Should I appeal this award downgrade?

2017-11-03T11:28:20-04:00

So, I'm a bit pissed off right now as I just discovered that my previous unit gave me an AAM as my PCS award. For background, 3 years I ran the Battalion's Combatives program by myself (which actually served units from the whole Korean peninsula, from Area I to IV). I was the only instructor the whole time I was there, with periodic unofficial assistance from battle buddies when they could spare time. I worked alone in the building as an E5/E6 with just about zero oversight because that was the trust I earned. Without going into too many details, I conducted many Basic and Tactical courses, assisted with training for other units, and ran and assisted with numerous tournaments (even helping stand up the USAG Daegu Quarterly tournaments). All this isn't even including my additional duties (BN NEO Rep, UPL, Master Driver, EOL).

The award was submitted as an ARCOM (with my recommender wanting to submit an MSM, but pretty much knowing that would get shot down due to my rank, and I personally don't think I did enough to warrant one), but it was downgraded, and I'm pretty sure I know why. First, my award was submitted late. It was submitted a month before I was to leave and was told that I would need a letter of lateness. Ok, cool, I know the drill, been there done that. I accepted that I would just have them mail it to me. So I'm at my new unit, and inquire to my old one about my award, as I'd heard nothing. Get it in the email, and notice the downgrade. Not at the BDE level, not at the BN level, AT THE COMPANY LEVEL. It never even made it to the BDE Commander. Not only that, but the date on the award was 2 MONTHS later than it was originally submitted. It seems to me like they sat on it, realized it then tried to fast track an AAM instead of explaining to the BDE CDR why it was so late. I was under the impression that even if it were to be recommended for a downgrade, it would still need to go the approval authority for the level of initial award recommendation and they would take the subordinate commander's recommendation into consideration before approving the downgrade or not. Am I incorrect? I apologize for the rant, but I feel robbed. Should I appeal the award? Suck it up, drink water, and drive on? I'd be less pissed if the write up was bad or if it actually made it to the BDE commander and he made the decision, but seeing as if the company and bn tried to rush it through.... I dunno. All advice appreciated.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 3 at 2017 11:34 AM

2017-11-03T11:34:53-04:00

No,
It is what it is, anyone could have put you in for something higher, for what ever reason they did not.
Was a higher award recommendation downgraded?
Based on what you wrote, no appeal is possible..

if however, you have new information, then you can.
https://www.apd.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r600_8_22.pdf

1–16. Reconsideration or appeal of previous award recommendations
"Recommendations are submitted for reconsideration or appeal only if new, substantive, and material information is furnished"
And your within 1 year

r600_8_22.pdf

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Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 11:45 AM

2017-11-03T11:45:24-04:00

If was written in the remarks the reason for the downgrade, got it, I'll take the hit and move on. But there was nothing. Everyone in the unit, the battalion, hell many people around the peninsula knew how much I did and I would constantly get compliments and accolades from those same people. But when award time comes around, it gets sat on and then it suddenly gets fast tracked through with a downgrade and no explanation. All signs point to "Oh crap, SSG Showes' award is late, we'll just put if through as an AAM since he PCS'd already anyway and to avoid explaining the lateness to the BDE CDR." That's just my outlook, though.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 12:23 PM

2017-11-03T12:23:56-04:00

Looking at the award again, I noticed some errors.
It's signed and recommend downgraded by the Co and Bn commanders, but the BDE commander's signature block is there, but not marked approved/disapproved or signed. Basically insinuating he hadn't seen it. Then in the orders data at the bottom, it's signed by the BDE adjutant with the APPROVED award being an ARCOM. WTF?! The attached certificate is an AAM, though. I just emailed my old S1 because this just got even more confusing....

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Nov 3 at 2017 12:55 PM

2017-11-03T12:55:01-04:00

The best advice I can give you is to drive on. I don't know all the regs when it comes to awards. I probably should because I'm an E-8 but I don't. Nor do I care to. That's what S1 is for. However, I do think its pretty messed up that you worked your tail off and that's how they recognized you. Being in Korea for 3 straight years deserves at a minimum an ARCOM. We don't have problems like that in SF. Maybe its time to reassess your future. Its failures like these, why I left the regular Army. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 3 at 2017 1:14 PM

2017-11-03T13:14:31-04:00

You're not wrong for feeling as you do, so I can't fault your ranting, but take a step back for a moment; remember a PCS award isn't even obligatory. Were you robbed? I donno. Maybe. Take the win anyway, even if a fair argument for an award higher than an AAM can be made. Let it go, and don't let it burn you up.

I never got into any trouble, did a couple of minor high-speed things for my last AD unit--nothing super special, but I was the "right place, right time, right uniform" kind of soldier who did as expected, and my ETS award (AAM) paperwork got lost or the dog ate it or whatever happened to it, but in the end, I got nothing. When my squad leader asked about redoing the paperwork he was told it won't happen. That's it. End of story. Irritating sure, but one moves on.

People aren't always recognized for what they earn--it happens to everyone eventually--but sometimes they are. Put the old unit behind you, and carry your skillset forward to your new unit.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Nov 3 at 2017 2:17 PM

2017-11-03T14:17:55-04:00

Can you appeal an award? I think you just just move on.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 3 at 2017 3:08 PM

2017-11-03T15:08:56-04:00

I feel your pain, Sergeant. How about NOT getting an EOT award? I left Fort Hood seven years ago; an EOT award was submitted by my supervisor in a timely manner. Since I was leaving Fort Hood before the award could be awarded to me, I was told that it would be forwarded to my HOR, since I was leaving the military...nothing became of it. Time will heal, then we move on. Besides, are we really serving our country and others for the awards? I have a good military history and no one can take that from me.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 10:54 PM

2017-11-03T22:54:42-04:00

I totally get your frustration. I do. But, while you got less than what you should have (IMHO)....at least you got a PCS award since they aren't mandatory to give. Hell, I have yet to receive a PCS award. Take it. Drive on. Move forward. Don't look back.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2017 11:00 PM

2017-11-03T23:00:46-04:00

On it's face, it looks like you were collateral damage in a paperwork tar pit.
It sucks. And it probably will not be the last time.
What is doubly insulting is that the perpetrators of this are the ones who know you best, in your own company.
Most likely they simply lost track of it and "found" it when you inquired.
Now I don't know what your brigade policies are, but you need to work within them. Any kind of outside the CoC redress will likely not yield a positive result.

I will say this: be proud. You did good work, and many of those with whom you served saw it and benefited from it. It is a great thing to leave an assignment knowing that you made a difference.
At the end of the day, how many of those kinds of awards you collect will be what really is in your shadowbox.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Nov 4 at 2017 11:21 AM

2017-11-04T11:21:40-04:00

The best you can do for yourself and your future subordinates or employees is learn a lesson from this experience. Make sure all the awards for your subordinates are turned in early. Follow up with your organization's awards office to make sure it gets to the next higher headquarter on time. You'll get to enjoy seeing people who work for you get the awards they deserve.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Nov 4 at 2017 1:14 PM

2017-11-04T13:14:20-04:00

If I start of pointing out the I have, shall we say, "philosophical differences" with the concept of "PCS awards", I think you can predict what my answer will be.
Be pissed all you want at your orderly room staff for their suspected administrative incompetence, but accept the award as recognition for going above and beyond the expected (NOT minimum) standard for a soldier in your position. Just like "thank you"s , meritorious awards will rarely match your perception of what you earned or achieved -- some will seem like not much more than bare acknowledgment, while others will seem over the top. In the log run, it tends to average out.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 11:39 AM

2017-11-05T11:39:47-05:00

I did 2 years in Korea, PCS award was supposed to be an ARCOM, it ended up being an AAM. I was still maxed on award points for E-5 and E-6 promotions. It has not affected my career in any way. Drive on, it'll just be a distant memory to laugh about with battles over beers later on down the line. I have also PCSed and not gotten a PCS award so at least you got something.

Response by SP6 Randy Gaul made Nov 5 at 2017 11:40 AM

2017-11-05T11:40:54-05:00

Only award I every got in my 20 years of service thatI cared about were my jump wings.

Response by SSG Bill Coggin made Nov 5 at 2017 11:49 AM

2017-11-05T11:49:15-05:00

Not that I’m trying to one up you, but sometimes circumstances can screw you up with awards that you feel you should have earned but don’t get them. Unfortunately I spent the last 3 years of my 20 year career in Wounded Warrior Battalion at Fort Bragg. Not only did I not get a PCS award, I didn’t get an ETS award either. For all the work and time that I put into my career, at the end I was just set on a shelf to be relegated to nothingness. When I was originally injured in Iraq there was talk of a recommendation for a Bronze Star; in the end, nothing. Before the injury, I was slotted for a promotion to SFC, but there’s no use for a broken soldier. Be glad for the AAM and carry on. I’m pretty sure you deserved an MSM but things happen. Good luck with the rest of your career. You seem like a squared away soldier so I’m sure there are more opportunities for you to be recognized and awarded accordingly.

Response by SPC Dale St. Pierre made Nov 5 at 2017 11:51 AM

2017-11-05T11:51:25-05:00

At least you got something, I medically retired, and got 0, pcs from Fort Stewart, 0. Didn't get into any trouble, worked hard, even above what was asked of me /us. So at least you got an award.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-11-05T11:56:05-05:00

F*** that Staff, demand answers. If you just let this go, that unit will continue to screw over, your Brothers-in-Arms. Ask for an open door policy phone call with your former company commander. If you don’t get any immediate action, I’m talking two weeks tops, ask for an open door policy phone call with your former battalion commander, and onward up the chain of command until you get the answers you deserve. The unfortunate short answer, and what all NCOs need to understand, is that the army in general, really does not give a damn about you, unless you’re wearing bar, are eligible for a diamond or you're an attractive female at bare minimum. Similar things like this happened to me early in my career, the only action you can take that’s going to make any difference, is to be proactive in writing your own awards and NCOERs, at minimum four to six months prior to leaving any position or unit.

Response by SPC Larry Spiller made Nov 5 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-11-05T12:05:25-05:00

I didn't know a Soldier had any say in his/her award. Perhaps things have changed since my time. I do feel you on being "cheapened" by command if that is the right word for it. I remember a time when several of us were put in for AAM's. My NCOIC broke the news to me that he was tossing my recommendation out because I had 3 already. I felt angry like you are. I sucked it up, and promised myself I would hate him for all eternity. When I ets'd a few short months later, I received an ARCOM, at his recommendation!!! He went to bat for me and I never seen it coming. Glad I didn't squawk like I wanted to earlier. Just stay out of it is my advice. Hopefully sooner than later, a Soldier of your caliber will be rewarded appropriately. No doubt you'll see that MSM in the future.

Response by John H Green Jr made Nov 5 at 2017 12:24 PM

2017-11-05T12:24:20-05:00

If I recall a company commander can only recommend down grade. They have no authority to stop it from going forward. I think it has to go to Brigade where they make the final decision. I had a buddy who was getting screwed by his former unit in Korea. After a year he put in an ig complaint and within a month had his pcs award for an 18 month tour in hand.

Response by CPL Bobby McKellar made Nov 5 at 2017 1:03 PM

2017-11-05T13:03:13-05:00

The political BS is still alive and well I see! I got an ARCOM for my service in Desert Storm, I volunteered to go with VII Corps when they deployed from Germany. I was in a strategic M.I. unit at the time so I was a “filler” Along with four others, but we also had the “real world” experience that most of their analysts didn’t have. I hated the unit I was in because of the EXTREME amount of BS politics and ass kissing that I refused to participate in (I didn’t get promoted when I SHOULD have been, but at least my conscience was clear). When I got back to Germany and all of us got our awards, our team leader told us all that our unit C.O. tried to downgrade our ARCOM’s because they didn’t think we “deserved” them...fortunately they couldn’t override General Fred Franks. SO MANY of the brown nosers were pissed off because they would MAYBE get an AAM during their 2-3 year tour. But those same brown nosers didn’t want to put their butts on the line and deploy either...we got told we were “crazy”. Meanwhile, I was surprised because after they pinned my ARCOM, my NCOIC from my previous 9 month assignment in the S3 had an AAM for me and made sure they got it awarded to me in front of the other jackasses.
SO, sometimes the system works right. Just don’t let it get to you man because you WILL get recognized AND you’ll be awarded/rewarded when you least expect it! It’ll happen much to the chagrin of the jackasses that always play politics and kiss ass to try and get ahead.

Response by SPC Glenn Lovell made Nov 5 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-11-05T13:06:27-05:00

I would submit a letter to Brigade explaining what happened. Stand up for yourself, but make it clear that you are okay with whatever decision the Bde Cdr makes. Don't cry or whine over it, simply point out the facts and let Brigade handle it. There's no point in getting worked up over it, but at the same time you have to stand up for yourself because no one else will. Above and beyond, if the Brigade Commander doesn't fix it, accept his decision.

Response by SFC Thomas Nichols made Nov 5 at 2017 1:17 PM

2017-11-05T13:17:08-05:00

I received AAM's for stuff I thought worthless and nothing for going to Iraq, nothing for retirement. Disappointing, but whatever. Nobody cares, I moved on and I'm enjoying my new career. The Army was not the meritocracy I was lead to believe. Oh well. Having said that, good for you for doing what you could to make your fellow Soldiers better. You have the satisfaction of know that there are many Soldiers who received the benefit of what you had to offer. That's worth more than an ARCOM or any award.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 1:19 PM

2017-11-05T13:19:05-05:00

Ruck up move out...Charlie Mike Brother.

Response by SFC Joseph McCausland made Nov 5 at 2017 1:25 PM

2017-11-05T13:25:05-05:00

Hey Sarge, if all you said is true, then "yes" the level of responsibility and your job performance ( in my opinion) should have earned you an ARCOM, but remember while awards look great on the uniform, they don't get you any extra pay unless you received the MOH. So take pride in the fact that you were given a very difficult assignment and you not only completed it but excelled in doing it.

Don't let it get you down.... all that should matter is YOU know what you did, so take that same drive and experience to your next assignment and wear that AAM proudly.

Best of Luck.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 1:31 PM

2017-11-05T13:31:29-05:00

Don't appeal it. Drive on.

Response by LTC Michael Brantley made Nov 5 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-11-05T13:36:32-05:00

Leadership failures hit many of us. PCS awards do mean something to many of us, but like it was said, it isn't a requirement to receive one. I PCSed to a school after 2 years in my first unit. Never received anything. I did get an award from a supported unit. I'm sure my unit thought that was good enough. I also never received an ETS award. My supervisor was retiring and I'm sure totally forgot about anyone else. So my leadership at multiple levels failed me many times, but the comments and support from my peers and the NCOs I worked with remind me that while the leadership screw us often, they were aware that I did a good job. Lesson learned and served to remind me to never be that type of leader.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 5 at 2017 2:34 PM

2017-11-05T14:34:41-05:00

I never got a PCS award, my ETS award was the GCM.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 5 at 2017 2:40 PM

2017-11-05T14:40:05-05:00

The approval authority for an AAM is the BN CDR, so you know it at least went that far. Company Commander only makes recommendations on an AAM, they aren't the approval authority.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 3:17 PM

2017-11-05T15:17:22-05:00

Considering all the responses I've received from the pool of experience here, I've come to the conclusion not to seek any appeal. Though I did email the S1 to ask about some errors I noticed on the award, I'm not going to ask to have the result changed. I'm grateful I received anything at all, as opposed to some of you who were shafted much worse than me. Perspective is important. I'm aware of my accomplishments and the verbal encouragement I received during my tour was sufficient.

Driving on!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 3:40 PM

2017-11-05T15:40:32-05:00

could be worse, I found out that my retirement award will be an ARCOM because "my rank doesn't warrant a MSM". good thing the only thing I care about is that DD214

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2017 6:35 PM

2017-11-05T18:35:01-05:00

Seems like they couldn’t function without you. Next time write the award yourself, submit it up your chain of command by waiting in their office until you sign it like every other document you submit. Bingo.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Nov 5 at 2017 6:48 PM

2017-11-05T18:48:34-05:00

never got a PCS award in my career, variety of peeps in units said there would be one, but never saw one, not even for my retirement!
you should have spent time in the 82d
"You don't need awards, you have Jump Wings!"

Response by 1SG Richard DeBilzan made Nov 5 at 2017 8:13 PM

2017-11-05T20:13:45-05:00

SSG, this is an unfortunate situation. Hopefully your accolades were recognized on your NCOER, which in the long run is better than an award. Request to speak with your new 1SG to bring the situation tour new CSM about how your previous organization is failing Soldiers. That of course won't resolve your situation; however, it could help future Soldiers from the same experience. Think twice before making the formal appeal. My hunch is If your stepping-up volunteering on programs like this, your career will be fine. Keep up the great work, you will be recognized.

Response by SPC Robert Rhodes made Nov 5 at 2017 8:40 PM

2017-11-05T20:40:30-05:00

Did you do everything because you wanted an ARCOM or because you wanted to make sure every soldier that came to be trained by you had the best training?

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made Nov 5 at 2017 8:51 PM

2017-11-05T20:51:38-05:00

I have made self entitlement posts in the past... And in this instance, having read your whole post, and having thpught a moment...

I think you are correct, and that other soldiers have failed you and failed to be team players.
You did a lot of work, and I feel you should be recognized for it.

I havent been in the service since 2000, so I dont know exactly what to say to do.
Woild your old unit retaliate against you if you pushed it? Would they try to save face? Or would they simply be soldiers and take it like a man?

I can not say. I do hope for the best for you, and I am sorry your old unit doesnt seem to be team players.

Response by SPC Kurtis Bower made Nov 5 at 2017 11:12 PM

2017-11-05T23:12:25-05:00

I ran into a similar incident but I quickly learned that awards are at command discretion. So unfortunately you need to be on the commanders good side to get an award. Will it make a difference in the long run? Sure, but I would encourage you to chalk it up as a lesson learned and how can I improve as a soldier.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 12:19 AM

2017-11-06T00:19:05-05:00

It shocks a lot of people to hear that I have written the majority of my OERs and awards throughout my term in the Army. I understand your frustration, but your NCOER and awards will continually be late if you aren't proactive in writing them yourself and then sending them to your rater/recommender as "recommended bullets" in an NCOER support form or award template. This allows you to do two things. First, no one appreciates or even knows all the things that you do on a daily basis better than yourself. This allows you to brag on yourself, and show your superior everything that you have done for the unit. Secondly, this allows you to have a bit of control on submitting timely (and accurate) NCOERs and awards. There is no telling how many awards/NCOERs get needlessly kicked back or "sat on" because of some unknown administrative info is missing that could be filled out by you. Most Brigades require an MSM to be at BDE S1 NLT 120-150 days out from PCS/ETS. You could have written your own MSM, had your Company leadership validate it by signing, and had an MSM to BDE 4 months before your PCS'd. Let BDE decide if they want to downgrade it. If you get confused, march up to the S1 office and ask a clerk for a template that has been previously approved by CSM.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2017 4:25 AM

2017-11-06T04:25:32-05:00

Sounds like your intuition might be correct. If it was late already, your CO's choice was either issue an award himself and be done with it or explain why it's late to the BN CO. Sorry that happened.

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Nov 6 at 2017 8:57 AM

2017-11-06T08:57:12-05:00

It's in the past. Been there done that. LOM submitted, however because the command was late and didn't want it reflected downgraded to ARCOM for 24 years of service, although I have 5 MSMs already. Plus the ARCOM was handed to me at a restaurant. I threw it in the trash. Drive on, there is Life after military. Retired Soldier for Life.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Nov 7 at 2017 1:33 AM

2017-11-07T01:33:39-05:00

You earned the title of Soldier. Everything else is icing on the cake. Did you do all that work to make your soldiers and unit better or for a piece of cloth and medal and 2 minutes of someone reading a citation? Be proud of what you did.

Response by CSM Clifford Fargason made Nov 7 at 2017 12:06 PM

2017-11-07T12:06:59-05:00

No matter what comes of questioning your old unit, I hope that you will use this as a learning experience for the future. Sometimes the best thing that comes out of a crappy experience is a soldier determined to ensure he will do better when he/she is in charge.

Response by SP6 Everett Walter made Mar 19 at 2018 8:18 PM

2018-03-19T20:18:29-04:00

Suck it up ,move on my guess you didn't join for ribbons.

Response by SSG Anthony Pugh made Mar 19 at 2018 11:55 PM

2018-03-19T23:55:39-04:00

Suck it up !!! I think alot of us have been there.. Did way more than the award that was given. Keep striving for the best. That's the best Award/Reward.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-03-20T08:53:39-04:00

Try to appeal it and see what happens. What can it hurt?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 8:55 AM

2018-03-20T08:55:16-04:00

And remember, at the end of the day, it’s better to be pissed off than to be pissed on.

Response by GySgt Gregory Robeson made Mar 20 at 2018 3:31 PM

2018-03-20T15:31:50-04:00

This must be an Army thing - PCS Awards are not a given in the Marine Corps. I got 2 in my 20 yrs. End of Service awards are pretty common now, but not so much when I joined. Getting an AAM (or NAM for me) was a great honor whether it was a result of leaving a command or for doing something way out of the norm. So, what I'm saying is I may not be relating well at all to this - but getting an AAM is better than getting a swift kick in the pants. May not be what you expected....may not even be what you should have received....but it's also the reason you are not allowed to put yourself in for any award. It comes from the outside and if that officer did not want to fight for you with pushing the appropriate level of award up the chain, well that's really between you and him.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Mar 20 at 2018 3:54 PM

2018-03-20T15:54:35-04:00

Got my stripes E-5 in 16 months showing I was a good soldier. Left Germany with a Army commendation from Bn. Left Viet Nam with another Army Commendation. Didn’t want a Bronze Star, everyone at Bn level seemed to get one but not Commendation.

Response by SGT Rick Myers made Mar 20 at 2018 5:04 PM

2018-03-20T17:04:23-04:00

My unit you might get good conduct or AAM. There’s no rules or refs. You happen to be good at what you do. Forget the past and drive on ..

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Mar 20 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-03-20T18:46:32-04:00

Best advice I can give is this. Press on doing your best at what you do and when the time comes for you to submit an award for one of your troops, remember what it felt like and don’t let it happen to them.

Response by SSG Teddy Sawtelle made Mar 20 at 2018 11:19 PM

2018-03-20T23:19:27-04:00

Definitely right for what you feel, but suck it up... take “Cash’s” advice and “Drive On”...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:47 AM

2018-03-21T11:47:25-04:00

Look for awards in heaven

Response by PFC Donald Szczublewski made Mar 21 at 2018 12:52 PM

2018-03-21T12:52:45-04:00

Fuck it and just say keep it.

Response by SFC Michael Litaker made Mar 21 at 2018 12:59 PM

2018-03-21T12:59:43-04:00

Sorry Staff Sergeant but you need to suck it up and drive on. You may be correct in the fact that it was downgraded for lateness but True Non Coms don’t do a job for a potential award. You got knocked down on this one and the best advice I can give you is to move forward and when u are in a senior leader position one day ensure your Soldiers are taken care of which includes timely submission of personnel actions. Sorry but in my view your post comes off as whining about an award. As long as you know that you did your best to accomplish your mission. That’s all that matters.

Response by GySgt Matthew Haugh made Mar 21 at 2018 2:07 PM

2018-03-21T14:07:58-04:00

I was the only swim instructor for my regiment when I was an Sgt. I trained hundreds of people over 3 years....never got shit for it and you know what it's all good...you get the personal satisfaction that you trained people and made a difference in unit readiness....that's recognition enough.

Response by LTC Al Kittredge made Mar 21 at 2018 3:46 PM

2018-03-21T15:46:28-04:00

Don't feel bad. It happens to all ranks. I had a fairly high speed job as a Captain during an extended tour in Vietnam at the end of that ill fated war and was put in for a Legion of Merit. My commander was told "company grade officer's " don't get LOM. My commander then broke it up into 3 separate periods where I was involved with significant programs and I received 3 Bronze Stars while standing at the same awards formation. Problem solved

Response by SSG Brian Edwards made Mar 21 at 2018 4:03 PM

2018-03-21T16:03:36-04:00

Well im going to be the devil's advocate on this one YOU got screwed. Everyone forgets in the real world when it's comes time for promotion those awards do count. You should be pissed off. When I was in I seen SPC get higher awards for PCS than that. Is there anything to do NO. But im with you on your rant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 4:08 PM

2018-03-21T16:08:48-04:00

So... here is my take on it. Yes, you got screwed. Someone in battalion lost your paperwork and your unit fast tracked an AAM to make sure you got something and also to cover their ass for the screw up. However, I always looked at awards as more crap I had to buy for my uniform. In the end all the awards in the world don’t mean jack in the civilian world.

Response by SFC Raymond Morales made Mar 21 at 2018 5:37 PM

2018-03-21T17:37:24-04:00

Was in a unit in Ft Dix training troops to go overseas and was dealt a raw deal AAM as well. The BN Cdr didn't believe in giving awards higher than AAMs. One E7 got a COA! Keep pushing brother, you'll be recognized.

Response by SFC Jerry Roesener made Mar 21 at 2018 6:03 PM

2018-03-21T18:03:32-04:00

If you're worried about an award then you are serving for the wrong reason.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Mar 21 at 2018 7:08 PM

2018-03-21T19:08:39-04:00

After serving 34 years with the last 10 as a 1SG my retirement award was submitted as a LOM I have two MSM as a 1SG from different units one of which was during a deployment you’d think the BN would be sure that it was submited a year after my retirement I called the BN and spoke to the XO he found the award in the SSA in box . I was told that it was submitted but it been 6 years now never saw it

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 9:01 PM

2018-03-21T21:01:15-04:00

Stay positive Ssg no matter what. Sometimes we have good or bad leaders. What do you want to be for your men. I had plenty of &$@“?!. Always remember to do the hard right versus the easy wrong. I appreciate that you maintained the combatives in Korea. That makes me sleep soundly at night knowing that. Keep up your hard work and ethics. Hooah Hooah

Response by CPO Ed Williamson made Mar 21 at 2018 11:08 PM

2018-03-21T23:08:58-04:00

This is a new one for me. Bitching about not getting a medal that would be an end of tour award. So you did a good job? Great, that was what was expected of you. The military today sports more garbage than a third world dictator.

Response by SPC Oscar Garcia made Mar 21 at 2018 11:13 PM

2018-03-21T23:13:48-04:00

Staff Seargeant, drink water and move on. Life is not fair and being in the service, I’m surprised you are ranting over this. I was passed over for different awards, coins, COAs, and even rank; yet, I had the respect of the people around me. I held my head high because I didn’t need a shiny metal to be distinguished. Honor comes from the respect you earn and from doing the right thing. This July will mark 18 years since I ETS. I keep in touch with many people that I serve with. Last August I met up with my Ol Platton Sgt who is now a CSM in Tampa Fl along with his Boss Full Bird Colonel. He and his Brigade Commander came to Southern Cal on a Promotion Detail and Reenlistment Ceremony at the Iowa in San Pedro. He bragged to the Brigade Commander about how my demeanor, my attitude, and selfless service during my military endeavor made me the ideal soldier. I mentored soldiers and advised officers on our equipment as an E4-P. Staff Sargeant, Stop focusing on atta boys and focus on Leadership, Mentoring Your Subordinates, and more importantly; focus on the Army Values. Medals look nice on uniforms, but respect is something that looks good on you every day of your life.
Sincerely,
101st Airborne Divisions

Response by LTC Michael Brantley made Mar 21 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-03-21T23:21:06-04:00

Remember the failure of your unit's leadership and vow to never be "that kind" of a leader as you continue in your career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:53 PM

2018-03-21T23:53:53-04:00

So, firstly, I will not tell you if the two or three times my award wasn't what I thought it was going to be it should have been, that won't help you.
Secondly, as some have explained before, the award is not complete if the BDE CDR didn't see it and sign it one way or another. So there is a chance that your new unit won't upload the award into iperms because of the error (hint, they shouldn't, and this could be your forcing function). The only way it should be an AAM, is if the recommender changed the award, or if the BDE CDR downgraded.
So, I would talk to the recommender, if you have any kind of report with him/her, then you should be able to figure out what happened.
Thirdly, awards are a way for you to distinguish yourself from your peers. Three ARCOMs and one AAM looks better than one ARCOM and three AAMs.
Personally, I would give it a cursory effort, but be prepared for the award to be the same. Hopefully your accolades were well documented in your NCOER. That level of work, depending on how many individuals you trained and where they came from, should have made you a babe that was easily recognized by the BDE CDR. And if that's the case, then an ARCOM is what you merited.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:54 PM

2018-03-21T23:54:00-04:00

Appeal!! There is a process in the book. I think you have a year to do an appeal. But the quicker the better. I was submitted for a Soldier’s Medal, was kicked back because there was no police report so I was awarded an AAM because the BN commander could sign it on the spot and the training was going to end that same week. I inquired and the BN commander told me what happen so they resubmitted. It was signed by the Chief of the National Guard Bureau, 4-Star. It was kicked back by HRC with no action. Didn’t follow the proper routing. I was a Guardsman at a Reserve run School so it had to go through the Reserves. What does the Reserve care about a Guardsman. Yea- absolutely nothing. It will never happen but I can say I tried. You too need to try. Don’t give up or you will always think you were not appreciated for all the work you put in. Good luck.

Response by SGT Nathan Quinn made Mar 22 at 2018 12:44 AM

2018-03-22T00:44:46-04:00

Quit whining, I did a hitch in the Air Force , Worked Active Duty for the Army and retired from the Army Guard
Got 27 medals , 5 division battle patches and a CAB. Go get more medals, I was attached to a dick head ran unit ,with buddy medal system,you know the kind the route clearance crew gets the lower medals and the ones with thier lips planted on the Captains ass in the FOB get Bronze Stars ,left them ,Returned to my unit got an ARCOM, fuck'em you don't need them or one medal from them.
Remember ,I said I was attached, little did they know my chain of command STARTED with an O6, I told them on the flight home that I worked straight for a Col. and the 1st Sgt and the Captain were going on my report.
They thought I was full of Shit ,until the plane landed and a full bird met me on the taxi way. Point is. Fuck'em put thier ass on an official report and personally let them know they will never see the next pay grade

Response by SGT Joshua Saldana made Mar 22 at 2018 3:31 AM

2018-03-22T03:31:32-04:00

Fight it. If you were a overweight E-7 or higher and ran the same shitty S1that did this you would have received a Bronze Star and MSM. To many people that go above and beyond getting screwed over due to someone covering their ass. You deserve to be recognized for the support you provided to your unit and team mates in the theater. More importantly it will make difference later in your career to be properly recognized for your service and conduct. Don't stand down.

Response by SGT David Zamora made Mar 22 at 2018 5:06 AM

2018-03-22T05:06:33-04:00

I would go straight to the CMSM or to the battalion camander and say something. Because you cant always depend on you chain of camand because there the problem. I have had to do that many times and I have gone to the Adgent Genral to get thing resloved I. Cost me from ever geting promated but to me it was worth it to see them ge repamaded

Response by SGT Christopher Breen made Mar 22 at 2018 9:38 AM

2018-03-22T09:38:25-04:00

See who signed it was there a change of command and they did not know you and down headed it if not rather way I would do an inquiry into it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 22 at 2018 9:42 AM

2018-03-22T09:42:48-04:00

OK, you were crapped on. But who are you going to appeal to- it will just go back to the unit in question. In fact there is no Army requirement that states you even have to have a PCS award. It seems you could try, but they could just down grade it to NOTHING. MY advice is to just drive on, and yes I even had 2 LOM downgraded to MSM after 14 yrs in the same regiment.

Response by SSG David Moody made Mar 22 at 2018 12:48 PM

2018-03-22T12:48:36-04:00

As a retired vet, I like some others, feel like you maybe were "robbed" but let me ask? Did you honestly do all that you did in that unit for an award? Did you do it all for recognition? Or did you do it to help advance your own career? Me personally, I did everything I did in the army for advancement and the pay and benefits. I am proud of what I did and accomplished and look back with no regrets. Move on and let the past be the past. You were owed nothing but a paycheck and Pat on the back. You got little more so be grateful for what you received and move on with your career.

Response by SPC Alex Penzenik made Mar 22 at 2018 1:52 PM

2018-03-22T13:52:50-04:00

You'll be fine. No one cares once your out.

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Mar 22 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-03-22T15:59:35-04:00

The best thing is let it go since you will have to go through hell just for a appeal the only will take your time, energy & fostration therefor let it go.
Many Soldiers do outstanding work yet someone always try’s to bring this Soldiers down just because they can’t be like them. As long you received a outstanding NCOER is all the matter because that is what board will review & once they see the down grade they will know the type of Soldier the you are ok Airborne ...

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 4:30 PM

2018-03-22T16:30:48-04:00

Most of the time, they put you up for awards that are higher on the chance you’ll receive them, when most of the time you end up winning the step below it. It’s like an overbid but you still come out on top.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 4:54 PM

2018-03-22T16:54:57-04:00

Sounds like you did a great job and were deserving of recognition. If you can honestly tell yourself that you left your assignment in better shape than you found it, that bears merit. Sadly, these things happen and although that doesn't make you feel better, take pride in what you did and continue to march. Try to learn from it and ensure that if you are in a position to recognize achievements, you don't make the same mistake. As long as you are satisfied with the man in the mirror, it will all work itself out over time. Don't let the failings of others shape your thoughts and deeds on down the road. Don't focus on how far you have yet to travel, but how far you have come. 99% of the USA have not taken the steps that you have to become a Leader in the US Army. Congratulations on a job well done, and keep up the good work. It has already reaped rewards and will continue to.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 22 at 2018 5:03 PM

2018-03-22T17:03:25-04:00

I don't know if its an Army versus Marine thing, or things have changed since I got out. During my time it was damn rare that an end of tour award was actually awarded before PCS orders were executed. Nothing like pinning a medal on a Marine who just pissed in the public fountain during broad daylight while the full school bus drove by and an all female jeep drivers class was passing in the other direction. So I'm not sure the "late submission should matter."

Response by PFC Andy Mason made Mar 22 at 2018 5:36 PM

2018-03-22T17:36:23-04:00

Better late than never.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 6:24 PM

2018-03-22T18:24:34-04:00

Only the approval authority has the right to down grade an award. PCS awards are not mandatory nevertheless, if your recommender put you for an Arcom then that award must go all the way to the approval authority. If I wss you I would not fight over the award, but I would assess myself with an IG for a company comander abusing his or her authority.

Response by SPC Cynthia Carmichael made Mar 22 at 2018 6:40 PM

2018-03-22T18:40:53-04:00

Yes

Response by Sgt Cornelio Delacerda made Mar 22 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-03-22T19:04:25-04:00

Continue to forward!!! Show your new unit how hard you work and recognition will come to you!!!

Response by SGT Clarence Driver made Mar 23 at 2018 6:43 AM

2018-03-23T06:43:10-04:00

Check JAG on unbecoming of a N C O on performance. Seems like a good case.

Response by Dustin Moore made Mar 23 at 2018 8:48 AM

2018-03-23T08:48:32-04:00

I would take it as far as possible respectfully until the issues resolved or decided

Response by LTC Richard Peppe made Mar 23 at 2018 10:49 AM

2018-03-23T10:49:54-04:00

Well you provided a service. You did your job well. Your unit wanted you to be recognized and knew you were waiting for some sort of recognition. Be it an AAM or an MSM. The merit is your work was recognized. March on and continue with the outstanding sort of work you’ve been known to produce. Be positive in your efforts and you will be recognized.

Response by MSG Gregory Marcelle made Mar 23 at 2018 4:55 PM

2018-03-23T16:55:09-04:00

Sorry as a NCO you did your job. Which is to train take care of Soldiers. You reward is they will remember your hard work and try to duplicate it.
As a retired MSG I never expected an award. Just grateful for the opportunity to train Soldiers. Be Safe and Thank You for your Service.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 6:55 PM

2018-03-24T18:55:44-04:00

Although these other guys have likely wise words about turning the other cheek, I simply cannot support that. After 12 years of service my biggest issue with the military is all the hypocrisy. Everyone preaches personal and moral courage, loyalty, duty, etc. But when a friend, a "good guy," colleague, stranger is incompetent, no one wants to be the bad guy and police up their own. This is how sh!t floats to the top. I'd rock the boat. Give these guys the chance to be held accountable, but do so professionally. But it takes a certain kind of gusto to do that; the kind that no one appreciates/wants anymore. Good luck brother.

Response by SSG Michael Raysses made Mar 24 at 2018 7:56 PM

2018-03-24T19:56:40-04:00

Idk, guys, gals.... in my entire almost 25 years.... I only received a coupla "Personal" awards... the rest were UNIT AWARDS/Accomplishments... but again.... we didn't serve our respective branches for AWARDS...we served for honor, dignity.... and we just BELIEVED in the mission.... there is nothing wrong with an ARCOM/CHIEVE.... or the MSM.... but no matter what you received, bud.... like some of the others have said?... take it and move on.... put it up in a shadow box.... or just leave it in its little encasement.... either way?... you earned it!... so OOORAH/HOOAH!!!... SSG Mike Raysses, USAR-Ret.

Response by MSG Benedict Antonucci made Mar 24 at 2018 8:59 PM

2018-03-24T20:59:09-04:00

I hear you, I was in a few units like that in Korea, and no matter what you do below E-7 or O-4 you are given more responsibility and then not given the appropriate recognition. Drive on it does get better.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 10:00 AM

2018-03-25T10:00:55-04:00

Read my fellow 91. Read the regulation. It doesn’t have to make it to brigade to get down graded. You Bn commander is authorized to downgrade the award. Your supervisor robed you like you said. You can’t change the past but you can influence the future by not letting this happen to your future soldiers.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 3:31 PM

2018-03-25T15:31:25-04:00

Brother, sorry to burst your bubble, but no one should be working toward an award. PCS awards are not a requirement. Soldiers years back used to never leave their units, so they got nothing. At the beginning of this decade, a boat hit the pier during JLOTS and started to sink. I dove in and pulled two Soldiers out, rescuing them from drowning. I got a COA. Before that, my convoy got hit, and I took out the little bastard before he could set off another radio device. Got nothing for that but a "good job you saved us," and a coin. I'm sorry you feel under appreciated, but a piece of paper and ribbon on your chest isn't going to make you feel better, do anything for you, or put more money in your pocket. The uniform comes off in the end. Focus on what you can do for your Soldiers and help them progress and become a SSG like you. What you should really be worried about is your evaluations, not what you were recommended to receive.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 3:53 PM

2018-03-25T15:53:55-04:00

I haven't read the other comments but I would at least give it a try. Read the AR but I am pretty sure that no matter what it should have gone to the BD CO and that he is the final approving authority on the approval or downgrade.

Response by SPC Jason Bagley made Mar 25 at 2018 11:08 PM

2018-03-25T23:08:52-04:00

More and more unit do this thay also play favorites. If you donot fight then no one else will. Good luck on what you decide.

Response by SGT Lance D made Mar 26 at 2018 9:44 PM

2018-03-26T21:44:43-04:00

When I was in the military I spent three straight years in Korea. I was a recovery operator for the entire 8th Army and more. I also was in charge of all inspections for our motor pool. Went on countless recovery missions. I was an OFC at the time. I remember I had a big inspection come up and I was in charge. I took a shit sandwich and brought everything to regulation and more. I was promised from motor sergeant to BN commander an impact award because I was the first one in years to ever get first time hundred percent. I left Korea in 2012, I was told the award is in the mail. I did receive an AAM when I PCSed. Take what you have done with pride and drive on, no one can ever take that away from you. You will get your time, your recognition in time. Be patient! For everyone else karma is a bitch. I hope this helps some!

Response by SGT Lance D made Mar 26 at 2018 9:45 PM

2018-03-26T21:45:51-04:00

Auto correct OFC it's suppose to say PFC
I left the military as and E5

Response by SFC John Hatton made Mar 27 at 2018 5:16 AM

2018-03-27T05:16:57-04:00

I received an AAM for PCS once. I had just turned the Battalion and Brigade in to the IG for fraudulent activity involving DA 31 processing. In short, I was moved across the country for the safety of family and because that Bn Commander knew my new Brigade commander, I was screwd over anyway. They mailed an AAM one year later to my unit. I sent it back to them and requested it be revoked. Awards from criminals, hold no value and only detract from ones pride. My advice, it’s not worth keeping if you have to beg for it. Your self respect holds more value. Being humble is a great leadership trait, however being strong will keep you alive.

Response by SFC John Hatton made Mar 27 at 2018 5:23 AM

2018-03-27T05:23:07-04:00

MSG, really,it’s the S-1s job to teach you read now.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 6:07 PM

2018-03-27T18:07:51-04:00

I work in S1 and i deal with awards but all i can think of right now is that maybe the battalion commander had got downgrade approval from the battalion commander.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-03-27T19:49:46-04:00

That’s messed up

Response by SPC Bob Herd made Mar 28 at 2018 12:15 AM

2018-03-28T00:15:51-04:00

FUBAR, all the way! Nice job, sergeant!

Response by Brigitte Elsenheimer made Mar 28 at 2018 4:22 AM

2018-03-28T04:22:42-04:00

I have never believed awards should be based on rank! It should be based on merit! Sounds to me as if you went above and beyond the call! Push the issue, will help you in the long run. Its worth the hassle, trust me!

Response by CW2 Kenneth Sanborn made Mar 28 at 2018 11:15 PM

2018-03-28T23:15:08-04:00

Typical Army Admin weenies interfering as usua!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 5:36 PM

2018-03-29T17:36:01-04:00

Same thing happened to me once. My unit sat on an award for nearly a year. Finally submitted it for an AAM to avoid explaining why it was so late to higher. Gotta roll with it. Awards are nice, but you can't "appeal" for an award. Let it go and move on

Response by SPC Joe Lopez made Mar 30 at 2018 4:52 AM

2018-03-30T04:52:13-04:00

Jag please?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 5:07 AM

2018-03-30T05:07:05-04:00

If the award mean a lot to you, I’ll say fuck it and keep pushing for that award

Response by CPL Jimmy Miller made Mar 30 at 2018 11:13 AM

2018-03-30T11:13:23-04:00

I'll take my wings over it all but I cherish mi CIB the most. when you get out all you got is memories them awards are just that.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 4:12 PM

2018-03-30T16:12:46-04:00

Please fight it. That is a major thing you’ve done. I know it sounds like the non Army thing to do, but your old unit not doing their job is the worse thing they can do!

Response by SGT Julius Wong made Mar 30 at 2018 8:34 PM

2018-03-30T20:34:02-04:00

Yes, I would not appeal if I was you.
Award is how good your skill performance and also how well your PLT perception. None of those really match closely just like service we provide, sometimes we gave all we can but can only be fully seen by the same point of view as ours. So drive on, brother - you serve and that is honorable enough for many of us.

Response by PO1 Joseph Plachinski made Mar 30 at 2018 9:41 PM

2018-03-30T21:41:52-04:00

Did you do the job to help others or to get a medal?

Response by MSG Clinton Brown made Mar 30 at 2018 11:41 PM

2018-03-30T23:41:46-04:00

They don’t have to give you anything be happy you got one you’re not in the Army for awards you’re in to defend the USA that’s what is the matter right now everybody thinks they are supposed to be recognized for everything it’s like all kids getting trophies for playing ball when I was in I could care less If I got an award I just hoped my next job was staying where I could get into the most action not behind a desk or an instructor somewhere

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 9:35 AM

2018-03-31T09:35:50-04:00

Ssg can I ask a question, why did you enlist? Was it to protect, or was it to get awards? I’m not trying to be rude or a fuckface but if you know you made a difference and other people know as well isn’t that good enough or do you really need an award for that?

Response by CW4 James Toole made Mar 31 at 2018 4:54 PM

2018-03-31T16:54:28-04:00

Cw4 J Toole, Hold your head high as only you know your accomplishments along with those you trained. There have been many before you that feel dishonored as you were, I was all human error and overbite. Stand proud as you have done so much for so many, which was your intent goal, I salute you sir.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 11:43 PM

2018-03-31T23:43:15-04:00

Yes, same has happened to me. But it was worst. This SGM made me felt all sorts of worst emotions. Fought witching my self to suck up and drive on my life depended on my next decisions. Overall, I overcame it and just gave up on the appeal process and let life play and karma get back at them. Just stay focus on your new unit show how wrong the ncoer or awards are and be Stella.

Response by SSG Jose Flores made Apr 1 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-04-01T11:30:42-04:00

The best thing I can say along with the other posts is have someone else recommend the award. If you feel you were robbed out of your award and it is a reflection of a major time in your career, then have someone vouch for you. You know what i mean by that. You can do that by Reg.

Response by SSG Randy Talbot made Apr 1 at 2018 12:55 PM

2018-04-01T12:55:27-04:00

Throughout my time on active duty and as a DA civilian, I have seen nothing but insanity when it comes to awards. Let me give you a few examples. Our commanding general was awarded a bronze star for being in Kuwait at the beginning of the war. His driver and his aide had their awards downgraded to ARCOMs. It made no sense, they were with the CG everywhere he went. I watched a director give every one the same award, regardless of how much they contributed or did not contribute. Makes you wonder why you should plan, coordinate, and execute a function as the lead and the person who shows up on the day of an event and writes a newspaper article is awarded the same as you. A medical unit deploys to Afghanistan in 2003. They get caught up in the boots on the ground changes that happened there. Once they return to the states, their commander is awarded the combat action ribbon. Medical personnel who were with him put in for the award 5 times and each time it was denied by the unit S1, even though the commander wrote letters of support for those who deserved it.

I assisted a WWII vet who flew 35 missions in a B-17. The regulation called for 25 missions to qualify for a DFC. However, each bomb group had their own interpretation of regulatory guidelines. So one unit has 25 missions, another included the sinking of ships, and another changed the requirements every month. After two years of working this award package through the appeals and board of corrections offices, the Air Force said he didn't qualify under today's standards. We told the AF to evaluate the individual under the criteria for WWII. The planes pilot received one years earlier and the vet ended up being awarded the DFC.

My experience is that no matter what is written, no matter what the reg says, individuals along the line will change the criteria or make up their own criteria as they see fit. Just ask Maj Dick Winters. During the Normandy campaign, the 101st Airborne made a rule that only one MOH would be given out for the campaign. No where is this written in award regulations. Winter received a DFC and LTC Cole received the only MOH for leading a bayonet team charge.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Apr 1 at 2018 1:04 PM

2018-04-01T13:04:50-04:00

I know how you feel but I'm not sure there is an appeal process. When I retired in 2014 with 36 years of Active/Guard and Reserve Service, my Commander put me in for an LOM. The General in my last Command (87th RRC) downgraded it to a MSM. I was fine with it until my Commander told me he was receiving the same award for being in Battalion Command for two years. I told the RRC CSM and General to keep their award but I believe it's still in my records.

Response by SSG Harry Outcalt made Apr 2 at 2018 8:01 AM

2018-04-02T08:01:07-04:00

I was put in for msm it was downgraded to AAM because the person who put me in for it left the unit and no one would vouch for the award , trouble was he told me he had put me in for award before he left ,so imagine my shock when I get called up for an award an receive a AAM instead of the MSM , was pretty disappointed , more importantly learned a harsh lesson on military politics, it's not about right or wrong but who you know at least it was in the old army , so in the end it meant little as it wasn't a Combat Award , don't let it eat away at you it doesn't define what kind of soldier you are ...

Response by TSgt Rick Howell made Apr 2 at 2018 4:32 PM

2018-04-02T16:32:22-04:00

I fought through, Senior commanders of an E-9 for two years after one of my airmen so dec was overlooked, and he was finally awarded the MSM, retroactive, and was even promoted, retroactive based on when he should have received the decoration, which affected his points. He was also given retro pay based on the promotion. Keep fighting, if you deserved it, it's worth the battle. I felt I did more for him, than any of my piers ever did for me and that's what makes us leaders.

Response by CSM Larry Cross (Retired) made Apr 2 at 2018 6:50 PM

2018-04-02T18:50:45-04:00

BLUF: Your NCO Support Channel terribly failed you. Every Soldier in the US Army is under the coverage of a NCO somewhere. Every Soldier that is hosed, it is due to the ineptness of a “sorry” NCO that did not do his/her job. My apology from a grateful NCO Corps for all your professionalism.

Response by CPL Sean Wayment made Apr 2 at 2018 7:31 PM

2018-04-02T19:31:28-04:00

In the civilian world no one understands these awards. Is sucks, but in the long game...it will not really effect you. Drive on and be proud of your service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 9:41 PM

2018-04-02T21:41:34-04:00

Seems fishy, if they changed it to an AAM then there wouldn’t be any reason for it to be recommended for down grade. An arcom has to have the Bde commanders signature so it not making it to his/her desk doesn’t make sense. Your rater failed you plain and simple, it happens.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 10:54 PM

2018-04-02T22:54:55-04:00

Simply a sad situation which NO doubt left a very negative impression. Voice your concerns to the 1SG and explain in detail the situation. Taking initiative at your level speaks volumes. No your worth because you earned it. I could say chuck it up and move on, but that's not fair. Nevertheless do what do using tact and simply being honest when speaking to your old Chain Of Command. Best of luck to you with your new unit. Hopefully they will appreciate you more!

Response by PFC Rick Power made Apr 3 at 2018 2:51 AM

2018-04-03T02:51:03-04:00

I was injured overseas and was given a purple heart in the wrong name but correct ssn. My unit was too lazy to correct the problem and took me 2 years after my service to get ahold of a senator to correct it because it couldn't be put on my dd214 due to the name diffrence. 14 years later and im still waiting for the ebenefits office to reflect on the correction with the va.

Response by SFC Derrick Wilborn Sr. made Apr 3 at 2018 6:21 AM

2018-04-03T06:21:57-04:00

It's up to you. It is one award. But it dies signify years of hats work that you did. That time can't be detente to you. And it needs to be appreciated properly. It will only effect your future promotion potential, not theirs. Do what you can live with.

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Apr 3 at 2018 7:03 AM

2018-04-03T07:03:52-04:00

SSG Showes,
Well, one thing is your leadership and another could be who wrote your award. Was this person your immediate supervisor, or was it someone who got tagged to do it? The reason I asking that is because I ran into that situation when I had to type several awards for Soldiers I didn't even know because their supervisor was PCSing and dropped the ball so, that left me to type those awards. On top that, there was barely anything on their counseling packet to go by to have an idea what these Soldiers have done in the past. I was able to submit and approved ARCOMs for them, but I had to pull some teeth to get them through, ha ha ha. I actually didn't get anything after my tour with 5th SFG, and I didn't really gave any thoughts or concerns about it either. I would say just to concentrate on your next assignment SSG...good luck brother!

Response by PO1 John Anderson made Apr 3 at 2018 8:45 AM

2018-04-03T08:45:14-04:00

I've received my chest full of medals in 24 years of honorable service, and I pissed away a few!

Response by SFC Wesley Tankersley made Apr 3 at 2018 12:03 PM

2018-04-03T12:03:54-04:00

SFC (Verify to see)
I had the same thing happen. After almost 21 years of service, a tour in Iraq, a tour in Afghanistan and holding many different positions including acting 1SG for almost six weeks I submitted my recommendation for award as a MSM for retirement. It was downgraded to an ARCOM.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 1:40 PM

2018-04-03T13:40:06-04:00

I’ve never recieved an award in my time . If I were you , I’d say something since my unit likes to screw everyone over , but that’s just me . If I feel like I deserved it & got it half-assed , I’d be beyond upset . Bring it up to your chain of command .

Response by SPC Jay Will made Apr 3 at 2018 3:05 PM

2018-04-03T15:05:02-04:00

Unfortunately this is all to common throughout the Branch. I seen a soldier who was a first termer ask for an extension before pcs to korea and he was advised to go to division and he would be deffered or orders would be deleted. He was told by his NCOIC to not contact division and that he would get him 60 days through brigade but what happened paperwork was never submitted and he didnt act on his promise and they made that soldier pcs anyway with only 2 days to out process smdh

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Apr 3 at 2018 3:10 PM

2018-04-03T15:10:55-04:00

I would stand down on the appeal. I've argued so many things during my tenure and lost many battles. Frame your AAM certificate/orders and make a shadow box for your memories. You know what you accomplished, I know what you accomplished. My hat is off to you...

Response by MSG Don Jones made Apr 3 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-04-03T15:27:51-04:00

Same here

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-04-03T16:23:23-04:00

Paperwork got lost for one award, and my PCS after being a key asset that helped stand up a BDE APG platoon (now company) and got an AAM. I'd drive on, but that story infuriates even me. 3 yrs in Korea and all that hard work, that sucks.

Response by SP5 Jabez B Wright made Apr 3 at 2018 4:28 PM

2018-04-03T16:28:07-04:00

You need to be awarded with what you truly desrve, appeal it.

Response by TSgt Jeff Kaszubski made Apr 3 at 2018 4:36 PM

2018-04-03T16:36:46-04:00

Whatever happened to Commendation Medals? Achievement Medal is a slap in the face.

Response by SGT Osmond Akmenkalns made Apr 3 at 2018 5:19 PM

2018-04-03T17:19:38-04:00

I can understand your frustration.. My commander held my CMB (Combat Medic Badge) award paperwork until we came home from Iraq at the end of my tour in 05. He held it as leverage so I would re-up with my unit.. He said, "if I didn't then the award paperwork would disappear." I didn't reenlist with that unit because I took a flight medic slot in another unit. My CMB award paperwork (which i EARNED) disappeared like he said it would and I never got it to this day. So I COMPLETELY understand the frustration you feel towards your old unit.

Response by SSG Peter Aubin made Apr 3 at 2018 6:40 PM

2018-04-03T18:40:12-04:00

Considering that after 22 years of service when I retired the unit didn’t even put me in for even a certificate of achievement I’d probably not be to concerned

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Apr 3 at 2018 7:13 PM

2018-04-03T19:13:51-04:00

Here is my take on this based on 30 years experience. NCO'S ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE CARE OF TROOPS PERIOD! NOW AS FAR AS AWARDS GO WHAT YOU FEEL YOU DESERVE BASED ON WHAT YOU GET. APPLES AND ORANGES SOLDIER. NOW HERE IS A LITTLE SECRET. WHEN PCS'ING. GET PERSONAL LETTERS FROM BN CO AND CSM. OR WHATEVER LEVEL YOU ARE AT. AWARDS ARE GREAT AND THEY SHOW YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS. BUT WHEN YOU ARE LEAVING YOUR UNIT. YOU ARE NO LONGER A ASSET. IF YOU HAVE GOOD LEADERSHIP YOU'LL GET WHAT YOU DESERVE. POOR LEADERSHIP ONCE YOU ARE GONE CONSIDER YOU A GHOST. DONT MEAN TO SO HARSH. BUT THATS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE. BUT IT STILL FALLS ON THOSE SGT'S SBOULDERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING

Response by CPL Diane Johnson made Apr 3 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-04-03T19:27:38-04:00

What damage can be done by contesting? Have you spoken to JAG? See what your legal routes are? Personally I would fight it. You have earned it.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 7:36 PM

2018-04-03T19:36:43-04:00

If you win through an Arctic ice flow.
Unmentioned at home in the press.
Heed it not. No man seeth the piston.
But it driveth the ship, nonetheless.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 7:37 PM

2018-04-03T19:37:31-04:00

I know that I dont have much rank, but I feel you should be mad for a second. But look at all that shit you did while you were in. I read your article and I was like "damn". But a piece of pretty paper and a medal isnt what people are going to remember you for. Its all that hard work you mentioned. So your unit dicked you, has that no happened before? You still moved on, right? Youre a badass and you dont need a piece of paper to tell you that. Good luck!!

Response by SPC Andrew Deckman made Apr 3 at 2018 7:54 PM

2018-04-03T19:54:29-04:00

I say drive on if you need promotion points do a couple NCO boards get NCO of the month, year then you can make it up.

Response by Sgt Ryan Braun made Apr 3 at 2018 8:37 PM

2018-04-03T20:37:08-04:00

Your reward is in the lives if all the troops whom you impacted, a piece of metal and cloth mean nothing. Stop chasing decorations for your uniform and focus on your troops.
~Former Marine Plt Sgt

Response by HN Heather Hildman made Apr 3 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-04-03T22:05:09-04:00

Just going to say I feel you got robbed but in the real world it won't matter. Awards have not do any for or against me in the civilian world. Just move on and don't dwell on it ANF just be the best person you can be and karma will get you.. karma works both ways. Good and bad. I hope the best for you.

Response by CPL Eli Kay made Apr 3 at 2018 10:31 PM

2018-04-03T22:31:35-04:00

i didnt even get an ETS award

Response by SFC Donald Housey made Apr 3 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-04-03T22:37:15-04:00

As SFC I retired from 3 ACR at Fort Benning didn’t get a retirement award never got in trouble been to combat, Drill Sergent, Operation Noo just a few the unit was Miss up welcome to awards in the Infantry. I could of wrote congress or Post Commander and CSM, but I’ve learn what’s inside of you as a men, the people you come in contact with that you make a different in there lives is more rewarding then an awsrd any day. I love my Infantry Brothers.

Response by CW2 Mikel Smith made Apr 4 at 2018 12:31 AM

2018-04-04T00:31:09-04:00

Even if recommended for downgrade it should have continued forward. Not the worst I have ever seen. I spent 23 years in my unit was deactivated and I was stuck in an Apache battalion as a kiowa driver my retirement award was written up for an AAM. I fought them and in the end received no retirement award.

Response by CPL Josh Johnson made Apr 4 at 2018 7:30 AM

2018-04-04T07:30:46-04:00

Go for it brother.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 9:28 AM

2018-04-04T09:28:17-04:00

Honestly, I would just drive on and use it as a teaching point for your soldiers about why its so important to take care of your soldiers. I mean, we all know its just a piece of cloth, but we also know how it can be directly linked to retention and performance. Having been in for 16 years and the only award I've gotten that wasn't a gimme is my ARCOM w/ V, this topic always strikes a nerve.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Apr 4 at 2018 1:14 PM

2018-04-04T13:14:31-04:00

Rank should have nothing to do with it, but we all know it does. Bottom line its not a right its an honor a privledge to get an award. I am currently on terminal leave after 26 years maybe some day Ill get my retirement award but no worries because its about the honor I found in serving my country and thats enough for me. Sure maybe sounds like you earned an award but if that was your goal then you need to find another job

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 1:33 PM

2018-04-04T13:33:27-04:00

You don’t do it for the awards so who cares at least you got recognized. Take for what it’s worth unless your a ribbon chaser then fight it I guess

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-04-04T13:42:10-04:00

Not to dwell too long on way back machine but here we go . I received my only UCMJ in the ROK in 1986. Fortunately when I left for Polk I was handed an aam by an NCO out of 1SG safe. It was for excellent performance. I made mistakes early on ,,but if you did all that you say I would say you were screwed. Now, what to do?? Your a good soldier, that said you need to make sure you treat your soldiers well, reward / discipline as necessary. Make sure there awards, careers , families etc are squared away. We learn more from the bad leaders than the good, take knee, drink water & move out !!!!!

Response by SFC Warren Dull made Apr 4 at 2018 2:10 PM

2018-04-04T14:10:41-04:00

Got an AAM coming out of Iraq because I was with a Reserve unit, and we did more than the Active duty unit we were with!!!!

Response by AN Crystal Michuda made Apr 4 at 2018 3:10 PM

2018-04-04T15:10:16-04:00

I got several awards that weren't in the computer system. So I didn't even try to claim them..... including my good conduct.

Response by CPL Michael Tannheimer made Apr 4 at 2018 4:13 PM

2018-04-04T16:13:20-04:00

You could try to appeal it. But remember awards are not saposed to be based off rank. The real question is who you pissed off for that to happen.

Response by SSG David Palomarez made Apr 4 at 2018 4:24 PM

2018-04-04T16:24:44-04:00

So I understand that you are upset. I am sure everyone have been screwed over one or more times why being in the Military. If you join just to get awards then ok stay pissed off. I can say yes I was happy when I didn't get awards at time. Because that was just more shit I had to put on my class A's. Now don't get me wrong it was nice to get recognized for what has been done.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 5:55 PM

2018-04-04T17:55:33-04:00

Suck it up and drive on. It sucks, but as a ssg awards really don’t do anything for you. ARCOMS and AAMs are handed out for everything. PCS awards are a give me award anyways, unless you warrant an MSM. There are still tons and tons of NCOs that walk out with an AAM and are fine with it. It sucks that your chain of command didn’t acknowledge your hard work, or they had a different view of your work than what your thoughts are. Either way it’s not going to change the outcome, so might as well move on.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 8:05 PM

2018-04-04T20:05:27-04:00

Same thing happened to me to a degree. My supervisor submitted an ARCOM for ETS. It went through the channels with minimal corrections needed. Corrections were made, it went through the channels again and disappeared. This was my ETS award. Not PCS. I received an AAM because the S1 NCOIC lost it.

Response by SPC Amber Velasquez made Apr 4 at 2018 8:42 PM

2018-04-04T20:42:28-04:00

It took me switching units 3 different times before I was recognized for my skills and what I did for each unit before I got an award. Now I'm out and I could give two fucks about any opinions or anything from my previous units

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-04-04T21:03:00-04:00

I would appeal it and back it up with your NCOERs for they do not lie. The point was already made but being in Korea for THREE years deserves an ARCOM at minimum. I left Korea with an ARCOM and was only there a year and did probably not even a quarter of the work you did. It’s your career so do what you want but someone messed you over. That’s why i personally “kiss ass” to everyone in S1 so as to not run into this problem. But being a generally nice person will get you far too.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 9:54 PM

2018-04-04T21:54:52-04:00

Put it behind you, and drive on. Nothing is gonna fix it, and nobody is gonna change it.

Response by SSG Russell Brown made Apr 5 at 2018 12:02 AM

2018-04-05T00:02:29-04:00

If you joined the Army to protect your country then any award should be relished. Ifyou went in the Army for accolades then you might want to embarrass yourself and try to appeal but a better move may be to get with officers near you next ETS and hope they will take care of you. Once you leave a post chances are few will remember you

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 12:16 AM

2018-04-05T00:16:53-04:00

Sorry to hear about that Staff Sergeant. You put in a lot of hard work. My hat's off to you.

Response by SFC Bob Lilley made Apr 5 at 2018 12:26 AM

2018-04-05T00:26:25-04:00

Seems like someone (unit clerk/1sg/etc) screwed the pooch and you in the cover up. Ya could send the original recommendation with the end results to the battalion S1 and ask why the downgrade. If you do you might get an upgrade.....ya might have it come back on you later on.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 2:25 AM

2018-04-05T02:25:56-04:00

Appeal it

Response by SGT James Saucier made Apr 5 at 2018 5:25 AM

2018-04-05T05:25:03-04:00

Write to the local congressman and have them question it threw the Brigade commander. Make sure you give them all the evidence. This can also be done via fax. At that point the Brigade commander will get involved and rite any wrongs,and do a little ass chewing along the way. Make sure you have the contact numbers listed as well and unit name. Good luck.

Response by PFC Josh Asakevich made Apr 5 at 2018 6:48 AM

2018-04-05T06:48:00-04:00

Tbh I always accepted my awards with a grain of salt and drive on however with your situation of actually being involved with your own award I would be quite upset about the situation. I know we don’t jump the chain of command but in this case it may actually be worth your while to speak personally with the brigade commander and explain to him/her what happened exactly along with providing any and all documented proof of submission dates etc. I did 10 years and still have not seen my broadsword awards which are given for every 3 years in service on top of accommodation medals and other various awards from serving in Iraq. I got out in 2006 due to a huge disagreement with my admin nco literally ruining my decision to continue my career. I mean if your best friends funeral was on a non drill day and you are attending that funeral only to get a phone call from your admin nco telling you if you go to that f*%+Ing funeral I will issue a warrant for your arrest. I mean come on talk about petty. Now I’m ranting. In all seriousness pursue the original award before it being downgraded. HOOAH

Response by MAJ Bill Savoy made Apr 5 at 2018 8:09 AM

2018-04-05T08:09:58-04:00

Be glad you even got put in for an award. A lot of soldiers who work their asses off never get put in for an award of any sorts. It is an written law in the army that if you work in an area of speciality that has nothing to do with your MOS then you are thought of as a worthless POS . I’m sorry to say this, but I’m sure your BTN CSM was the one who wanted it downgraded in order to protect his precious few. This is what usually happened when I would sign off on ARCOMS or Higher to go forward as a Company Commander. Your CSM’s are usually the ones who shoot down awards not Commanders.

Response by SSG Elvin Jimenez made Apr 5 at 2018 8:36 AM

2018-04-05T08:36:58-04:00

To me it goes to the fact not that you did or did not receive an award since I am not there to determine that but the fact that people did NOT do his/her job. People have awards, orders, and schools lost to someone not doing their job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-04-05T11:01:16-04:00

Two tours did my job at a high level and didn’t care about an ward. You are putting way to much effort towards this direct your attention to what is important

Response by SGT Lillian Ramirez made Apr 5 at 2018 12:25 PM

2018-04-05T12:25:50-04:00

We did the talks as well as the walk...with recognition or not. We proudly did more then our jobs.

Response by PFC Vic Berwick made Apr 5 at 2018 12:27 PM

2018-04-05T12:27:58-04:00

Doesn't freaking surprise me!

Response by SGT Kerri Lynn made Apr 5 at 2018 12:37 PM

2018-04-05T12:37:26-04:00

I know military awards are very important. I have an ARCOM and 2 AAM. But the ones I cherish most is the ones I got from my soldiers. Yeah we want recognition from the powers that be, but wants most important at to me was the respect from all the soldiers.

Response by PO3 Michael Larson made Apr 5 at 2018 12:53 PM

2018-04-05T12:53:46-04:00

Yes you should go Above the people that shot it down one step at a time. Starting with a respectful letter of inquiry. Get ahold of a jag officer, everybody jumps more when they know you are bringing out legal assistance

Response by PO3 Michael Larson made Apr 5 at 2018 1:10 PM

2018-04-05T13:10:31-04:00

People will octen go the extra mile to make others look bad or st least not as good for the following reasons: they are on a power trip, self fufilling prophecy, too lazy to do their job and bave to cover up when they dont, they think you make them look bad, and i'm sure there are still more reasons. They only way to rectify the problem, is for people to stand up for themselves and put them in the hot sit for they are the ones that destroy morale, and damage the service if not ,in fact, sabotage it.
Ok

Response by Joan Long made Apr 5 at 2018 2:28 PM

2018-04-05T14:28:16-04:00

Sorry about that, I’d fight it. My daughter is in a similar situation. All I can do is pray

Response by Cpl Franz Schendel made Apr 5 at 2018 2:37 PM

2018-04-05T14:37:51-04:00

Well, when I joined the military I join for my service to my Country. I didn't look for anything but to do my part. I was in the infantry. I did my part for the sake of my brothers at arms and I found it to be its own reward and very character building. It sounds to me that you have a lot of character yourself. My advice is to think about why you really do the things you do and realize, if you keep doing that which is right, then you will never fall short of your glory that is coming to you. I know it seems like a rip off right now but in the future people will remember you as a person that was a committed person, in spite of recognition, with honor in serving. Let it go. The honor is already yours. You don't need paper telling you that. A man that seeks glory has no glory. Like a forced birthday present.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 2:38 PM

2018-04-05T14:38:44-04:00

Write a memorandum to the bergaide commander for reconsideration

Response by PO2 Paul Dodd made Apr 5 at 2018 2:45 PM

2018-04-05T14:45:22-04:00

I would say FIDO. I was refused 2 Navy Achievement Medals because of my "bad attitude" toward superiors. I just kept on doing my job until I EAOS'd.

Response by PO3 Bj Heading made Apr 5 at 2018 3:04 PM

2018-04-05T15:04:17-04:00

I just wanted to thank you, Sarge, for all of the awesome work that you're doing and have done. Yeah, it's awesome to get a Bravo Zulu from the higher ups, it's the Soldier's in the trenches that are the fuzziest BZ's that count.

Response by SSG Debbie Worman made Apr 5 at 2018 3:49 PM

2018-04-05T15:49:02-04:00

This is a story that way to many soldiers can write. I have it happen to my soldiers, my counterparts, and myself. It is very prevelant, and I can not even begin to figure out how to get it fixed.

Response by PO1 Ben O'Dell made Apr 5 at 2018 3:52 PM

2018-04-05T15:52:16-04:00

I had an award denied by my parent command because my command did not submit it 90 days out. I received my orders a week before reporting to my new command..

Response by SSG Jill Main made Apr 5 at 2018 3:55 PM

2018-04-05T15:55:25-04:00

I would definitely contact someone in your S1 shop and find out what happened. Ask for a letter of recommendation from your old Cdr and 1SG regarding combatives and training Troops. If you were instructing combatives your name is prolly well known at the BN and BDE levels so go for the appeal, 100%. You're already a SSG so you don't need the points anymore, but the record. Your ERB is now your driving force- and you don't want it to say AAM x a million, ARCM 1. Know what I mean?

Response by PO2 Fredrick Samuel made Apr 5 at 2018 4:08 PM

2018-04-05T16:08:42-04:00

In my experience its best to drive on I fought for adwards after transferring commands and it bit me in the six to the point I lost rank

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 4:28 PM

2018-04-05T16:28:01-04:00

I wouldn't appeal it. Be grateful you got something at all. The experience you gained from the rigor you endured is priceless and will build you into a better person, leader, and soldier. The resonance you left with the people you impact is far more rewarding than any extrinsic award.

Response by CPL Jeremy Glenn made Apr 5 at 2018 4:29 PM

2018-04-05T16:29:47-04:00

At least they didn’t fight you on your cancer surgery, your ankle reconstructions, try to make you deploy with a tumor, actively keep you from going to wtb, and when that didn’t work (except keeping me from going to wtb) they tried to chapter me out while going through IDES. When that didn’t work they put in erroneous promotion paperwork and take away my DA Select promotion robbing me of about a thousand a month after I was medically retired at 80% army, 100% VA. I didn’t get anything but my DD214 from that unit. There are worse things than not getting a PCS award.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 4:36 PM

2018-04-05T16:36:57-04:00

My commands have done the same thing to me. Just walk it off you know your worth. Good luck bud

Response by SSG Stephen McCulley made Apr 5 at 2018 5:47 PM

2018-04-05T17:47:00-04:00

A lot of petty jealousy comes up on awards and who deserves what. What you deserve and get are up to higher to either do their job or pass the buck. Happens more especially with multi tours of duty. Paperwork list etc..

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 6:44 PM

2018-04-05T18:44:19-04:00

I’m In the same boat with terminal leave trying to ETS. Supposedly can’t take more than 30 days with NO POLICY put out. I IG’d that shit real quick because my unit had no supporting info to back themselves up. I’m still in this little pickle as we speak. My 1SG marked my da 31 and said “no more than 30 days is not an option.” Didn’t i even bother to send it up to the approving authority.(submitted over 30 days) so of course he’s NOT the approving authority. Til this day they have no supporting info to back them up. The army is all a bunch of stupid games .

Response by SPC James Goolsby made Apr 5 at 2018 6:58 PM

2018-04-05T18:58:06-04:00

Drive on & dont look back.!!!!! You. earned it & that is all that matters.!!!!!!AATW.!!!!!

Response by CPO Paul Klein made Apr 5 at 2018 7:30 PM

2018-04-05T19:30:12-04:00

It’s not really worth the extra frustration, and would make you look like a complainer who expects awards for your work, instead of doing a good job for its own sake. We’ve all been in your shoes, nothing will change.

Response by TSgt Glen Davis made Apr 5 at 2018 8:49 PM

2018-04-05T20:49:07-04:00

I had a similar problem, worked my ass off for years only to get screwed on rank , and when I tried to change career fields. My C O said no way I was to valuable , went over his head and got orders to my new career field and was imediatly promoted. Never looked back.

Response by SFC Ronny Horner made Apr 5 at 2018 9:49 PM

2018-04-05T21:49:10-04:00

Know what you mean. When I retired I refused to attend a retirement ceremony. My MSM was pulled because of my choice. No regrets. Loved my time in the Army and would do it all again.

Response by SSgt William Kennedy made Apr 5 at 2018 9:57 PM

2018-04-05T21:57:54-04:00

Well welcome to the army bs red tape did not get much more then that and served 20 yrs 3 yrs active and the rest army reservists and army national guard and all were good yrs I was put in for a solders ribbon never got it so I feel for ya

Response by SGT Rick Benge made Apr 5 at 2018 10:42 PM

2018-04-05T22:42:08-04:00

Same thing happens to me when I left Korea. Command changed and submitted it late. I was pissed too.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 10:43 PM

2018-04-05T22:43:37-04:00

Let me be the first to say that I'm sorry that happened to you and your rant is not unwarranted, on 20160411 I pulled a woman from a burning U-haul when I was on leave I gave my info to the fire chief and thought nothing of it. Later after getting home and relaxing for a little while it dawned on me what if they call my unit and let them know what happened, shit!

So I did what every JOE should do called my first line supervisor and gave him a heads up. He was stumped as to why he thought I needed to let him know ASAP to which I replied "I did not want to get in trouble". He was then even more stumped and even taken back "why in the fuck would you be in trouble!? Good fucking job and if you do get in trouble for this I'm going to put my rank down for you" he was an E5 at the time which ment a lot to me that he would do that for me.

I was later told that I was going to be put in for a Soldier's Medal need less to say alot of paper work was going to be needed, so 8 months goes by and I find out my squad leader never even started the paper on it because it was to much for him to be bothered with it. This pissed my team leader off so much that he took it into his own hands and so the packet himself, even after all that it's 20180405 and I still haven't heard anything about it. So I feel your pain but at least you got recognised for your effort and you should at least take that win over all.

Response by SFC Mark Biggs made Apr 5 at 2018 10:56 PM

2018-04-05T22:56:06-04:00

If we served for baubles of metal and cloth, I could understand your frustration. But we serve to defend the Constitution. Use this as an example of what NOT to do when you are the senior NCO writing the end of tour awards.

Response by COL Teresa Parsons made Apr 6 at 2018 12:02 AM

2018-04-06T00:02:45-04:00

While it feels harsh and demeaning to have an award downgraded, you KNOW the work you performed and the Soldiers who benefited from your training. Awards are not obligatory, so there really is no appeal process. Drive on and succeed. Remember this for your Soldiers in the future.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Apr 6 at 2018 3:21 AM

2018-04-06T03:21:52-04:00

Army Achievement Medal (AAM) I presume? What you wear on your chest has little to do with your career in the U.S. Military. Recognition is important, for sure. In MAR 1977 I completed Marine Corps Recruit Training with a “Meritorious Mast” (a letter and a notation in my Service Record Book) for being the only Recruit to achieve a perfect 300-Point “Final Physical Fitness Test” out of 285 Recruits who graduated with me. That was a moment in time: 20-pull-ups, 80-Sit-ups under 120 seconds and a three-mile times run in 17 minutes and 55 seconds...in Combat Boots.

I did not receive any other professional recognition until over 12 years later, in JUNE 1989!

What is important is to be known as “Competent” in your warfighting skills.

What you want in the reviewing officer’s remarks about your potential for future service is, “Possesses Unlimited Growth Potential. Demonstrates professional abilities expected in soldiers of more senior rank and experience. Ready for assignments off increased responsibility and complexity. Recommend deep selection in rank ahead of peers.”

You want to be PROMOTED. If you are recognized with an Award, be it one for Valor, Bravery or Distinction based on what your superiors & peers believe; not you.

By the time I received my very first recognition (Navy Achievement Medal; NAM), I had performed two previous job assignments with as much effort and and as much improvement in the billet. As “Legal Officer” in a 900-Marine Maintenance Squadron I “eliminated crime” with 19 successful Admin-Separations, 125 UCMJ Article 15 Hearings, three “Special Courts-Martial” referrals and one successful “Military Magistrate Hearing” that kept a dirt-bag busted Staff Sergeant in “Confinement” at th Paris Island Brig for trafficking cocaine in the air group.

I put so much fear into the hearts and minds of those who were still “innocent” that I ran out of work. That gave me more time to fly.

My next assignment was “Battalion Air Officer” (AO) & Assistant Operations Officer (S-3 Alpha) for a Marine Corps Rifle Battalion (3/2) from AUG 1985 to AUG 1986. I arrived at work BEFORE the Ops-O and did not leave till he left work.

I received great fitness reports which are the juice you want for promotion.

From 1976 to 1997 my personal awards were one NAM; the other three medals were the “Fire Watch National Defense Service Medal” (because Saddam invaded Kuwait), and the Liberation Of Kuwait Medals (one each from the Saudis & Kuwaitis).

I completed my career in 2008 with 17 decorations; the only other one that means as much to me as my Marine Corps Aviator Wings and my logbooks for flight-hours in the F-4, TA-4F/J, EA-6B & T-2C Aircraft is the Defense Meritorious Service Medal (DMSM) for work performed at Camp Delta, JTF-GTMO, Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, Cuba from MAY 2006 to MAY 2007.. I had been XO for 8 of 12 months and wrote the “Classified” operating instructions to conduct “Combatant Status Review Tribunal” (CSRT) hearings on Khalid Sheikh Mohamed and his 13-buddies during 2007. The usual “End Of Tour” recognition was the Joint Service Achievement Medal (JSAM) for enlisted members and the Joint Service Commendation Medal” (JSCOM) for commissioned officers. I found out later that the DMSM had been a peer recommendation. I remain very honored.

You got 25+ years ahead...be careful which battles to pick.

Response by Sgt Johnny McCalom made Apr 6 at 2018 3:57 AM

2018-04-06T03:57:09-04:00

Honestly as a POG .. I would appeal it and find out why all the dates don't jive with the date of it was submitted. The worst thing that can happen is they leave it down graded and give you some BS answer. As a Armor crewmen I would advise you to run the channels and see why it was late getting past the COC and not received by the BDE. As a Retired Marine .. I will tell you that this happens all the time. I have seen many times over where awards and letters are sat on until they are either totally ignored or down graded for no apparent reason other then some one dropped the ball and didn't want to face higher ups for their mistake. Myself and 2 corporals ran the S-1 even though there was another Sergeant and a SSGT there. And we had to pick up after those 2 clowns all the time. We would find many awards and such laid upon the SSGT desk that he would just toss aside. Then we would run the gauntlet to get them approved through the channels and have to come up with why they weren't delivered previously and properly. I had my ass handed to me numerous times over his failure to proceed and do his duty. Yet I took those verbal assaults and carried forward so that those Marines that deserved awards and medals got what they deserved. To bad not every person in all COC are like that.

Response by SPC Leslie Taylor made Apr 6 at 2018 3:57 AM

2018-04-06T03:57:26-04:00

While I was deployed, I worked on the awards team at division level. I'll let you know right now that what you received may not be what you deserved but just take it. I saw MSM's go through for people that I physically watched sleep through their shifts several times and soldiers below them had to do all of their work, and AAM's go through for soldiers that I watched work their asses off and do their job so efficiantly that it couldn't have been done so well by any other soldier. What makes an award get upgraded or down graded is what is on your DD 638. The accomplishments and citation is all the commander looks at.

Response by SPC David Saucier made Apr 6 at 2018 5:48 AM

2018-04-06T05:48:54-04:00

Why do you need an award for doing your job? Just take the award and deal with the fact you need any reward for some sense of self-gratification.

Response by SGM Donald Vance made Apr 6 at 2018 8:24 AM

2018-04-06T08:24:29-04:00

It happens, I was a 1SG in Germany, 11 months as an SFC none promotable, then a year later I was selected and promoted to E8, took over another company, as 1SG, held that position for 18 months, PCS to DIG, had another company as 1SG, I got my award from Germany, ARCOM. Now I had a couple MSMs. The Division CAM, I learned recommended downgrade of the award to an ARCOM. Said I was doing my job. He was correct. Moral of the story. Have pride in the many soldiers you taught how to defend themselves, they, I am sure remember you. That will stay with you forever! SGM (RET)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 8:46 AM

2018-04-06T08:46:18-04:00

If your award was originally submitted as an ARCOM, the only person who can down grade it is the approving authority (in your case the BDE CDR). The other commanders the award flows through provide recommendations. With thay being said, as a company commander, have returned awards to the recommenders because the achievements did not justify the award they were recommending. I gave them a chance to adjust either the achievements or the award type. I’ve had some leaders refuse to rework it and want to submit it as is. I simply recommended down grade and pushed it forward to the next commander.

Response by SPC William Wells made Apr 6 at 2018 9:41 AM

2018-04-06T09:41:54-04:00

Welcome to the real world, I did a few good things made it the paper twice, never got a thing but the people who were willing to kiss that as.. got all kinds of awards.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 11:02 AM

2018-04-06T11:02:35-04:00

I'm sorry bud, you sometimes have to just suck it up, even with all the hard work. It's what matters how you feel you have helped other Joe's out there to better there enlisted time... Awards are great but don't always rely on them. Pat yourself on your back and keep pushing. Thank you for your hard work...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 11:51 AM

2018-04-06T11:51:48-04:00

I say fight for what you feel that you deserve. As members we are too often told to let things slide. If this means something to you, go for it.

Response by Cpl Patrick Yarns made Apr 6 at 2018 4:44 PM

2018-04-06T16:44:41-04:00

You have a right to be upset and uptight, because you feel like you were in a mislead or misrepresented. I'd have felt the same way. It's bs like this trash,is one of the many reasons that I did my 4 year tour in the Marine Corps,got out and went into the Army National Guard for 10 and a half years afterwards. Now I'm a 50% disabled veteran who collects VA permanent disability. The best of wishes to you and your family. If I were you, I'd still fight for the proper award you feel you should be getting. It's no different than my situation. If I hadn't have kept on pursuing the VA off and on for 23 years altogether, I wouldn't be getting the permanent compensation that I'm receiving now.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2018 7:12 PM

2018-04-13T19:12:58-04:00

Perhaps the greatest flaw in the awards system is the notion that an award recommendation is dependent upon the rank of the would-be awardee. The thought of a MAJ DoLittle getting a participation BSM or MSM for far less effort that SGT HardCharger who received an ARCOM sickens me.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Apr 15 at 2018 8:22 PM

2018-04-15T20:22:21-04:00

Motrin and water, drive on

Response by SSG Lamert Adi made Apr 17 at 2018 1:41 AM

2018-04-17T01:41:00-04:00

I would just let it go, know who you are and grow with the experience... just make sure this doesn’t happen to another soldier. That is how I did it when shit happen to me and I have earned the respect and thankfulness of my soldiers for being there for them in their time of need... so just enjoy... and keep smiling.... because that will piss them off the most..

Response by MAJ Mark Anderson made Apr 22 at 2018 4:41 AM

2018-04-22T04:41:41-04:00

My first thought is that it was Napoleon who supposedly said, "Men will do almost anything for a bit of colored ribbon." Everyone experiences leaders that do not lead or who cannot get administrative stuff done in a timely manner. It helps us to appreciate the good leaders and command climates.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Apr 27 at 2018 6:45 PM

2018-04-27T18:45:04-04:00

SSG Showes - first of all, thank you and countless others showing up for work on time and doing your share (and sounds like other's share) of the workload.

Now to the issue at hand - take no offense at this comment but suck it up, say thank you, salute, execute a picture perfect about face, and get back to work! Medals, Awards, and personal recognition for a job well done is a contentious issue.

In 1994 I was the Supply Officer at Coast Guard Group Key West, FL. I had 6 other people in my the Supply Division and 8 Food Service Specialists in the Dining Facility. During the summer we saw the numbers of Cuban Migrants increase from 5-10 a day to 25 a day, the 50 a day and finally the flood gates opened and in July-August over 30,000 Cubans were intercepted at sea. Due to a shift in Washington (an election year) most of these people were delivered to GITMO instead of being given the special immigration status they were previously afforded.

With the help of my staff and 4 additional people sent to the base to help us we were tasked with setting up a Forward Operating Base (LOGISTICS) to eventually support the largest Amphibious Coast Guard Operation since WWII. Included in this were numerous Naval Vessels, 600 Marines, and at first developing and then providing each Cutter and Ship with an AMIO (Alien Migrant Interdiction Operations) Kit - including blankets, life jackets, food, Pedialyte (for rehydration of children), and other goods designed to aid and comfort the migrants until they were landed.

Supposedly to relieve us of the pressure of conducting our normal business of the Group Supply Department another CWO (Finance & Supply) and 4 Supply types were assigned to work the FOB side of the equation. This never happened as designed; my staff did the Lion's Share of the work; after the 30 day TDY visit by those 5 people we were still tasked with maintaining the AMIO Kits and "cleaning" up all the messes.

If anyone has a gripe about "Medals and Awards" it would be the people that carried out the brunt of the work - my augmented staff. The collectively were awarded a Coast Guard Team Award; and I a CGAM (same as an AAM). The TDY CWO (F&S) received two Coast Guard Commendation Medals for his 30 day TDY, despite not doing much of anything. I was told that's the way it was going to be.

As much as I didn't like the process and it hurt me personally to say it to the people who busted their asses, somehow telling them to take pride in the job they did wasn't anywhere near enough consolation. They did one hell of a job - I'll never forget how hard they worked.

So suck it up buttercup, take pride in what you did and move on...

Response by CDR Charlie Patterson made Apr 29 at 2018 6:14 PM

2018-04-29T18:14:45-04:00

I wouldn’t bother with it SSgt. There isn’t a service member around who, if he spent some appreciable time in the service, hasn’t had an award snafu. You had a downgrade from a com to an achievement level. I’ve had the same thing, and I’ve also had an award go from bronze star to zero. And I’ve had more than one tour, similar to the one you describe, end in no award at all. It’s just the nature of the system. It is nice to be recognized, but always keep in mind what you serve for.

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made May 2 at 2018 12:19 PM

2018-05-02T12:19:27-04:00

Hey SSG, I feel your anger; however, a great leader isn't defined by what he wears on his uniform (BDU or ACU) or by what fantastic letters or awards he has accumulated. A great leader such as yourself is defined by the pride he takes in helping his fellow soldiers! A great leader such as yourself doesn't need an "award" because the "rewards" of a job well done that may save lives isn't something you can wear on a uniform. What you do and have done can't be recognized by a ribbon or pin placed strategically on a uniform, and even in the event you had gotten what you rightly deserved less than half of the people whom would have seen it wouldn't even know what it's for. The only recognizable awards that even civilians know is the "purple heart and the CMH." Your producing an excellent product don't change the process because of the military way of doing things. Keep producing a good product and in time your reward/award will present itself when you least expect it.
Soldier on! HOOAH!!!!
P.S. I've seen uniforms with more colors than Crayola crayons attached to people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions written on the heel.

Response by PO2 Killashandra Leigh made May 6 at 2018 1:47 PM

2018-05-06T13:47:13-04:00

For what it's worth I can relate to what you're dealing with. Back in 1991, I was a senior E-5 in my Division, a qualified Sonar Supervisor, along with being in charge of both Divisional Training and Search Plan Development. When we returned home from a 5 month SpecOp Deployment, I was put in for a Navy Achievement Medal, but had it reduced to a CincLant LOC by the Dept. Head. I personally think it was out of spite because I, along with my entire watch section, were instrumental in getting him relieved for cause. Two years later when I transferred after 7 years on the boat, I was once again up for a NAM as a EOT award, and it was reduced to a Sublant LOC. While I was exrtremely disappointed, and more than a bit pissed off, I looked at it that NONE of the colored ribbons on my chest mattered. I'm a Dolphin Owner, and THAT is more sacred to me than medals and ribbons.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2018 6:16 PM

2018-05-06T18:16:21-04:00

There in "NO RIGHT TO RECEIVE ANY AWARD." A senior commander will almost always concur with the subordinate commander's recommendation. Personally, I never cared about awards or as far as that's concerned, I didn't care about EERs and OERs.

I cpalways considered it my responsibility to complete this mission given me and hope my commanders due my mission. So I thought I needed to let them do theirs. It worked for me. All my promotions on time or below the zone. I picked up 4 ARCOMS and 2 MSMs.

Additionally, I've known to many GIs who didn't get combat awards,

At least that's the way this "Old Soldier Sees it's.

Response by SPC Robert Gilhuly made May 7 at 2018 9:09 AM

2018-05-07T09:09:22-04:00

Been there done the same, knowing in your heart what you did is the only way to be happy with it. I was put in for MSM as well, never received a thing, I say piss on them, and move forward, God bless you, and thank you for you service brother !

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 1:32 PM

2018-05-13T13:32:31-04:00

Your leaders thought enough to give you an award out of appreciation; awards are not mandatory.

I would understand if you were having this conversation privately with your closest buddies; however doing so publicly diminishes you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 3:09 AM

2018-05-23T03:09:35-04:00

The best answer I could give is just drive on and forget about it. The battle isn't worth it. I will give a couple of example from my 24 yrs. About 10 yrs ago I was a new medic and took over the EMT section of a CSH. Other then having several years in leadership I had no idea how to run this sections since I reclassified into 68w. Took my unit through deployment and ran the sectiins without issues. I was put in for an ARCOM was given an COA. While every award I put in for others got approved. When I said something I was later given the unsigned 638 back by my OIC bacause they didn't feel like doing it. The other was one of those if haven't received a lower one we aren't going to give you the higher one. By that I was put in for an ARCOM as a SPC and because it was my 1st awd they wouldn't approve the higher one. My point is it isn't worth it even thought it is just the point that you did the work and someone just sits around and doesn't feel like doing it.

Response by SFC Rich Bright made May 24 at 2018 9:11 PM

2018-05-24T21:11:54-04:00

I served 1 tour in Desert Storm and 2 tours in Iraqi Freedom, was passed over for a Bronze Star two of those deployments. Even though I was on Advance Party for my BN, and twice for the BDE, plus I served in positions well above my pay grade, they were all downgraded to due to my rank. IE: All E-6 got one and another time, all E-7 got awarded one. So after 5 AAM and 4 Arcoms, I never was awarded a Bronze Star. It bothered me, but in the end, it never stopped me from topping promotion list or increase my retirement pay. But, as I look back, I am proud of my service and have moved on. You should too.... Keep doing a great job...

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Jun 1 at 2018 6:33 AM

2018-06-01T06:33:59-04:00

As an Army Reservist, deployed 2 years to LRMC, came home to my USAR, 328th CSH in SLC, & found that my final OER from AD, which was a promote above, walk on water, etc, had been attempted to be superceded by an OER from my USAR system, by people I hadn't seen in 2 years & who were not on AD with me. It was a completely fraudulent OER/NCOER situation for all of us (approx 100 personnel) who needed OER's/NCOER's. It happened. The brain dead/no backbone/no knowledge folks at my CSH had been ordered by the 2 star USAR over that hospital/regional support said DO THE OER"S OR WE"RE DEFICIENT but none of them seemed to know or attempt to know that the USAR system for OER/NCOER's did NOT TALK TO the AD system, & so they couldn't see that all of our OER/NCOER's had been done & filed from LRMC! So, the lemmings headed for a cliff that they never went over & never paid a price for writing fraudulent OER/NCOER's. I warned as many as I could by email, & in my case, my AD OER"S during deployment stuck, as I came up for an0-6 promotion board the next month & my AD OER"s were there. The well was dry, I didn't trust anybody at the 328th home unit to be responsible, & I retired shortly after. In fact when I talked with the 328th XO (APR '07), & asked why this POS generic, fraudulent OER was in my record instead of the real one? He answered that that was what they'd been ordered to do, & NO, he wasn't going to do anything about it (this was 4 months after we re-deployed). Can't even remember the a**hole's name, but he was an LTC at the time. The AD, accurate, OER's/NCOER"s were in a file folder on top of a vacant desk in the S-1 office, which I also told to the XO. Not interested.
I'm sorry you didn't get your almost certainly justified awards. Somethimes you're dealing with a**holes, sometimes with incompetents, & sometimes with people too exhausted with dealing with their circumstances to be fully engaged.
Did I get a retirement award? Hell no & in this case, I wouldn't have wanted one.

Response by SSG Randall Ford made Jun 1 at 2018 10:03 AM

2018-06-01T10:03:29-04:00

Most of the awards I ever saw given were to those that sucked up the most and most of those had very poor job ethics. I saw this SP4 take a cheesecake into the CO (2LT) saying I heard about your traffic accident sir am I am so sorry (very miner fender bender but not the point). The butter bar actually took it with smiles and giggles with a thank you. The first shirt was a guy that seemed like he was from the cival war day. Always on leave or taking college courses. This SP4 got to go to a DEA course, air assault school (we had no need for either being a small MP unit at Walter Reed AMC in DC. He finally got to go to the MWD Narcotic detector school after I had left.

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Jun 11 at 2018 10:12 AM

2018-06-11T10:12:37-04:00

The awards system is broken, and the BN/BDE are overwhelmed with all manner of paperwork and tend to treat awards as last minute taskers. In many units, the S1 simply doesn't care unless there is someone acting as an advocate to follow and push the award through. You could politely ask 'WTF?', but I can almost certainly guarantee that you will not get an answer. The Army routinely drops the ball on recognizing the hard work of its soldiers, unless you are an officer and are in a position of responsibility, and then the officer will be given an award for the hard work of their soldiers, regardless of their own skillset. I have submitted countless awards for approval, only to have them disappear, never to be heard from again. Other awards were downgraded as the awarding authority relied on metrics saying that too many ARCOMS had been awarded, or that an E3 doesn't rate an ARCOM, regardless of the work they did. Saved the Army $175,000 as an E4 by streamlining ordering and sharing excess equipment and trading with other units? AAM. Being the officer in charge of that Specialist and not knowing what they did or in general having a clue? ARCOM. You know what you did, your fellow soldiers know what you did, so you can feel good about the contributions you made. It is unfortunate that your command chose to ignore those accomplishments and downgrade your award. And the Army wonders why no one wants to put in that extra effort, because there is no recognition or chance of advancement (personal or professional) and no recognition of the extreme time and effort put in to do a good job. Thanks for your hard work, you influenced and trained a lot of soldiers, providing instruction and certification that was important to them. Don't let it get you down, and unfortunately it will likely happen again, but you did it for your soldiers, not the award. Recognition from your peers and higher would have been nice and helped your career, but the Army dropped the ball.

Response by 1SG Angelo Villavicencio made Jun 14 at 2018 12:04 PM

2018-06-14T12:04:00-04:00

SSG Showes, I would not appeal it. The Army awards systems is and always will be a volatile friction point and very emotional. Your experience is very unfortunate and for all your achievements and endeavors you should have been taken care off. Hopefully all your efforts were addressed in your NCOER where it matters the most. You want to fight, always focus on your NCOER, make sure you are absolutely your best in black and white! As far as the PCS's award, you have now become more educated in the awards system than many of those appointed above you and you should be proud of that! Also, because any Soldier assigned under you will definitely be taken care off. You write well and express your concerns well. Consider yourself an asset to your new unit and smile you have left a void of talent with your previews one.

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Jun 15 at 2018 9:50 AM

2018-06-15T09:50:09-04:00

I don't know how the Army does promotions but what's the difference when it comes time for promotions? Do those medals carry the same weight? IF they are the same, I'd be pissed but I would drive on still mad though. Same thing happened to me in Korea and I chose to drive on.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Jun 15 at 2018 4:27 PM

2018-06-15T16:27:14-04:00

Awards downgraded by a higher command is typical. Most are downgraded by general officers even if recommended by a colonel. Accept your award and drive on. More will come with hard work and time. I got my first awards in Vietnam but getting a medal after it was very hard. I busted my ass to get my second ARCOM as being recongnized by the division commander as the best rifle squad in the division after a privious 1SG in the same unit tried to kick me out by going over his head. I just soldiered harder and left Germany with 2 OLC and the last name on the secondary list for E-7. Go Airborne Units, Ranger SF or CAG if you want medals and you will earn them if you don't get killed.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2018 1:01 PM

2018-06-17T13:01:03-04:00

Appeal an award? That’s a bit extreme. I wouldn’t recommend it, especially since arriving at a new unit. It’ll give your new unit the impression that you believe you have the sense of entitlement. I know it’s common practice to have PCS awards but that’s where the expectations and entitlements come from. You should receive the award immediately following the exemplary performance. If you’re not happy with what you received, I’d look at the award criteria in your regulations. There are specifics your performance must meet or it will get downgraded. If you’re expecting another PCS award following your tour at your new unit, I’d recommend writing the award yourself, providing plenty of support data. Nothing in the regs says you can’t submit your own award recommendation. In addition, it takes time the burden out of your supervisor’s hands. Sometimes they’ll just agree with your recommendation and move your award up the chain for approval.

The bottom-line is I wouldn’t recommend appealing an award. Just suck it up buttercup, we’ve all been shorted on an award at one time or another.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jun 18 at 2018 1:36 AM

2018-06-18T01:36:57-04:00

Suck it up and drive on. Appeal will get you no where in my opinion. I made E-7 with a good conduct medal and Jump wings. Get school and do your job. Cream will rise to the top, given time.

Response by SGT Jason Mouret made Jun 18 at 2018 10:59 AM

2018-06-18T10:59:36-04:00

I was put in for a Valor award in 05, as a Spc. because my Plooton Sgt couldnt handle anyone having awards higher than him, and he tried writing himself up for the award, both went in the trash. Yea, I feed robbed. I myself would appeal it, because I never had the chance to.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2018 6:24 PM

2018-06-18T18:24:10-04:00

First off if you think they "gave" it to you....you don't deserve it.....it should be earned.

Second look TIS, TOS awards are a stange creature.....if you had anything happen in the period it could have triggers the downgrade.....pt failure, LOC, verbal warning, etc.

Third.........if it means a lot to you fight it.......if it's just promotion points let it go there will be more opportunities.....in the end of your career no one cares about your medals .....sorry but its true

Best of luck

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-06-18T19:35:23-04:00

I hate to say this brother but if you're doing it for the awards you're doing to for the wrong reason. You know what you did, the accomplishments you achieved, and more importantly the impact you made on soldiers. In comparison to what you have done, the awards means nothing. Continue to be all you can be.

Response by SFC Ritchie Inns made Jun 21 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-06-21T23:21:44-04:00

Everybody has units like this one. Everyone has a story to share. I feel your pain. I spent five years in the Des Moines Recruting Battalion in the mid-nineties. I converted a small station to a large station, became a Master Trainer, then took me on the largest Recruiting station in a two I state area. I got so burnt out from being on the bag for 8 1/2 years that I was tired. When I tried to go back to the Infantry, I was relieved of duty. I had to ETS with 16 1/2 years on active duty and a SFC just to get out of there. My award was a plaque that said thanks a lot. It made good firewood. I persevered, came back in five years later and retired with 24 years. Bottom line... You can appeal it, and you should, but it will go nowhere. Out of sight, out of mind. Good luck!

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Jun 23 at 2018 1:27 AM

2018-06-23T01:27:11-04:00

I knew a very few guys that got ARCOMs during my tour of active duty and probably didn't earn them, and a few more that deserved them and did not receive them. (Both my opinions) Was part of an "extra alert" when the Eastern Bloc invaded Czechoslovakia in August of '68, and we all took up positions at the Western German border to prevent further "incursions", but insofar as I'm aware, no-one got an individual or unit award for that. Guess it fell into the "do your damn job" category. Really sad to see all those folks fleeing in their vehicles up the autobahn, waving to us and cheering us on. They obviously thought we were going to kick the Russians and everyone else that invaded their country out. Little did they know that they'd have to wait until 1989....

Response by COL Mike Walton made Jun 24 at 2018 3:06 PM

2018-06-24T15:06:34-04:00

Appeal the award to the first General Officer in your chain. Have someone else you trust to write the letter of appeal. Do not be a whiner - have that person to state the facts about your performance and service. Enclose ALL of the documents, including the letter of lateness, and then let it go. Don't request a specific award, just that a review of the recommendation be made and an award be granted.

I had a MSM downgraded to an ARCOM because "lieutenants don't get MSMs" My Division commander thought, after reviewing everything and while I was a member of a different unit, something different. He upgraded the ARCOM to a MSM and sent me a star note and coin thanking me for my service to his command and the military community.

Response by 1LT B. Long made Jun 24 at 2018 7:37 PM

2018-06-24T19:37:45-04:00

If it was me, I wouldn't. I never thought of going after awards, medals or ribbons when I joined the Army. I only thought of doing my duty to the best of my ability and serve my country. That was enough for me and I enjoyed my tour of active duty in the Infantry. I did end up reaping the benefits of serving however. I never had a problem find a job in civilian life with military service on my resume and I have one badge of honor I cherish most, being acknowledge as a veteran.

Response by SGT Jeremy Boyd made Jun 27 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-06-27T11:25:28-04:00

My 1SG and CO got Bronze Stars for deployment awards and all they did was jerk each other off in a trailer and conceive of schemes to pull soldiers off of missions for their own amusement. Yes, you should appeal.

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Jun 27 at 2018 2:38 PM

2018-06-27T14:38:11-04:00

The BDE CDR should have reviewed it and any comments justifying a downgrade. Unfortunately this happens all the time especially with Company Cdrs denying an award not reading they don't have the authority. You have nothing to lose by reaching out to the BDE CDR since I don't think you'll get traction from BN.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jun 30 at 2018 3:39 AM

2018-06-30T03:39:26-04:00

In the long run, the NCOER is far more important - if that looks good, the award is just a frustration point. I learned early that no one looks out for me like I look out for me. For the last 13 years of my career, I wrote all of my own NCOERs and awards, then gave them to my supervisor for revision / adaptation / shredding. This served me well. I had a few supervisors who threw out my input and started from scratch, but most of the time the end product was pretty similar to what I gave them - and I always started early so I could cue them to get the ball rolling and meet unit timelines.

But the biggest takeaway from this for you SHOULD be to make DAMNED sure this never happens to one of your Soldiers. Submit early, save a copy, require DA 200s, and follow up often.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-07-03T12:49:12-04:00

Go to IG. They will guide you. But... per AR 600-8-22, only the final approving authority can downgrade an award. Everyone else can RECOMMEND downgrade, but the final approving authority is the only one who can downgrade an award. You need to bring your DA638 as proof as an unofficial downgrade.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jul 3 at 2018 3:13 PM

2018-07-03T15:13:49-04:00

I see how it's frustrating not getting the medal you were expecting. Basically feels like a kick in the teeth. Long story short the only medal I got of that type is an AAM (Air Force Achievement Medal) from my deployment. But from dealing with decorations a little bit when I was in the biggest difference is medals is how many points they are worth when going up for a promotion. The language in the body of the decoration should be very similar.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Sep 3 at 2018 12:41 PM

2018-09-03T12:41:09-04:00

No, First for you to be P.O'd. You must feel you deserve it. As a soldier you do not deserve a PCS award unless you are doing the unit a favor above the call of duty by leaving the Unit. You should be looking at why they did not recommend you for an award while you were doing the job. Awards are designed for actions above what is expected of you. It is expected of you to do your very best at any
assignment that is given. I made e-7 with a couple of Good conduct medals as my highest award, I made E-8 with a couple of AAM. maybe an ARCOM. I got my only MSM as a 1SG. I never wore on my uniform. But I had Airborne, Air Assault, maxed out points on Correspondence courses, I got two Degrees while in the army and was in leadership roles for about 17 1/2 years of my career. What have you done that was above the normal duty assigned to you? How have you stood out head and shoulders above the rest, that is what you deserve an award for, and you will get it if you deserve it, maybe.

Response by SFC Patrick Kite made Sep 3 at 2018 3:00 PM

2018-09-03T15:00:01-04:00

IAW AR 600-8-22, Table 3-2, Delegation of award approval authority - peacetime criteria, since an ARCOM & AAM can be approved / downgraded / disapproved by a COL or above, and Co Cdr can’t downgrade due to no authority for lesser award and would only be able to RECOMMEND a downgrade / disapproval and pass it on to the COL for their apprv / dwngrd / disapprv. Side note: when recommending an award, it is better to shot for the stars by recommending an award at least one or two levels above the recommender’s actual award recommendation based on whether a lower commander may recommend downgrade or disapproval at a lower level then the actual award. Know your unit and what will and wouldn’t fly. If you believe that some injustice or legal error occurred see AR 600-8-22 and then go forward to get corrected. It is your career, isn’t it?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2018 2:13 PM

2018-09-04T14:13:59-04:00

IMO any award or recognition should be welcomed with humility, gratitude, and honor. To do otherwise minimizes the sacrifices of others and breeds self-serving careerism. If everyone got an award in life, they would become insignificant. Write a few if you haven't, and it may add perspective.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2018 2:15 PM

2018-09-04T14:15:51-04:00

I'm probably getting a JSAM when I PCS (joint equivalent of an AAM) and I don't even care. I'm surprised I'll get that from my supervisor honestly. It sucks not to get recognized but it's not mandatory to get a PCS award and at the end of the day, when you and the Army are done with each other, does it really matter?

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Sep 4 at 2018 3:19 PM

2018-09-04T15:19:13-04:00

I don't think there's an actual process to appeal an award downgrade. That being said, there's nothing stopping you from contacting the guy who signed the downgrade and asking "why"?

When I was a Commander, that was my philosophy - if I was doing something that impacted Soldiers, I'd better be able to answer the question, "Why?" Why are we staying until 1900 for vehicle maintenance? Why are we going to field for a month when we're set to deploy in three months? Why did you deny my tuition assistance? Why did you max me on this UCMJ? Why? Commanders aren't required to GIVE an answer, but they damn sure better have one.

I'd just ask "why"?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2018 5:46 PM

2018-09-04T17:46:12-04:00

I’m pretty sure that you can’t “appeal” an award? At the end of the day an award is just that, an award granted by the approval authority and processed by the adjutant. No one is “entitled” to an award. I was given some advice a long time ago, awards will always balance out. There will be times you get more than you deserve and others when you get less than you think you deserve. Accept it with grace an humility, no one likes someone who acts “entitled” to an award.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2018 6:21 PM

2018-09-04T18:21:55-04:00

So as a person in S-1 and having just left command, I will say the unit ultimately failed you. That's not to say that the award did or did not warrant downgrade. That is solely up to the approving authority. So yes you are correct in the fact that it would have had to go up to BDE to ultimately be downgraded. However, if the company level hid the lateness and submitted an AAM without the original recommendation being sent up, not only are they in the wrong, but a severe distrust of Soldiers in the future. Too many times we see awards become late and then people try to get it downgraded or re-written to not face the music of BDE standards. I cant speak for what happened in this case. But there is also not a lot you can do to fight it. Award system although heavily flawed in the US Army is subjective. I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is a shame leaders at all levels do not take pride in making sure their Soldiers are taken care of. I made it my legacy to have 0 late awards. If it wasn't for the fact of two Soldiers receiving PCS orders well before their projected loss date, I would have been at 100%. Our policy was 180 days prior to projected loss date. Perhaps your next unit will value you more than your last one did. As sad as it is sometimes we just have to forget the bad ones. Keep this in mind though, don't hold a grudge at your new unit. They were not responsible, so have faith you will be taken care of properly in 3-5 years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2018 12:46 PM

2018-12-22T12:46:11-05:00

Sounds like a combination of laziness and lack of concern on their part.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2019 5:56 AM

2019-03-18T05:56:28-04:00

There is never a good reason for a late award but if happens. Your supervisor failed you. He should have submitted for a MSM if that what he thought and submitted it on time. 30
Days - AAM; 60 Days - ARCOM; 90 Days - MSM and 120 Days - LOM. I submitted my S1 NCOIC (a SSG) for a BSM downrange and he was awarded it.

The Company Commander cannot downgrade anything. He can only recommend downgrade. The BN CDR can only downgrade an ARCOM if the BDE CDR has given that authority. It seems right that you are right frustrated. You this as motivation to never let your subordinates down. Make sure their awards are submitted on time and written properly.

Response by LT Christopher Miller made Oct 18 at 2020 2:34 PM

2020-10-18T14:34:37-04:00

Does having the award help you with promotion?

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Jan 20 at 2021 11:12 AM

2021-01-20T11:12:52-05:00

Your value and worth does not equate to any award. No value in contesting the award.
Focus on your performance and bonds at the new unit having learned from the gaps at the old. Advocate to better the new unit with lessons from the old unit.
You know your contributions and worth. Press on. There’s more opportunities to excel and be rewarded in the future.

Response by SFC Keith Gardner made Jan 22 at 2021 8:20 PM

2021-01-22T20:20:08-05:00

“Welcome to the Army awards system.” If only I had a nickel for every time I heard it and a dime for every time I said it, I’d skip the café and get the free cup of joe from the chow hall. Your NCO support channel let you down. Ask me how I wound up with 5 ARCOMs. 4 downgraded MSMs and 1 downgraded Bronze Star. My hunch is that you were an out of sight, out of mind NCO. How often did you see your first line supervisors, 1SGs and CSMs in your 3 years at Walker/Henry? I’ve never heard of appealing a downgraded medal. Yeah, you got ripped off. Stay angry for 5 minutes and then drive on. As a Staff Sergeant you’re expected to push troops and rate one or two buck Sergeants. As a Staff Sergeant your centralized promotion boards want to see a series of solid quantified NCOERs and they won’t even notice a downgraded award. One of the best things I learned how to do in the Army was write — a skill too often overlooked in the enlisted ranks. I wound up getting PSGs and Platoon Leaders asking me to review/edit/rewrite NCOERs and Award recommendations. You have to take command of your own “career.” No one else will. I don’t mean for any of this to be a put down. What’s done is done. The greatest thing an NCO does is not fight, but training his/her troops to fight — hard. How many Soldiers went through your Combatives course in those three years? Hundreds? Thousands? I’ll wager you a cup of cold coffee in a paper cup in the rain that you imparted a skill set in a great many of those Soldiers and it paid dividends in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember their faces, because your training most likely saved the life of one of them. “It is enough to have done my duty, and take comfort in my conscience.”

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Mar 4 at 2021 10:30 PM

2021-03-04T22:30:50-05:00

I know exactly how you feel. I'm not patronizing you at all. It sucks when you work your ass off and it doesn't seem appreciated. You are probably right on the reason for the AAM. CYA by the commander most likely. But, consider this way of looking at it. Why do you serve? Do you serve yourself or do you put the mission and your soldiers first? You know what you did. Being satisfied knowing you did your duty and did it well is a reward only you can set the value to. When I look back at my career I can tally up a bunch of stuff that would have supported an award, but those awards never came. At the same time I think of why I served and the satisfaction and pride I have for the things I know I did and the growth I gained as a man. In the end, it isn't the ribbons in the rack or the coins or the medals hanging on my wall that matter most. Who I became, the contributions I made, and the values I did my best to live up to that matter most. I'm not trying to be patronizing, just offering another way of looking at this.

Response by SFC Kurt Brunken made Oct 7 at 2021 8:59 AM

2021-10-07T08:59:19-04:00

Appeal the award, whats the worst that can happen. LOL