Should I retire as a W3 (Reserve), or E7 (Active Duty)?

Sat, 17 Sep 2022 11:22:38 -0400

I am an AGR E6 with 17 yrs of service (15.5 yrs active + 1.5 reserve). I'm on track to retire as an E7 at 20 years of AFS (21.5 years total). Right now I am guaranteed promotion to WO1 if I transfer to TPU (drilling reservist) status. If I take this path I see myself retiring as a W3, however, I won't receive retirement benefits until age 60. Right now I'm 38. I'm torn between these two options. Any advice?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2022 11:26 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 11:26:35 -0400

I'd retire as an E7 active duty and embark on another career. You're so close! Think about the benefits. Half of your base pay PLUS another career's benefits? Why wait till age 60 (normally) to draw a pension? Juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2022 3:06 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 15:06:25 -0400

You need 20 years ACTIVE to draw immediately.

Can you get WO after you get 20 active? Or are you going to hit the age limits of WO?

I haven't done the math for your situation but intuitively mathematically
SOONER is better than later.
MORE is better than less.

So the question is.............. does MORE (better) later (worse) out weight LESS (worse) sooner (better)?

OK, I'll do the math for you, that's not that hard actually (for me anyway). I'll have to make some assumptions though.

*************
IDEALLY........... the best outcome would be 20 active so you can draw immediately, but then at best bump your pay scale with CWO pay and draw once you locked in your WO time.

However, I think the biggest down side is I believe you need to hold a commissioned status for 10 years to "retire" as commissioned.

Anyway, let me get to crunching those numbers.

Response by COL Randall C. made Sep 17 at 2022 3:31 PM

COL Randall C. — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 15:31:10 -0400

I'm with MSG Private RallyPoint Member on this one ... bird in the hand and all that.

*** WARNING ***
Geeky math ahead. Turn back now if you are subjected to painful flashbacks to math classes.
*** WARNING ***

Assume you earn the "average" points a reservist picks up each year when drilling if they do no additional active duty time (78 - 15 from membership, 15 from AT, and 48 UTAs)

Let's assume you punch out at 20 years active (21.5 total) and that you spend your last three years as a SFC (high 3 retirement). That'll give you just shy of a 51% retirement. E7 with 20 years gets a monthly check of $5232.60 right now. That means a bit over $32k/year as a retirement pension (of course, it's going to be different because your annual pay will change with COLA increases and 'other stuff', but figure that as a good ballpark).

You'll be 42.5 when you punch out. Those intervening 17.5 years means that you'll have over $560k in retirement that you'll have received before you would be able to collect on a reserve retirement (again, that number if a SWAG .. COLA will make it higher). Add onto that the fact that you'll get medical as soon as you retire instead of having to wait until you're 60.

Even if you entertained going the TPU route, here's a rough SWAG at the numbers. You'll make WO2 after two years and assume you make the board and get WO3 five years after that. Add another three years on in order to get your high-3. That means another 10 years as a M-Day and you'll be 48 when you retire.

Again, assuming 78 points a year .. those 10 years (plus the 1.5 you have now) will give you another 897 points .. add your AD time and that gives you right at a 45% retirement (give or take a point).

So, you'll be pulling down $41.5k/year at 60 if you go the M-day route or $32k/year a year when you walk out the door if you stay the course being an AGR. For easy math sake, we'll give call the WO3 retirement route $42k/year ... that's a difference of $10k from the SFC route. The disparity between the two figures is offset by what you'll make in a drilling status (call it $15k/year as an average over the 10 years drilling)

As pointed out before, you'll make ~$560k before you would start collecting if you went the WO3 route. Knock that down by $150k that you would make over the 10 years of drilling. That means you'll have to live to an age of 101 just to break even on the monetary difference .. and that doesn't include the medical insurance angle (which may or may not make a difference depending on your civilian insurance, if any, but likely it WOULD be a factor).

So, you don't have to take our words for it .. you can breakout a spreadsheet and put all the calculations down yourself ... make adjustments based on "what if" scenarios (other things to throw in IF you decided to do this is a year by year breakdown of what you make ... assumptions of when you'll be promoted ... assumption of what COLA raise would be each year .. etc).

However, I think you're going to be very hard pressed to find something that makes more financial sense than staying the course on being an AGR.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2022 3:43 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 15:43:54 -0400

OH, here we go..............

The financial question is do you take SFC retirement pay ASAP, or do you take CW3 pay later at age 60 which is 22 years away.

Over those 22 years you'll also earn reserve retirement points and your retirement factor will increase greatly over the current number of points your factor will be based on your 21.5 years as SFC.

Now............ I will spare everyone the details, but mention I used a 2% discount rate, and the latest pay tables I found on the internet. Otherwise all the information is out there to do the calculation I did.

I answered the question:
At what point in the future to the soldier's AGE are BOTH scenarios economically equal to each other.

Which MEANS!!!!!!!! if the soldier is expected to OUTLIVE that equilibrium age then of course the choice would be to postpone SFC retirement NOW and take CW3 pay LATER.

That age is 117. One Hundred and Seventeen.

*********
Summary

There are many finer details and nuances that will make up the retirement pay, but mathematically further nuances of semantics of retirement pay is overwhelmed by TWENTY TWO YEARS of postponed payments at SFC pay to get CW3 pay at a much later date in time.

Moreover, the income earned as a CWO during those 22 years is not considered because that income is WORKED FOR, whereas the SFC retirement pay is sit on your butt money.

**********
The BEST financial course of action is to retire as SFC ASAP then pick up a SECOND career and DOUBLE DIP. That DOUBLE DIP is effectively like going into the TPU program as a WO, but in that path you DO NOT get to collect your SFC retirement.

Where as one could do ANY civilian career path from flipping burgers to the CEO with a 7 figure income and BOTH could collect that SFC retirement pay.

The ONLY pathway in the future of the soldier that prevents him from collecting the SFC retirement pay is continuation in the USAR.

*********
Finally............
The Net Present Value I calculated for SFC retirement pay over the next 22 years is $776,000. That is the economic benefit postponed to collect CW3 pay at age 60, and it takes an additional 57 years until in year 58 that the soldier starts get a greater economic benefit.

Remember, all during that calculation timeline the SFC pathway is ALWAYS earning income. Where as the CWO pathway has $0 for the first 22 years.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2022 3:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 15:48:31 -0400

Let me throw another variable at you.
Under 10USC12741 if you do at least 2 years of TPU service after you have 20 years AFS before collecting an active retirement then you can re compute your retirement to a reserve retirement after the Gray area.

Response by MSG William Wold made Sep 17 at 2022 8:32 PM

MSG William Wold — Sat, 17 Sep 2022 20:32:44 -0400

I believe you have to do 7 years as a reservist to add to your military time to get your retirement later

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 18 at 2022 6:36 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 06:36:58 -0400

I view this the same as Social Security. Take what is in front of you, none of us know how long we will be on this planet. Put the gloom and doom aside, do the math I am pretty sure what you will draw over 20 plus years outweighs what you will make in the distant future. Of course many would advise differently, you’ve earned it.

Response by CPO Melvin Miller made Sep 18 at 2022 3:05 PM

CPO Melvin Miller — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:05:55 -0400

I worked for a CWO 2 for a couple years. he was getting ready to retire after twenty plus years. He had the option to retire at CWO2- orE-9. At that time his pay would have been more for E-9. Last i heard he worked another twenty plus years all the while getting his retirement and medical. Worked for him.

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made Oct 17 at 2022 1:12 PM

MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow — Mon, 17 Oct 2022 13:12:20 -0400

What is the guarantee that you will ever see WO3? What are your chances of making E7 in the next three years, I'd take the money and run.

Response by SGT Patrick Sullivan made Oct 19 at 2022 12:50 AM

SGT Patrick Sullivan — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 00:50:14 -0400

Don't judge me, here. Just passing on info for you to consider.
When you retire from "Active" duty, Uncle Sugar can drag you out of retirement.
He can't do that to a "Reservist".

Response by COL Alfred Carter made Oct 19 at 2022 10:32 AM

COL Alfred Carter — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 10:32:30 -0400

As an Army enlisted reservist who transitioned to active duty as a Commissioned Officer and spent 28 years serving, the math simply does not work out unless you plan to live until you are well over 100 years of age. Quite frankly, not many of us are that fortunate. Also, considering that if you've done 17 years already, and the Army has impacted your body medically, you will be eligible for VA disability. A lot of us don't consider this aspect of their service, but it is certainly important. This is a benefit that you earn/have earned as a product of your service. Your retirement plus whatever disability you qualify for, will add to your retirement income. Just following some simple math, 2023 VA disability rates at 30% with spouse is approximately $560 per month; 50% is $1160 per month and 100% disability is twice that. (This could account for the $6K to 10K or more annually you are concerned about - - just request and keep a copy of your medical record.) When you tack that possible disability income to your $33K retirement for the rest of your life, mathematically, it makes no sense to wait - - the result is simply not worth the effort, or in other vernacular - - the juice is not worth the squeeze. Thanks for your service and good luck with this decision.

Response by COL Alfred Carter made Oct 19 at 2022 10:48 AM

COL Alfred Carter — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 10:48:28 -0400

As an Army Enlisted Reservist and National Guardsman who transitioned to Active Duty and spent 28 years serving, I can empathize with your decision. Bottom line up front: the effort will not be worth the result. Here's why. If you spend the 21 years in your current status and gain the E7 promotion, your retirement income will likely amount to around $33-$34K annually. If you account for the time between your retirement and your ability to draw your retirement by going the TPU/AGR route, you will lose a metric buttload of money (over $550K), that you could be using to enhance your quality of life right away. Also, one variable that is not being addressed is VA disability. Few of us leave military service unscathed. We will have some disability or disabilities, which under the VA are compensable. For example, based on the 2023 estimates, a 30% disability with spouse will add approximately $560 per month to your retirement. At 50%, that disability equates to approximately $1,160 per month compensation, and at 100% disability twice that of the 50% amount. If you know you have suffered some injuries and have documentation to support those injuries, this has to be a consideration. Now, for the $6K or so you were waiting around for, the VA disability could offset that. Did I mention you get that disability for as long as you live as well?
This should help you with your decision point and understanding that the reward is not worth the risk. Good luck as you consider retirement and thanks for your service?

Response by 1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) made Oct 20 at 2022 12:44 PM

1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:44:08 -0400

Retire as an E7 in three years and start a new career! The old saying about a Bird in Hand fits well in this scenario. Life is fragile and nobody can guarantee they will be around to celebrate their 60th birthday. At 38, you can start and complete a new career and retire with whatever benefits you receive for the 22 years of work! You don't need to run the math... Just use the DIMS Factor (Does It Make Sense). The new career salary plus your retirement check should keep you loaded up with fine wine and great cigars! LOL

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Oct 20 at 2022 7:58 PM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Thu, 20 Oct 2022 19:58:26 -0400

I would stay on track for the 20 Year active retirement course. If the math serves me right, you need 4.5 years to go for the 20. Then you start collecting retirement immediately which is about 50% of your basic pay. At the age of 38 means you will have to wait 22 years to collect retirement from the reserves. Remember on reserve status your paid by a point system and making CWO3 will not come close to active duty retired pay. Being a SSG right now you have room for SFC or MSG. But the overall choice is yours that fits your agenda the best Best of luck on your decision.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Oct 22 at 2022 9:51 AM

GySgt William Hardy — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:51:46 -0400

There are things to consider. If you take the 20 years and run, you should be young enough to complete another career before retiring. For example, I retired from the Army National Guard with 13 years active and 13 years reserve status. I was also able to teach for 25 years plus my state gave me 5 years credit for active military service. When I retired at 62, I collected my military and teaching retirement plus my Social Security. I live very comfortably in my "Golden Years."

Col Cudworth used the word "math" , , , that is the key. Do your math with someone who knows the ins and outs. When I decided to take early retirement from Social Security, I got with my local SS Agent who went over the math. In my case, it paid me more to retire early. My check was smaller by a bit, but extending the math out to the average lifespan of a male, I would draw more from SS in the long run than I would waiting 10 years and drawing a larger check for the short run. It was nice that for a few years I was drawing half of my SS and still working full-time plus drawing my military retirement all at the same time. Also, I know of many people who decided to stay for the long haul only to die before they could collect.

One thing the military taught me was the 6 Ps. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Take the Colonel's advice and do the math for your particular case and brain storm to consider all the aspects.

Good Luck!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2022 5:00 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 17:00:05 -0400

SSG Ryan You are at a similar point where people are when deciding to collect Social Security at 62 - FRA or 70. They keep dangling the carrot and see who bites! Col. Cudworth spelled out the $$$ facts, assumptions and what ifs!

From my personal Career right after the 1st Gulf they pushed a Riff and offered anyone with 15+ 3 choices: 1. Stay in and pray you get promoted to CW-3 or face forced out with nothing. Many of my flight school buds took this chance - unfortunately they didn't get W-3 as the Army decided only advanced aircraft pilots were worthy - So bye - bye with nothing but memories! 2. Lump sum buyout and no further benefits period. The problem with this one was Taxes. The Fed & depending upon your state ate close to 45% thus leaving most with 6 months or less to live off while frantically searching for work. (Remember - Due to the Riff you're now competing with everyone else for those lucrative Fed jobs and or Civ gigs) or 3. An early retirement at reduced % with full benefits for life. I chose door #3 and have never regretted it! Hope this helps.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2022 12:37 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 00:37:32 -0400

SSG -

IF I MAY....your choice, although inclusive of your payday activity options, they should not hold a monopoly on the "why" you choose either path. As a WARRANT you WILL impact multiple formations especially as a 920. Transitioning to Warrant Officer aka "Chief" is a change in lifestyle, regardless of TPU or AGR status. If you are simply looking at the $$ I recommend sticking with E7. Why? Nothing is guaranteed so get your money while you have the opportunity to do so. But if you are interested in changing lives first (& dollars afterwards) join our ranks and become the quiet professional uncle sam needs you to be. If you have further questions about living the "CHIEF LIFE," REACH out to me (AGR 948B) lance.m.henderson. Here to support....

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2022 7:46 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:46:10 -0500

I am not going to go the route of the financial numbers, I agree with COL Cudworth, stay the course, retire as AGR and take the money right away. You may even surprise yourself and get promoted again. I recommend staying AGR and taking the full-time retirement. I know someone that turned down a promotion to COL, so he could stay on tour and get enough AFS to retire as an LTC. So, he gets a full-time LTC retirement now instead of COL retirement at 60.

Response by SFC Fernando Campos made Nov 29 at 2022 9:09 PM

SFC Fernando Campos — Tue, 29 Nov 2022 21:09:21 -0500

It's a matter of whether you want the most money, or how you will feel about yourself with what you've done with your life. When I got out, back some 24+ years ago, an E7 barely made some 36k a year, and that included jump pay. Today, and E7, averages 68k - back in my time, when you retired, you would have received half of your base pay, if my math serves me right, today, that's $2870 per month. You're 38, you have 22 years before hitting 60, so that's 264 months, 264x2870 = 757680. You have to decide what you will earn as a Chief for the 22 years until 60, and what you will make at retirement, and guess, only guess how long you might live and figure out the difference. Hope this makes sense. I don't have all the details. I had to do similar math equations for my civilian life at least twice now, and for me it has been my best choice to decide on what was best for me and my family and how I would feel about myself in the future. In both instances, different decisions were best, stay longer, and get out early. So choose wisely.

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Dec 1 at 2022 12:18 PM

SFC Terry Bryant — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:18:15 -0500

Actually that is not exactly true. Any title 10 and 32 points count towards your active duty retirement. If you already have 15.5 years you only need to do another 4.5 years of title 10 or 32 AD service to reach a 20 year retirement. Do some DC tours or even get on some deployment tours to finish out your 20 as a WO. AD retirement as a W-3 with over 25 years is quite significant and much better than an E7 with 20. Think the long game and remember it will go by very quickly. You could even get some of those 1 year title 32 orders. Those ALL count towards AD retirement.

Response by SFC Winora Hoyle (Retired) made Dec 1 at 2022 2:20 PM

SFC Winora Hoyle (Retired) — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 14:20:27 -0500

I say retire as a W3 (Reservist) Your status as an Warrant Office and retiring as a W3 money wise is great. I retired last year 2021 as an E7 with 37yrs of service; 8yrs Active Duty, 2yrs National Guard, and 27yrs Reservist. I was at Retirement age 60, and I walked with Retirement Pay in pocket. Go as long as you can go, and do what you do Soldier.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Dec 2 at 2022 6:31 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 18:31:28 -0500

Retire as soon as possible then get a civilian job and then retire again and then collect social security. Me, This is what I did. OR, Go to the reserves and hope you live long enough to collect retirement.

Response by SFC Philip Ogden made Jan 2 at 2023 8:10 PM

SFC Philip Ogden — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 20:10:46 -0500

Retire as a E-7. Than wait till 60. U'll have the money to make it on the outside. Plus putting cash aside till you retire at 60-65.

Response by Sgt Ed Bowers made Jan 3 at 2023 10:37 AM

Sgt Ed Bowers — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 10:37:34 -0500

For me it's a simple answer. Select the path that puts the most money in you wallet when you retire. Those numbers should be readily available to you. Good luck and thanks for your service. Semper Fi!

Response by SFC Steven Powell made Jan 25 at 2023 9:40 PM

SFC Steven Powell — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:40:00 -0500

Take the SFC retirement. Life has no guarantees for the future.

Response by Cpl Joseph Dowdy made Jan 26 at 2023 11:44 AM

Cpl Joseph Dowdy — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 11:44:23 -0500

Retire sooner. You'll always have your small retirement check coming in the mail way before 60. It might be a bigger check for W3 but you won't see it for way too long. Having that retirement now can mean the difference between surviving a recession or economic depression and not surviving.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2023 5:17 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 17:17:40 -0500

As a W3 currently on the Guard side it's much better to retire AGR with your enlisted rank than it is to try and go warrant at this point in your life. If I had the choice that's what I would do because you get guaranteed money at 20 years.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2023 8:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jan 2023 20:53:00 -0500

It depends on what your long term goals in life are, there is certainly many perks to going to Warrant Officer especially at your young age . Keep in mind that all your points that you earned on AD will used to calculate your actual pension amount if you are under the legacy system still of 2.5% per year or if you were able to switch to the blended retirement of 2% per year. The perks of being a PT SM are that you still earn income and points while still gaining rank. If you look at the base pay of a CW3 at 30 years of service which I suspect you would have at time you actually retire you might be impressed on that amount vs the 20 years at E-7. But there is some cons also if you stay, as you are subject to deployments just like any other SM. So think everything out before you decide as there is many pros and cons. There is no one that will judge you for making the decision to stay or retire. As it your life and you have already served this nation with honor.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jan 28 at 2023 6:33 AM

SGT Erick Holmes — Sat, 28 Jan 2023 06:33:10 -0500

Take the WO1 promotion. Remember 38 you have at least 4 more enlistments to go before you retire. You earned your rank. As a former national guardsman, I never thought I would do state active duty for 3 plus years. So things can change. I understand you have to look out for yourself and your family. By the sounds of it, you have worked hard to be where you've been at today. To me why go back down when you have the opportunity to be one of the coolest Warrant Officers in your unit. Again choose what will work for you but me personally I would choose the WO1 and work your way to an AGR position.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Jan 29 at 2023 2:55 AM

MSgt Earl King — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 02:55:09 -0500

1 bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, I retired and started a 2nd life, being a Marine, you aren't retired till you reach 30 years {FLMCR}, best move I ever made, all my military pay amounts to a lot., and half of it is free of all taxes.

Response by Sgt Stu Kopelman made Jan 29 at 2023 1:39 PM

Sgt Stu Kopelman — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 13:39:39 -0500

Well, considering we may be on track for a Nuclear War, be happy for a "few days" while you can get them. No one knows their last day. I retired ten years early and I am glad I did. I learned to expect the unexpected. When we don't, we find ourselves less able to cope when things come at us suddenly. Spend some hard-earned time with your family. They need you more than money.

Response by SFC Marcia Smith made Jan 30 at 2023 10:47 AM

SFC Marcia Smith — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:47:18 -0500

Retire for FAS as an E7. You can get a lot of benefits right away and young enough for another career. Remember enough money to help your household.

Response by PO3 Paul Roth made Jan 31 at 2023 1:22 PM

PO3 Paul Roth — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 13:22:47 -0500

The biggest thing I tell people that tell me about enlisting. Is if you don’t retire go to the reserves component so you get your retirement. I would take the commission and look at it as a retirement fund. You could find a civil service job that will give you time for service and will be able to pull double retirement at 60. This is me speaking from experience not listening to my Father a retired SM

Response by SSG Donald Kuhns made Mar 13 at 2023 2:41 PM

SSG Donald Kuhns — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:41:06 -0400

To tell you the truth, I left active duty and soon after joined the National Guard. I regret that choice every day of my life since. My family and myself would have been better off if I had ridden out the last roughly 4 years to active retirement I had left to go. Not only did I have to wait for my military retirement but the civilian world is a whole different animal. I was fortunate to have a number of great careers, that paid well. Notice I said a number of great careers. There is no loyalty and often poor ethics in the civilian world. Pensions where still alive and well when I was working the civilian side but now they are few and far between. Stay in the active service until your retirement window, then you have a payday, benefits and peace of mind while you decide what your next career will be.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Mar 28 at 2023 10:27 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 22:27:35 -0400

Just thinking of the song "Take the Money and Run!" Retire now and hook yourself up with a GS Job and double dip! I did and really liked the idea that I was making almost the same pay I was making and had my retirement money too!
if you retire out after the GS job then you'll most likely be make double in retirement then trying to retire as a Warrant plus you would be making double the pay by age 60 as well that will hold you over until age 65 then "Boom" hit the Social Security.
During your GS working time put as much or your military fund into retirement plans, if you can live off your GS pay and save your military retirement or 30,000 a year for 20 years that is just 600,000. However, if you use that money in other retirement plans who knows how much you can earn, you could be adding an extra 1,000 to 2,000 a month on top of your military pay, GS pay and SS! that could be close to 7,000 to 8,000 a month, plus you'll have a large bank of funds just in case of emergencies.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2023 10:43 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 22:43:46 -0400

Looks like I’m joining the party late. I was in your shoes exactly. I was an AGR SSG who put in a packet for WO. Got accepted as a TPU guy; but as soon as I graduated from my basic course, I dropped a CAD packet. I retired 10 years later as an active duty W3…it was a hard call, as I wanted to compete for W4, but I decided my job prospects on the outside were better in my 40’s than they would be in my 50’s. I had a great Army career and I have 0 regrets.

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Mar 30 at 2023 10:28 AM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 10:28:22 -0400

ahhh no brainer!!!! Take the doe now....your still young enough to start a second career. the 10 + years your collecting will more than make up for any loss in waiting

Response by CPO Arthur Brown made Mar 30 at 2023 1:32 PM

CPO Arthur Brown — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 13:32:23 -0400

You are absolutely right about your retirement and the law could change that you might receive it until 62 or older or if you die before you can receive it you will not receive any retirement at all . I retired as E7 and have been collecting that retirement since 1989. Yes, you will receive more but as you can calculate that you will have to wait for another twenty years or more to receive your retirement. It also depends on what your goals are that you are pursuing. I am 73 and I don't regret me retiring at the age of 38. That meant I receive 22years of retirement that I enjoy along with the other money I made with my other occupations, and it was fulfilling to know I had something to fall back on if the economy or job market fell out. Hope this helps and God bless you for your service and serving our country.

Response by SFC David Hackett made Apr 1 at 2023 5:44 PM

SFC David Hackett — Sat, 01 Apr 2023 17:44:09 -0400

I was in almost the the exact same situation as you. Called up for 18 month mobilization in September 2004 as an E6. Made E7 in January 2005 and summer '05 MILPERS Message needing SR deployed NCO'S to volunteer to stay on AD to retire from AD. Was credited for 13.5 years total active federal so 6.5 to 20 and retire from AD at 49. Could have easily made E8 in reserves and had lots of points too. Long story short took the AD time and retired in 2012. At 20 years 4 months. Was credited for 713 reserve points so got 22 yrs 4 mos which gave me 55.63 % retired pay from day 1. Knew the S1 well and got a GS job 3 weeks after retiring. As GS and retired from AD you only have to work 10 years Civil Service and be age 56 to retire. November 2012-November 2022=10 years and age 59 so RETIRED AGAIN! Now barely 60 and two federal retirements and VA disability =never working again. If I stayed reserve I would be barely picking up my first "gray area" retiree check! God doesn't promise any of us a set number of days or years so take advantage of the earlier retirement and start a 2nd career while you're still young! 2 retirements is an advantage that few people ever have an opportunity to achieve. Retiring as an E7 has no shame whatsoever. Look at it this way=if you're 95 years old on the first of whatever month what's going to happen?!
YOU'RE GETTING YOUR MILITARY RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY! In other words get it as soon as possible and retire as enlisted.

Response by CW4 Dan Cady made May 4 at 2023 10:35 PM

CW4 Dan Cady — Thu, 04 May 2023 22:35:07 -0400

I did 31 with 6+ years active and 25 reserve. Retired at 58 yrs old as a W4. Could have done 4 more yrs with the 2 yr WO waiver. Check your point total since that is where it gets interesting. Your 38 and 3 yrs later you make W2, then 6 yrs W3. Now you are 47 or 48. 6 yrs later you make W4 at 53. That is if the system is the same as it was in 2005. WO is the absolute best rank in the military bar none! Nothing better so go for it! I may be bias!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2023 10:27 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 May 2023 10:27:36 -0400

If you could get a job as a civil service or decent paying job outside of the federal gov’t, take your retirement now pay and benefits now. Either way you still find a civilian job as a reservist if you go
That route. 22 more years in the reserves is long.That is what I would do. Good luck.

Response by COL Dan Ruder made May 6 at 2023 3:39 PM

COL Dan Ruder — Sat, 06 May 2023 15:39:26 -0400

The comments from others to this question are very well done and the analysis reflects educated assessments. Like hearing from actual financial counselors who care about answering the Soldier’s question. Well done.

Response by SSG James Harlow made May 7 at 2023 10:26 AM

SSG James Harlow — Sun, 07 May 2023 10:26:49 -0400

I’m not going to do all the calculations. TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2023 5:03 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 May 2023 17:03:59 -0400

If it were me, I would try the E-8 AGR board , or even shoot for E-9. I would also look at do you really want tp stay on aftet 20 years. But if you are looking at doing something else collect the active 20 year check in 2 1/2 years because that’s about 20 years of retirement checks you will never make up aftet 60.

Response by SGT Paul Russo made May 10 at 2023 3:30 PM

SGT Paul Russo — Wed, 10 May 2023 15:30:34 -0400

I see I'm coming to the party late , but yeah you got you got the ball in hand , for gosh sakes do not pass or punt run with that sucker all the way home " stay with your E-7 Grade" , Tomm is promised to none of us . Peace Out

Response by MAJ John Eckholm made May 11 at 2023 12:35 PM

MAJ John Eckholm — Thu, 11 May 2023 12:35:26 -0400

Who do plan on working for? If you plan on working for the Federal government retiring as a WO3 could be very beneficial if you buy back your AD time towards your Federal civilian retirement. That would allow you to double dip those AD years. If you work to age 62 you would have your reserve retirement as an WO3 with around 18-19 years of active duty points, 40-45% of the WO3 pay scale from when you are 57,58,59 plus 39 years of civilian retirement, (24 yrs civilian & 15.5 military).