Should everyone have at least an Associates Degree upon retiring from the military?

2017-03-29T01:10:23-04:00

With all sorts of programs that take military experience and transfer it to college credit, free CLEP tests, free college courses (ASEP for example), tuition assistance, and GI Bills is there really any excuse why people leaving the military should not have at least an Associates Degree upon retiring from the military?

Response by PFC Jonathan Albano made Mar 29 at 2017 1:29 AM

2017-03-29T01:29:20-04:00

Do you mean that SM's should get the degree while in or do you mean that SM's should get the degree because of the experience they have due to the military?

In the case of the first one, I would say not necessarily. Not all SM's are in a position to be able to balance school and duty requirements. From my experience, you often get at least one or two SM's in a unit who are considered the "go to" for a specific function and this can, and tends to, lead to these certain SM's getting swamped. As such, time becomes the issue rather than tuition.

In the case of the second, I wouldn't necessarily say an associates degree, however, technical certifications that civilian employers would recognize the significance of would be an effective way to help SM's better transition their acquired skills from military to civilian life. Often times, the issue with finding decent employment is actually finding an employer who either speaks military or is willing to hear you out on how your experience is related to what they need.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 3:22 AM

2017-03-29T03:22:29-04:00

You should have at least an Assoicates degree to make E7

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 3:41 AM

2017-03-29T03:41:36-04:00

Hell, most SGM's have a batchlors degree and more than not an advance degree.

Response by 1SG Tony Reaux made Mar 29 at 2017 5:06 AM

2017-03-29T05:06:16-04:00

I would have to say at lease a bachelor degree for E7,E8 & E9. promotions without the degree are rare!

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Mar 29 at 2017 7:42 AM

2017-03-29T07:42:39-04:00

No... people should have a degree if they want a degree. Sure there are plenty of resources to utilize to get an education, but what if you don't want an education. I've seen people going to college and they purposefully sign up for the easiest classes so they get high grades in subjects they don't care about and essentially learn nothing.

Some people also might not want a career in anything that requires a degree, so they might opt to go to a trade school instead and get a certificate.

Believe me, I love learning and I think education is it's own reward, but I don't expect everyone to have that same passion for knowledge.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 7:52 AM

2017-03-29T07:52:40-04:00

As PFC Jonathan Albano pointed out, if the question is whether there is no excuse to have gotten one by that point, the answer is "yes." There is no excuse for not having at least earned one in that timeframe with all the opportunities afforded.
If the question is whether they deserve one simply for being in that long, then no.
The relevant trainings are able to convey to the civilian world. Sometimes too much, in fact. For example, there was an issue of medical helicopter pilots as the Vietnam guys were retiring. Back in the day, those companies set minimum flight hours that were often times only attainable by military flying time. High hours. Good for vets, absolutely.
Also goes for highly technical training on the outside like nuclear work, equipment maintenance, security, etc.
But as the business world has been transitioning to Lean, the military is not even on the same planet. Thus, a degree can help shore up that gap. Add in, that an Associates Degree, unless technical, is not sufficiently able to get through the computer software for hiring.
SMs need to make sure they're bringing some education with them when they separate. I love the Infantry like everyone else, but my company hasn't kicked in doors to take out our enemy lately.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Mar 29 at 2017 7:56 AM

2017-03-29T07:56:27-04:00

Well, I'm sure things have changed in the 20+ years since I was in, but even back then I would seriously question the motivation of any SM who didn't have at least an Associates Degree after 20 years. Granted I was Air Force where advanced education was stressed and often a "requirement" for enlisted promotion.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 29 at 2017 8:23 AM

2017-03-29T08:23:44-04:00

yes they should..
And Yes, the Services SHOULD be hiring accredited professors to teach professional military education for enlisted SM. So that when said and done, they have many credits to complete a degree.
Instead we "save money" by assigning military members to teach our own..Mil members that have only most basic training in being an educator (couple of hours in a classroom at best, and then some left seat./ right seat time with an outgoing instructor if lucky) and many times are only educated enough them selfs to hand out POI approved tests, and "correct" a multiple choice answer sheets.

I have the 1059's, NCOERs, award recommendations ect that PROVE only one out of a dozen are capable them selfs at having a chance in assigning and reviewing a written assignment.

With writing now being a components of NCOES, I struggle to understand who and how NCOES school instructors are reviewing and grading these papers tuned in.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 8:32 AM

2017-03-29T08:32:21-04:00

I think everyone should at least have a bachelors or have a plan to obtain a bachelors upon ETS.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Mar 29 at 2017 9:15 AM

2017-03-29T09:15:55-04:00

Retire? One should have a bachelors by then. But that's just my opinion as I highly value education, not just for trade skills, but overall knowledge as well.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 29 at 2017 9:29 AM

2017-03-29T09:29:52-04:00

What happens to those who don't?

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 29 at 2017 9:48 AM

2017-03-29T09:48:51-04:00

After 20+ years of service, I hope one would do better than just an Associates. There is no reason that a Bachelors or higher cannot be attained in that time. That being said, commanders need to ensure that their people have the tools to succeed. When I was in, online schools were in their infancy so it wasn't quite as easy as it is today. Now, there is no reason one cannot earn a degree.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 10:05 AM

2017-03-29T10:05:33-04:00

There is absolutely no excuse not to. If you really want something, you will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse. I finished my bachelors on active duty while deploying multiple times and raising a family in a combat MOS. Now I am working on my Masters Degree in Organizational Leadership with Columbia Southern University while working a full time job and raising a family while in the Army Reserves. It can be done if you really want it!

If you do not utilize the free resources that the military gives you to advance then you have no right to complain when you cant get a job afterwards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2017 10:17 AM

2017-03-29T10:17:41-04:00

I say well maybe, however, after reading some of the comments on here, I am shocked at the idea that everyone should. Is it looked at favorable by selection boards, yes. However not everyone has the opportunities to do so. When speaking of opportunities I mean money and time primarily. Time is one that many cannot dedicate. I for one only have an Associates and am finally able to work rigorously on my BA after 18 years. Constant FTX, TDY's and deployments to the middle of nowhere many times make it very difficult to dedicate 8-16weeks for a class or two. I am using my MGIB top-up now to power through classes before I go back to the line, now that I have a desk job for the next 2 years.

Service Members have to be willing to put in the work, but sometimes that is simply not enough, those of us that don't go home every night, are held to the same standards as those that do when it comes to professional development, and we are generally the true SME's of our field. My last deployment I worked with an individual who was a peer, and all he cared about was getting his schooling done, his work suffered and caused others to have to cover down on him, his excuse was "o well, I'm more important than the mission", I really wanted to put a hurt on him.... Any way's you have to balance it, but I could never put myself over the mission I get paid to do, and all that I have sacrificed may be in vain, but I believe its what is missing from a lot of leaders now a days.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Mar 29 at 2017 10:21 AM

2017-03-29T10:21:18-04:00

Beyond membership in the "I've Got a Degree" club, is there really any universal reason for people to invest significant time and money in acquiring a college degree?

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 29 at 2017 10:45 AM

2017-03-29T10:45:57-04:00

It all depends on what you want to do in your next life. Americans tend to overhype the necessity of college at the expense of great technical skill opportunities. All retiring MILs have the same question set to answer in which education is a tool, not an end. I am going to be this old when I punch out. When I turn say 60, I want to be in this situation. When I can't/don't want to work anymore, I need to have these assets to live decently. So the answers will be in defining what it will take to get from Point A to Point B. One thing for sure is not to be casual about tossing the doors college can open; same as trade/technical. MILs have a means to obtain college success that most Americans don't. Do you take the Red Pill or the Blue Pill?

Response by Sam Carter made Mar 29 at 2017 4:54 PM

2017-03-29T16:54:08-04:00

Yes it is very important. I have attached a picture of a graduation challenge coin we did recently for the marines.

Response by CPL Beth Allsop made Apr 5 at 2017 1:51 AM

2017-04-05T01:51:32-04:00

While I was in the Army I was with a particular unit that spent most of its time in the field. I was able to get one class completed but couldn't attend any others due to our random alerts.
I would have to say that it varies upon the MOS of the individual, if you have field training and 12 he shifts you won't have much time to take courses.
After my ETS I did receive an Associates of Science and 2 Bachelors degrees but again that was completed while working full-time.
I think everyone has to go at there own pace.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Apr 5 at 2017 2:05 PM

2017-04-05T14:05:33-04:00

Some additional food for thought about seeing collegiate degrees as the One True Way for success in life:

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Response by MSgt Donald Davis made Jun 21 at 2017 6:41 AM

2017-06-21T06:41:49-04:00

One could argue college isn’t for everyone. However, we need to consider the military career impact of pursuing a college degree. All branches of the military have in effect placed a priority on education related to promotion. After 22+ years of service in the USAF, I can testify to the fact that an education is important, if not for career opportunities after retirement but certainly for promotion potential while serving. Years ago, military members faced significant challenges finding the time to pursue off-duty education while balancing work and other obligations. However, with the introduction of online learning, many of those challenges have been all but removed and made taking college courses much easier. Therefore, if a military member is interested in maximizing their career opportunities, then yes take classes!

Response by SGT Ryan Lawson made Jan 29 at 2018 5:19 PM

2018-01-29T17:19:15-05:00

Argosy University Twin Cities gives life experience credits, takes JSTs, accepts VA benefits, and gives 20% deal for active, reserve, or vets. Has accredited 100% online too! Associates-Doctoral.

Response by MGySgt Clint Pearman made Aug 13 at 2018 3:17 AM

2018-08-13T03:17:19-04:00

I am in advocate of education and would have to say if you want a degree there is no way on the planet you could not complete a degree after retiring at 20 years. You can complete a college degree on an iPhone today. But like that Cpl said above they only need to get a degree if they want to degree.