Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:28:20 -0500

Most Christian and Catholic churches in the United States believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. If a member of one of these churches comes out as gay/lesbian and wants to get married in that church, should the pastor be forced, legally, to perform the marriage, OR does the pastor have the right to choose who he will marry? I'll hold my own convictions and thoughts for the discussion.

Response by CPT Richard Trione made Jan 29 at 2023 9:38 AM

CPT Richard Trione — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:38:21 -0500

Thank you so much for sharing this question and information about Churches being forced to perform gay marriages. I disagree with any Churches having to be forced to do anything that goes against their teachings and against the Holy Word. This is the extreme Liberal "Woke" mob trying to force all institutions to conforming to their extreme Anti-Science agenda. All good and moral people should stand up against such a small group of powerful voices and turn their extreme agenda backwards.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2023 9:38 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:38:56 -0500

I truly believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for EVERYONE. If two people (regardless of sexual orientation) want to be married, then they should be allowed. HOWEVER, the church should not be forced to do anything against their “religious beliefs”. One persons rights do not trump another.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2023 9:50 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:50:54 -0500

I don't think churches should be forced to do anything. The services a church provides are not essential services (like medical care or groceries) and they should be left alone. However, I sincerely believe the day is soon coming when pastors and priests will be forced to perform gay marriages or be imprisoned for "hate crimes." Congress keeps trying to push through legislation on hate speech and hate crimes. These bills do two things: first, they attempt to regular thoughts, not actions. Second, liberals will use this to turn society as a whole against the Church, demonizing anyone who dares to go against what liberals believe is correct. Then when they start imprisoning people for their beliefs, and society will have no problem with it. This is the exact same way Hitler made it socially acceptable and normal to burn Jews and other groups that he thought were not worthy of living.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jan 29 at 2023 9:57 AM

COL Randall C. — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:57:55 -0500

I feel the question is a bit of a red herring because I can't remember or find any instance where a church/pastor was being held civilly liable for not performing a marriage (in the United States that is ... places like Denmark and such are another story). There have been complaints filed civilly (and dismissed) and religiously (i.e., through the church), but the bottom line is that it would be a clear violation of the Constitution to force them to do so (and that has been stated clearly a number of times by the Supreme Court in various decisions).

The church leadership can force their own clergy to do something (or not do something) or face the consequences, but that too is another story - that's not the government forcing them to do so.

Churches (at least in the United States) do not "legally" marry someone. They perform a religious ceremony that is bound by the tenants of their faiths. Only the state can 'legally' marry you (either by license, common law, etc). Denying someone the ability to be married at a church does not infringe upon their rights to be married, so there is not 'conflict of rights' at stake.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jan 29 at 2023 10:54 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:54:17 -0500

No they should not...we need a different name...perhaps a confirmation of relationship?

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 29 at 2023 3:40 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:40:09 -0500

Forced by the state, or forced by the church?

Your question is about churches, but your amplifying data is about pastors.

Should the state force? No. But should the church be allowed to require pastors to do it if that is what the church believes? Absolutely.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2023 4:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 16:23:49 -0500

Yes!

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 29 at 2023 6:17 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 18:17:28 -0500

NO! A pastor has the right to perform or not perform a ceremony based on their belief. There are judges and some beliefs that allow it...go to them instead of trying to find a frivolous lawsuit.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jan 30 at 2023 12:16 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 00:16:38 -0500

Forced - You mean at gun-point? All the pastor has to do is say no.
No person HAS TO marry anyone. The question is a stupid red herring.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Jan 30 at 2023 1:44 AM

SPC James Neidig — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 01:44:53 -0500

Absolutely Not !
When A Government Forces A Religious Group Of Any Denomination To Do Something Against Its Believes , We Will No Longer Have A Government Of The People By The People And For The People !
We Will Have A Dictatorship !

Response by PV2 Stephen Bukucs made Jan 30 at 2023 4:44 AM

PV2 Stephen Bukucs — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 04:44:35 -0500

Response by SrA Brenda Regan made Feb 22 at 2023 10:23 AM

SrA Brenda Regan — Wed, 22 Feb 2023 10:23:26 -0500

Do not feel that her church should be made to perform a gay marriage the Bible speaks against it religion is against it and you’re not going to change the Bible because God wrote that and God‘s word stands if these people want to get married then they can go to the justice of the peace or they can just live together as far as getting married in a church no I don’t think a preacher or a priest or any church should allow it because it is wrong according to the Bible

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Feb 23 at 2023 2:05 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 23 Feb 2023 14:05:32 -0500

There are churches/ministers who will do it, and those that won't. Should they be forced? IMHO No.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Feb 24 at 2023 10:34 PM

SGT Tim Tobin — Fri, 24 Feb 2023 22:34:00 -0500

This is the United States and we are based on freedom of choice and expression. If that wasn't the case idiots like antifa wouldn't be allowed to burn down cities. Using an old adage what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How is heavens name do you "force" someone to do anything in a free country

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Mar 6 at 2023 1:27 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Mon, 06 Mar 2023 13:27:24 -0500

No !!! Just Army and Navy chapels. LOL

Response by SGT John Beardsley made Mar 11 at 2023 1:54 PM

SGT John Beardsley — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:54:21 -0500

Marriage is a civil construction, not a religious one, thus should be open for all persons legally able to enter into civil contracts. Churches conduct/endorse matrimony in accordance with their teachings and beliefs, and are not and should not be forced to do anything that conflicts with their teachings and/or beliefs.
Zealots on BOTH sides of this issue would do the world a favor if they'd stop trying to force the other to conform to their own personal beliefs and learn that it is possible for co-existence without anyone's "rights" being "violated".

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 16 at 2023 8:18 AM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 08:18:26 -0400

Absolutely not. The government has no legal right to interfere wth the free exccise of religion.

Response by Sgt James Stastny made Mar 30 at 2023 9:47 AM

Sgt James Stastny — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 09:47:28 -0400

Absolutely not! That would violate the Bill of Rights.

Response by David De Pue made Apr 1 at 2023 2:27 PM

David De Pue — Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:27:55 -0400

It amazes me how the Left constantly cries about the separation of church and state (which is NOT a Constitutional issue) EXECPT imn this one area!

Response by SFC Norman Dennis made Apr 15 at 2023 6:46 PM

SFC Norman Dennis — Sat, 15 Apr 2023 18:46:26 -0400

In 1981, I had a hard time finding a chaplain to marry my wife & I. It was against my battalion chaplain’s denomination (Southern Baptist), as we had both been divorced. Finally found a Lutheran chaplain on post who would do it. That was 42 years ago and we’re still going strong.

Response by SFC James B Smith made Apr 16 at 2023 5:54 PM

SFC James B Smith — Sun, 16 Apr 2023 17:54:18 -0400

If you read the Bible it will answer your question High Speed.

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Apr 17 at 2023 12:15 AM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Mon, 17 Apr 2023 00:15:10 -0400

Who give a F. General they won't belong to a group like that.

Response by PO3 Randy Rock made Apr 23 at 2023 6:51 PM

PO3 Randy Rock — Sun, 23 Apr 2023 18:51:50 -0400

Not if they love them they won’t. Not if they love Jesus. Not if they won’t encourage sin in people. Not if they want God’s best. Not if they want to please God instead of man.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2023 10:14 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 22:14:53 -0400

The Catholic Church (which is not just the Roman Rite) is the oldest Christian denomination. It determined which books are canonical in Sacred Scripture and developed the Apostles and Nicene Creed. Every Catholic Church has an image of Jesus Christ and profess both his humanity and divinity. What you are stating is hatred and bigotry from the “Know Nothing” Party from the 1800s. A group of Christian Fundamentalists who discriminated Catholics, Jews, and other immigrants. The bigotry they had continued to spread by the works of the late Jack Chick, a “Christian” fundamentalist who drew tracts that spread hatred towards anyone or any group that did not follow his narrow view of Christianity.

For your SA, the view you expressed and anti-Catholicism is not tolerated in the US Armed Forces and is considered an EO violation. I was an EOA when I was enlisted. I saw five careers ended due to anti-Catholic bigoty. Are careers ended today for anti-Catholicism? Yes. It just happened with another branch of service.

I highly recommend you take a good, accredited Western Civilization course in conjunction with a good, accredited Church History course.

If you look carefully, Catholic Chaplains wear the Latin Cross on their uniforms designating that they are a Christian Chaplain. I recommend you speak with you Chaplain to learn more. In the end, you are entitled to an opinion, but your opinion should be based on facts. What you stated is not factual.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2023 10:22 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 22:22:41 -0400

No. 1st Amendment protects recognized religions from performing or providing what goes against their faith. As I posted earlier in detail, your question should read, “Most Protestant and Catholic Churches…” Stating Christian and Catholic implies Catholics are not Christians, which is not true. It is a leftover from the influence of the “Know Nothing” party. I seen careers ended due to that EO violation.

Response by Brad Miller made Jun 21 at 2023 12:59 AM

Brad Miller — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 00:59:46 -0400

"Congrss shall make no law concerning the establishment (mandatory, official) of religion, or prohibit the free *exercise* (practice, not just believe) thereof".
I grew up in South America, in a country that was *allegedly* neutral, but *actually* Catholic.
No member of the clergy was ever charged with a crime. They were never investigated financially. Property was always a sweetheart deal with the government. Protestants and Jews could be attacked under charges of "heresy". Churches and synagogues were routinely audited, and were not allowed to have religious schools.
I have LIVED where there was no 1st Amendment protections. It is -- very bad.
So what gives YOU the RIGHT to knowingly, deliberately violate the basic tenets of someone else's rdligion?

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Jun 23 at 2023 1:14 PM

CPT Ian Stewart — Fri, 23 Jun 2023 13:14:20 -0400

IMHO this question gets into the separation of church and State arena. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but it seems to me that, constitutionally, a court would not be able to order a minister/priest to marry a gay couple.
Just a side note to CPO Capps: RE: "Most Christian and Catholic churches..." I think you'll find that Catholics are Christian. In fact, before the Protestant reformation in the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church was the Christian church in Western Europe. The Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) was the Christian church in eastern Europe. It all stems from the division of the Roman Empire. So a more accurate sentence would have been "Most Protestant and Catholic churches.....". Just saying...