Should medically retired get the same certificate as those that did 20+?

2015-02-05T19:31:57-05:00

Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?

I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition.
Unfortunately people were so passionate about the subject that they failed to realize that I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement.
In short I was merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate. However the onslaught of down votes has only re-enforced the fact that voicing your opinion on social media is the fastest way to create a riot despite the failure of the intended targets ability to translate its content.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Feb 5 at 2015 8:21 PM

2015-02-05T20:21:34-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I did 18.5 years and was blown up on my 2nd tour. I spent months in the hospital and endured a dozen surgeries and 2 years in the WTB, BEGGING to remain on active duty. I still live in chronic pain and despite being 100% disabled and Purple Hearted I apologize for tarnishing your "Retired" piece of paper. If you send me your address, I will mail it directly to you so that you can piss all over it if that will make you feel better. Please forgive me. God bless you my brother.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 5 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-02-05T20:33:11-05:00

Retirement is not about longevity.

It is about being moved from the Active roster to the Inactive roster.

Some people are moved because of Longevity, such as yourself SFC Private RallyPoint Member, while others are moved because they are no longer Medically qualified to remain on the roster.

When someone is no longer Medically qualified, because of something Service Related, it is far more appropriate to Retire them than to Discharge them.

Discharging, implies a cutting of ties. It is a RELEASE from service. Retiring is something else entirely.

Response by PO2 Christopher Morehouse made Feb 5 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-02-05T20:44:50-05:00

I'm reminded of the saying that is thrown around on Memorial Day: "All gave some, some gave all." I would place someone who retired after 20+ in the "gave some" category despite their great length of service. But, I would put someone medically retired, especially those with a high disability rating, just a couple steps down from the "gave all" category. To me, that warrants at the very least a piece of paper.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Feb 5 at 2015 8:59 PM

2015-02-05T20:59:05-05:00

As a 1SG in 1-36 Infantry, I remember hauling ass - carrying one of my guys to the medics during a major mortar attack, his leg barely attached.....I also remember offering the same Soldier (a Specialist) a retirement ceremony once we had finished our deployment and returned home.....just a difference of opinion, which is another example of what makes our service and our country so great!

Response by SSG Michael O'Malley made Feb 5 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-02-05T21:01:06-05:00

SFC,
I am one of these "unexceptable" retired soldiers who just like you have had a Screaming Eagle on my shoulder. Because I chose to serve this great nation in a country that was not my own helping my brothers and sisters who were hurt or injured I too became injured. Now who is to say that if I had not gotten hurt I would not have done my "required" 20+ ? As far as the military is concerned there is no such thing as a medical retirement. You either are retired or your not.

Response by SSG John Bacon made Feb 5 at 2015 9:05 PM

2015-02-05T21:05:38-05:00

Your Damn Skippy we should. I did 12 years of total service not including 10 years of Law enforcement in between. I am a member of two branches of the Military with 4 combat tours 3 to Iraq 1 to Saudi. I have broken my body for my country it was not my decision to be medically Retired but it was necessary. If I could I would re-enlist today. But instead I am still serving my country as a Contractor and still working side by side with my brothers and sisters.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 5 at 2015 9:12 PM

2015-02-05T21:12:50-05:00

Omg. I'm trying so hard to restrain myself. SFC Mark Merino tell me not to do it!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 5 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-02-05T21:22:43-05:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Carpenter

Should this guy not get a Retired Certificate?

Kyle Carpenter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William Kyle Carpenter (born October 17, 1989), also known as Kyle Carpenter, is a medically retired United States Marine who received the United States' highest military honor, the Medal of Honor, for his actions in Marjah, Helmand Province, Afghanistan in 2011. Carpenter is the youngest living Medal of Honor recipient.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 9:30 PM

2015-02-05T21:30:23-05:00

I understand that someone who spent 20+ years might not want to be lumped in with someone who spent less than 20 years and was medically retired.

However, does it really matter? You get your benefits. They get theirs. It really isn't like these people who are getting medically retired are seeking this kind of separation on purpose.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Feb 5 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-02-05T21:32:38-05:00

BTW, if that is your retirement certificate, congratulations.

Response by PV2 Daniel Shipley made Feb 5 at 2015 9:43 PM

2015-02-05T21:43:18-05:00

yes!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-02-05T21:46:54-05:00

I having served 23 but it was broken service, does that mean that since I got out for a while for a family emergency should be downgraded since my service was not 20 years in a row day for day service? This is so hurtful to even see such a statement.
First it goes to show you do not know the meaning of retirement and how that is earned in the military. It is not based on day for day and there are many reasons for that. This discussion is not trying to bring that out, this discussion is framed to say that one veteran is worth more than another veteran.

We are all Veterans of Military Service to our Country.

Under the regulations that govern the character of service and the classification of a retirement that decision is made. Benefits are decided and support is regulated according to the type, classification and period of service which is defined by Congress.

So to the nature of the question, I am left wondering if perhaps some feel they are more worthy or entitled to services and benefits being disabled than another that became disabled when they were both on active duty? What kind of a person even thinks that way in the first place? Did we not all sign the same contract that guaranteed the same benefits to each one of us upon the completion of the service as defined? Be that by a medical injury or condition or longevity are you both not entitled to get help when you need that help?

Once again is this similar to what the civilian community does to try and turn people against one another? This same kind of a stupid statement. There is no either or, they are both entitled to the benefits they have earned.

Disability is an insurance, retirement is an earned benefit. Even in the military, disability is considered one of our benefits in figuring our compensation and benefits while on active duty. This is an insurance premium the govt. says they are crediting us with the same as their co-pay for social security or survivors benefits while we are on active duty. Such a question is the type that says that some are more deserving than that of others.

A person earns their benefits. Those benefits are on the contract signed and then they are entitled to those benefits both in compensations and services. They are not something to change when the person needs those benefits the most.

Any less of an answer is not understanding the way the Govt. self insures and the meaning of that as it applies to the members. That self insure policy of the govt. as directed by congress does not mitigate the responsibility or the accountability to administrate those benefits. Not now and not in the future.

The sooner members of the military understand, our benefits are under attack by this congress, the sooner these benefits and compensations will stay in place and firm. We of all people should know, a person who is disabled during active duty has earned the full benefits and care he or she has earned.

There should be shame in just the way the question was worded. People whining and the like.... What a judgmental thing to say especially when the medical professionals must disagree with such a narrow and hateful point of view.

These are my fellow service members. I may not like all of them but never will I turn my back on any of them. We all raised our hands and said "I WILL and then DID."

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Feb 5 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-02-05T22:02:01-05:00

So you are pissed that your retirement certificate reads the same as the ones who lost more than you did and weren't able to complete 20 years? How effing selfish can you be? Do you think your better than those of us who served honorably but because of injury were not able to continue? I will make sure that when I tell people about my time in the service, I will be sure to add an asterisk.

Response by SSG Christopher Feeny made Feb 5 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-02-05T22:03:32-05:00

All you have given is time. I've given my health and my body.

Response by PO2 Devin Lamoureux made Feb 5 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-02-05T22:04:23-05:00

You don't get medically retired for a broken arm, there are medical and physical evaluation boards that determine whether one can return fit for duty, medical discharge with a severance pay or medically retired (which begins VA disability). I can say, for my PEB, it was approved by an Admiral somewhere and the board convened with a handful of medical officers that review the records, etc.

Most of the time it's a permanent injury or chronic problem that one is medically retired for.

Myself, I was medically retired for Epilepsy with 80% disability. I'm fortunate that I have all of my limbs entact and no physical ailments like many of my brothers who were in combat situations, however SFC you can suck it.

If i could, I would still be out in 7th fleet, on the ship, where I belong, working on CIWS.

Response by SSG Christopher Feeny made Feb 5 at 2015 10:05 PM

2015-02-05T22:05:44-05:00

I'd like to kick you in the teeth, with my one good leg!!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-02-05T22:15:57-05:00

I don't think it's that easy to get medically retired...I've only known a handful of people to do so and they had pretty severe issues. Some of those issues may have been genetic but more likely then not it was because of their sacrifices in the service. Yes they deserve the same retirement recognition.

Response by CW3 Eddy Vleugels made Feb 5 at 2015 10:23 PM

2015-02-05T22:23:19-05:00

It's just not a good question all together; what's the purpose for even asking? I'm disappointed that a SM would think it is OK to ask this, without thinking for one second how many of our wounded warriors he is about to offend. SFC G, I think you owe some people an apology my friend.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 10:39 PM

2015-02-05T22:39:07-05:00

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Feb 5 at 2015 10:45 PM

2015-02-05T22:45:23-05:00

Why the hell not? They were forced out to reasons beyond their control. It's not like they didn't re-enlist. In many cases, those who are medically retired may have done more to earn their retirement than those who served 20 years.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Feb 5 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-02-05T22:51:17-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, wow that's your point of view, I disagree Medical is very important and there is a reason Army Regulation 635–40 Personnel Separations Physical Evaluation for Retention, Retirement, or Separation. In my opinion, we must as Senior NCO's educate the force according to the STANDARD and knowing it, before expressing ones point of view.

1–1. Purpose
This regulation establishes the Army Physical Disability Evaluation System (PDES) according to the provisions of Title 10, United States Code (USC), Chapter 61, (10 USC 61) and DODD 1332.18. It sets forth policies, responsibilities, and procedures that apply in determining whether a Soldier is unfit because of physical disability to reasonably perform the duties of his or her office, grade, rank, or rating. If a Soldier is found unfit because of physical disability, this regulation provides for disposition of the Soldier according to applicable laws and regulations. The objectives of this regulation are to—
a. Maintain an effective and fit military organization with maximum use of available manpower.
b. Provide benefits for eligible Soldiers whose military service is terminated because of a service-connected disability.
c. Provide prompt disability processing while ensuring that the rights and interests of the Government and the Soldier are protected.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r635_40.pdf

COL Mikel J. Burroughs TSgt Joe C. SFC William Farrell PO1 William "Chip" Nagel LTC Stephen F.] SGT Robert George SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas Maj Marty Hogan MSG Andrew White SGT Private RallyPoint Member SFC Dave Beran SGT Philip Roncari SPC Margaret Higgins MSgt Jason McClish SrA Christopher Wright SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM SP5 Michael Rathbun SGT Michael Thorin

r635_40.pdf

Response by SSG Kenneth Hammes made Feb 5 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-02-05T23:01:10-05:00

As someone who reenlisted onto active duty after 9-11, I had every intention of serving until I did my 20 years. Now I am facing a medical board and medical retirement due to injuries, chronic pain, and PTSD issues. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but as others have pointed out: the military considers medical retirement the same as retirement. Perhaps some of us didn't pay into the retirement with 20 years of service, but if you're medically retired you definitely paid for that retirement in other ways.

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Feb 5 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-02-05T23:29:39-05:00

SFC Steven Grudzinski, I find the fact that this is an issue with anyone very disheartening. I don't begrudge anything anyone who has Honorably served in the U.S. Military receives. I did not spend 20+ years in the Marine Corps. l was not medically discharged. I got out after 5 years. However, I served my tour in the Republic of Vietnam. So, now I am 100% Disabled because of Agent Orange. The gift that keeps on giving. I would much rather be able to still be working than dealing with these debilitating illness that will eventually take my life. So, if that piece of paper means that much to you, maybe you should re-evaluate what is truly important in life. For me the most important thing in my life is my "Dash". When you look at someone's tombstone you see the day an individual was born and the day the person died. What do you find in between? A "Dash". That "Dash" represents their life. That is what is most important to me. How I lived my life, was a good man, was I a good father, did I raise my children and grandchildren to love God. Did I try to live a sin free life. Did I love my fellow man. Did I die without hatred for any man in my heart. To me those are the things that I want to be remembered for. Not a piece of paper that will eventually turn yellow and crumble, because it's made by man!

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 5 at 2015 11:42 PM

2015-02-05T23:42:07-05:00

I was lucky enough to get my 20 and a piece of paper stating so. I have a feeling most who have been medically retired didn't want to, they wanted to continue their service. They never asked to be retired, it was a medical decision. I think you're a little narrow minded in your thinking. If it was a faker/ slacker who's worked the system to get a medical retirement who's pissed in your soup, sorry, but don't stab those who've honorably served and were medically retired because of their service.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-02-05T23:55:52-05:00

Retired is retired. You pretty well stepped in this one...

Response by SSG Sean Garcia made Feb 6 at 2015 12:14 AM

2015-02-06T00:14:26-05:00

I don't know if your realize this, but those of us that we're "medically" retired don't receive an actual retirement check. Just the disability check for the rated percentage. You on the other hand would get both. Do I deserve to have the honor of receiving the same piece of paper as you? That is your own opinion, but I'll be damned if someone like you will make me and those like me feel less of a Soldier because you are butt hurt that I have the same retirement document as you. I feel like I earned mine, and though was found medically unfit, does not make you a better Soldier than me or anybody else that has served in any capacity.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 12:30 AM

2015-02-06T00:30:28-05:00

You serve your country for 20 years, you retire completely whole and unbroken, buy a house, spend time with your family, start a second career, earn more money and another retirement check.

They serve a few years, become injured, no longer able to perform their duties, become medically discharged, go home, live on a disability check, struggle to adapt to their new situation, may not be capable of work or at least not one they initially would want or trained for.

Yes I think they are entitled to the same retirement certificate as you. In fact, their certificate should be framed and a point of pride for them and their sacrifice. If anything, they should receive far more than they are given. They gave more than most, some gave just short of their all.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 12:59 AM

2015-02-06T00:59:06-05:00

So how about somebody that served 20+ AND got hurt/medically retired? Does that mean my piece of paper is now worth more than yours?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 3:34 AM

2015-02-06T03:34:45-05:00

I think this should change. Maybe put how many years we honorably served. To read Having Served Faithfully and Honorably for 24 years was retired from the United States Army! And this would be by no means a downgrade to others that were medically retired. We all know that we would rather still be serving rather than being medically retired way to early.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 4:20 AM

2015-02-06T04:20:42-05:00

I'm probably going to get a down vote for this. I think there should be two certificates for the 20 years in service versus the medically retired. It makes a difference. Someone who was medically retired probably didn't want to stop serving. I think their certificate should reflect how much they sacrificed for their country. Someone who has served 20 years ( someone who was lucky to surpass that magical 20 years) probably was healthy enough to do it. So I do think it's two different things. It should be differentiated in my opinion.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Feb 6 at 2015 4:49 AM

2015-02-06T04:49:27-05:00

This thread seems to be in line with the one about those with permanent profiles being paid less or something.

My wife was medically retired for permanent injuries sustained down range and I will continue to serve until retirement comes calling.

The fact that a senior NCO is even thinking this way is quite disturbing and clearly does not get the big picture. If this is the way you really feel I hate to think about how you treat Soldiers going through the process of transitioning into civilian life let alone those you may be responsible for. All I can say is I hope you never have to be one of the injured that may need to be medically retired and that you open your eyes to recognize the sacrifices of those who had.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 6:03 AM

2015-02-06T06:03:14-05:00

Apparently people failed to understand that I wasn't saying that those medically retired didn't deserve recognition, I was saying it's not the same.
Any person who volunteers to serve is already a hero in my book but some, not all, but some don't do it honorably and whine and complain and play the system for every dime of disability they can get.
Those of you out there down voting me probably know some of those people faking the funk so they get more, or you may be one of them and took it personal. Yes I have done my 20 and if I retire I will get whatever is coming to me, but it hasn't been without injuries. I just chose to ruck up and move out and continue to serve as long as I can despite them.
Many of you probably complained about people receiving Bronze Stars down range for never leaving the wire over those that went out every day and patrolled saying it's not the same and they didn't deserve it.
Yet you are down voting me because I feel that the person who joined the Army 6 months ago and destroyed their knees playing football, or falling on a training exercise never deployed and is now facing an MEB should receive the same retired title as those of you served 20+?
I can live with that. You know why? Because I am saying what many of you out there are thinking or have said in the past but are too afraid to say here because you are more concerned with down votes than being honest.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Feb 6 at 2015 6:32 AM

2015-02-06T06:32:14-05:00

We broke it, we pay for it. That's a good standard. A certificate is the least we can do. Unfortunately, there are lots of warriors who were damaged during service who don't get medically retired, carry their injuries in silence, and get ignored by the military.

Response by SSG Kyle Shelton made Feb 6 at 2015 6:33 AM

2015-02-06T06:33:10-05:00

Yeah we should. I made my E-6 in 4 years and was on the fast track until sustaining several injuries in combat (Infantry). I was a career soldier who was specifically emailed by the board with barely over 7 years in stating I had been recommended for promotion but due to my Profile I was not going to see my E-7. As I fought to get off of it they kept finding more doing MRI's and Brain Scans. Why should I be treated As if I'm less of a Soldier because my injuries only allowed me to serve 10 years and not 20? How about all the 20 year guys who never deployed or don't have a CIB or CAB? Maybe they should get a different one too??

Response by SGT Jim Barrows made Feb 6 at 2015 7:11 AM

2015-02-06T07:11:45-05:00

I'm sorry but I think you need to understand most of us didn't to be retired and I think it's wrong to assume you know what others are going through I would love the simple things back to drive a car be aloud to be alone with out a (old man sitter) as the grandchildren call it to sleep six hours without pain or dreaming about something that happened so long ago but right now it's like it's happening RI GGGGGHH HT NOW .
As with life in general walk a mile in my boots before you think you can judge

Response by MG Hugh Van Roosen made Feb 6 at 2015 7:15 AM

2015-02-06T07:15:55-05:00

I think that the vast majority of those who are medically retired would have preferred to stay serving. The question is presumably more about the observation that some people that are medically retired seem to be in pretty good shape, but that is a physician's call. Those that are medically retired may be downplaying the extent of their condition. I give these fellow service members the benefit of the doubt and am grateful for their service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-02-06T08:31:55-05:00

BLUF: HELL YES they should!

I personally feel embarrassed to call you a peer. I hope you don't feel that those who are lower ranking or have less time in the military are somehow inferior to you. Increased rank bears increased responsibility, not just increased privileges.

I'm not sure what I hate more, "leaders" who put themselves on a pedestal, or those who stand on the backs of their subordinates to make themselves somehow bigger than what they really are. We should be doing everything in our power to ensure those junior to us have the tools to be successful and can eventually take our place, not belittling them to justify our own existence.

These people "running around" sporting whatever pride they have in their military service sacrificed for their country deserve our gratitude and respect. The circumstances of their release should have no bearing on the debt their country owes them. So, kindly tell us again, why someone who has honorably served their country and could no longer do so due to severe medical problems should not rewarded with a retirement?

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-02-06T10:02:48-05:00

I don't have a dog in this here fight...but, and there is always a butt, isn't there? I say yes, their certificate should be different. It should be bigger, with a lot more gold leaf, and signed by the damn president himself. Serving 20 years and retiring sounds a lot easier than being permanently disabled...just my ever so humble opinion.

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Feb 6 at 2015 10:27 AM

2015-02-06T10:27:22-05:00

Your suggestion that there needs to be a separate certificate for those medically retired raised hackles because it implicitly assumes a superiority of the 20 year "true" retirement over a possibly "suspicious" medical retirement. No matter what your intended message, there is a hostile subtext in how your suggestion reads. Retired is retired is retired, my friend. No need for a "separate but equal" system of certificates.

Response by MCPO Katrina Hutcherson made Feb 6 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-02-06T10:31:18-05:00

Hmmmmm, I once knew an E-2 who was medically retired after stopping at the club during a parts run, getting filthy drunk and then crashing the government vehicle on the way back to the station becoming permanently injured in the fiasco. In that case I would say HELL NO!

In the case of someone who was injured in the line of duty due to no fault of their own and especially in combat I would say HELL YES!

I'm not sure why the Army certificate attached does not have years of service but mine reads that I served for over 34 years (kinda wish it said 11 years of active duty but that's no biggie). If all services noted years served that might placate those that believe only the lucky ones who make it past 20 deserve one.

See attached.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Feb 6 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-02-06T10:51:10-05:00

I understand what you are saying, you were not demeaning anyone, just showing a difference. Great thought. Thanks .

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-02-06T11:22:00-05:00

Only thing I have to say is...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-02-06T13:06:54-05:00

In the Army it called the DA 363A, Air Force DD 363AF, Navy 363N, in the Marines its DD 363M, and for Coast Guard it a DD 363CG, please correct me if I am wrong any of my CG/Navy/Marine brothers & sisters.

One of the unique thing about the forms its that nowhere on them does it distinguish between a 20yrs+ retirement or a medical retirement(either under TDRL or PDRL) or a retirement under TERA.

The AF AFI for example states: "PER AFI 36-3203, IC 10 AUG 09, MEMBERS PERMANENTLY RETIRING FOR DISABILITY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR RETIREMENT CERTIFICATES/ CONGRATULATION LETTERS REGARDLESS OF YEARS OF SERVICE." Airmen who are placed on the temporary disability retired list (TDRL) are not issued the certificate unless their status changes to a permanent retirement, either for years of service or disability.

The other service branches may have something similar. I have seen someone on the Army side on TDRL who later went to PDRL and gotten the certificate of retirement.

Not all who retire at 20+ are healthy & ready to take on another career for another retirement in the civilian sector. In my case, I did make it past 20+ and paid for it dearly. I was on the cusp of a possible medical retirement but I pushed through it knowing that I will suffer for it later. I'm not able to enjoy a 2nd career and live it up, do what I please. Well, I do what I please within my physical constraints.

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, why does it bother you so much that a certificate or recognition be different for someone medically retired for their injuries sustained in combat and those medically retired due to a"football injury" and never deployed. What about those who did deploy and upon their return found out they have a terminal illness and nowhere near their 20 yrs. It happened to a dear friend of mine. Should I call his wife and tell her that certificate that hangs on her wall doesn't mean crap to my cert because I got my 20?? I ran into a buddy of mine at the VA last month, big scar on the right side of his head courtesy of an IED, not only fractured his skull but some of it had to be replaced by cadaver bone. I'll be sure to tell him his retirement cert doesn't mean squat either.

Bronze Stars, yes SFC Private RallyPoint Member, some got them because their ass never left the FOB compared to those who left the wire each and everyday. Thing is IDGAF why or why not they got them. If they got it because they sat on their behind, it's on their conscience not mine. If those that went out the wire didn't get theirs, then it's their piss poor leadership who failed to fight for them. What does irk me is the BS rules leadership comes up with "only E7 and O-3 and above get BS everyone below gets ARCOMs/AAMs" just an example. Guess no one read the reg, because nowhere in the reg states this BS made-up criteria.

You know most people here will see the one deployment I have listed. I won't list the other one, it's one that I have tried to bury so far deep for the last 11 years that no matter what I do I have constant reminders of that time frame and the BS that went on afterwards. I have enough time on my 20+ yrs I can deduct that time frame out of my life. But at no time will ever tell anyone their time didn't count or less meaningful than mine.

It's 1700 somewhere in the world, I'm done with this, I got nothing else to say.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-02-06T19:11:20-05:00

It is a shame I can't find any General's from my service that have a meme worth posting - oh, that's right, my General's forgot they were Soldier's first and now think they are politicians (which they are).

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 6 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-02-06T19:13:03-05:00

SFC Steven Grudzinski, although I do not have a dog in this fight what about all the retirees that took the Early Retirement Plan (ERP) in the 90s do they deserve a different certificate then you with you beloved 20 years? I do believe that there needs to be separate certificates because retired is retired is retired and oh by the way it would be another poor admin clerk making a mistake and giving out the "wrong" certificate.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 7:17 PM

2015-02-06T19:17:25-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member,

If I end up medically retired (a very strong possibility), I won't care one whit if my certificate says Medically Retired instead of Retired. The Army is all about segregating and specifying things, like when my clothing record has "Socks, OD Green" on a separate line from "Socks, Black"... it's just stating the facts. In my mind, it's logical for the medically retired to have a certificate that states as much.

Still, you seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with your question. I think you somehow tapped into people's emotions with this one. Good luck weathering the storm and don't worry, someone will eventually post something that draws their ire more. ;)

Response by TSgt Manuel Perez made Feb 6 at 2015 7:58 PM

2015-02-06T19:58:05-05:00

No, they should recieve Disabled American Veteran certificate now if more than 15, that is different question.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 10:27 PM

2015-02-06T22:27:55-05:00

I usually try to refrain from bashing service members over posts. But this has even got me spun up. I could see a junior service member asking this but not a senior NCO.

I'm in the same boat with SFC Mark Merino in hoping SFC Grudzinski just had a bad day or maybe someone rubbed him wrong.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-02-06T22:33:27-05:00

HELL THE EFF YES...we all pay a price, some of us it is bad knees, or a bad back. Loss of hearing, PTSD, failed marriages, drugs, alcoholism, yet some of us triumph over all the evils of the world and go onto do great things.

We all pay, some pay all the way, some pay a little, some pay a lot.

If you earned your retirement doing your job, you deserve to be HELLA proud.

If you did 4 years and never left Alabama (there is surely a base there, right?) you should be proud just as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-02-06T22:38:12-05:00

I think "most" should, people who have dedicated their life to the Army but are unable to continue should definately get the same recognition. Barring their injury they may have continued their military service. There are a few who abuse the system but we can't punish those that are really unable to continue for those that had a good plan to abuse the system. Besides the Certificate doesn't say anything other than they retired after serving faithfully and honorably

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Feb 6 at 2015 11:15 PM

2015-02-06T23:15:56-05:00

Most definitely YES they should! Service is Service. To differentiate in the type of retirement discharge certificate is to suggest a difference in merit.

Response by SGT Scott Bailey made Feb 7 at 2015 12:10 AM

2015-02-07T00:10:10-05:00

I'm medically retired. I was injured in the line of duty and have subsequently undergone surgery 26 times over 32 years. Something people never seem to think about is, we, or I, will never be able to obtain a real financially stable life and the 8 years I put in wont help me toward a regular retirement. I wanted to stay in. The Army was my life. But after trying everything I could to stay in, I received orders from Department of the Army that stated "there will be no more delays. You will proceed to the physical evaluation board on the date indicated". Well, in the 70s and 80's if you couldn't pass a PT test, you were out. I lost the use of my left leg when it was severed, then reattached. I would go back in right now if I could. I tried to sue my civilian doctor to lift some restrictions so I could work. But my lawyers advising doctor said he agreed with my doctor. So, here I am. Never able to get a retirement from any job. Where would I be without the Army? Our ability to have a productive life was given up for our Country. I agree, a lot abuse the system. But just like food stamps, kids would go hungry if the program was stopped because of a few bad apples. I will never be able to work to retirement and that is a HUGE loss for me. This is my story, thank you for trying to understand.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 1:14 AM

2015-02-07T01:14:20-05:00

A retirement is a retirement, shouldn't matter the number of years served. Should there be a different certificate for someone that serves MORE than the "required" 20 years?

Response by SGT Aaron Olivas made Feb 7 at 2015 4:15 AM

2015-02-07T04:15:25-05:00

Fun Fact of the Day I was Retired on the Same Day as this Photo.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 6:02 AM

2015-02-07T06:02:31-05:00

SFC Grudzinski,

One of the first things I learned as a young NCO is; It's not what you say, but how you say it. I noticed you went back and edited your original post. To be honest, I'm not sure you have picked up on what everyone is trying to tell you. You seem to think that it's everyone else fault for misinterpreting your message. Your original message was also self centered, and condescending to those who may not be able to contribute to society in the same ways they could before.

I only wish for you to know that our careers in the Military have nothing to do with us. It's about our service to this great nation and the people at our sides. If, somehow, we can reap a reward, or receive some compensation along the way it is ok. But, the Army was here before us, and it will be here (God Willing) long after we are gone.

I get the idea from reading your posts, that your 20+ career and upcoming retirement, is somehow impacted by those who have somehow sacrificed differently then you. I hate to break it to you, but we all sacrifice in different ways. Some people give more than others, and some take advantage of the system. But you know what? If you can go home with a clear conscience, and a belief you gave everything you could, then why stress about other people, and what they deserve over what you deserve?

I know my rant here means nothing, but then again, oh well... May God Bless you and your family, and may we just realize that we are here for each other, not against each other.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Feb 7 at 2015 8:32 AM

2015-02-07T08:32:16-05:00

i'm gonna bet with all those down votes, it wasn't them not reading it right, it was you not writing it right. This top in itself has a definite troll quality to it, I just don't understand why you would want to alienate that large a population of posters.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 9:58 AM

2015-02-07T09:58:27-05:00

I have read a lot of responses that SFC Grudzinski has received. I will say this.... everyone is entitled to their opinion in person or on social media. The other thing I think needs to be said is that people don't really want "you" to have an opinion they simply want you to agree with theirs! With all of that being said, a retirement certificate that says you served 1 yr or 20+ years is still a retirement certificate in my opinion and should be respected. My wife is retired and i just asked her thoughts and she said the E4 who was blown up during the war did more in 4 years than she did in 20.5 years. I don't think the wording on the certificate should be different but if the DOD decided to change it I don't think those who have been medically retired should feel disrespected in any way.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Feb 7 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-02-07T11:00:25-05:00

Why not??? Using that mindset -----should Service members with 20 years get the same retirement certificate as one that provided 30 years?

Should a Soldier that performed 20 years of AFS be it in Regular or Reserve (AGR) ar Reserve Service (retirement at age 60) not get the same certificate. In the Army AGR Soldiers perform many of the "hard" jobs in the Army and recognition is recognition. Normally AGRs do all of the tough things that have to be done while the regulars do "their own" thing.

Please understand that the paper certificate signed by "whomever" will not make any difference in pay or benefits that the Service Member will receive.

V/r,
Charles T. Dalbec
LTC, AUS, Retired

Response by SSG John Bacon made Feb 7 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-02-07T11:54:55-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member SFC, I understand what your saying but when it comes to social media there is no inflection, only words. You have to type what you mean to say if you want anyone to understand what your trying to convey. The original question its self "Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?" It does sound derogatory, like Medical Retirement is less honorable.
You could have typed more like, Should the Military distinguish between a Medical Retirement Certificate and a 20+ year Retirement Certificate? Same Question just less fuel for the fire.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-02-07T14:31:05-05:00

Every case is different. I believe that they should get a Retirement Certificate. SFC Private RallyPoint Member

The problem with the whole Military Medical system is that it is hard to tell sometimes who is riding the system and those who are truly in dire need. Those that are not clog the system for Soldiers who require attention.

There are also Doctors who make decisions based on personal beliefs instead of actual medical facts and findings. I had one try to prevent my deployment and as me why I wanted to go.

As SFC Mark Merino stated he was trying his best to get at least 20 years.
Unfortunately there are many more who could be just trying to get a paycheck and it is too hard to discern the difference.

We must respect the fact that we are all together in this and have earned what we get regardless of the circumstances.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Feb 7 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-02-07T14:57:50-05:00

As a 20 year retiree, I am honored to invite those who sacrificed more than me, received more injuries, and suffer currently from past service into the ranks of the "nearly geriatric".

Response by SFC Royce Williams made Feb 7 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-02-07T15:10:51-05:00

I am like SFC Mark Merino. I spent 17 years bot blown up on my second tour. I fought to stay in me las few years even had two Major Generals write letters trying to get the DA to let me stay. I was told no an sent packing with 90% dissability. I don't give a damn what some certificate says I earned every thing I have and still have the same blue ID card and bennefits that I would have at 20 yrs

Response by SGT Orazio Castellana made Feb 7 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-02-07T15:16:51-05:00

I say yes! Some of us could not control the reasons why we did not complete our obligations/career like we would of like to.

Response by SSG Sean Knudsen made Feb 7 at 2015 3:56 PM

2015-02-07T15:56:40-05:00

The obvious answer is YES, both should receive the same certificate.The obvious question is why segregate the two? Moreover, what would be of such importance to alienate those that are medically retired from service from those that made it to 20?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-02-07T17:05:22-05:00

Why is this even a question?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-02-07T17:08:50-05:00

I served 19 years, 10 months and was medically retired.. So what are you asking?

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 7 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-02-07T18:29:16-05:00

nope...I'm both...over 20 and medically retired....only if u do 20

Response by TSgt David Holman made Feb 7 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-02-07T20:27:52-05:00

Short answer... absolutely. People who are medically retired had the same obligations, made the same sacrifices, they shouldn't be "different" because they were injured/ill. Trust me, I can guarantee that those who are medically retired would have much rather served the full 20 than live with the pain that they go through day to day...

Response by SFC Joey Jimenez made Feb 7 at 2015 10:09 PM

2015-02-07T22:09:28-05:00

After 24 years, 7 months and 12 days I was medically retired. Pushed too hard, too long and pushed through my disablities as long as I could. I was too stubborn to quit!

Response by MSgt Timothy Johnson made Feb 7 at 2015 11:20 PM

2015-02-07T23:20:57-05:00

I immediately said to myself YES they should have a slightly different one. For the most part they are medically retired for an honorable reason beyond their control. Combat injuries and safety mishaps. Chemical contamination etc. Their certificate should have a small purple heart if earned for the injury requiring retirement. For other reasons maybe just have a red cross or a red heart somewhere on the form. I am sure it will take quit some time to have this issue run its course. Maybe the top line "certificate of retirement" can be in blue or some other appropriate color. Then again this should be asked to the honorable service members currently in this situation. Some may feel it is just another reminder of the actions that led to the retirement.
MY reasoning is that those who early retire for the above reasons have, I feel, made more of a sacrifice then I did making it to 22 years and no serious injuries. I look at it as an honor or a sacrifice beyond others. Like I said it needs to be asked to the ones who count.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 2:04 AM

2015-02-08T02:04:22-05:00

Absolutely. If their time is service is cut short due to medical related problems they received while service, then they should receive the same recognition as those who retire at 20 or more years. If you look at the line under their name "Having served faithfully and honorably", that says it all.

Now, I know there are SM that will skate the system and use every medical reason they can to their benefit, but I think it would be hard to distinguish between them and I don't think we should take away from those legitimately with medical problems.

Just my two cents!

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 8:28 AM

2015-02-08T08:28:58-05:00

I apologize in advance if this seems brash, but your post before your edit was quite and crystal clear. You firmly exuded that you did not believe a medical retirement under 20 years merited the same recognition as those who conpleted all 20.

You cannot honestly back pedal now and push the blame onto others for their "apparent" lack of understanding of your original intent. It is not their fault for the negative responses. That falls on you.

If you were truly trying to convey positive support for equal recognition for those who medically retire, the clear communication in your post was seriously lacking.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-02-08T14:42:37-05:00

I don't see why not. The certificate says that you served honorably and were retired. Someone who is retired medically meets both of those under most circumstances I could think about.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 5:04 PM

2015-02-08T17:04:39-05:00

yes

Response by SFC William Farrell made Feb 8 at 2015 10:10 PM

2015-02-08T22:10:52-05:00

Why you see the need for a different retirement certificate is beyond me. You are retired due to length of service or you are retired due to injuries or medical boards or whatever, you are still retired. Retired is retired. You did you time, no matter how log it is and some paid a higher price for that retirement.

For those of you who retired due to length of service, thank you.

For those of you who retired due to medical disability, double thank you!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 8 at 2015 11:19 PM

2015-02-08T23:19:04-05:00

Service is service. Retirement is retirement, regardless of how or why you retired. They should be worded different; you are retired. Many Soldiers are medically retired, because the Army broke them... Wounded or just worn out, or lucky, we are all retired. I spent 33 years in the Army, so is my retirement better? I believe, we all should have the same retirement certificate.

Response by Cpl Sabrina L. made Feb 8 at 2015 11:36 PM

2015-02-08T23:36:23-05:00

THIS IS ANOTHER FIGHT THAT IS CURRENTLY GOING ON..."MEDICALLY RETIRED" BEING TREATED AS 4TH CLASS CITIZENS...THOUGH IT WAS THEIR SERVICE THAT CAUSED THE MEDICAL RETIREMENT...UNABLE TO CONTINUE ON TO 20 YEARS OR MORE...WHERE THOSE WHO NEVER WERE "INJURED" OR "WOUNDED" IN PURSUIT OF A MISSION...ARE SOME HOW HERALDED AS "BETTER" BECAUSE THEY DID 20...

THIS CAN BE CHANGED BY THOSE WHO ARE ELECTED AND THOSE WHO MOVE/DO NOT MOVE THE "RIGHT" PEOPLE INTO MILITARY BILLETS SO THEY CAN BE USED AS PUPPETS~

Response by LT James Minnis made Feb 9 at 2015 12:56 AM

2015-02-09T00:56:08-05:00

how about a purple heart heading

Response by PO3 Mark Streit made Feb 9 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-02-09T15:44:21-05:00

Yes!

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Feb 9 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-02-09T21:38:39-05:00

As you can see the short answer is yes.

Longer answer is Department of Defense INSTRUCTION NUMBER 1348.34 provides for it...

1. PURPOSE. This Instruction reissues Reference (a) consistent with the authority in Reference (b) to establish policy, assign responsibilities, and provide procedures for conveying the appreciation of the President to Military Service members upon their retirement, in accordance with Reference (c).

3. POLICY. It is DoD policy that:
a. A DD Form 2542, “Certificate of Appreciation for Service in the Armed Forces of the United States:”
(1) Shall be presented to each member retiring from the Military Services after serving 20 or more years and attaining eligibility to receive retired pay.
(2) May be presented to other members retiring from the Military Services, as determined by the Secretary concerned.

I confess that while I'm rather schooled in various topics this was near and dear to my heart because I had an NCO that they were trying to medically separate in 2004 with 11 years of service... when I talked to a high speed G1 NCO... he told me this wasn't correct and would look into it and then educated me.

Steve... I read both the original post and your edited one. Simply... you struck a cord with a few of our brothers and sisters because you did not send the message you had intended. Lesson learned and next time you ask a question... ask a couple of trusted agents to review before posting. But please don't be mad at the receivers... for misunderstanding what you wrote/posed. That's just counterproductive as it is your job as the sender... to send a clear message. Just like grid coordinates. If you send the wrong grid... don't be mad at Joe when he doesn't go to the right place.

Lastly... different retirement certificates doesn't really make sense. It's a certificate of appreciation for service... that's it.

my 2 cents

Cam

My 2 cents

Response by TSgt Chad Freeze made Feb 12 at 2015 9:28 PM

2015-02-12T21:28:55-05:00

I say no to a retirement certificate. You did not retire you where medical discharge from service. In the AF I was taught Go, no Go type of thinking and that is why no further explanation on my part.

Response by SGT Edwin Claudio made Feb 14 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-02-14T15:47:35-05:00

Some of us who were medically retired didn't have the option to finish 20+ years. If it's members that used the system for a sprained big toe, then you my friend have a point.

Response by SSG Adam Reed made Feb 15 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-02-15T11:39:23-05:00

Funny you should ask. Here's why. I did 20+ years in the Army. Active, Reserve and Guard combined. I have one "combat zone" tour (profile pic). Yet I feel like I hadn't done shit compared to those who were in for whatever amount of time that were severely wounded. I'm not saying that the only way to fulfill your duty is to get wounded. What I'm saying is that the job they were doing when they were wounded was more inline with the mindset of "serving" your country. I said I have one "combat zone" tour". It was in Africa. Where the enemy were nonexistent and the beers were plenty. When anyone asks me if I had been to a combat zone I tell them yes, then I add the lengthy caveat of Africa. The rest of my career was spent shinning shiny things and straightening things that were already straight. So how can my 20+ year certificate even compare to a medically discharged combat wounded soldier certificate. It doesn't, I know it doesn't, I know it never will. And I'm fine with that.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-02-15T18:02:49-05:00

I neither agree nor disagree. Unfortunately, I have seen both sides of the Medical retirement status beneficiaries. In my opinion the Army is structured in some characteristics like the US Welfare System. Whether you work hard or not at the end a monetary contribution will come to you regardless. It is frustrating to witnesses those that talk big about playing the system.

Response by SSG James Oakry made Mar 11 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-03-11T17:12:28-04:00

Dude you just need to get a life!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 3:05 AM

2015-03-17T03:05:50-04:00

SFC Steven Grudzinski I somewhat understand what you are trying to say. Yes there are a few soldiers who exaggerate their injuries, or try to, just to see if they can get medically retired. BUT, that's why we have doctors, to see if the soldiers claims are true or not and if the soldier is fit for duty or not. If they get medically retired, it's because a professional deemed it necessary.

I came back from Afghanistan broken. With injuries on right shoulder, lower back, PTSD and LOTS of headaches which doctors are still trying to figure out. I have to take 6 pills a day, every day, and I'm still in constant pain daily. Mostly with my back, and I'm only 29 damn years old. I didn't take the MEB that was offered because I want to stay in. I was told that eventually, my injuries will end my career. I've only been in 4 years, I doubt I'll make it to 20 like I had planned from the beginning but I damn sure will try. Now I have to live with a permanent profile, having people think that I'm a dirtbag milking the system because I can't run 2 miles like I used to due to my injuries. If I do get medically retired in the future, I guess I won't deserve that "Retired" title too?

Response by SGT Cyrus Thompson made May 15 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-05-15T17:28:39-04:00

I believe it would all depend on what they were medically retired for? I am a medically retired sgt. but I was med. ret. from an ied blast in Iraq 08. I wanted to do all 20 maybe more but it was dictated otherwise for me.....now if you got someone on a med. chap like 13....or turf toe or just riding profiles often that's malingering....things like that yea a serious discussion should be had...my opinion

Response by SFC Benjamin Rivera-Figueroa made Jun 21 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-06-21T21:10:41-04:00

I think you have to do the 20 years like I did to deserve it, point blanck.

Response by CPT Anthony Kennedy made Jan 11 at 2016 6:05 PM

2016-01-11T18:05:30-05:00

17.5 years of service medically retired and never received my flag....... What I do receive is 70% of Captains pay at over 16 years of service. So the paper document I'd really irrelevant to me.
However I do have an issue in that a person with just over 2.5 years more service than I do can "regular" retired get out file a claim in the VA and receive concurrent receipt of both Military retired pay AND VA disability where as I have dollar for dollar deducted from my military pay for every dollar of VA disability.

Response by SSG Pamela Smejkal made Jan 11 at 2016 7:50 PM

2016-01-11T19:50:35-05:00

You're just mad that my retirement check after 13 years is 75% of my base pay and your will only be 50% of yours! i don't know what this so called "retirement certificate" is since I have not received one. I can tell you however what it was like at age 34 to have my mother brush my hair and put it in a bun for me (she only has use of one hand herself) , but my here wool socks on my feet as I screamed in pain, and attempted to properly tie my combat boots so I could report to fit on time via an hour commute. What it was like to not be able to
Wipe my own ass. Spend the witching hours in the local emergency room at least once a week in pain off the pain scale, get released after IV pain killers, go home and have mom repeat trying to get me ready to report to duty on time. Con leave denied on every level of the NJ Army National Guard command (I was active guard, full timer). If I were to get such a piece of paper you can piss on that one while you piss on SFC Merino's. I was a 92G,volunteered to cross train F5 so I would be a gainfully employed by my unit when we deployed even though It was against the Army Regs for me to carry such an Identifier (I passed over phase 2 of BNoc to do so). Upon returning competed for a full time slot in Logistics for Plan and Operations of State Emergencies. ( a bit of the last 4 years of my career) plus ADSW for nearly two years, 15 month activation (12 mo this boots on ground).

But let me enlighten you all that crap, all those medals and ribbons and badges and that piece of paper mean jack when you retire! It doesn't get you a job, it doesn't raise your retirement pay, it doesn't get you a better parking spot, it doesn't get you better service at Mc Donald's so what the fuck does it matter it I retired after 13 years or 33 years. I retired. I have a blue ID card, can use the on base MWR and stores and gas station, I can fly Space A. So that piece of paper would only be of value if I was lost in the woods surrounded by poison ivy and I had to wipe my ass.

Response by SSG Pamela Smejkal made Jan 11 at 2016 8:01 PM

2016-01-11T20:01:18-05:00

I also want to add that one must be diagnosed by a medically professional and seen by specialist in order to go thru an MEB, then have a max of 5 years as TDRL in order to go thru a PEB. These medical boards are no joke. A service members condition is watched carefully and he or she remains under a doctors care and monitored. Just cause you stubbed your toe doesn't get you medically retired. I truly believe unless your a dr then you need to keep your trap shut. Stay in your own lane. If you are and think a SM with a service connected physical
Or mental disqualifier or pre existing condition agribated by service shouldn't receive the same retirement piece of paper you would at 20 years someone higher needs to remove you from duty as a military medical professional.

Response by PO1 Kevin Otwell made Jan 11 at 2016 9:40 PM

2016-01-11T21:40:52-05:00

People who are medically retired do receive that

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:26 PM

2016-05-10T14:26:37-04:00

Why does it have to be "different". As a member that had little to no use of a right arm after three surgeries, it was time to go. It amazes me what people on this forum seem to ignore. If a Soldier chooses to stick around and endure pain and ridicule of a profile, that is Honor, Courage and Commitment. Just like the, new Soldier wearing multi cam issue a few months back. Why could they not wear multi cam? Opinion often becomes law in the Army until you are told what is common sense and what is not. I don't want it, but common sense tells me one year, ten years, or nineteen point five, there are Soldiers that earned that piece of paper through service and should get it out of "Loyalty to those with whom I serve, seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. Just my opinion.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 16 at 2017 5:33 AM

2017-08-16T05:33:31-04:00

In a nutshell, they served, they deserve.

Response by Sam Bocetta made Aug 16 at 2017 5:35 AM

2017-08-16T05:35:36-04:00

Yes

Response by MSgt Carl Stokes made Aug 16 at 2017 9:30 AM

2017-08-16T09:30:03-04:00

WTF is wrong with you? I cant imagine anyone other than a REMF that would feel this way.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Aug 16 at 2017 10:03 AM

2017-08-16T10:03:59-04:00

I was at 16 years when the Army said I was too broken to continue...I was also high on a lot of drugs so hard to argue. But yes.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Aug 16 at 2017 8:00 PM

2017-08-16T20:00:54-04:00

Since a significant number of people were able to retire at 15 years based on Congressional modifications at different points in history, while most of us couldn't I have no issue with anybody who is medically required I support those who are medically retired getting a certificate - assuming they were honorably discharged SFC Private RallyPoint Member.
Whether we retire after 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 or longer years of service I believe everybody should get the same basic retirement certificate whether retirement is based on years of service or medical separation.
I had an opportunity to be medically discharged in 2003; but, I elected to stay on. Congress modified the retirement law so that anybody mobilized after January 30, 2008 could have their retirement age reduced by 90 days for every period of 90 day qualifying service.
You stated "I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement. ... merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate."
I appreciate the spirit of your question which is why I up-voted you on August 16, 2017.
I have never down-voted anybody although I have been sorely tested :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 Private RallyPoint Member SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt Private RallyPoint Member SPC Private RallyPoint Member SrA Christopher Wright LTC Wayne Brandon SSG William Wall MSgt Jason McClish AN Christopher Crayne Sgt Trevor Barrett SPC Tom DeSmet SGT Charles H. Hawes

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Nov 30 at 2017 10:01 PM

2017-11-30T22:01:12-05:00

I would just like a DD 215 that I can read. I was retired in 1991, retroactive to 1987. I had already been called up for Iraq. Glad I didn't go and get killed

Response by SGT Barb Barker made Dec 27 at 2017 11:51 AM

2017-12-27T11:51:25-05:00

The effective date of my stating medically retired put me at 19yrs, 7 Mons 29 days! They stated I wasn't world wide deplorable anymore. My Unit was next on list to deploy and have several, many, many times since. I joined at 18 yrs old with a plan to do my 20 at least & hopefully more. I don't believe just because you we're allowed to or able to finish your 20 yrs that you are better or your service is better than someone who was injured in combat, effected by chemical weapons, injured in training. They gave MORE than just those that got their 20. They will have life long problems. Some got thru during no time of war. Some weren't in comat positions. To think you're better than those because you got your 20 yr letter is just narcissistic. Allot of those Medically Retired can never work again. If you joined young like 18 yrs old, after 20 then you would 38 you can still work. Draw your retirement and a pay check. Those of us who are 100% DAV only have disability pay and what ever amount social security we have built up. What about the Gold Star Families? I'm sure they don't think just because you got your 20 in makes your better than the one they lost! Heck no! Everyone's service matters. If you think you're better due to a 20 year letter you need to fall off that pedestal you've put yourself on and learn some humility. To ALL that served thank you for your service, your commitment and your sacrifices. Don't let others on this site make you feel like less, you are not! God bless you all.

Response by MSG Charles Turner made Feb 17 at 2018 12:12 PM

2018-02-17T12:12:23-05:00

Sergeant, my response is this question: Did they Honorably Serve and Retire? If Yes, then YES. If No, well.... maybe a discussion is needed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2018 4:10 PM

2018-04-11T16:10:22-04:00

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2019 1:29 AM

2019-05-01T01:29:00-04:00

None