Should DoD establish a policy that enlisted leaders have at least an equivalent civilian education to their officer counterpart?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:33:55 -0400

Should DoD establish a policy that the SEL for an Officer have at least an equivalent civilian education to their officer counterpart? An example being that at the E7 grade, you deal primarily with O1-O2 who have at least a Bachelor's - should they have a Bachelor's as well? E8-E9 working towards Master's, et cetera?

I see many SELs who know their job inside and out, but seem marginalized next to their officers' educations. Additionally, Field Grade Officers have a chance for military-sponsored degrees, such as the War College, that are often not offered to Enlisted. Wouldn't it help the overall DoD mission to have a level field between the two sides?

Why or why not?

Sub-question: If the highest enlisted PME was a degree-producing course, similar to the War College, would it be advantageous to the military as a whole?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2014 6:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:42:55 -0400

I think they should. I see some senior enlisted who by virtue of years, know their job and know the military way but in their writing and their speaking you can tell their education is lacking. Case in point, an E7 down range who could not even read his own PowerPoint slides that were on about a 7th grade reading level. Uneducated leaders are ineffective to lead troops who can point out grammatical errors in their writing and speech.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 8:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 20:53:39 -0500

Would they going to do something about the pay difference? If it's a requirement I be like my officer, so as to level the playing field as it were, then bring the level close across the board.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 2 at 2016 12:22 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 02 May 2016 12:22:09 -0400

This is purely a suggestion, you raise a very interesting point. I'd seen that at naval postgraduate school or NPS a cmsgt USAF I think was allowed to teach as comp sci faculty. There's a program NPS has of some kind to let senior enlisted attend, I did see the video for it. Also, being as many of the senior typ commissioned pme schools, e.g. naval war college, usacgsc, army was college, Natl war colg often have external and or now online degree programs I think it'd be crazy I think to not arrange for NCOs to be able to use them even if only space a in some fashion. Id read that NPS also has I think a comp sci PhD online, and uscg aux had a master's program for its civ mbrs somewhere at NPS as well. Imknew of ccaf for USAF, look also at http://www.excelsior.edu very svc friendly was part of NY govt split off privatized, and new school http://www.uopeople.edu nearly free no tuition I'd read only admin exam costs has Assoc Bach bus admin and comp sci and MBA don't know how viewed yet by svc and industry just got accred by DETC formerly NHSC you'll find it all promise. Hope helps eager to hear thoughts love to chat further many thnx.

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Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made May 2 at 2016 12:36 PM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Mon, 02 May 2016 12:36:16 -0400

I agree that communication skills should be a part of the promotion process either in-house and/or college. High school is not enough to be a leader in today's military. Some of the senior enlisted as well as both warrent officers and officers lack back communication skills. A couple of officers I have communicated with who were field grade officers did not possess clear communication skills. I believe this is also a recruiting problem for the service academies. These days a larger part of communication is written versus verbal.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jan 3 at 2017 1:28 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 13:28:13 -0500

While I think there are many that do get their civilian education and all should, in my biased opinion, but that ignores the hands on work experience the enlisted soldiers are bring to the position? So who would you rather your son follow into combat and who would you recommend for promotion to SFC: the Green Beret, recipient of the Silver Star and multiple tours in multiple locations with his AA degree or the someone with their Doctorate of Gender Studies from Southern Rubow College?
Not saying that both are not great soldiers or that both are not dirt bags BUT one has a depth of experience that I value more...you can guess which one for your self.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 3 at 2017 1:35 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 13:35:59 -0500

At that level of education, where would we get 18 year old privates?
May as well be an officer then.
The suggestion sounds good....but is ludicrous in reality.

Response by MSgt Neil Greenfield made Jan 3 at 2018 8:05 AM

MSgt Neil Greenfield — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 08:05:35 -0500

At the very least, an associates degree. This is where the USAF gets it right, through the Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) - http://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Barnes/CCAF/
If an Airman doesn’t acquire the degree in his specialty, he or she is just plain lazy. It’s also transferable to 4 year colleges (some, not all).

Community College of the Air Force

The Community College of the Air Force isa federally-chartered degree-granting institution that serves the United States Air Force's enlistedtotal force. We partner with over 108 affiliated Air

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2018 4:25 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 16:25:11 -0400

I know some senior NCOs that have forgotten more than most will ever know about their specialty. Credit for their decades of experience must always be seriously considered. Regrettably, he state of higher learning in the US today has also reduced the theoretical and practical value of an undergraduate degree a great deal.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jun 3 at 2018 11:29 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 23:29:36 -0400

It probably will happen in the future. Not so long ago, it was rare for a Senior NCO to have any education beyond high school. I think the Army should do something similar to the Air Force where you get college credit for you military training and experience so by the time you are an E-6 you have an associates degree, E-7 a bachelors and a masters at E-9.

Response by MSgt T Clark made Jun 4 at 2018 4:00 AM

MSgt T Clark — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 04:00:02 -0400

I agree. I wanted to attend the AFIT school but at the time it was only offered to Officers. So, SEL PME capped out at the Senior Enlisted Academy. The officer training was a lot more advanced for technical and executive level experience in there career. When I retired I went back to school and earned two Masters Degrees that compliments my technical and manament experience. Last I always thought he SNCO academy should warrant a Bachelors or Masters degree in management.