made Sep 19 at 2017 3:58 AM

2017-09-19T03:58:11-04:00

I Got off active duty as an E-5 and Joined ROTC in college and was in the simultaneous membership program in the AR. I was paid as an E-5 and I was slotted in an 04 slot as a HQ S-3. I was not entitled to salutes nor did I expect them. I did earn the respect of many in my unit and would occasionally get a salute thrown my way which they knew was not required but, I appreciated.

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Sep 21 at 2017 7:20 AM

2017-09-21T07:20:18-04:00

Never....the limits are set in place for a reason!

Response by MAJ David Peterson made Sep 21 at 2017 4:16 PM

2017-09-21T16:16:28-04:00

I was an SMP Cadet, filling a PL position for a ARNG unit. When I first joined, the NCO and enlisted soldiers would generally address me as Cadet Peterson and did not salute. Our 1SG though, always called me Sir and saluted me. He said that if the command expected me to be a PL, I should be treated with the same respect as the other PLs. Eventually, all the unit members treated me likewise. I always appreciated the support this senior NCO showed me, and I believe that his actions shortened my learning curve immensely.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Sep 21 at 2017 10:19 PM

2017-09-21T22:19:34-04:00

Your Private did the right thing, the cadet did not. A salute should always be returned as a matter of mutual respect.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Sep 24 at 2017 5:00 PM

2017-09-24T17:00:39-04:00

NO, NO, NO. A cadet is just that. A cadet is in training to become a officer. Until a cadet has fulfilled the requirements that makes them an officer, they are like any applicant for a job. Would you give a airman basic training to be a aircraft mechanic, aircraft forms and told they may sign off on the service condition of a aircraft? No, you wouldn't. it takes training, experience, which takes time. Not all people can be mechanics or leaders of armies without proper training. And what about those who can only partly fulfill the requirements for the job they seek? Do you honestly want them to lead you into battle, or give you confidence your airplane will be mission ready and safe to fly?

Response by Kayla Hamelin made Sep 27 at 2017 4:27 PM

2017-09-27T16:27:18-04:00

I am a Cadet in the AFROTC program so it may be a bit different but from my understanding no one has to salute us. We are treated, as someone mentioned, as students in training. Our “rank” is just Cadet (...) . From my understanding we are supposed to respect both enlisted and officer ranks at this point they are all higher than we are. It may be different for different branches however that is what I have been told by older Cadet’s and our Officers.

Response by SPC Ray Hicks made Sep 29 at 2017 10:16 AM

2017-09-29T10:16:01-04:00

Seriously ! ? , it ain't real untill its "real" , somebody give that pathetic plebe a certificate of participation medal ha ha , they sure have a lot to learn about respect and leadership ...good luck canditate "entitlement"

Response by LCpl Bradley Otto made Sep 29 at 2017 11:12 AM

2017-09-29T11:12:05-04:00

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that valuable information.

Response by Capt David Jaeckel made Sep 30 at 2017 2:04 PM

2017-09-30T14:04:15-04:00

No cadets are not to be treated with the same courtesies that an officer has earned. A cadet is only in training and they can be saluted if your CO says to but it is not required and any cadet who gets butt hurt is going to be a poor officer. I have been an enlisted man, a cadet, and an officer.

Response by CWO2 Bob Schweikert made Oct 1 at 2017 1:25 PM

2017-10-01T13:25:37-04:00

No !

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-10-01T13:36:01-04:00

NOPE...

Response by PFC Robert Rice made Oct 1 at 2017 2:32 PM

2017-10-01T14:32:19-04:00

Never had this happen however I did salute an officer while on active duty and he refused to return the salute. I only wanted to show him the respect that was due to him.

Response by TSgt Johnnie Keller made Oct 1 at 2017 5:07 PM

2017-10-01T17:07:42-04:00

No!

Response by Lt Col Robert Van Hee made Oct 2 at 2017 7:20 PM

2017-10-02T19:20:57-04:00

Correct. Cadets are not commissioned officers and it is not necessary to salute them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2017 1:11 PM

2017-10-03T13:11:06-04:00

Recently going through OCS, I have somewhat of a unique take on this -- the long and short of my response is yes, and no.

Let me start with the no part - NO: We do not need to salute them, address them as sir/ma'am, stand at attention when talking to them, or really render them any of the customs or courtesies that are due an officer. That said, I know when anyone called me "sir", I tried just a little harder - but anyone who demands any of these need to quickly be put in their place.

Now the yes part: Cadets/Candidates need to be encouraged to grow their knowledge and experience. One of the best ways of doing this is by putting them in real world officer situations. In other words, coming up with real solution to real problems. As such, I think it would be highly beneficial to assign them some officer work, such as drafting awards, conducting inspections (this will also give them a chance to actually LEARN what is going on in the different areas of the unit), or making schedules. Needless to say, someone with a real rank will need to double-check their work, but in the end the cadet/candidate will benefit from the gained experience and knowledge, and the unit will gain a competent new officer when they return.

Response by CPO Robin Beres made Oct 3 at 2017 3:20 PM

2017-10-03T15:20:10-04:00

When it doubt, whip it out -- that simple rule applies to both the saluter and the saluted.

Response by PO1 Michael Stai made Oct 6 at 2017 6:27 PM

2017-10-06T18:27:02-04:00

No your question answers it self Cadet not a commissioned Officer, not due any respect yet. I was a Cadet once I wouldn't have saluted back either

Response by SGT Steven Jones Sr. made Oct 7 at 2017 3:15 PM

2017-10-07T15:15:41-04:00

To a certain degree.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Oct 8 at 2017 2:10 AM

2017-10-08T02:10:07-04:00

No. They are not even commissioned. However, our superiors told us every year to consider them as 3rd lieutenants so we did address them as "Sir" and saluted them anyway. We were under orders to. There were two who joined my battery. The first was from Hudson High (West Point) and he had his shit together, acted like he knew better than to expect anything more than hospitality and had a good sense of humor. He got along well. The other one was a total dork. He wanted to go supersoldier, act like Rambo with the M-60, roomed in the barracks and needed a lot of watching. My platoon sergeant pranked him by putting a portable heater to the bottom of his boots while he was sleeping in the command Hummer and nearly set his feet on fire when we were in the field.

Response by Cpl Aaron Golbeck made Oct 8 at 2017 11:06 PM

2017-10-08T23:06:08-04:00

While stationed in Okinawa there was a J-Rat (JROTC) officer walking around telling Marine NCO's that he rated a salute. He made the mistake of saying this to a Gunnery Sergeant who said "come climb my rockers and get your fucking salute!" Well if that is good enough for a Gunny that is good enough for me lol!

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Oct 10 at 2017 10:13 AM

2017-10-10T10:13:42-04:00

Although Army regulations place cadets between WOs and NCOs, I think legally, it depends on whether the cadet has taken the oath of office. All cadets in the service academies take it when starting their first year (the "plebe" year) whereas ROTC cadets don't take it until they start MS III (junior year). Once the cadet takes the oath of office, they are "in" their respective service and subject to the UCMJ .

Response by William Smith made Oct 12 at 2017 1:49 AM

2017-10-12T01:49:59-04:00

this is just funny :) you dang cadets get off my lawn :)

Response by SSG Stephen Wondercheck made Oct 12 at 2017 7:07 PM

2017-10-12T19:07:26-04:00

Well it all depends on the Cadet due to the fact if they are barking up orders and thinking they earned the right to do it... they are not even in the army yet they can pop smoke and just be a rude douche it all depends on the person that soon will be a leader. Respect goes both ways not just one sided. If you want the respect then do it accordingly. Not just by the rank you wear!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2017 7:19 PM

2017-10-12T19:19:14-04:00

You aren't required to salute them as they are still training and aren't in a commissioned status. However don't be belligerent about it and don't treat them poorly because they haven't finished their schooling yet. Think about it in their eyes, if you were treated like shit by a bunch of E-5 and below before you hit commission you'll tend to think less of them. Regardless, it's not required.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Oct 13 at 2017 1:53 PM

2017-10-13T13:53:55-04:00

No. To be a great leader you must also be a good follower. They should earn the respect of being an Officer after they have proven themselves throughout their years at the Academy.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Oct 13 at 2017 1:56 PM

2017-10-13T13:56:33-04:00

No. A great leader must also be a great follower. They should earn the respect that is due an Officer by demonstrating their character throughout their time ar the Academy.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Oct 13 at 2017 2:02 PM

2017-10-13T14:02:15-04:00

No, until they are commissioned they should be Cadets, which is basically a student. They are there to learn. That is my opinion.

Response by PO2 Jim Johnson made Oct 13 at 2017 5:36 PM

2017-10-13T17:36:55-04:00

In short, no. Respect them for what they are doing, yes. Hasn't it been a long and time honored tradition for an officer, just graduated and commissioned to give a silver dollar to the first enlisted person to salute them? Or is that just an old wives tale?

Response by LtCol J W made Oct 13 at 2017 7:29 PM

2017-10-13T19:29:45-04:00

Not until they receive their commissions. Until then they don't rate a salute.

Response by SSG James Dennis made Oct 14 at 2017 10:41 AM

2017-10-14T10:41:42-04:00

We had cadets spend a few summer weeks with us when I was on the trail. Cadet Bradley Mock was the cadet for my PLT. He was a stand up guy that never conducted himself other that that of a professional.

Response by SPC Dwight Turner made Oct 16 at 2017 12:39 AM

2017-10-16T00:39:15-04:00

during basic at ft. dix in 1980 we had a soldier we didnt know he was going for ROTC SCHOOL afterwards drill sergeants treated him just like a soldier we never knew till we graduated from basic !!! i guess he thought we wouldnt show him respect so drill sergeants played it out whole time during basic

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2017 12:15 PM

2017-10-17T12:15:46-04:00

HAHA! Hell to the NO!

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Oct 18 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-10-18T10:01:29-04:00

Of course NOT. They haven't earned that right yet. It'd be worse than treating someone in boot camp as a Petty Officer.

Response by Capt Douglas Chilson made Oct 19 at 2017 5:28 AM

2017-10-19T05:28:34-04:00

As a former Cadet - No, Cadets are not officers and should not be saluted.
They salute each other, as a matter of ceremony and learning customs and courtesies, in case they graduate and are commissioned someday; but they are not officers... yet

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Oct 22 at 2017 6:49 PM

2017-10-22T18:49:36-04:00

Having dealt with many Cadets over the decades the best thing to do is treat them with some respect and take the opportunity to teach them the correct ways. You are not required to Salute them but in an effort to teach them you can but explain why. If you run into a "SPECIAL Cadet" that starts making demands and thinks they are that and a bag of potato chips you can either let the officer take care of him/her/it of if you are feeling truly evil turn them over to a Senior NCO and pray for their souls. These young folks should be guided and taught the correct way so they develop into fine leaders, ever now and then then you get a sacrificial one and its open season, better to weed out the wannabees then hope they don't squeeze their way through and become problem children. Officers in units are pretty good at policing them unless they also want to sacrifice one to a 1SG :)

Response by SGT Walter Lester made Oct 22 at 2017 7:07 PM

2017-10-22T19:07:16-04:00

Cadets are not Officers or NCO's until they pass and finish their training and have the rank to prove it. Cadets in school can be SP-4 or CPL they do not require a salute unless the person giving the salute is under the direct command of the cadet, and is directed to do so.

Response by SFC Erin Barnett made Oct 23 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-10-23T12:56:50-04:00

No salute is required, and none should be given. They should be address as "Cadet" and included in as much stuff as you can get them into. It is your chance to help develop your future leadership. Do not take it lightly.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2017 4:56 PM

2017-10-26T16:56:27-04:00

Should they? No. But I'm sure somewhere in the admin section of HQ, USMC there's some chickenshit flying a desk that is working on the order as we type.

Response by SPC Curt Brockway made Oct 26 at 2017 7:04 PM

2017-10-26T19:04:32-04:00

Not in my opinion.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Oct 26 at 2017 7:26 PM

2017-10-26T19:26:39-04:00

That's an interesting question; I've read about the hierarchical aspect they fit into, per se, in the past. I've read that all of the academy students, other than Kings Point, which I'd read is actually classed differently, as am NROTC program under MARAD in the Commerce Dept., are deemed to be on actual active duty, just like any service member. I'd never actually seen an instance of that myself, though, when I'd been Army ROTC, it'd never been mentioned, and, of course, then, back when dinos roamed the Earth, I'd never seen it there either. Now, interestingly, when I was at USAF OTS, we were actually paid as being at SSgt level, I know, asi still have the DD214 I'd been given when I'd finished the program!, it actually listed me that way, which I'd merely noted back then. That was issued, as one would be given a DD214 being discharged as an enlisted member, at time of commissioning, that was the only exposure I'd ever had to such things, however, as I'd mentioned, thought provoking question. At Kings Point, I'd read, the students there are paid at NROTC sutdemt rates, while on NROTC contract, though I'm not entirely sure how they're classed, per se, hierarchically, hope that was of interest, many thanks.

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made Oct 29 at 2017 5:25 PM

2017-10-29T17:25:24-04:00

When I was a Seaman in transit in San Diego in 1968, I happened across a Midshipman on a sidewalk, chewing out some Seaman Apprentice for not saluting. The Midshipman was condescending and I thought needed a lesson in protocol. I passed as he was releasing the unfortunate kid from his presence and he saw me, demanding to know, don't I salute officers when I encounter one. I turned and looked at him and said, "Officers, yes." Then walked off without saluting. Had I encountered him otherwise I probably would have saluted because it is a courtesy. But not after the demeaning show he had put on.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Oct 29 at 2017 6:05 PM

2017-10-29T18:05:00-04:00

No. Never salute a cadet or Officer Candidate. Administratively they are equal to a junior NCO. Treat them with the same respect and military courtesy you would an E-5 or E-6.

Response by 2LT Michael Bogle made Oct 30 at 2017 8:15 PM

2017-10-30T20:15:54-04:00

That's right.....it used to be clear back in the late 1970's....CTLT
was a special time.....all West Point
Cadets were Regular Army then, I don't know about now.....

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2017 2:06 AM

2017-10-31T02:06:41-04:00

Saluting a Cadet would be no different, in my opinion, than an enlisted member claiming to be a Veteran, still in your training days. You haven't made it to your first command, hell, you have contributed anything to the service you work for. Those are honors rendered to those that have, not those waiting to give.

Response by TSgt Robert Danley made Nov 1 at 2017 8:16 AM

2017-11-01T08:16:15-04:00

Cadets not rate a salute. They are trainees. While they are payed at the E-6 rate they officially have no rank, but are subject to the UCMJ. Therefore a skeeter wing private can lock their heels if they so deserve it.

Response by SPC Ron Walker made Nov 5 at 2017 10:08 AM

2017-11-05T10:08:32-05:00

We used to call them Cadidiots

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 5 at 2017 3:22 PM

2017-11-05T15:22:24-05:00

Why do 2 Lt's wear gold bars?
To distinguish them from officers.
And you ain't even a second Louie.
Shut up and go stand in the corner.

1SG Kelly

Response by PO1 Oscar the Veteran Submariner made Nov 7 at 2017 11:42 PM

2017-11-07T23:42:32-05:00

As an e-6 I was required to salute midshipmen, what's the harm in that? It is just a "hi, I see you" a greeting if you will. If they came on my boat, that was my world and I felt I had to teach them. That is what non coms and petty officers are for. "Ring Knockers" do not know everything, and the military gave us, the PO's and Sergeants, the training to instill in our future officers.

'

Response by PO1 Leo Scott made Nov 8 at 2017 2:10 AM

2017-11-08T02:10:33-05:00

As a NAVCAD in flight training we were not saluted. We had a barracks apart from either enlisted or officers. We were told we were to return a salute if one was given but not to expect nor request one.

Response by CPT Mike Corell made Nov 9 at 2017 5:52 PM

2017-11-09T17:52:10-05:00

No. How ever I was an ocs candidate after being prior service enlisted and I was going to take shit off some snot nose.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2017 5:56 PM

2017-11-09T17:56:37-05:00

They aren't officers yet. They are not afforded a salute.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Nov 16 at 2017 9:46 AM

2017-11-16T09:46:06-05:00

It's all about Respect.
Sometimes a friend of mine says the Earth is Flat. From his prespective of never been high enough to see the rounded horizon, he's correct. Wrong but correct according to his information. He's still a buddy of mine because he's a good guy.
I believe that if you're getting upset enough about 'salute a cadet or not', then you need more work to do. ~that's the old NCO thinking~
I saluted some officers I felt were a waste of air.
I saluted some NCOs and Enlisted that I respected - even though I wasn't required - since I wanted to show them my respect.
Though not required to salute Cadets, I still showed them the same respect I gave any person who had chossen service. That included saluting in appropiate (my commander had made him our PL and I respected my commander) situations. As the PSG, I made sure I sat down with my platoon ahead of time and explained when it would be nessesary to render proper courtesy plus what I expected of them.
A serviceman being disrespectful reflects on one's self as much as those they disrespect.
Either you have Respect or you don't. Either the leader sets the example or he doesn't.

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 16 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-11-16T10:01:14-05:00

If I heard that a private in my unit saluted a cadet and didn't get one in return, I would get all my E4 mafia brothers together and ensure that no one else saluted him, and that we would only call him by his last name. While doing this we would salute every other cadet especially while the one that didn't salute can see and use cadet in front of their last name when talking to them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2017 5:10 AM

2017-11-17T05:10:45-05:00

Last drill weekend we had an E-4 type put the cadet patch on and we don't treat her any different, she said not to salute.

Response by Cpl Dan A. made Nov 18 at 2017 1:24 PM

2017-11-18T13:24:51-05:00

What a sassy little sandwich maker... "go fuck yourself MAAM, you aren't even a damn butterbar yet."

Response by SGT Steven Hines made Nov 18 at 2017 1:37 PM

2017-11-18T13:37:19-05:00

He's not an officer yet. But you never know if you will run into him again when he is. Trust me its happened a few times.

Response by PFC Joseph Anthony made Nov 19 at 2017 12:20 AM

2017-11-19T00:20:32-05:00

Fuck no. I dealt with the same shit bo years ago. We were instructed to saluted the cadidiots by the ROTC cadre. I reported it to a mustang officer who refused and stated “why can’t I be here for the excitement..” it was psych ops at its finest - showing the cadets the power they would have as officers..

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2017 7:09 PM

2017-11-19T19:09:23-05:00

I have read a lot of the responses and the bigger question is why this boot, without having earned any respect, feels compelled to go around demanding to be saluted. Another issue is why a commissioned officer or SNCO hasn’t pulled this boot in and explain the way real military leadership works and how respect is earned. Sounds like another great commissioned officer in the making. Who needs SNCOs or NCOs when the little boot knows it all and can do it all. This is not the type of leadership that young enlisted soldiers need or look up to.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Nov 19 at 2017 8:59 PM

2017-11-19T20:59:25-05:00

No, they are not in the Army. They still get common military courtesy. I did not have issues with the CTLT cadets that came to Korea. They knew their place.

Response by PO1 Richard Nyberg made Nov 20 at 2017 4:55 PM

2017-11-20T16:55:20-05:00

When I was a Sgt in the Army and stationed in Germany in 1969 we had West Point Cadets assigned to our units for their Summer Training. We were told to test them as Officers and give the the courtesy of a salute. One day as I was walking over to the Motor Pool I had a Cadet running in the other direction and I gave him a salute and he just ran by and didn't acknowledge my salute so I yelled mister and when he stopped and came back I told him its common courtesy for an Officer to return an NCO's salute. He returned my salute and went on his way.

Response by 1stSgt Edward Jackson made Nov 20 at 2017 8:35 PM

2017-11-20T20:35:07-05:00

This conversation has turned in some respects a veteran/retired officer vs. a veteran/retired enlisted member. Therefore I'll drop out.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2017 10:00 PM

2017-11-23T22:00:08-05:00

No. They haven’t earned it yet.

Response by COL LaVoy Thiessen made Nov 23 at 2017 10:37 PM

2017-11-23T22:37:16-05:00

Seriously already? No, cadets should not be saluted until they are commissioned and any cadet insisting otherwise should be seriously counseled by a ranking officer to the contrary. Forget any regulation that directs otherwise and try a little common sense.

Response by Capt Drew Martinolich made Nov 24 at 2017 8:59 PM

2017-11-24T20:59:10-05:00

Being a former Cadet AND a former Officer in the United States Marine Corps (0602 / O3) - I can say that if this cadet was giving shit about enlisted saluting him/her than they are clearly not Officer material. The whole purpose of being a cadet and doing these camps with actual military was to let them OJT and learn what life really was like in the military...and to take a big ol' bite of humble pie. Clearly this officer was headed straight into POG territory where they would be a desk-ranger yelling at enlisted for minor infractions. Sad.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Nov 27 at 2017 10:56 AM

2017-11-27T10:56:41-05:00

Why is this even a question for an NCO? Cadets are students........................ that is the end of the discussion.

Response by TSgt M ichael Janousek made Nov 29 at 2017 10:22 PM

2017-11-29T22:22:54-05:00

NO your just cadets nothing more!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2017 10:20 AM

2017-11-30T10:20:52-05:00

As a former SMP (Simultaneous Membership Program with the National Guard) cadet and officer, absolutely not. There are way too many schools out there teaching cadets that they need to be an asshole to lead. As soon as they obtain the rank they puff their chest out and act important with two possible results: a good NCO puts them in their place and the junior officer grows and learns. The other is that the NCO puts them in their place and the ego gets in the way of growth which perpetuates the cycle of shit leaders. According to a CSM I had, in some hidden regulation you are supposed to salute cadets and treat them like an officer. But here is the thing, the rank doesn't fit into the structure so there is of course no authority behind the cadet rank. My SMP Unit treated us like stray dogs they had to keep until they figured out some of us weren't complete turds. If the cadet has had any decent guidance they should know a good leader is a good follower first. A great euphemism to use is caditiot.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Nov 30 at 2017 11:07 AM

2017-11-30T11:07:00-05:00

Idcread simukarvthings, I knew they're enlisted military at USAFA, Annapolis, West Poibt, and USCGA, though when my brother was at Kings Point I'd heard that program is, legally, NROTC, I gathered. When I was at USAF OTS, I knew I was enlisted at SSgt rank and paid as such, I was given a DD214 from enlisted when I was commissioned listing me explicitly as SSgt, I'd seen the article posted here, and had heard that cadets outrank enlisted, and are below warrant officers, though, as a matter of practical grave and sheer good manners, I've always understood that cadets and midshipmen wouldn't expect to be saluted typically, though they're of course expected to salute, of course, hope that was all correct, just some thoughts, many thanks, when I'd been at USAF OTS, and in Army ROTC, when I'd seen cadets interacting at The best Piubt and midshipmen at Kings Piunt, they saluted one another, as part of their regimental training, as did I, as an officer trainee (OT), that was of course the norm I'd found for such precommission traibees. Interestingly, the USAF OTS drove past me in his eagle license plate staff car, we'd been told to salute it, which I did once. Also, the Lt. Gen. Commanding my installation did drive past me where I was, I did salute, while driving, he did see me, and saluted back, which was my only direct interaction with him other than once at a briefing I'd attended, when I'd been asked if I had anything to say, I'd said, as did all others in the room, "Nothing, sir", I realized that had been expected, which I did note with interest, many thanks.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Nov 30 at 2017 11:08 AM

2017-11-30T11:08:07-05:00

Sorry for typos, I'd !want West Point, clumsy tablet keyboard...

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2017 9:23 AM

2017-12-01T09:23:48-05:00

When I was a midshipmen, we did not warrant a salute. If someone rendered it, I would return it smartely as a sign of respect. They are not commissioned and therefore are not required to be saluted. They should be treated like men and women who will one day be leading you. Take the opportunity to train them and guide them down the right path.

Response by CPT William Jones made Dec 3 at 2017 7:22 AM

2017-12-03T07:22:19-05:00

Afforded the respect and courtesies of an officer, yes. Salute? No. I served as enlisted prior to going back to school and Army ROTC. I was a CTLT cadet at FT Lewis for 4 weeks in the mid-80s. I took advantage to see how the Officers did their jobs and dealt with issue, and I also spent time with the E-6s up to find out the qualities they want to see in new 2LTs. The CO told the troops to address me as sir, and that was it. The troops never saluted me, and I didn’t expect them to. As note by many, some Officer trainees have egos larger than their hat size. As a CO later in my career, I found it useful to have the 1SG or CSM have a first run at large egos before I got involved. In most cases, it ended there.

Response by CWO2 Bob Schweikert made Dec 3 at 2017 2:49 PM

2017-12-03T14:49:29-05:00

I don't think they should salute ensigns/2nd Lts. (Gr)

Response by SPC Nils Hammer made Dec 4 at 2017 4:47 PM

2017-12-04T16:47:41-05:00

1976 just out of basic at the interrogator school I passed someone with the butter-bars and saluted. She was a cadet and giggled like an 8th grader. She did try to salute though, so I guess it was a learning experience. Don't expect all encounters to have clear status. At DLI Monterrey we had an e1 with military bearing, and whenever he walked down the hill with the sun at his back even officers would salute him.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2017 2:30 PM

2017-12-06T14:30:34-05:00

We were always advised to salute them since they would end up being assigned to our unit later on when they were commissioned. If they didn't end up in our unit they went to battalion and became an even bigger pain there. However, if they did make a big deal about someone not saluting them or "honoring their 'rank'" a seasoned NCO would take them to the side and handle it.

Response by LtCol Mac McCarty made Dec 6 at 2017 11:02 PM

2017-12-06T23:02:06-05:00

The short answer is they should be saluted and should return salutes just as does any officer. We had this question come up some 35 years ago when I was the Military Law Instructor and the only judge advocate assigned to The Basic School. (Yes, I was an infantry officer (0302) before I went to law school on the Excess Leave Program as a Major, commanded three companies, and continued to carry a secondary MOS of 0302.) After poring through many different sources, I advised the Commanding Officer that Naval Academy Midshipmen assigned to TBS as part of their 2d Class Summer, were, appointed officers (just as are Warrant Officers-1), and they were senior to enlisted sailors and Marines. They are junior to Warrant Officer-1 and, obviously, junior to commissioned officers. However, they were not required to render salutes TO 2d Lieutenants attending TBS. (At that time, one could still say "rank among lieutenants is like virginity amon......."; well the old salts will remember.)
[START VENT]I have to say that an awful lot of comments about 2d Lieutenants here on RALLY POINT--it seems to come from the Army, mostly--give me pause. I cannot believe the number of SNCO's who seem to presume that a 2d Lieutenant is just some sort of trainee to be groomed by SNCOs. That may or may not be true in the Army, but I assure you that (1) any enlisted man who presumes that a 2d Lieutenant of Marines, commissioned by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, is not a "real" officer is risking an awful lot, and (2) any 2d Lieutenant--at least in the Marine Corps--leaves TBS with the sure and certain knowledge that he or she owes Staff NCOs (and NCOs) the professional courtesy and respect that come with their age and experience, and they fail to listen and learn from NCOs at their own professional peril. But when the chips are down, it is the Lieutenant who is in command, and good NCOs know that. Oh, and 2d Lieutenants, no matter what MOS, leave TBS not only knowing how to use a map and a compass, but how to teach it to the troops. [END VENT] Carry on.

Response by SGT Alexander Brigham made Dec 7 at 2017 2:20 PM

2017-12-07T14:20:05-05:00

If you are already getting this type of attitude I hope that Cadet wakes up or gets out I see the potential for a really shitty officer like the one I had in Afghanistan. I never did anything to him but he'd go out of his way to f with me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2017 5:30 PM

2017-12-09T17:30:02-05:00

I'm about to sign a ROTC contract. I've only been in 2 years, I don't deserve a salute. I feel like most prior service cadets hate being called sir/cadet and getting saluted. To be honest, I look forward to becoming an officer but i know I'm not one right now. Gives cadets an opportunity to lead and give them a lot of tasks to do at drill so they aren't ate up when they commission but I don't want a salute until I earn my rank.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 3:12 AM

2017-12-11T03:12:52-05:00

No. They should be treated with the appropriate level of respect due a very green E5.

Response by SPC John Smith made Dec 18 at 2017 10:12 AM

2017-12-18T10:12:15-05:00

My experiences cut both ways.
1st example, my infantry unit was frequently assigned cadets for summer training and observation. Mostly they were sort of ghosts. Not to interact with the platoon nor were we to interact with them. All discussions between the cadets and the unit were handled by the brass. One particular summer, we had a cadet that was high speed as hell, interested in learning, not afraid to dig a foxhole with the rest of us, pull the shittiest security (2:00 3:00) so that the gunners were well rested, Haul water cans and ammo boxes, etc., etc. He basically showed that he was one of us and willing to do whatever was needed to contribute to the success of the unit. Add to that his aptitude for the technical requirements of leadership, strategic planning, land nav, asset allocation,etc. and you can see that this cadet was going places and would be a true leader in the future. He did so without placing himself above any member of the platoon or any complaints about doing the grunt work of life in an infantry platoon. That cadet was well respected by the entire platoon and nobody had a problem with saluting or calling the platoon bay to attention when he arrived in the morning. His respect was earned and never requested.

2nd example, Airborne school '89. Two cadets were in our training platoon and never have I witnessed such pogue behavior. One specific incident comes to mind. While reforming after chow break, the two cadets were sitting on their asses, making a game of throwing rocks at the helmets in formation to pass the time until the platoon returned from chow, (they were always first in the chow line). Ssg. Black Hat told them to stop and to get on their feet and study as was required while waiting for the platoon to form. They both sort of smirked like frat boys and one decided to tell Ssg. Black Hat that he outranked the Ssg. and that Ssg. Black Hat should watch his tone. I'm not quite certain but I think I saw Ssg. Black hat actually levitate for a few minutes as he "informed and corrected" the cadet. Something to the effect of, " Listen here, Dotty. You aren't even in this man's Army yet. You are disrespecting the equipment of soldiers that are currently serving our country while you take a break from Mary-Jane and the classroom to play Army for a few weeks. If I see you disrespect another soldier again, I'll take a personal interest in seeing that you never see a commission." I don't remember seeing Mr. vocal cadet at graduation but the other made it through the cycle, treated as the piece of dirt he was. I think he may have learned that rank alone doesn't determine authority or respect.

The above examples show that the cycle of command is, to a degree, earned. Cadets may have a claim to authority in some vague AR ruling but real world dictates to whom respect is shown.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 18 at 2017 3:30 PM

2017-12-18T15:30:31-05:00

I feel like the painfully obvious answer is no, they should not be treated like commissioned officers since they haven't been commissioned as officers yet... Its not about getting out of saluting, its about whether or not the rank deserves the salute. Now that I'm out there are a half dozen LTs I would never salute if I saw them on the streets because they couldn't lead troops out of a paper bag. The only thing that "earned" them that salute while I was in was 4 years of college, so if a kid hasn't even got that under his belt I'm sure not treating him like a commissioned officer.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Dec 18 at 2017 5:24 PM

2017-12-18T17:24:15-05:00

They should not even be treated as Human until they are 1LT.

Response by TSgt Shawn Farris made Dec 19 at 2017 6:34 PM

2017-12-19T18:34:13-05:00

No, but this is what you tell her. You explain what the salute means. Then you tell her if you want them to salute you, salute them first; they have to return it. And call them on it if they don't. Eventually they will always salute.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Dec 20 at 2017 6:33 PM

2017-12-20T18:33:45-05:00

As I understand, a cadet in the four service academies are actually members of his or her respective service. For instance, a West Point cadet is actually a member of the regular army. An ROTC cadet is still a civilian who hasn't entered the military yet.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2017 5:13 PM

2017-12-23T17:13:57-05:00

This is too cute. Also, the answer is no.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2017 9:21 AM

2017-12-28T09:21:04-05:00

No absolutely not. in the 80s we had cadets from the Air Force Academy try the same thing, our base commander put that one to rest immediately.

Response by SPC Dale West made Dec 29 at 2017 11:56 PM

2017-12-29T23:56:56-05:00

So if cadets should get the same respect commisioned officers get, then how is it when I was at West Point every time I saw a cadet walking around out of uniform and I corrected them, I was informed by actual commissioned officers I was in the wrong for doing so., because they don't "technically" fall under the Uniform Regulations or UCMJ like the rest of the military does.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2017 1:37 AM

2017-12-30T01:37:52-05:00

Being in the VTARNG we always had DOTs from Norwich and a few other schools train with us. The upperclassmen that were assigned to my company/troop would be given the same courtesy as a new 2LT since many of them, upon graduation, would actually be new platoon leaders and I wanted them to get the feel for being a leader. I also wanted the junior enlisted soldiers to be respectful since many of them didn't understand the ROTC system and rank. As I recall a DOT gets the same pay as an E5.

Response by SFC Russell Shaw made Dec 30 at 2017 8:43 AM

2017-12-30T08:43:32-05:00

Sounds like a communication problem. The cadet either does not know their regulations, or they are bullies with a partial license. The other side is most enlisted do not know the regulation either. Not sure how things are done but I would sit my Cadet down and inform them on the regulation as soon as they are assigned and do the same for my team. If the same Cadet earns the respect from others they may begin to salute out of respect, which is earned not given. These Cadets are going to be officers one day the best thing we can do a upper NCO's is help them to become the best officer they can be. This means the officer and the NCO may have to come to a new level of emotional intelligence which is the true sign of a growing leader.

Response by LCpl Kareem Dixon made Dec 31 at 2017 2:29 PM

2017-12-31T14:29:04-05:00

No!

Response by SSG John Doub made Dec 31 at 2017 4:48 PM

2017-12-31T16:48:58-05:00

The cadet is not even in the US Military nor a qualified soldier. Until they are commissioned, they are just a college kid. Prior service ROTC folks should not be the ones doing this and it is better to get the young "officers to be" to better understand what Leadership is. Square that away IMO

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2017 5:40 PM

2017-12-31T17:40:34-05:00

As a cadet, No. We are college students who are in training to be officers, not officers yet. I've had fellow cadets point out how we 'out rank' enlisted troops (AR 600-20) but we haven't done anything but go to class, LLAB and do some PT. That's about it. If you're working with Cadets, please see them as future officers who are trying to find their own leadership style. So, if you work with them and help mold them, future enlisted troops will thank you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2018 1:43 AM

2018-01-03T01:43:12-05:00

It would be most appropriate to refer to them as "Cadet" or "Midshipman" as that is what they are until commissioned.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Jan 6 at 2018 6:38 PM

2018-01-06T18:38:35-05:00

No.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Jan 6 at 2018 6:57 PM

2018-01-06T18:57:51-05:00

No.

Response by SSG Bill Cooke made Jan 7 at 2018 12:37 AM

2018-01-07T00:37:48-05:00

No because they are not yet commissioned.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2018 9:42 PM

2018-01-08T21:42:34-05:00

A cadet once told me to look at his rank and said I outrank you. Cadet got in trouble and lost his scholarship and is now a Specialist. I don't mind cadets I do mind cadets that walk around with a power-trip haven't met any yet.

Response by SPC Stephan Baker made Jan 11 at 2018 11:46 PM

2018-01-11T23:46:08-05:00

I had to laugh at this question when I saw it. since you are saying it's whether or not to salute them then.. it's not as funny. however if you are asking if they should be treated the same regardless... then to me, it's hilarious. most MPs and security will tell you that cadets and LTs will think that they are special when in reality they aren't... which is why we have NCOs... and MPs

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made Jan 12 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-01-12T08:52:30-05:00

NO, although the unit officers tried to push that relationship when I was a young soldier. As a reserve MSG, I worked with cadets at ROTC Advance Camp and worked with cadets for 3 years at West Point as NCOIC of Cadet Basic and Military Intersession. They were treated like any other "junior" soldier as they should. They have their own hierarchy of military courtesy that treats their TAC NCO's and Officers and enlisted instructors like me as superiors until they get "pinned". When I got that honor , I was presented the traditional silver dollar for the first salute.

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made Jan 12 at 2018 9:03 AM

2018-01-12T09:03:03-05:00

Uh... No. they got a lot to learn and that program is there to provide that, secondly they need to also understand the value of the enlisted cadre. You are a good leader because of what your troops do, how they conduct themselves, and what they bring to the table in a pinch. That is a reflection on you but you'd be a fool not to listen to their council from time to time. This is why enlisted train officers. If an officer loses sight of that they will find themselves behind the bell curve even every time. cadets need to see that first hand. Until they get it then no they are not officers.

Response by SSG Curtis Taylor made Jan 12 at 2018 2:24 PM

2018-01-12T14:24:15-05:00

I agree. Cadets are NOT officers nor are then NCO's. They may be placed in charge of details, for training purposes but they do not have rank. I remember one time when I was a SSG talking to another SSG and a SFC and this cadet started barking at us to unload a truck. We all looked at each other then flipped our collars out over our LBE. This made the cadet angry and he barked while pointing at his dot "Do you know what this is?!?!?". To which we replied in unison "An aiming point?"

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Jan 12 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-01-12T19:49:49-05:00

Old post but heres my take on it.

The first thing you have to ask yourself is whats the difference between showing courtesy to an NCO, Commissioned or warrant officer and a civilian as compared to a cadet. The answer is not much.

1. For service members and cadets the title and title of address is different between them
2. Commissioned and warrant officers get saluted the rest do not
3. We call everyone sir or ma'am except for NCOs

Other than that we should be treating each other, regardless of rank, with the same courtesy and politeness that anyone shows anyone else. And so what if the commander wants to train a cadet in the role a 2LT would do? there is most likely a method to their perceived madness. Honoring the process and your commander will give them the information they need to properly mentor and train the cadet under their command.

Also there is another reason they do this and I think I like President Lincolns take on it best. It goes, "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 13 at 2018 12:37 AM

2018-01-13T00:37:24-05:00

IMO They should be treated as any other recruit until the receive their commission.

Response by PO2 David Ball made Jan 15 at 2018 10:18 PM

2018-01-15T22:18:24-05:00

Um nope, and it's your job as an NCO is showing them in the regs why... They are not... It's called training of which this cadet did not receive.. Check Title 10 of the US Code for more detail. Hell, I'm sure with your smartphone you can get the information and train that cadet... With the respect that is still required ...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2018 11:08 PM

2018-01-16T23:08:17-05:00

The "dot" represents that the individual is a cadet, meaning that the individual is in TRAINING to be an officer. Read: not yet an officer, therefore no salute.

Furthermore, there should be zero equivalent to any sort of enlisted rank especially an NCO, as NCOs have spent much longer in the Army than cadets and have much more experience.

Nonetheless, the responsibilities of an NCO and a student cadet are much different. They should not hold any rank equivalency whatsoever.

Response by MAJ Sean Fay made Jan 18 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-01-18T10:17:43-05:00

First: You ALWAYS return a salute. I've been accidentally saluted by officers when I was enlisted because the Unit Crest on my beret looked like a Major's Oak Leaf from a distance. You ALWAYS return a salute, not least because they're supposed to hold theirs until you do, but mostly because it's a sign of respect and you should return those, even if they're offered accidentally. You can then sort out the situation and laugh at someone's eyesight but you should never laugh at someone being respectful. That's called courtesy and it's the entire reason we salute in the first place.

Your Private did the right thing in accordance with his training. We were all taught in Basic: "When in doubt, whip it out." Some officer needs to help out that cadet with a little honest professional development. It's entirely possible that the cadet was told that they shouldn't return salutes because they "haven't earned that privilege". I happen to disagree. See the paragraph above.

Also, there should be no doubt in any soldier's mind what the expectations are within that unit. That's an oversight on the part of the leadership and needs to be publicly addressed. "I expect every one of my soldiers to salute my cadets, and I expect my cadets to return them properly." This was one of my command policies and yes, it was in writing. (Then the CO should take the cadets aside and tell them that other units may have different policies, so don't go setting themselves up for failure.)

Your cadets are regularly assigned soldiers to your drilling unit. AR 600-20, Section 2: (3) says Senior (..ity of) regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. This means they actually do outrank every enlisted person in the unit. Whether they are saluted or not, is subject to local command policy but that policy should be clearly communicated to all.

Good on you for following up like you promised your Private you would.

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Jan 20 at 2018 10:23 PM

2018-01-20T22:23:53-05:00

I remember a two week COMSEC class I took TDY many years ago an an ROTC cadet had no idea about securing classified materials.

Response by PO3 Phyllis Maynard made Jan 21 at 2018 7:22 AM

2018-01-21T07:22:17-05:00

The regulation is the regulation right COL Charles Williams . King Tut was the boy Pharoh.

Response by SPC Robert Bowen made Jan 21 at 2018 1:21 PM

2018-01-21T13:21:32-05:00

We had to deal with these idiots in basic training. You could tell that the drill Sgts were frustrated with having to not deal with them and wipe their asses when they needed to concentrate on training us. One of these snot nosed little pecker woods, who I swear his balls hadn't even dropped, decided to start giving me crap. I wasn't having it and told him off. He told a drill and the drill smoked me but all I could do is laugh the whole time at this idiot. They don't deserve to be treated as anything until they get their commission. Even then, everybody knows non commissioned officers really run the show

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2018 4:42 PM

2018-01-21T16:42:46-05:00

I would say it is more official and proper when one receives their commission in writing from the President of the United States, which I received via OCS.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 22 at 2018 7:09 AM

2018-01-22T07:09:49-05:00

I know we don’t have to yet(i’ ve Been out a while, i’m Going back a way.. when I was in) I look at as giving them practice returning salutes.. I could tell the 3d year and 4th year from the 1st and 2d year cadets and the 3d n 4th ur are usually the Officer cadets..

Response by Cadet CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2018 11:28 AM

2018-01-23T11:28:24-05:00

Let’s put it this way, I’m a Cadet. It’s my personal opinion that we haven’t earned the right to be saluted or to be given that respect. Even the lowest private generally has more experience as they’ve gone to basic and AIT, or OSUT. The only exception to this is if a Cadet was prior service. So in essence, No I don’t think that cadets have earned the right to be saluted. Give us something to work for when we commission and remind us we still have a long way to go.

Response by PO1 Craig N Ynna Pierce made Jan 23 at 2018 3:16 PM

2018-01-23T15:16:44-05:00

She sounds like areal winner that one.

Response by Sgt Lester Mount made Jan 27 at 2018 8:19 AM

2018-01-27T08:19:19-05:00

unless it has changed they are paid the same as a corporal so if they do not get an officer's pay why would they think they are officers? you don't salute a cadet, unless you are a cadet and a pretend higher ranking cadet it present.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Jan 28 at 2018 11:40 PM

2018-01-28T23:40:24-05:00

No. As a cadet the SM has not earned the right of being treated as a commissioned officer.

Response by PVT John Williams made Jan 29 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-01-29T11:30:09-05:00

Not until they’re commissioned,no.

Response by Reginald Odom made Jan 29 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-01-29T12:13:30-05:00

It should be and the cadet should have returned the salute.

Response by SGT Derek Blackshire made Jan 30 at 2018 3:04 PM

2018-01-30T15:04:59-05:00

A tricky situation I would say yes and no let me explain. I have work in both combat and combat support units. I would generally say no but if the cadet is in a leadership role such as an acting Platoon Leader then yes as they are in a acting leadership role. They are doing on job training. This has been my experience in unit I have been in.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 4 at 2018 6:46 AM

2018-02-04T06:46:38-05:00

NO. They are LEARNING to become Commissioned officers.

Response by MAJ Lyle F. Padilla made Feb 5 at 2018 1:52 PM

2018-02-05T13:52:26-05:00

There is the Simultaneous Membership Program where Army ROTC cadets may enlist in an Army National Guard unit and drill with them a full TO&E member. They wear cadet rank insignia but are on the rosters as E-5s, with the pay, benefits and privileges thereof, unless the individual had achieved a higher enlisted rank prior to enrolling in ROTC in which case that would be his/her pay grade. As a practical matter, a cadet is often placed in a platoon leader's slot to get a head start on the duties of a commissioned officer, but is NOT awarded the privileges of a commissioned officer such as saluting.

Response by SPC Mike Lake made Feb 5 at 2018 10:17 PM

2018-02-05T22:17:42-05:00

Nope

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2018 12:45 AM

2018-02-07T00:45:52-05:00

to put it one way is treat them as they are to be treated. meaning, do you want them to learn how to be a good officer? then treat them like one. regs support the salute. its not reinforced. I suggest you increase their responsibilities slowly. you make sure that they are saluted. you make sure they learn what it means. make sure they understand the weight of command. if they screw up. take the salute away.

Response by Sgt Brian Moore made Feb 8 at 2018 10:48 AM

2018-02-08T10:48:24-05:00

Personally, I say "no" because they have not achieved any rank nor completed their ROTC or Academy. When I went to Parris Island in March 1985, we had several "privates" (as we were addressed at the time). Several of the prior military were NCO's in another branch but they were not treated any different than anyone else. Those of us that were raised right, gave them respect for their prior service but you were "just another swinging dic..." in our platoon. Our guide was a prior E5 in the Army but that didn't mean shit to the DI's or other members in the platoon. I personally gave respect because of prior experience but often asked myself if you have 4 years Army or Navy, why go back to being an E-1 or E-2 rather than and E-5 to be in the USMC? Until you have crossed the Parade Deck and are officially "ordained" a Marine...you are nothing more that someone trying to attain the title. You decide, someone just getting off the bus and on the "yellow footprints" are the same as the guy crossing the Parade Deck that afternoon...I THINK NOT! Signed Brian L. Moore, SGT, 1985-1991, USMC

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 12:14 AM

2018-02-15T00:14:57-05:00

The answer is in the question. Cadets - Commissioned Officers. Why would there be two different titles?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 1:07 AM

2018-02-15T01:07:39-05:00

No. Enough said.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Feb 15 at 2018 9:26 PM

2018-02-15T21:26:49-05:00

No. They should be respected but not saluted.

Response by SGT James Clark made Mar 1 at 2018 12:11 PM

2018-03-01T12:11:10-05:00

I say until they earn the rank my answer is NO.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 3 at 2018 12:08 AM

2018-03-03T00:08:57-05:00

No they should not. And in this case the cadet should have been politely but firmly reminded that returning a salute is part and parcel of the customs and courtesies of the military.

One thing, the sea services (Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard) follow different saluting customs and courtesies then the Army and the Air Force. We don't salute indoors unless under arms. We don't salute uncovered (we should be covered outside unless there is some overriding safety concern). Hence the polite but firm approach. Any sea service Midshipmen should render a proper greeting if saluted when their traditions don't call for it, and a polite explanation if they are called on not saluting.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 3 at 2018 11:08 AM

2018-03-03T11:08:33-05:00

They are not commissioned yet and do not rate the full honors, etc. accorded to Officers. With that being said, they o right common courtesy- remember you might be seeing down the road as your PL.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2018 8:15 PM

2018-03-03T20:15:07-05:00

I had a large break in service from 02 to 09, during my first term we treated cadets possibly worse than privates. During my second after coming back I got a stern talking to from my co for not saluting a west point cadet. No one knows what's going on anymore.

Response by SSG Guy Gould made Mar 3 at 2018 9:54 PM

2018-03-03T21:54:23-05:00

The short and long answer is NO.

Response by Lt Col John Van Huffel made Mar 6 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-03-06T21:59:25-05:00

Okay, just my $.02... When I was a cadet I appreciated every salute and returned it in kind. And never got butt-hurt when it wasn't offered. If the ROTC cadre aren't schooling the cadets in humility this is a shame. The best advice I received from my cadre when I commissioned was to find a SNCO and glue myself to their butt and learn all I could.

Response by COL Larry Curtin made Mar 7 at 2018 6:53 PM

2018-03-07T18:53:10-05:00

Sound to me that this Cadet doesn’t need to be commissioned - while rank has its privilege, she should work on earning respect instead of demanding it.

Response by SGT Thomas Mitchell made Mar 11 at 2018 3:25 PM

2018-03-11T15:25:42-04:00

My only experience with military cadets was during summer months at the U.S. Army Signal School at Fort Gordon GA (since rebranded as the U.S. Army Cyber Center . . .). Enlisted troops were instructed to respond to cadets when addressed with "Mister" much like in the Navy. Other courtesies were extended to cadets during formations if the cadet was substituting for an [absent] platoon leader. First sergeants and platoon sergeants were religious in their scrutiny of any acts of omission of military customs and courtesy. This I believe was as much for the professional education of future second lieutenants as for the enlisted troops.

The original post indicated that a private soldier had rendered courtesy to a cadet who failed to return a salute. I would suggest that the cadet probably needed some remedial instruction in this case. Although the field manuals do not address the issue in depth (as pointed out in other responses), if a cadet is placed with an active or a reserve component, they should be learning a great deal that they are not necessarily exposed to in the classroom or in advanced camp. This would include decorum expected of a commissioned officer. This would include responsibility to and respect for all ranks (including interacting with enlisted personnel without displaying overly familiar behavior).

Response by Capt Jerry Sanders made Mar 11 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-03-11T19:04:10-04:00

I'm not sure if it's the same thing but when I was in Marine PLC we were paid as E5.
I was given the impression in no uncertain terms that we were lower than whale dung,
I expected no salute from my D.I..

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2018 10:24 PM

2018-03-11T22:24:30-04:00

If a cadet demands a salute from you, you can laugh in their face and walk away. Someone who used to be a cadet, I used to be saluted my enlisted personnel that I always thought was a mistake because it's hard to tell what the hell cadet rank looks like from far away; better safe than sorry. But never would I expect a salute from an enlisted person. Cadets still have to salute all commissioned officers, that hasn't changed...and I can't even remember if we saluted other "higher ranking" cadets...it sounds really stupid now kind of thinking about it if we did (but it could also have been shaping/molding us to get used to the idea of saluting higher ranking officers and a better understanding of customs and courtesies)

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 8:42 PM

2018-03-19T20:42:39-04:00

Short answer is no. Long answer is no. In any event, no. Not until granted a commission by the President of the United States.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-03-21T08:52:06-04:00

A cadet is a Soldier in training to be an officer. They should be given the respect and responsibilities of an officer (LT) but watched closely to ensure they are successfully learning to be an officer. Yes, If they are SMP they have a pay grade of an E5 but that doesn’t mean that’s their level of responsibility or rank. They should be assisting in officer positions such as asst platoon leader. They out rank every CSM in the Army. And as NCOs it is our duty to make sure they don’t grow up to be idiots. If you mistreat them as cadets you will grow up to mistreat their soldiers. I’ve seen it happen.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Mar 21 at 2018 11:32 AM

2018-03-21T11:32:02-04:00

Be professional at all times. As a professional military man or woman it's your duty to help train that cadet to be a professional as well. You can show the proper respect and still hold the high ground. While summer cadets are learning from your training and experience, they are also learning for the first time, how the real world military functions. They are coming from a regimented, dusk 'til dawn controlled environment where rank has it's privileges and comes with higher expectations of accountability and responsibility. It's not a reflection of your loss of dignity as an enlisted man no more than it is when a Sgt Maj salutes a 2nd Lt or Ensign. Just be professional, salute the rank, and carry on.

Response by PO3 David Greeley made Mar 28 at 2018 1:04 AM

2018-03-28T01:04:06-04:00

In a word, no.

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Mar 29 at 2018 4:15 PM

2018-03-29T16:15:11-04:00

A Butter Bar LT has at least graduated college to get a commission, and thus is due a salute. A Warrant Officer has put some serious knowledge and skill to use, then gone above and beyond to earn that W rank, and thus is due a salute. A cadet has signed up to go to school with an idea that, should graduation be achieved, might actually be awarded a commission in the future. However, "cadet" means it hasn't happened yet, and thus, the cadet is not due any salute. Hello, good day, how are you? that any other human deserves is fine, but nothing more out of this veteran, thank you very much.

Response by COL Charles Cook made Mar 31 at 2018 8:30 AM

2018-03-31T08:30:18-04:00

As a former plt ldr, co cdr and Bn Cdr, we welcomed the cadets. We had them gain experience by shadowing w a new officer each week. They were treated w respect as '3rd Lt's" and addressed as Cadet .... We never had a problem.

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Mar 31 at 2018 8:47 AM

2018-03-31T08:47:28-04:00

You do NOT salute any Cadet.

Response by SGT Sean Hale made Apr 2 at 2018 12:37 PM

2018-04-02T12:37:59-04:00

During my 4 years at Ft drum we had the pleasure of training west point cadets during numerous summer semesters and during their in brief they were instructed by their cadre that they are not commissioned officers and are not to expect to be treated as such.

Response by SFC Nate Robertson made Apr 2 at 2018 2:40 PM

2018-04-02T14:40:53-04:00

The cadet should have either returned the salute or given an on the spot correction if un warranted. Young pre officers need to learn military customs and courtesies but most of all they show respect to everyone!!!

Response by Lt Col Robert Canfield made Apr 2 at 2018 3:15 PM

2018-04-02T15:15:37-04:00

One of the things I wish they would do a better job of teaching "Future Officers in Training" is, some humility. In modern day speak, they are "Padowan Learners" and need to learn the subtleties and nuances of becoming a leader. The trappings of position (the gold bar, the salute, being addressed as sir etc.) will come as you mature through your training. Don't try to eat your desert before the main meal. A bit of advice for cadets who expect a salute from an NCO: be patient, the first salute you get after you pin on that gold bar will probably be the most memorable, (so wait for it). Just be sure to have your silver dollar ready.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Apr 4 at 2018 12:44 PM

2018-04-04T12:44:24-04:00

NO.....They are trainees, and should be treated as such. Now I dont think they should be MIStreated....But the training NEEDS to be tough.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Apr 8 at 2018 11:31 AM

2018-04-08T11:31:07-04:00

Not commissioned---not saluted. Respect can be shown for what he or she is doing but salute not required.

Response by SFC Bill Meeler made Apr 8 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-04-08T22:37:24-04:00

While assigned to an academic department at West Point in the late 80's we as NCO's did NOT salute Cadets. And corrected Cadets when they saluted NCO's. It did not happen a lot but it did happen, I tried to be very discrete when informing a cadet that they do not salute enlisted personnel. They were require to salute officers no matter what rank.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2018 4:14 PM

2018-04-13T16:14:49-04:00

No.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2018 10:02 PM

2018-04-14T22:02:06-04:00

noooooo

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 1:36 PM

2018-04-18T13:36:18-04:00

Cadets are paid E-5 pay of they are already enlisted i the National Gaurd and decide to go OCS. During their time in the ROTC Prgram, they're considered cadets. When they are brought to a unit, they are no saluted because they're not officers yet. To my understanding, salutes are only rendered to officers and warrant officers. A cadet is neither of the two at that moment.

Response by SSG Thomas Werstlein made Apr 19 at 2018 1:40 PM

2018-04-19T13:40:33-04:00

Saluting a Cadet is required as the Army places Cadets above Enlisted. With that said, while I was stationed at Hood in 4th ID we would only salute the Cadets that understood they were there to observe and learn, they were not Active Duty, and did not show up thinking they were the shit and demanding we treat them like commissioned officers.

Response by LTC Jack Regan made Apr 20 at 2018 11:37 PM

2018-04-20T23:37:22-04:00

No one saluted me in OCS - quite the opposite. You salute the rank, not the position. I have no idea why she thought she deserved a salute having not yet achieved the rank. I'm not sure of the exact regulation but a salute to an officer cadet does not seem right.

Response by SSG John Marlow made Apr 22 at 2018 9:06 AM

2018-04-22T09:06:02-04:00

they have to get that right 1st

Response by SCPO John Millar made Apr 22 at 2018 5:31 PM

2018-04-22T17:31:22-04:00

No cadet rates a salute when they are out of the school environment

Response by SFC Kenneth Lord made Apr 23 at 2018 1:49 PM

2018-04-23T13:49:48-04:00

When working with ROTC and Other Cadet Officers in the late 1060's we were told to Treat them as OFFICERS ! Therefore we were saluting them during training times on active duty.

Response by LCDR John DelRose, CDPE, ABR, CBR made Apr 24 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-04-24T10:10:01-04:00

I went to OCS in Newport R.I. The only time any enlisted saluted me was right after I got my commission so I could give them a dollar

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Apr 24 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-04-24T11:53:43-04:00

When I was in the Reserves as a cadet we were treated as an E-5/SGT and referred to as a cadet. I am a prime example, I resigned my active duty scholarship in good academic standing to return to active duty as an enlisted soldier, never commissioned, therefore never earned the right to be saluted.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Apr 25 at 2018 5:55 AM

2018-04-25T05:55:20-04:00

Give the respect due an officer, that's it, just no salute.

Response by CWO4 Jim McLeod made Apr 27 at 2018 4:06 AM

2018-04-27T04:06:52-04:00

My daughter was JROTC in high school and achieved the rank of captain in her company, as such, the "enlisted" JROTC students were expected to salute their JROTC officers as in the active duty. After graduation she received a full scholarship to Georgia Military College in the Early Commissioning Program that commissions as a 2LT upon junior college graduation. She was also required to enlist in the Georgia National Guard as an E-5, and perform monthly and annual drills and training just like other reservists. While serving with the National Guard she was treated like an E-5, but on campus she achieved the rank of LtCol serving as the Battallion Executive Officer. All cadets in the Corps of Cadets were expected to salute and render honors to all cadet officers senior to them, just like active duty. I can see how some cadets might think they are senior to enlisted on temporary active duty, since they are used to receiving salutes every day at school. They just need to be "gently" educated on their first active duty, then it should not be a problem in the future. By the way she is now a 1LT in the Army Reserve, serving as the XO of a quartermaster company getting ready to deploy to Korea after her bachelors graduation in May 2018.

Response by SFC Richard Browne made Apr 27 at 2018 9:29 PM

2018-04-27T21:29:57-04:00

Technically, I think cadets of all services fall in that undefined grey area between a warrant officer and a NCO. Definitely not commissioned, but almost having the equivalent of a warrant. It was even more fun when dealing SMPs in thr Reserves/National Guard because they are simultaneously their Guard rank and an ROTC cadet. Go figure that one. As Plt. Sgt., I basically to learn considered their role as OITs but there to learn leadership from the ground up by being a snuffy first.

Response by AA Allen Saunders made May 2 at 2018 2:29 PM

2018-05-02T14:29:13-04:00

No. They haven't earned their comission yet as they are still in "basic" training. A Marine isn't a Marine until he earns it by completing basics. A Sailor isn't a Sailor until he earns it. An Airman isn't an Airman until earning it. A Soldier isn't a Soldier until he earns it. I would have to say while the Cadet is out with troops, they should be seizing the opportunity on gaining respect of the enlisted man. That's the whole point of it.

Response by CPT Don Pruitt made May 3 at 2018 4:53 PM

2018-05-03T16:53:06-04:00

Cadets, as a rank, do not get saluted, with one exception: when a Cadet serves as a Platoon Leader within a unit during summer training. That is why you do not see enlisted personnel saluting USMA or ROTC cadets during on campus. Nor do you see enlisted personnel saluting cadets who are serving as Drill Instructors.

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made May 4 at 2018 11:35 AM

2018-05-04T11:35:26-04:00

We had a cadet show up at basic and demanded salutes. Insisted he was a third Lt. Drill sergeants let him get away with it

Response by SPC Jerry Doc Daugherty made May 4 at 2018 12:42 PM

2018-05-04T12:42:02-04:00

While I have respect for cadets willing to possibly join the Military! I do not believe they are entitled to a salute from Active Army! They have not made a full commitment yet! When they fully commit they'll get the full respect of their rank! What cadets and really all officer's need to know is we salute the rank not the man or woman!

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made May 4 at 2018 1:51 PM

2018-05-04T13:51:32-04:00

Midshipmen cadets from the school of small boats and barges, (aka "a Snotty") were not well received in Marine country according to the old salts. Very seldom observed and always accompanied by a commissioned officer.

United States Navy midshipman is classified as an officer of the line with their exercise of authority limited by training status. Midshipmen are a special grade of officer that ranks between the senior enlisted grade and the lowest grade of chief warrant officer W-2, U. S. Navy or warrant officer W-1, U.S. Army or U. S. Marine Corps.

The Marine grunt of the Vietnam era without sea duty more than likely would not have known this.
Receiving a left handed straight arm salute to the mouth had a salute been demanded by the midshipmen would not be out of the realm of possibilities so the sea stories go and the scuttlebutt flows. Some of the best Marines pulled brig time.

Students at the United States Naval Academy are appointed as midshipman, United States Navy by the President. Students in the Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps are appointed as midshipman, United States Navy Reserve by the Secretary of the Navy.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made May 4 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-05-04T14:35:27-04:00

Back in the day early, early 80s the had the cadets we got in the summer (we normally got 4) hand them with out on the shop floor turning wrenches. I personally don't recall any of them complaining about it and most seemed to get really involved with what things did and how they worked. But as time when on by the late 80s they stopped doing that and they basically just followed a captain around and they really didn't interact with us. Now it would appear its gotten worse.

Response by CPL Jeff Tappan made May 4 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-05-04T15:27:59-04:00

If you haven't received a commission from Congress, you're not a commissioned officer. Which means no salute is required by protocol and the regs. Unless, things have gone even more downhill than when I got out ( 1987 ) .

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2018 3:46 PM

2018-05-04T15:46:10-04:00

Back when I was a SGT/E5, I had a couple of cadets land in my platoon. Very young and inexperienced, but they never asked to be saluted, and other than good natured jokes and pranks, we developed a good rapport. One of them is now set to become a Lt. Col very soon. Which is why I try not to get on their case too much.

Response by SSG Jeff Littleton made May 4 at 2018 6:37 PM

2018-05-04T18:37:37-04:00

I had a roommate at Ft Stewart GA who was kicked out of OCS during his Sr year of ROTC. He was an all around POS but thought he deserved to be treated above and beyond the enlisteds. Sorry, you don't receive the respect until you "walk across the stage" same as guys I knew who completed NCO leadership schools as well as Ranger school who screwed up before crossing the stage and we're denied credit for the respective school.

Response by PO2 Jeff Klein made May 4 at 2018 11:07 PM

2018-05-04T23:07:16-04:00

I had some middies assigned to me when I was an E-5. It was understood that they were there to learn from me or whomever I assigned any of them to work with that day (or night). Since we were at sea, there was no saluting anyway and I don't recall any instructions either way about it. The rule I put out to my guys was to treat them with professional respect as I didn't want their impression of enlisted as being a bunch of twits. Hopefully, most of them went on to treat their NCO's with some professional respect after they received their commissions.

Response by LTC Brett Weeks made May 5 at 2018 7:20 AM

2018-05-05T07:20:36-04:00

What COL Williams said!

Response by SGT Rob Baker made May 5 at 2018 8:36 AM

2018-05-05T08:36:45-04:00

When I was in during the 80’s we were not required to salute them. If I remember right they were worked like a private. Dug fox holes like everyone else and didn’t walk to the front of the chow line. But we did steere them right so they would shine when they needed to.

Response by SGT Gary DeFelippo made May 5 at 2018 9:32 AM

2018-05-05T09:32:32-04:00

3rd Ltd, were interesting and given the chance, grew into effective officers and
Superior leaders.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2018 9:55 AM

2018-05-05T09:55:00-04:00

They are not commissioned officers. You do not have to salute them.

Response by SGT James Raschke made May 5 at 2018 10:02 AM

2018-05-05T10:02:57-04:00

Cadets are cadets. They have not yet been commission yet. They do not have the respect as a lieutenant. If they forfeit their college @ they end of 2 years, they will have the rank of sergeant E--5. Look underneath the Army rags of cadets being promoted to second Lieutenant after 2 years or first lieutenant after four years will be in the Army regulations look it up I know from past experience cuz after 4 years of college I was promoted to a first lieutenant.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made May 5 at 2018 10:12 AM

2018-05-05T10:12:25-04:00

A cadet who attends drill as a Reservist is addressed as mister, or miss, however a salute is not required when in normal functions of Drill. However, and this is the aspect that requires the customary actions afforded all officers. When a cadet is placed the position of a Platoon Leader, and has to take both the position and responsibilities required as such, He or She are then accord the courtside required. It is part of their training to recognize appropriate and proper behaviors. So in a nutshell, manner of address is different to confer their status as they go through training positions.

Response by COL Dana Hampton made May 5 at 2018 11:31 AM

2018-05-05T11:31:45-04:00

I earned my commission through Army Senior ROTC. There are 2-types of cadets. The first are typically in their 1st two years of a 4-year ROTC program and, unless they are contracted with a 4-year or 3-year ROTC contract, they are not due any real protocol. They are, in reality, college students learning about the Army and whether or not they want to complete the program to earn a commission and contract in their 3rd year.

When a cadet is contracted in ROTC, they are to be afforded the respect and courtesy of a junior NCO (E-5). If they are serving in the National Guard or Reserve through the Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP), they typically wear a single silver disc to identify themselves as a cadet. They are, in effect, an officer in training. But make no mistake...they are not officer's.

The unit commander to which they are assigned "should" outline their status to the Soldiers in the unit. The cadet should function under the direction and supervision of a lieutenant as a mentor.

Hand salutes and other courtesies are not required or necessary to contracted ROTC cadets. Having said that, the unit commander may request that the cadet be afforded those courtesies as a part of their training to develop an understanding of military protocol. In short, whenever a cadet is training with Soldiers, their status should be briefed to the unit to clear up any questions.

With respect to authority, ROTC cadets do not have direct authority, but may have implied authority by virtue of their directions being supervised by a lieutenant or other commissioned officer. Therefore, the ROTC cadet's direction may actually be from the officer in charge.

Any Cadet Should not order salutes or actions without clear guidance and direction from the OIC. Anytime that is in question, the chain of command and NCO support channel should be engaged to gain clarity for all Soldiers involved. If an ROTC Cadet is seen to be abusing their role, that cadet should be counseled and undergo further professional development.

Bottom line, remember young ROTC cadets may have very little experience (if non-prior service) with the military. They are learning just as any Soldier going through basic or AIT. Treat each other with respect and each encounter as a learning opportunity. Then the whole unit wins, people learn, and the mission is accomplished.

Respect---it goes a long way for everyone.

Response by SFC Bob Lilley made May 5 at 2018 12:42 PM

2018-05-05T12:42:41-04:00

Cadets (ROTC) unless enlisted under the SMP rules, are not yet full fledged military members, and thus have no rank warranting a salute. They attend training as a cadet to learn from those who have been trained in basic military subjects. Wise commanders will attach the cadet to a platoon officer with a lanyard (dummy cord) to shadow and observe and ask questions. Also to fetch stuff. Local commanders may require the upper level cadets be rendered proper courtesies commensurate with their rank and station.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made May 5 at 2018 12:48 PM

2018-05-05T12:48:05-04:00

No one is required to salute a cadetcadet. It is appropriate to address a cadet as Cadet, Sir, or Ma'am. I love when a stunning room lawyer refers to "the regulation," but can't tell you which one. Anyway, readying a cadet with disrespect, babe canning, f***k you, etc, not a good idea. Could be used in Article XV as a violation of Article 134. But more importantly, they're not cadets forever so as my Operations Sergeant told me when I was a SGT, " Be careful that the toes you step on today are not connected to ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2018 1:51 PM

2018-05-05T13:51:56-04:00

A cadet is not in my guidance for military ranks. I would not treat them as E-5s. I'd treat them as civilians. Respect and dignity like you should with anyone, but no salutes and I wouldn't call them sir or ma'am.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2018 4:42 PM

2018-05-05T16:42:42-04:00

Cadets ARE NOT Officers,therefore no salute is required.

Response by CSM Steve Ridenour made May 5 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-05-05T17:10:26-04:00

No they have not earned the right

Response by PO2 Charles Kokel made May 5 at 2018 6:29 PM

2018-05-05T18:29:42-04:00

In the Coast Guard cadets were treated like Non-rates E-3 and below. When I was an MK2 on the Tampa had 2 academy cadets assigned to me for 3 days. EO told they were to be treated like a Non-rate so I had them cleaning bilges and doing routine maintenance.

Response by SP5 Franklin Welfl made May 5 at 2018 7:19 PM

2018-05-05T19:19:10-04:00

I helped run a Range as an E-4 , we had Cadets filter through , one didn't think he had to follow my instructions. I was acting in a Safety NCO slot . There were E-6s and E-7s . The Cadets were told they will respect my authority. Needless to say the " John Wayne" cadet I am referring to did a lot of P.T. for not placing his weapon on safe after I found it and He refused to follow my instructions. I don't like throwing people under the bus but a Rifle range , crew served etc is serious. I know I was low ranking but I had a responsibility and I did full fill it and I do the same thing years after the fact. If an individual is going to travel the path to be an Officer they need to be professional as an NCO in the latter part of my time in Service I was required to and did conduct myself as a Professional . I still live by those standards even though I am no longer in Uniform.

Response by SFC Rob Williams made May 5 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-05-05T21:59:59-04:00

I treated cadets as private E-0 nothing enlisted , nothing officer I treated them like the cadets they were

Response by CSM David Draughn made May 5 at 2018 11:10 PM

2018-05-05T23:10:03-04:00

Cadets “rank” falls between warrant and commissioned officers. They should return the salute. If the cadets do not, then tactfully point out your observation of such imprpopriety and reinforce that a salute should be returned to by this “third lieutenant.” Many of these kids do not know. I taught SrROTC for a little over two years.

Response by 1st Lt James Lipski made May 5 at 2018 11:39 PM

2018-05-05T23:39:53-04:00

As a former cadet myself, I say, "No". In fact i remember the Commandant of Cadets telling us that until we were officially in the Air Force the NCOs in our detachment outranked us.

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made May 6 at 2018 2:20 PM

2018-05-06T14:20:01-04:00

When I was Platoon Sgt, I always took them under my wing. I gave them a hard time, all in fun, but always saluted and respected them. If they had issues, I listened to them and helped any way I could. I learned years ago, be careful who's toes you step on today, they may become your boss tomorrow. It actually happened to me. The cadet I speak of was a Sgt in my plt. Went to school, received his commission, and shortly after, became my plt leader. I was glad I treated him fairly. Still gave him him a hard time as a plt leader in a fun way, never disrespect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 5:05 PM

2018-05-06T17:05:32-04:00

You don't salute cadets or call them sir/ma'am. The proper way to address them is just "cadet <last name>"

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 5:45 PM

2018-05-06T17:45:17-04:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 5:50 PM

2018-05-06T17:50:29-04:00

when i was a plt sgt i had 2 cadets. i made it a point to choose the lowest/youngest Private to filter info back and forth for the first few days just to make sure they know their place lol....but they got some great hands on training if anyones curious.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 6 at 2018 6:11 PM

2018-05-06T18:11:35-04:00

True... but “when in doubt, salute!” Nothing to be enbarrassed over.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 6:18 PM

2018-05-06T18:18:56-04:00

I am currently a cadet drilling with the National Guard. We are NOT supposed to be saluted, we do not technically even hold a rank, just a pay grade. Any cadet who claims otherwise is wrong.

Response by PV2 Terry Carney made May 6 at 2018 9:19 PM

2018-05-06T21:19:39-04:00

I was stationed at Ft. Greeley, AK as part of USAG. We had Northern Warfare Training Course up there and during the summer we had cadets (what we called cadiots in private). One night we had a fire and I stayed on duty at my post in the station alarm room 36 hours straight to make sure all pertinent paperwork was properly done for the fire chief to sign.

My truck SSG took me to lunch at the dfac as a thank you when this cadet came running past us towards his barracks from the dfac. Next thing I heard was "Private get over here! ". My SSG and I double timed it towards the cadet. He started to berate me then he noticed my irritated SSG. He quickly locked his heels into parade rest while the SSG reminded him that he, the cadet, was a student and that we were not required to salute.

The SSG told him about my 36 hour tod and that I was hungry and to apologize. The cadet did and we both learned something.

Response by SPC Martin Lucas made May 6 at 2018 9:46 PM

2018-05-06T21:46:02-04:00

We had a west pointer for a bit and we went to the range for a few days and we set up our cots next to each other so we chatted a bit, he was cool and as far as i gathered you just treated them with respect with sir but we didnt salute and he didnt ask for it

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 10:45 PM

2018-05-06T22:45:17-04:00

depends how sharp they are i geuss. and there personality .

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 11:29 PM

2018-05-06T23:29:45-04:00

My understanding is only when they are acting as "3rd Lieutenants" in the SMP program (where they are in a Reserve or Guard unit) or when in CTLT (summer program where they act as a "3rd Lt. in an active Army unit.

NCOs train them at the academies, universites and cadets. A cadet is out of line when he/she tries to pull "rank" but the enlisted or NCO when in a casual encounter on the first meeting wouldnt be wrong to salute the cadet and show the courtesy to a future officer. . (contracted ROTC or West Point)

A junior officer would also be out of line to "pull rank" to an experienced NCO; the LT who doesnt show respect ot his/her NCOs will sink fast!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 12:50 AM

2018-05-07T00:50:54-04:00

The answer is no. I have worked ROTC support for many years and the answer that we were given is they have not received a commission as of yet so they do not get saluted. Now saying they will salute commissioned officers specially ROTC command that is a requirement for them.

Response by LCDR Ray Trygstad made May 7 at 2018 1:16 AM

2018-05-07T01:16:56-04:00

The interesting thing is, Midshipmen ARE officers, as this naval rank predates the service academies. Navy sources state very clearly that Midshipmen rank between non-commissioned and commissioned warrant officers. They hold the rank of Midshipman, USN (Naval Academy) or Midshipman, USNR (NROTC), and wear Navy officer uniforms. Admiral David Glasgow Farragut had his first command as a Midshipman at the age of 12 when he was appointed as master of a prize vessel taken by the USS Essex. In the days of sail, Midshipmen routinely served as division officers aboard their ships, a duty now performed by Ensigns and JGs. As officers, Midshipmen DO rate a salute.

Response by SGT Rick Myers made May 7 at 2018 9:05 AM

2018-05-07T09:05:51-04:00

Always treated them with respect but smoked them when they needed it. Gotta remember that one day he may be your OIC.

Response by SSG Ken Schiffner made May 7 at 2018 10:31 AM

2018-05-07T10:31:38-04:00

I was enlisted active duty in the infantry, and ETS'd as an NCO. While in college I got into ROTC and was eventually assigned to a reserve unit. Randomly someone would salute me and I would tell him he was not required to salute me, and told him I appreciated the sign of respect but to please not do it in the future. At that time I was sort if in the Army. I was an E-5 in the IRR (I guess). But my little brass disk held no rank.

Response by PO1 Glen Cook made May 7 at 2018 11:20 AM

2018-05-07T11:20:27-04:00

Depends on the year first and sevond year no. But military etiquette says every salute rates a returned salute.

Response by SPC Ron Milburn made May 7 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-05-07T11:25:51-04:00

No...they are not Officers yet. When they have their bars THEN they rate a salute

Response by Bklyn Que made May 7 at 2018 11:38 AM

2018-05-07T11:38:22-04:00

I was a SSG in the army and then attended ROTC as a Cadet. When I was enlisted I used to despise Cadets because of my leadership and because most of them were, well, Dip Shits. However, as a prior service ROTC Cadet I sort of new the trek of the lower enlisted as well as that of the NCO and therefore respected. But more importantly I earned their confidence and with that their respect. And wouldn't you know they choose to salute me because the trusted me.

You have to earn respect. You dont just get it... On the flip side if You are a limp dicked NCO get your shit straight and stop getting your rocks off by screwing with Cadets for the fun of it.

Response by SSgt Sandra Stubblefield made May 7 at 2018 12:14 PM

2018-05-07T12:14:06-04:00

Never, they need to complete all the required training and have to finish school to get commission. We had cadets who once entered our chow hall and insisted on being served first because they have hirer rank- but no true. Active duty always went first then the cadets. Never a salute was ever granted to these individuals. Now come to me and I will salute the hell out of you, if you graduated.

Response by PO2 Killashandra Leigh made May 7 at 2018 12:59 PM

2018-05-07T12:59:04-04:00

I suffered through several summers of babysitting Midshipmen while I was on the boat, and there were always that select few who demanded that the enlisted salute them. Much of the time they were rapidly put in their place because they would inevitably cross paths with a Chief who would light them up like a Christmas tree.

Response by PFC O'neal Tillery made May 7 at 2018 2:17 PM

2018-05-07T14:17:31-04:00

The only experience I have had with one actually involving active service was when I was in BCT, toward the middle of our cycle a cadet came in for CTLT and our CO told us to treat him with the same respect as any other officer, from a distance we thought he was a SPC and even our Drills saluted him and had us call the company to attention when he entered the area if the commander wasn't there. He was a pretty laid back guy and enjoyed talking with all of us. Now the other occurence was when I was in Walmart in uniform (just got out of drill and needed groceries) as I was walking out a Army ROTC cadet from a local college was walking in, screamed at me for not saluting him, and was promptly told to ef off and play GI Joe somewhere else ya stupid dot. But overall, they don't demand respect but treat them as you would any other officer depending on the situation.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 7 at 2018 2:23 PM

2018-05-07T14:23:44-04:00

I will treat cadets accordingly as they deserve and earn. I am in the regular army so I don't have to deal with drilling cadets; just the occasional cadets during the Summer time.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 2:41 PM

2018-05-07T14:41:22-04:00

They are not officer yet.

Response by Capt Steven Sheffield made May 7 at 2018 2:52 PM

2018-05-07T14:52:10-04:00

When I was a Junior in ROTC they gave me one of the old Green military IDs. It said CADET/E-3 on it. They told me if I didn’t commission I would go in as an E-3. So when I went tobases I did what EVERYONE told me and tried to be seen but not heard (in spite of the fact I am a talkative guy). It worked pretty well. And I found out Sergeants knew a metric ton of wise shit.

This lead to me doing the same thing as an LT. I listened carefully to my shop NCOIC. He never lead me astray.

As a consequence of this, I had a pretty smooth career. Was great.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 3:24 PM

2018-05-07T15:24:30-04:00

They're Cadidiots until they prove otherwise, lol

600-20 covers the necessity of saluting (and which ranks rate that salute). The bigger the Cadets head, the more fun it is watching it burst.

In all seripusness, my experience with Cadets is actually pretty good. They were young, they were human. But they had pretty good attitudes. One of them, I had to continually remind him that he wasn't an E4 anymore...because he wanted to hang out with the junior enlisted ranks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 3:47 PM

2018-05-07T15:47:20-04:00

I used to think it funny that a 1LT’s wife thought she deserved a salute at the front gate!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-05-07T15:59:00-04:00

U don’t salute cadets

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made May 7 at 2018 4:14 PM

2018-05-07T16:14:16-04:00

When one as a cadet I never received a salute.
Cadets have NOT YET EARNED that show of respect.

Response by SGT Bill Everidge made May 7 at 2018 4:16 PM

2018-05-07T16:16:24-04:00

My old unit at Fort Lewis WA put on an EIB type training course for some cadets out of the University of Washington back in 2000. I was working on the hand grenade lane when a cadet approached me to ask a question, then informed me I was to "lock it up" at attention while speaking with them. My Platoon Sgt overheard this and nearly had a coronary. He came to my rescue and informed this cadet that he wasn't commissioned yet, and as such wasn't even yet a soldier in this man's Army, and he absolutely had no authority or privilege to make such a ridiculous demand. He may or may not have went to verbally castrate this individual lol At any rate, I'm not sure what the regs say, but in practice use standard professional courtesy. After all, eventually they'll become officers one day and the military is a very small community.

Response by SFC Howard Cleland made May 7 at 2018 4:22 PM

2018-05-07T16:22:06-04:00

Just call them cliwn puncher 6. When i taught ROTC i told all my cadets to use that call sign. Most didnt understand it until everyone had a huge laugh when they went to their summer trip to a unit better known as CTLT

Response by SSG David Thompson made May 7 at 2018 4:48 PM

2018-05-07T16:48:03-04:00

We had one in my guard unit in the early 90’s. We called him the dime lieutenant. He screwed up somehow and suddenly transformed into a spec. E4.

Response by CPL Chris Palmberg made May 7 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-05-07T17:10:45-04:00

For purposes of pay, cadets are assimilated E-5s. Most SMPs (Simultaneous Membership Program) are enlisted personnel who have completed basic & AIT, and are receiving a ROTC Scholarship, generally while under contract. Essentially, they are enlisted with <4 years TIS until the day they receive their commission.

My guidance has always been to treat them with the respect you would show a junior NCO. And when they aren't looking, feel free to refer to those who will validate those classic 2nd Lieutenant stereotypes as "Cadidiots."

Response by SFC Jamie Newman Sr. made May 7 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-05-07T17:33:06-04:00

While stationed at Ft. Polk, Louisiana we were required to salute soldiers still in training and not yet comissioned as officers. Didn't go over to well.

Response by COL Johnny Powers made May 7 at 2018 6:42 PM

2018-05-07T18:42:14-04:00

The true professional NCO has zero issue with this regulation. Why? Because they understand their critical role in mentoring this soon-to-be commissioned officer and instilling in this leader the value and respect they should expect from thier NCOs.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2018 7:07 PM

2018-05-07T19:07:21-04:00

Yea....I've never saluted the cadets and I never will.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made May 7 at 2018 7:13 PM

2018-05-07T19:13:06-04:00

In airborne school the cadets were told straight up they are no better than a buck private that they have not earned anything till they graduate. Until the time they graduate they have no rank.

Response by SSG Wade Lindwedel made May 7 at 2018 7:23 PM

2018-05-07T19:23:22-04:00

All things considered, that cadet shouldn’t be correcting enlisted in the first place, commission or no. Officers do officer shit, NCOs do NCO shit. My PLs knew if they had an issue with my soldiers, Come talk to ME and then *I* would handle my soldiers.

Response by PO1 Christopher Kitchens made May 7 at 2018 8:53 PM

2018-05-07T20:53:26-04:00

From a Navy point of view... On my last ship when Midshipmen were on board, we were told to salute them and adress them as sir/mam. Personally, I disagreed with this but followed my orders.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made May 7 at 2018 9:41 PM

2018-05-07T21:41:43-04:00

It’s customs and courtesy thing. Show them the respect they will earn should they complete training, but insure the respect is returned, they are after all in training still. This is where an NCO really earns their stripes so to speak.

Response by PFC Chuck Witt made May 7 at 2018 10:00 PM

2018-05-07T22:00:25-04:00

When I was in, the cadets had the equivalent rank of a specialist, an E4, but could hold the same squad position as an E5. We had one in our unit who did hold a squad leader position. He knew he wasn’t an officer yet and didn’t expect to be saluted.

Response by SGT Michael Boston made May 7 at 2018 10:18 PM

2018-05-07T22:18:24-04:00

I'm sorry untill they have those bars pinned on their shoulders they are not officers. If that individual maintains this attitude she want last .

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made May 7 at 2018 10:21 PM

2018-05-07T22:21:38-04:00

No they have not earned their commission yet

Response by SPC Earl Shaffer made May 8 at 2018 12:35 AM

2018-05-08T00:35:18-04:00

One of the stupidest Lt's I had was a fresh west point grad. Thought he knew everything. E-4's with 2 years experience knew a lot more field wise than he did

Response by CPT Thomas Boone made May 8 at 2018 1:50 AM

2018-05-08T01:50:25-04:00

When I was a cadet, I knew I was paid as an E-5, and I was not an officer.
But, if someone rendered a salute to me I returned that courtesy out of respect for the respect being given to me.
I knew I was only entitled to a salute in an ROTC setting from Jr ROTC cadets. Not from actual enlisted soldiers.

Response by SGT Paul Titley made May 8 at 2018 5:15 AM

2018-05-08T05:15:19-04:00

I was always told by my higher leadership that I was to give a cadet the same customs and courtesies I would any other commissioned officer. Most times if the cadet wasn't assisting officers in duties they were with us NCO's getting hands on troop training, and according to Army regs they are above NCO's in the succession of leadership

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 7:11 AM

2018-05-08T07:11:28-04:00

Regardless of status, we have to teach respect at all levels.

Response by SFC Tony Doxey made May 8 at 2018 7:26 AM

2018-05-08T07:26:36-04:00

They are not officers and should not be saluted

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 8:34 AM

2018-05-08T08:34:38-04:00

I got saluted when I was a Cadet, but I graduated ROTC when I was 34 with almost 12 years in already, and I had the huge dot so people probably thought I was a LTC from a distance. Old salt ‘n pepper haired 2LT now though.

But there’s a reason at your commissioning ceremony where you have a 1st salute. Mine was from an awesome SNCO at my unit where I did my SMP. I learned a lot from the guy. He has the most awesome drill sergeant voice ever. And we’re still friends today. That first salute meant a lot to me because it was the first real one.

I’m at BOLC right now and I walked by a group of privates going through AIT at the chow hall. They weren’t paying attention and didn’t salute. I stopped and quietly told them, “hey guys, pay attention, there’s a drill sergeant over there.” But that drill saw them and was already speed walking over there. They got smoooooked. I didn’t really care about them missing the salute, I just didn’t want them to get in trouble. lol

Response by PO1 TheBee Ef A made May 8 at 2018 10:19 AM

2018-05-08T10:19:27-04:00

Being Aircrew in the Navy, we had the privilege of our barracks during Aircrew school being right across the street from OCS. So we tend to pick up on a lot of what they are up to. I don't know any regulation to relate to, but they have a tradition of getting silver dollars, I believe 10 of them, and once they are commissioned, they give these dollars out to the first people that salute them. So it seems based on this tradition, they don't get saluted before their commissioning.

Response by SPC Jerry Fields made May 8 at 2018 10:30 AM

2018-05-08T10:30:37-04:00

Wake solved the problem with pinning e-5 rank on the cadets.

Response by LTC Loyd G. made May 8 at 2018 10:31 AM

2018-05-08T10:31:59-04:00

While enlisted may not be “required” by regulation and this particular cadet could have used a different method of persuasion, what exactly does it cost you to salute a “officer in training”? What attitude towards enlisted personnel are you instilling in that future officer? Respect? Contempt?

Response by PO3 Hayes Hornish made May 8 at 2018 10:56 AM

2018-05-08T10:56:30-04:00

They are not officers, colors or standards not cased.

Response by SFC(P) Richard Warren made May 8 at 2018 12:21 PM

2018-05-08T12:21:36-04:00

That is correct. That CAN be saluted, but do not have to be. They should return the salute, but are not required. As a Private, he outranks that Cadet and should have informed him that not returning a salute is bad form, especially since the initial salute was a gesture of respect. Not returning it suggests that the Cadet deems the Private as not worthy of his time.

If I had seem that then the Cadet would find himself tasked with some very shitty details very soon...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 1:59 PM

2018-05-08T13:59:12-04:00

There’s a reason it’s called the, “first salute” at commissioning.

Response by SSG Dean Baker made May 8 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-05-08T14:07:14-04:00

You salute a commissioned officer, not one who is trying to be one

Response by SFC James Beason made May 8 at 2018 2:09 PM

2018-05-08T14:09:07-04:00

Had some experience with 3 rd lieutenants at Graf we just them Cadets.

Response by CPL Don Brennan made May 8 at 2018 2:29 PM

2018-05-08T14:29:11-04:00

I learned something new today thank you

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 3:40 PM

2018-05-08T15:40:34-04:00

At their college they are not saluted by their cadre, so i also wouldn't do it in the force.

With that being said don't be an assclown; treat them with respect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 4:16 PM

2018-05-08T16:16:40-04:00

Aren’t cadets commissioned as reservist as cadets, they take an oath and sign as contract as a reservist officer

Response by Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-05-08T17:59:05-04:00

Any cadet who is demanding to be treated as a proper officer has to be reminded of their actual posistion. As a Cadet, until your rank is Lieutenant or higher you don't warrant a salute.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 7:00 PM

2018-05-08T19:00:53-04:00

There is always going to be a debate on this. The cadet was wrong for not rendering the salute back. When it comes to whether or not to salute....be an NCO that makes a good impression. Does it bug me to do it....of course. What you have to realize is if this is the first true experience with working NCO, you should give them the respect. If you don't, they will to be the ones who go around you all the time and take your power away. Plus you have your soldiers watching this. Be the example a cadet expects when he/she becomes commisioned.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 7:10 PM

2018-05-08T19:10:27-04:00

Our unit places them as PLT LDRs and treats them as such. They are expected to preform as they will when they complete their program. I even have a few that have commissioned but not yet gone to BOLC but have made 1LT but have no military training other then IET. At times I wonder how the process works since almost every officer accomplished it a different way and they seldom know all the various ways it can be done but I digress, If the commander places them in charge then they are in charge as long as the ground rules are spelled out to them and they understand what their boundaries are. Why would you want your Officers in training being treated as less than what they are to become? If treated right and trained appropreiately then they will probably become an outstanding leader and one you would like to be you PL. If they are not up to the task it is better to identify that now than when the bullets are coming from down range and they freeze up or go blank at a time when lives matter.

Response by Sgt Lopaka Ornellas made May 8 at 2018 7:44 PM

2018-05-08T19:44:24-04:00

I think they get saluted because most enlisted men see something shiny, do they instinctively salute.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 8:11 PM

2018-05-08T20:11:20-04:00

Who cares?

Response by CPT Charles Creed made May 8 at 2018 8:21 PM

2018-05-08T20:21:51-04:00

It's great and interesting seeing so many sidesto the same coin about one simple question. Having been a product of ROTC and recently been an instructor/ cadre as well, I don't think things have changed in the past 20 years. Any cadet demanding to be saluted is wrong but unit SOP is important. When I was a cadet and did CTLT at Bragg I fondly remember a SPC walking past me, turning around, knife handing and saying "am I supposed to salute you?" And I explained that while not required the command team requested it in an effort to train me and the other cadets up to be the future professional officers and leaders we would be in a year, but I personally didn't care that much either way. He liked that answer and saluted.
Most people fall under the old "when in doubt, whip it out" with cadets because WTF are they wearing on their head gear and it's polite and professional to return a salute.
Cadets brought up right understand that they don't outrank anyone regardless of what 600-20 says about the food chain. NCOs will yell, they will get upset, the cadets of character will learn, grow, and develop as leaders. And certainly never demand a salute.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2018 8:36 PM

2018-05-08T20:36:01-04:00

Hell naw I won't salute a damn Cadet

Response by SN Jay Perry made May 8 at 2018 9:02 PM

2018-05-08T21:02:34-04:00

No!!! The lowest form of plant life ever discovered is a cadet!! They know everything, can barely tie their shoes and are too dumb to know how little they truly know. JO's are bad cassettes can actually be dangerous, you have to watch them, try to TEACH them, while doing YOUR job trying to stay safe

Response by SSG Paul Mulvany made May 8 at 2018 9:04 PM

2018-05-08T21:04:56-04:00

Been on both sides of this. No salutes but as officers in training cadets should be referred to as Mister or Miss. Think Warrant Officers.

Response by SFC Leon Burckhalter made May 8 at 2018 9:14 PM

2018-05-08T21:14:49-04:00

He$$ no. Like I always call them dot in the guard they carry E5 pay and that's a bunch of crap. SFC

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made May 8 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-05-08T21:25:41-04:00

I know we sure didn’t from 1980-2002 and by the way what am I supposed to salute that silver dime they wear on their collar

Response by CPL Brian Liles made May 8 at 2018 10:07 PM

2018-05-08T22:07:22-04:00

My first tour in Korea I was chastised by a cadet for not saluting him . He actually took me to my 1sg that told him a dot was not a REAL rank. The unit he was attached with made Jo's salute him so he thought that meant everywhere.

Response by MAJ John Moran made May 9 at 2018 12:25 AM

2018-05-09T00:25:17-04:00

As to the question of whether Cadets “outrank” NCO’s it’s largely semantic.

Cadet/Officer Candidate are administrative ranks. Cadets and Candidets are entitled to officer courtesies (salute, greeting of the day, being addressed as sir/ma’am) etc.

HOWEVER cadets/candidates have no operational authority. They can only give orders and direction in an training or administrative context.

Most enlisted personnel will only have contact with cadets in a training environment, either as a fellow student in a TRADOC course (ex. Jump school) or during a CTLT/SMP (cadets present in an TPU Active or Reserve unit, for the purposes of gaining experience leading soldiers).

Under these circumstances, a cadet should be operating under the close supervision of an officer or senior NCO. In which case the order is only binding by the authority extended from the supervising officer or NCO.

Moral of the story: treat Cadets with respect. If a cadet is acting like a complete idiot, try to coach respectfully, if that fails, inform your PL, XO, 1SG or CO that the cadet is embarrassing themselves and the officer corps.

Response by SSG Cecil Vaughn made May 9 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-05-09T00:28:47-04:00

I hated when West Point Cadets came to our unit. They thought they deserved respect as an officer and most demanded it. I just looked at them kinda cross-eyed and kept moving.

Response by SGT Scotty Faircloth made May 9 at 2018 8:54 AM

2018-05-09T08:54:31-04:00

I never did, I earned my stripes, these guys are still in school.

Response by SP5 Doug Krahn made May 9 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-05-09T10:10:31-04:00

Our company Commander a captain refer to them as third lieutenants not quite officers yet. they were not in the Army yet, therefore did not require a solute.

Response by GySgt Cecil Nelson made May 9 at 2018 2:14 PM

2018-05-09T14:14:41-04:00

No, you have to earn it first

Response by MSG Clay Akerley made May 9 at 2018 2:56 PM

2018-05-09T14:56:15-04:00

The Cadet is lower than a recruit ...

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made May 9 at 2018 4:01 PM

2018-05-09T16:01:46-04:00

I don't believe there is any requirement/obligation to salute a cadet. They are not commissioned yet. Look at it this way: If they don't complete the academy or other officer prep., they would be considered enlisted personnel.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 5:03 PM

2018-05-09T17:03:54-04:00

600-20 clearly defines this. As a previous cadet and teacher of them it is a huge issue for a cadet to demand a salute. Some get them some don't. I as a Soldier would have reported the cadet who demanded Salutes to his commander. The commander should fix this issue. As a cadet instructor I would have fixed it.

Response by SSG Carl Berglund made May 9 at 2018 5:21 PM

2018-05-09T17:21:52-04:00

After they’ve earned the butter bars, I will throw a salute At them !!!

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made May 9 at 2018 6:03 PM

2018-05-09T18:03:02-04:00

We had many Midshipmen cruise with us, and they were generally treated as enlisted. They were missing a crucial qualification in Submarines, which in the silent service is more important than rank in many ways.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Stone made May 9 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-05-09T19:27:44-04:00

Enlisted people are not required to salute cadets. The decision has been made long ago. They don’t have a commission therefore rendering a salute is not A requirement. Same thing goes for warrant officers. Occasionally you’ll have a stupid officers wife that thinks the troops are supposed to salute her or come to attention when she enters the room. Usually there’s an NCO that actually knows the regulations and explained it to her. I’ve seen this happen before it’s quite humorous.

Response by MAJ Dean Thompson made May 9 at 2018 7:34 PM

2018-05-09T19:34:19-04:00

Cadets, and I was one, are one level above whale feces. When the make butter bar, they make it to PFC. If they hang around, listen to senior NCOs and Senior Officers, they MAY one day actually become an Officer and a Gentleman.

Response by SSG Cliff Karolak made May 9 at 2018 7:38 PM

2018-05-09T19:38:30-04:00

No salute required.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 7:57 PM

2018-05-09T19:57:48-04:00

Usually company commander will establish policy for dealing with cadets when they are known to be in your AO

Response by PO1 Charles Babcock made May 9 at 2018 8:08 PM

2018-05-09T20:08:31-04:00

back in the '80's when I was in, being in submarines we had very little to do with things like midshipmen cruises, but what little time we had with them, they were commonly treated according to their attitudes. A Real Asshat, just might end up on a watchstanders log as the guest of honor at a "swing the cocoon" log entry every half hour. Duct tape works wonders on attitudes. If they were polite and reasonably respectful to those around them, they were commonly treated with a lot more tolerance and respect.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 9:19 PM

2018-05-09T21:19:30-04:00

Depends on the status and situation. A USMA cadet is part of the Regular Army, and therefore accorded that status at all times. An ROTC cadet is technically enlisted in the Reserve until commissioning or some other end to their ROTC status occurs, and may sometimes also hold a specific enlisted rank in the Reserve or Guard if they drill regularly. In situations where an ROTC cadet is specifically acting as a lieutenant in a training situation, they and other Soldiers should act the same as if they were actually a lieutenant. In other situations, there will be different expectations.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2018 11:24 PM

2018-05-09T23:24:37-04:00

Cadets are just that Cadets, they are neither Officers or NCOs (they are paid as an E5). I had the same situation when I was a 1SG, I advised the Private and Cadet no saluting!! They may be great or good people but they are “Not” an Officer and aren’t saluted. Same is true in speaking to them, they are addressed as “Cadet.”

Response by SFC Kevin Hathaway made May 10 at 2018 5:16 AM

2018-05-10T05:16:24-04:00

They are not Commissioned they are not due a Salute. They will be a Candidate for a long time before they earn that respect!

Response by SGT Chris McNabb made May 10 at 2018 5:21 AM

2018-05-10T05:21:16-04:00

While serving at Walter Reed. I had many run ins with them. They hold E5 pay wise..but after talking to my LTC and CG. Both told myself and co workers...they have no rank...but for us to give respect..Also in the Air Evac setting nobody out ranks the medical staff handling their transportation...might not be reg. But has merits...but respect is always given.

Response by SP6 David Ritchie made May 10 at 2018 11:21 AM

2018-05-10T11:21:43-04:00

Stop referring to me as SP6. My rank was Staff Sergeant.

Response by SP6 David Ritchie made May 10 at 2018 11:23 AM

2018-05-10T11:23:42-04:00

And in my day the most dangerous thing in the army was a 2nd Lieutenant with a map.

Response by PVT Rich Burns made May 10 at 2018 11:31 AM

2018-05-10T11:31:13-04:00

Thankfully I never had to Entertain such a situation. Albeit I would have treated them as any other Private in the Army at that time, unless my Command Ordered otherwise.

Response by 1SG Terry Lene made May 10 at 2018 12:06 PM

2018-05-10T12:06:46-04:00

No,No! You do not salute cadets until they graduate and are commissioned. As a matter of fact when I was in the NCO Academy at Fort Benning GA, they were required to get off the side walk when NCOs were approaching and said make way for the NCOs. Now we did Salute them upon their Graduation WHEN THEY WERE COMMISIONED. I will be teaching ROTC students next month and you can bet I will not be saluting cadets.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2018 12:13 PM

2018-05-10T12:13:27-04:00

While they are "in" the military their Rank of Cadet places them junior to an E-1. So if anyone is to initiate the salute the Cadet should be saluting the enlisted service members.

Response by CPL Darrell Green made May 10 at 2018 3:00 PM

2018-05-10T15:00:02-04:00

Never dealt with any on Active Duty. But had 3 during my time in the NG. And I will say they were all great. Never demanded anything. And we treated them all with Respect. The fact that 2 of them were prior service enlisted and the 3rd was the son of a SFC. I’d like think we helped them become better officers.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made May 10 at 2018 3:14 PM

2018-05-10T15:14:07-04:00

While I served in the 28th Inf. Div., Pathfinders ( has since been disastablished ) we were tasked to indoctrinate CADETS, in helicopter operations. Our instructions that the cadets were to be addressed as CADET ( name ) Saluting was not required, as they were still cadets, and would not become officers until after graduation.

Response by CPT William Jones made May 10 at 2018 3:50 PM

2018-05-10T15:50:12-04:00

The Navy addresses al Junior officers as Mister and it is not unheard of for a senior Officer as Mister to a lower ranked officer as Mister in a dressing down for something,ie n O6 to an O5. Even enlisted sailors address the lower 3 officer grades as Mister with no hurt feelings. could probably add cadets/candidates to that form of address. Or simply use candidate, cadet etc as form for rank,ie cadet Jones.

Response by SSgt Mike Finch made May 10 at 2018 4:33 PM

2018-05-10T16:33:28-04:00

Can you imagine what kind of officer this cadet is going to make?

A salute is not required but, when saluted, they should return the honor.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2018 10:48 PM

2018-05-10T22:48:07-04:00

Also keep in mind that this also plays in with commanders discretion on saluting cadets.

Response by SGT Michael Hartman made May 11 at 2018 2:41 AM

2018-05-11T02:41:10-04:00

I have nothing but respect for those who choose to become officers but until they get their bars on no saluting

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 2:57 AM

2018-05-11T02:57:34-04:00

I say eff it salute them. They are training to be officers so salute them and let them get their salute arms strong for the constant salutes they are going to receive as officers. It won't hurt any one rendering a salute to them.

Response by SGT Brian Littrel made May 11 at 2018 3:16 AM

2018-05-11T03:16:47-04:00

At Ft, Know we hosted a CALFEX each year. Cadets from all over came to see the Combined Arms Live Fire Exercise. They got to see how great and fun it would be to an officer in combat arms. We were told that they are not officers and do not need to be saluted. However, it would be good practice for them. It was up to us. I felt that as an NCO, we are the trainers of the force. As long as the cadet was courteous and it didn't go to their head, I would render a salute. I would also correct them. Some were uncomfortable returning a salute. Some were half-hearted in returning a salute. I only dealt with one arrogant cadet. I thought it was the right thing to do. That way when they get to their first assignment they would not feel so uncomfortable with salutes. It just is not a requirement. It's an earned privilege and historic tradition that transcends time and nation. It's an honor to salute and return salutes.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 11:27 AM

2018-05-11T11:27:02-04:00

Look at AR 600-20. They are an official rank and they do outrank NCOs. Your personal opinions on the matter of what they have earned or have not earned matter very little here...

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made May 11 at 2018 1:39 PM

2018-05-11T13:39:54-04:00

I was told by a full bird that cadets may outrank me as an NCO but they are not officers. Do not salute them and do not let them in charge of any thing. They are to be supervised on every task.

Response by Cpl Ian Perry made May 11 at 2018 1:54 PM

2018-05-11T13:54:46-04:00

I was stationed in camp lejune North Carolina, and a high school kid that tried to dress me down because I didn’t salute him because he was a cadet officer in a JROTC ( notice I said try to dress me down ) I laughed in his face and ask who the F did he think he was and walked away .

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 5:06 PM

2018-05-11T17:06:30-04:00

Cadets should act like and generally be treated like junior officers as they are training to become. When I was a Navy enlisted man over 30 years ago, I was told to salute midshipmen and address them as "sir" or "ma'am". This was kind of rough, as they were my peers in both age and education. It certainly was tempting to call them something else at times :) .............great thanks to the NCOs and enlisted men with the sportsmanship to train, mentor, and even initiate salutes to our cadets, as I too was one after the Navy. The salute is not really a right or privilege to an officer, but a privilege that is exchanged between Soldiers, both officer and enlisted.

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made May 11 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-05-11T22:37:01-04:00

I agree. A cadet is just that. Once they complete their training and education, and are commissioned, then things change. They need to learn a little humility as well.

Response by SGT Lillian Ramirez made May 11 at 2018 11:12 PM

2018-05-11T23:12:25-04:00

NCO have to earned their rank before they are address by the rank. So, why the fuss? ROTC, and CADETS should earned their rank. Is that simple.

Response by Capt Andrew Hairston made May 12 at 2018 9:39 AM

2018-05-12T09:39:36-04:00

Cadets/officer candidates do not receive the same privileges as commissioned officers. Someone mentioned it already, but they have not received their commission as yet and still have the opportunity to call it quits.
In the Marine Corps I haven't seen much of that "entitlement" that I'm seeing others on this post deal with, but while a candidate and USMC OCS it's not just staff NCOs digging into you. There's the occasional Cpl yelling at you reminding you that you haven't made it yet. Maybe that plays a role in why we don't see it as much, but I've been to OCS graduations as a 2ndLt where candidates would freeze upon sight of me and salute me even though in just an hour they'd be my peer.

Response by Sgt John Nichols made May 12 at 2018 9:44 AM

2018-05-12T09:44:57-04:00

Is it an OCS cadet. If. So they are still enlisted until earning their bars.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2018 10:52 AM

2018-05-12T10:52:34-04:00

I agree with this. Hopefully though you correct them with proper respect and professionalism. Have this opportunity to develop a future leader in the Army.

I am currently G2G ADO and I am E-6 going through the program. The biggest thing I have learned is that they don’t follow doctrine and they don’t study Army Regs like an NCO would to enforce standards. Just take the time to develop and educate them because your developing the next generation of leaders.

Response by SFC Scott Teague made May 12 at 2018 11:27 AM

2018-05-12T11:27:20-04:00

They should be treated as if a second LT. If that cadet didn't salute he was probably startled or something. Should have been aware of his surroundings and what was required. You aren't saluting the person, you are respecting the rank.

Response by CW3 Robert Haffly made May 12 at 2018 1:26 PM

2018-05-12T13:26:49-04:00

No. Just as Warrant Officer Candidates should not be treated as warrant officers, until they actually are.

Response by SSG Richard Linck made May 12 at 2018 5:02 PM

2018-05-12T17:02:32-04:00

Had Cadets in Berlin in the early 70's. Was told salute was not required but optional.

Response by Col Jonathan Brazee made May 12 at 2018 5:49 PM

2018-05-12T17:49:34-04:00

I am not sure of the regulations for the Army and Air Force, and I think I remember they are different, but midshipman in an officer and does rate a salute. He or she is just not a commissioned officer. If all the higher ranking officers are killed, then a midshipman is required to take command of a ship. There is the famous case of William Sitgreaves Cox who took the wounded captain of the USS Chesapeake below decks and tended to him when he was the senior surving officer on onboard. He was later court martialed for dereliction of duty as a commanding officer.

As far as rank, they rank above an E9 but below a WO1.

Now, having said that, during their youngster cruise (after freshman or plebe year) they are treated as E1s. On the USS Somers in 1976, we had a RTOC midshipman third class who insisted on being saluted and called sir, even when cleaning the heads. I am not sure the statue of limitations has expired on that, so I won't post here what happened to him.

As a midshipman, I've served as the OOD on both subs and surface ships while underway, and I was told in no uncertain terms that I was in charge and had full responsibility. Luckily, on the sub, I had the Chief of the Boat there with me, thank goodness, and on the ship, I had a full lieutenant hanging about.

Response by SFC Richard W Middleton made May 12 at 2018 7:09 PM

2018-05-12T19:09:47-04:00

As a brother from Nothern Virginia served in Laos, Cambodia, North and South Nam we hardly saluted anyone. To get a salute you first have to get respect. Of course wearing civies most of the time we had very few problems

Response by CDR Clint Grimes made May 12 at 2018 9:04 PM

2018-05-12T21:04:56-04:00

Decades ago I was in Navy OCS on Naval Education and Training Center, Newport, RI. Officer candidates were not saluted. After being commissioned when I was in the fleet, we often had midshipmen on summer cruises, they were not saluted either. You don't get a salute until you get a commission.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2018 11:55 PM

2018-05-12T23:55:47-04:00

All Officers, Warrant Officers, Cadets, Warrant Officer Candidates, Senior NCO'S, Junior NCO's, the Junior Enlisted...too easy.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 9:06 AM

2018-05-13T09:06:29-04:00

No please don't salute cadets (me being one). We havent done anything yet, we are dots. We should be standing at parade rest for the NCOs and attention for the officers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 9:07 AM

2018-05-13T09:07:22-04:00

I’d say call them sir or ma’am of course, but they’re still just college kids at that point.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 9:58 AM

2018-05-13T09:58:25-04:00

I’ve been told countless times by my superiors that it is not required, but we should just so that.
A. Out of respect
B. That cadet may very well be your DIVO after he/she commissions so you may as well give off a good impression.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 1:31 PM

2018-05-13T13:31:10-04:00

Professional answer yes it's respectful but no its not yet required.

Unprofessional answer fuck him my boots have more time in service and my ass crack still has sand in it from Afghanistan then he will ever know

Response by SPC Lee Sweningson made May 13 at 2018 2:28 PM

2018-05-13T14:28:04-04:00

Cadets are NOT officers and do not get saluted as such. Had one want a salute back in the day and I told him to go fuck himself.

Response by SPC Mark McClenny made May 13 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-05-13T15:27:58-04:00

Three Cadets taught for a week when I was in boot camp at Fort Sill in 92. We were instructed to treat them like the drill sergeants. Referring to them as Cadet or drill Cadet. The drill sergeants treated them respectfully but it was pretty clear who was in charge. :-)

Response by SGT Christopher Breen made May 13 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-05-13T20:00:16-04:00

No they have not earned that right to me

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made May 13 at 2018 9:45 PM

2018-05-13T21:45:37-04:00

No it’s not required but be courteous and respectful is a plus and it doesn’t hurt salute one especially if they show equal respect and courtesy. I did some that worked with me It boils down to attitude with me hooah

Response by MAJ Charles Cozzens made May 13 at 2018 10:31 PM

2018-05-13T22:31:49-04:00

No, but as a future officer they should be afford respect due as a future leader that has a servants heart (welfare and safety of the men). Egos can get in the way, when it comes to safety the NCO has the call . NCO's as the NCOIC are responsible for safe training when involving all present. Cadets should be briefed on this matter before training begins. When in a learning environment, cadets need to be more concerned with what is going on with military skills and getting the mission done first. Respect is earned as well as the rank worn. I have had to salute the rank before and not the man. Things have changed a lot since I was in but the backbone is still the NCO esp the E-6 & E-7.

Response by Sgt Major Woods made May 14 at 2018 1:13 AM

2018-05-14T01:13:43-04:00

Cadets are actually ranked as SSG after their plebe year in pay. They DO NOT receive salutes until commissioning. To do so cheapens the real first salute.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 8:39 AM

2018-05-14T08:39:48-04:00

I won’t salute anyone who hasn’t earned it. Once the commission, or render my fingers to my forehead, but until then I don’t even look at them as a soldier. I was at the dining facility one time when I was leaving with a couple other E-4s we passed by a group of cadets. They stopped us and told us that we had to treat them like NCOs and give them the proper greeting of the day. We told them to fuck off…

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 14 at 2018 9:29 AM

2018-05-14T09:29:02-04:00

How is this a question? Must be an issue in the Army.

Commissioned Officers and warrant Officers rate a salute and that’s about it.

Almost an officer doesn’t count

Response by CDR Zachary Kitchen made May 14 at 2018 9:43 AM

2018-05-14T09:43:30-04:00

Not a commissioned officer, do not rate a salute. Pretty simple, IMHO.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 10:21 AM

2018-05-14T10:21:27-04:00

I spent 39 years in the U.S. Army, Active and National Guard. I started as an E-1, got commissioned as an E-6, and retired as an O-5. I still serve today as a GS-13. I learned something important about the Army early in my service: there are instructions written for everything the Army does. There is an equally important thing to remember about these instructions...sometimes they aren't clear or they can even be wrong on rare occasions. A JAG told me something about regs when I was an E-5 that stuck, too. "Regulations, except where explicitly stated, are guidelines for commanders. If it doesn't result in a UCMJ violation, a commander can prescribe whatever he likes." I see reference to the handoff of authority as referenced in AR 600-20 including cadets shoehorned between enlisted and warrant. However, of you read the AR from the beginning, you see that the definition of command is limited to warrant and commissioned officers. Every reference to command or command authority concerns warrant or commissioned officers. So why are cadets are mentioned in the oft-quoted chain of succession due to the sudden departure of a commander? Because by order of precedence in the AR they come after warrants and before NCOs. And that's it. Cadets have no command authority in an otherwise fully staffed unit. AR 200-25 outlines who is entitled to a hand salute, and cadet isn't one of them. Let's sum up...
1. Cadets are not entitled by regulation to a hand salute, by omission from the AR 200-25 list of who is entitled.
2. Commanders can add to regs as they see fit, and since AR 200-25 doesn't specifically prohibit rendering hand salutes to cadets, the commander (at any level) may prescribe it.
3. Cadets are between warrants and enlisted in order of precedence according to AR 600-20.
4. Order of precedence does not confer any command (or other) authority to cadets except in the absence of the duly appointed commander.

There. Clear as mud.

Response by PVT Rhea Pruitt made May 14 at 2018 11:43 AM

2018-05-14T11:43:40-04:00

My husband was a platoon SGT at the Cadet Command unit based out of Ft. Knox and they were instructed to not salute any cadet in training. In fact, the cadets were considered lower rank than any active duty personal there until they graduated.

Response by MAJ Doug Mattox made May 14 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-05-14T11:55:04-04:00

It used to be a program called SMP. It was up to the commander how they were utilized. Technically they are equivalent to an E-5. They receive E-5 pay. If the commander utilized them as an E-5, no salute. They can be utilized as an assistant platoon leader. So saying all that just to say, basically it is up to the commander.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 11:57 AM

2018-05-14T11:57:55-04:00

They technically outrank all enlisted, and are lower ranking than the most junior warrant officer. It is layed out in a regulation- whichever Army Command Policy is.

Response by Robert Murray made May 14 at 2018 2:59 PM

2018-05-14T14:59:02-04:00

At The Citadel, we were told that we only outranked the Commander's cat, the Presidents dog, and all the cadet captains at VMI. We certainly didn't outrank serving members of the military, and it was strictly enforced to show respect for them and their rank.

Response by Cadet PVT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 8:24 PM

2018-05-14T20:24:45-04:00

So with my experience at Guard drills I was told that they technically are suppose to call me sir and salute and all but I didn’t make a big deal out of it. When someone asked me about it I told them they didn’t have to. The way I see it I haven’t really earned that right or privilege. All the NCOs my first drill called me dot or my favorite cadot but it you have to take it as a joke and not get upset. I tried to hang around the NCOs to learn from them and bug them with questions. My second drill some did call me sir after getting to know me. The key is to not see your self above the enlisted espically the NCOs.

Response by SSG James Dennis made May 15 at 2018 2:20 AM

2018-05-15T02:20:12-04:00

Had a couple of West Point Cadets spend 2 weeks with me while I was on the trail, summer of 1990. The first few days of their cycle were spent acclimating them to the environment (PVTs didn't know what to do around them). By the end of the 1st week they had settled in fairly well. 2nd week I put them to work marching Joe from point A to point B, helping out where they could, etc. (I never left them alone with the platoon). By the end of the 2nd week I asked them what was the job of the officer and what was the job of the NCO. Both cadets knew EXACTLY what the job of the NCO Corps was-to train. I hope those 2 young cadets brought this lesson with them when they were commissioned.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2018 8:19 AM

2018-05-15T08:19:16-04:00

I’m the cadet in this photo. Not exactly the caption and article I want to be associated with...

Response by SPC Martin Meyer made May 15 at 2018 12:21 PM

2018-05-15T12:21:38-04:00

Cadets are not officers they are officers in training no different than anyone else of enlisted rank. They hold no official rank including that of private. When they graduate and become officers I would salute them, but that does mean I would respect them as an officer; as there are good and bad officers and served with both. Last officer I had was reason I decided not to re-enlist.

Response by SrA Scott Malone made May 15 at 2018 2:05 PM

2018-05-15T14:05:04-04:00

Why would anyone salute a cad-idiot

Response by CSM Jim Corrin made May 15 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-05-15T16:23:08-04:00

When we trained them they were addressed as "cadets". They remain such until they are commissioned. They deserve the same respect as any soldier does.....

Response by SFC Mark Dove made May 15 at 2018 5:52 PM

2018-05-15T17:52:20-04:00

Why... I taught Accelerated OCS. They don't have any rank til they are commissioned.

Response by SP5 James Pospisil made May 15 at 2018 8:35 PM

2018-05-15T20:35:19-04:00

My 2 Border Collies outrank a kadot

Response by PFC Michael Beck made May 15 at 2018 8:44 PM

2018-05-15T20:44:09-04:00

Only if they are a 3rd LT. Only knew one the 6 years I was in. He was a senior in college who had already been to his A camp between his junior and senior year.

Response by PFC Bobby Simpson made May 15 at 2018 9:15 PM

2018-05-15T21:15:57-04:00

Of all the cadets I have come across I do not once ever being called out of reg for not saluting them or anything

Response by MSG Douglas Tolliver made May 15 at 2018 9:38 PM

2018-05-15T21:38:22-04:00

1989 in Basic we had a Cadet assigned to our platoon. Presumably under the mentorship of the Drill Sergeants. The cadet walked into the bay and we just looked at him as nobody told us what his status was. The cadet looked at us and said "what are you supposed to do when an officer enters the room?" Well, we all jumped up and yelled attention! One of the Drills came out and told the cadet to "get in the office". After the cadet left the Drill Sergeant told us that "we'd better not do that again!" He said the guy "wasn't commissioned and didn't deserve it". Carried that the rest of my career. I used to tell my Soldiers that they didn't have to salute but they did have to show some respect.

Response by LTC David Jones made May 16 at 2018 12:16 AM

2018-05-16T00:16:20-04:00

Salutes are earned! No cadets are not officers and do not rate a salute in my book. Screw ROTC, I’m OCS myself!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 8:04 AM

2018-05-16T08:04:59-04:00

I always treated our visiting cadets with respect. I can't fault them for not knowing what they don't know. When I was a platoon sergeant, the PL and I took a couple of cadets to the 50 cal range with us, they had a great time. It has been my understanding that cadets (not high school) are saluted, I learned that a long time ago. I just don't get too wrapped around the axle about it.

Response by CW3 Walter Goerner made May 16 at 2018 8:49 AM

2018-05-16T08:49:50-04:00

I had many West Point cadets that were assigned to me during their summer training over the years and many assumed that they were to be saluted by enlisted personnel. Not all....some. The same with some of the ROTC cadets that were assigned during their summer training. Each were told that they were not Commissioned Officers until they completed their schools or the Academy, but they were students. I made that point clear when I was an instructor at West Point. Now we have an issue with MP sentries at the Gates of some of the installations not saluting retired officers upon the presentation of the ID card...not all....because the individual is retired. The rank is retired but not the Commission which remains until resignation or revocation and the Title 10, USC officer is entitled to a salute by enlisted members upon identification.

Response by TSgt David Desmarais made May 16 at 2018 9:11 AM

2018-05-16T09:11:55-04:00

What's the reg say??

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 9:26 AM

2018-05-16T09:26:53-04:00

The expectation on how the cadet will operate should be set by the company commander they are working with. They should know their left and right limits as soon as they get there. The other LT's in the company should assist with that intent as well. You are going to always have rock stars and idiots in any organization. Groom the good ones and mold, as best you can, the bad ones. If you want good officers in the force, they need to be shown what right looks like and NCO's are the ones to do that. Setting them up to fail is inexcusable realizing some you won't be able to teach or mold. My first conversation with my first PSG was; "I don't know a damn thing, but I want to learn and so I'm going to ask a lot of questions. Help me out." We had a great working relationship and I was very fortunate to have that guy in my back pocket. CW3 Bruce Love says it perfectly below.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 9:30 AM

2018-05-16T09:30:24-04:00

No they are not officers yet and should be called cadets. They are payed and are the equivliant of PFC. We had one try have all of the lower enlisted call him sir and and all of the NCO's got in his butt about it, so now we refer to all cadets ad CADIDIOTS. LOL

Response by Cadet 2nd Lt Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 9:48 AM

2018-05-16T09:48:28-04:00

In my opinion as an Air Force ROTC cadet, cadets should not be treated AS officers yet. On the contrary they should treat all members of the military with the utmost respect. At the end of the day that’s what it’s aboht right? In a leadership position you give/ have nothing but respect the people you lead. Should members of the military return that respect? Absolutely. All in all it’s just preparing/ conditioning a cadet for a leadership position and how to treat the people they will lead.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 10:39 AM

2018-05-16T10:39:51-04:00

No it isn't required yet. They are not a commissioned officer. They do however hold the rank of E5 till they get their commission

Response by CH (CPT)(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 12:40 PM

2018-05-16T12:40:22-04:00

All I know is that our cadets don't even salute me. I'm still respectful to them, as I am everyone, but if I need something, I'm going to an SNCO or NCO, not a cadet.

Response by SPC Marlise Edwards made May 16 at 2018 2:04 PM

2018-05-16T14:04:38-04:00

When I was in ROTC at college, I ended up having to go on post a couple times in uniform and received a number of salutes and promptly returned them. While I didn't feel it was required, I appreciated the respect shown and returned the favor. I ended up leaving college, to enlist but never forgot my experience as a cadet; therefore, I always saluted cadets.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 6:09 PM

2018-05-16T18:09:51-04:00

Cadet here, you don't salute us because we're not officers yet. Technically we are suppose to be called Sir but in my unit I'm either called by my name or "hey cadet." I feel like it's better for cadets not to be saluted or called Sir because we haven't earned the title of Officer yet.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made May 16 at 2018 10:06 PM

2018-05-16T22:06:24-04:00

no, until they take an oath as a commissioned officer and get their gold bars, nope you dont. Yea I have no issue with a Sr cadet that is respected by all, sure knock your self out but their is no requirement.

Response by SSG Ssg Carlos made May 17 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-05-17T11:25:56-04:00

Respect is earned not just given ...and you can salute the rank not the person

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2018 2:02 PM

2018-05-17T14:02:56-04:00

They are not officers yet and mistreatment of them on an enlisted or NCO soldier should be reported.

Response by PVT Timothy McNeil made May 17 at 2018 8:32 PM

2018-05-17T20:32:10-04:00

As I understand, a Cadet's proper title, by Act of Congress, is Mister. Any other privileges granted them are at the discretion of the Company CO.

Response by HN Tom Perry made May 17 at 2018 9:04 PM

2018-05-17T21:04:14-04:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-05-17T21:24:00-04:00

Before I read anything else, what I read from you was correct. Cadet is similar to recruit. You are positioned for a certain rank but have yet to obtain it. You can salute out of respect for the rank the are more than likely to hold but “cadet” is not a rank, it’s a status. Also..... if and when I salute a cadet it’s usually like a pep talk salute - your gonna lead us some day, earn this respect. That kind of thing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2018 10:21 PM

2018-05-17T22:21:13-04:00

I'm a cadet in my unit, most people don't like it and I think it is weird as well. I have returned a couple salutes but quickly let whoever know that it is not necessary and I'm just trying to get my experience in by training. I 100% agree, we have not commissioned yet so none of the rules should apply.

I make a habit to ask any E4 and up, what is something you look for in a PL, and what 2 bad memories do you have of one? I just don't wanna end up that guy, feel free to answer if you want.

Response by CPT Tom Talbott made May 17 at 2018 11:14 PM

2018-05-17T23:14:42-04:00

When I was a cadet I served in the national guard and held a staff position. I was referred to as Cadet and saluted. I was treated as a 2nd LT. The soldiers in the unit knew I would soon be commissioned and headed to active duty. I never got a big attitude over it and the troops showed me great respect. I guess it's how you carry yourself.

Response by SSgt Kenneth Jones made May 18 at 2018 1:12 AM

2018-05-18T01:12:11-04:00

I'm not Army, so I'll just say this: Years ago when I was stationed at Mcguire AF B, we had a program called Operation Third Lieutenant, in which Air Force TO TV Cadets were assigned under the supervision of commissioned officers from the base. It was made clear to them and the base enlisted troops that they were to be addressed as "Cadet," and they did not rate a salute.

Response by SSgt Kenneth Jones made May 18 at 2018 2:17 AM

2018-05-18T02:17:43-04:00

When I was stationed at Mcguire AF B years ago, we had a program for USAF Reserve Officer Training Corps cadets in the summer months called Operation Third Lieutenant. The cadets, were told that they didn't rate a salute, and the word was passed on to our airmen.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 5:44 AM

2018-05-18T05:44:28-04:00

No, they are not officers. They have not taken the oath and actually received their commission. You can and should show them respect but, a salute, NO!

Response by SPC Cody Byrd made May 18 at 2018 6:59 AM

2018-05-18T06:59:38-04:00

When I was in the army, we was asked to salute the cadets to get them use to getting saluting

Response by SSgt Elias I Colon Robles made May 18 at 2018 9:24 AM

2018-05-18T09:24:48-04:00

I agree with you. I think is NOT obligatory to salute the Cadet, but this is part of their training and preparation as future officers. On the other hand, I think the Cadet must return the salute, because a Private is noticing and recognizing him as a leader. Anyway, the salute is a sign of respect that HAVE to be earned by the Cadet; isn't something that comes automatically with the rank. So, saluting a Cadet must encourage the Cadet to earn respect of others.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made May 18 at 2018 9:28 AM

2018-05-18T09:28:42-04:00

A Cadet should no more be treated as a commissioned officer than an undergrad should be treated as faculty.
His position is analogous to an enlisted recruit, but on a higher scale of potential. Both cadet and recruit have much to learn, and are fortunate to have an entire Army to teach them.

Response by SFC Ssg Sabin made May 18 at 2018 5:01 PM

2018-05-18T17:01:36-04:00

Salute a kaydet (almost a 3rd Lt.)? Waste the strength in my right arm in a military display of respect to one who has yet to earn that respect??? It's usually bad enough that NCO's have to show that respect to a butter bar, but regs are regs, Roger That?

My grunt plt. had one of these kaydets attached to us during his 'summer break'. We were running through the SF school at Bad Tolz Germany, training in the use of the 'scout swim suit'. The suits were in very poor condition, many were ripped-up so bad they were really useless, but ya use what ya got and don't complain, right? We Paired up in buddy teams and were given the mission to swim from one side of the lake and return, real sneaky peat like! One of my squad leaders was assigned this kaydet as his 'buddy'. I told the kaydet to keep an eye on him because as far as I knew, he didn't know how to swim (the suits were supposed to provide a 'certain degree of flotation'), then I asked the Sgt. if he was OK with this mission. He answered in the affirmative.

Well, we set out. Before I knew it, I saw unusual splashing to my left, looked over, and there was the kaydet swimming all by his lonesome! I started to swim over as I was Yelling at him "where is Sgt. ......"? As I got to the point at where Sgt. ...... was supposed to be, the kaydet finally got the idea and swam back to me. I looked down, it was a clear Bavarian mountain lake so I could see all the way to the bottom with no problem. There was Sgt. ....... in the dying cockroach position, bubbles coming to the surface as he was sinking to the bottom. I went down, grab him, and pulled him to shore, where medics revived him. He was OK! Whew, close call!

I can't begin to share all the expletives I employed when speaking with the kaydet, but you have to imagine, it took several of my guys to keep me off of him!

A short time later, we were participating in some 'adventure training' where navigated some white water in 5 man assault rafts. While portaging over some barbed wire fence, this same kaydet dropped the end of his raft on the wire, allowing it to be punctured.

You know, people are people, regardless of where you are or what you're doing. But this guy was in his senior year at the academy, soon to be a commisioned officer. Salute him? Only if he were commissioned, and then request a transfer if I was under his command.

Response by 1SG Patrick Holmes made May 18 at 2018 5:29 PM

2018-05-18T17:29:02-04:00

Ive dealt with them before and i told my guys to be polite and respectful but only to salute them in the field because there could be a sniper looking for targets.

Response by Sgt Gerald Henthorn made May 18 at 2018 7:53 PM

2018-05-18T19:53:28-04:00

LOL!

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made May 19 at 2018 8:43 AM

2018-05-19T08:43:41-04:00

A commissioned is earned. Why would a military school cadet thinks he deserves a salute of the title sir??.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2018 10:59 AM

2018-05-19T10:59:59-04:00

A cadet must be saluted. Remember, the hand salute is a courtesy. It's not something one "earns." There are many informal things one earns. A cadet can't talk to the 1SG like a friend or counsel an E-4 on Soldier skills. But (s)he gets a salute. It's the Army way.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-05-19T11:01:38-04:00

Again. WRONG! You salute a cadet. How is this different from saluting a butter bar? Ease up, it's not like you're following them into battle.

Response by MAJ Thomas Amsler made May 19 at 2018 2:52 PM

2018-05-19T14:52:24-04:00

I had a checkered past. I have served in both the Marines and the Army. I did my undergrad work at North Georgia College (those in the Army will be familiar with the institution), and at NO time did we, as cadets, have the mistaken idea that we were to be saluted by anyone. In fact, we looked forward to our first salute after commissioning. In my case, I do think that SGTMAJ Richardson was a little chafed at having to salute a MARINE butter bar.

Response by SSG James James made May 19 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-05-19T16:23:46-04:00

Nope they have to become an Officer to be treated like one until then they are only a Cadet

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made May 19 at 2018 6:53 PM

2018-05-19T18:53:16-04:00

No!

Response by SPC Kendall Metcalf made May 19 at 2018 7:52 PM

2018-05-19T19:52:57-04:00

Dots and I never got along! And they tend to remember that once the get their Commission .

Response by CPL Randy Ward made May 19 at 2018 10:12 PM

2018-05-19T22:12:36-04:00

When we were training them. Our former C.O. told us not to salute cadets so we didn't

Response by CPT William Jones made May 19 at 2018 11:40 PM

2018-05-19T23:40:03-04:00

A salute is a greeting between military people. Some salutes at required and others not. all rendered to you should be returned as a sign of respect Who knows the ones you snub or mistreat in some way might be your boss someday.

Response by CPT Jim O'Donnell made May 20 at 2018 12:26 AM

2018-05-20T00:26:52-04:00

Not required,not yet earned their commission, still simply cadets i.e. Students.

Response by SP5 Dale Busby made May 20 at 2018 10:07 AM

2018-05-20T10:07:35-04:00

I was an ROTC instructor in 1977 and never saluted a cadet. At summer camp a fellow NCO and I had a cadet demand a salute. I told him to piss off and he started ranting and raving. We just walked away.

Response by SSgt Robert Atkinson made May 20 at 2018 11:54 AM

2018-05-20T11:54:59-04:00

As an ROTC Cadet in college, I interacted with regular Army on campus, at Army posts and on field training exercises. We were there to learn, every troop from buck private to the Colonel were our teachers! Our job was to learn! They had to train us not to cal sergeants “Sir!” My Father was an Aviation Cadet in the Nsvy in WWII, they were treated more or less like a junior petty officer, unless they were the pilot, then they were the aircraft commander. Nobody salutes Cadets!

Response by MSG Don Burt made May 20 at 2018 1:45 PM

2018-05-20T13:45:51-04:00

Cadets are just that and are training and learning as such until they are commissioned...respect they get, but salutes, no. If one is being obnoxious, then find out who their NCOIC OR OIC is have them
clarify the situ for the Cadet.

Response by SPC Stan LaCount made May 20 at 2018 3:50 PM

2018-05-20T15:50:41-04:00

We don't salute untested soldiers to be until they graduate. Some wanting a salute may never make grade. Wait till they are recognized as combat ready by those in charge of their training.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-05-20T20:37:32-04:00

In every environment (Army Guard, Reserve, and Regular Army), we have always treated the ROTCs and OCS Candidates as Officers. Remember though, they are there to lead and learn to be good officers. I have had the privilege of being taught by the best NCOs one could ever ask for.

Response by Maj Michael Spehar made May 20 at 2018 8:54 PM

2018-05-20T20:54:25-04:00

Though perhaps most cadets might not have it that way, there are some issues that come into play. Cadets are Category III military personnel under the Geneva Convention, together with WOs and junior officers. Cadets can be (and have been) tried by courts-martial. And regardless of their military utility under training, cadets have been treated as military personnel by enemies. So, salute or don't salute, cadets are in the military.

Response by Cpl Tommy Salmon made May 21 at 2018 12:42 AM

2018-05-21T00:42:05-04:00

If they are not yet “Commissioned” they would not yet be an “Officer”, would they? I’m just a former active duty Marine Corporal, so I don’t know Army regulations, but believe me - no self respecting Marine - especially a “ Terminal Lance Corporal” who has a Combat Action Ribbon” would feel obligated to salute in this scenario.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 6:18 AM

2018-05-21T06:18:01-04:00

I always called cadets, “Dot”, “Cadot”, or “future sir or ma’am”.

Response by Sgt Johnnie R Johnson made May 21 at 2018 7:26 AM

2018-05-21T07:26:32-04:00

I was stationed at the Air Force Academy from 76-80. At Base Orientation the Airmen & NCO's where instructed not to Salute the Cadets.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 8:00 AM

2018-05-21T08:00:48-04:00

They need to also learn that respect is earned from the troops by not trying to flex muscle that you really don't have. I can respect an officer that is willing to learn how to lead before They start barking orders. If the cadet is being a menace to lower enlisted, it may be time for a senior enlisted or officer to deal with them.

Response by SGT Steven Eberly made May 21 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-05-21T14:35:02-04:00

A cadet isn't an officer yet, until they join an Arm Force branch. So they are teenage learning to be one.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 4:19 PM

2018-05-21T16:19:17-04:00

No they are not due a salute. Not until they are commissioned. Saying he will be an officer one day is like giving private their PSD detail because one day he could be the CSM of the Army. A cadet is paid at the rank of E5 when he contracts as an SMP and is assigned to a unit. He is to shadow his PL for some OJT style of mentoring. He is not allowed to fire weapons, drive vehicles or hold any leadership role as a cadet because he has not been trained. Until the cadet is commissioned he is given a professionnal courtesy as a human being, that is all. Those positions is temporary they can wake up and say it’s not for them and walk away with just having to repay what the government has invested.

Response by Matthew Torrelli made May 21 at 2018 4:24 PM

2018-05-21T16:24:26-04:00

No they are just like a Pvt going through boot camp but there in school and are attached to a active or reserve unit for training

Response by SSG Fred Campbell made May 21 at 2018 5:50 PM

2018-05-21T17:50:32-04:00

As an NCO, you should be concerned with training the cadet. The ones who came thru my units, I would train em on leadership, to lead from the front. And proper military customs. They are at the unit to get a taste of what it’s going to be like being an officer, so for training purposes, salute and quit worrying about who’s balls are bigger..

Response by SFC Martin Reddy made May 21 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-05-21T17:59:47-04:00

They do not rate a salute.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made May 21 at 2018 7:02 PM

2018-05-21T19:02:06-04:00

Have you lost your mind? How long have you been in Sergeant? That's the stupidest question I have ever heard! NO YOU DON'T SALUTE CADETS! THEY ARE NOT COMMISSION OFFICERS. If you roll tomorrow for a combat zone do you think college boy is gonna be there? You both went to basic right? We salute stars, bars, leafs, and birds! Remember? A cadet is trying to make the team, you and your private are already on the team! Are you sure your in the Army?

Response by SGT Duane Kershaw made May 21 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-05-21T21:03:36-04:00

At Bragg we had a West Pointer assigned to our plt every summer. Nope referred to as cadet and never saluted!

Response by Col Robert Wallace made May 22 at 2018 12:46 AM

2018-05-22T00:46:01-04:00

With all due respect to those who are cadets and seeking to become commissioned officers, the key word is "commissioned", meaning they have not yet earned that commission. There is no regulation requiring Enlisted to salute Cadets but may do so as a courtesy or a sign of respect. For a cadet to insist on Enlisted saluting, will cause any respect to go down the drain. When this happens, undoubtedly those cadets are not thoroughly grasping all that they are supposed to be learning. They should fall out of ranks, take two steps back and reevaluate why they want to become a commissioned officer other than to "boss" Enlisted. If they intend to make the military a career, they need to lean fast and remember the definitions of "Respect and Courtesy".

Response by CPT Louis Jeffrey made May 22 at 2018 8:49 AM

2018-05-22T08:49:43-04:00

ROTC cadets in the advance course are enlisted. Prior to being commissioned they are Honorably Discharged PVT E-1.

Response by COL Peter Anderson made May 22 at 2018 10:36 AM

2018-05-22T10:36:07-04:00

When I was a cadet, a private out ranked us.

Response by SGT Dustin Buchanan made May 22 at 2018 11:32 AM

2018-05-22T11:32:38-04:00

Once they have completed their course and received their Direct Commissions, they are still students therefore they are not Officers.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 23 at 2018 5:31 PM

2018-05-23T17:31:24-04:00

God knows, when I was Army ROTC then USAF OTS, I sure wasn't...the OTS commandant loved driving past all of us in his car with the eagle plate, he caught me once when I was walking back down the hill from the main classroom building, I'd been in the library, thankfully, I saw him and saluted, he saluted back...once I was really hungry after running, I took half the cafeteria back with me on a tray, he saw it and said, "Really packing away the calories, son, you know?" I think he was more amused than anything else...I was actually pretty well starving at that moment, in all truth....

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made May 25 at 2018 5:52 PM

2018-05-25T17:52:04-04:00

And my response is quite simple..."NO." This will inhibit them from actually earning the respect of soldiers, and non commissioned Officers alike. That kind of behavior was not tolerated by myself and used to lock them up in the position of attention until I was tired of looking at them.

Response by SGM Jeffrey Hall made May 25 at 2018 6:03 PM

2018-05-25T18:03:05-04:00

Cadets should be treated as what they are, officers in training. I would recommend they be given some of the duties of an officer, with the understanding that they have no formal authority as an officer until they are commissioned. This is a prime opportunity for them to learn what will be expected of them, giving the organization a hand in the development of a new lieutenant.

Response by MAJ Robert Lindsey made May 25 at 2018 8:41 PM

2018-05-25T20:41:31-04:00

I was the TNARNGs 1st SMP Cadet, assigned to 196th FA, in April of 1981. . Interesting discussion. . MAJ RL Lindsey

Response by CW5 John M. made May 26 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-05-26T10:17:40-04:00

As a WOC for 9 months, I went from E-2 out of Basic to E-5 with flight pay when I got to Ft Wolters. I was never an NCO, but a WOC. As I recall, NO one saluted me, I saluted all officers, their cars, and anyone who I might have even "thought" could be officer - which included wives driving an Officer's car. If in doubt - salute. If I made a mistake, it was on ME. After all, what were they gonna do about it - send me to Nam? Actually, yes.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made May 26 at 2018 12:48 PM

2018-05-26T12:48:10-04:00

I say no for this reason. Cadets have not been commissioned into any military organization and in my experiences have pushed enlisted personnel around with no apparent reason. When I was pushed by a young cadet I made sure the lesson was very well learned. The cadet demanded a salute in a combat zone. I gave it and whoever pulled the trigger also noticed.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made May 27 at 2018 7:59 AM

2018-05-27T07:59:37-04:00

NO some of them shouldn't even after they have been commissioned

Response by MSgt J D McKee made May 27 at 2018 12:46 PM

2018-05-27T12:46:31-04:00

We were told during my Basic at Lackland in 1973 we had to salute them. We were also told as a cautionary tale that one had been caught wearing pretty much every medal there was in his cadet uniform. Yeah, that's right, the MOH, Silver Star, all the real combat medals. His youth gave him away, probably. Booted out, we were told.

Can anyone verify that cadets somewhere did or did not have to salute the water coolers because they were made by General Electric? Prevalent rumor during my day....

Response by CPT Alfred Smiley made May 28 at 2018 10:21 AM

2018-05-28T10:21:42-04:00

This is you're chance to help train a person to become a good officer. If the cadet has the proper attitude and you approach it correctly, it will be for the good of the Army. For example, you can approach the cadet with either a real or a hypothetical situation (one that's challenging, but not too difficult given their inexperience) and ask, "What are your instructions, Sir of Ma'am."
On the other hand, if the cadet's attitude is bad and they're just on a power trip, then you should send in a senior NCO to explain, in a fatherly tone, the difference between leading and earning respect on the one hand, and being a total ass on the other. If the problem persists, it should be referred to the ROTC instructors. In the meantime, play the game. I was an enlisted man for four years and never considered rendering a salute to be a demeaning act.

Response by SFC Paul R Ecker made May 29 at 2018 10:01 PM

2018-05-29T22:01:04-04:00

Until they get a commission, you should address them as cadet. I never saluted a cadet, just like I earned the rank of Sargent they earn the rank of an officer

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made May 31 at 2018 8:30 AM

2018-05-31T08:30:57-04:00

No.

Response by 1LT Otis R. made Jun 2 at 2018 1:11 AM

2018-06-02T01:11:57-04:00

NO! Cadets should be treated as cadets. Young soldiers learning to be leaders. I my units cadets were saluted BUT it wasn’t required or expected. It was a sign that the cadet was worthy of the respect from that soldier.

Response by LTC Mary Austin made Jun 3 at 2018 10:50 AM

2018-06-03T10:50:49-04:00

I went through Army ROTC and I was also enlisted private E1 before that. No one has to salute cadets. They are only saluted by other cadets according to the cadet rank structure, which his not in AR 670-1. Some cadets might be enlisted in the ARNG or USAR or ETS from active duty, but many are not even in the military yet.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Jun 3 at 2018 11:31 AM

2018-06-03T11:31:53-04:00

No they have to earn that salute. OH well most don't even earn their commission.

Response by LTC Mark Farrar made Jun 3 at 2018 1:25 PM

2018-06-03T13:25:47-04:00

Response by SPC Peter Essig made Jun 3 at 2018 3:54 PM

2018-06-03T15:54:20-04:00

Yes, it’s required. They’re still treated as commissioned officers when they train with units; for Army, Air Force, and Marine cadets, their rank (technically) is “third lieutenant.” It sounds bizarre, but there’s a little bit of history involved.

SEE: William Sitgreaves Cox (I couldn’t make that name up if I tried) and the USS Chesapeake during the War of 1812.

Likewise, Navy midshipmen are to be treated as commissioned officers when aboard ship.

Response by CWO2 James Mathews made Jun 4 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-06-04T13:23:26-04:00

In my view as a Master Chief and former Warrant Officer, who has had Cadets under instruction, a Cadet is not a commissioned Officer until he wears or has been awarded that rank. He is a student of Military Knowledge and is always considered to be in a learning situation. He should be treated with respect, given clear, valuable, instruction and allowed the experience of exercising under instruction, to gain a degree of familiarity with the topic of the moment. (Example), >>Pistol, >45 Cal. Automatic, (A) Learn the parts, mechanism, and action, (B) Under instruction, sight and shoot at a target without ammunition. (C) Learn the safety rules of a pistol range. (D) Under instruction, have the Cadet load and fire one round at the target. (E) Following the evaluation of the one shot, at the target, load & shoot, under instruction, five rounds at the target.<< Respectfully Submitted; Jim Mathews, TMCM (SS), CWO-2, USN (Ret.)

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 4 at 2018 2:42 PM

2018-06-04T14:42:50-04:00

NO...and if that isn't clear enough...NO. However, there is no reason enlisted members can't salute if they choose to...but it is not required.

Response by SGM Gerald Fife made Jun 5 at 2018 7:50 AM

2018-06-05T07:50:32-04:00

Correct me if I am wrong. I am to believe that Cadets are paid as an E 5. This was "back in the day." So that would make them enlisted. If I were the cadet I would have returned the salute from the Private.

Response by Sgt William Griffin made Jun 10 at 2018 8:00 AM

2018-06-10T08:00:38-04:00

Yes, you can salute cadets in respect but never make it requirement and never should they be treated to officers requirements.

Response by A1C James Guglielmoni made Jun 14 at 2018 11:01 PM

2018-06-14T23:01:57-04:00

I say no. I dealt with cadets during tech school down at Lackland Afb and Camp Bullis Tx. I asked our Cadre cause they were walking around in flight suits wearing shoulder boards with rank type symbols, These were 4th year Cadets from Air Force Academy at flight school. The Cadre said they are not even military don’t don’t give them the satisfaction of even a wave, if you have stripe and are active duty you out rank them.

Response by SGT Chris Flint made Jun 18 at 2018 2:00 PM

2018-06-18T14:00:27-04:00

It is every NCO responsibility to square away West Point cadets or ROTC cadets otherwise they will infect or confuse everyone in the unit
This allows everyone to control and manage their growth lol

Response by SP5 Art Schleinkofer made Jun 19 at 2018 5:22 PM

2018-06-19T17:22:49-04:00

No way. Cadets are not officers! It is good that they are not treated as officers. Having the perspective of an enlisted person will make them good officers.

Response by SFC Ronnie Pond made Jun 19 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-06-19T19:17:32-04:00

No that is why they are called cadets. You Address them as Cadet are as Mister when you are dealing with them. In the roll where they are placed in your Platoon as a platoon leader . they are still referred to as Mister are cadet. but with respect. And a salute is not required .

Response by Cpl Tyler Therrien made Jun 24 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-06-24T08:53:04-04:00

not only NO but Hell NO! cadets have not earned the right to be considered officers, they are not trained or qualified. "respect is earned not given"

Response by SGT Roger L Ormsbee made Jun 25 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-06-25T00:28:18-04:00

No they haven't the right yet

Response by SSG Robert Pratt made Jun 25 at 2018 9:13 AM

2018-06-25T09:13:56-04:00

Back when I was active duty stationed at Ft Riley KS and Ft Knox KY, my unit was tasked to provide support for summer cadet training. Even back then their cadet instructors referred to them as Cadet XXXXX. We never were required to salute them. There were always the few arrogant ones but they were usually quickly put in their place or reported to their cadre.

Response by MSgt Tina Ellis made Jun 25 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-06-25T20:00:10-04:00

NO, they have NOT earned the title

Response by MAJ Seth Goldstein made Jun 26 at 2018 9:47 AM

2018-06-26T09:47:30-04:00

A cadet is in no position to demand respect from anyone. Possibly, if the cadet if prior service but it would depend on the situation. If the cadet works hard and does the right thing concerning the best interest of soldiers then the respect will come without demanding it.

Response by SP5 Don Vaughan made Jun 26 at 2018 2:22 PM

2018-06-26T14:22:41-04:00

I joined the Tx National Guard when I came off active duty. I was Section Chief of a POL platoon. I started going to U of Tx. When I enrolled in ROTC I became a cadet with my unit. They left me in the same platoon for 1 year before moving me to HHQ to be Asst S3. When I became a Cadet, Itold them they did not have to salute me. A Cadet if I remember right is paid at E5 rate. They chose to salute me anyways out of respect.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2018 10:50 PM

2018-06-29T22:50:33-04:00

the age old question

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 9:22 PM

2018-07-02T21:22:44-04:00

There's a tricky line between having to salute & doing so as a sign of respect for training purposes. Most Commanders I have served with required we salute the cadets. Do you HAVE TO no & therefore they can't require a salute. It is beneficial to salute cadets as a training thing & often you can find training value in doing so that's beyond just the getting used to it. You can instruct on proper military customs & courtesies in the respective aspects (distance before saluting, greeting of the day, proper salute etc). Having said all that it does however always boil down to the CDR intent & guidance...this would be the only time it would be required!!

Response by MSG William Hesser made Jul 5 at 2018 11:57 AM

2018-07-05T11:57:44-04:00

No, they are technically NCO's while still in training until they graduate and get formally commissioned as an officer.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 9:59 AM

2018-07-16T09:59:38-04:00

Good article.

Response by TSgt John Bonnar made Jul 17 at 2018 4:26 PM

2018-07-17T16:26:14-04:00

Not until they graduate and become second lieutenant's

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Jul 22 at 2018 8:15 PM

2018-07-22T20:15:51-04:00

A cadet in an ROTC Detachment may have a cadet rank within the ROTC Detachment, but that is of no moment to any soldier in a regular Army unit. If a Cadet is assigned to an Army unit for temporary duty, which I have seen for West Point cadets in the summer, then he or she is treated as what amounts to a 3rd Lieutenant. With respect to pay grade, I believe Cadets are regarded as E-5's.
No Cadet should expect to be treated as a commissioned officer until they receive their commission.

Response by Cpl Bill Fleischauer made Jul 24 at 2018 4:46 PM

2018-07-24T16:46:44-04:00

Who notices cadet pukes, nonetheless salutes the maggots?

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Jul 27 at 2018 11:28 AM

2018-07-27T11:28:47-04:00

In 1959 we had a class of Cadets visit our unit for one week. One night I was on CQ and standing in the hallway was a group of 4 Cadets. They were smoking and one Cadet threw his cigarette but on the floor and squirmed his foot on it. I sasw it and went out a chewed his ass out up one side and the other. I told him he had to clean it up and polish the tile floor. He did it immediately. At the time I as an SP5 E-5. The next morning I explained to our First Sergeant what I had done the night before and he said forget it. I never heard about it again. So, I guess an E-5 can chew out a Cadet.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 7:03 AM

2018-07-28T07:03:41-04:00

They are not yet commissioned. Therefore, there is no requirement to salute them. It is tradition and regulation to salute commissioned and warrant officers (included since a WO1 gets that courtesy as well). When the cadet gets that gold bar they can run around enjoying the tradition of saluting everything that walks in uniform.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 3:31 PM

2018-07-31T15:31:25-04:00

Key word being “commissioned.” Until you commission you are not an officer. You are simply in the process and that’s the way it is. That’s like an enlisted person saying they should be treated as a non-commissioned officer because they could possibly be one soon. My unit is at West Point right now training cadets. Do we treat them with respect? Of course. Do we treat them like they are officers? Not a chance.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-08-03T20:00:12-04:00

Coming from a former Captain, who was a former NCO, I'd say that a cadet starting out to be a "rank-meister" right away like that will be a horrible leader.
I would call them cadet and that's that. I would never salute some snot nosed college student, especially when they're demanding it as if they have done anything to earn it.
Your PL/Cdr should be squaring this future "Captain Soble" away.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 5 at 2018 6:56 PM

2018-08-05T18:56:05-04:00

Baaahahahahaahahaa!!!! Yes, they get treated as officers and they should act like one. It's their first taste of being an officer. Same for WOCs and OCS candidates wearing "WOC" or OCS" rank. They feel just as uncomfortable as you do. I wore WOC rank for 9 mos and it was a weird experience - I was a SFC and some people knew it so it was unusual. Just play along, it's part of the breaking in process. Plus by regulation you are required to do it. AR 600-20 I believe and it doesn't matter if they are from West Point or ROTC - they are a cadet and outrank an NCO. Yes I know it's strange but that's the way it is.

Response by PO3 Brad Phillips made Aug 8 at 2018 6:32 AM

2018-08-08T06:32:08-04:00

We had a few come aboard my first command for a few weeks. These cadets was saluting enlisted. Lol they didn't know what they was supposed to do. I let one of them know the ins and outs. He was greatful. Kept letting his fellow cadets make the same mistake. I liked that guy..lol

Response by MSG(P) Thomas Finn made Aug 10 at 2018 10:03 PM

2018-08-10T22:03:05-04:00

Respect is earned!

Response by SGT Unko Bo Jav made Aug 17 at 2018 5:34 PM

2018-08-17T17:34:56-04:00

No.

Response by COL William Oseles made Aug 24 at 2018 8:18 PM

2018-08-24T20:18:31-04:00

AS COL Williams points out a Cadet on CTLT does outrank enlisted personel and they are on Active Duty as 3LTs which put them in the Chain of Command. And as with all LTs it is the job of the NCOs to train them.
A Cadet on CTLT is a different beast than a Cadet. Perhapss one should bear in mind that Cadets on a CTLT tour are going to go on Active Duty in a year or so and you may work for them as a 2LT once they finish their 3LT tour and are commissioned.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2018 11:56 PM

2018-08-28T23:56:06-04:00

Same question goes should A high school kid be treated like a senior advisor? I think not as a cadet you don't hold any rank in the military. The rank structure goes from e1-e9, w1-w5, o1-o10 nowhere on that scale is c1-? you can want to be military all day long but at the end of the day if you wash out from cadet school then your the same civilian you were before joining jrotc

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Sep 3 at 2018 3:12 PM

2018-09-03T15:12:48-04:00

No. Treat them with the respect you'd want paid to you but they are not yet officers.

Response by AN Eric Lewis made Sep 3 at 2018 8:44 PM

2018-09-03T20:44:20-04:00

It's been a lifetime, but when I was in a Naval Hospital on med hold before my medical retirement, there always seemed to be some midshipmen running around. I was told to treat them as any other officer - call them sir and ma'am. Salute them if outdoors wearing a cover. But, remember that they weren't a part of my chain of command so refer them up my chain if they tried to order me to do something since they weren't aware of my restrictions (most were no brainer since I was in a wheelchair or on crutches most of the time). All of them were nice to me but, then again, I always treated them with respect. I figured they needed to feel like they were officers.

Response by LCDR William Higgins [LION1000+] made Sep 5 at 2018 1:41 PM

2018-09-05T13:41:18-04:00

I feel it depends on the service year for the cadet or midshipman. As a third class, they are entering their sophomore year, and are on summer programs to work alongside enlisted to learn from them. In their other summer duty, First Class Mids are entering their senior year, and are acting as officers on the summer cruise, learning the duties and responsibilities of Junior Officers. They do have a service commitment as enlisted if they do not graduate. While I was a mid I never required a salute, but appreciated and returned any given.

Response by Brad Powers made Sep 6 at 2018 12:42 AM

2018-09-06T00:42:17-04:00

I always thought saluting an officer's uniform is a show of acknowledgement and respect for the officers authority and as a reminder to the officer's of there duty. I am not in the military that is just what I think.

Response by SPC Larry Johnson made Sep 9 at 2018 7:54 PM

2018-09-09T19:54:13-04:00

I remember we had cadets in basic and we had to say “yes or no drill cadet” but we didn’t have to salute them

Response by PO2 Steven Youngblood made Sep 13 at 2018 5:45 PM

2018-09-13T17:45:07-04:00

I as a rule try to be courteous to everyone, as force of habit. I still loose it sometimes, working on it.
if he is showing proper military bearing,but just doesn't know any better, I will return the salute.
But be a jerk and I will become AMS2 Youngblood Aircrewman, Line supervisor, I will have you on the worlds longest FOD walk down. not only does rank matter, but time in rank matters

Response by CDR James Worley made Sep 15 at 2018 10:02 PM

2018-09-15T22:02:55-04:00

AYSM? Many of us have gone through hell in order to BARELY deserve a salute from enlisted members, many of whom already had decades of service.
These folks need a reality check.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Sep 16 at 2018 6:47 AM

2018-09-16T06:47:55-04:00

I say no to this one. Why? Because they are LEARNING to BECOME OFFICERS. They at that stage are not officially in the military.

Response by MSgt Michael Cronin made Sep 16 at 2018 7:40 PM

2018-09-16T19:40:36-04:00

NO!

Response by SSG Lamert Adi made Sep 18 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-09-18T20:37:19-04:00

Yes that’s true, but if we are to teach them the important role they will play when they do become officers in the US army, than we need to start training them now... in my years of service I have had many cadets report to my unit and were put in leadership position as platoon leader and it became the platoon Sargents job to train and keep an eye on them... of course with the commands permission. But when the cadets need a talking to I always directed them to the 1SG or commander.

Response by MSgt Mason Manner made Sep 26 at 2018 10:48 PM

2018-09-26T22:48:56-04:00

Cadets should not be saluted they are not officers not warrant OFFICERS they are in training in pay grade E-5 the only thing officer officer about THEM are some uniform items and they are addressed as Cadet

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Oct 1 at 2018 10:39 PM

2018-10-01T22:39:13-04:00

I believe the millenniums think the world owes them something. The snowflakes have been raised to think even losers get trophies. Cadets are NOT commissioned and they do not rate a salute. They are students. If you want to show them a sign of respect salute. I would not salute a student. They have to earn that right by getting a commission. I am old school (59-66) Marine corp and Army. Cadets have to learn nothing is given they half to earn it. Semper Fi.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Oct 2 at 2018 7:53 PM

2018-10-02T19:53:48-04:00

A commission is earned and should not be acknowledged before hand.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2018 5:01 PM

2018-10-03T17:01:15-04:00

I'm stationed at West Point and I can tell you concretely that NCOs do not solute cadets per policy and regulations already mentioned.

Yes cadets are higher than NCOs but they are not soluted at any time until after they are Commissioned upon Graduation.

Any cadet that tries to force soldiers or NCOs to salute them is wrong. They still fall under Weat Point policy and regulation regardless of where they are for CTLT until the day they graduate.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Oct 7 at 2018 9:15 PM

2018-10-07T21:15:11-04:00

Not going to beat a dead horse on this one, but had one at my first duty assignment and learned early of their status...
Am extremely surprised this isn’t in the Soldier’s Basic Training manual each soldier get when inprocessing nowadays or quite frankly, done years ago...! Should provide a small excerpt in it regarding Cadets, their rank, and simple duties/purpose of when they come to the units of the regular Army during their training.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2018 9:41 PM

2018-10-07T21:41:05-04:00

they are actually suppose to be addressed as Mr. or Mrs. you do not render a salute to a cadet because in the actual cadet regulations, we are not considered officers. are rank status is considered a CADET. We did not earn the title of ma'am or sir until we have commissioned.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Oct 7 at 2018 11:47 PM

2018-10-07T23:47:31-04:00

That cadet should have returned the salute, then addressed the Pvt. That saluting a cadet , while respectful isn't necessary.

Response by 1LT Steve Kettel made Oct 9 at 2018 9:38 PM

2018-10-09T21:38:33-04:00

At Federal OCS, cadre, support Soldiers would salute. I always thought it was more to establish good military bearing, than a necessary custom. Cadets are not yet employed by the Army. Hence, the reserve moniker. A Soldier who has completed basic and AIT should garner more respect than a cadet.
Besides, it will teach officers they serve the Soldiers , not the other way around (#ServantLeader)
In my opinion, a private can know more than a cadet, so I am of the belief the greeting of the day should be enough.
I had too many fresh 2LTs at the schoolhouse as HHC XO who thought they were gods, -slash- God's gift to the Army and American people.
ROTC-ers we're bad. West Pointers we're the WORST. (in that regard)

Response by Lt Col Paul DeSisto made Oct 10 at 2018 7:42 PM

2018-10-10T19:42:51-04:00

No. Our cadet regulations are the AF Academy specifically stated that as cadets we do not rate a salute. If an enlisted person did sakute you you were to return the salute as if you were an officer.

Response by CMSgt Peter McDermott made Oct 11 at 2018 3:24 PM

2018-10-11T15:24:29-04:00

The salute is a courteous exchange of greetings now but years ago it was a form of showing you were unarmed "Romans". As you said Cadets are not even part of the military yet and until sworn in as an officer no salute will be given or warranted. If a salute is given to a Cadet, then they should return it, but not by regulations. No harm nor fowl. The respect you speak of is given to those who earned it period, as we know actual respect is not demanded. That in itself is an entirely another point of discussion. Today the salute is required by regulation but when properly done shows you believe in and respect the courtesies and traditions of our military and pride in yourself, your unit and abilities. The question was posed many times about respecting or not respecting the commissioned officer. Well rest at ease, as a salute is a "gesture" of respect to the commissioned officer and in "return" they show the same "Gesture" of respect back to you.
Pete McDermott CMSgt (Retired)

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Oct 12 at 2018 8:58 AM

2018-10-12T08:58:51-04:00

Absolutely not!

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 14 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-10-14T08:52:24-04:00

No.

Response by SSG Terry Kelley made Oct 14 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-10-14T21:16:37-04:00

NO.

Response by MSgt David Kirkpatrick made Oct 20 at 2018 10:26 PM

2018-10-20T22:26:09-04:00

No, they are not required to be saluted, nor can can force an enlisted individual salute them. They are not yet a commissioned officer.

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made Oct 21 at 2018 9:53 AM

2018-10-21T09:53:35-04:00

Hek no, there not commission yet, and that silver dot is not recognized by the military as part of the chain of command. Once in a while you find a young buck officer wannabe, that believe that he or she should be saluted while in training at the company or battery level. His not an officer yet , so hek no, don’t salute them.

Response by SGT Larry Braswell made Oct 24 at 2018 7:49 AM

2018-10-24T07:49:24-04:00

If in doubt, salute it. What's the worst that can happen?

Response by LTC Joseph Bost made Oct 27 at 2018 5:03 PM

2018-10-27T17:03:16-04:00

Absolutely not. Ridiculous of the cadet to even state such a thing.
And yes, this after 31 years of active Army duty served first as an Enlisted Soldier PFC (11B), then W1, W2, W3, then as an O3, O4, and O5. And as an Assistant Professor of Military Science at GA. Tech.

Response by SGT Ruben Canizalez made Oct 29 at 2018 3:47 AM

2018-10-29T03:47:00-04:00

Cadets are not commissioned; therefore, enlisted dont salute them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2018 9:23 AM

2018-11-01T09:23:44-04:00

I'll call them sir or ma'am but I will not salute them because they are not commissioned officers. If I ever run into a cadet who thinks they deserve a salute or is playing the salute game, I'll quickly square them away.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Nov 1 at 2018 2:12 PM

2018-11-01T14:12:04-04:00

I spent a few years as a Cadet at a senior military school. I did not expect, or even consider expecting, to be saluted by other service members. The smart Cadets go to line units to LEARN. Not to demand respect or responsibilities of their potential future rank.

I know of one cadet who shadowed an infantry unit for close to 2 years. He commissioned and was assigned as PL in the very same unit he shadowed. He tried doing the "hard and fast, I'm in charge now" routine. And attitude change from his platoon sergeant later the new LT was crying and requested a transfer.

Response by MAJ Pete Joplin made Nov 13 at 2018 12:17 PM

2018-11-13T12:17:54-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Teach your Soldiers that they can NEVER be wrong in rendering a hand salute, and "when in doubt, whip it out." Conversely, the only person in an exchange of this courtesy who can be wrong is the Officer who fails to recognize the very high honor that a subordinate is offering. That would appear to be what happened with this Cadet, but I suspect that was purely from inexperience, and not a refusal to return the high respect. I spent 24 years returning every single courtesy ever paid to me, and going out of my way to keep my eyes on a soldier across the street, who might be paying me that honor, so that I didn't miss it. Neither are wrong here, and both can enjoy a teaching moment.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Nov 13 at 2018 12:41 PM

2018-11-13T12:41:01-05:00

I've dicovered that they should be treated as officers because they do outrank NCOs and Enlisted.

AR 600-20, Section 2:2-18:a:(3)

2-8. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander

a. Commander of Army element.

(1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command.

(2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander.

THIS IS THE CRITICAL PARAGRAPH

(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, Cadets, NCOs, Specialists, or Privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander “during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander” if the announcement gives the time element involved. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period.

Response by SPC David Wyckoff made Nov 15 at 2018 2:29 PM

2018-11-15T14:29:25-05:00

I never ran into this while I was active and the only cadet story I have is from AIT back when LT Washington was trying to whip us into shape to cross the Potomac.
Fort Belvoir, 1989. A lot of lowly Pvts standing in line for chow, parade rest/eyes front/zipped lips. A big cluster fuck of uniforms goes cruising past us, half stepping and bullshitting, into the chow line. Drill Sergeant A (one SSG type), comes right on their heels at that all too familiar "I'm gonna get a piece of that ass" fast paced DS walk.
We hear commands being barked and trays hitting the floor from inside the chow hall and that same CF comes flurrying right back out of the chow hall. Drill Sergeant A is right behind them. He forms them up in the parade area. I would say he was chewing ass but funny enough all he was doing was asking questions, mostly.

Do you see these men standing in line?
Do you want these enlisted men to follow you; to obey your orders?
Is that the kind of officers you want to be, to make sure that you get yours before your men eat?
These men are at least real soldiers. They have already passed BCT.
What makes you think you have earned the right to eat before these men?
It went on for quite a while. I don't know if it made an impression on them or not, but it sure did on me.

Response by CPO Chris Kellar made Nov 19 at 2018 10:44 AM

2018-11-19T10:44:49-05:00

Sounds like she is going to one them that no one respects...

Response by CPO Chris Kellar made Nov 19 at 2018 10:45 AM

2018-11-19T10:45:52-05:00

Guess she will be one of those... One no one respects because she thinks she it.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 1:04 PM

2018-11-19T13:04:41-05:00

Should a high school freshman be treated like a high school graduate?
Should a Boot Camp recruit be treated like a combat veteran?
Should an Army Private be treated like a Command Sergeant Major?

Reckon I made my point.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2018 12:24 AM

2018-11-20T00:24:48-05:00

As to your question … "it depends".

I came up through ROTC as a Cadet and understood very clearly I was NOT entitled to a salute because "Cadet" is not a formal military rank, nor do they have formal leadership authority over Soldiers for the most part. If the Cadet is only in an ROTC program, then in that role, NO, they are not treated as commissioned officers, as they have not yet earned that rank.

For the "it depends" part ... In some cases, Cadets are in additional options such as the "Simultaneous Membership Program" (SMP) where they drill with a National Guard or Reserve unit to learn the roles and responsibilities of a commissioned officer while they are going through the ROTC program, but they are still not commissioned nor entitled to a salute (SMP is related to, but separate from being in ROTC). They are, however, sometimes put in semi-formal leadership positions if the unit is short officers (such as was the case in the National Guard unit with which I served as a SMP Cadet). In cases like that, it would be appropriate to give them the support and NCO mentorship that would be given to a new LT to help them grow and mature in their leadership abilities. However, the actual commissioned officers in the unit should always properly mentor / counsel the Cadet to ensure he / she knows their "left and right limits" and how to properly work as professional teammates with the NCOs and Junior Soldiers in the organization.

If, as some have mentioned, the Cadet "demands" a salute, they should be referred to the commissioned officer leadership in the unit for some "retraining" on said left and right limits. However, as you mentioned in your original question, if a Soldier decides to voluntarily salute the Cadet as a sign of respect, that is up to them and it is incumbent upon said Cadet to properly return the salute.

Response by MSG Gene Nichols made Nov 21 at 2018 11:38 AM

2018-11-21T11:38:57-05:00

I once worked with a cadet, USMA, for one summer. We treated each other with respect, but we didn't salute, nor did I call him Sir. I called him cadet. No problem, when he returned to the academy I wished him well and told him I would watch to see if he got a Star in another 20 years or so.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2018 2:12 PM

2018-11-23T14:12:29-05:00

NO they have not earned the right to be saluted yet. The day they become a commissioned Officer they rate a salute and I am proud to give them one at that point

Response by CDR Jerry Wells made Nov 28 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-11-28T09:40:39-05:00

I can only speak to the Navy and the answer is no. They are enlisted. Kind of a special place and paid as E-5's back 40 years ago when I was an officer candidate. They are not officers and they are there to learn from the senior and junior enlisted. Sounds like this young candidate has a long way to go on the learning curve. It appears the candidate does not demonstrate the proper attitude to become a good officer. Leadership requires the ability to follow and learn also.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2018 10:30 AM

2018-11-28T10:30:20-05:00

According to regs, a cadet out-ranks every enlisted Soldier. If you are enlisted, you should show your professionalism even in the face of stupidity.

Response by CPT Stanley Kober made Nov 28 at 2018 6:54 PM

2018-11-28T18:54:33-05:00

AR 600-20 chapter 12 table 1-1 puts the Cadet between the WO and the Senior NCOs, on paper. In reality, I would suggest that it's up to the local commander to determine if Enlisted/NCOs are to salute or not since I couldn't find anything in the AR that definitively required them to be saluted.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2018 11:23 AM

2018-11-29T11:23:50-05:00

No.

Response by PO3 John Wright made Nov 29 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-11-29T13:42:29-05:00

I had a Midshipman, give me a problem during his stay in the store room during replacement. I told him to clean his mess, and he informed me that he was a midshipman, and that we was not going to clean. I informed him to remove himself from the storeroom, and we will continue this later. He went to SCPO and put me on report. I explained to SCPO, after our conversation, SCPO asked me if I would place the Midshipman on report, for not following the order of a PO in the US NAVY. So, to answer your question, NO salute. However if a PVT. did salute a cadet, the cadet should have returned the salute in respect.

Response by MAJ James Woods made Nov 30 at 2018 12:37 PM

2018-11-30T12:37:53-05:00

No. ROTC cadets are not officers which is why jokingly we were called 3rd LTs. Now some commanders would tell troops that cadets part of the summer CTLT programs will be treated as officers and you’ll salute them. Cadets that went to Drill Cadet programs like myself were acting NCOs shadowing Drill Sergeants at Basic.

Response by SSG Chris Smallwood made Nov 30 at 2018 3:38 PM

2018-11-30T15:38:56-05:00

Outside of some extreme circumstances the answer is no, they can't even assume command. It revolves around the meaning of the term "regularly assigned" in 600-20, it doesn't mean present but actually part of the US Army. ROTC cadets are not yet part of the US Army, they have not been assigned to any Army unit nor are in an billets. The reason they are mentioned in the regulation is that it's technically possible for ROTC cadets to enter into service and be rushed into a war zone as a junior officer, though the Army would almost certainly just commission them first.

Now having said that, a unit commander can always assign responsibilities to them and in that case it's no different then any other additional duty position where the individual is vested with limited command power via policy. Barracks CQ is a good example of this happening, a SPC serving as the CQ has the commanders authority as outlines by the commander's policy. So we can have a cadet vested with authority over a mission or task while having subordinates placed under them even though they aren't regularly assigned to the US Army.

Response by Sgt James De Napoli made Dec 3 at 2018 4:36 AM

2018-12-03T04:36:10-05:00

Hell no!! No formal respect of any office is to be rendered to any individual until said office is achieved! If you didn't earn it, you don't deserve it...

Response by COL Walt Frederick made Dec 4 at 2018 2:26 PM

2018-12-04T14:26:36-05:00

If the attitude you describe is true, she will have a long hard road as respect is earned. She also does not seem to be a servant leader. If an SMP Cadet is contracted she or his is getting paid as an E-5. I suspect she may pull this on a lower ranking enlisted person in a semi-private setting, but, she would not dare do it to a CSM in the view of senior officers. No, you don't salute a cadet.

Response by SPC Randy Holloway made Dec 4 at 2018 10:33 PM

2018-12-04T22:33:59-05:00

No they shouldn't be saluted, because they're not actually in the Army yet. The one summer when doing R.O.T.C. support in Ft. Lewis, I had a group of cadets trying to order me and some others around. I told them that they're not commissioned yet and they started being assholes. By then a full bird Colonel came up to us and he chewed their asses out. He told them that if he ever caught them acting like that again while they're there, he'll get their names and make sure their lives would be completely miserable the moment they earn their commissions.

Response by SSG K Johnson made Dec 6 at 2018 12:16 AM

2018-12-06T00:16:56-05:00

I did for the ones that carried themselves as such and respected my experience as an enlisted man. Otherwise Dot was the appropriate term.

Response by MAJ T. W. made Dec 6 at 2018 2:20 PM

2018-12-06T14:20:45-05:00

Most on here seem concerned with how they feel rather than what the regs say.

CCR 145-11:

While serving in leadership positions, ROTC cadets are not authorized to issue orders to individual enlisted members; however,
commanders are encouraged to ensure that cadets are given courtesies and respect normally reserved for officers of the U.S. Army. Their
military rank is above that of enlisted personnel, but below that of commissioned or warrant officers.

c. Socially, ROTC cadets will be treated as junior officers sharing fully in the normal social and recreational opportunities available
to officers of the command.

3-2. Duties.
a. Cadets will serve as platoon leaders or in an equivalent officer position and will perform duties that are normally
given a newly assigned second lieutenant.

3-3. Military courtesy.
Cadets will serve in officer positions. Enlisted personnel will be encouraged to salute cadets and
address them as "Sir" or Ma'am" or by their title and surname (e.g., "Mister Jones" or "Miss Jones"). Official
correspondence will refer to them as cadets (e.g., "Cadet Jones"). Cadets will not be referred to as "third
lieutenants".

Commanders will ensure the personnel of his/her command understand these instructions.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Dec 6 at 2018 3:26 PM

2018-12-06T15:26:38-05:00

No; they are not officers. Have they been commissioned? An officer is saluted. That is one of our greatest traditions. Just because you are a cadet does not mean you are cut out to be an officer. Some cadets may not even make it past graduation although that is not common but I feel they need to earn it first by actually being an officer in the Army. Cadet is not a rank.

Response by CPO Michael Hatten made Dec 6 at 2018 10:43 PM

2018-12-06T22:43:02-05:00

I have always thought that the biggest issue with the relationship between officers (including cadets and midshipmen) were the bad feelings about the customs of rank. Saluting, which should be about mutual respect, is turned into some kind of ritual of subservience. Who calls whom "sir" is the same. Seldom are people wigged out about positional authority and who is in charge during an evolution. It always seems to be demanding or refusing to give the first salute or failing to call someone "sir" that sets up the toxic interaction. Maybe some of this 18th Century behavior needs to be reevaluated.

Response by CW5 Dennis Stewart made Dec 7 at 2018 10:10 AM

2018-12-07T10:10:01-05:00

As a Warrant Officer, I had many of these cadets come through and would salute and give the greeting of the day. It was simply a nice hello nothing more.

Response by TSgt Gary McPherson made Dec 7 at 2018 11:37 AM

2018-12-07T11:37:06-05:00

NO.Not until they are sworn and take the oath.Who knows some may fail the training.They gave not earned that action yet.I have a close friend who's son is going though the USAF academy now.He said he wants me to give him his 1st salute when he becomes a 2nd Lt as his father just passed away.Ge did say Not until he is sworn.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2018 11:40 AM

2018-12-07T11:40:46-05:00

When I was on Ft. Stewart a few months back getting my ASUs altered, a SGT came up to me and said “How are you doing Sir?” At first I assumed he was talking to an officer but then I realized he was talking to me. I said “How are you doing SGT? You don’t have to call me sir, I have accomplished anything just yet..”. He said that in his unit they had to refer to cadets by sir/ma’am.

We ended up chatting for a few minutes. Wasn’t that big a deal. Nobody saluted me (thankfully). I want my first salute to come from my brother at my commissioning ceremony. Had I been saluted I would have quickly returned it and explained that it wasn’t needed.

Response by CWO3 Mark Davies made Dec 7 at 2018 12:27 PM

2018-12-07T12:27:16-05:00

Not until they receive their commission, until then they are the same as an E-1

Response by PO2 Robert Macleod made Dec 7 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-12-07T14:07:16-05:00

no no no earn it first

Response by Cpl Geoff Smith made Dec 8 at 2018 12:53 PM

2018-12-08T12:53:20-05:00

Not commissioned, not an officer yet. May even washout of program and never be an officer.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-12-08T17:10:25-05:00

Yes and no. They should be held to the standards of commissioned officers but not affording the privelage of the rank

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Dec 8 at 2018 9:28 PM

2018-12-08T21:28:57-05:00

We,were told that cadets were like higher ranking NCOS. ALSO as the saying goes,if in doubt whip it out.

Response by SSG Rheta Perez made Dec 9 at 2018 7:54 AM

2018-12-09T07:54:24-05:00

I thought they were only saluted AFTER commission. I worked at WAC headquarters at Ft MCClellan, Alabama in the 70’s and we had WAC officer training there. As I recall, most were “dot”s but some wore rank. We were courteous to all and saluted the Lts.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Dec 9 at 2018 3:37 PM

2018-12-09T15:37:42-05:00

No she was big time wrong! Like Sgt Andrew A. says she is not a commissioned officer warrant.
I would do two things here. If I were the Enlisted soldier referenced here I would say "Excuse me Cadet or Miss______ " and carry on with the task at hand. Hopefully that task took me out of the area. If the situation continued I would discuss the issue my Chain of Command.
As a commander I would counsel the Cadet on this issue. That would not be a pleasant conversation; I would reinforce her position and duties in the command. If the situation persisted I would make her Professor of Military Science aware of this situation.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Dec 9 at 2018 7:15 PM

2018-12-09T19:15:51-05:00

I cadet is a E-5 until commissioned.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Dec 9 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-12-09T20:39:30-05:00

30+ years ago we asked a JAG officer and they said no!

Response by 2LT Earl Dean made Dec 10 at 2018 4:45 PM

2018-12-10T16:45:04-05:00

After a number of years as a platoon Sargent I was tired of having dots and new lieutenants given to me to train into the unit. So I went to OCS and became an officer. There we we're flat told that being saluted as a dot is NOT mandatory. It is a respect issue only and not part of the UCMJ. Commissioned officers however is different. I always made sure OCS coming into my unit new until they got there commission it was up to the Soldier. I explained to them.if they wanted to be saluted earn it

Response by CSM Robert J. "Bob" Parr, RD made Dec 10 at 2018 11:53 PM

2018-12-10T23:53:47-05:00

Never; they are not commissioned. A salute is a unique and meaningful gesture of respect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2018 12:38 PM

2018-12-11T12:38:43-05:00

I'm enlisted in the Army National Guard (68W) and also a contracted cadet at a senior military college. Personal opinion, I dont think cadets should be saluted by personnel enlisted in the Army. One- most cadets have not finished advanced camp or BOLC and at any time can lose their commissioning contract if seen unfit to be an officer. While it is good to practice for an officer in the making and a sign of respect that he/she or whatever they identify as, will appreciate lower enlisted once they officially become an officer. I salute back if I'm saluted as a "dot" or "SMP" but if not, I dont get butthurt and call them out. I usually base it off of the unit's standards and how they want deal with that.

Response by Sgt Peter McDonald made Dec 12 at 2018 11:38 PM

2018-12-12T23:38:17-05:00

While a sergeant and still active Marine Corps in 93, I had two Annapolis Cadets in our Battalion that wanted to be saluted. I was respectful to them and advised them that they were Cadets and were not sworn officers, and because of this, advised them they did not warrant a salute. . I treated them with respect and referred to them as cadet(s) or gentlemen, as well as I would a senior NCO. Only commissioned officers warrant a salute.

Response by MAJ Stephan Hill made Dec 13 at 2018 2:22 PM

2018-12-13T14:22:26-05:00

I worked with ROTC cadets several times during my career, and never had this issue arise, however the chart in AR 600-20 does show them in between the Warrant Officer table and the Enlisted table. At least for those in the SROTC contingent. Doesn't show JROTC at all, most likely because they haven't signed up at that level.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Dec 14 at 2018 4:17 PM

2018-12-14T16:17:58-05:00

I’ve been out for a few years, so I don’t know what the specific regs state.

That being said, I instructed my troops to treat the cadets with the respect due an Officer, and, this is key, I counseled the Cadets that they where to conduct themselves in a manner WORTHY OF THAT RESPECT.

So, in given those two sets of mutually supporting instructions, if my 1SG where to inform me that a cadet was not returning the courtesies being extended, I would pull that cadet in for counseling. Likewise, if a troop was not extendending courtesies, I would direct that troop’s squad leader to counsel them.

It’s imporant for Cadet’s to understand that the courtesy given to officers is a recognition of the responsibilities of their position. And to earn those courtesies. Likewise, troops need to understand that Cadet is a training “rank”, not an operational position. And so for purposes of training, cadets are to be treated as officers, so that their training process of becoming knowledgeable and competent officers can be completed.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Dec 15 at 2018 1:36 AM

2018-12-15T01:36:13-05:00

Hell no... what's next? We gonna salute Eagle Scouts because they're the highest Boy Scouts??? A cadet is a student trying to become an officer, they have not earned any military rights or privileges yet.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 12:38 PM

2018-12-15T12:38:47-05:00

When I was an officer candidate we pretty much got treated like privates. I think the same should be applied to cadets. They aren’t commissioned yet, they haven’t been through a basic training course, they are trainees.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Dec 16 at 2018 12:53 PM

2018-12-16T12:53:23-05:00

In the Navy, Midshipmen have two summers with the Fleet, the first they are treated as junior sailors and the second they are treated as officers.
It is my understanding that Army Cadets do rank above WOs and Warrants rate a salute. IMHO, Midies and Cadets in the "learning to act like an officer" phase should be given the responsibility and respect of an Ensign / 2nd LT (which is still not that much). As a former E-6, the only difference between HM1 Davy that morning and ENS Davy that afternoon was how I was treated and what I was expected to do.

Response by SPC Andrew K. made Dec 16 at 2018 4:46 PM

2018-12-16T16:46:11-05:00

I had 2 different Butter bars for TCs and all if them said do not salute or say Sir/Ma’am to any cadet. It was an insult to actual officers because they were still civilians

Response by SGT Virgil D. Ronk Jr. made Dec 16 at 2018 5:39 PM

2018-12-16T17:39:53-05:00

we had a rotc cadet with show up during my basic in 81. he told us we were lower than shit. we were basic recruits. the 1sg reminded this rotc cadet that he wasn't anything but a want to be. it was funny back in 81.'

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Dec 16 at 2018 8:01 PM

2018-12-16T20:01:55-05:00

As I remember it, Cadets are treated as what amounts to 3rd Lieutenants. An ROTC or Military Academy Cadet is NOT a commissioned officer. But they are above E-5's in rank. As a former SGT, before I earned my commission, I sympathize with your perception. But yes, when you have a Cadet serving in your unit, you should salute them.

Response by MAJ David Parr made Dec 18 at 2018 7:40 PM

2018-12-18T19:40:31-05:00

Cadets are usually promoted to the rank of Sergeant and paid accordingly. You do not have to salute them. For them, Sergeant is an honorary rank... Within their corps, they may have even more honorary ranks, such as captain, or even colonel so that they can learn a chain of command....

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-12-19T10:17:17-05:00

Cadets are not commissioned officers and should not be treated as such. As a former Cadet Command CSM, cadets are students 90% of the time and in "Army" training the other 10%. They have not earned any status yet, just like an enlisted member will not get to wear a SSI or beret until a certain phase of training.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Dec 19 at 2018 4:18 PM

2018-12-19T16:18:14-05:00

A Cadet is not an officer. They are given the respect, afforded to all students. OCS; ROTC, etc., Jump School, Raanger, or any other. Until completing the requirements, you are not entitled to call youself as such.

Response by PO1 David Jordon made Dec 20 at 2018 11:20 AM

2018-12-20T11:20:14-05:00

i don't know, should first year med students be called "doctor"? should we use first year law students as our attorneys in court. would you allow a mechanic trainee to work on your airplane? and should we allow them to sign off inspections?
respect is earned,not just given. while i do see that people should exercise some respectful treatment to this person, they have not earned that salute,yet.when they are officially commissioned,then they have earned it. OCS answers this question with the silver dollar custom.a silver dollar is given by the new officer when they receive their first salute.and that is usually one right after the commissioning ceremony.and done by their company commander.so, i have to stay with tradition and say, not yet ,cadet.

Response by SGT Timothy Summers made Dec 20 at 2018 11:40 AM

2018-12-20T11:40:29-05:00

The experiences I have had with Cadets when I was stationed in Korea back in 94 with C. Co. 5/20 In., and again in 2012 at Fort Bliss, we were told to salute them even though they weren't commissioned. When I was a Pv1, I didn't know any better, once I already had plenty of time in service under my belt, I didn't agree with it, but I didn't have a choice. Just like I didn't like seeing cadets go through AASLT school at Fort Campbell, but they were allowed the opportunity. I don't agree with saluting cadets because they aren't commissioned yet, but, when you are given orders to do so, you don't really have a choice. Just a Roger that and move out smartly.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Dec 20 at 2018 8:02 PM

2018-12-20T20:02:21-05:00

They are not commissioned until graduation. I respect the fact that they achieved the right to get into an academy. Quite a feat, however, they are Cadets not Officers until graduation. Politeness is the order of the day, but, they are still in the learning process and Senior Enlisted deserve more respect than a college student. My thoughts only.

Response by PFC James Stewart made Dec 20 at 2018 8:15 PM

2018-12-20T20:15:35-05:00

Only salute in a active combat zone giving you some sh-t VN vet

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2018 1:26 PM

2018-12-21T13:26:04-05:00

The Cadet was out of line to demand the salute in one of the below responses. Now, as a former Army Officer, it is with respect that enlisted salute future commissioned officers. I did as a former enlisted soldier. In my experience, a properly trained cadet is expected to return a salute. Remember, you can always "on the spot correct" that cadet. Sometimes, a mind can wander at times. I've been corrected a couple times when walking past an officer and not saluting as an enlisted, it happens, not on purpose but it happens.

Response by SGT Raymond Turse made Dec 21 at 2018 8:51 PM

2018-12-21T20:51:59-05:00

No they have not earned it yet

Response by 1SG William Svoboda made Dec 22 at 2018 9:28 AM

2018-12-22T09:28:40-05:00

I spent time with cadets both The 1/30th INF, 3rd ID Germany and as the Chief of TNG and OPS Cadet Command. I always had this conversation with unit officers and NCO’ as part of the inbrief and of course the occasional “I can’t believe” that cadet out ranks me and they’ve not even graduated much less commissioned. The flip side is they are also required to salute everything that walks except NON COMS. Remember what my 1st CSM taught me: non commissioned officers ARE officers albeit non commissioned, they are officers.

Response by CW3 Chris Davis made Dec 22 at 2018 9:38 AM

2018-12-22T09:38:30-05:00

AR 600-20
2–9. Absence or disability of all officers of a unit
On death, disability, or absence of all officers of a unit normally commanded by an officer, the appropriate commander of the next higher command permanently assigns an officer to command, preferably of the branch to which the unit belongs. Pending assignment and arrival of the new commander, the senior WO, cadet, NCO, specialist, or private regularly assigned to the unit will exercise temporary command. Restrictions on assuming command in paragraphs
2–15 and 2–16 apply. Assumption of command will be as noted in paragraph 2–8.
Therefore if a Cadet can take command whether temporary or not they do deserve whether they have earned the right in anyone's eyes or not.

Response by CPO Donald Crisp made Dec 22 at 2018 10:55 AM

2018-12-22T10:55:37-05:00

If the cadet is this demanding now, just think of the weight she will through around when she actually pins on the butter bars. No solute is required. She hasn't been commissioned and much to her dismay, is not an officer.

Response by 2LT Ron Prater made Dec 22 at 2018 11:33 AM

2018-12-22T11:33:18-05:00

They should be treated as non-commissioned officers. They haven't earned that little butter bar yet.

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Dec 23 at 2018 3:29 PM

2018-12-23T15:29:16-05:00

I applaud the cadets training to become commissioned officers but do not condone them wanting to be saluted. The key word is "commissioned" - meaning one has earned and is granted officer status. Also, to salute an officer is showing respect to his commissioned rank. Cadets, be they ROTC, OCS, OTC or whatever else they may be called, are still Cadets, not commissioned officers. I know of no regulation that requires a Cadet to be saluted by lower ranks of Enlisted. I can see the necessity of saluting within the Cadet Corps itself, but outside of that, any salute should be thought of as a courtesy, not a requirement.

Response by SCPO Joseph Neuman made Dec 23 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-12-23T21:03:42-05:00

No, let them earn their place... just like all before!

Response by Sgt Ron Erwin made Dec 23 at 2018 9:53 PM

2018-12-23T21:53:40-05:00

Absolutely not. They are students and have not received their commission.

Response by PO2 Sam Hobbs made Dec 24 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-12-24T22:05:10-05:00

Not certain how it is treated in the Army, but, in the Navy, circa 1967, Midshipmen (the equivalent to Cadets) rated a salute from enlisted personnel.
.
It is my understanding, however, that salutes from instructors to cadets receiving instruction is not required, though it is customary on completion of Officer Candidate School for the enlisted instructors to salute their wards upon their graduation (presumably simultaneous with commissioning).

Response by COL Ed Mullin made Dec 25 at 2018 10:30 PM

2018-12-25T22:30:35-05:00

Cadets are not commissioned officers. She should get a silver dollar to give when she returns her first real salute.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2018 11:07 PM

2018-12-25T23:07:38-05:00

Yes. Any NCO will salute a cadet. Cadet out rank a CSM to. It maybe hard to believe a CSM saluting Cadet. Officers are Officers & NCO are NCO. Both have a respect and duties to follow.
COL (Ret) J

Response by PFC James Lee made Dec 26 at 2018 1:06 AM

2018-12-26T01:06:53-05:00

Uh NO... Cadets are cadets and as such hold no rank that is not honorary. They deserve no salute until commissioned.

Response by SPC Lee Sweningson made Dec 26 at 2018 8:27 AM

2018-12-26T08:27:54-05:00

Per AR 600-20 table 1-1 order of precedence in rank the Cadet ranks just below warrant officer and IS afforded the same courtesy and respect of all officers. In other words you DO salute them until and unless they are no longer in the program. I.E. wash out, resign or discharged for medical resons, etc.
While technically not yet "in the military" they do outrank all enlisted according to military regulations.

Response by SGT Ken Reeves made Dec 26 at 2018 3:10 PM

2018-12-26T15:10:55-05:00

Absolutely not. They should be treated with respect just as any soilder should, but until they have been commissioned they are not officers.

Response by 1st Lt Doug Caldwell made Dec 26 at 2018 9:55 PM

2018-12-26T21:55:48-05:00

From a former USAFA and AFROTC cadet: no. I wasn't saluted until l had completed my commision requirements and sworn in--except by CAP cadets, whom l learned are also required to salute officer candidates.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2018 9:29 AM

2018-12-27T09:29:54-05:00

I have a lot of experience dealing with cadets. The private did the right thing because he didnt know. I never salute cadets and never will. They have not commissioned yet so technically they're not officers. I treat them with respect as I would anyone. They're just playing Army until the commission. Heck some of them actually get kicked out of the program and never get commissioned at all. You unit normally finds out before you get them anyways. Someone should have briefed their Soldiers on this. I normally do!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2018 9:44 AM

2018-12-27T09:44:24-05:00

Cadet “what the #### is wrong with you?” You are not entitled to anything yet. This is a very disturbing trait of someone who is headed down the wrong path. You lead by example, with empathy, be selfless (not self serving), communicate with your NCOs, they will follow you anywhere IF you are a good leader. Be willing to learn from them and get their recommendations. I could go on for hours. Bottom line is you are wrong so fix it or you will learn this the hard way...

Response by Pvt Gorthaur Eternus made Dec 27 at 2018 6:32 PM

2018-12-27T18:32:38-05:00

Is telling the Cadet to GFY count as showing the proper authority? I only ask because that is EXACTLY what they would get from me.

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Dec 28 at 2018 2:55 AM

2018-12-28T02:55:02-05:00

I served with Charlie co 3rd Amtrac Bn, 1MarDiv. Every summer we got cadets from various ROTC programs in the western US. We called them Mr or Miss, as you would an ensign, but we never saluted them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2018 7:42 AM

2018-12-28T07:42:47-05:00

You wouldn't stand at ease for a Specialist would you? Same concept.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2018 8:32 AM

2018-12-28T08:32:45-05:00

Agreed, respect is a two way street. NCO, Enlisted, Officer or Cadet. But NO CADET is going to come into my Platoon and start barking orders and demanding anything. He/She May request whatever, and we as NCOs will work with that cadet. I do not expect my E5s to obey “orders” from a cadet who “over ruled” my lawful orders. Had 1 incident were a Cadet tried to bully a soft spoken, somewhat shy NCO to forego the Motorpool preparations for Platon and Company inventory layout and driver her to the PX as she had no POV or DL. This is a personal request and not an order, I told him and the Cadet. Nobody but the CDR or 1SG can override my lawful order in such a manner.
In the end AFTER the layout was completed, she went to the PX to have lunch and chill out a bit, and was ORDERED by the CDR to return before COB and to use the on post Bus System as it was free. Now as far as Salutes went. We did it out of courtesy and not because she too Demanded it. She too was informed by the CDR she is only a Cadet and that the actual E5s have more time in grade and more experience than she did or will ever have and that she must respect that and not to demand anything from any Enlisted or NCO.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2018 10:23 AM

2018-12-28T10:23:25-05:00

While I was in, I always saluted cadets if for no other reason that, to remind them that they'd soon be in a position of leadership where thay'd be expected to stand and deliver.

Response by SGT Alejandro Sarandrea made Dec 28 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-12-28T11:30:12-05:00

I would think that receiving respect is something a Commissioned Officer, as a cadet, should have been prepared for. Cadets can still be humbled, but learning how to accept respect with reverence or diligence isn't something that can be taught in a vacuum. It is my opinion, regardless of regulation, that we must give Cadets that respect so they can begin to understand what being an Officer means. SOME cadets may power trip, but that is a part of the reason they are not yet commissioned--its like when an E-4P first makes E-5. Someone standing at parade rest for you is a shock to the ego--as I imagine a salute can be; SOME new E-5s don't grow into that skin until an E-6 or E-7 respectfully reminds them that they have a lot of learning to do. Respect is earned, but it is also lawfully required under UCMJ. Cadets, like new sergeants, should be ready to receive that respect with tact and without having to demand it. The only way they can be ready for respect is if they get to practice receiving it--the same way all soldiers practice drill and ceremony.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2018 10:39 AM

2018-12-30T10:39:40-05:00

Absolutely not. Having just being a cadet, I cringe at all the stories I hear of other cadets demanding they be saluted. Cadets know absolutely nothing when it comes to the going out into the field or fleet. That's why they are there, to learn. I think a Jr. Cadet should be more like junior enlisted while a senior cadet receive the respect of an officer but not be saluted. That way they can see and learn from both sides of the spectrum.

Response by Sgt Ed Bowers made Dec 31 at 2018 2:13 AM

2018-12-31T02:13:53-05:00

A cadet any cadet if similar to a recruit in boot camp. While cadets are treated with much more "respect" than recruits they are still in training in order to become something. I would never salute a cadet unless they were former enlisted and had been awarded a Medal of Honor.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 11:26 AM

2018-12-31T11:26:48-05:00

Hell no! I do think that they should be introduced correctly and guided by a senior NCO. I feel this will set the president for the rest of his or her career. This will help them experience the special relationship in leadership that a NCO and an Officer have to obtain to be effective.

Response by SPC Terry Fuller made Dec 31 at 2018 3:17 PM

2018-12-31T15:17:55-05:00

I believe this answer depends on if the cadet is from the USMA or a college ROTC program. I was a cadet for two years at university of Michigan and it was explained to us that until our senior year after we had been assigned an MOS and actually been sworn in as an officer in the Army, we were the equivalent of basically nothing and were to show all the proper respect and courtesy to all members of the military E-5 and above.

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made Dec 31 at 2018 4:37 PM

2018-12-31T16:37:12-05:00

The answer is found in the question - or at least in questioned reasoning. Is "should be" required and is a "cadet" an officer. No. May happen but definitely not required. And if saluted, the cadet had best return the salute out of decent respect for the gesture - known or unknown.

Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Dec 31 at 2018 11:20 PM

2018-12-31T23:20:32-05:00

No and if they try to require it they should be bounced from what ever program they are in. Also cadet "enlisted" should not have to salute cadet "officers" as they do not hold a real commission.

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Jan 1 at 2019 3:04 PM

2019-01-01T15:04:19-05:00

We had a cadet in our National Guard unit,he was still in college and was not yet commission as an officer yet and no one took him for serious,our 1st Sgt said to call him sir,this maggot did not go to OCS yet and in my opinion does not deserve to be called sir!!!

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Jan 1 at 2019 3:37 PM

2019-01-01T15:37:59-05:00

The salute is a sign of recognition among those who are part of the profession of arms. If someone of ANY rank salutes me, custom requires I return the honor. Anything less is dishonorable

Response by MSG Brian Berger made Jan 1 at 2019 3:48 PM

2019-01-01T15:48:34-05:00

Sounds to me like the Cadet is trying to flex themselves. So if you are doing it as a sign of respect, in reality you may also be wrong. Yes a salute is respect, but if I am an NCO, do you salute me out of respect. No you don't.

Cadets are also addressed as Mr., Mrs., or Cadet.

Response by CW5 Jack Gaudet made Jan 1 at 2019 9:37 PM

2019-01-01T21:37:07-05:00

Kinda vague question, I would have to ask what type of cadet she was. But in the end they should not be saluted as a regular basis, if this is something from command then a different situation might come into play. Should they be treated as an officer, that is where the middle ground comes in. When I was a WO candidate, command wanted us treated as an officer for grooming purposes. But that was as far as it went. Basically it gave us more responsibilities not more authority

Response by SPC Larry Johnson made Jan 2 at 2019 8:16 AM

2019-01-02T08:16:29-05:00

IMHO, No they have not earned it yet.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:35 AM

2019-01-02T11:35:44-05:00

Yes, you should salute and insist that she return. When Cadets are in these positions, they are learning. This gets them used to being in the military and what the lifestyle is like. Sounds l Iike the dude just doesn't wanna salute the cadet.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jan 2 at 2019 12:39 PM

2019-01-02T12:39:08-05:00

No Commission, no salute. Show respect, but don’t feed their ego. They are students, not Officers.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jan 2 at 2019 12:44 PM

2019-01-02T12:44:43-05:00

My OCS class lost over half before graduation... two Candidates rode the chow wagon back from a 20 mile road march. On graduation day.... shiny brass and the black piping... the two that dropped out of the march were called out and handed orders as E-5’s. They were told if they couldn’t finish a road march, they couldn’t be trusted to lead.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Jan 2 at 2019 2:19 PM

2019-01-02T14:19:19-05:00

Seems to me that the word “cadet” is the only answer needed. A “cadet” is not (yet) an officer. End of story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:34 PM

2019-01-02T23:34:31-05:00

Having been a cadet after being enlisted,it is not required. When ever I was saluted I quickly returned it knowing that it was a sign of respect. Many of the non prior service cadets did truly understand that. The funniest thing was when I was sent to FT. Hood to serve with an active duty unit the battalion commander made then 5 of us cadets where a LT. bar on the flap of our chest pocket. Everyone looked at us like we were crazy, I felt completely retarded.

Response by Col Dick Rauschkolb made Jan 3 at 2019 11:23 AM

2019-01-03T11:23:03-05:00

It is required.

Response by CPT Jay Ward made Jan 3 at 2019 5:46 PM

2019-01-03T17:46:15-05:00

No, at best Cadet is equivalent to E5. Therefore only salutes the cadet should be getting is from other cadets with lower cadet rank.

Response by PFC Ted Esker made Jan 4 at 2019 1:34 PM

2019-01-04T13:34:19-05:00

Like a courtesy salute to a warrant officer?

Response by PFC Ted Esker made Jan 4 at 2019 1:34 PM

2019-01-04T13:34:55-05:00

Like acourtesy salute to a warrant officer?

Response by GySgt Keith Rininger made Jan 4 at 2019 5:35 PM

2019-01-04T17:35:52-05:00

A resounding NO. Until they graduate etc., they are not officers.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 4 at 2019 7:18 PM

2019-01-04T19:18:40-05:00

It depends on the training assignment.

Between freshman and sophomore academic year, we were assigned to billets normally assigned to Seaman Recruits to Seamen (E-1 to E-3) and treated appropriately.

Between sophomore and junior year, we were assigned to training programs that gave us very little exposure to Sailors and Marines, and when we did encounter them, they were usually SNCO's who were very professional, but did not treat us as officers. Nor did we expect them to.

Between junior and senior year, we shadowed O-1';s and O-2's and were treated as junior officers. I didn't expect a salute but happily returned one if offered.

Response by MAJ David Wallace made Jan 22 at 2019 5:35 AM

2019-01-22T05:35:04-05:00

They aren't officers yet. They are not even Soldiers. They are students at best and need to learn. The cadets are placed with units to see what a unit does, not to take charge and run it. Cadets are often living under the misconception that their four semesters of ROTC training have prepared them to be the next Petreaus or Patton. They aren't, and they won't be for a long time. True respect is earned and not freely given on demand. Dots should be watched closely to make sure they keep their egos in check and treat all Soldiers with respect. I wouldnt take a handful of dots for just one talented member of the E-4 Mafia with street creds. Dots with attitudes should be remedied with a "SCARED STRAIGHT" counseling session with a real company grade officer. Hopefully, that will put them in check without destroying them.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Jan 26 at 2019 11:16 PM

2019-01-26T23:16:34-05:00

Not required, but if they are on active duty and in uniform, I salute them, my job as PSG is to train them

Response by Lt Col Bill Fletcher made Feb 1 at 2019 8:06 AM

2019-02-01T08:06:11-05:00

As a Cadet at West Point we were on Active Duty and rated between Enlisted and Commissioned Ranks. It is similar to WOs. In the field we were literally 3rd Lts. Your Comapny Commander should have briefed you on the protocol. Her being demanding isn’t anymore correct than your being insubordinate, but she should have been treated with the proper respect her position requires.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Feb 2 at 2019 5:21 PM

2019-02-02T17:21:39-05:00

Granted this was a few centuries ago but I worked w/cadets in both the 82d & 25th as either an acting PSG or PSG. Never had one demand anything salute wise tho a prior service one did hint strongly he'd want to be treated as the PL in "every way".

My experiences were generally positive w/cadetidiots but I was given to understand I was pretty lucky in that.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2019 12:20 AM

2019-02-03T00:20:12-05:00

When I was an OCS student at Lackland AFB I would meet enlisted and most wouldn't know if they were supposed to salute me or not. I never made an issue of it. After all you are there to earn your Lt bars and then you will be saluted.

Response by CPT Paul Bass made Feb 6 at 2019 5:40 PM

2019-02-06T17:40:13-05:00

NO ! I am a ROTC graduate, Commissioned Officer. Within the ranks of the Cadet Corp respect for Cadet officers would be expected BUT not by any active duty military individual. My 1st official salute was when I was commissioned and the active duty 1st Sargent of the ROTC program was there waiting to greet this 2lt with a sharp salute and receive his silver dollar ( a tradition in ROTC programs at least I recall). NOW any ROTC cadet regardless their rank SHOULD render a salute to any Officer of any service in uniform.

Response by LTC John Bush made Feb 12 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-02-12T14:56:54-05:00

When I was in service a cadet was handled as a CWO, one salute in the morning. However you really need to stop regarding a salute as some form of punishment or domination. It is an honor reserved for very few. Civilians and prisoners are not authorized to salute, think about that!

Response by LTC John Wilson made Feb 16 at 2019 2:22 PM

2019-02-16T14:22:31-05:00

Cadets are not part of the Army and are not commissioned officers. So no you do not salute cadets until they earn the commission and the right.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Feb 19 at 2019 5:36 AM

2019-02-19T05:36:40-05:00

No.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Mar 15 at 2019 8:46 PM

2019-03-15T20:46:48-04:00

No they are cadets until they are commisioned

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Mar 15 at 2019 8:49 PM

2019-03-15T20:49:10-04:00

that's like calling a specialist a Non commission officer just because he's on a promotion List? Really.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Mar 24 at 2019 4:25 PM

2019-03-24T16:25:49-04:00

Something to think about: Every summer the MId-Shipmen have summer cruises. I remember one Midy was in Boats Div. They treated him rought. By the way he was in his 4th year. Well, when he qraduated, he came back to our ship, and toolk over Head of Boats Div. So it may hurt your pride, but be nice to MIDSHIPMEN and Cadets. They may come back to haunt you.Just a word to the wise.

Response by MAJ Alan Montgomery made Apr 7 at 2019 6:17 PM

2019-04-07T18:17:59-04:00

You get saluted you salute back acknowledging the respect shown. As for saluting cadets, OCS candidates, or West Point undergraduates as a matter of military discipline; NO. Now if that person was a CMH holder regardless of his or her, in my presence it would be a good idea to salute even if it's required by the regs.

Response by SSgt Edward Branham made Apr 9 at 2019 6:18 PM

2019-04-09T18:18:16-04:00

Back in the day, my training classified cadets within the same category as an E-5.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2019 9:13 PM

2019-04-11T21:13:00-04:00

I think it is good to start facing ambiguous situations early on. In Navy boot camp I usually always felt at the bottom of the heap, and had not begun to have enough respect for myself. Sooner or later you have to start differentiating enemy from civilians, and the consequences of not understanding, and the difficulty in not having proper guidance at all levels of command will live with you for the rest of your life.

Response by Cpl Joseph Heaphy made Apr 12 at 2019 8:05 AM

2019-04-12T08:05:14-04:00

Are you considered a Marine before you receive the EGA in Boot Camp? No. Cadets are training to become Officers. Until they get pinned, they rate no salutes. If you disagree, I am open to your argument. :)

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Apr 24 at 2019 1:04 PM

2019-04-24T13:04:14-04:00

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Apr 28 at 2019 4:02 PM

2019-04-28T16:02:05-04:00

Does it make you feel degraded somehow or make you feel less of a Soldier to salute a cadet? A cadet is an officer in training and your job as a Soldier and especially an NCO is to help train that person to be a good officer before they get commissioned. Saluting a cadet is just a very small part of a cadets training but it's something you can do.

Response by SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ] made Apr 28 at 2019 7:38 PM

2019-04-28T19:38:40-04:00

While assign to the 1802 special regiment combat arms [artillery detachment] October 06 1951 to 14 April 1953 . Mg Sgt Bonebreak NCOIC of the artillery section @ from him we were told to call all cadet by their name CADET last name . sign 40 yards

Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made May 14 at 2019 1:35 AM

2019-05-14T01:35:14-04:00

No absolutely no. It is clear you either are or not! Cadets, Midshipmen, Airmen are students. They are not officers.

Response by SFC Michael D. made May 22 at 2019 2:21 PM

2019-05-22T14:21:19-04:00

Need to get commissioned first. If they don't make it then you just wasted a perfectly good salute on a civilian.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made May 22 at 2019 10:16 PM

2019-05-22T22:16:45-04:00

If memory serves, at least for the navy a Cadet is the equivalent of an E5. We were expected to render honors (salute) when approaching a cadet and they are expected to return the salute. I would image that this would be the same for the other services.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jun 4 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-06-04T17:59:01-04:00

my commander back in the day, helped write that gay ass manual as his understudy was a few cadets going active duty. Whenever he saw a dot on the collar, he'd tell us to make sure and laugh at them. Nothing more special than an E5 in rank and should be called anything else but "cadet...(name)". Until they graduate and pin that 2Lt rank on, they're just a trainee doing what they need to do to pass. Nothing more or less

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Jun 8 at 2019 8:30 AM

2019-06-08T08:30:23-04:00

EXACTLY. The salute is a sign of respect. The Jr or Group Leader salutes the (Superior) Officer. Though not required, saluting in civies is a TOTALLY optional courtesy & not expected. These days location & security would factor into the discretion. There are also *No salute zones, like hospitals, where most Service persons see to be Officers. Worksites like Construction Sites for Engineers are also best designated No Salute Zones

Response by Dakota Jones made Jun 9 at 2019 10:08 AM

2019-06-09T10:08:46-04:00

As a JROTC cadet, I do not think that cadets should be recognized as a commissioned officer. However, I do believe that cadets should respect NCOs and commissioned officers. I also think that this subject should be brought up by the cadre in ROTC classes.

Response by 1stSgt Phil Mendoza made Jun 20 at 2019 2:41 PM

2019-06-20T14:41:40-04:00

NOT at all! These cadets are college students, NOTHING more. They have not done or earned any right to be saluted. Canoe u students are the worst, Annapolis. Had two of them with my Marine unit in 29 palms one summer and they actually tried to order some jr marines to salute them. I found out about it and advised them, the only thing they can order are eggs. They are college students and not a commissioned officer yet, and who knows...they might not even become one. I advised all my Marines not to disrespect them but they are not officers only civilian college students. Treat them as such. I put the blame on the officer instructors at the academy's for not reminding their students they are not commissioned officers and do not act like one. They are there to learn.

Response by SP6 Guy Slater made Jul 6 at 2019 9:41 PM

2019-07-06T21:41:54-04:00

In 1970, a "Third Lieutenant" was assigned to my unit. he was a West Point Cadet during the summer between his second and third year at the Academy. He told a group of NCO's that the 3rd LT program was to give the Cadet an opportunity to experience the "real" Army prior to making the decision of whether to stay at the Academy, or accept discharge and end his military obligation. This was at a time when, instead of an 8 year obligation upon enlistment, it was a 6 year obligation, and there was that pesky Draft thing still going on.

fell into our CoC after our 1LT and our 2LTs and ahead of the 1SG. I cannot remember (or find) the reference to this, but during the early 1800's the Navy had assigned a Midshipman (Naval Academy Cadet) to a war ship as a 3rd LT. All the officers were killed in an action, leaving the only the 3rd LT in charge. The ship was lost and a board of inquiry requested that the 3rd LT face courts martial for losing "his" ship. What the outcome of the courts martial was, I have never heard.

Did this actually happen? As I can find no reference to the incident, IDK. But MY 3rd LT was definitely on the manning board as an officer while he was assigned to the unit. As such, he would be accorded the rights and privileges of an officer, including being saluted.

Response by SSG James Shelton made Jul 10 at 2019 9:38 AM

2019-07-10T09:38:50-04:00

We had one assigned to my squad so they could get their field time in, well he started acting like he had been in for 15 years , He started giving orders and yelling at everyone even an army advisor who had been in for 15 years, he named him ROTCYBOY and it stuck for his whole cycle he was with us .

Response by MAJ Charles Cozzens made Jul 19 at 2019 11:55 PM

2019-07-19T23:55:36-04:00

You have a handle on the situation. This is not a big deal as the cadet has the most wonderful opportunity to learn and gain the respect and admiration of the backbone of the Army. If the cadet has half a brain ( and E-6 can help him find a brain if needed) he will know the mentoring/ training he is getting was earned and passed on by others soldiers who by blood, sweat and desire earned the right to wear US Army on their uniform. Both parties need to be brief on this relationship by a senior NCO before this encounter. Humility by the cadet is the first thing he needs to have here and right now he is just that a cadet that may not even be under contract yet. The private needs an answer and you are on it! . The cadet is in training and not a officer yet and needs to know how to return a salute if one is given. This does not need to a distraction to training

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2019 2:30 PM

2019-07-20T14:30:19-04:00

Absolutely not...they haven’t been commissioned yet.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jul 22 at 2019 5:45 PM

2019-07-22T17:45:22-04:00

If they're not wearing officer (whether commissioned or warrant) rank, they get addressed as "Cadet" and if they feel butthurt, TOUGH

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Aug 2 at 2019 11:01 PM

2019-08-02T23:01:12-04:00

When I was in I think we saluted them. The word was they were to be considered a third lieutenant. The one from West Point seemed like a great guy. But we had one the next year from Georgia who was not. In the field, he rode in the command vehicle with me, my butterbar, and my platoon sergeant. While the cadet dozed on the road, my platoon sergeant held a portable heater against his boot soles.

Response by SP6 Zz377zz . made Aug 15 at 2019 4:18 PM

2019-08-15T16:18:57-04:00

From what i remember a cadet holds the rank of E-5,when a few balked at cleaning the company area i just told them it'll build character.

Response by PO1 Edward Speary made Aug 26 at 2019 5:47 PM

2019-08-26T17:47:30-04:00

no,cadets do not get saluted

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Aug 27 at 2019 3:54 AM

2019-08-27T03:54:45-04:00

It depends.
Technically a cadet is not even in the military yet and holds no rank. There is no reg stating that a cadet or OCS candidate needs to receive salutes from anyone.

However, I have had cadets and OCS candidates shadow me and my PLT at my unit, and CO/1SG told us to treat them as though they were already commissioned. I think the intent in this case was to give the person a feel of what it might be like as a new LT.

Response by LTC Jack Regan made Sep 1 at 2019 10:38 PM

2019-09-01T22:38:28-04:00

Absolutely not - they haven't passed the test yet.

Response by SFC Michael W. made Sep 4 at 2019 4:01 PM

2019-09-04T16:01:09-04:00

When the Cadet EARN it I'll treat them as a Commissioned Officer...
...but until then, my answer is no.

Response by Capt Wayne Burden made Sep 8 at 2019 3:38 PM

2019-09-08T15:38:51-04:00

No, DO NOT salute cadets as they have not yet become commissioned officers, and will not if they don’t successfully complete their training. They have not yet earned the right and respect to be saluted. Think “An Officer and a Gentleman” movie. The drill instructor didn’t salute the cadets until AFTER they were commissioned. This was accurate in the movie. A cadet is an officer in training... nothing more or less. They can be speedily removed for a number of infractions. Never salute!

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Sep 8 at 2019 7:24 PM

2019-09-08T19:24:44-04:00

Absolutely. Just as soon as they receive their commissions. Not one moment before. That is like asking if Marine Corps recruits should be treated as an officer.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2019 10:58 PM

2019-09-08T22:58:24-04:00

Treat them with dignity and respect, like any Soldier should be treated.

Response by 1LT Mary Renzi made Sep 23 at 2019 11:04 PM

2019-09-23T23:04:17-04:00

Response by LTC Ken Bowers made Sep 27 at 2019 4:11 PM

2019-09-27T16:11:50-04:00

In My Battalion we had one or two SMPs (Cadets) in each company simultaneous to a shortage of commissioned officers. The Cadets would serve as the PL until they were commissioned or a lieutenant was assigned. As a Cadet in CTLT I received/rendered military courtesy of saluting. Cadets may be knuckleheads and have not earned their commission, but they are being trained for their first assignment. Those soldiers in that platoon/Company will have a significant impact on the future lieutenant. So train the cadet on how not to be a dick! I'll be the first to admit the are numerous ROTC cadets that have eared the aforementioned euphemism for their conduct. I have also seen a Non-comm straighten their-ass-out. If the Cadet does not respond well to training he is only isolating himself and will fail. Rendering military courtesy is important in companies and platoons, because it is good manners, and provides for shared or mutual respect. Returning a salute, and sounding off with the unit motto/slogan is just as important as rendering a salute!

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Oct 3 at 2019 8:02 AM

2019-10-03T08:02:01-04:00

It seems to me that a unit commander should make sure his unit (including any Cadets) gets briefed on how s/he expects (or the Army expects) Cadets to be treated. To leave one's people clueless is a clear leadership failure. To muddy the waters a little more (?), Cadets and Midshipmen rate entry to BOQs and Officers' Clubs and Messes worldwide and are treated as Officers by foreign militaries.

Response by Sgt Steve Williams made Oct 6 at 2019 8:33 PM

2019-10-06T20:33:56-04:00

Should people that are not commissioned officers be treated as commissioned officers?

Let me answer a question with a question. Should someone that is not the President be treated as the President?

Response by MSG David Miller made Oct 10 at 2019 9:46 PM

2019-10-10T21:46:56-04:00

By the way, Respect is a two way street

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Oct 19 at 2019 1:59 PM

2019-10-19T13:59:27-04:00

Cadets are Officer Trainees and respect not salute is required by regulation.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2019 12:04 AM

2019-11-07T00:04:30-05:00

Hello no! But they shouldn't be hounded on either.

Most cadets I meet are brilliant, capable, pathetic little snowflakes. They need lots of support and lots of training. Build em up, give them impossibly high standards, expect them to act like an officer and help them understand why it's important that they're ready to be one, right now, not tomorrow. Don't give em their dues, because they haven't done shit yet, but don't let them think there anything less than a soon to be a officer. They need to be ready to be treated like one, benefits and repercussions. So salute the damn kid and make sure he salutes back. properly.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Nov 8 at 2019 10:20 AM

2019-11-08T10:20:22-05:00

Cadets are Officer trainees and deserve the same type of respect as trainees are given. Nothing more and nothing less.

Response by CPL Norm Lowe made Nov 19 at 2019 9:25 PM

2019-11-19T21:25:05-05:00

no absolutely not! they have not earned it yet.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made Nov 30 at 2019 11:00 AM

2019-11-30T11:00:12-05:00

My feeling is that if you're saluted, you salute back ... it's just a way of saying "howdy".

Response by CPT Charley Watkins made Dec 10 at 2019 8:14 PM

2019-12-10T20:14:28-05:00

No.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Dec 10 at 2019 8:58 PM

2019-12-10T20:58:49-05:00

No. They are a e5

Response by SSG Rob Lawrence made Dec 13 at 2019 12:17 PM

2019-12-13T12:17:59-05:00

I was assigned to the USS Newport News CA 148 during it’s tour giving gunfire support in Vietnam 1972. One night I went on liberty and proceeded to down a few drinks in honor of being able to down a few drinks. This caused me to become a bit loopy. While approaching the ship’s gang plank I was challenged by my drinking partner to say, “Request permission to cross your patio, daddies,” to the Officer of the deck. Being loopy and never backing down from a dare, I looked forward to meeting the Officer of the Deck. I noticed this Officer of the Deck was in fact a Midshipmen from Annapolis. This did not deter me. I proceeded to salute him and did request permission to cross his patio. I am not sure how he answered me as just when I finished my request, I passed out. I have at times wondered what this young Ensign thought about the enlisted men of the US Navy after this incident. I never heard anymore about it so he obviously did not take it serious enough to refer me for charges.

Response by SFC Donald Mulder made Dec 19 at 2019 8:23 AM

2019-12-19T08:23:17-05:00

Former Drill Sergeant and retired CSM here. Old school (if you've ever ate a C-rat and found a smoke with a match with it, you'll get my point) rules apply.

Hell no. A cadet "is not" and officer and should "not" be saluted. They are cited as "cadet" when addressing. You earn the rank, earn the respect, lead by example & education. A cadet is a "student", not a seasoned professional. Even after earning the commission, it might take some time before that newly appointed officer receives any recognition from the seniors. Best advice to these young folks would be to surround yourself with success, take heed from us old-timers (who don't know a damn thing except keeping your pansy ass alive) while learning your chosen career. You might just get that "salute" after all! At some point.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Dec 22 at 2019 10:31 AM

2019-12-22T10:31:39-05:00

Midshipmen are rendered a salute as a sign of greeting and respect as with all ranks, but is not required. They do not receive their commissions until graduation. As a matter of history, the Midshipman garners his title based on his historical berthing aboard a Man-O'-War, midships. Their quarters were not in Officer's Berthing and they were under the care of the Boatswain who was a Warrant Officer elected from among the crew from who they received their seamanship training.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Dec 22 at 2019 12:03 PM

2019-12-22T12:03:04-05:00

Hell no. Cadet have no place in the chain of command.

Response by Lt Col Kevin Calhoun made Dec 23 at 2019 10:50 AM

2019-12-23T10:50:32-05:00

Short answer: According to AR 600-20, cadets "technically" outrank NCOs and should be saluted.

Response by SPC Julio L R. made Dec 26 at 2019 9:10 AM

2019-12-26T09:10:05-05:00

I think the salute is overrated.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2019 4:20 PM

2019-12-28T16:20:38-05:00

In the past I have to deal with cadets, some good most bad. Not in the case they were assholes bit misinformed about alot of different things. Cadets coming to the "line" are treated no different than a butter bar. Basically sit back shut up ask questions but you are hear to learn. Throwing the dot around doesn't command respect or admiration but discourage NCOs like myself from even wanting to deal with them during the weeks they are attached to us.

Response by Sgt Donald Daugherty made Dec 30 at 2019 8:22 AM

2019-12-30T08:22:14-05:00

Petty... gonna make a shitty officer as well. Reminds me of the time I whistled at a Scottish Colonel wearing a kilt. He was beside himself with anger. I told him to remain calm, as it was not his fault he had such sexy legs and knee caps... My boys lost it and fell out of the truck with laughter.
WANT MY RESPECT? EARN IT...

Response by SGT Ken Houston made Jan 1 at 2020 7:30 PM

2020-01-01T19:30:00-05:00

We had a cadet spend a few months with us while I was in Germany. We weren't required to salute her but we still treated her with proper respect. She was very respectful and smart enough to understand her job while with us was to learn everything she could. It probably didn't hurt at all that a couple of our really good LTs took her under their wings.

Response by CPT Ronald Metz made Jan 2 at 2020 12:51 AM

2020-01-02T00:51:54-05:00

I was enlisted for 10 years (Guard, Active, and Reserve) before I attended ROTC. I accepted and respected the honor given me by enlisted personnel, but I never forced them to comply. As an officer I respected my men and they always respected me and our mission to accomplish. Teamwork works better than a whip and bullhorn.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 4:53 PM

2020-01-06T16:53:26-05:00

Sure...when they are actually commissioned. I am prior service and received an ROTC commission. Show them the respect due them... and try to teach a cadet what they should know for future reference.
However, a 2LT does outrank a Sergeant Major...LOL

Response by SrA Ralph Marcello made Jan 9 at 2020 11:08 AM

2020-01-09T11:08:31-05:00

Should you Salute an officer like this? During a rocket attack in Vietnam in 1972, a new 2nd LT with his clipboard had our squadron stand in formation while the clerk handed out M-16 rifles and the LT wrote down the serial number of each rifle. Never mind that if a rocket landed near us, there would be many casualties. [They still make em today like this one, I am told] Many airman purchased personal weapons from the army guys on the base because of officers like this one ($25 for an M-16 or Colt 45, and $30 for a grease gun). Does this LT deserve to be saluted? You decide. from "Otto" 377th C.S.G., RVN, 1972-73.

Response by Cpl Warren DeMartini made Jan 17 at 2020 9:30 AM

2020-01-17T09:30:28-05:00

Hell no

Response by Col Thomas Sadlo made Jan 26 at 2020 12:22 AM

2020-01-26T00:22:19-05:00

As an Academy grad I can speak from personal experience...cadets do NOT receive salutes but are required to salute officers.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Jan 26 at 2020 9:30 PM

2020-01-26T21:30:14-05:00

USMA cadets are rendered all customs and courtesies at 2LT. BEFORE Graduation and commission

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Jan 26 at 2020 9:34 PM

2020-01-26T21:34:16-05:00

https://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/forms_pubs.aspx

forms_pubs.aspx

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Jan 30 at 2020 5:07 PM

2020-01-30T17:07:24-05:00

By regulation, no. It is not required for an enlisted member to salute a cadet. However, I've seen certain units extend the courtesy. Possibly because the units in which I've dealt with cadets had them coming from West Point and the commanders were graduates of the same academy.

Response by MAJ Lee Goehl made Feb 11 at 2020 9:57 AM

2020-02-11T09:57:39-05:00

Always remember be kind to those you pass on the way up because in life these are the same people you have to pass on your way back down. As a very young SSG I was selected for OCS in the early 1980's.(During the Reagan expansion) Had an acting 1SG (E7). When he found out I was going treated me like shit. A couple of yearS later as a 1LT Troop Commander, guess who my newly promoted 1SG was. Forgive absolutely, Forget NEVER! Moral of the story, Teach them well, treat them with respect. because Esp. in those AR and NG units it's a good possibility they will some day be holding your EER and your career in there hands. (we all know that's never happened) So make them a great soldier, and a reflection of your dedication. Be able to say with pride that you were a small part in their success.

Response by SMSgt Ronald B. made Feb 13 at 2020 2:53 AM

2020-02-13T02:53:38-05:00

Absolutely not. They have earned NOTHING at this point. NOTHING. It's bad enough officers are afforded an aristocratic level above all "enlisted" and refer to "enlisted" as if they were a group of infected lower level species... asinine....

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2020 12:25 PM

2020-02-17T12:25:14-05:00

No, they do not warrant a salute

Response by SPC Ray D. made Feb 24 at 2020 6:24 PM

2020-02-24T18:24:29-05:00

As “cadet candidates” at the US Military Academy (West Point) Preparatory School, then located in Ft. Belvoir, VA, we were frequently saluted. Typically by enlisted personnel who likely mistook our rank for officer bars. In any event, we were instructed early on to simply return the salute as a sign of respect and camaraderie.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 6:58 PM

2020-02-28T18:58:34-05:00

NOPE

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Mar 8 at 2020 7:24 PM

2020-03-08T19:24:39-04:00

It is NOT required, however, it does give way to haze them. For example, I had a cadiot ( combination of cadet and idiot ) in which I sent him looking for BA 100 Novembers. He asked what that was, I asked if he knew what BA 30 30’s were. He of course acknowledged he knew what they were. So I asked him what he thought BA 1100 Novembers were. He gave this knowing look and asked where he could find some. I told him at the BMO’s office. I sent him merrily along his way. Those that know the boredom and fullness of garrison duty seek alternative forms of amusement. Stroke the cadiot and send him on their way to embarrass them self’s like “blinker fluid....”

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Mar 11 at 2020 2:06 PM

2020-03-11T14:06:41-04:00

We should have expectations of cadets like we do the commissioned officers they seek to become but that does not mean they are one.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Mar 13 at 2020 2:40 PM

2020-03-13T14:40:27-04:00

We had a cadet from the Air Force Academy, for his two week summer session. He worked side by side with us in everything we did. He never demanded a salute but only asked that de call him by his last name. Our NCOIC added that we must call Cadet when addressing him. He once even asked me what he should do once he was commissioned. I told him to grab hold of his NCOs and ask them to teach him in every possible way how to be a better officer. I hope he served a long time, and at least made one star.

Response by PO1 Christine Wilds made Mar 18 at 2020 3:20 PM

2020-03-18T15:20:00-04:00

F**k no. Just because they’re going through more schooling doesn’t mean they’ve earned any rank

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Mar 18 at 2020 8:11 PM

2020-03-18T20:11:51-04:00

Interesting situation. Probably inclined to follow the regulation of seniority: Officer, W.O., cadet, NCO, troops. Treat the cadet with respect. Let them get some real world experience. The order says they are senior, but technically they are not commissioned officers yet. Ergo, I might be inclined to argue they do not automatically rate a salute. Probably something the unit command should address prior to the cadet arriving.

As a grunt platoon sergeant, and later a senior enlisted section leader (translate - POG), I had the honor and duty of training a few brand new LTs. It was different with each one. Some had read the book and knew everything (or so they thought). Others were more inclined to listen and learn. Prior to the fresh meat arriving, I always got my NCOs together, and then the entire platoon or section. Let them know it was our responsibility to turn him into the type of officer we wanted to be in combat with. Also had to throw in some kind of crazy threat of extreme discomfort if I caught any of them messing with the new LT. Usually worked out. Good times. Guess that's why we made the big bucks.

Response by SGT George Stephens made Mar 23 at 2020 6:24 AM

2020-03-23T06:24:20-04:00

In the words of my infantry first sergeant, cadets are basically school boys whose entire life is spent in a book. Until they are wearing a butter bar they can get the bird and still be considered common courtesy.

NCOs do not like cadets, Senior NCOs really hate cadets.

As i told my troops when i became a squad leader, Cadets are like boy scouts who work at Dick Sporting Goods. They think they know it all until you give them a real job

Response by PO2 Chris Romero made Apr 9 at 2020 6:35 PM

2020-04-09T18:35:55-04:00

I saluted the newbie officers who saluted. Not because they were fresh in training and some reg indicated it was proper. It was because I wanted to train them. Some newbies were more meek than others. The last thing I wanted in the field above me was a person with training in the right way, but too cautious or uncomfortable to use that training in the field. Or in my case, on the ship. I wanted a confident, decisive, comfortable person to finish their training. A salute from a junior is a part of that training. For those people I saw on a daily basis it also set up a good working rapport. Part of the that rapport being that not only would they know their salute and orders (many times supervised by a superior) would be carried out, but carried out with both respect and trust.

For the cadet / midshipman who was a dick about the salute for no good reason, well there was always a way to send a sarcastic response back in kind letting that person know you disrespected them personally, while still respecting the officer corps and chain of command on the whole. No real thing they could do or say about it without looking like a whiny fool. And really, I only ever ran across a few who were any less than deserving of my respectful salute.

Response by SPC Phillip Jackson made Apr 14 at 2020 1:08 PM

2020-04-14T13:08:14-04:00

I never had any interaction with any cadet when I was in. That being said, I can tel that some of the enlisted and officers that have harsh demeaning answers are the ones that ruin cadets learning to be leaders who them became bad officers. There are a lot of thoughtful knowledgeable answers. Those are the ones that matter. They taught cadets to be leaders and then receive respect. Not the other was around. There are some real asses that should never have been in any military service.

Response by 1SG Patricia Jones made Apr 25 at 2020 1:56 PM

2020-04-25T13:56:52-04:00

Those Cadets that are in the SMP- Simultaneous Membership Program and those that are contracted Cadets should be wearing the rank a Sergeant E-5 for your Guard or Reserve service. In addition, they receive the ROTC Advanced Course allowance as well. They serve as an officer trainee in a Guard or Reserve unit and perform duties commensurate with the grade of second lieutenant. Once they graduate and receive your commission, they may continue your military service with your Reserve or National Guard unit or go on active duty. The ROTC Contract that is agreed upon will determine a cadet status. They are considered Non-Deployable during your time as an SMP Cadet! Must work in a platoon Leader position while in the unit.

Response by SPC Dave Kelsey made Apr 27 at 2020 12:33 PM

2020-04-27T12:33:15-04:00

When I was in basic training we had both West Point and ROTC cadets assigned to our company for a couple of weeks. We were required to regard them as officer with all courtesies. ROTC cadets who are assigned to reserve and national guard unit are, likewise treated as officers. You may not like it, but it is regulation.

Response by GySgt Gary Cordeiro made May 4 at 2020 1:18 AM

2020-05-04T01:18:04-04:00

They are nothing but pukes, not even close to being a maggot. I have done a tour at Army OCS and as a Drill Sgt. For the 91st Div “ Let ‘er buck”. They are in Lala land. Give them space until they figure it out.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made May 4 at 2020 4:14 AM

2020-05-04T04:14:54-04:00

No, the Cadets are NOT yet officers or even Warrant Officers and not entitled to a salute. The only exception would be if they are cadet Officers and then ONLY by Cadets of a lower rank than themselves. I had been a Cadet and was well aware of that although Cadets do need to salute any Commissioned or Warrant officers of any branch of the US Armed Forces, active duty, Guard or reserve. Also like members of the armed forces also salute Officers and Warrant Officers of nations friendly to or allied with the United States. I have taught classes on military customs and Courtesy and those are some of the rules that are laid out for all of us to follow. If You have any further questions on that subject I'd be happy to answer them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 4:15 PM

2020-05-15T16:15:56-04:00

No they are not Officers until they put on that Bar. They may not earn that butter bar.

Response by CDR William Kempner made May 23 at 2020 1:30 PM

2020-05-23T13:30:55-04:00

Correct. Cadets don't have to be saluted. It is a MILITARY GREETING-an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. Nice thing from the EM if they do it, but not required. Especially the more junior ones. Some of the senior ones-walking around with jump wings, Air Assault wings-they are on there way, and a salute from the EM is a COMPLIMENT!!

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made May 24 at 2020 10:47 AM

2020-05-24T10:47:26-04:00

NO! Cadets are not Commissioned.

Response by SSgt Dilmos Johnston made Jun 8 at 2020 7:09 AM

2020-06-08T07:09:46-04:00

No they should not be saluted just as an officer that is out of the military (unless you just want to show your respect for them). If you want to show respect it shouldn't matter if they have ever been in the military or not.

Response by SSG James Dennis made Jun 23 at 2020 7:16 PM

2020-06-23T19:16:13-04:00

We had 2 "Drill Cadets" the summer of my 2nd year on the trail. Both came to us with the desire to learn (one was the son of a Colonel or flag officer-don't remember exactly). The first week or so they were more "watch and learn" than participating in any training we were conducting. As we marched out of the CTA toward the BRM ranges, I asked Cadet Mock if he wanted to call cadence. This guy had been born and raised in the Army, and quickly picked up the rhythm with his cadence. After that day we incorporated both cadets into every aspect of training (even the gas chamber-lol). Not once did either cadet say anything about saluting the entire time they were with our company. On the day of their departure, I pulled Cadet Mock aside and asked him what he had learned from his summer training cycle. He stated he had learned that the NCO is responsible for training the unit, while the officer manages the unit. As a cadet, he learned to appreciate the role of the NCO. I promptly saluted him, which he smartly returned. I felt we had provided him with an excellent opportunity to understand each role, the NCOs and the officers, which hopefully he carried into his career as a commissioned officer.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Jun 23 at 2020 8:16 PM

2020-06-23T20:16:36-04:00

Cadets should be mentored by the E6 and E7. I personally dont let 01 think they are in charge and only a squared away 02 who is ready to move on to a company XO position get my deference. Understand, i will take the LT aside to explain why i disagree and if the LT insists on a ill advised course of action... I will acquiesce and watch the circus unfold

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jun 28 at 2020 10:40 PM

2020-06-28T22:40:15-04:00

I worked with several West Pointers who were great officers. I think a cadet deserves a modicum of respect considering their school environment.
They are not Commisioned Officers, yet! I treated every 2nd or 3rd year cadet I had training with me as a Jr NCO and gave guidance the way I would give a new team leader.
I would not treat them as officers until that butter bar is on there and I never dealt with them feeling disrespected or being disrespectful.

Response by SP5 Paul Renard made Jul 2 at 2020 1:46 PM

2020-07-02T13:46:55-04:00

Do Enlisted soldiers stationed at the USMA West Point salute Cadets? Do they salute the Commissioned officers on that Post?

Response by MSgt Jeff Brown made Jul 19 at 2020 8:05 PM

2020-07-19T20:05:13-04:00

I had very few instances of meeting cadets when I was on active duty in the Air Force. However, you should treat them with the normal respect you would treat anyone in uniform, in fact, any human being. You need to consult your applicable service regs to see what the requirements are as far as customs and military courtesies. And, I might add, the cadets need to be schooled by their service academies as to what they should expect as far as treatment from enlisted personnel and vice versa. They should be reminded NOT to come across as a third-rate General Patton.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 26 at 2020 12:37 PM

2020-07-26T12:37:48-04:00

NO!!!

Response by PO2 Greg Donahoe made Aug 5 at 2020 1:45 PM

2020-08-05T13:45:12-04:00

Funny that they are subordinate to Warrant Officers though.

Response by 1SG J. Shannon Lewis made Aug 13 at 2020 9:26 PM

2020-08-13T21:26:22-04:00

Nope. Aren't even in the army yet.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2020 2:32 PM

2020-08-29T14:32:13-04:00

Explain the term “Treated”. Just one question: are they COMMISIONED?? That might give you the answer.

Response by MSgt Craig Gauger made Aug 29 at 2020 10:33 PM

2020-08-29T22:33:30-04:00

I thought cadets were considered to be an E-5 rating, until their eventual commission, though I've been retired awhile, I may not be up on the current situation.

Response by MAJ Jimmy M. made Sep 2 at 2020 5:07 PM

2020-09-02T17:07:02-04:00

There is a reason that cadets are called cadidiots when they are thrust upon a unit for a two week holiday that the Soldiers in the unit did not ask for. When I went to OCS, we were barely considered Soldiers; Much less commissioned officers. Graduates of WOC school would tell similar stories. I knoew a warrant officer that went to OCS. Was he saluted? Nope. He was a candidate; No longer a warrant officer. The only "benefit" at OCS is that the senior class is saluted by students in the lower class their last four weeks assuming they are allowed to paint their strip white. We were "third lieutenants".

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Sep 3 at 2020 4:26 PM

2020-09-03T16:26:36-04:00

Yes. The simple answer is if you look at them as civilians they still outrank you.

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Sep 19 at 2020 2:00 PM

2020-09-19T14:00:34-04:00

Although there are some who say No, I would say YES. According to AR 600-20, Section 2, a cadet does technically outrank an NCO. The key word is "technically".
Also, one should keep in mind that a cadet is a future or prospective officer or, at the very least, an officer-in-the-making. Most of the cadets with whom I had contact during my service had at least three years of study under their belt. Most would be commissioned 2LTs w/in a year afterward. That said, I always addressed them with "sir" and "ma'm" along with saluting. The times (and there were a few) that I corrected them was always with respect. Most, I believe, understood the message.
On the other hand, a cadet who comes across as being arrogant can well expect to be put in his or her place. What can one expect from someone who thinks their poop doesn't stink? But again, it has to be done with respect.

Response by SSG Dennis R. made Sep 19 at 2020 7:08 PM

2020-09-19T19:08:33-04:00

Cadet is just another term for a college student going thru a glorified OCS. No bars or stars? "Hi kid, how ya doin' today?" is about what they'd get from me. A student from Hudson High was seldom seen in a mental health clinic. About as rare as chicken lips.

Response by MSgt Robert Branscome made Oct 5 at 2020 3:33 PM

2020-10-05T15:33:54-04:00

Well should boot camp privets be treated as an enlisted person before they have completed boot camp??

Response by CPT Jerry Lucas made Oct 29 at 2020 4:30 AM

2020-10-29T04:30:56-04:00

AR 600-25, effective 10 September 2019, Chapter 2-1, gives guidance on who to salute and when to salute. Cadets are not on any of the lists of who to salute.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN20654_R600_25_Admin_FINAL.pdf

AR 600-20 effective 24 July 2020, (Table1-1) lists in order the Army rank structure. Academy and ROTC cadets are to be addressed as "Cadet" and OCS candidates are to be addressed as "Candidate." Their order in the rank structure fall between W-1 and E-9.
There is no mention of "3rd Lieutenants" or other such crap, so stop it.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30132-AR_600-20-001-WEB-2.pdf

ARN20654_R600_25_Admin_FINAL.pdf

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Response by Cpl Ernest Thomas made Nov 10 at 2020 8:38 PM

2020-11-10T20:38:36-05:00

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Nov 15 at 2020 10:45 PM

2020-11-15T22:45:45-05:00

I see no problem saluting a cadet. I understand it is not required. I suppose we could say - "close enough for govt work" My goodness it is not the end of the world - Now if a cadet demands to be saluted - that is another story. He needs to learn a lesson about messing with senior NCO's.

Response by PFC Donnie Harold Harris made Dec 24 at 2020 9:25 AM

2020-12-24T09:25:10-05:00

I was at a training company @ fort Benning. We had hundreds of West Pointers and OCS people come through. I never saluted a single one. Mater of fact It was just the opposite. Did anyone hear of a 3rd LT?

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Dec 27 at 2020 9:14 PM

2020-12-27T21:14:44-05:00

FOR THE 300TH TIME. NO...NO...NO...NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A Cadet is a "glorified recruit". Today, they are dumber than dirt; tomorrow they are a "genius" with a "butter bar" on their collar. Once, they become a "genius" you MUST respect them.

Response by Maj Larry White made Dec 28 at 2020 12:21 PM

2020-12-28T12:21:30-05:00

A cadet should return a salute rendered but cannot insist upon it.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Dec 28 at 2020 4:32 PM

2020-12-28T16:32:52-05:00

During my SMP Simultaneous Membership Program) time with the Army Reserves in Oklahoma City, the officers and NCO's I worked with called me "candidate", their way of recognizing that I was working toward a commission, I suppose. My pay grade as a cadet was E5. Nothing in the SMP contract entitles a cadet to the usual honors or privileges accorded to officers. You are essentially an enlisted member of the unit, and you are there to learn and serve.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 28 at 2020 6:01 PM

2020-12-28T18:01:40-05:00

I am too lazy. Do the regs say enlisted salute cadets? How to treat cadets has some depth that is not explored. I am quite ok with treating them with dignity and respect, but they get no say in the operations until they prove to me they are worthy of that.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Feb 8 at 2021 2:46 PM

2021-02-08T14:46:53-05:00

Back in the late 80’s when I was a T.I. For the USAF at Lackland AFB, TX, I had an AF Academy, 2nd or 3rd year cadet assigned to my BMTS flight. He was very curious to see the “how” we trained recruits into basic airmen. He came in at six or whatever time the flight was to wake up and stayed until mail call. I remember his nickname was “shorty”, he was Japanese American, his father a retired colonel/doctor USAF. He wondered why the trainees saluted me, an NCO, in the flight office. I explained it was to give them practice, so I could evaluate the individual. I had several of my trainees ask if they should salute him and I said no, he was not yet commissioned. “Shorty” never requested that anyone salute him.

Response by CPO Michael Sordelet made Feb 14 at 2021 9:19 AM

2021-02-14T09:19:34-05:00

They have not yet been commissioned so they are not Officers yet and cannot give direct orders,however as a cadet or a midshipman they are to be saluted, and shown respect for their position, and this is the way it has been in the Navy for centuries.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Feb 28 at 2021 8:45 PM

2021-02-28T20:45:05-05:00

While I never had to deal with cadets, it was my understanding they fell between NCOs and Warrants, techically. That may be an error of memory, at this point, however, as it was back in '69. I do know even as an ensign I was the higher rank, even if they were cadet corps officers.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Mar 1 at 2021 1:59 PM

2021-03-01T13:59:26-05:00

I was taught they should be treated as 3rd Lieutenants and get a salute. That said, the officer corps should have a responsibility to teach the cadets how to behave and remind them they are only visitors and give them no authority to issue orders to lower enlisted and NCOs.

Response by CAPT Ken McManaman made Mar 10 at 2021 12:25 AM

2021-03-10T00:25:48-05:00

Under service Regs, Cadets are higher than enlisted, lower than warrants in terms of salutes.

Response by Capt Henry Heater made Mar 11 at 2021 10:48 AM

2021-03-11T10:48:35-05:00

I graduated from the Air Force Academy in 73. As a cadet, I was not a commissioned officer, and no one was required to salute me. To the contrary, just to be safe we generally saluted anything in uniform. A “cadet” is on active duty; however, your active duty time as a cadet does not count toward retirement. It does qualify you for the longevity ribbon. As a cadet you received half the base pay of a second lieutenant. It was placed in a trust account, and out of that account you received a small monthly cash allowance. The trust account was also used to pay for your uniforms and textbooks. When you graduated you received whatever balance remains in the trust account. You have no rank (other than cadet rank within the cadet wing) in the real Air Force. It is a sort of limbo status. I remember spending a summer leave period in Alaska. While in Fairbanks, my buddy and I stayed in the visiting enlisted quarters at Fort Wainwright for 50 cents a night. We could have stayed in the VOQ for two dollars a night. Sad to read about some cadets who engaged in arrogant behavior.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 9:57 PM

2021-03-16T21:57:08-04:00

We have a couple of cadets in our MP Co. I always just call them sir or ma’am. These are the future leaders of our military and we, at least as NCOs, need to leave a good and professional impression on them.

Response by LT John McCormick made Mar 22 at 2021 5:38 PM

2021-03-22T17:38:32-04:00

Not only no but fuck no... LT, USN retired

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Mar 22 at 2021 7:18 PM

2021-03-22T19:18:16-04:00

No, cadets don't get salutes. Their pay grade is E5. They are there to learn. If I had insisted on salutes in my unit as an SMP cadet, I'd have been gone in a shot.

Response by C/SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 6:46 AM

2021-03-26T06:46:38-04:00

My son trained cadets in a university in Colorado while in the service. They have a different form of rank on them. This distinguishes them from a normal commissioned officer. My son was an E-4 and was told by his commander that he did not have to sulute them.

Response by C/SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 7:06 AM

2021-03-26T07:06:39-04:00

If the cadet could get a sulute, then I feel left out because I was a 1st Lt. and squadren commander and wore the US Air Force uniform with commossion rank while I belonged to the Civil Air Patrole. My son said right out that he would not sulute me and he is right though. I got my TS card punched by my chaplin.

Response by SFC Donald Souza made Apr 3 at 2021 2:19 PM

2021-04-03T14:19:29-04:00

Response by Capt Mark Symanowicz made Apr 10 at 2021 2:42 PM

2021-04-10T14:42:54-04:00

During the summer of '75, I was an AFROTC cadet going through field training at Plattsburgh AFB. I clearly recall walking down a sidewalk and passing an oncoming airman who rendered a salute. It was pretty close on (initiated about 10' away) and unexpected to the point that I was unable to return it in time.
I can still remember the dirty look he gave me as he passed.
I learned from that experience. In retrospect, I should have returned the salute, simply out of common courtesy, and determined the "rightness and wrongness" later.
I also puzzled out that the salute was possibly initiated on the basis of the silver trim on our garrison caps, typically worn by officers, as differentiated from the black trim on enlisteds' caps.
Later, as a Cadet LtCol, I'd only expect salutes from lower-ranking cadets, but realizing that our rank insignia could be confusing, made it a point to be aware of and prepared to return a salute whenever rendered.
As a "by-the-way," and to give an idea of where AFROTC Cadets stood in the pecking order, on graduation day, upon commissioning, I was awarded an Honorable Discharge from the Air Force Reserve with the rank of Airman Basic (E-1)

Response by LTC Ken Pruitt made Apr 16 at 2021 12:44 PM

2021-04-16T12:44:31-04:00

PS - An ROTC cadet has no military rank, unless also serving in the Reserves or National Guard. Still the same answer. A cadet does not deserve a salute until they have earned a commission.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Apr 17 at 2021 4:28 PM

2021-04-17T16:28:05-04:00

We had numerous cadets that worked with our unit, 27th Abn ENG, When I was an NCO, I told them we will show you all courtesy of a 2nd LT as long as you show us all courtesy of soldiers that have Time in service. I instructed my soldiers to do exactly that, not that it was regulation but it was common courtesy. Courtesy is appropriate everywhere.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Apr 19 at 2021 3:49 AM

2021-04-19T03:49:13-04:00

Thank you SSG Private RallyPoint Member for posting an interesting question a few years ago.
I am a prior-enlisted graduate of the USMA class of 1980.
USMA cadets [and I expect USNA and USAFA cadets] per AR 600-20 are subordinate to Warrant Officer 1, higher than ROTC cadets and higher than all NCO's in rank.

Image:
1. AR 600-20 [July 24, 2020] Table 1-1 Grades Army O-8 - E-7
2. AR 600-20 [July 24, 2020 ] Table 1-2 Comparable grades among the service
FYI Ken Kraetzer SFC William Farrell SGM Mikel Dawson LTC John Shaw COL Mikel J. Burroughs MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D. LTC Private RallyPoint Member LTC Kenneth Konstanzer SFC Chuck Martinez SSG Franklin Briant SSG Michael Noll SMSgt Tom Burns SSG Bill McCoy SP5 Gary Nelson SGT Herbert Bollum

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Apr 26 at 2021 12:16 AM

2021-04-26T00:16:08-04:00

Cadets are not commisioned. So they do not deserve nor have earned that honor. The cadet was correct in NOT returning the salute. If a cadet ever expects a salute, a superior officer should immediately address the cadet.

Response by CPL Sally Wittbrod made Apr 30 at 2021 3:33 PM

2021-04-30T15:33:29-04:00

My brother was either SSG or of SFC prior to 1990. He said, I have to salute you because you were a Cadet but I don't have to obey you because you weren't an officer. He also said, "DON'T CALL ME SIR."

Response by SrA Daniel Hamilton made May 3 at 2021 1:12 PM

2021-05-03T13:12:27-04:00

No. they have not been commissioned.
While stationed at FE Warren a group was up from the AF Academy and I had just finished working a swing and Mid shift and was in the chow hall getting chow before going back to my dorm. As i was in line this group of cadets came into the chow hall and stated to push their way past me. I asked a couple what they were thinking and one popped off and told me to lock it up and realized who i was addressing. Well their instructor just so happened to be walking in when this cadet told me to lock it up. He lost his shit. he got in the cadets face and told him I had more time in my boots than he did pleasuring himself and ordered them all to hit the deck. I stood there and he told me to walk over them. I looked at this Msgt and asked him what did he mean he said walk on their backs so they realize their place. I respectfully declined and walked around got my chow and went in and sat down. Halfway through my meal 2 of the cadets came over and asked if i needed anything else. I told them no i was good. they insisted and left then came back with some more food and some OJ. and then apologized to me for the actions of the guy. they asked if they could join me and then started asking me questions about what is was like being in the Air Force and asking questions about my career field. I really enjoyed talking with these cadets and then wished them well. even the one who thought he was the man.

Response by CPO Larry Cowden made May 9 at 2021 1:31 AM

2021-05-09T01:31:30-04:00

We had Naval Academy students onboard my submarine one time. We were not required to salute them as they were not officially commissioned yet. We did extend them the courtesy of military respect though. I photographed many of them on the periscope for a souvenir of their time on board!

Response by MSgt Michael Webster made May 10 at 2021 2:09 AM

2021-05-10T02:09:36-04:00

My daughter has completed her 2nd year of ROTC and I do not believe she would want salutes. She will be going to the USACIL and is paid as an E5. This last weekend she attended a Commissioning ceremony for the seniors. Her ROTC cadre that she interacted with had a great relation with her and her classmates. No ego problems there. She knows that she is there to observe and learn what a good officer does. A salute can be given as a matter of respect and can be rendered when in doubt.

Response by Lt Col Steve Bonning made May 15 at 2021 5:56 PM

2021-05-15T17:56:12-04:00

The question concerned saluting, not just rank position. Yes, outrank NCOs but neither WOs nor Commissioned. Do the regs state the same and address salutes specifically? Personal experiences means nothing. If cadets are neither, seems like salutes are not required.

Response by SP5 Paul Renard made May 16 at 2021 1:18 PM

2021-05-16T13:18:45-04:00

...just as a 2LT outranks a CSM.

Response by SGT Mike Murphy made May 17 at 2021 4:06 PM

2021-05-17T16:06:00-04:00

I was only in the Army for 6 years. I was discharged as a SGT E-5. I saw cadets occasionally during my service time and always saluted them. They always returned the salute. I always referred to them as sir (never saw a female cadet). I knew the whole time that they weren’t entitled to the salutes, but I thought what the heck. No skin off my nose. I always felt, and still do, that I was just showing them respect and giving them the opportunity to show me the same thing.

Response by SPC Kenneth James made May 26 at 2021 9:51 PM

2021-05-26T21:51:25-04:00

We actually went to west point to train the cadets in the wonderful skills of field artillery and I don't ever remember us saluting any of them and any of the soldiers on here that are and or were in field artillery will tell you that the number one man in the trails of the wishbone doesn't kneel when you are firing a mission and we had a future officer of the United States Army kneel in the wishbone my section Chief didn't want to call a check fire of course we laughed like hell wonder what ever happened to him so until I see them actually with the butter bars I will respect them because of making it to west point but salute probably not

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jun 6 at 2021 4:05 PM

2021-06-06T16:05:37-04:00

No, they should be treated as cadets.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Jun 16 at 2021 8:22 PM

2021-06-16T20:22:00-04:00

I had an Air Force academy cadet assigned to for me for an entire training cycle. I told my flight that they would render all military courtesies, except a salute. When I was first introduced to my cadet, I told him that the flight would treat him with all military courtesy except the salute. He said he didn’t expect the flight to salute him, as he was not yet commissioned. When his time with the flight was up, one thing he said to, me was he couldn’t believe I trained the recruits in only six weeks. He elaborated that it takes the AF academy four years to produce an officer. I smiled.

Response by 2d Lt Darryl Hadfield made Jun 17 at 2021 5:26 PM

2021-06-17T17:26:50-04:00

I always get a laugh out of these. Granted, my service was in the RCAF, not the US armed services, but I understand that the principle is the same: You are REQUIRED to respect the position, not the person - but you may, if you wish, optionally show your respects to the person.

It was hilarious when I'd get saluted, but other cadets nearby wouldn't - and would then try to claim that "You saluted him, you have to salute me!" I once heard someone reply, "I didn't salute him because he's an officer, I saluted him because I respect him. You're just a pompous little prick when you demand a salute, which he never does."

Response by SGT Mike Churchill made Jun 30 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-06-30T21:07:32-04:00

Technically, no. However when they are shadowing a PL for their summer training most CO's will brief you to treat them as you would your LT which means rendering a salute and greeting of the day. On that note I would never treat a cadet as badly as we treated some of our LT's

Response by CDR Andrew Peck made Jul 15 at 2021 3:09 PM

2021-07-15T15:09:03-04:00

Let's hope that the cadet was confused by the salute, and not practicing to be a commissioned jerk. I was commissioned through NROTC in 1972. Back then, a Midshipman was ranked between W-2 and W-3. Unless the Army salutes Warrant Officers, a salute wasn't required. Having said that, I considered the salute to be a military courtesy -- acknowledging a fellow professional. Someone needs to initiate the ceremony, and it's assigned to the junior person. If a salute wasn't appropriate, I would typically nod my head, and offer a greeting -- for the same reason. I remember a comment by my late father, who was a mechanic/turret gunner in a Navy torpedo bomber in WW2. He was taught: "If it moves, salute it; if it don't move, move it; if it's too big to move, paint it."

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 7:08 PM

2021-07-21T19:08:34-04:00

Is malicious compliance still a thing? Salute the cadet with a greeting of "Sniper check mister (or miss)" on a regular basis. Maybe that'll help get the stick out of their butt

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jul 25 at 2021 3:04 PM

2021-07-25T15:04:06-04:00

YES. If they are part of an SMP program, they are defacto frocked officers.

Jesus the stupidity in some of these comments drive me fucking nuts.

Finally, I do not see why it would be such a big deal anyway, how doe sit hurt YOU to be respectful of someone?

I bet everyone one of you that said no, have a fucking conniption seeing words like FUCK on these forums.

Response by SP5 Jennifer Jones made Aug 6 at 2021 1:37 PM

2021-08-06T13:37:08-04:00

I work with a girl that when Veteran's Day approaches or any moment that she gets to flaunt herself, tells everyone that age is a Veteran. She was accepted to West Point, which is honestly quite impressive. However, she was "only there for a short time." She said it was too much for her mentally. In all fairness father passed away while she was in high school. She refuses to divulge more. She skirts around every question. She wasn't stationed anywhere and seens to have not even received any credits while at West Point. Yet, she says she was an officer in the military. It makes me livid. I was a veterinary technician for 5 years. I volinteered to go everywhere. I loved it. I meet women like this all to often. My neighbor has a similar story and that girl got 20 k from her 3 month stint in the military. She didn't even finish AIT. I don't get a dime. I don't get it. Both are wimps in my opinion. Both flaunt around and brag about their Veteran status.

Response by LTC Ken Bowers made Aug 6 at 2021 2:43 PM

2021-08-06T14:43:01-04:00

They should be treated as Cadets that they are. As the Commander an NCARNG Engineer Battalion I was fortunate to have several ROTC cadets who were willing to accept the responsibility of leading a Sapper platoon or equipment platoon. These cats earned the respect of their soldiers by leading by example and working hard. The Cadets had the support of the chain of command so they knew there was a lot expected of them. Two of the cadets lead platoons at the NTC performing exceptionally well. Remember these cats earn E-5 pay as a drilling ROTC Cadet so if they're leading by example and working hard at learning their trade and leading troops tell your soldiers it wouldn't hurt to salute a Cadet!
"None Shall Pass"

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Aug 26 at 2021 11:50 AM

2021-08-26T11:50:59-04:00

After they have done Cadet Training then they should be treated as a Commissioned Officer. Again, The Military is a place to Earn everything Not a given. In my opinion

Response by LTC Mike Downes made Aug 27 at 2021 4:49 AM

2021-08-27T04:49:08-04:00

Long time ago when I was a cadet, I did a CTLT as an asst. drill. Best experience I had at the time. Whenever a drill sergeant passed by they would see my shiny cadet rank and automatically throw up a salute. I told them they did not have to salute me due to the position I was in. Looking back, I should have let the saluting continue, return the same, and sound off w/ a loud and thunderous Hoohah!
Mike Downes
LTC (Ret.)

Response by SGT Kelly Murphy made Sep 3 at 2021 9:08 AM

2021-09-03T09:08:59-04:00

My Brother was a Cadet at WestPoint in 1990 when I was in Basic at Ft. Lost in the Woods. The happiest day of my Basic and AIT was the day my brother was able to visit me. He walked in the Barracks (in Uniform) and the Drill Sergeant's Snapped to Attention and Saluted him. They gave me crap every day from then on, but it was worth it to see those jack legs jump and run. One DI in particular from then on and later in my career when we worked together never forgave me for not telling him my brother was a cadet. I think it was because he gave me the hardest time of all the DI's in basic.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Sep 6 at 2021 1:00 AM

2021-09-06T01:00:30-04:00

Yes and no. Cadets are in a "training mode." They are being taught how to be a Commissioned Officer. They are not commissioned, yet, but are likely to end up being commissioned over the course of a few years. You may salute a cadet if you feel that it is proper to do so. However, you may also provide instruction to the cadet, if you feel it would help them. Use your good judgement, and try to avoid taking it personally. If the cadet takes it personally, well, there's a point of instruction for you to provide to the cadet.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 1:38 AM

2021-09-06T01:38:40-04:00

hell no

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2021 7:11 AM

2021-09-12T07:11:15-04:00

They are technically not officers yet, so no salute required.

Response by SFC Dean D. made Sep 15 at 2021 4:39 PM

2021-09-15T16:39:28-04:00

It isn't a cake till it's out of the out of the oven. Cadets and candidates are just that, not officers.

Response by TSgt Robert Hayes made Sep 24 at 2021 5:18 PM

2021-09-24T17:18:06-04:00

Time as a Cadet does not even count as military service when it comes to retirement. No salute required.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2023 10:50 PM

2023-01-10T22:50:04-05:00

Not until they're commissioned.

Response by PO1 Roger Waddle made Feb 25 at 2023 2:35 PM

2023-02-25T14:35:22-05:00

Better question,
What nco worth his weight would allow a "cadet" to display this lack of disrespect ? when the cadet did not return the salute the private could have approached him and respectfully questioned why.
The better of the 2 would have taught a valuable lesson to the other that day.