Should combat arms be required to shave while deployed to the Middle East?

SGT Justin Jarrell — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:31:59 -0400

I thoroughly believe, that having a beard in a place where a shaven face is almost frowned upon, would help with making the initial contact with the elders and senior leaders in the community. I understand that shaving is required to make a proper seal on the gas mask but the day to day communication with these community leaders is far more likely to occur than a chemical attack, in which case, you probably arent carrying your mask anyway.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 4:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:52:13 -0400

Yes as long as they are in uniform. They need approval to not shave such as Spec Ops.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 3 at 2014 3:20 PM

MAJ Dallas D. — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 15:20:45 -0500

I think this is an interesting question. Downrange their culture is that men have facial hair, I see this as a possible force multiplier in helping to gain trust in the local community. It's the exact reason Spec Ops do it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 7:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 19:34:48 -0500

I feel if there is no chemical threat, shaving is unnecessary aside from uniform reasons. I also feel saluting downrage is ridiculous, but doesn't mean it will ever happen.

Note: This is not me attacking you, but merely stating a fact. I am CBRN, and my biggest pet peeve is people calling it a gas mask. It is a Pro Mask, since it is designed to protect against gases, vapors, and liquids.

Response by MSgt Tim Gladu made Nov 5 at 2014 3:57 PM

MSgt Tim Gladu — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:57:55 -0500

The military has had this rule in place for so long and I believe in this case they should be allowed to have a beard just so the locals do give them a level of respect. I worked with several Saudi officers all had beards and they did kind of frown on us for not having beards.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Apr 4 at 2015 8:06 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Sat, 04 Apr 2015 20:06:18 -0400

I completely agree with you on this. Beards have a very real utility for soldiers in the modern world.

I've heard the "SF needs beards because it makes them look less like a soldier"
Really? You mean to tell me that a beard disguises the 6'4" blonde, English speaking, multicam wearing, M4 wielding US soldier? And if it was true...why not them offer the same advantage to the rest of the deployed soldiers in the region?

Or "SF needs beards because Middle Eastern cultures see them as manly and respectable"
OK, I'll buy that one. So, why don't we then allow 150,000 soldiers in the region to look manly and respectable in the eyes of the locals, as opposed to some of the baby faced, pimpled faces with goofy army issue BCG glasses we have all seen deployed?

Of course I'm not saying everyone run to grow your beards, but some of the arguments against them are frankly outdated.

Gas mask seal?
Plenty of Sikh, Indian, Norwegian, German, Polish, Italian, Russian, etc. soldiers wear them without a problem.

Sanitary reasons?
Really? As opposed to taking a shower and washing your hair?

Cohesion? Discipline?
Nothing says cohesion more than seeing Sikhs with beards but I cant. Or profiles with beards but I cant. Or SF types with frankenbeards but I cant.

Discipline...what does a beard have to do with discipline?
I tell you this, If I see an awesomely bearded CSM furiously coming my way, I will become a walking Army Regulation I would be so disciplined.

But then again, I'm biased towards beards, as I wore one for 18 years before the Army, and I have seen foreign allied soldiers with beards while serving.

Sometimes grooming regulations have more to do with the preferences of a specific CG or SMA than anything else.

v/r

Response by SSG Justin Sparks made Apr 20 at 2015 1:47 PM

SSG Justin Sparks — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:47:11 -0400

I agree with you, after a month in country, our masks stayed in the back of the truck the entire time

Response by SSG Justin Sparks made Apr 20 at 2015 1:48 PM

SSG Justin Sparks — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:48:45 -0400

Plus having the beards would make it easier to blend in the area and help to make the locals feel more at ease

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 20 at 2015 2:04 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:04:41 -0400

Should anyone have to shave at all period? There are plenty of professional armed forces that allow beards, and it hurts them not at all... I know, the stereotypical reply is "well what about gas masks?". To which I must reply, "what about them?". If we are to make decisions because something might happen maybe one day somewhere, we might as well add an aluminum foil liner to our headgear in case aliens are trying to take remote control of our brains, just in case..

If deploying to an area where there is a CREDIBLE CBRN threat, then the Commander can mandate shaving. Simple. Other than that, the facial hair prohibition is arbitrary...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 3:49 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:49:26 -0400

Yes. We are the American Army. I am not going to conform to their standards. I am not in there to be their BFF. If I am there respect goes both ways. Shaving is with keeping good order and being uniformed. If you are SF I could see the value. I have done many KLEs in my time. I really doubt they would have gone any better if I had a bread.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 9:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:45:57 -0400

I understand your point but I'm hesitant to get behind a policy change based only upon our current operating environment. While it may add a small amount of credibility with our host nation, it also opens up a huge can of worms. What facial hair styles will be acceptable? Goatees, Fu Manchus, Handlebars, horseshoes, etc? What about length? What if a Soldier can't grow a decent beard? I'm almost 30 and still can't grow that thick of a beard. Why only Combat Arms? Truckers go outside the wire too.

I think the change would be more of a headache than it's worth.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 11:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:25:04 -0400

I'm not sure I understand the gist of the question. I see what you are saying, but the reality that I have lived is not congruent with your logic. As a non-Infantry guy I have conducted far more local leader engagements than the infantry guys I know. I would go so far to say as I have seen more local leader engagements conducted by non-combat arms than I have seen conducted by combat arms.
A clean shaven face is not frowned upon, it is a sign of age and wisdom in a man. A man that has lived long enough to have a healthy beard with grey can be counted on to have wisdom.
To go further with this, The leaders we make contact with understand our way is not their way. Even the guys in the remote valleys of western Afghanistan. I look really young for my age, but outside of some friendly joking, I had no issues securing warrants when we moved to warrant based targeting in 09.