Should Engineers have a Combat Engineer Badge?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:44:58 -0500

Many of my battle buddies and I think that Engineers should have our Combat badge. The reason we feel this way is because when I get into a fire fight or blown up by an IED, I receive the CAB (Combat Action Badge). When a cook, mechanic or any other MOS (other than infantry) receive indirect on the FOB, they get a CAB as well. I'm not taking anything away from any MOS that doesn't leave the FOB, but thats why most 12Bs never wear their CAB unless they have other badges on their ACUs. Thoughts?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 6:39 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 18:39:02 -0500

No, the CAB is bad enough already.  The CIB only exists due to the need to raise the profile of the infantry during World War II.  The same is true for the blue discs and a very short-lived attempt to change their title to "Fighter."  Prior to the CAB, each of the combat arms branches had their own unofficial combat action badges that were not authorized for wear IAW AR 670-1. The CAB was only created in place of a combat action ribbon after the fairness of the being worn in a combat uniform vs. the ribbon being dress only was questioned.  I really wish we had never dreamed it up; it's become a new piece of window dressing for people to put their lives and others at risk unnecessarily so as to ensure promotion. Note: I am not knocking on actual combat action badges or even combat accident badges.  I am referring specifically to CAB hunters who went on repeat convoys until they got hit and hid behind their desks thereafter with a mission accomplished banner.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 7:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:46:42 -0500

I think they should get one. I been an engineer before and I know what its like to be one. They do have a hard task just like the Infantry.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 8:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:13:28 -0500

I hate CAB hunters just as much as anyone else, that's why I rarely wear mine. but I think Engineers would actually be proud to wear a badge that was solely for them instead of wearing the same badge as a non combat MOS. I'm sure the FA, Scouts would feel the same if they had their own badge to wear.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 8:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:20:45 -0500

They get a "Sapper" tab, so why not?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 8:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:36:12 -0500

so why do you think cooks, Mechanic or any other MOS don't go outside the wire?

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2014 9:37 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 21:37:48 -0500

If this lack of recognition is so intolerable, just reenlist for the Infantry.

Response by CPT Brian Willey made Jan 8 at 2014 10:23 PM

CPT Brian Willey — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 22:23:35 -0500

Not everyone gets a CAB for receiving indirect fire. We took 41 (as roughly tracked on a makeshift plywood wall locker) rocket/mortar attacks this past year and no one was awarded a CAB for merely being present during those attacks (nor should we have been, in my opinion.)

As far as MOS-specific combat badges, I have always been okay with the infantry guys getting the CIB. Somewhere, the line must be drawn on ever-diversifying specialty badges before we have a Combat JAG Badge (no disrespect to any attorneys-at-law!) Where that line is, it seems, will always be debated.

Anyone take issue with the Expert Infantry Badge or Expert Field Medical Badge? Seems a similar argument.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made Jan 8 at 2014 10:38 PM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 22:38:40 -0500

They should be authorized to hang an M81 initiator from the breast pocket.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2014 7:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:59:18 -0400

I think we are losing focusing why the awards are there for. It was not I did this badge. It was that these did the most and paid the price for it badge. It is the same case for the Air Medal. We fight but the infantry always pay the heaviest price for freedom. That is why they are there. And they didn't ask for a badge either. It was given to them for their sacrifice.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2014 9:54 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:54:00 -0400

To be honest, you guys are the only ones in the army that have your own buttons. Let not be too greedy here.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2014 5:11 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 05:11:31 -0400

Get over this already. I processed many CIBs while in Afghanistan and over HALF were from IDF, not actual direct fire. While our FSC Convoys came under DIRECT fire every time they left the COP/FOB.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2014 7:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:28:10 -0400

So you think mechanics don't leave the FOB huh? Ludicrous!!

Regardless of the fact that the title is not a "combat MOS" I can tell you that I have spent numerous hours outside the wire. Some doing recovery of disabled vehicles, some repairing broken down vehicles, and some doing foot patrols along side the Infantry guys in Baghdad.

One deployment with an Armored Cav (DIV Cav) and two deployments with Mechanized Infantry.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Sep 3 at 2014 8:52 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 08:52:59 -0400

No, while they may perform many dangerous missions outside the wire, they are no more "special" than the many other MOSs that perform their own dangerous missions. Their is a reason, although debatable today, why the CIB was initially created during WWII, it was to honor the hard life of the Infantryman during combat. It has been a long, bitter, and seemingly unfair award as viewed by the other Combat Arms MOSs over the years, especially since DS/DS. The CAB was initially created to be awarded to the other Combat Arms MOSs to recognize the hardships that they too experience during times of conflict, but with the non-linear battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, it became somewhat of an award given to any and all personnel who had experienced any sort of "combat". Like many Army awards, it has been/was abused and handed out like candy to the point that many view it as just another trinket. Me personally, I view mine with pride for mine was earned and awarded for my actions and those of my tank platoon during the initial combat of OIF.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2014 11:53 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:53:03 -0400

The CAB is enough. There are plenty of maneuver support personnel that leave the FOB. Transportation probably spends as much time on the roads as an infantry unit. I despise these things in the first place. There was a move to make an Expert Armor Badge a while ago too. That was dumb as hell. I find it amusing that we are all supposed to be experts in our field, but when the testing comes out, there is only a 25% pass rate. If we have a CAB, then it's time to do away with the CIB as well. The Armor and the Cavalry spend just as much time in combat with the enemy as the infantry does, and there's no special "make you feel better about your job badge."

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Sep 4 at 2014 7:30 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:30:01 -0400

I think recognition is important and though everyone who serves deserves the utmost respect, someone who is actually involved in 'combat action' does deserve special recognition...

With that said we don't need 50 different medals and such to 'reward' someone who was unlucky or lucky (depending on your point of view) enough to have actually seen direct action.

There should be one badge, again no disrespect to personal who were stuck on a FOB but, one badge regardless of MOS. Distinct badges and such should be restricted to specialty... SF, Airborne... MP (had to throw that in, though the old blizzard was both silly and annoying)

Response by CPT Carolyn "Carrie" Hoza made Sep 5 at 2014 12:21 PM

CPT Carolyn "Carrie" Hoza — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:21:46 -0400

Awards/Medals = overrated. I have such a bitter taste in my mouth over medals & the CAB. In 2004 our Company was told that only 5% of the company would be awarded Bronze Stars. That 5% made up the officers, Truckmaster, PSGs, and that's about it - Yay, I get one for leadership (note sarcasm), but my soldiers who risked life & limb jumping into burning 915s weren't worthy?! It devalues my Bronze Star, because I know in my heart of hearts that I have men that fought by my side that truly deserved better. The CAB, while it was an honor to receive in 2006, now I think that it has been over used & presented w/o true Combat Action. I agree that just because a mortar goes off on your installation does NOT define you as a COMBAT soldier. MOS, gender, etc. does not define you as a combat soldier. The action you saw, your performance under actual fire/ied/road side bombs... THAT is what makes you a combat soldier. A mortar touching ground a mile away doesn't cut it.

Response by MSG Donald Onley made Apr 15 at 2015 9:09 PM

MSG Donald Onley — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:09:01 -0400

I would like to comment on the Combat Engineer Badge when I was in Vietnam we were attached out to just about Infantry battalion in the 3rd Brigade 25th Infantry Division when we were sweeping the roads I did not see the infantry get off that dam APC's. When we were in a firefight the infantry was dam glade to see us also I have walked the point more than a few times when we had to blow mines boob traps we did not see the infantry around. So don't tell me were not in combat. I will give credit where credit is due I was very close to my infantry Brothers. I guess you must have been talking about the Construction Engineers. Also we were attached to the Arvin Rangers for over 30 days at a time. we were very proud to have been a Combat Engineer so if you think that Combat Engineers do not see combat well you all can Kiss My Ass and yes we do need our own dam badge.

Don Onley
MSG US Army (Retired)
65th Combat Engineer Battalion

P.S. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Response by SSG Nick Tramontano made Jul 12 at 2015 1:05 AM

SSG Nick Tramontano — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 01:05:47 -0400

We have a CAB to cover all non Infantry or medical. There is a CEB but it is an unofficial badge.

Response by SFC Terry Logsdon made Dec 17 at 2015 6:39 AM

SFC Terry Logsdon — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:39:15 -0500

brian I enter the militart in feb 1970 and retired in jun 1992. the combat badge was kicked around the entire time I was in now I hear that they have the sapper tab but you must attend a traing course which is open to all mos,es. I donk think you will every see a badge and the reason I say that is that it would take away from the eod badge

Response by CPL Timothy Coffey made Feb 28 at 2016 8:49 PM

CPL Timothy Coffey — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 20:49:14 -0500

Not sure how they operate these days, but as an electrician in 84th in 1986-1990 we were just engineers, and there was another combat engineer group. I spent most my time building, and renovating.

Response by SP5 Chuck Andersen made Aug 2 at 2016 2:50 PM

SP5 Chuck Andersen — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:50:18 -0400

I totally agree, we saw action but not an everyday basis. But still we were in harms way many times

Response by SP5 Dam Spencer made Nov 2 at 2017 9:06 PM

SP5 Dam Spencer — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:06:51 -0400

Well, I know we did not earn Cibs
In the nam, but being on mine sweep in 1969 In I corp (19th combat) was dangerous, tense ,
And sometimes deadly.
12 brovo was no picnic

Response by SP5 Trinidad Loera Jr made Jan 22 at 2018 1:24 PM

SP5 Trinidad Loera Jr — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 13:24:38 -0500

Response by SGT Larry Queen made Jan 24 at 2018 7:39 PM

SGT Larry Queen — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 19:39:15 -0500

It doesn’t matter to me if there is a CEB or not. But some would have to admit that it is nice to see the identification of the combat arms MOS’s on the the BDU, DCU, ACU or whatever acronyms the Army can come up with for the ever changing uniform. Everyone deserves respect from one another while in service. The CAB is a good blanket badge if awarded properly. Some like to be distinguished by the badge because we all know that unit patches are more or less non existent.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 25 at 2018 1:24 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 13:24:23 -0500

I am for it, and I was never an Engineer. But I also think there should be a Combat Artillery Badge as well as one for Cav/Armor. But I think I am in the minority with that.

Response by SPC Larry Brammer made Apr 21 at 2018 9:13 PM

SPC Larry Brammer — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 21:13:17 -0400

I was a 12B2P ln Vietnam in 1968 & 69. I served with C co. 1/50 mech. Infinity, in the 173rd. I served right beside 11B's. I did all the things they did and more. I'm the one who set the charges in tunnels and bunkers. I even gave them C4 so they could heat their food. When tsf. I was right there with'em. When I first got back, it didn't mean anything to me. Now, I think I earned it. But I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over it...AIRBORNE !

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2018 12:15 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 00:15:19 -0400

Nope, that's a slippery slope. You will have everyone wanting a unique badge. If you want something to stand out you can get a sapper tab.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 11 at 2019 2:20 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 14:20:40 -0400

Tried and struck down after WWII and Vietnam. https://www.legion.org/stories/other/where-credit-due

Where credit is due

I believe it's time we honor all combat vets by drafting new legislation to create adequate awards for their service outside the wire. I believe that in the United States of America we take pride in our uniformed services and servicemembers. In the past the United States Army has had unofficial traditions that have grown to become apart of the the Army's overall identity. An example of this is the beret, in its many colors, coming and going...

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 12 at 2019 11:45 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 11:45:57 -0400

Be happy with the CAB..... or change MOS to 11 series.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 13 at 2019 2:39 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 14:39:55 -0400

Personally I was against the introduction of the CAB. Not because I didn't think it was a good idea to recognize non Infantry Troops who engaged in combat ( because I was one), but because the original concept renderings were way to similar to the WWII German Close Combat badge. In fact the CAB we wear today still has the same elements, the bayonet and grenade with oak leaves, but the position and shape is altered enough that it no longer looks like a Nazi holdover.

Response by SPC Jeremy Babson made Jan 7 at 2020 7:26 AM

SPC Jeremy Babson — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 07:26:19 -0500

The whole badge thing is dumb IMO. As the other guy pointed out it has become a trophy. Most of my unit didn't even bother doing the paperwork for the cab. Our new 1sg tried to convince me to do it when my old platoon Sgt was using me as a witness on his paper application affidavit ( whatever). I was one of the only ones left from that particular engagement. He was trophy hunting and I didn't give a damn about wearing the CAB. I know where I was and it isn't necessary for me to prove it to others. I had a two minute conversation with my rear D 1st Sgt about it and basically told him I know where I was and I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Amy life using the movies. There should be no medal for being in firefights unless you die saving someones ass. Trophy hunters want glory but that's not what the job is about. Take care of your buddy and train hard. Everyone comes home.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2020 4:06 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:06:33 -0500

I earned the Army Aviation Badge and 6 awards of the Air Medal. I received one Air Medal. Fast forward to 2006 when I connected with my former immediate superior, a cowardly senior captain (retired colonel) who spent the bulk of his time in the orderly room. He was a direct commission type. He plagiarized my flight log and awarded himself 3 Air Medals (which happened to coincide with my flights) and the Army Aviation Badge. I don’t think he flew more than 3 missions. Point being, I volunteered for that job in part to be allowed to wear those wings. It’s bugged me for 50 years.