Should I report leaders who provided alcohol to underage soldiers?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:13:26 -0500

I received a field grade article 15 for drinking a 12 pack of beer with a couple soldiers who turned out to be underage, they both received summarized article 15's, I was recommended for the field grade by my PL and PSG. A couple months later they have a holiday party and supplied all the privates with a keg and hard alcohol, I took pictures of them drinking with minors (including the two minora I drank with) any guidance on what I should do? Report it? Or let it go?

Response by SFC Marc W. made Jan 9 at 2019 8:19 PM

SFC Marc W. — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:19:31 -0500

I would never discourage someone from doing the right thing. If you were to report such a thing, I would ask for a PCS or inter unit transfer. It's terribly hypocritical if things are as you say. Just be aware that there is going to be some severe boo boo face and probably some attempt at reprisal.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Jan 9 at 2019 8:54 PM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:54:22 -0500

Don’t be a fuckin’ rat! Nobody likes a tattletale.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 9:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:55:26 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I think this is a defining moment in your leadership development.

In all, shoot your best shot and be prepared to stand on “the carpet” and defend your actions. This is your lesson to learn. Best thing I can do is introduce you to Realville. Realville is where we do real things and deal with both the intended and unintended effects.

One of my guiding rules is, “How would this sound in a counseling statement?” As in, if my leadership read what I did or didn’t do in a certain situation to me, would I be satisfied with what was read?

Follow your heart young soldier, and develop through the experience.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 9 at 2019 10:04 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:04:47 -0500

Usually, I would say it's just drinking. However, you were held to a certain standard and so the leadership should be held to at least the same standard. I would report it to at least your immediate higher leadership. At a minimum, something can be done to change your situation. If nothing is done to the leadership at that point I think you can take it outside of that group. There is never a reason why soldiers should be held to one standard while leadership is allowed to run roughshod over them at their whim.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 10:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:33:19 -0500

I believe they already set the standard of expectations in regards to underage drinking with their treatment of your situation. Are we as lower enlisted not required to meet the standards? No one likes a rat, but are you a rat for living with integrity? I think you know what the right thing to do is here. Best of luck brother.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 10:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:41:36 -0500

Use the BC'S open door policy and report it. Explain to him that you received an article 15 for the same offense that your leadership is encouraging. Proceed to submit an IG complaint for favoritism. Leadership is not "oh just follow the rules when its convenient " Your leadership who provided the alcohol at the function need to receive at least the same punishment as you. My .2 cents

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 11:52 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 23:52:49 -0500

Respectfully, be smart about this. What do you have pictures of? People drinking...something. Good luck proving what was in the cups. ‘But the bottle said Jack Daniels on it!’, you say. ‘I filled it with apple juice’, they’ll say.

Sounds stupid, but ultimately, you have pictures of people drinking stuff. And it’s impossible to prove what it was. And you will have earned the wrath of those you told on. Don’t fall prey to the same thinking that people with speeding tickets have. “Why did I get a ticket for doing 75 in a 60, when people were flying past me at 85, and they didn’t get pulled over??”

It’s a sh*t sandwich, for sure. But you broke you rules, and you were punished accordingly. Others got away with it. Such is life. You learned a hard, valuable lesson in how NOT to act, especially when you become an NCO.

Best of luck.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jan 10 at 2019 12:43 AM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 00:43:10 -0500

Looks like a double standard to me. I say if your old enough to die for your country your old enough to drink. The drinking age used to be 18 voting age 21. that has been reversed The thought back then was old enough to die for your country old enough to vote. I don't see anything wrong with drinking at 18 under supervision. If you are on Base you are on federal property. Off base another story. I sympathize with you. I wont tell you what to do, that is another story. Semper fi.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jan 10 at 2019 1:48 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 01:48:55 -0500

I would let it go........you know why? Because your a Specialist giving alchol to minors on your own time unsupervised. Company functions are supervised. I think that is the difference if I had to step back and logically analyze this.

Technically in either case the minors should not be allowed to drink but again, thats a call by your Chain of Command. So this is roughly analogous to throwing a party at your Parents house without your Parents knowledge while they are away on vacation versus your Parents throwing the party for you. One is a bigger transgression than the other if you ask me.

I would file it away as a RHIP (Rank Has Its Priveleges) Article 15. BTW, you do know in years past you didn't really have to transgres to get an Article 15, back in the 1980s and 1970's, Common for a Marine PSG to give you a "just because" Article 15. The because reason being is that your record was too clean without one........thats a fact, I almost landed one of those by my former Marine PSG when I was in the Army. Exercised some smart diplomacy via the PL to stop it from happening.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 3:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 03:14:54 -0500

Is there anything else to add to the story?
I am not saying anything negative, I just like to get the facts.

Was there an incident involved when you and the underage guys drank together?

I received a FG for an alcohol related incident, and I was pretty salty that alcohol continued to remain a staple in the military.

In all honesty, I had a major incident when I was drinking that lead to the FG. Not too long after that, I was also accused of something EXTREMELY petty after I consumed.

I deserved the FG, I admit that. I did not deserve the negative attention over the petty situation.

The way I see it, alcohol is just not for me anymore. I do not drink anymore and I do not miss it. I also harbor no hard feelings to anyone who drinks at functions etc.

So to the point, is there more to the story of when you drank with the underage guys?

PM me if you need someone to chat with.

Response by SGT David T. made Jan 10 at 2019 11:50 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:50:20 -0500

Under normal circumstances I would say ignore it. However, I hate hypocrites so I'd report em and let em burn. Just be aware that they will probably retaliate.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 10 at 2019 11:52 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:52:34 -0500

When I was a PVT the drinking age was 18, so we didn't have these issues.
Later in life I found it very hard to get excited about the Soldiers drinking as long as they weren't tearing stuff up and enforced the standard only because it was the standard (whether you agree or not, standards must be enforced) and yes my recommendations were for light punishments for 1st offenders in cases where no one was hurt, or no property damaged, and they were just drinking.
So in my opinion turn them in to your 1SG and Commander, they are setting a bad example, being biased as they punished one Soldier and disregarded / enabled others to be in violation and aren't enforcing standards.
That said either be ready for the shit storm that will follow and be prepared to catch heck from your peers, and no doubt some NCOs or request a transfer out of the unit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 2:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:24:52 -0500

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and let it go. I believe you will hurt yourself more in the long run if you pursue this. How did my mother used to say it... Cut off your nose to spite your face.

Response by SPC John Decker made Jan 10 at 2019 4:29 PM

SPC John Decker — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:29:09 -0500

When I was in, you could legally drink, on base, as long as you were a sm. The 21 age was not nationwide. When they changed the rules, the responsibilities changed. REPORT THEM!

Response by SGT Leigh Barton made Jan 10 at 2019 4:58 PM

SGT Leigh Barton — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:58:31 -0500

Either set the drinking age at 18 or raise the minimum enlistment age to 21. Being old enough to wear a uniform and too young to drink has never been acceptable. TO ANY ONE!!!! If a man isn't old enough to decide he wants a drink, he's not old enough to decide that he can risk his @$$ for his country. These troops could be in the ground tomorrow. Two things I wouldn't want them to go into the ground without doing, male or female. Getting drunk and getting laid. The beer I can do something about. Any questions?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 5:48 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:48:57 -0500

So I have to ask, because JAG will, too:
Are you sure the people they were drinking with minors? The presence of alcohol around minors is not a crime. We had alcohol supplied at all our unit events, even when minors are present, but of course only the ones that were of age partook. Do the pictures show leadership physically drinking alcohol alongside another person who is known to be underage also physically drinking alcohol? Not all Privates are minors, and not all minors are Privates (I knew a 35 year old Private when I was in Japan lol). So make sure before you go into this that you have as many facts as you have.

Response by SGT Leigh Barton made Jan 10 at 2019 7:12 PM

SGT Leigh Barton — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 19:12:16 -0500

These troops could be in the ground tomorrow. Two things I wouldn't want them to go into the ground without doing, male or female. Getting drunk and getting laid. The beer I can do something about. Any questions?

Response by SP5 Lori Pong made Jan 10 at 2019 9:17 PM

SP5 Lori Pong — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 21:17:14 -0500

I have always been of the understanding that as long as they are on active duty and that it takes place on face State drinking laws do not apply. When I was stationed and Indiana the drinking age for the state was 21 I could not drink off post but I was permitted to drink on post

Response by SSG Daniel Brewster made Jan 10 at 2019 9:55 PM

SSG Daniel Brewster — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 21:55:21 -0500

Little good will come from you making noise about it. Fair? No. Chances are there will be messy retribution from the PSG or PL. These guys can hurt you more than you can hurt them. My $0.02.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 11 at 2019 12:46 PM

MSG Scott McBride — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:46:17 -0500

Don't know thw ahole story here and not sure of the rules nowadays, but when I served you were allowed to drink on the installation (post policy dependent) and in quarters/barracks as long as you were 18. If you were an NCO drinking with your troopers, that was a no go. I've always been of the opinion that if you are allowed to die for your country, you should be allowed to drink a beer or 10. Of course some of our team mates go overboard. Good luck on your endeavor, but I think you will only make it worse for yourself because you're already marked. Allow your PLT leadership to sink themselves.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2019 1:08 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:08:26 -0500

Tread lightly with any plans to take on the Command.

Response by SPC Robert Medley made Dec 14 at 2019 10:30 AM

SPC Robert Medley — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:30:10 -0500

Dude that sucks.......