Should enlisted members be required to have college?

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:43:48 -0500

The Air Force has had it in thier AFI on Enlisted Force Structure for years that enlisted members must pursue on and off duty education and had recently made an Associates Degree is a requirement for even testing for E8.

What are your thoughts? Would this be a good thing for other branches to adopt?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 7:48 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:48:52 -0500

I don't think so. I do think that certain technical fields would benefit if Senior NCOs got a degree related to the MOS field. But any degree just because the Air Force says so?
No.
The last thing we need is a bunch of degree mills making people think they are more qualified because they did an online course to get an Associates Degree in Liberal Arts.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 15 at 2015 8:05 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 20:05:19 -0500

A side note, an Associate's Degree has been a defacto requirement for E8 for over a decade but became a formal requirement this year.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 9:45 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:45:38 -0500

I think it's great in some ways and can be damaging in others. Traditionally, Enlisted did not need a degree, while Officers required just the Bachelor's to get their commission and that was all. The Air Force now frowns upon Officers having anything less than a Bachelor's and, as you stated, is requiring the CCAF for E-8 and above. Although I think education is important, many have taken the Enlisted route to secure a rewarding, good-paying career without the need for continued education. In the words of many: "college isn't for everyone." On the other hand, the mandatory CCAF is not difficult to get, so I am for it. I feel that it works well in the Air Force, since we are an extremely technical branch, known for its education and training programs. But I fear it may not work in other branches. I think that the Air Force needs to stop at the CCAF requirement for Enlisted, however. Mandating a Bachelor's degree to make E-8 or E-9 will weaken the force, in my opinion, and will blur the distinction between leadership traits of Officers and Senior Enlisted. Great topic of discussion!

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 4:57 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 04:57:46 -0500

To be blunt the mandatory CCAF degree really is more about the individuals ability to show some definitive self improvement more than any real education. After tech school most people require 7 classes to get a CCAF, math, English, history, speech, and two general studies. That much education is not going to make huge impact in the individual but does quantifiably show that they can complete something.

Making further education goals become difficult because it would require the AF to foot the bill for that furthered education. We are already seeing that TA will not pay for things not directly related to your job so making degrees a requirement is a slippery slope.

Oh and the CCAF does not offer any advanced degrees, if it did then yes they would be required for SNCOs.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 7:35 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 07:35:23 -0500

Although there is nothing wrong with trying to improve oneself. And a college degree is not for everyone. I don't think the Air Force should over emphasize a college degree for enlisted. Then you would be blurring the line between senior enlisted and officers. Also if the Air Force went back to having Warrent Officer ranks again. Then our SNCO could concentrate more on leadership roles then having to be the ones who are so technical in their AFSC. Then we would fall in line more with the other branches.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 7:50 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 07:50:20 -0500

If you are in a leadership position or want to have that highest marking possible on a performance report/board then yes. No reason to expect some sort of authority or to be labeled one of the best if you don't have college under your belt, in addition to your training and volunteer work, etc.

I mean an associates degree is extremely easy to accomplish, especially if you are going in for E-8.

Response by SFC Richard M. made Jan 16 at 2015 7:55 AM

SFC Richard M. — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 07:55:03 -0500

As a prior recruiter, I saw that the vast majority of kids who joined the military did so for the college fund. They had all the desire in the world to do their duty and see the world all while earning their degree (or at least the money for it).

However, as a Platoon Sergeant, I saw that once the kids got out of Basic/AIT, their vision changed. Out of their parents house, they began to truly experience the real world and everything was new and exciting. Most still wanted school, but their priorities had obviously changed. In the end, most who join end up getting at least some college while they're in, and most of the rest get it once they get out. But to make it a requirement is wrong and would scare off the vast majority of potential recruits. Either way, no matter what, I always encouraged all of my Soldiers and NCO's to pursue a degree of some sort.

I say let them get it when they're ready. If they are never ready, so be it. They still have the honor and respect gained when they raised their right hand and swore in.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 8:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 08:32:16 -0500

I am a believer is civilian education I have 5 degrees including a MBA all paid for by the Army. With that being said I do not support forcing people to get degrees. First because college is not for everyone. Also because if everyone has it will no longer be special. To be blunt the military is going through attrition and promotions are at a snails pace. This is how I remain competitive.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Jan 16 at 2015 9:30 AM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:30:38 -0500

I'm a huge supporter of education. In fair disclosure, I went from high school diploma to a master's degree while on Active Duty. However, I do not believe it should be mandatory, and though my personal opinion is service members should do it
In many cases, military life is viewed as an alternative to college and appeals to people for many reasons aside from education. Whether it's training, adventure, discipline, or patriotism, you shouldn't be forced to go to college to obtain these. Doing so may, and likely will, stifle recruiting and retention efforts

Response by COL Ted Mc made Jan 16 at 2015 2:09 PM

COL Ted Mc — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:09:11 -0500

One does sometimes wonder about the Air Force. I mean, traditionally all pilots were officers and that was because those who "rode" were easier to train and made better pilots than those who didn't (and since those who 'rode" were in the "upper classes" you couldn't expect "Gentlemen" to be mere "soldiers"). Of course, when times got tight, then the "enlisted" were allowed to become pilots (but still weren't allowed to mess, or live, with the REAL pilots).

So, please help me out here, is there a requirement for any specific type of degree or would a B.A., followed by an M.Div., and then a PhD (Sumerian History) suffice to get one into the O-9+ club?

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jan 16 at 2015 5:23 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:23:18 -0500

I disagree more than words can reflect...
As an Infantryman, on the old East-West German border, I fond myself deployed more often than not. From 1984 to 1988 we logged in over 300 days deployed on maneuvers or patrolling the border each year.

Give a military person something for the college hours, reflected currently in the US Army by giving extra points on the promotion board. But do NOT require a college education for someone who is already demonstrating MOSQ (Skills Qualification).

The idea that some fields have more time to do this should NOT keep other MOS's from advancing merely because one job speciality has more FOB time, Garrison time, or simply more down time to dedicate to this.

That being said, I have an MBA with a 4.0 GPA
I worked EXTREMELY hard, dedicating time each night despite deployments and time away from my wife and children. I was always very irritated to see other military personnel in my classes who clearly had more time for leisurely activities than I did.

What amazed me was having my degree when my 1LT and sometimes even my CPT had not quite completed theirs.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 5:58 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:58:55 -0500

I am an education guy (literally, I work in a university as an academic advisor, lol), but I for sure believe that not everyone needs a college education. I don't think enlisted members should be REQUIRED, but rather ENCOURAGED to seek out college. That way those individuals who are so motivated can take advantage of the education opportunities and those that aren't won't.

It will prevent the system from getting bogged down with people who really don't want to be there in the first place. Additionally, any schooling should be something technical (preferably for that SM's specialty) or some type of leadership studies (management, business, etc.).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 10:05 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:05:33 -0500

If the other services had an equivalent to the CCAF then I could easily understand having a degree requirement.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 4:25 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 04:25:24 -0500

I'm leaning towards SNCOs needing some college. Preferably a ba/bs and definitely an associates. Once make e7 you're advising officers, on staff, and you can be a flight NCO or a supt for a small squadron. You should be able to communicate effectively at those levels. I won't forget when a MSgt I have a lot respect for was helping an Amn with their homework and told them, "you have a 100% chance of getting heads if you flip a coin." I took everything he told me from then on with a grain of salt. He has not completed his ccaf.