Should EIB be included into Infantry OSUT

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:30:43 -0400

Should EIB be included into Infantry OSUT? Would this better prepare soldiers for taking on the role of being in the Infantry, or is it up to the unit to train the soldier?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 5:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:45:33 -0400

As much as I agree with doing this, I do think it is too early to push the EIB. Soldiers need time to train in each of those events and master the skills, and I think it is too early to expect complete mastery during OSUT. Having said that, I think we should introduce those tasks and establish a standard of basic proficiency in each. Then it is up to NCOs at the unit to refine those skills.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 25 at 2014 6:28 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:28:06 -0400

If you make it a part of OSUT, aren't you just making it another hand out at that point? If you keep the current standard, the attrition rate would be too high, which would be prohibitive, so they'd HAVE to lower the standard so as not to impact their trainee output... At that point you might as well just make it a device for the Army Service Ribbon...

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 25 at 2014 6:59 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:59:46 -0400

It's something for all Infantry to shoot for Expert Infantry Badge, it is something that is above and beyond what they are receiving in OSUT, not every Infantryman is destined to be an Expert, same with the Expert Medics Badge, it is something to set themselves apart from their peers; leave it alone.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 10:39 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 22:39:47 -0400

OSUT is all about teaching 11Bs the basics to pass and be sent along to their first duty stations. Once the PVTs are at their first unit, they learn the finer techniques from their NCOs and officers. While there is an overall EIB standard, each INF unit has their own methods and traditions that come with the EIB training and testing. Traditionally the INF BN has set minimum requirements for EIB testing and there is some sort of ceremonial event held to commemorate those who pass. I don't think that those traditions would hold the same meaning in an OSUT environment, and therefore think it would be better to do it outside of that schoolhouse.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 25 at 2014 11:09 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:09:12 -0400

Best to leave this as is.....let the EIB be conducted/awarded at the unit level, it's where it belongs. This is something young Team/Squad and Platoon Leadership work on with their men to gain proficiency on necessary skills and tasks, really allows the leadership to understand the strengths & weaknesses of the men within their charge.....keep this tradition with the unit, it does not belong in TRADOC!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2014 5:53 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 May 2014 17:53:30 -0400

Resourcing, planning, and executing an EIB testing is quite an undertaking. In addition, each testing has to be certified (although the folks at Benning are the ones who do it), and the testers are supposed to have an EIB themselves. All of that, combined with the fact that Sand Hill has enough on it's plate makes for a nightmare all around.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 25 at 2014 10:21 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Sun, 25 May 2014 22:21:22 -0400

If you have a CIB, why would you want an EIB? And does having an EIB promote unrealistic overconfidence? I do not know in current doctrine - just asking...

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 27 at 2014 10:11 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 22:11:33 -0400

E = Expert. How is someone coming out of OSUT an "expert"....?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2014 3:06 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 15:06:04 -0400

NO! The reasons others have given are sufficient, but there is a point to badges which indicate expertise above and beyond what is expected to pass AIT. The point is to have something to strive for; effort that is well above and beyond what is required. I understand the course has gotten much easier. The first time I went out for it, I was in Wildflecken, Germany. (1975) 120 tried out for it and 6 got it. The second time 60 tried out for it and 3 got the badge, this time including me. Both times I was the very last person to complete that damn ruck run under the time limit.

Unlike being a Jumpmaster (each airborne unit must have a minimal number of Jumpmasters to operate) there is no requirement to have a certain number of EIB holders in an Infantry unit. This and similar badges should always and forever be reserved for those who set their own personal standards well above the minimum requirements.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Nov 21 at 2014 12:29 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:29:31 -0500

I earned this thing many times over coming up through the ranks. I was told it was a one time thing but after I got it I was told I HAD to lead by example and keep going through the damn course to show my soldiers I knew my stuff.One of the last times I did it I got major cramps in my upper back/neck and wound up latching on to a CPL who led me the last 6 miles as my head was stuck in the straight up position and I couldnt see where I was going. After crossing the finish line the medics gave me a muscle relaxer and as Top came by to see if crazy ole Glenn was ok I told him he had best not slot me in for next year, we bot studied each other face for a moment ( I hoping he would take me seriously and he to see if I was joking) both cracked a huge smile and he just simply said "You getting soft on me SGT" . The next year I was all stoked to go at it again. I think its an award to show that you are prepared to go above and beyond the soldier next to you and to wearing it should represent just that, putting it INSIDE the OSUT will take away from that and mine would find its way in a trash can, just like the dime a dozen ribbon did during Desert Storm.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 4:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 16:58:01 -0400

I don't like this at all. It should be for someone that has some time in the infantry. It is not just a badge. It is a status you can attain.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 12:35 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 00:35:17 -0400

It is Basic Training not Expert Training.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Apr 27 at 2015 6:25 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:25:36 -0400

I want to add something.

OSUT is to get a new IET soldier to... 60%! The unit and the soldiers work on the balance... Until that special day when you can show that you can execute all tasks to standard... Retesting on no more than two of those tasks.. And double "No-Go" NONE!

Things have changed over the years... I won mine in 1987... But the process was bear. It was something proved to you unit, your team, and the chain of command. The feeling when you get it is priceless... And then you have to keep relearning it every year.

Keep it where it is... In the unit

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jun 13 at 2015 2:03 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 14:03:29 -0400

It's a nice idea, but how many OSUT grads are already both making 'Physical Fitness Excellence' on the APFT and shooting Expert on BRM? If they can't do that, then there's no point in the rest of the test. Of those, how many can perform the EIB tasks and finish up with a 12 mile ruck march in 3 hours? I think you'd be very lucky to get one from each class.

Response by MAJ Chris Rice made Jun 13 at 2015 2:10 PM

MAJ Chris Rice — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 14:10:12 -0400

No, I should be tested once the Soldier is at the unit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2015 9:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 21:22:14 -0400

No. Period.

Response by SGT Justin Jarrell made Jun 13 at 2015 10:24 PM

SGT Justin Jarrell — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:24:33 -0400

Every task required for EIB is a level one task. That is why Privates participate and often are awarded this award. OSUT is not just basic training. Basic training is the first nine weeks of OSUT. Then the rest is learning specifically how to be an Infantryman good enough to effectively close with and destroy the enemy. And if that doesn't take expertise I don't know what does. However the logistics for such a large scale test would eat up way too much valuable training time.

Response by SPC William Weedman made Jun 15 at 2015 4:06 AM

SPC William Weedman — Mon, 15 Jun 2015 04:06:11 -0400

I'm was a medic not an infantryman so I will answer from that point of view...NO. Not just no but hell no. As a medic I was trained in every task in the EFMB, and tried to earn it about 4 months after graduation from medic school & less than 1 year after enlisting. I boloed the NBC lane, stuff I had learned about 10 months before. Two of my best friends also boloed out but they both earned the EFMB about 6 months later, after spending those 6 months at the platoon level training almost daily including during FTX's actually practicing the skills they would need to pass. It took all that intense training to pass, I can't see how it would be possible to intensify the training to pass that high standard in one size fits all basic training. I never did earn my EFMB but I tried to perform my soldier-medic skills to that standard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 7:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 07:46:22 -0400

In order to hold the EIB every cadre needs to have earned the badge in order to be an evaluator. Not sure there are enough qualified to even run the EIB. Besides one of the prerequisites are the soldier must have an 11 or 18 series mos. Basic trainees will not be qualified to test until after graduation.

Response by CW4 Don Kite made Sep 12 at 2015 5:46 PM

CW4 Don Kite — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:46:52 -0400

EIB should be trained in all MOS's primarily because everyone participating in the War on Terrorism is "Infantry" and all need the skills to be successful.

Response by SFC David Brunk made Oct 17 at 2015 12:26 PM

SFC David Brunk — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:26:11 -0400

NO! As a formed Drill Sergeant our job was to teach new recruits the BASIC infantry skills for them to join their units. TOO many times I've seen soldiers trained to the test and NOT to the skills they would need. If you train the skills the test becomes easy. There are soo many more SKILLS they will learn after joining their regular units.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Nov 3 at 2017 1:58 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 13:58:11 -0400

Yes. The EIB should first be offered in Infantry OSUT. If the Joes/Janes earn the EIB, they should get a one pay grade promotion up to E4.

Response by MAJ Andrew Ready made Aug 13 at 2018 6:59 AM

MAJ Andrew Ready — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 06:59:36 -0400

Nope