Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?

2016-03-15T18:40:39-04:00

NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.

Thank you,
-RP Staff

Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.

Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.

I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...

What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 6:09 AM

2016-03-15T06:09:53-04:00

I would start with whoever the CPT reports to. Same as I would want one of my privates to go to the 1SG, if they felt that I would not handle their situation appropriately.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 15 at 2016 7:10 AM

2016-03-15T07:10:42-04:00

Captain is allowed to make a professional opinion about the SFC.

Captain is NOT allowed to make ANY opinion about SFC's family. Escalate "informally." First to his CoC (preferably to someone high enough to light a fire at the Captain's level) then in the Captain's CoC. If they are the same, more the better.

If that does not resolve the issue, make a "formal" complaint (like through the IG).

Regardless of what transpired between the Captain and the SFC (or who was right or wrong), it shouldn't be repeated by the Captain in public. The matter ended, and this just adds more fuel to the flame.

CC SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Mar 15 at 2016 8:35 AM

2016-03-15T08:35:56-04:00

I would always try Chain of Command first. SFC needs to document the incident and bring it up his own chain, with a request to meet with CPT's chain in order to settle this professionally. SFC must admit up front any wrongdoing or culpability in the situation. This does two things: Shows his own professionalism/sense of accountability, and gives his story credibility. SFC needs his SGM or commander along for the meeting with CPT's CoC, but it will get settled there. And due to the unprofessional and ugly family comments by CPT, it will not go well for her once the meeting breaks. I would save IG for when the CoC fails.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Mar 15 at 2016 8:56 AM

2016-03-15T08:56:53-04:00

The incident should be handled by the chain of command. Contrary to what people think, the IG has no direct authority to do anything. They will simply report the facts (as told to them) to the chain of command.

Yes, the IG can pressure the chain of command to act (by threats of taking it higher), I still believe that most commanders want to do the right thing.

Response by SSG Jesse Cheadle made Mar 15 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-03-15T09:37:16-04:00

Always utilize the Chain of Command and NCO Support Channel.
If these statements we made in the presence of other Soldiers that is unacceptable.
Do not retaliate verbally or physically. This will nullify any complaint you have to whomever you make it to.
Documentation! From hence forth, make a log of situations in which similar statements are made to you or others. Just like counseling a Soldier, if there is no paper trail, the actions will not be considered without the documentation.
Do not provoke the CPT in question. Make it a point to steer clear and go about your business with as little interaction as possible.
Hope these suggestions help.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 15 at 2016 10:01 AM

2016-03-15T10:01:34-04:00

You are pretty well stuck with the COC and the CAPT knows it. The COC might give you lukewarm mouth-service but investigate? who knows. Were there any witnesses? Your First Sgt will certainly love taking this to the CO. The CO will/may try to assuage your feelings, rationalize the misbehavior or recommend you avoid the offender for awhile. If the incident is later brought to the CAPT's attention informally ("heads up so & so is bad mouthing you") she will be embarrassed and make it a point be more careful the next time she chews out someone, and to get back at you in any way she can in the future. As COL Jean (John) F. B. says if you go to the IG or such they will only buck it back to your brigade-type commander(05 or 06), who will also be embarrassed and made to look bad, to handle. Pls let RP know what you decide to do and how this works out for future reference..

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 10:03 AM

2016-03-15T10:03:09-04:00

Oofda. My recommendations is to get everything documented and go through the Chain of Command, and keep going higher until this CPT is squared away.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 15 at 2016 10:48 AM

2016-03-15T10:48:39-04:00

If you look at the typical IG charters, personal conduct isn't in their swim lane. Besides the IG has no line authority. If they get the complaint, they shove it over to the CoC. Problem is it gets shoved over to the front office hence bypassing much of the CoC. Nothing like having the front office ding downwards on this stuff catching some good NCOs and JOs off guard who might have been your best advocate. A good SEL should make sure all the ENLs understand the complaint redress process and what goes into what puka. You don't want to become the problem by working the system sideways. BTW, thinking back on things, 2/3rds or more of the officer/NCO job firings I did were over personal conduct, i.e. they treated people like crap. Great morale booster overall when you trim the bad apples.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Mar 15 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-03-15T11:01:32-04:00

It is immaturity on the part of the officer. You can absolutely slam someone without cussing or getting personal. It is as simple as telling them they are ineffective and what standard they are not meeting, but you have to have the counselings as you attempt to bring them to standard. You cannot yell at someone and trash talk their family.
In this case take it to the chain of command. This officer may need to be ushered out of the Army and one referred OER or GOMAR for toxic leadership will do the trick. This isn't a UCMJ issue, but the chain has every tool needed. I would only go to IG if the chain appears unwilling to act, but if there are witnesses there should be an investigation and fire up the toaster.

Response by Maj James Tippins made Mar 15 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-03-15T11:35:18-04:00

"Praise in public, criticize in private." A good code to live by.
Chain of command first.
IG second.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-03-15T11:35:55-04:00

This sounds like a solid IG complaint, but we are picking up the story at the point where she starts ripping a$$. The previous 5 minutes need to be brought to light, as does the previous relationship. That does not excuse the behavior, but it sets the background. I have lost my s#!+ on a Soldier once. It was behind closed doors in UCMJ and is the only time I cursed AT someone while in command. He filed an IG complaint, which was within his rights and the IG told me that it was bad that I lost my bearing with him. Noted. The guy was an adulterer and a drug user. He was lying to me at the time and lied continually during his UCMJ hearing. I lost it. I'm a bad man. Boo-frickity-hoo. Now...this situation is a little different...it was in public and in a different situation, but like I said, we are missing the back story. IG will have a solid complaint for this, especially if there were attacks made against the Soldier's family members.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:48 AM

2016-03-15T11:48:18-04:00

My thought was a good response to such is to simply say. "Thank you. I do my best to go where my leaders show I should go."

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Mar 15 at 2016 1:30 PM

2016-03-15T13:30:04-04:00

You should ALWAYS use the CoC as the first course to resolve ANY problem - skipping the CoC and jumping to the IG is a huge mistake - trust me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 6:48 PM

2016-03-15T18:48:16-04:00

SSG Carlos Madden I agree, "the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument". The SFC did the right thing. How to handle the subsequent comments by the CPT are debatable. What she said cannot be unheard and it undermines the authority of the NCO within the unit. I think the SFC could make a reasonable argument the CPT's actions are detrimental to the good conduct and morale of the unit. Go to IG Just my two cents.

Response by SFC Benjamin Harrison made Mar 15 at 2016 8:00 PM

2016-03-15T20:00:06-04:00

It's unfortunate that these situations happen, yet are becoming far too common. The best action for the SFC to take is to bring this behavior up to the 1SG and the CSM and get them involved. While I have seen a CPT or two attempt to go off on a CSM, usually the Battalion Commander is near by and he/she tends to nip this behavior. If this action fails, the SFC would be in his right to bring charges against in the CPT in a formal complaint due to her inflammatory comments that sound as though they are being stated in front of Junior Enlisted. While the IG can get involved, I believe the above courses of action are better suited to this scenario for faster resolution.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 1:56 PM

2016-03-16T13:56:44-04:00

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.
Let's just say that the Captain was correct in her assessment that the SFC was not up to par. It does happen. There are ways to deal with it.
1. This is 1SG business, pure and simple. It becomes officer business when it is time to execute on decision-making, but counseling, fixing, and if necessary dressing down a Senior NCO is NCO business. It is done in private and it is done professionally. The NCO in question didn't stop performing overnight, and if he did there is likely a reason why.
2. Breaking down someone in front of others is generally out of bounds. It should only be done if the infraction was public and even then only sparingly.
3. The family is off-limits. I can't imagine a scenario where this is even close to within bounds.
4. Talking about it like she's some kind of tough guy shows that there is a very real problem with her and her style. She wants to be in charge, but what she just did is divide the formation.

The correct course of action in this instance now that the horse is out of the barn is to get the NCO support channel engaged. No mention is made, but I am stunned that the First Sergeant let this go by and is tolerating this. I think the Sergeant Major needs to get involved.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 11:54 AM

2016-03-17T11:54:01-04:00

I would break this down into a few different issues rather than respond to the whole thing in one shot, as I see three different behaviors here that could be of concern.

First off, cursing / loss of bearing. Most officers at one point in their careers have encountered situations where they have lost their bearings. Sometimes it's deserved, even if it's not the most effective means of correcting someone. I used language like that one time to an E6...after he was caught doing drugs in the barracks with his subordinate troops. I don't regret it. I believe GEN Mattis once lamented on the use of cursing to get troops attention and put added emphasis on a statement. I don't have an issue with cursing in general, but it's like many other things, in moderation it's okay, but not in excess. That type of cursing in a dress-down in front of an audience is bad judgement regardless.

Second behavior...degrading the NCO. There's a difference between cursing while correcting someone, and what is presented here. This was not a correction but a tear-down. There are exceptions to the rule, but 99% of the time this is toxic to the unit and shouldn't be tolerated. If the recipient of the tear-down did something that was so absolutely egregious (rape, dealing drugs to troops, other serious felonies, etc) to where he's on the short-track out of the service, then maybe I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it, but it should have been behind closed doors, and done by the CDR. If this wasn't the case here, and I don't get the feeling it was, then it was absolutely uncalled for and accomplished nothing.

Third behavior...the CPT smirking and telling others she ripped the guy after the fact...and doing so in earshot of others....uncalled for and unprofessional, regardless of the backstory.

So, long story short, there's enough of concern here regardless of the history that I'd recommend doing something with it. I'd recommend bringing it up to the CSM if you're enlisted. CSM will most likely bring in the Bn CDR. The Bn CDR will have a more complete picture of the CPT and is in the best position to determine if the Army is best served by correcting / mentoring the CPT, or if the situation merits a 15-6 investigation with potentially more severe repercussions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-03-17T14:01:09-04:00

Well if that SFC was me I would have went straight to the BN CDR and CSM and if that didn't work just keep going up the chain. There will come a time when that CPT needs help from the NCOs of the unit and they should just let the young officer fail once or twice. That usually brings humility to them really quickly.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 17 at 2016 10:57 PM

2016-03-17T22:57:22-04:00

Do not engage until you have made a legible memorandum of your best recollection of the situation, w/ multiple copies! When you can recite the situation off the top of your head, go forward!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 17 at 2016 11:00 PM

2016-03-17T23:00:37-04:00

Thanks Carlos, What a great example of RP's value to SMs. SSG Carlos Madden That is a major breakthrough and should be promogulated throughout the RP and service community!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2016 2:20 PM

2016-04-21T14:20:12-04:00

I would definitely go directly to my chain of command right after I render a proper salute and exit stage left. My 1SG will be informed, and then on. It's one thing to give me a well deserved a** chewing behind closed doors. But once you cross that line of professionalism, and use profane language towards me, you are being out right disrespectful, regardless of what rank either of us is wearing. And then to even think about mentioning my family.....when a "leader" uses their personal feelings towards a fellow Soldier, they are no longer, at least in my opinion, a leader.
So, if going to the COC does nothing, then my next step is IG.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 2:02 PM

2016-06-14T14:02:53-04:00

Wouldn't that depend upon whom you are complaining against? If the situation involves a person who is within your immediate unit structure, I say that requires a direct chain of command inquiry and resolution. If it, say, involves a high ranking officer and the issue is very volatile or has a detrimental impact to the operational integrity of a much greater expanse of personnel, a ship's entire crew or a brigade, for example, might need to navigate that complaint to an outside entity designed specifically to handle that kind of situation, the Office of the Inspector General. My vote, anyway.

Response by MSG Warren Gotthardt made Jun 28 at 2016 2:44 PM

2016-06-28T14:44:56-04:00

Having experienced similar situations in the past, I believe the best route to go is to use the CofC. If I were the SFC, I would start by having a conversation with my SGM/CSM. Bring out all the points and ask that the SGM/CSM discuss this with the CPT's relevant SGM/CSM if the CPT is in another unit. If same unit, I would let the SGM/CSM discuss with the Commander and let the Commander deal with the CPT. Nothing gets an obnoxious, self indulgent Captains attention like an 06 who will scorch them. Totally uncalled for!

Response by SGT David Tennien made Jun 28 at 2016 7:00 PM

2016-06-28T19:00:49-04:00

Chain of command first, if to no avail then you can go to the IG.

Response by MSgt Richard Rountree made Jun 28 at 2016 7:34 PM

2016-06-28T19:34:04-04:00

Definitely chain of command. I had a similar incident with a major in 1991. The major (also my boss) was screaming at me in the hallway of our squadron over decisions I had made in his absence while I was left in charge of the division while he was TDY. I immediately went to his boss (squadron commander) and told him I refuse to be treated like that. The commander asked me to stay calm and carry on. The major was fired the following day. For the rest of the story, see the Sep 1991 entry in Military Experiences in my profile.

Response by SFC (CA) Roland Dell made Jun 28 at 2016 11:14 PM

2016-06-28T23:14:37-04:00

This is typical of someone who has been promoted beyond their professional ability, it seems to me it is all about power and a "what are you going to do about it" attitude. The best type leaders are actually servants to their troops (doing their best to uplift them, and motivate with wisdom). It is most unfortunate when vindictiveness is elevated beyond the general welfare of the troops, but not uncommon nowadays. It is not uncommon in my experience that many junior grade officers feel they need to "prove something" about who they are (so to speak) by tearing down another within the "pecking order" of the garrison. Yet this could be quite deadly when one's life depends on upon unit cohesion within the company say while in harms way.
I have also seen NCO's have officers reprimanded for "unbecoming behavior from an officer", but it must be done precariously and precisely via proper channels.
I was once asked to testify by my direct officer, about the behavior of another officer in my unit, but was advised not to do so by my first sergeant - because of repercussions on me under the UCMJ.

Response by MSgt Scott Sturkol made Jun 28 at 2016 11:16 PM

2016-06-28T23:16:07-04:00

No officer has the right to publicly rip anyone in that manner. This is certainly a chain of command issue that I am more than sure would get resolved. Personally, I would request a meeting with said officer and the sergeant major to address issues of professionalism. If the SFC is out of standards then that can be addressed too, but there is a way to resolve this without it being an IG issue. Now, if said captain continues to be critical of family members, then that is out of line and has other consequences that I'm sure the captain wouldn't like. Bottom line: The captain and SFC need to be grownups and find a way to agree to disagree. This should not escalate any further.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 1:32 AM

2016-06-29T01:32:36-04:00

First, If that SR NCO was truly a POS, he or she would take it, not know how to defend against maltreatment and unbecoming act of an officer and move out like a POS should. BUT, most SR NCO's are smart enough to do the memorandum for record, get witnesses and report it to the chain of command, while in route to the IG's office. The reason I say report to both is because there are some officers that will close ranks, knowing that the Officer is wrong, and let you fall through the cracks. Date, time and circumstances surrounding a situation coupled with witness statements, in any situation, will correct these type behaviors.
But the true root of the problem is that that officer has not been properly mentored by a good 1SG, CSM, SGM or MSG. I have spent countless hours, AFTER DUTY HOURS, counseling commanders and Lieutenants, as a 1SG, to make them successful in dealing with substandard Sr and Jr NCO leaders but never accepted derogators words, Bully type leadership and foolishness from Officers to my NCO's and Soldiers nor to me!
Being the Backbone of an organization means being flexible but not breaking. Had that Sr NCO returned fire with words, the institutional foundation crumbles and Soldiers would see it. There is a time and place for every fight. Use the pen because the sword does not work in an officer to Sr NCO fight.
Additionally, every Thursday is a good chance to hold COMBATIVE PT, that shuts down a lot of mouths, legally!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 7:32 AM

2016-06-29T07:32:13-04:00

Embarrassed as a fellow CPT. How many times has any given senior NCO made me look good when I did not deserve it? More than the grains of sands of Myrtle Beach! I have watched those same NCOs turn around and make mistakes. The answer isn't to rip them but to cover down on them as we're partners in the same fight - taking care of our soldiers so that they can execute my bosses' intent.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Jun 29 at 2016 8:15 AM

2016-06-29T08:15:25-04:00

I would report as soon as you could and as mentioned previous ok document as much as you can. If I were the NCO, I would have taken the yelling right up o the point where my family was brought into, then I would have spent the night in jail.

Response by MAJ Seth Goldstein made Jun 29 at 2016 9:45 AM

2016-06-29T09:45:44-04:00

Sounds like that NCO could be ROAD and long overdue for a stern taking to. This is why I hart a peacetime military. We concern ourselves with all the wrong things. Mission, that's the only thing that matters.

Response by SSG Charles Lovelace made Jun 29 at 2016 11:33 AM

2016-06-29T11:33:43-04:00

There are many approaches I would take,but as soon as the CPT started referring to my Family that takes it form being a professional conversation to being a personal interaction. At that point I would have ended the conversation and informed the 1SG that I would be making an IG complaint regarding the CPT and the lack of professionalism and personal attack.

Response by SFC Mark Russell made Jun 29 at 2016 12:21 PM

2016-06-29T12:21:16-04:00

Well, sorry to say this was how it seemed to be when I came in in the 70's. But, without the comments about the NCO's Family. That crossed the line.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Jun 29 at 2016 12:40 PM

2016-06-29T12:40:24-04:00

This is entirely inappropriate for Captain to act like that, even if the SFC is a poor NCO. The Captain must never serve in a command position.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Jun 29 at 2016 12:42 PM

2016-06-29T12:42:20-04:00

Approach the Chain of Command first, go up the Chain if nothing happens, then go to the IG.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Jun 29 at 2016 1:21 PM

2016-06-29T13:21:41-04:00

Just make sure you have all of your ducks in a line before you go to the commander.

Response by SFC Mark Lathan made Jun 29 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-06-29T14:04:37-04:00

As a retired SNCO, here's my perspective:

1. The CPT needs to keep butt-chewings private, and not brag about it later. That part is definitely unprofessional. Praise is public; discipline is private.

2. Does the SNCO deserve to be chastised? Being an SNCO doesn't always exclude one from being a piece of crap.

There's always two sides to every story. The CPT may no something lower ranking Soldiers don't.

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Jun 29 at 2016 4:05 PM

2016-06-29T16:05:20-04:00

A lot of good responses here. I will add a point that I think many may be thinking but not saying. As a senior NCO my sphere of influence and "Army family" was exponentially wider and larger than 99% of Captains. Once my family was brought into it.....it was officially ON!! On the DL I would make it my life's work to utterly and completely destroy her. No place on the EARTH for you to hide once you have gone on attack toward my family. Plain and simple, there are official actions that need to be taken and then there is the "encouragement" of Karma.

Response by MAJ Heriberto Rodriguez made Jun 29 at 2016 4:07 PM

2016-06-29T16:07:45-04:00

This incident should always be brought up first thought the Chain of Command, And from that level definitely a course of action is going to take place. No Soldiers no matter what rank has the right to treat other Soldiers in a unprofessional way. That way we has Soldiers must follow and apply the Army values of respect, duty, loyalty, selfless service, integrity and personal courage in everything you do, according to the Army

Response by Maj Larry Carmon made Jun 29 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-06-29T16:10:15-04:00

Take up the but maintain your professional conduct. The captain has shown herself to not only a poor leader but a bad person.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 4:19 PM

2016-06-29T16:19:33-04:00

He probably doesn't give a shit. I never did.

Don't like me? Okay. Not here to make friends. I'm here to take care of my Soldiers, and execute orders. Your opinion of me, means as little as my opinion of you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 4:28 PM

2016-06-29T16:28:04-04:00

Hmmm... we all agree that family is off limits, we all agree that the counseling time and place was inappropriate - the question, should you raise it up. Absolutely for good order and discipline if for no other reason.
I for one would love the army to return to the days where I started (Reagan era) - where we could let things fly a little more - thicker skins - I doubt that will happen, so in todays operating environment - this is one of the many issues that the COC must attend to. The IG has no role in it, but the Company chain, BN chain, and BDE chain will squash that crap like a bug. A nudge to an O5 from his trusty CSM will find that CPT on the first thing smoking.

Response by SFC Richard Peebles made Jun 29 at 2016 4:32 PM

2016-06-29T16:32:56-04:00

I would like to know why is she still in the Army. The question is what caused her to go off like that but it doesn't matter, she lost her bearing and I wish I would have been there me and her would have some choice words

Response by SGT Tj Maddox made Jun 29 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-06-29T17:25:57-04:00

Knock knock knock... "SGM, can I speak to you for a moment..."

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jun 29 at 2016 6:33 PM

2016-06-29T18:33:24-04:00

Okay, while everyone tries to come up with "appropriate" ways to handle this I'll relate a sort of kind of similar experience and how it was handled. A LTjg (O-2) said to a PO1 at quarters before the CO and XO showed up "Did you roll in the mud this morning? You are a disgrace. How did you make 1st class?" The first class popped to attention and yelled out (think of boot camp) "SIR ! I have no clue how I made 1st class petty officer being the disgraceful piece of sh*t I am that got dragged up here while working on a piece of equipment that has to work or we don't go to sea and the captain would be in hot water for missing an assigned deployment. SIR!"

Yeh. LTjg didn't say much after that.

Response by PFC Mark Blankenship made Jun 29 at 2016 7:53 PM

2016-06-29T19:53:32-04:00

With All Due Respect, this CPT has no honor. Just because you have more authority doesn't mean you can use it to belittle someone with less rank than you. Officers are supposed to be the example of honor and dignity in the Military. Seems like this NCO has more about himself in all aspects of the military. The CPT should be brought up on slander charges through JAG if applicable. If the CHAIN OF COMMAND know about this, then they should be taking steps to ensure that this CPT gets reprimanded to the fullest extent. This not only looks bad on the CPT, but on all brass. The senior officers should take notice of this case especially to ensure that this type of thing never happens again. The military need its CO's and its NCO's. If they cannot respect each other, and set the example, then how are the lower ranks going to be taught how the military works. This is undeniably a "black eye" for the military and especially for all involved.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 8:18 PM

2016-06-29T20:18:40-04:00

The IG is not your friend. They aren't the commands friend either. If your punished unjustly or against regulations the IG is your route. First step is always chain of command. If this was an ass chewing and non punitive then you won't get much satisfaction from any outcome. Was the CPT wrong sure. Did it negatively impact your career? Document and take it one step higher.

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made Jun 29 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-06-29T20:25:39-04:00

Seems a little excessive, but maybe the SFC is a worthless POS.

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made Jun 29 at 2016 8:36 PM

2016-06-29T20:36:04-04:00

Report her to the chain of command. Keep ready the green book.

Response by SrA Charles Walters made Jun 29 at 2016 8:37 PM

2016-06-29T20:37:13-04:00

I would do two things report to chain of command and I.G.

Response by MSG Charles Menninger made Jun 29 at 2016 8:52 PM

2016-06-29T20:52:49-04:00

The Chain of Command is always the place to begin. If I had witnessed this in my day that Captain and I would have had an offline discussion behind a closed door - respectful but direct. Sergeants Major and Master Sergeants are normally seasoned and can often rectify it at the lowest level. Of course it can be elevated if the captain fails to understand her shortfall and apologize. Most senior officers like it when they know that an attempt was made before it being brought to their attention.

Response by GySgt Ascencion Gomez, D.S.L. made Jun 29 at 2016 9:05 PM

2016-06-29T21:05:54-04:00

Maybe there's a reason this captain was able to do this. .. the senior NCO has no balls... if he stood there and listened to it. I bet had he said, Capt. we can talk in private or I walk. The capt continues, walk and see if that capt is willing to take it to NJP>

Response by COL David Pelkey made Jun 29 at 2016 9:42 PM

2016-06-29T21:42:51-04:00

Taking a little different approach to this than others. I don't think we have a good situation understanding/awareness. Is this a reserve unit or active duty? What is the professional relationship to the officer? In the chain of command? Why are you comparing the officer's action to and NCO doing the same to an officer (or lower enlisted to NCO)? That's apples and oranges. Is the NCO actually a sorry excuse? What was the reference to family? You have others quotes, but none reference to that. Family is obviously off limits, but want to confirm the truth to it. Seems like an add on statement. Was the initial incident in private or public?

So, we have one side of the sorry. It's important to get a good SU. I've seen before of privates butthurt about an NCO making a legitimate correction, taking the complaint to the commander, and a knee jerk reaction to reprimand a good NCO.

Assuming this is true, which could be as I've seen in the past, here are some option:
-Regardless, first try to have a conversation with the officer (when neither is heated by emotion). Be the adult if they aren't. Hope this was done earlier.
-If conversation doesn't work and not in COC, follow up with your COC.
-If in COC, ask for open door policy to see higher commander.

Reserves are slower than active duty. If going IG, be sure the officer isn't right about the NCO, as everything will come out.

Response by MSG Mike Kendall made Jun 29 at 2016 9:48 PM

2016-06-29T21:48:39-04:00

What was the action, what was done, there are pieces of crap out there that get thru the cracks and are on the well fear system. There are soldiers that do not need too be in. So as we say in asymmetric operations look at all angles befor you JDam the target.

Response by SFC Rice Stephen made Jun 29 at 2016 10:43 PM

2016-06-29T22:43:13-04:00

Any good Senior NCO, should be able to hold his or her own with an out of line Captain, without having to to run to the IG with his or her tail between the legs. At this point in in his/her career, maybe the Captain's comments were understandable. Although the attack on the soldiers family is out of line, it's even more reason the Senior Sergent should have put the Captain in his/her place, and got on with NCO business of running the Army.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2016 10:45 PM

2016-06-29T22:45:07-04:00

Staff, unfortunately in today's Army or better said, in the Army I have known for the last 16 years. Unless the particular CPT you are referring to is not well liked by their chain of command. Nothing you do or the SFC does is most likely going to resalt in any significant disciplinary action towards that CPT, no matter who you report it to. Furthermore, by reporting it right away to the chain of command or IG, all your doing is giving them a head-up to get a bigger rug to sweep it under. Now, maybe if the situation involved a Male CPT and a well connected female SFC, you might have a shot at a slap on the wrist.

Response by SSG Bill Cranston made Jun 29 at 2016 10:45 PM

2016-06-29T22:45:08-04:00

I'm pretty sure my wife would have whipped her loud fat mouth butt just for s & g and I would have had to go on the carpet for that most eventful episode. But I'm old school and never had to deal with an 0-3 that ignorant.

Response by PO3 Keith Knight made Jun 29 at 2016 10:55 PM

2016-06-29T22:55:09-04:00

Is this really an issue? Wow things have changed, and not for the good!

Response by SCPO John-florida Killin made Jun 30 at 2016 1:08 AM

2016-06-30T01:08:26-04:00

Officers like this one eventually self destruct, but they do a lot of damage before they get run out of the service. Always enjoy reading some of the Navy Times articles about some of the goofballs who got rolled up who were actually given command at sea. Those jobs are few and far between, and I'm always puzzled that no one identified those people as being unfit long before they were actually given a ship and crew to lead.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 2:17 AM

2016-06-30T02:17:19-04:00

I know me as a person I would not have allowed this Captain to berate me in such a disrespectful manner especially if I had already obtained the rank of SFC. Obviously her CoC approved enough to give her good enough NCOER ratings to get her to this position. Many people suggest that this should go through the CoC but there are cases that the CoC covers the incident to avoid being publicly exposed or to protect that Captain. If this Captain was let’s say a Company Commander of mine I would definitely want this to go outside the CoC for the main fact this person possibly signs my NCOER’s, how convenient! I would want this to go on public record in order to avoid future endeavors with this individual. In a perfect world as Soldiers’ we should suck it up and move on but in the real world there are those individuals who hide behind the rank both on the NCO and Officer side of the house. These are the individuals that need to be taken behind the shed for wall to wall counseling. I will end this by saying I am concerned this SFC was unable to figure out how to file appropriate procedures against this Captain.

Response by SSG David Kaelin made Jun 30 at 2016 6:23 AM

2016-06-30T06:23:30-04:00

My initial response. If he took it, he probably is a POS. Still she (the CPT) took it too far.

I had one CPT try to curse at me. I stopped him in mid-sentence and said; "Captain, do not curse at me. I'm not your child." That was it and that was all it took.

I was never a POS, though. Not sure how I would react if a person tried to yell at me and was correct about me but rude about it.

Response by SFC Thomas Twigg made Jun 30 at 2016 6:32 AM

2016-06-30T06:32:16-04:00

Chain of Command 1st, IG if that fails.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 7:07 AM

2016-06-30T07:07:19-04:00

SSG Madden, I'm currently serving as a detailed IG and the comments below are spot on. It needs to be addressed through the CoC first. By CoC I mean the CPT's supervisor who I'm assuming is a BN-level commander. The BN-level commander, he or she may be, should have an open door policy where the SFC can go in and address his grievance. The SFC can go to the IG but again the IG will refer it to the command and since it's a CPT involved it will be the BN CDR. The IG can facilitate a meeting with the BN CDR on the Soldier's behalf. Hope this helps.

Response by SSG(P) Ell Pizarek made Jun 30 at 2016 7:22 AM

2016-06-30T07:22:09-04:00

You shouldn't treat this CPT as a sniper nest and simply take it out and be done with it. I see a possibility for something much more interesting. While the story leaves out any sign of motive for the Captains behavior, This is were the real story is hidden and should be found. Romance gone wrong, one of them caught in a compromising situation, or is there a third persons involvement? This act is a indicator of a failing and subpar unit. For the CPT to think that they can talk with enlisted personal in this manner and convey this information shows a complete break down of the unit chain of command, as there is no way any respect can be earned. I believe that this should be taken to the 1SG or CSM first. They will know the best way to deliver the situation to the BN Cmdr. It is case study such as this, that make great training opportunities and I hope that what ever the resolution is, that not only is issue handled between the two individuals, but with the environment that allowed this to happen within the unit.

Response by SFC Richard Giles made Jun 30 at 2016 10:34 AM

2016-06-30T10:34:47-04:00

Definitely Chain of Command 1st. In my opinion the only reason the IG should even be involved in this is if the CoC doesn't do anything.
I've always been of the mind you praise in public and take a$$ chewing's private.
From what I can gather from reading, it was done in public and that to me is a big he$$ no. Sounds like the Capt. needs some counseling on how to handle herself in public. Then the CoC needs to ensure she gives a class to the entire unit on how to conduct yourself in a military manner with special emphasis while in a public setting.

Response by LTC Rudy Schulz made Jun 30 at 2016 10:41 AM

2016-06-30T10:41:04-04:00

If I were that CPTs supervisor, would pull that officer aside and give her the run down on how officers under my command are expected to act. She would be in my office, standing in front of my desk at the position of attention. I'd tell her that her conduct is well be low my expectations of an officer of her rank and that her decorum is severely lacking. I'd go on to say that if she didn't like what I was saying then she could take her objections up the chain of command and that I'd be happy to provide the next commander in the chain a letter explaining the situation. As a matter of fact, I'd offer her the opportunity to call my commander and that I'd be happy to dial the phone for her. Finally, I'd provide her the opportunity to excel by having her come to my officer for a couple of Saturdays so that I could properly train her in professional courtesy and bearing.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jun 30 at 2016 10:44 AM

2016-06-30T10:44:05-04:00

Glad to see that RP doesn't let the few drive the subjects. Kudos.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 10:45 AM

2016-06-30T10:45:44-04:00

In this situation would document what happened then I would have a conversation with the first shirt and my supervisor about the situation and send it up the chain. If that did not work then I would swing over to the IG office.

1. Even if the Senior NCO was in the wrong she handled it wrong. There is never a good reason to bring up anyone's family.

2. If it was in public in front of junior service member it undermines the Senior NCOs authority on top of make her ineffective as a leader acting in such an unprofessional manner.

3. Her going around bragging to service member about how she chewed someone out is unprofessional and completely immature.

I think the commander will have a field day with her.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 10:58 AM

2016-06-30T10:58:02-04:00

I see a lot of good advice from officers and NCOs in the comments.

If there is a need to address a problem NCO, I suggest they get some training from their MRT. The IDEAL model would apply here. Also, SMART applies to goal setting, but it also applies to criticism.

Having said that, if this CPT thinks they don't need NCOs, or consistently gets into NCO business, their career will likely be capped at MAJ (we tend to promote incompetence, sadly).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 11:05 AM

2016-06-30T11:05:31-04:00

Use the chain of command

Response by PFC John Villarreal made Jun 30 at 2016 11:09 AM

2016-06-30T11:09:02-04:00

What led up to the ass chewing?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 11:16 AM

2016-06-30T11:16:39-04:00

First and foremost, I tip my hat to this NCO for maintaining his composure and bearing. A sign of a true professional. I, personally, would first address this situation with my 1SG and BN CSM. I have yet to meet a CSM that would just let something like this slide. I would almost guarantee this CPT would have an appointment with the BN Commander very shortly after.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jun 30 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-06-30T11:35:35-04:00

The SFC should go to his First Sergeant, who should in turn take the matter up with the Battalion Sergeant Major. Let the Sergeant Major bring to the battalion commander's attention the conduct of one of his officers. If everyone is doing their, jobs this will be your best remedy. If people start putting their careers over the care of their soldiers, in the long run everyone is going to suffer.

Response by SSG David Schilling made Jun 30 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-06-30T11:57:12-04:00

Begin by routing a complaint through the NCO chain of concern (BN CSM) and get the CSM in on this. If the abuse can be proven then the Officer is guilty of conduct unbecoming.

Response by SN Thomas Brown made Jun 30 at 2016 12:13 PM

2016-06-30T12:13:46-04:00

Maybe he was a piece of $hit. NCOs are not exempt from that status.

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Jun 30 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-06-30T12:39:09-04:00

Had the same problem with a LT. before I retired I noted everything he did then took a trip over to the command master chiefs office and had a long discussion with him about this LT. The master chief noticed I was about three months out from retiring so he gave me tad orders to his office and the reason for this is because he knew as well as I did this LT just out right hated me for no good reason. it only took three weeks after I was gone for this LT to get relived this guy just stepped on his own dick. So I suggest you follow your chain of command it is always your best corse of action

Response by Sgt Matt Owens made Jun 30 at 2016 1:19 PM

2016-06-30T13:19:45-04:00

From your comments, it appears that the SFC conducted himself professionally and then reported it up the chain of command. Why would you be getting involved, beyond giving a statement of your observations if asked to do so?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-06-30T13:23:27-04:00

What you describe is unacceptable. It's toxic leadership at it's finest and it is a systemic problem. As has been said many times, chain of command then IG. Demand accountability for this incident and the retaliation that will almost certainly follow her being held accountable.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 30 at 2016 1:54 PM

2016-06-30T13:54:40-04:00

As a junior enlisted where that officer has no actual ability to affect me or my job assuming they weren't my chain of command I'd suggest ignoring it and understanding their are crazy people in all walks of life.

If that officer directly or indirectly affected my position duty or service

I give the chain of command a chance to deal with it

If I was a senior noncommissioned officer and an officer of any rank pull that
I would likely jump a few steps in the chain of command and go see a brigade or division CSM and commander team
Requesting both presents

Briefing them on the situation and then asking them to bring the offending officer in so that all four parties are in the same room and there would be no he said she said

Let that officer defend their actions publicly and in front of their boss

Response by CPL Kevin Carns made Jun 30 at 2016 2:08 PM

2016-06-30T14:08:29-04:00

This sounds like my ex-wife, but she made Major a couple years ago... This is 1SG business in the opinion of this former Jr NCO.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 2:10 PM

2016-06-30T14:10:08-04:00

Is the SFC a POS? Is he a terrible NCO? Sometimes the truth hurts and it sound bad. But If said dude DOES suck at life, his 1SG should be the one destroying him. I don't think a captain would still standing if she said those things to me... Just saying.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 30 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-06-30T14:57:50-04:00

Use the chain of command or you are jumping the Bn. Commander and the person with the influence, the SGM. Keep your EER's good, I imagine the CPT's OER will reflect her inappropriate behavior.

Response by LtCol Mac McCarty made Jun 30 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-06-30T15:19:34-04:00

What are the facts. I see a whole lot of "s'posin'" going on. One possibility. The SFC has been counseled before on controlling his dependents. Shop-lifting in the PX. now, one of the kids got drunk with his buddies and destroyed a couple of the greens on the Base golf course.The Captain has been on the downhill side of the Base Commander, the Division Commander, the Regimental Commander, and the Battalion Commander. The. SFC goes wishy-washy-whiny defensive. You better believe I'd bring his family into it. I'm an old man. I grew up in a Corps where many of our senior officers and NCOs were WWII vets. As one of my regimental commanders once told me, "I can remember when a Captain could not only call a subordinate a piece of shit who was about to hit the brig--but the only question anyone would ask is 'How soon can we get a chaser?'." But, I'm an old man......

Response by CCMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 3:23 PM

2016-06-30T15:23:20-04:00

That behavior, right there, needs an immediate correction. "Ma'am, will you please join me in the hall?" Followed by "Ma'am, would you please accompany me to discuss this with the commander?" Followed by "Ma'am, if you choose not to accompany me...I'll ask the Chief Master Sergeant/Master CPO/Sgt Maj/First Sgt to find you. If you still won't accompany us voluntarily, then we will have the discussion without you present."

The conversation in the room is to discuss the history and the job of a SNCO. I was a similar situation and had a frank/respectful discussion the commander the situation and at the same time held myself accountable while holding the commander responsible for his officers. "Sir, I understand my rank and what is expected of me...have I failed in that? If I have, then maybe we need to discuss future role changes or remedial training. If not, then it is NOT possible for me to lead my soldier/sailors/airmen/marines, when this is how the O-3 belittles me publicly. This is not the first time it has happened and it appears to be a personality conflict. If so, I'd like to fix this now. This destroys the trust and bond that I have formed with my men and women. It will be impossible for me to carry out my duties. In addition, this is an officer. She is an example to the junior enlisted. If she mistreats her SNCO's publicly, then the NCOs and junior enlisted will think that behavior is tolerated or encouraged. She sets the example, and she is not performing as an officer and a lady."

An O-3 is an officer and the rank must be respected. But there is a delicate balance there for that O-3. If she insults the SFC publicly, the effect is pretty poisonous to an organization. Both, the SFC and the CPT, will pay for this. Some will take sides and unit cohesion suffers. The Colonel/CAPT will be very interested on making sure that this doesn't happen.

Expect and apology from that Captain.

Response by SFC Jasper Cothran made Jun 30 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-06-30T15:58:48-04:00

FTX at night!
Just kidding.
Document and report. If witnessed by other get names, places, dates and times.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jun 30 at 2016 4:11 PM

2016-06-30T16:11:21-04:00

COC.....but I guess it depends on the rank of the person involved.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 4:22 PM

2016-06-30T16:22:14-04:00

SFC should not have said a word to ANYONE and then tried his best to make the utmost of friends with that Captain and when the time was right he should have served up that cold dish of revenge and no one would have EVER suspected him. It's exactly what I would have done. It works. I've never been caught.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 4:23 PM

2016-06-30T16:23:19-04:00

I would take this to the 1SG and CSM and explain the issue. Let Top and CSM talk to the respective commanders and determine what the next course of action would be.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 4:27 PM

2016-06-30T16:27:41-04:00

first go thru coc, but dont let it drop, go to ig if nothing becomes of it with you coc, unless it involes coc go next higher level

Response by SSG Duane Elrod made Jun 30 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-06-30T16:55:04-04:00

I want to report the original poster's grammar to IG.

Response by SSgt Joseph Petrie made Jun 30 at 2016 5:50 PM

2016-06-30T17:50:59-04:00

I would have beat the living shit out of that Bitch the moment she mentioned my family. I know that my career would have been over but NOBODY talks about my family, NOBODY!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 6:20 PM

2016-06-30T18:20:02-04:00

I'm a BN Commander. If one of my CO's did that, Said CPT's ass is about to get handed to her. So the answer is Chain of Command.

Response by Cpl Roy Savell made Jun 30 at 2016 6:27 PM

2016-06-30T18:27:09-04:00

This happens everyday in the Marine Corps

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Jun 30 at 2016 6:58 PM

2016-06-30T18:58:55-04:00

Sound like a very insecure captain who has no respect for herself or others. Thinks it makes her look like she is in charge and feels tough. Such an officer, I hope is found out by her superiors and is dealt with accordingly. There is not room in the military for people like this. I have seen NCOs act like this when the get promoted and do not have the respect of those they lead because they have done nothing to earn it. Had a captain that was former enlisted. He stated that he was better than enlisted because he went to college and got his commission. And he was better than other officers because he was enlisted and knew how to get away with things. He was a poor leader. Just like this officer is. It makes you wonder how they hide their true self for so long.

Response by SPC John Lebiecki made Jun 30 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-06-30T19:23:22-04:00

Open door policies are there to address these types of issues. If that was me, I'd be going straight to the Battalion CoC. If they didnt resolve it, I'd be requesting to take it to the Brigade CoC. Regardless, theres attempting to correct an issue and then there is unprofessional. This crossed that line

Response by COL Hank Foresman made Jun 30 at 2016 7:24 PM

2016-06-30T19:24:21-04:00

Go see the CSM before going to the Bn CDR

Response by SPC Christopher Renkel made Jun 30 at 2016 7:44 PM

2016-06-30T19:44:30-04:00

This type of situation I've seen too many times I'm sure some old dogs on here know exactly what I'm talking about when I say WTF happened to "NCO" business? If a ass chewing was warranted you got it chewed by Top then you got permission from Top to get it chewed by your CO.

Response by SMSgt William Hassiepen made Jun 30 at 2016 7:56 PM

2016-06-30T19:56:36-04:00

I've clearly seen instance where this happened in private but never in public. I think this is just one other case of how the overall quality of the US military has degraded over the years. The entitled millennials and yes their "entitled officers". To hold one accountable violated some BS social actions code. Frankly I don't believe that chain of command these days would do anything about this as all they would want to do is cover themselves. I also cannot believe that the Chain of Command already doesn't know about this especially since this idiot captain was bragging about her dressing down a SFC. This isn't the military I served in as this behavior would NEVER be tolerated. The behavior of this idiot captain is not surprising as well given the millennial generation these days. I believe the only recourse for this SFC is going to the IG. I believe the Chain will prove to be useless.

Response by CSM Rik Williamson made Jun 30 at 2016 7:58 PM

2016-06-30T19:58:45-04:00

A couple of items here...
#1 Are there any negative counsels on this NCO?...if so, what corrective actions have been completed and has follow on counsel been accomplished to let this NCO know if he or she has met expectations?
#2 Is this CPT in the CoC...perhaps the CO? First stop should be immediate NCO support channel...Soldier's 1SG. Especially if the ass chewing was unfounded. If nothing is done about it, then straight to the CSM and keep climbing to the IG.
Been my experience over a lot of years that enlisted always get the short end...officers tend to get a hand slap and proceed along their career path.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 8:24 PM

2016-06-30T20:24:23-04:00

I'm not exactly sure about the regulations. I know a guy who was being investigated for disrespecting an officer.

However there is a line they can cross and once they do they are no longer protected by the UCMJ and the NCO is protected because of "conduct unbecoming" or something like that.

Like I said though. I don't know if asschewings like that cross the line or not.

Response by 1LT Susan Bailey made Jun 30 at 2016 8:30 PM

2016-06-30T20:30:38-04:00

I agree with the many comments that this was way out of line behavior. I have to wonder what the MOS of the CPT was, only because there are some MOS's where people can enter as a Captain despite not having previous military experience. If so, than her behavior could also point to her lack of training, if not lack of appropriate mentorship as someone new to the rank.

I have encountered / been aware of bad behavior from Officers and NCO's. So none are immune. I don't think its always the solution to apply a nuclear solution when other options could be available to get them on the right track. If they fail to change their ways, or continue said behavior, than yes, maybe they are not suited to be in the military. Everyone can have a bad day, no one is immune. Now a pattern, despite attempted correction, well that is something else.

Lastly, I would have to agree, go up the chain first. I don't know one 1SG or Commander who would appreciate being blindsided by an IG complaint and not having had the chance to address it themselves.

Response by SFC Patrick Vaughn made Jun 30 at 2016 8:46 PM

2016-06-30T20:46:22-04:00

I would have stood up and told that POG officer to fucking check herself. I don't give a damn. The minute she started demeaning that NCO by calling him shit, all gloves are off at that point. I've delt with poor leadership as a senior NCO for two decades and if I'm right about my position than that officer better come prepared. I'm so glad I'm out. The military has just gone to shit since I retired. Those that haven't done the time to see the change since the late 90s will never know what the Army was like then compared to now. Yes war changed things but we produced soldiers to rapidly during that time and quality definitely suffered on enlisted and commissioned sides.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 8:51 PM

2016-06-30T20:51:55-04:00

I am truly amazed by some of these comments that are being posted by STAFF SERGEANT's and above. NCO's begin their comments with, I don't know what regulation covers this and that, or not sure if the CPT's actions are justified.. I don't care who you are nor do I care what Rank you are, you do not have the right to disrespect Soldiers or NCO's for that matter. And the SSG that initiated this post, why are you posting this when you should be reporting this???

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 9:03 PM

2016-06-30T21:03:26-04:00

I wouldn't take shit off of any officer unless I was at fault.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-06-30T21:36:03-04:00

IG!!!!

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Jun 30 at 2016 9:37 PM

2016-06-30T21:37:58-04:00

Chain of command. I would imagine that higher is likely aware of said CPT's behavior already and may be documenting it. I have never seen an IG complaint end well ever. The ones I saw ended with strict SOP's (i.e. stupid games) and an angry head shed.

Response by SFC David Chatham made Jun 30 at 2016 9:48 PM

2016-06-30T21:48:21-04:00

Well... If this is bothering you enough to post this here and are seriously acting on advice given... Then here's my two cents. Talk to that senior about it. Express your concerns about how it affects you and the other soldiers. If the senior NCO seems unwilling to take any action then express to that senior NCO that you wish to go to the CSM and talk about it. Once you've gone to your CSM and hashed out with him... That's it ! you need not do anymore. If it continues... convince another NCO or soldier that's privy to this to go to the CSM. The point I'm trying to make here is ... It's an NCO/officer issue and you should,d take it up to the most senior NCO (CSM ) so he can hash it out with the most senior officer in that unit (usually a LTC). Chain of command.... Use it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 10:18 PM

2016-06-30T22:18:32-04:00

Ok.. Probably not professional of him to do that but..... Let's be honest this nco probably wasn't the hard dick platoon Sgt you'd want leading your son/daughter spouse into battle. There's more to this. Any nco I'd respect would fire back with borderline shit that'd be disrespectful yet true. Fuck this nco and Cpt move on

Response by SPC Dennis Manning made Jun 30 at 2016 11:32 PM

2016-06-30T23:32:57-04:00

It's been awhile since I wore the olive drab, but I've seen this before. SGT tells CSM, who goes to the section officer (a MAJ) who calls the CPT in the office and proceeds to chew butt behind closed doors about his shortcomings. CSM makes sure the SGT doesn't have to drive CPT around anymore. CSM turns to the PV2 (me) and makes me the CPT's new driver. He pulls the same crap with me so I go to the CSM and the process repeats itself. MAJ makes life difficult for CPT. Not sure what he did, but within a month the CPT resigned his commission. Chain of command, THEN IG.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 11:46 PM

2016-06-30T23:46:01-04:00

I believe that all problems, regardless of rank, should be handled at the lowest level possible from the start. Go through the COC to start with and then if there is no resolution to the problem, then you can consider talking with JAG or with IG. Superiors both Officer and NCO alike tend to get upset when their subordinates go over their head without following their proper COC. Just my opinion on the matter.

Response by PFC Adam Murray made Jun 30 at 2016 11:48 PM

2016-06-30T23:48:34-04:00

I'd knock her teeth out. Say what you will about me, but my family will get you hurt. She wants to be equal; make her equal.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2016 11:51 PM

2016-06-30T23:51:35-04:00

What does a three year in the Army CPT know. Exactly!! Call this retired MSG and I'll tell you what you don't know!!

Response by SGT Lou Haarstick made Jul 1 at 2016 12:29 AM

2016-07-01T00:29:45-04:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 6:25 AM

2016-07-01T06:25:15-04:00

That's a pretty poor leader. CoC should definitely be utilized first to try to handle this at the lowest level possible. That is absolutely unprofessional and she is way out of line.

Response by SFC Ethan Graves made Jul 1 at 2016 8:43 AM

2016-07-01T08:43:46-04:00

COC. Will need the CSM and BC to mediate. What the heck is the 1SG doing? I find it hard to believe he/she would let this dirty laundry out of the company AO. Family should always be off limits. Devil's advocate, is the senior NCO good to go? It seems like the CO might have been tolerant up to a point and then blew up. Still not a reason to involve the family or belittle the NCO.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jul 1 at 2016 8:43 AM

2016-07-01T08:43:54-04:00

Firstly, a junior or for that matter any officer shows disrespect to themselves and their troops by chewing out a senior noncom in public. Secondly, I don't know why an SSG would need advise on this matter as most I have known would have been sitting across from the Commander or Sgt Major asap on this issue. Lastly, families are out of bounds regardless of feelings toward an individual and she the Captain is lucky the individual retained their professional composure unlike her and didn't clock her ass.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jul 1 at 2016 9:33 AM

2016-07-01T09:33:11-04:00

If I was that NCO, I would take the "butt chewing" until when that CPT talk about family members. Right then and there, that CPT cross the line and I would turn around and give that CPT an butt chewing the NCO way telling that CPT do not ever talk about my family members, I would not stand for it period. Do not care what rank you are. You can say anything about me, but family members is way off limits. I would also bring this up to my COC (1st line supervisor, PSG, 1SGT, Company CDR) ASAP. I also agree with Col Joseph Lenertz

Response by 1SG George Sr made Jul 1 at 2016 9:36 AM

2016-07-01T09:36:28-04:00

I would have stopped him dead in his tracks.. that's just me

Response by CPO Michael Bechen made Jul 1 at 2016 9:41 AM

2016-07-01T09:41:34-04:00

Done anything with the Chain of Command yet

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 9:44 AM

2016-07-01T09:44:56-04:00

There are always two sides to a story, and somewhere in there is the truth. At the end of the day, if the CPT continues in such a manner, she will not have the support of her senior NCO's, will eventually do something stupid again, and be left out to hang. We as NCOs are tasked with training our junior officers. Handle it at the lowest level. Privately talk and give new perspective to the JO which helps shape them for success moving forward and leaves them appreciating the advice their NCOs have to offer. If it doesn’t work, then go the IG route, because talking that way about a person's family is way off the reservation.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jul 1 at 2016 10:32 AM

2016-07-01T10:32:38-04:00

This needs to be resolved quickly. These type of situations can divide the company/section into several different groups. Report this to the next higher and dig in. I hope both soldiers get what they deserve.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 10:34 AM

2016-07-01T10:34:19-04:00

There is no excuse for such poor conduct, I have worked for very senior officers and they would not tolerate it. They apreciated the NCO corps way too much. As Squadron Chief, I would have a heart to heart conversation with that officer and if necessary ensure that leadership take the necessary steps against the Captain. My recommendation would be for the SFC to bring it up to their SGM. Disparaging the family is off limits!!!!

Response by MSgt Chris Chambre made Jul 1 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-07-01T13:07:17-04:00

Any "leader" that disrespects a link in the chain in front of others like that does not have the temperament to be entrusted with the sons and daughters of America.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 1:08 PM

2016-07-01T13:08:12-04:00

Not much of an Senior NCO.I would have taken her Ass outside and finished the discussion.

Response by PVT Ryan P. Quirk made Jul 1 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-07-01T13:16:06-04:00

Report her dumb ass.. Or drop her name and unit here and Ill give her a piece of my mind. As I am sure there are a lot of others who would do the same.

Response by PO2 Carl Slaubaugh made Jul 1 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-07-01T13:16:14-04:00

as a veteran myself, I would recommend you go to the CPT's superior.. privately and let him/her know what happened.. there may be circumstances that you may be unaware about, training, disrespect..etc.. let them know that it troubled you, and that is why you went to them. Respectfully, and with tact, let them know that if something isn't done to ensure this CPT isn't straightened out, you will continue to take it up the chain until its resolved. This does 2 things. 1. it keeps you from looking like you went around the "chain of command" (chain of command is vital in the military) and 2. Shows the CPT's boss that you are serious and want action. However, you going straight to the IG would diminish anything that the chain can do and bring in an outside entity into problems of your command that could possibly be handled within house..

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 2:15 PM

2016-07-01T14:15:33-04:00

If this was done in open forum than it needs to be reported. That is unacceptable no matter what the captain needs to be put in check.

Response by SPC Charlie Msrtin made Jul 1 at 2016 2:28 PM

2016-07-01T14:28:06-04:00

Chain of command needs to be utilized. The SFC needs to admit to any errors in his/her judgement/actions. IG should only be a last resort

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 3:12 PM

2016-07-01T15:12:16-04:00

Well first off, in respect to Unit Command Team working together to be an effective Command; I would have spoken to the Cpt offline and explain to her that she has created doubt in her ability to lead. Calling a SENIOR NCO in her unit clearly show toxic leadership. I will get back to this part later.

Next I would speak with the SENIOR NCO and ask him if he thinks she was right in which she did, and let him know that what took place was WRONG, plan and simple. And that I have spoken with her about her conduct, and that I will be speaking with BN Command Team about the incident. I would have him write out a detailed statement of what happened.

Then I would address the Unit as a whole squash any animosity toward my Cpt. Because unit cohesion is more important that personal pride.

As a leader, you have to remember that Soldier will NOT forget a Cpt berating a SENIOR NCO. Not to mention any fallout that may come from it. Could you imagine all the Soldiers undermining that SENIOR NCO and Cpt authority? It would be total chaos.

This is how would handle this situation if this happened in my unit.

Response by PO3 Brett White made Jul 1 at 2016 3:37 PM

2016-07-01T15:37:04-04:00

Must be a bigger difference in times than I thought. When I was in, early-mid 90's, I observed a few Chiefs (E7) make a Lt. (O3), back pedal. The O1-O3 ranks would have VERY seldom, if ever, thought about trying to dress down a E7-E9!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 4:11 PM

2016-07-01T16:11:26-04:00

Does the CPT have an approachable boss? The question I am asking myself is what is wrong with her? I have ripped into Soldiers but it stays there and to include family is disgracefully unprofessional. I know that the officer corps is far from perfect but this does have to be dealt with or it does not stop, let your nco support channel know you are going to IG if she does not have a boss to put her in line and go from there.

Response by CWO3 Luis Cruz made Jul 1 at 2016 4:18 PM

2016-07-01T16:18:03-04:00

Definitely a punishable offense under the UCMJ, I would have recommended Court Martial and NOT article 15.

Response by CW4 Tim Claus made Jul 1 at 2016 4:42 PM

2016-07-01T16:42:41-04:00

For an NCO, take it to the CSM. Run it up the chain of command.

Response by SSG John Lambert made Jul 1 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-07-01T17:25:26-04:00

Maybe the CPT is right. Just because he's a SFC means that his feelings have to be taken into account. I once watched the 1st Cav CSM lock up the DIVARTY CSM in front of an entire BTRY. Maybe the SFC's family is the problem. MP's getting called, arrested, post housing disgusting, wouldn't be the first time. Maybe the CPT is incredibly squared away. Without knowing the background you really can't make a judgment.

Response by SGT Frank Hebner made Jul 1 at 2016 6:16 PM

2016-07-01T18:16:36-04:00

She was probably married to him and it was just another day! (Well we don't have any of the pertinent facts so, You just have to make them up)!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-07-01T18:26:17-04:00

If it's already been handled by going upwards above the captain, little needs said or done. The SFC was appropriate in keeping their mouth shut and moving on and telling the capt's superior. The SFC doesn't have to lower him/herself to the captain's level. It gets him/her nowhere. Captain could say 'now you're disprectful on top of being a P.O.S.' No comment from the SFC and the captain continues to show his/her true colors. My bet is that the captain gets reassigned and PROMOTED....just sayin...

Response by Ryan McMasters made Jul 1 at 2016 8:03 PM

2016-07-01T20:03:22-04:00

If it were an NCO treating an e-4 or below in such a manner, it would be just another day at the office...suck it up buttercup.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 8:06 PM

2016-07-01T20:06:28-04:00

I'd try and talk to the SFC about getting a new assignment under a new command. If not its going to be the elephant in the room until they put the whole incident on blast. Formal apology maybe?

Response by CSM Mike Harmon made Jul 1 at 2016 9:35 PM

2016-07-01T21:35:30-04:00

If you go to the IG, they will go to the chain of command. So your best bet is to go to the chain of command. If the SFC has witnesses it will help her/him in their cause. No matter what, they DO need to bring this up to the command. I had a few mid and junior grade officers I assisted in mentoring. They get with the wrong crowd and loose their minds.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2016 10:35 PM

2016-07-01T22:35:51-04:00

Always use the chain of command first. IG is for when that fails, the first thing they'll ask at IG is who you reported it to at unit level.

Response by SFC Richard Fernandez made Jul 1 at 2016 11:35 PM

2016-07-01T23:35:19-04:00

Well was it warranted? I've known many sorry senior NCOs that fit this description. Of course that was back before the PC military of today. I also know if it was not warranted that captain would find herself flat on her back or at a minimum since it's a female would have gotten my response. All bets are off when you lose your professional demeanor and belittle someone and it's uncalled for, but we also knew if we had it coming you took your lickings and continued to march.

Response by 1SG Tom Krrch made Jul 2 at 2016 12:23 AM

2016-07-02T00:23:43-04:00

They are both am embarrassment to the ranks they hold. It happens.

Response by SrA Michael Ramirez made Jul 2 at 2016 12:51 AM

2016-07-02T00:51:17-04:00

CPT sounds like a class act. A few years ago, they could have taken it outside. Instead of hiding behind rank like a little bitch

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 12:59 AM

2016-07-02T00:59:29-04:00

I would address the NCO chain of command. Either the 1sg or CSM will address the commander and the commander will deal
With the situation. That is the only recourse.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 7:43 AM

2016-07-02T07:43:54-04:00

Did you not just said SHE? There is your answer. Now turn that situation around and you will understand. Welcome to the new Army.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 8:41 AM

2016-07-02T08:41:29-04:00

Not enough information. If a senior NCO did this to a junior NCO or junior Soldier no one would bat and eye lash. Depends on the details of the exchange. If it needs to be handled by other there are two good options: Chain of command/open door policy, or IG. Then again someone could always file a hurt feelings report...

Response by TSgt Harry Stafford made Jul 2 at 2016 9:45 AM

2016-07-02T09:45:23-04:00

If a Capt. has the guts to say what she said, then she has the confidence her chain will let her get away with this conduct unbecoming. I would make an IG complaint so this doesn't get buried in the chain of command. I mean really, saying what she said and go around telling people what she did, that takes guts....

Response by TSgt Johnnie Keller made Jul 2 at 2016 10:12 AM

2016-07-02T10:12:51-04:00

If it was incorrect and done in front of others, report it. To "rip someone a new one" is to be done away from everyone else. If the CPT then went around bragging about it, turn them in. I have had my share of disagreements with senior NCO's and officers, but if I needed to get "Ripped a new one" I don't ever recall it being done so others could hear it. When I needed to speak with a junior soldier or airman, I never "busted them out" in front of others, that is totally uncalled for.

Response by SSG Lee Dragon made Jul 2 at 2016 10:32 AM

2016-07-02T10:32:36-04:00

IG and E O Complain and Id Personally go to his BN or BDE Commander and tell them everything.....Thats Why when in on the Road I carry a Recorder for Extra Extra Back up

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-07-02T10:43:38-04:00

The Chain of Command is only as strong as you make it and it should be exercised freely unless it has broken. If someone in the chain is the problem then partner with the next step in the chain or a knowledgeable leader to develop an action plan; but only when you are certain you have done everything you could at your level and the senior has been afforded an opportunity to resolve the issue. It's often viewed as more expedient to dial a 800 number but that often causes more problems for all concerned. As a rule problems should be resolved at the lowest level and when you do this you strengthen the Chain. Besides resolving the issue you instill confidence in the members that leaders care, and that they are competent and willing to resolve problems or concerns in a timely and professional manner. Although you may get an answer faster by going straight to the top you might not like the consequences once the Chain of Command becomes aware that you did not give them a chance to handle the issue. Put yourself in their place and think how you would feel if someone demonstrated by their actions that they thought so little of you that they chose not to allow you to do your job. At that point you can stand by for heavy rolls because you are about to be passing through a storm....and usually of greater proportion than the original issue.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 11:23 AM

2016-07-02T11:23:03-04:00

Sorry for posting with a general comment about Chain of Command earlier without reading the whole topic. Having read the post this is a no-brainer. CPT needs some face time with a senior Field Grade to remind her that this is totally unsat behavior on so many levels. I've known many Sgts Maj and other senior SNCOs that could tactfully square her away also, without being blatantly disrespectful and likely with less than 50 words. I think she needs a taste of her own meds from a senior and the senior NCO network is the way to initiate that plan. SFC briefs 1st Sgt - 1st Sgt and Sgt Maj have a chat - the Sgt Maj briefs the CO - the CPT gets what's coming to her. Even if she is close to accurate you don't dress down in public. If she is correct and SFC works for her then why isn't she doing her job through counseling to develop him? It's above my pay grade but if she has a pattern of this then her Reporting Senior needs to be counselling and evaluating her fitness to lead. Family is off limits without question and screams unprofessionalism.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-07-02T11:41:26-04:00

Handle it old infantry style, remove your blouse and step into the woodline. But seriously I would request a meeting with the Cpt. The BC and the SGM and lay it all out on the table. If that didn't work the go to the IG.

Response by Sgt William Byrd made Jul 2 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-07-02T11:58:43-04:00

A LT during a field op walked up to a LCpl and all he got out was "Your wife". After the junior officer woke up from being knocked out by the Marine they were brought before the CO. The LT wanted to charge the LCpl with assault. The CO asked the Marine why did he knock out the LT. Response was "I did not like the tone he had when he said My wife and I didn't give him a chance to say anything else about my wife." Captain looked over to the LT and responded "Looks like you learned your lesson about talking about another Marines' family, don't ever do that again"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 12:36 PM

2016-07-02T12:36:28-04:00

Here we go again... Another case of toxic leadership. I don't know what that NCO could have done to deserve such treatment and frankly I don't care. Leadership is about the people you lead not you. Never mind the fact that she took matters into her own hands and left the 1SGT out of it. It is this nonsense right here that raises attrition rates and lowers re-enlistment rates. Ask yourself this question: how did she get that way? Has this behavior been fostered in some way? If so, then use of the CoC will be in vein. Use it anyway to cover your bases. Just know that you are probably heading into a dark and lonely forest.
Yours truly,
SGT Cynicism

Response by SGT Ronald Parkerton made Jul 2 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-07-02T16:56:08-04:00

The Captain could have justified anything she had to say when tearing into the SFC. Unfortunately for her, making the situation personal by talking at all about him s family became, conduct unbecoming and this is the time to show her the door.

Response by SFC Brian Ewing made Jul 2 at 2016 10:20 PM

2016-07-02T22:20:12-04:00

Pretty pathetic, if I was that NCO in question at the moment I would have responded by saying, "No wonder I'm what you stated I have such great Leadership Examples being shown to me at the moment "!!!

Response by AN Jamie Barnhard made Jul 2 at 2016 10:44 PM

2016-07-02T22:44:26-04:00

Don't you wish you could say you piece of shit bag of ass you no more deserve a commission than the man in the moon.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2016 11:58 PM

2016-07-02T23:58:15-04:00

It's all on that SFC now. I know what my collar can afford, and would not have maintained bearing by choice at mention of family. My guess is this SFC know the CPT is a peice of shit and forgot about about it as soon as it was over.

Response by SGT Stamatios Lahaniatis made Jul 3 at 2016 4:11 AM

2016-07-03T04:11:18-04:00

This is why women don't belong in the military. If a male Capt did this in an Infantry unit the SFC wouldn't have just stood there.....

Response by LTC James Bozeman made Jul 3 at 2016 6:46 AM

2016-07-03T06:46:44-04:00

The first question any IG is going to ask, is did you use your Chain of Command to report the incident and what was the outcome? I absolutely support what COL Lenertz recommends. I will state for the record though that even though you perceive wrong doing and inappropriate behavior, the community is only seeing a portion of the situation - you may not see the outcome you expect.

Response by SSgt James Smith made Jul 3 at 2016 7:52 AM

2016-07-03T07:52:39-04:00

I'm wondering if it would also be appropriate to retain Area Defense Counsel, just in case, as this is pursued up the Chain of Command, just to make sure that the SFC is in compliance with UCMJ, Army and DoD regulations and directives as well?

Response by SPC Thomas Carroll made Jul 3 at 2016 9:41 AM

2016-07-03T09:41:22-04:00

This officer has no Bussiness doing this in front of pepole. Time for IG because officers protect one another. The IG will investigate it will go in her record. May stop her from making Major. Career will be slowed at least.

Response by TSgt Robert Danley made Jul 3 at 2016 10:34 AM

2016-07-03T10:34:47-04:00

Where do I start? Yes that is highly unprofessional. Especially if done in front of others. That this CPT has bragged about it is also immature. An NCO who would find themselves in such a situation should use the chain of command to address the problem, even if just observed to have happened to another enlisted member or junior officer. If done once they will do it again, and word gets around. The more NCO's who complain about this individual the more credible the evidence becomes. I would think that with the officer in question bragging about it to their contemporaries someone would say something to them, and the chain of command as well. It's not just poor judgment on the CPT's part, but shows a lack of leadership skills and maturity; and it should reflect in their evals. Whenever this type of behavior is displayed you have to ask yourself "would I be comfortable going to combat with this individual on my team?" Keep in mind that humans are complex and inherently fallible creatures. There may be something going on in this CPT's life that is causing such behavior and it could be anything from a failing marriage, a recent death in the family, or even alcohol or drug abuse. On the other hand, while in the Navy I have seen the Air Boss rip new ones....but that is what an Air Boss does, and they do so because the mistake you made could have caused loss of life including yours, and the ass chewing is done to educate and motivate. Yet that is all together different situation.

Response by MSG Paul Manish made Jul 3 at 2016 11:11 AM

2016-07-03T11:11:14-04:00

IG gets most action. Obviously, this is not the first such behavior of this FOR and the officer rank CoC has done nothing already. The IG not only addresses the CPT, but why the CoC has not acted. Also the Annual Soldier Sensing for Command Climate catches attention.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 11:12 AM

2016-07-03T11:12:44-04:00

Definitely, I'd report this behavior! This is completely wrong.

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Jul 3 at 2016 11:51 AM

2016-07-03T11:51:17-04:00

My first thought on this is that surely there is more to this than the information presented here. Not that I doubt this could and would happen, but I've never served with anyone who would carry on like this in front of others to this degree, and then boast about it to even more afterward. So, in my opinion, we have one of two things here, 1) The Captain's assessment is well-founded, but not likely because you don't get to be an E-7 if you're a complete basket case. Incompetence usually has a way of showing up in an NCOER, or it used to. And I would have to believe that IF said SFC was such an utter boob that there would have to be other supporting documentation which would be prohibitive to his being elevated to SFC. 2) The Captain is a thoughtless, mindless, cruel and insufferable idiot. Of course you would hope that such attributes as this would have found their way onto an OER or two, or maybe more. In the old days promotion from O-1 to O-2 was pretty much an automatic occurrence, and I think promotion to O-3 was a board action where performance reports would be scrutinized. I have no idea how the promotion system works anymore so I am basically unqualified to comment in that regard. In either case I feel strongly that the Captain's professionalism is definitely in question here. How to deal with it? FRAG her ass! LOL. Just kidding. I know, that was extremely unprofessional of me but I was NOT really serious. I am in complete agreement with utilizing the Chain of Command firstly before resorting to paying a visit to the IG's office. I have now been retired from service for longer than I served so there is most likely a whole lot which has changed since my time. So this makes this whole case so utterly unbelievable and unacceptable to me personally. It makes me question whether or not our military has gone into the dregs which also makes me doubt that I could serve in today's military. Very sad, actually, because I loved what I did and wouldn't take all of Donald Trump's billions for it.

Response by SGT Stephen George made Jul 3 at 2016 1:04 PM

2016-07-03T13:04:27-04:00

Sounds like the O is putting her nose in 1SG's business ...and any 1SG worth his/her salt isn't going to tolerate it for an instant. I actually witnessed a 1SG tell a "butter bar" to keep his "officer's nose" out of his first sergeant's business ...of course that was a future Ranger Hall of Fame Inductee telling off the officer so these kind of guys are few and far between.

Response by SSG Erik McKinster made Jul 3 at 2016 3:19 PM

2016-07-03T15:19:16-04:00

Sounds like an invitation to the wood line, if genders match... other than that, listen to top... NCO support channel, then chain of command, IG last resort.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 3:20 PM

2016-07-03T15:20:58-04:00

The SFC should have made an attempt to resolve the problems with this Captain first. The next step is to report this incident to the 1SG asap. If the problem is not rectified with the 1SG then the SFC needs to inform the Company XO and then later the Battalion CSM. I'm pretty sure it would be resolved or addressed at this level, but if not then proceed to the Battalion Commander. If the Brigade Commander and CSM have to resolve this problem at their level, its not going to look to good for the Battalion CDR, CSM, Company XO or 1SG. If this incident takes place a second time he should use the COC, but also file a formal administrative IG complaint and EO Complaint. I have seen this before, not the same incident, but leaders (Officer and Enlisted Senior NCO's) that abused their authority and they faced no type of disciplinary actions from their COC in a Garrison environment, but when they deployed and fell under a different COC and continued to abuse their authority, they were relieved of their Command or given bad evaluation reports. Don't know the entire story surrounding this incident, but if the CPT did truly chew his ass, which is not a problem if it was deserving, but in a private setting and also degrade his family members which is very wrong, it will catch up to the CPT eventually. if the CPT is truly abusing her authority it will be corrected by a good honorable field grade officer later on down the road.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 3:39 PM

2016-07-03T15:39:50-04:00

1SG Healy hit the nail on the head. This should have been the business of the 1SG to counsel the NCO one on one. If the CO wanted to add her two cents, the 1SG should've been present. Even if the NCO was a POS and the 1SG did nothing so the commander felt like she needed to step in, she should've first went to 1SG.
It would be a cold day in hell before I would let a CPT speak to me like that behind closed doors. If it wasn't behind closed doors, I would've halted the conversation and moved it behind closed doors so that the junior soldiers didn't have to witness it. Sad part is, you can't do this successfully if you are a POS, but you still don't have to take it. The minute my family was mentioned in a derogatory way, all bets are off. I would've left it up to a juror of my peers.

Response by SSG Danny Marsh made Jul 3 at 2016 3:46 PM

2016-07-03T15:46:06-04:00

It depends on the Chain of Command and who the individual trusts. The chain of command should always have the best interests of the Army on the forefront, but as a Veteran and as a Social Worker I have heard of many abuses by a service members chain of command. Is the immediate CoCa part of the solution or a part of the problem is the question

Response by SFC Vincent Pegues made Jul 3 at 2016 4:22 PM

2016-07-03T16:22:11-04:00

Bring back wall to wall counseling. Or head to the combative ring!

Response by SSG Paul Fekete Jr made Jul 3 at 2016 5:14 PM

2016-07-03T17:14:45-04:00

See how the Brass reacts, if the Command's atmosphere is non-reactive or praising this lack of qualified leadership, then the IG needs to be informed

Response by MSgt Thomas Newby made Jul 3 at 2016 5:56 PM

2016-07-03T17:56:13-04:00

There is no excuse.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Jul 3 at 2016 6:03 PM

2016-07-03T18:03:22-04:00

Was this in your CoC? If yes, take it up both the CoC and NCO support channel. Let your 1SG and CSM know what you witnessed. The will get with the SFC in question and get the CPT's Commander involved. If this doesn't work go to the IG. At a minimum you witnessed Conduct Unbecomming an Officer.

Response by TSgt Jamie Boylan made Jul 3 at 2016 8:22 PM

2016-07-03T20:22:43-04:00

I have one question, was this Captain the Company Commander for the SFC? To answer your question definitely chain of command then if no satisfactory action is taken, go to the IG.

Response by SSG Timothy Lanham made Jul 3 at 2016 8:30 PM

2016-07-03T20:30:03-04:00

Had a company commander that was one of the biggest PoS there was. It was always about him. If something did not go his way he acted like a 5 year old brat. Was forever cussing out the NCOs. It was hard to respect the rank when you could not respect the man wearing it. My CO and this one forget the basic rule about chewing out in private.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 8:58 PM

2016-07-03T20:58:36-04:00

My first and foremost issues is that its done in font of soldiers and junior NCO's. That def not needed and should be expressed in a private forum amongst peers. I don't need your opinions or thoughts affecting my soldiers view of there senior. At least not at that level. As Col Joseph Lenertz stated and I whole heartedly agree with him.

But disrespect is disrespect no matter what level. I wont degrade my soldiers, I might chew them a new one here or there but its in a refined setting mostly between just us and no others around.

Response by GySgt Jon White made Jul 3 at 2016 9:17 PM

2016-07-03T21:17:30-04:00

Nothing's going to happen to that witch, not in today's military, she's a member of a protected class, she's bullet proof, and she knows it. Hell, she'll be the champion of the rest of the coven for striking a blow against the patriarchy, or some other such horseshit.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 9:59 PM

2016-07-03T21:59:21-04:00

Just be happy it's not a navy O3. They can murder someone with witnesses and you as a sinior nco in the army have to go through the accused to accuse them. if you don't and manage to get to someone with a higher rank the navy won't give a shit they talk it over wilst having some tea and then you can now call yourself a jonior nco. I'll never do joint duty again.

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Jul 3 at 2016 11:19 PM

2016-07-03T23:19:42-04:00

Someone in this thread was saying that the top brass will usually dictate to the lower commands what kind of action to take...isn't it illegal for a higher up commander to do that to a subordinate command?

Response by SSG Johnny Daniels made Jul 3 at 2016 11:22 PM

2016-07-03T23:22:45-04:00

Go with the IG. Chain of command is exactly what it implies; chain! Who wants the link in their chain broken? There's always a chance that you won't reach the top of that chain if necessary. Go with IG, or Jag!

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jul 3 at 2016 11:37 PM

2016-07-03T23:37:29-04:00

Always start with your chain of command.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jul 3 at 2016 11:40 PM

2016-07-03T23:40:43-04:00

If I were a troop, I would tell the Sgt Major. The Sgt Major has direct access to the CO. If the CO finds the Capt was out of line (How could you not?!!), then the CO can give the Capt a fitrep that will ensure they never get promoted again.

Response by PO1 Javid Benson made Jul 3 at 2016 11:41 PM

2016-07-03T23:41:46-04:00

I don't know how the Army get done but in the Aviation Det community that's a closed door discussion with the biggest man or woman coming out on top. I seen a few officers get their butts whipped for thinking they was big and bad. When they say ship underway if u disrespect me you better be ready to meet me so we can handle this like men

Response by PO3 Mack McLendon made Jul 3 at 2016 11:45 PM

2016-07-03T23:45:07-04:00

Frag

Response by SPC Louis Copechal made Jul 4 at 2016 5:19 AM

2016-07-04T05:19:25-04:00

First and foremost is the chain of command. Since it is the CPT doing it and going as far as bringing in PERSONAL LIFE into an argument said CPT should face a reprimand board. Since the SFC CAN'T report it to the CPT he must then address it too the MASTER SGT. If that fails it should be reported to the FIRST SGT. If not resolved that way they must continue on up the ladder until it is resolved. Sounds like the CPT has blatant disrespect for this particular SFC.

Response by CPL Maurice Myrick made Jul 4 at 2016 10:39 AM

2016-07-04T10:39:43-04:00

Document and Report thru Chain of Command

Response by SFC Joseph A. Anderson made Jul 4 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-07-04T12:28:17-04:00

The SFC should go speak with her Commanding Officer. That is conduct unbecoming of an Officer. If she denied it, witnesses could be brought in. This should take care of the immediate problem. Secondly, If she is in charge of that NCO, he will need to moved.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Jul 4 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-07-04T12:39:49-04:00

This is not an IG issue. If the CPT is approachable, it would be perfectly OK to discuss it with that CPT, but the SFC should probably do so not in public and in the presence of the 1SG or CSM. Generally, the CSM will have a calming influence.

The SFC should exhaust CoC and NCO support channels before escalating. If the CPT is the SFC's CO, then the next recourse is Article 138. The SFC must use some discretion and should consult legal assistance prior to doing so. If there is no violation of the law, no pattern of cruelty, no basis for EEOC violation, no provocation (getting dressed down isn't provocation), etc. it will likely be dealt with informally. It's not against the law to be an asshole.

Response by SFC Mark Marus made Jul 4 at 2016 2:36 PM

2016-07-04T14:36:05-04:00

Berating is never a good way to solve a problem. I don't have the luxury of having all the facts; however, as an NCO, you always pull the troop off to the side and talk. You don't berate, you talk. You certainly don't go around afterwards and tell everyone what happened. The SFC probably has more time on leave than the CPT has in the Army. I'm normally not one to ask for one; but, she should have to issue an apology to the SFC and all those she bragged to should be there to bare witness.

Response by CPT Louis Clark made Jul 4 at 2016 3:04 PM

2016-07-04T15:04:06-04:00

Highly in professional on the CPTs part. We have given and received ass chewings, but it was and should be related to the task that was failed. It should never be a personal attack. We all make mistakes and we all screw up, but that does not justify a public personal attack. CPT watch out the IG may want to talk to you.

Response by SGT David Stead made Jul 4 at 2016 3:20 PM

2016-07-04T15:20:48-04:00

Chain of command first then IG.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 5:01 PM

2016-07-04T17:01:48-04:00

Report to CoC and then IG would be my route.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 5:03 PM

2016-07-04T17:03:18-04:00

I would push this up the chain of command first and if it doesn't get taken care of then ad only then would I go to IG about it.

Response by 1LT Lou Baglietto made Jul 4 at 2016 5:29 PM

2016-07-04T17:29:06-04:00

Time to talk to the First Sergeant who should talk to the Captain behind closed ( which the CPT should of had the leadership to do) the First Seegeant should tell the CPT the errors of her way.

Response by SSG Ken Manley made Jul 4 at 2016 5:37 PM

2016-07-04T17:37:19-04:00

As an "Old School" NCO, I remember a WWII vets CSM telling me as a young E4, If you ever want to get back at an officer, just wait for the right moment aND do EXACTLY what that young Officer tells you. No more, no less. It will work out...... (smile )

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 7:39 PM

2016-07-04T19:39:28-04:00

Choke slam always works. Put the fear back into these damn soldiers

Response by CW2 Angela Burns made Jul 4 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-07-04T20:25:28-04:00

That Officer should be given the same punishment as any other soldiers. She's not only Unbecoming of a Soldier, unprofessional and a Horrible, Horrible supposed too be Leader. And she's still in a leadership position responsible for soldiers, mentally, physically and emotional well being too insure that her NCO. Continually to have a great mindset to take care and trained his Surbordinates. Without having to worry St the same time about his Family's Well Being. Its obvious that there's a problem in that Command, since this unnamed officer has not called forward to Stand on the Famous Red Carpet. I would have A Brigade or Battion Meeting or where ever this unprofessional incident took place. And administer Punishment and let all of the Young Officers know that you have no right to try too destroy a persons career. And start Chapter proceedings on this Nut Job. Just unfreaking believable.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 8:29 PM

2016-07-04T20:29:37-04:00

Perhaps it was failure of the Officer's leadership and lack of respect for the SFC. Belittling a Soldier or any Family members is a NO GO. The CPT could have spoken to the SFC with respect, and in professional manner but this was not the case. The SFC should seek out the professional advice of the CSM and perhaps the CSM could correct the issue on the spot with the help of the XO, the BN or BDE CDR.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Jul 4 at 2016 10:47 PM

2016-07-04T22:47:31-04:00

Always through the chain of command first...then if you really honestly believe you have been treated un fairly then go to the IG's office.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 11:34 PM

2016-07-04T23:34:22-04:00

During my time in the Navy, a chief, senior chief, or master chief would've been wearing that particular officers skin as a coat. Not sure of the particulars of how it got started, but family members are off limits. Officer or not, I would've had to squash that out quickly.

Response by SGT James Mayes made Jul 4 at 2016 11:45 PM

2016-07-04T23:45:40-04:00

Question is this CPT, in the CoC?

Response by MSG David Villasenor made Jul 4 at 2016 11:50 PM

2016-07-04T23:50:55-04:00

when an officer becomes belligerent and unprofessional, that certain officer loses the confidence of the troops, specially if the officer is in a leadership position. We have to think about the mental actitude of the officer. Is the officer frame of mind set to belittle all the NCO's ? or this officer feels that since the officer is not college educated(I imagine) , that will give her a sense of superiority over the troops that did not completed college. finally, if said officer lost her bearing as a leader, and lost the confidence of the NCO's then that officer should be remove from her leadership position.
P.D family should be sacred and should always be respected by anybody in the service regardless of rank.. I know of many officers as well as enlisted soldiers who got their ass kick for being disrespectful towards family of fellow soldiers.

Response by SFC Ian Lumgair made Jul 4 at 2016 11:58 PM

2016-07-04T23:58:42-04:00

It works like this
Sir / Ma'am. it your prerogative to relieve me of my duties at your digression. Other wise this conversation will not take place here and now. We can make arraignments to have this conversation take place in-front of my senior NCO leadership and your Commander. You have a good day Sir/Ma'am.
Used it multiple times in my carrier. Usually had cooler heads prevailed end up with an apology and four friends that I count to this day with my back.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 12:06 AM

2016-07-05T00:06:46-04:00

If it goes through the chain of command wouldn't have to go through the same commander also.

Response by Vern Byrd made Jul 5 at 2016 10:13 AM

2016-07-05T10:13:34-04:00

always thru chain of command

Response by SFC Jay Levine made Jul 5 at 2016 10:18 AM

2016-07-05T10:18:08-04:00

This happens all to often with who are power hungry. The way I'd handle this is to get the individual alone and have a talk with them. A talk not an argument, because even senior NCO's don't win arguments with officers. A leader who leads through fear and intimidation is no leader. If the talk did not help or stop it then taking up the support chain would be the next step. The part about the family fortunately I never had to deal with, because I don't know how I would have handled it .

Response by SSgt Bruce McClelland made Jul 5 at 2016 10:18 AM

2016-07-05T10:18:41-04:00

There are several good responses and solutions below. Yes, even if the NCO had royally screwed up, the officer was totally out of line in what she did. I'll use my own father as a better way to handle it. He was a USAF CMSgt and 1 of his airmen told my sister, "I really screwed up and your dad had me into his office. He never raised his voice, he never cursed, and he never insulted me; but I knew I had been royally chewed out." He became a better airman for it and he still respected my dad as well.

Response by SSG Jose j Hernandez made Jul 5 at 2016 10:30 AM

2016-07-05T10:30:21-04:00

Short and sweet, leave family out and keep the argument private SFC /CPT don't make a show no matter who has the reason

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 10:54 AM

2016-07-05T10:54:26-04:00

Report it to the Chain of Command. If they fail to take appropriate action, take it to the IG.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 12:58 PM

2016-07-05T12:58:22-04:00

Report it. NO ONE should be treated with anything less than dignity and respect. CGOs are still being groomed for future leadership positions and toxic leadership is UNSAT.

Response by SGT Nathaniel Wilkinson made Jul 5 at 2016 3:27 PM

2016-07-05T15:27:11-04:00

Written report should go to the CPT chain of command and to the IG. This was unprofessional, and if done in public view of others - unwarranted. Conduct unbecoming in my opinion. Just because she is an officer, she is not right in this instance.

Response by SGT Stephen George made Jul 5 at 2016 5:35 PM

2016-07-05T17:35:40-04:00

If you really want justice ...simply "out soldier" the officer in question. Begin by always leading by example ...a true leader doesn't make anyone do anything; (s)he inspires others to want to complete the job at hand. With regard to CoC vs IG, Managers do things the right way ...Leaders do the right thing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 6:24 PM

2016-07-05T18:24:54-04:00

Always start with the chain of command. Do what your rank can afford. If all else fails and there is still a problem then IG, but they can only recommend a solution from what I understand

Response by Cpl Richard Yobs made Jul 5 at 2016 7:35 PM

2016-07-05T19:35:08-04:00

Marine corps way . School circle quarter deck and there would be an a$$ woopin. Problem solved

Response by SSgt William Mavis made Jul 5 at 2016 8:20 PM

2016-07-05T20:20:35-04:00

article 136,but damn sure have your ducks in a row

Response by SCPO Rodolfo Ledesma made Jul 5 at 2016 8:22 PM

2016-07-05T20:22:16-04:00

Both, immediately!

Response by SSG Kevin Jones made Jul 5 at 2016 8:42 PM

2016-07-05T20:42:11-04:00

Chain of Command first and if that didn't work, definitely be a legitimate IG complaint.

Response by SGT Peter Gallagher made Jul 5 at 2016 9:38 PM

2016-07-05T21:38:56-04:00

If you stick around long enough, be prepared to call her Col some day.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Jul 5 at 2016 9:48 PM

2016-07-05T21:48:26-04:00

Go to the CO, tell him/her what you witnessed and express your disappointment. I did the same as a Marine Corporal when on active duty, I got the results I expected, the Captain was hauled onto the carpet and I was never involved after seeing the CO.

Response by MSgt John Millaway made Jul 6 at 2016 12:21 AM

2016-07-06T00:21:20-04:00

As a senior NCO, I would hope the troops supported him. Officers in good standing know who teaches the troops. If the troops agree with the "O", then they let it happen. If the troops support the SNSO, they should have stood behond him/her. If that was the case the SNCO would have no reason to file a complaint. I have had "O"s who hated the SNCO, but remained professional, just as an SNCO should back the "O" regardless of opinion. NCO' should not report in "O"' unless a career is in jeopardy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 8:02 AM

2016-07-06T08:02:27-04:00

Disrespecting an NCO is inexcusable. I would utilize the NCO support channel and allow the CSM to advise the CoC. Then everyone needs to let it go and move on. dwelling on something said out of frustration and anger will cause negative results.

Response by GySgt Stanton Wilson made Jul 6 at 2016 8:24 AM

2016-07-06T08:24:32-04:00

She should be thankful the SFC maintained his composure. I've had a similar situation and it didn't go well for the officer. Remember if you open that door of disrespect there may be someone willing to dress you down also. If you cursed me, you most likely got the same in return, and I wasn't concerned with your rank. Remember rank gives no one the privilege of being disrespectful.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 8:37 AM

2016-07-06T08:37:40-04:00

At least a couple of Soldiers need to go see the Chaplain.

Response by TSgt Michael P Reed made Jul 6 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-07-06T09:13:08-04:00

Well, when I was in, This was called conduct unbecoming of an officer (or an NCO) to go off like this on a lower rank. At the very least it would lead to a letter of reprimand for the senior individual in a one on one encounter and could be an article 15 in a situation where by the "chewing out" was done in from of Others.

Response by SSG Michael Primm made Jul 6 at 2016 11:32 AM

2016-07-06T11:32:53-04:00

Nothing is going happen and never will. Just suck it up and drive on.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 12:17 PM

2016-07-06T12:17:05-04:00

I would definitely take it to higher chain of command and then if nothing was done I'd call IG but another option too is a good chaplain.

Response by SPC Jim Johnson made Jul 6 at 2016 12:39 PM

2016-07-06T12:39:22-04:00

Use the Chain of Command. The IG is the last resort when the normal channels fail.

Response by LT John Ritenour made Jul 6 at 2016 12:51 PM

2016-07-06T12:51:55-04:00

Totally unprofessional. Unless the circumstances warrant it, dressing down anyone, especially a Sr NCO in Public is not appropriate. Bringing an individual's family into the matter, is inappropriate in any circumstance. This just plain wrong.

Response by SP6 Skip Evans made Jul 6 at 2016 3:43 PM

2016-07-06T15:43:58-04:00

I have dealt with Officers (West Point grads) like this. I gave them enough rope to hang themselves, then kindly let them know they screwed up.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:48 PM

2016-07-06T16:48:34-04:00

Always go the chain-of-command route first. If this CPT is a Company Commander (and you want to be a dick) send a congressional to both Senators, Congressman, The President IG, CG's hotline, and the BN and BDE CDR at the same time. Stand back and watch the hilarity.

Response by PO3 Erik Jensen made Jul 6 at 2016 6:24 PM

2016-07-06T18:24:20-04:00

I had a similar, but very different situation happen, to me. Ships store had just opened and the guy on watch called me to see if I would pick him yup a bag of chips. Sure, no problem, I said. As I was entering the radio room, the XO (female-Commander) was exiting. She saw what I had in my hands and proceeded to give me a hard time about it. A really hard time. Yes, I was heavy, but under the weight standards. As she ripped into me, she made me feel about 2 inches tall, which pissed me off. I did not yell back or anything, I just sort of stood there, dumb founded at being yelled at because I had a bag of chips in my hand. The only reason she stopped ripping into me was that the 2nd class petty officer, of whom the chips were for, told her that the chips were for him. No apology, no by your leave, she made another snarky comment about my weight and then left the radio room. I was pissed, in shock, dumbfounded and confused because I really did not understand what had just happened. The 2nd class, he was shocked too, which prompted a lengthy discussion with my Chief. I decided that I needed to protect myself somehow, so I wrote a paper/memo concerning harassment and submitted it up the chain of command. Each step of the way, I was counseled about how this might be really bad for my future. At that point, I did not care. From my Chief, to the Chief of the Boat, to the Ops Officer. I was told it was given to the Captain but he never addressed it with me, not that I expected him to. I just wanted him to read it, which the Ops Officer said he did. The XO did not come down to the radio room for a long time, which made most of us there pretty happy.
So, yeah, going up the chain of command is what I recommend.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Jul 6 at 2016 7:10 PM

2016-07-06T19:10:17-04:00

No Officer should act like that because it is unprofessional and unbecoming. If there was a personnel thing between the SFC and the CPT then she should have talked to him behind closed doors because she just lost the respect (if it was there in the first place) of all members who heard her, something she will have a hard time getting back. Even not knowing the full story or reason why the CPT acted like this, she should be reported regardless of her position simply because Officers do not act that why or shouldn't. Finally, if she was not reprimanded by the Command, the best option, though not a good one would be a transfer of either party because trouble will be brewing and eventually would boil over into a situation that would be an embarrassment to the Unit, the Command and the Service.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 7:52 PM

2016-07-06T19:52:57-04:00

"...but included the family members."

Is this Captain actually a Company Commander? Because that's how you lose confidence in the commander's ability and fitness to command.
Chain of command, first. Without a doubt. Whatever led up to this meltdown has to be addressed, as well. Stuff like rarely happens in a vacuum.

I've taken and given some pretty intense counselling. Never, ever, ever did I ever insult a Soldier's family member. That is not a smart move, and I know many people who settled the issue and their career with an "Irish discussion." Striking an officer is against the UCMJ...no matter how well deserved it may be.

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made Jul 6 at 2016 8:35 PM

2016-07-06T20:35:54-04:00

You are a SSG. The CPT was speaking to a SFC. If the SFC is too weak to know her options, and how to utilize her NCO Support Channel, then she probably deserved to be tore up from the floor up. Keep a log of the incident, but stay clear of it, it's not your business, and a female SFC doesn't need a white knight.

Response by SGT John Stelly made Jul 6 at 2016 10:28 PM

2016-07-06T22:28:31-04:00

If this was done in front of the company with subordinates present especially lower enlisted that would be completely out of bounds unless that NCO just nearly got someone killed due to gross negligence and he's getting ripped out of anger ,but even still. Family members are off-limits though, that is inexcusable no officer should do that in any way shape or form. I think that there is a time and place for everything and if she was chewing him out behind closed doors that is one thing ,but chewing a senior NCO in front of everyone and mentioning family is simply unacceptable. That is something for the 1SG if you ask me and a good one will put the CPT in their place if they do something like that.

Response by CPT Tom Fawls made Jul 6 at 2016 10:38 PM

2016-07-06T22:38:46-04:00

Unfortunately, just because one is commissioned an officer, it does not mean that one is automatically granted understanding, class, couth or common sense.

The SFC needs to understqand that there are actually officers who are assholes; shake it off and drive on. :(

Response by PO2 Dan Shulla made Jul 6 at 2016 11:01 PM

2016-07-06T23:01:44-04:00

That capt was unprofessional as hell and lost respect of any witnessing this. It will get up the chain of command...always does

Response by SPC Seany Weaver made Jul 6 at 2016 11:33 PM

2016-07-06T23:33:58-04:00

Unfortunately this is where friendly fire comes from. Whether on the battle field or on the home front. You can't treat your subordinates like this and expect them to have your back

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 11:37 PM

2016-07-06T23:37:39-04:00

Forgive my presumption as a Junior Enlisted, but I've held rank in excess of my position and I just want to make the point that "behind closed doors anything goes." I've had nasty, epic, knock down, drag out conflicts with leadership before. We've gotten heated. Said F-'D up, nasty things to each other and still worked things out and come to a satisfactory conclusion but that's only possible when you separate the personal aspect of the confrontation/counseling from the professional development aspect. I mean... who cares how it's said the fact that "it" needs to be said indicates that there's room for improvement on one end at least that's what the focus should be, not petty, whiny butt-hurt.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jul 7 at 2016 12:00 AM

2016-07-07T00:00:50-04:00

Unprofessional behavior is not acceptable in any circumstance. It should be handled when seen...even if the "offending party" is of higher rank. If you are afraid of reprisals, you run it up the flagpole first. If that yields no positive result then by all means take to the IG. That is why it exists. If you want to make an issue of the conduct, you must be able to "man up," stand up and make sure you have your big boys pants on securely. Actions have consequences and unprofessional acts by anyone are never acceptable and doing so publicly instead of behind closed doors makes it even more egregious.

Response by HN Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 1:03 AM

2016-07-07T01:03:16-04:00

They have been teaching us to confront the person one on one and then if things escalate then you should use the CoC but with it being someone higher ranking than you I would personally talk to the CoC

Response by SFC L.a. Rodriguez-Esquilin made Jul 7 at 2016 1:09 AM

2016-07-07T01:09:28-04:00

The Captain must be having personal issues. Some task may be so simple.. When confronted with an inability to professionally accomplish a simple task, when already upset, anyone would snap.
All that could happen, since there was not any physical violence, is a reprimand or a simple apology.
I want to know why he snapped!
Although, his reaction was unprofessional

Response by SFC L.a. Rodriguez-Esquilin made Jul 7 at 2016 1:21 AM

2016-07-07T01:21:14-04:00

The Marines on this post are out there bad! Lol! Especially the navy guy... I always new there are clicks in upper level officer core that hate some folks! And would conspire to throw folks overboard! Just saying!

Response by CPL Jim Bosch made Jul 7 at 2016 8:24 AM

2016-07-07T08:24:25-04:00

Get the a tuall specifics. Maybe she was right, if not she EEDS to be counceld, possibly lose command if she has again if circumstances warrant ut atleast re-trained on how to and when repremand a SFC...... as they were probably older and in the Army yrs longer than the Captain. Nkt enough info to actually give full opinion, just a short summization of what should bappen. But FIRST more info.

Response by TSgt Julie Miller made Jul 7 at 2016 9:59 AM

2016-07-07T09:59:31-04:00

I've known a few officers and NCO's in my day who did the same thing. They immediately lost respect in the eyes of those around them, both above, equal to and below. Because they lost their military bearing, those in their immediate chain of command found them to be unable to properly lead. While not knowing the entire situation, I can surmise that this officer either had the ego of rank complex, was trying to address a negative situation without proper understanding of how to do so, or just has no idea of how to be a strong and effective leader.

There are many discipline and codes of conduct issues in our military and there always has been. A good leader uses tact and diplomacy to correct any given situation. To use bearing such as this is to show weakness and lack of respect for the individual they are addressing.

I would hope that in retrospect this officer realized that aggressive action is not always the most effective, especially when trying to lead by example.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 1:26 PM

2016-07-07T13:26:34-04:00

Always be careful, institutional corruption runs very deep. So high there are people 2 or 3 fold removed from the actual matter. But they will interject and it will most likely be against you. In todays day and time, the game is played out like this. * Your tagged as being a problem and your attacked from behind any way they can get to you. No - No not with fists but with administrative action. And stonewalling which could lead you or any person to spend 2 years or even 5 years of you mental energy expecting an outcome that will never be.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2016 2:11 AM

2016-07-18T02:11:17-04:00

Always start with the lowest form of resolution possible. An IG complaint would be jumping the gun a little bit. Don't blindside the entire command.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 2:54 PM

2016-09-14T14:54:38-04:00

Always start with the COC... if there is a conflict there, I would suggest talking with your EO representative.

Response by SFC Brian Ewing made Nov 3 at 2016 1:19 PM

2016-11-03T13:19:56-04:00

You are always, I mean always supposed to handle any conflicts at the lowest level of command first. It is not a good look for the overall unit if a Soldier feels he/she has to go outside of the unit to handle problems, it spells out a problem either with the Soldier having no confidence in his Leaders to get it done or a problem with Toxic Leadership in general.
Even if a unit has Toxic Leadership it is still our duty to inform them of incidences and give them a chance to correct the problem and if they don't and you have ran it all the way up the flagpole properly and your/the problem hasn't been addressed/fixed then you have every right to contact the IG, seek out a Congressional or however you want to try and resolve the matter as long as it isn't illegal or immoral.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Nov 18 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-11-18T11:01:02-05:00

SSG Madden--Take this to your 1st Sergeant, and let him deal with it through the unit commander. If it's the commander doing this, the 1st Sergeant should speak to the Sergeant Major. In this way a subordinate officer will be counseled for their conduct toward NCO's. Don't directly interject yourself into this situation. Let the people above you deal with it. In the long run it works out better that way

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Oct 24 at 2017 11:12 AM

2017-10-24T11:12:40-04:00

Chain of Command first unless the issue is the chain of command give them a chance to fix it

Response by SFC Keith Frain made Mar 22 at 2018 11:46 PM

2018-03-22T23:46:10-04:00

All, bottom line is this; a conversation which takes place between "2" personnel, becomes a difficult "He said, She said" scenario. However, once a credible 3rd/4th party can collaborate said conversation....game over.
If I may share something really quick, I started off as an Infantry Soldier, very rarely did I every speak to anyone higher than my PSG; officers were just not part of the equation.
When I switched to the Medical Field, Officers and Enlisted of all ranks intermingled on a daily basis; on many occasions "the Thin Red Line" wasn't even apparent. It takes both Officers and Enlisted to remember we all have our jobs to do, no matter how close the work area is. It sounds easier than said, but it will never be an easy answer.

God Bless, and good luck

Response by CWO4 Jim Doran made Nov 28 at 2018 3:12 AM

2018-11-28T03:12:13-05:00

Through the Chain of Command. If you go to the IG you'd be on the CO's S*** List for going over his/her head. Even the few times (twice) I went over my COs head I insured he knew it in advance and that he knew why. The bottom line is this CPT (or Navy LT) was dead wrong and was just trying to establish herself in the pecking order. I once heard a female National Guard BG give a USA CW5 an order to which the CW5 looked at her and said "Are you out of your rabbit ass mind?" She laughed at him and said well I thought I'd try to give you an order. The BG was the CW5's wife.

Response by SSG Andre Jordan made May 9 at 2019 1:31 AM

2019-05-09T01:31:35-04:00

Always give your chain of command a chance to handle a situation. You can cause major problems if you don’t.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Nov 22 at 2019 8:29 PM

2019-11-22T20:29:30-05:00

I surmise that a person that had a good formal education with knowledge of psychology and social skills may use those skills to undermind the person taunting them.. I believe though that person better have me more than “just some” knowledge but to have a lot of it, because it might backfire on them and they be in deeper than they want to be.. So the best deal is follow the chain of command and let them deal with the bully. What I
know is what common sense taught me and to let the professionals handle it..

Response by MSG David Villasenor made Feb 20 at 2020 3:07 AM

2020-02-20T03:07:47-05:00

I would inform my 1sgt and proceed to contact my sargent major in order to get the battalion commander involved. That specific action will guaranteed an outcome regarding the conduct unbecoming an officer on the CPT's part. use the change of command always.

Response by SSG George Holtje made May 25 at 2020 3:28 PM

2020-05-25T15:28:01-04:00

I’m sure this was asked “What did the SFC do?”
I’ve heard similar things said about a SNCO/Officer using grade and position to get into a lower enlisted soldiers pants.

From a SFC to a PV2 who was caught drinking with his buddy on guard(the buddy was passed out in the snow) in Kosovo.
Any number of Team Leaders and SPCs being the cocaine connection in the barracks resulting in major combat power loss due to chapters.

No CPT should be smirking and bragging about cutting into anyone(if they deserved it or not) Actions like that degrade the Officer Corps.
On the other hand, I have found myself wanting to confront a SNCO for bringing discredit on the Corps of Non Commisioned Officers by being unprofessional, arrogant, insubordinate and/or insulting because of last nights bender and this mornings coffee recharge(preferably in the wood line or behind the dumpsters)