Should Medics be eligible to receive the CMB regardless of unit? Should medics be 100 percent ineligible for the CAB?

2014-03-21T00:54:48-04:00

Regulation sets up a catch 22 for medics who are engaged in combat.

Iraq 2006 I was engaged in combat and had to treat a small girl who received shrapnel. As a medic, if I was with in a combat arms unit I would qualify for the CMB; however, we were under the 89th MP Brigade and I could only receive the CAB, which I would have received regardless of providing medical treatment or not.

Afghanistan 2009 still with the MPs I was engaged in combat and treated a GSW to the leg. This time we were under 2-12 IN and I received the CMB. The issue is my Soldier at the time was also engaged in combat during the deployment, but she never provided any medical treatment. Since we were medics assigned to a CMB eligible unit she could not receive the CAB, so while all the MPs received CABs she received nothing.

Am I the only one who thinks this is unfair? Should Medics be eligible to receive the CMB regardless of unit? Should medics be 100 percent ineligible for the CAB?

You could look at the regulation if you want, but the FAQ on HRC regarding CABs is very useful.

https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Combat%20Action%20Badge%20CAB

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 21 at 2014 1:03 AM

2014-03-21T01:03:12-04:00

I have to agree with you that Medics should receive a CMB regardless of unit affiliation. With the advent of the CAB that means that any unit can be considered "engaged in combat" thus if a medic is attached to a unit that receives a CAB and meets the requirements for a CMB that is what they should receive. It was my understanding that the CAB was created for units involved in combat that were not eligible for a CIB/CMB so I don't see why medics would qualify for both.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2014 1:24 AM

2014-03-21T01:24:19-04:00

The concept behind the CMB is more than slightly outdated in this regard. The reg needs to be changed to allow a medic to earn a CMB, regardless of what unit he/she is assigned to while providing medical care in combat.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2014 1:27 AM

2014-03-21T01:27:46-04:00

SSG Cook,

I don't believe you would have been eligible for a CMB regardless the first time, as you have to be rendering medical treatment to US or allied forces, not civilians or wounded enemy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2014 3:35 PM

2014-04-23T15:35:00-04:00

SSG Cook,

I agree with you 100%. When you erase the FLOT from the overlay and the battlefield becomes 360 degrees a lot more troops become subject to attack. Iraq was a perfect example of soldiers whose MOS is not combat arms being engaged by the enemy. How many countless convoys of all various units would get a det followed up with small arms fire? If a medic is boots on ground saving life or limb they should get the award.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made Apr 24 at 2014 3:12 PM

2014-04-24T15:12:36-04:00

That is a great link. I think I've heard/asked almost all of those questions in some way shape or form.

I think medics should be eligible for only the CMB. My understanding of the original intent of the CMB was to recognize medics that went through the same suck as the infantrymen they supported.

I received a CAB for much the same scenario as yours in 2006 in Baghdad with the 57th MP Company. We were engaged, but took no serious casualties.

I was also hopeful that when the CAB came out, the CMB regs would be ammended. I've seen 18D's allowed the CMB off and on for some time.

Response by SGT Shon D. Hill made May 5 at 2014 2:42 AM

2014-05-05T02:42:45-04:00

I agree with those who pointed out the drastic change in definitions and "type" of warfare we faced. The regs were written when warfare was more conventional. While I'm glad some are at least receiving a CAB, many truly earned a CMB and this should be able to be argued fairly.

Response by SGT Jason Doyle made Jul 21 at 2014 11:50 PM

2014-07-21T23:50:30-04:00

I had a doc that deployed with my MP unit in 03 to Iraq. Our mission was far from the traditional MP role. We were tasked with a great number of infantry related missions and my doc was incredible throughout our tour. I don't feel any of my fellow MP's or I deserve a CIB for our actions and I am fine with the CAB as a nice compromise (while I wish the criteria was a little more stringent). However, I do not see why other medics that are not combat arms are not eligible to receive the CMB. I understand it was intended for infantry medics, but that was based off of old war fighting standards and those standards are now blurred. I feel the medics who would qualify for the CMB outside of combat arms should qualify for the CMB. I would also like to see the criteria be beefed up a bit to ensure only those who were in actual combat earn the badge.

Response by 1SG John Paxton made Jul 24 at 2014 4:53 PM

2014-07-24T16:53:41-04:00

Based on the verbiage of the below noted regulation and the assumption that you were part of (attached) a combat arms brigade (I'm assuming the MP's didn't deploy as a brigade) you are eligible for the CMB. However, it is important to note that I have a CIB, CAB and a Marine CAR. I hold each and everyone of them in equal respect. Also, some may not know that a CMB is in a lower precedence category compared to the CAB and CIB.
§ 578.70
(4) Effective on or after September 18, 2001:
(i) Medical personnel assigned or attached to or under operational control of any ground Combat Arms units (not to include members assigned or attached to Aviation units) of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily perform medical duties while the unit is engaged in active ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to September 18, 2001.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 9:08 PM

2014-09-06T21:08:48-04:00

SSG (P) David Cook, I agree with you. My former boss, a critical care nurse, was stationed at a FOB and was continuously mortared over 6 months. Most of the IDFs were inaccurate but one did hit her hardened dorm and burned it to the ground. It was so bad her M4 melted to the frame of her dorm. Thankfully there were no injuries as everyone happened to be at work in the hospital at the time. In any event, she was awarded either the CMB or CAB, I can't remember which. But the AF won't let her wear it unless she is actively serving with the Army (someone please correct me if I am inaccurate). So there it sits on her desk. After all she went through, as well as what all of the combat medics go through while deployed, IMO you should be able to wear the badge you earned. Period.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2014 10:11 PM

2014-09-06T22:11:37-04:00

I never realized this. I can say that I learned something new today. This is also the case for Infantry. If you are infantry and are not in an infantry unit you are ineligible for a CIB. You would only get a CAB. I never knew of the medics having to be with a combat arms unit to get a CMB.

Not all soldiers were supposed to get combat awards. Only those who marched into combat were supposed to get them. This is the case with the medics that were with them also. Then the CAB came around and changed everything.

If he was engaged in combat he should have got a CAB. I don't agree with the logic that all medics are the same. In war everyone is at war. But there are those that go in an take the fight to the enemy and suffer the most. These are the combat arms. Not saying that MPs can't do this but this is not their mission. If all medics were able to get the same the award, would you agree with a Nurse on a Fob after the fob was hit and she didn't see any action. It would only be a matter of time when it would flood the system.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-11-14T13:31:29-05:00

Medic should be given one with Oak Leaves and Diamond clusters if they save my butt on a battlefield.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 5:27 AM

2014-12-07T05:27:55-05:00

As a medic on the ground I feel you should be eligible for both. I ran into same problem in Afghanistan. Because I was a flightmedic I was not eligible for either. I treated the wounded both on the ground under fire and in the air.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 9 at 2015 9:50 AM

2015-12-09T09:50:17-05:00

During my tour in Iraq we had medics assigned in our conveys which I was in a transportation company. We received small arms fire, IED and a suicide bomber drove into our convoy on one of our missions. I honestly don't know if the medics which were technically not assigned to our unit but were detailed to us for the mission received either. In my opinion I feel they deserve both, reason being on the one mission of the suicide bomber driving into our convoy they also rendered aide to the wounded.

Response by SSG Javier Antonsanti made Apr 29 at 2016 7:05 PM

2016-04-29T19:05:16-04:00

I believe if not eligible for CMB because of the unit then they would be eligible for the CAB.

Response by SGT Marc Riordan made Apr 29 at 2016 10:58 PM

2016-04-29T22:58:42-04:00

I know medics that were in a medical company that got CABs. I know medics that didn't do jack shit and got CMBs. Guess it's all in who writes it up.

Response by SP6 Reggie Lamothe made Mar 29 at 2021 4:58 PM

2021-03-29T16:58:19-04:00

I was a medic in the 720t MP company in Iraq and we treated multiple serous casualties. I earned an Arcom-V and a CAB but was ineligible for the CMB. This has always felt like an injustice to me and its unfortunate to see so many medics in a similar situation.