Should Cyber Warriors be receiving combat/ hazardous duty pay?

SSG Timothy McCoy — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 16:03:51 -0500

Should Cyber Warriors be receiving combat pay? Or should drone pilots receive Flight Pay? And Combat Pay?
I just have to wonder with all the cut backs, is there a lot of this going on.
When I was stationed at Ft. Rucker there were pilots in the classroom getting Flight pay w/o doing any blade time leaving the ground. They qualified for their pay by going to "fly" in the simulator for an hour once every 3 month.
I won't cover Combat awards here.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 11 at 2015 4:00 PM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 16:00:23 -0500

Not unless they are serving in the theater of conflict, pretty clear regulations covering this. If a soldier/Officer wishes to receive combat pay, they can re class to a combat arms MOS, may not be easy but if they really want it, anything is possible.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 11 at 2015 4:05 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 16:05:34 -0500

I do not agree with combat pay for those not in a declared combat zone. While we have advanced to the point that kinetic and non kinetic attacks from home station, they are not directly in danger.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Jan 11 at 2015 5:36 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 17:36:30 -0500

My opinion, and please understand all the statements I am saying in this is not supported by factual evidence. It is what I saw and "understand" to be happening.

First I believe that the military extra pay system is crap and needs to be redone. Flight pay, combat pay, hazardous duty pay, tax exemptions.. the list goes on. These extra pay systems have been abused by the military for years. I am not saying everyone abuses them but I know for a fact there are some, Enlisted and Officers, that cook the books or make convenient stops in areas so they now "technically" qualify for some extra pay. It happens all the time. Travel vouchers not quite correct but it is something "everyone does". You hear someone getting caught about once a year but other then that it is business as usually. the usual excuse is "Well we deserve it or we should deserve it." Or something along those line.

Is this everyone? NO. But the Military has run away costs that honestly need roped in. And its from the top down too. Its one of the many reasons the military budget is so bloated, and why it is easier to cut Military members pay. "Well they are getting this extra pay so to save money we will just cut their education funds." Sound familiar?

So my two cents. HELL NO. you shouldn't be getting extra pay if you didn't earn it. No technicalities, no bull crap. Integrity doesn't just extend to the letter of the law, it extends to the spirit also. Flight pay? For flying a Simulator? Combat pay and you never left Germany? Tax Exempt because you flew in and out of a country in 24 hours? really.

In my opinion the Military needs to use a little integrity from the top down and get there ducks in a row, because the way money is wasted right now makes it to easy for bureaucrats to pick of military benefits one at a time.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 12:43 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 00:43:02 -0500

A simple NO to each issue in question.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 5:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 05:58:28 -0500

If you're in a combat zone then yes but if they're in the States then no. You're not going through any type of hardship. Dropping a computer virus and then going to Starbucks once you get off isn't the same as going back to your tent after a long day on patrol/gate guard

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 6:19 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 06:19:15 -0500

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 12 at 2015 9:54 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 09:54:32 -0500

Should cyber warriors receive combat/hazardous duty pay?
- All the services need to develop and implement incentives for critical MOSs and additional skills that are needed to support the COCOMs and national strategic needs.
- With above stated, two basic options are to use tools already on the shelf (combat pay, hazardous duty pay, flight pay, etc) or to develop new tools (something analogous to language pay).
- With above stated, it seems to me to be a stretch to give combat pay to a cyber warrior or a new medal ranked above the BSM to a drone pilot. Combat pay is given for the increased personal risk that a person faces in combat. This can not be argued with a straight face for a cyber warrior who generally is operating from CONUS and without increased personal risk. Same can be said for a drone pilot. Where is the increased personal risk?
- This is not to argue that these MOS and specialities should not receive anything. I am just arguing they should receive that which is logical and off the shelf (if it applies) or develop a new tool if that is needed to incentivise individuals to develop these skills.
- De emphasizing valor and personal courage by elevating non valor actions, skills or MOSs is a dangerous road that we should not start down.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Jan 12 at 2015 10:10 AM

MSgt Michael Durkee — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:10:36 -0500

As stated, from many others, a resounding NO. I would have to believe that there would be some inherent stress involved with the potential outcome of a drone mission and possible civilian casualties and how that may effect the pilots. Just the same, those individuals not in the AOR aren't taking return fire and risking their own life and limb.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 10:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:52:47 -0500

Thats like me saying i should get sea pay because i got wet washing aircraft. No common sense.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 1:30 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:30:17 -0500

I'm of the opinion that folks sitting in a SCIF or a bunker anywhere in CONUS, flying a drone anywhere in the world, should not get combat pay or hazardous duty pay, simply because they are not in combat (their remotely piloted vehicle is) and they are not in a hazardous duty zone.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Jan 12 at 2015 2:25 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:25:30 -0500

I can understand flight pay for the drone pilots. It's incentive pay, and pilots to be qualified with specific skillsets.
However, drones are unmanned to avoid the hazard of losing personnel. Without the danger or risks associated, no pay

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jan 12 at 2015 5:30 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:30:53 -0500

In this modern age of being a "Warrior without Risk" there are certain things that should vanish;
Combat Pay.... you did not "fight" you dont get paid

Hazardous Duty anything... you were not "at Risk" you don't get anything

Combat Deployment credit... you weer still at home, so when your time comes you still deploy

Combat Awards (unless your drone fired the Hellfire that killed some ISIS Chief Leader)

I could go on and on... it was bad enough seeing a jet plane streak over head while I was ducking for cover...but to even CONSIDER giving someone a bonus when they were NOT receiving incoming fire is just an insult

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 5:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:41:39 -0500

I can't give an opinion on flight pay and whatnot, but when it comes to combat/hazardous duty pay my answer is simple. Are they in country? If yes, then they should get it. Try rationalizing denying a finance soldier HDP when their FOB takes indirect and they get maimed as a result. Is their job the same as an infantryman going outside the wire? Absolutely not. That doesn't mean that a soldier deployed in theater, regardless of MOS, isn't in some degree of danger.