Should DOD create a payscale for Enlisted with Degrees?

2016-05-10T11:22:24-04:00

Alot of enlisted have Bachelors, Masters, and PHDs, often times they have to make decisions on crossing over to the Commisioned Officer side or Warrant, but we all know those die hard NCOs who do to their love for the NCO Corps won't make the change, I say lets reward them besides promotions

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-05-10T11:27:45-04:00

Pay is based on the job. Degrees enable a person to obtain a job which pays more. One should not be paid more than their counterparts unless they are out performing their counterparts.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made May 10 at 2016 11:31 AM

2016-05-10T11:31:23-04:00

Absolutely. If they want to stay competitive with the civilian sector.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:31 AM

2016-05-10T11:31:53-04:00

If they want to get paid more for their degree, let them apply for a warrant or commission. If you start paying Soldiers more for getting a degree where does it stop? Should a CPT with a PhD get paid more than a CPT with a BS or Masters?

Response by SSgt Alvar Lam made May 10 at 2016 11:32 AM

2016-05-10T11:32:03-04:00

It is an interesting idea, for sure. Will it upset the current system and anger those who climbed the ranks the old-fashioned way? Definitely. But it should be noted that the private sector does this already, and could be a solution to challenges faced by the military in training and retaining troops for high-demand or highly-technical fields like Cyber or Intel.

Response by SFC Gary Edwards made May 10 at 2016 11:32 AM

2016-05-10T11:32:32-04:00

Accidentally voted this up. So yeah sounds cool! But if you have a bachelors degree, then why stay enlisted? Apply for OCS and earn a commission.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:33 AM

2016-05-10T11:33:08-04:00

There already is one...it's called the Officer scale. There are many of us enlisted with degrees (sometimes higher ones that our Officer counterparts) but that doesn't mean we should get paid more. The Officers' level of responsibility is not typically matched on the enlisted side. One of the questions I hate the most is 'Why didn't/don't you become an Officer?" as it shows a bit of contempt for being enlisted. There is nothing wrong with having a degree and being enlisted, but that doesn't mean I should be paid more because I do. The point of our profession is to defend freedom, and part of that is the opportunity to choose your own profession. We all chose ours, and if you feel that you don't get paid enough for what you do, perhaps seek a change in your life/career.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 10 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-05-10T11:43:29-04:00

Your point is well intentioned, but I don't agree. I enlisted WITH 2 Bachelors degrees, knowing full well that I wanted the job I wanted at the rank I would receive (E4 with degree) when I enlisted; nothing more. And yes, a lot--probably most--of the senior enlisted obtain degrees during their military career, but as others have said, we signed up to do a job, and just because some of us have degrees, does not mean it is the degree in-and-of itself that warrants higher pay.
Those who want more pay need to rank up; whether that means hitting those lofty senior NCO ranks, or go Warrant or Commissioned. It's the choice we make.

Response by SFC Andrew Miller made May 10 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-05-10T11:43:31-04:00

I have no regrets in the path I chose. While I did consider going OCS a few times throughout my career, I knew that I could best serve the Army by staying enlisted. I can tell you that I know for a fact that I left the Army better than I found it by teaching, coaching, and mentoring the young Soldiers under my responsibility and by helping guide my peers and the junior officers either over or near me. I never once thought about being paid more because of my degree and wouldn't change a thing if I could do it all over again.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-05-10T11:46:23-04:00

No and also see Capt Private RallyPoint Member comments. Would you pay a Walmart cashier more money because he or she has a PhD? SFC Randy Purham as much as we want to think civilian sector pays more, it is not the case at all. Think benefit, think opportunities, think free education, free training, think leadership building, think serving/fighting for your country, and think about the unique experience you are earning. Also, You can't compare someone who has a Master degree working as an executive to a Enlisted Soldier who has a Master degree. Think different job descriptions, responsibilities, and skill sets.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made May 10 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-05-10T12:31:17-04:00

NO- Definitely not. That would not be fair to the majority of young Soldiers who joined the DEP in high school and shipped to basic right after graduation. Those that go straight to college and come in with degrees or a significant amount of college credit already hold an advantage towards promotions over those who came in right out of high school. Not everyone has the same time and opportunities to devote to college courses while on active duty, and it may take longer for some than others due to OPTEMPO and other factors. Soldiers should not be financially penalized for putting an Army career ahead of personal education, and Soldiers should not be financially rewarded for what they did before joining the Army. I agree that civilian education should factor into promotions, which should be an incentive for Soldiers and NCO's to be proactive in their civilian education. But they shouldn't be paid less just because they had a longer path to get a degree versus those who went to college first.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-05-10T12:40:21-04:00

I think it's not a bad idea. But I have definitely see those who climbed the ranks without a BA/MA being salty about it. I think it would give Enlisted soldiers incentive to using their TA. Most enlisted don't use that college money and it keeps getting lower every year. Furthermore it seems impractical to cover 16credit hours with only $4000 annually and not need additional finiancial support (loans, etc). If they choose to remain in service then a financial incentive is practical and helpful. I know some will object to this on the case of 'just go to OCS'. But that is an entirely different level of leadership. Why would we not empower and reward lower enlisted and NCO's for pursuing professional and educational development with a financial incentive? Officers will have even more motivated and well rounded soldiers under them. I don't see this hurting the Army at all.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:04 PM

2016-05-10T13:04:12-04:00

If you want to cross over to the officer side, feel free. In my very limited experience, most enlisted have degrees from National University, Un of Pheonix and other universities that are not accepted out side of the military. I was proud of my being enlisted, if you are not then move along.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:08 PM

2016-05-10T13:08:13-04:00

I share the majority opinion and say no for a couple of reasons.
1. If you're a 31B1 with a PhD in history ... how does that help the team accomplish the mission?
2. We've all met them ... the overeducated idiot. One's BS degree may in fact be a degree in BS ... so again, how does that help the team accomplish the mission?

The best case scenario is you prove yourself, earn rank and earn the pay grade appropriate to the E, W or O grade. Should the Peter principle comes to fruition, then hopefully the respective Chains of Command takes appropriate action.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made May 10 at 2016 1:24 PM

2016-05-10T13:24:16-04:00

How about liVing with the decisions made while in the military

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made May 10 at 2016 1:35 PM

2016-05-10T13:35:47-04:00

No. A truck driver or mechanic with a degree in psychology or business is still just a truck driver or a mechanic.

Response by SPC Burt Epps made May 10 at 2016 1:58 PM

2016-05-10T13:58:24-04:00

No. Military leaders are built in the field with practical experience. A degree in basket weaving does not now, nor will it ever, make you a better Soldier.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 10 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-05-10T14:23:09-04:00

It will never pass Congress.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:28 PM

2016-05-10T14:28:06-04:00

Having a degree doesn't equate to higher pay in the civil side automatically either...when I first came out of the Navy, I got paid exactly as much to dig a ditch as the next ditch-digger, even with a B.S.

An education gets you two things that matter: the "license" to seek higher employment, and the connections to find it. If an NCO has his/her doctorate, and finds it more fulfilling to continue in their current role, it doesn't mean they couldn't find a path to higher pay-or that they are any less appreciated because they retain the same salary with the advanced degree. I had a Chief once in the Reserve who flew airliners in his "day job", and a Senior Chief who owned several patents.

Trust me, we all get "out" someday, and out here...an NCO with a masters is soon going to be earning a great deal more than an O-4 with a bachelors.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:33 PM

2016-05-10T14:33:37-04:00

Rather than adjust the pay scale I would say better retirement

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made May 10 at 2016 2:52 PM

2016-05-10T14:52:55-04:00

No, most guys with a college degree enlist to get their student loans paid, because the OCS path does not allow for that. I knew a lot of guys who had guaranteed OCS in their contract after some amount of years. I knew three guys who took their guaranteed OCS and commissioned and another who said no thanks and EASd.

A lot of the guys I knew who enlisted often times had a chip on their shoulders about having a degree, but they fail to realize they enlisted for the student loan repayment plus 60% of the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Have two guys in my MBA class who enlisted with a degree for that reason and said they are glad they enlisted as Marine 0311 because they never would have been able to pay of their student loans.

Also guys who have a degree go in as a higher rank and are typically older so more is expected out of them.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-05-10T14:53:21-04:00

No, but give them incentives that will help them get more out of their degree. Maybe pave better roads to the Officer's Corps after getting a degree.

Response by Maj Rob Drury made May 10 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-05-10T14:57:39-04:00

Why? Their degree doesn't result in greater responsibility. I certainly hope you're not suggesting that the only thing separating officer and enlisted is a degree. Most military members are not officers because most military members completely lack the potential to perform as officers. A degree doesn't change that.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 3:03 PM

2016-05-10T15:03:59-04:00

There already is. If you have a Bachelors Degree (BA/BS) you come in at SPC/E-4. That's what I did. Also got a $6K bonus for it as well. That degree also maxes you out on Civilian Education promotion points.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 10 at 2016 4:09 PM

2016-05-10T16:09:12-04:00

If you want to "Incentivize Good Behavior" Reward it.

We give higher Scores for Higher (A)PFT and in turn make promotions easier for them. That means more money. If you really want to reward someone, give them more money.

Establish a baseline. Get a 300 PFT (Perfect Score), get an extra $100/month. Watch how many folks will work out every single day.

Do the same thing for education. Get a degree higher than the one required for current rank, get $100. As an example, establish the following chart:

Junior enlisted = HS Grad
NCO (Service Specific) = AA/AS
SNCO/SrNCO & WO/CO = BA/BS
FG = MS

If a Junior Enlisted completes their Associates, they get $100 pro-pay until they pick up NCO. If they can get their Bachelors, they get $200/month. If they have a MS, $300.00 When they pin on, it drops $100.00 (because they are now expected to be more educated).

Same goes up the ranks.

Now will all the degrees be applicable? No. Of course not. However there will be diminishing returns as you get more education, and as you are in longer, so it's not going to matter. Furthermore, since people are in and tuition assistance is approved at command level, you will start seeing more and more applicable degrees at the NCO/WO/CO (Careerist) ranks.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 10 at 2016 4:24 PM

2016-05-10T16:24:51-04:00

I would say it should be treated more like the bonus system if the degree is relevant to your MOS. Example: If a medic goes out and gets his AS or BS as a Paramedic, the should qualify for a bonus for that.

Response by GySgt David Andrews made May 10 at 2016 5:05 PM

2016-05-10T17:05:15-04:00

No!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 10 at 2016 5:21 PM

2016-05-10T17:21:22-04:00

No!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 5:59 PM

2016-05-10T17:59:27-04:00

wouldn't that be nice....have a MBA and halfway through my MS

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 6:33 PM

2016-05-10T18:33:24-04:00

I wish that I had someone giving me pointers when I came in. Things would be a lot different for me, financially, when I retire. My question about this would be: Do we reward folks that sit at their desks, most of the day, working on their degrees? I know a lot of folks do it. I give Soldiers time during the day, to work on this, but that isn't their primary.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 8:14 PM

2016-05-10T20:14:41-04:00

I think that is a valid question. When I was enlisted, we had a GySgt with a masters from Cornell..he didn't want to be an officer.

If we want adaptive/innovative leaders (and the Army says that we do), I think incentivizing education is a good idea.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-05-10T21:36:46-04:00

Yes. By law enlisted soldiers are only required to have a high school diploma or equivalent. Yet the army places heavy emphasis on advanced degrees. There should be a pay scale adjustment.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made May 11 at 2016 1:57 AM

2016-05-11T01:57:43-04:00

Military grade, GS grade, or civilian, we are paid for the job we do in the position we are in. I say no.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 9:51 PM

2016-05-12T21:51:36-04:00

No. There is effectively a pay increase for if you get a degree. In the air force there in a correlation between level of education and rank. Well guess what? The higher ranked you are the more money you get! The opportunity is there to get the degree on the military dime. Get the degree and work hard and then get promoted. Too many people assume that because they're enlisted they need to "stay" uneducated. No way man! We have a more professional force these days that is only benefited by the enlisted getting degrees.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made May 16 at 2016 1:12 PM

2016-05-16T13:12:02-04:00

No. Step up or return to ranks. Your degrees will help for promotion only.

Response by LTC Stephen B. made Sep 26 at 2016 11:26 AM

2016-09-26T11:26:54-04:00

How about, oh I don't know, extra promotion points for college credit, so your "higher pay scale" is achieved by being promoted sooner, thereby (hopefully) also using your degree in a manner beneficial to the military service that paid for it?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2016 9:00 AM

2016-10-08T09:00:00-04:00

I think most are missing the question proposed. I don't think the pay scale should reflect the officer side exactly, however, it only makes sense to have a sub-scale for enlisted soldiers with at least a Bachelor's degree -- especially if they earned it outside of the Army. That is my opinion of course and it is a biased one: I joined with a BA and decided enlisted was right for me for various reasons. I believe a four year degree definitely has a positive effect on a soldiers ability and performance and should therefore be reflected in his or her payscale.