Should Lt. Clint Lorance be pardoned, released from Leavenworth and the charges dropped for following a lawful order?

SFC Jim Ruether — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:11:51 -0500

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 6:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:15:29 -0500

You would think since people with two done worse are getting out soon. Maybe PFC Manning will come out of jail and like many before her with substance abuse problems she won't live for long as soon as she goes on a fentanyl overdose. Good riddance

Response by SFC George Smith made Jan 24 at 2017 6:17 PM

SFC George Smith — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:17:57 -0500

Considering Who was pardoned and the situations BHO should Have pardoned Many more Who Did Far Less...

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jan 24 at 2017 6:17 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:17:58 -0500

He's been in prison in Leavenworth for 908 days and counting? Where was his pardon when Obama was commuting Brad/Chelsea Mannings conviction for being a traitor? Where was the compassion and fairness when a convicted traitor rates higher than a hero soldier just following his orders to protect his soldiers?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 6:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:19:12 -0500

could you include the story?

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 6:29 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:29:52 -0500

For those who are curious Clint Lorance ordered his men to open fire on a trio of men on a motorcycle who were coming towards his checkpoint. A court martial declared that the men were not enemy combatants and he was charged with second degree murder.

There is some controversy as its speculated his men only testified against him because they were granted immunity. There is also some talk about the prosecution withholding evidence but I haven't been able to find relevant articles about specifics.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 6:43 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 18:43:55 -0500

What lawful order was the LT following when he ordered his men to engage people that were moving back to their motorcycle?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 12:19 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 00:19:11 -0500

You never know, an appeal could be made to the President to have him pardoned.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Jan 25 at 2017 6:59 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 06:59:39 -0500

I would have to defer to the Courts Martial panel. We are a nation of laws; they saw the evidence and made their decision. The disposition of other cases has no bearing on this case - if the young Soldier was wrong, he was wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 8:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 08:58:42 -0500

He was made an example of because the news that came out about the incident made the administration look bad (as if it needed help with that).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 10:12 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:12:21 -0500

The previous POTUS and elements in his party don't care about straight white males defending our country.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Jan 25 at 2017 11:13 AM

SFC J Fullerton — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:13:10 -0500

No. At least not yet. The defense may have a good case for appeal and re-trial if there is in fact evidence that was withheld by the prosecution in the original trial.

Response by SPC Todd Fitzgerald made Jan 25 at 2017 6:58 PM

SPC Todd Fitzgerald — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 18:58:57 -0500

Alright, first of all, it wasn't a lawful order. Second of all, when you say "I had heard...", it holds no weight whatsoever and your opinion is largely irrelevant to the facts. The motorcycle was not speeding towards us, nor was it even driving in our direction, when Clint had the men murdered. They were local villager elders that we had been working with for some months. He harassed, threatened, and murdered them without justification and then worked to attempt to cover up his crimes by lying and trying to order others to send up false reports. They had actually come up to our base to complain about being shot at the day before (under orders from Lorance) when he threatened to kill them and they then left to go back to their village, which was right before we stepped out on the patrol where he ordered a gun truck to engage them AFTER they had stopped and got off their bikes. So before you make unfounded comments and tell fabricated narratives to defend a guy convicted of SEVERAL crimes including murder, maybe you should consider the weight of those of us who did the right thing. Twenty two witnesses, nine from the ground, myself included, and I was never threatened or granted immunity as the shitbag lawyer representing him is claiming. Just to show that I'm not making this shit up, here is the fifth in of a series of articles that were written by the local paper (Fayetteville Observer) during and after the court martial proceedings and from inside the courtroom.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-lieutenant-sentenced-to-20-years-for-afghan-killings-1.233529

Army lieutenant sentenced to 20 years for Afghan killings

A 10-member jury of military officers convicted 1st Lt. Clint Lorance on two counts of murder and other charges related to a pattern of threatening and intimidating actions toward Afghans as commander of an infantry platoon.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 7:04 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:04:25 -0500

From the article:
His own soldiers, however, paint a much different picture: They claim their platoon leader was ignorant, overzealous and out of control. That he hated the Afghan people and that he had spent recent days tormenting the locals and issuing death threats.
Lorance had a setback on Dec. 31, when the commander of the 82nd Airborne Division reduced Lorance's his sentence — but just by one year — and upheld the guilty verdict, effectively sending the case to the U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals.
"Maj. Gen. Richard Clarke carefully reviewed the facts of US v. Lorance, to include the clemency requests submitted in August, October, November and December 2014," said Maj. Crystal Boring, a spokeswoman for the XVIII Airborne Corps, in a statement. "After an in-depth study of the case, he upheld the guilty verdict from the court martial panel and directed one year off the original sentence of 20 years confinement due to post-trial delay."

So his own troops thought he was an ignorant asshole out for blood; a court marital panel considered all the evidence and found him guilty of murder; and the commander of the 82d abn division reviewed all the evidence and agreed. So why exactly would anyone be on the side of letting this murderer go, much less calling him a hero? The fact is that some people commit crimes in wartime; we lose all our values if we take the position that any American who kills any civilian is automatically cleared because war.

Response by SPC Todd Fitzgerald made Jan 25 at 2017 7:09 PM

SPC Todd Fitzgerald — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:09:56 -0500

Also, here is his own lawyer admitting that he hid evidence.
("After the shooting, Lorance tried to hide evidence that the two dead Afghans were carrying proper identity, something the Taliban rarely do. "He told his soldiers to forget they saw the IDs. That was wrong," said Womack.")
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-murder-idUSBRE97115V20130802

Note: All my sources are dated from the trial, as they are direct sources and not second hand, or worse, from the attorney and family representing a criminal. I myself was there personally, testified, and was quoted by the Army Times and New York Times. No other media organizations have reached out for our side. Fox News is presenting a false narrative and should be embarrassed for their lack of integrity and research, these articles can easily be found by searching chronologically.

U.S. soldier convicted of murdering two Afghans is 'scapegoat:' lawyer

An army lieutenant found guilty of murdering two Afghan civilians was being used as a "scapegoat" by the U.S. Army, his lawyer said on Friday, predicting that the officer's conviction and a 20-year sentence would be overturned on appeal.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jan 25 at 2017 7:24 PM

MSG Jay Jackson — Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:24:16 -0500

Please do tell me that his commander was a stand up guy and did not throw this guy under the bus. I say pardon this soldier by Friday. And put Manning on the street by Friday also. He needs to be getting ready for the Super Bowl. He is the brother of Eli and Payton right?;)