Should Gen. Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson be removed from the Army War College?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:53:08 -0500

Washington Times story asks this question. What is your $.02 ?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/17/robert-e-lee-and-stonewall-jackson-tributes-face-a/?page=1

U.S. Army mulls wiping out memory of Robert E. Lee, ‘Stonewall’ Jackson

The U.S. Army War College, which molds future field generals, has begun discussing whether it should remove the portraits of Confederate generals, including Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 18 at 2013 1:55 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:55:59 -0500

Why? It is part of the Army, everthing can be used to learn from, just my thoughts

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 1:59 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:59:23 -0500

I feel that even thought they were confederate Generals, they were outstanding Soldiers. They were also Americans; in which our Civil War is very important in U.S. history. Thier military accomplishments were very outstanding. They were very impressive generals that developed many strategic military ideas that we still use today.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 18 at 2013 2:22 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:22:01 -0500

They were graduates from West Point, regardless of future affiliations, they are WP alumni that became recognized on the national stage for bravery and leadership. Their association with the Confederacy is as much about the will of the people and the legality under which the Federals assumed control where the states felt it was their place. An argument that is waged even today. The concept of following orders, legal or illegal. That the Confederacy lost should not take away from the choices these men made or their reasons for those choices.
They represent more than anything else, Clausewitz's "War is a continuation of politics by other means" which remains a vital lesson for WP cadets.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 4:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:10:15 -0500

They most definitely should NOT be removed! Beyond the fact that, as pointed out by CW2 Evans, these men are graduates of West Point and were, arguably, two of the best tacticians of there time, they are an integral part of our countries history and our military heritage.Arlington National Cemetary, the most hallowed military ground in this country, is built on GEN Robert E. Lee's property!The unnamed individual in the article who questioned the inclusion of Confederate General's portraits claims that they should be removed because they are somehow 'anti-American':  "[Lee] was certainly not good for the nation.  This is the guy we faced on the battlefield whose entire purpose in life was to destroy the nation as it was then conceived."  I would find it hard to believe that this was his actual mindset but regardless of GEN Lee's personal feelings, his relevence and importance to any study of U.S. history cannot be denied and removing his portrait from an institution that specializes in teaching this topic is patently absurd.  We may as well take down the portraits of Genghis Khan and Hitler from every history museum because "they were not nice people."

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 7:57 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:57:56 -0500

The politics of the winning/losing side should not take away from either of these men's patriotism and leadership. Perhaps some people don't understand that before they were Confederate generals they were United States Army Officers who were both quite distinguished for their leadership during the Mexican-American War. Both men were highly respected by both sides throughout the Civil War and their legacy lives on in our teachings today.

As far as patriotism is concerned, let's not forget the Gen. Lee was the son of Gen Henry "Light Horse" Lee and nephew to Richard Henry Lee (A signer of the Declaration of Independence). I think his heart was always where he believed it to be right.

Response by TSgt Phillip L. made Dec 18 at 2013 8:10 PM

TSgt Phillip L. — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:10:23 -0500

Absolutely not. Confederate soldiers were still a part of this country. The war and it's soldiers are a part of our history, it may not be our brightest time...but you don't erase it. In reality, those who made the difficult decision to secede from the union and fight for the rights of the states....made a huge sacrifice. Both were graduates from West Point, and both were generals. Perhaps we should remove the images of our founding fathers who owned slaves....because we now recognize that to be wrong? Did they not still found the country? We've got to keep our various services' history from being marred by current political opinion. Keep our heritage intact, take the good with the bad. How many of our current leaders will have their records examined by future generations...and their pictures removed? Probably more than the civil war era ones.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 8:15 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:15:20 -0500

If we could just wipe people off the history books then why do we even call them HISTORY Books ?  I agree they should NOT be removed from our history books nor should their Portraits be removed from the academy as the article was talking about.  Part of ending the war was the mutual understanding that the North & South COULD come together as ONE country again and this is just more divisive HOT garbage. Yes, it did take time but now we are going to the far extreme in the other direction.  Just my two cents..  it is HISTORY if we allow people to remove everything they do not like... what would we have left to learn from in the future.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 18 at 2013 8:42 PM

CMC Robert Young — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:42:06 -0500

What sort of insanity would lead anybody to even think of that. I get the whole Civil War thing, but a deeper grasp of history shows these two served our country honorably and bravely long before the Civil War, and in Lee's case, he is stellar citizen who conducted his later life with an eye on healing the country. DO NOT TAKE THEM DOWN.

People should read some history before proffering ideas for the rest of us.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2013 6:22 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 18:22:10 -0500

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/banner/article.cfm?id=3289

See MG Cucolo's official response.

Response by SGT James Warden made Dec 19 at 2013 9:19 PM

SGT James Warden — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:19:44 -0500

Robert E. Lee was a graduate of West Point in 1829. He never wanted secession and was torn over the war. He was offered a Union army but felt he had to follow his family in Va. and secede. Stonewall Jackson another West Point graduate from the class of 1846 was and still is considered one of the War of Northern Aggression's most talented tacticians and commanders. Both of these incredible commanders served in the Union army before the war began and both served with distinction. Their loyalty to family led them to the southern cause. They both fought brilliantly and many of their battles and tactics are still studied and taught in military academies world wide.

Now 148 years later revisionists believe that these celebrated and admired generals should have their portraits and statues taken down because they fought for the Confederate States of America. Will this lead to renaming our army posts ie Ft Hood, Ft Lee, Ft Stewart, Ft Bragg? What might have happened to America if those men hadn't chosen the side they did and fought the way they did for our officers to learn from them? What victories might we have lost without them doing what they did? To the revisionists I say leave history alone. It has already been written and regardless of what you do to erase it we the students of history won't forget and we will teach future generations of these great men in our past.

Response by SPC William Wambolt made Dec 20 at 2013 11:59 PM

SPC William Wambolt — Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:59:58 -0500

The memory of all civil war soldiers should be honored and respected, regardless of what side they fought for. They had strong convictions and acted upon them and the country turned out to be better for it. The United States started as an experiment, always has been and will be. No matter where we or our families came from we are all belong to the American family. History should always show an accurate account and never be changed unless it can be proved to be wrong. There is no place for revisionists in U.S. History or military history.

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Sep 11 at 2014 9:46 PM

LTC Barry Hull — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:46:11 -0400

Once again, we try to rewrite history. I can't fathom the justification with this. It's over. The war is over. Get over it.

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Sep 11 at 2014 9:54 PM

LTC Barry Hull — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:54:40 -0400

Another thought. By that line of thought, we should remove the lessons learned form every General or leader who opposed us. So, we should omit Hienz Guderian, father of the German Blitzkrieg, ancestor of our own AirLand Battle Doctrine and our current doctrine. yeah, lets pretend he didn't exist and go back to Napoleonic tactics. Wait, we don't like Napoleon either. crap, lets just run around like a bunch of wild Indians... wait, I mean Native Americans...no that might offend someone, too. Crap, lets just disband the military and forget the whole thing. It's offensive, except when its on the defense. LET POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RULE THE DAY.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 11 at 2014 10:01 PM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 22:01:11 -0400

Yes, we should absolutely remove them. We have to be VERY careful to avoid any history which may feel uncomfortable.

(heavy sarcasm intended)

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 12 at 2014 12:02 AM

SPC David S. — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:02:08 -0400

With all do respect sir, no. Both served together as commissioned officers in the Mexican–American War. As to their participation in the Civil War they where still Americans albeit confederate. While it was called the Confederate States of America it was never recognized as a sovereign state by any nations. The Civil War is a part of America's history and that history should be inclusive.

Additionally President Ford in 1975 signed a joint resolution to restore posthumously full rights of citizenship to General R. E. Lee. As this was specific to GEN Lee this was a final amends to pardon all and put this behind us.

I suggest that the War College should be more focused on developing strategies in combating transnational insurgencies than what should be hung in the gallery.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d094:SJ00023:|TOM:/bss/d094query.html|

Bill Summary & Status Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 12 at 2014 12:28 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:28:29 -0400

Confederates who took up arms, but served honorably, were granted a general pardon by Lincoln (except for Lee but I think this was because he took Lee's defection personally, particularly after he had offered him command of the Army of the Potomac). As such, while we do not officially recognize their deeds during the war with honors and medals, they WERE brought back into the fold after the war. If we are going to take down those statues, are we going to rename posts in the south named after Confederate generals?

Response by CPL Kyle James made Sep 13 at 2014 6:37 PM

CPL Kyle James — Sat, 13 Sep 2014 18:37:47 -0400

At least Lee and Stonewall gave their names, which is a lot more than this "offended" idiot. If we are going to wipe out the memory of Lee and Stonewall, why dont we wipe out the memory of slavery too?