Should military billeting/berthing & restroom facilities (B/R) be unisex ?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:14:36 -0400

Should military billeting/berthing & restroom facilities (B/R) be unisex or should we have 4 to 5 different facilities to accommodate everyone?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:15:30 -0400

This is actually a discussion that a Naval RP member started but I wanted to expand it to all Branches.
This is one of those tough tough questions because my experience tells me one thing but logic, my sense of justice and equality another. I am not sure of if there is one correct answer but I can recognize the discrepancies in what we are saying and what we are doing. It is also evident that how we answer speaks volumes about what we really believe when it comes to equality in the workplace, tolerance and civil rights.
Experience tells me that hormones often dominate common sense. However this excuse could be used for any discipline issue from reporting on time for duty to the taking of drugs or alcohol. So that really is not a good reason that billeting/restrooms (B/R) cannot be fully integrated. If we ever do move to a system where billeting is unisex one regulation must be emplaced. A simple and clear rule could be that no Service members (SMs) under any circumstances can engage in romantic or sexual relationships. Rules don’t always dictate behavior but that would be a good place to start.
Many would argue that the best way to tear down gender barriers is to fully integrate. Train, sleep and eat together. Let male and female SMs see each other sharing the same facilities and hardships, meeting the same standards for physical fitness and for attendance to military schools. That more than anything will bring about the respect and acceptance that is required to break down barriers and stereotypes. The current method of “not lowering but altering the criteria” is not working as it lends itself to reasonable speculation that the standards are being lowered to meet a political agenda or albeit a civil rights goal. However we must never lose sight that the military is not a political experiment. That we are to lawfully engage an enemy and succeed in combat and anything that deters from that mission will weaken us. If we are to engage an enemy in combat with co-ed service members it also makes sense to train as we fight. During actual combat operations are we going to separate women? Do we really want the first time (SMs) bed down next to each other to be in combat?
I have read some of the DoD documents on the subject and the most interesting one is the “Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of Don’t ask Don’t Tell Policy.” The basic DoD stance is that women are allotted separate B/R in order to create an environment that is comfortable and to protect women from potential or actual harassment or assault. I understand how this along with UCMJ enforcement is effective but is it being fairly enforced? This is a particularly acute issue now that the DoD has permitted openly gay and transgender Service Members. Following that same DoD train of thought we would need to create gay, lesbian and transgender B/R as well. The DoD Report addressed that very issue directly and said
“We are convinced that separate restrooms would do more harm than good and would be impractical to manage and enforce. Concerns about showers and bathrooms are based on stereotypes that gay men and lesbians will behave in a manner that’s inappropriate or predatory manner in these situations”. (pg 141 second paragraph from the bottom, Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of Don’t ask Don’t Tell Policy)
I understand the practicality argument. Millions have been spent on separate B/R facilities. Imagine the cost if we needed to create 5 different B/R; Hetero male, Hetero female, gay male, gay female, transgender? Perhaps we need to imagine something completely different. What could the savings be if we only had to build one B/R?
Let’s then apply that sound logic about stereotyping to everyone. There appears to be several stereotypes in this argument with dangerous implications. Shouldn’t this same thinking about stereotyped behavior regarding homosexuals be applied to heterosexual men? Is it not a stereotype to assume that heterosexual men will be predatory? That they cannot be around the women/objects of their desire and affection but homosexual women and men can? Why isn’t that logic being applied to the objects of each group’s sexual attraction? Clearly it only applies to Hetero men. Certainly men (hetero and homosexual) make up the majority of sexual assault cases but there are male on male sexual assaults. However the DoD makes no additional effort to separate small weak men in their own B/R. It seems that there are many raging stereotypes. I also think many women would take exception being painted as victims and not warriors. The military has been very clear in establishing that there is no difference in the ability of women to defend themselves. Are they saying that they can defend themselves in combat but not in the barracks? This stance comes dangerously close to suggesting that? Does everyone deserve the same rights and privileges or should they be simply offered to some and not denied to others for convenience, economic/practical or other reasons? Do our rules pass the applicability test? If the intent of the DoD mandate is to protect the rights of the woman (or individual) from actual or unwanted harassment or sexual assault then that principle should apply to all, man or women, homosexual or heterosexual? We need privacy rights for all groups or all groups should share the same burden of no privacy. Is everyone being afforded equal protection under the regulations and laws?
We cannot have this logical schizophrenia. If one group deserves to be separated for their privacy that should apply to all or to none. If we have separate quarters because of physical differences in the ability of men and women to protect themselves then they should also recognize that difference when it comes to the training and composition of combat troops. We need a cogent plan that recognizes and balances gender based physical realities, economic considerations, and the civil rights of everyone. If it is a matter of privacy then apply that logic to all.
I commend the DoD taking steps to protect women and enforce tolerance. I whole heartedly agree that our military should represent the finest example of our national composition but while meeting the applicability test. Those same principles need to also be applied universally recognizing everyone’s rights and critical physical differences. Everyone is not tall enough to be a professional basketball player and not everyone is strong enough to be a military service member. We cannot change the fact that we are all different and wonderfully made. We can however apply our laws in a fair and democratic fashion free from stereotypes and discrimination. In fact that is our obligation. This process needs to be addressed while paying attention to economic realities, keeping our eyes on the overall strength and readiness of our nations Armed Forces. I recognize that experience tells us all that this is incredibly difficult, that some people will continue to behave inappropriately. But at some point we need to stop and analyze our arguments and make some hard decisions based on how people often behave and what values we really believe in and will adhere to. We should follow our principals and respect everyone’s rights.
The bottom line is that the cost savings to no duplication of billeting and restrooms would save huge amounts of money. It would also be in harmony with unit cohesion and maintaining everyone’s privacy/civil rights on a totally fair and impartial level. But would it be an impractical nightmare? Can we be separate with different standards and rights but equal? Would the establishment of unisex billeting and restrooms be a disaster because of practical reasons? Do some of these practical reasons mandate a serious open discussion about women’s role in combat units? Is the creation of one unisex B/R the best pathway to a safe and fair integration respecting the privacy/civil rights of everyone?

Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 27 at 2015 7:17 PM

LTC John Shaw — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:17:59 -0400

The Dutch have unisex and it seemed to work well for them. Their unit in Kandahar was 70% Male/30% Female. It is a huge culture change but I am sure everyone will get used to seeing the other gender in natural form...eventually.

We might want to study this one for a while before we implement. :)

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 7:18 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:18:41 -0400

I think I am too old to comment here.

Response by SPC Lisa Nolasco made Apr 27 at 2015 7:34 PM

SPC Lisa Nolasco — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:34:52 -0400

I have shared a tent with men while training etc. But to share a bathroom or a shower is going little bit too far.

Response by SGT Toby Woodrich made Apr 27 at 2015 9:06 PM

SGT Toby Woodrich — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:06:13 -0400

I could see this for the SF type soldiers like Rangers. I say that because of the women going through Ranger school. They ( Ranger Women) in my opinion should be capable of living among men. Regular Army women like admin I think, this type of women will be deterred to join in the first place knowing they would have to go thorough this I bet some men too for that matter.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 27 at 2015 9:27 PM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:27:37 -0400

Young men and young women cohabiting in close proximity .. what could possibly go wrong?

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Apr 27 at 2015 9:28 PM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:28:37 -0400

No, keep it the way it's always been. It's not broken so don't try and fix it!

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Apr 27 at 2015 9:35 PM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:35:06 -0400

We have the best military in the world and it's because we don't follow the world around us. Should we start using the restroom in the middle of the street?
Should we tell all American woman to stop shaving there arm pits?
Should we just let our male soldiers wear skirts?
Should we just remove every form of distinction between officers and enlisted?
Listen to reason; we didn't get to be the most powerful nation in the world patterning our self off of other cultures.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:26:16 -0400

No, our training environments (especially IET) should be completely segregated.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 7:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:08:48 -0400

Another challenging question here on Rally Point. The shower and bathroom facilities should remain separate in my opinion. Cohabitation in a field or deployment situation should be fine. There were no issues in my battalions while we were in Kuwait waiting to go into Iraq. Many of the female Soldiers I was stationed with felt the same way. We were in a big tent, it should not matter what sex an individual is in that type situation.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 28 at 2015 9:16 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:16:49 -0400

The more sexual we make it, the more sexual it becomes. The more taboo we assign it, the more of an issue it becomes.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 9:22 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:22:15 -0400

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Apr 28 at 2015 9:25 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:25:42 -0400

Now that's an awesome idea! NOT!!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 10:15 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:15:04 -0400

I think we have too many cultural norms involved for this to be practical. We had semi-integrated barracks at a training event I attended in 2008. It was nothing but a hassle. If I wanted to change an article of clothing other than my socks I had to go into the tiny gender specific bathroom. The rationale was that if females were put in separate billeting they wouldn't be able to interact with their peers at the same rate. Now imagine 60 males trying to cram into a tiny bathroom after PT in the morning, all because 2 females needed to be "included." It didn't do much for morale and did more to create resentment towards our females.

Until our views on gender relations and the human body changes I believe such a move would be more trouble than its worth.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 28 at 2015 11:34 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 11:34:33 -0400

It works for just about every other country. It's not our physiology that's the issue, but our delicate and prudish sensibilities. It's just a human body. Stop treating it's like it's forbidden and taboo. There's no reason whatsoever to segregate.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 4:13 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:13:32 -0400

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 28 at 2015 4:33 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:33:08 -0400

I imagine this will be getting tremendous support from the younger service members. I see a lot of headlines in the future and they are ALL bad.

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made Apr 28 at 2015 5:08 PM

SSG Kenneth Lanning — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:08:51 -0400

The way the times are changing, we're going to have to adapt to unisex; Europe already has for field missions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 5:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:09:47 -0400

I think the courts have been rather clear on the matter. Separate is not equal. A friend of mine had recurring nightmares of abandonment because as a female she was housed away from her unit and thus often did not get the word of changes or movements.

When my unit was on the road we housed our females in the male transient quarters and faced down any commentary with an aggressive wall of 'none of your business'.

Bottom line if you serve together you should be able to live together.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 28 at 2015 5:26 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:26:41 -0400

HELL, NO! We have enough dumb asses that can't take NO for an answer. Then someone wants to intentionally put the same sexes together. Plus if I m at the PX and my daughter has to go to the restroom I don't want her in there with someone googling her up! or some dumb ass to show things she don't need to see at 14 yrs old! some one is looking to start all kinds of crap with that!

Response by SSG John Erny made Apr 28 at 2015 5:26 PM

SSG John Erny — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:26:43 -0400

It will cause nothing but trouble, just another avenue for Joe to get in trouble. Besides, how many women want to take a shower with 40 guys standing around getting an eye full. Out comes a camera and then the whole world will see it.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 28 at 2015 5:32 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:32:50 -0400

Why all of a sudden after over 200 and something years is everyone worried about what the world thinks. We have done our own thing for a couple of centeries and has worked fine. so people don't like us, do you think they did then! we are still the young Nation that Used to be able to kick anyone on the blocks A$$, now we are so damn PC that we are going to hell and a hand basket really quick!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 5:35 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:35:14 -0400

I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the "everyone's the same, they should use the same facilities", with our ever expanding "sexual assault is real, anyone who looks at a member of the opposite sex wrong is committing an assault" training.

Response by SSG Mike L made Apr 28 at 2015 5:35 PM

SSG Mike L — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:35:39 -0400

No .....there's to many shit birds now that take advantage of females as it ....now let's make it easier for them
bad juju ....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 6:13 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:13:20 -0400

I don't see why not. I mean what is the difference between that and a straight person having a roommate who lives an alternative lifestyle?

Response by CPL Casey Hayes made Apr 28 at 2015 6:39 PM

CPL Casey Hayes — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:39:34 -0400

NO NEVER I WAS IN COMBAT ARMS RESTRICTED MOS. AND MAYBE I AM OLD FASHIONED THE MILITARY SHOULD NOT BE UNISEX.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 28 at 2015 8:05 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:05:14 -0400

Yes. We're going this way anyway. One standard for everything, uniformity, equality. The alternative is increasingly regressive segmentation and definitions and eventually lots of extra cost and complexity.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 10:02 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:02:12 -0400

Let's put the males and females together! See what could happen

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 10:47 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:47:50 -0400

I deployed to Kuwait with a 150 person Port Security Unit in 2003... with 60 females. We got there and were given two 100-person tents. We split up, 75 people in each.

No pregnancies, no illicit schtupping, no shenanigans, just 150 people that were professional about how they went about business.

I've told Senior NCO's from other services about this and their heads damned near explode, and then they go on to explain how it's impossible.

It's a matter of leadership and professionalism - end of story.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 1:04 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:04:34 -0400

I personally feel that separate male and female bays during basic is fine and should be left alone. I had a few issues with overbearing 'girlfriends' during basic that threatened to kick our ass if we showered with their girlfriend... and we spent some nights doing remedial training because of girls sharing a bed, but we dealt and nothing else happened. It was a new experience and we all learned to 'get along' for the 8 weeks we were together.

Some of these segregation questions are based on open sexual preference; it is now a question of 'hostile work environment due to sexual harassment'. Homosexuals and heterosexuals can feel harassed by each other.
If we opt to segregate, then to be equal, we will have to give every individual their own room and possibly bathroom. This would defeat the purpose of team work and cohesion.

I have slept in a tent with males and nothing happened, but we were all more mature and had a understanding. The more people in the room the less likely something will happen. However, the longer a person is near a temptation the more likely something is likely to happen. Some of our younger Soldiers do not have the maturity to keep to themselves or keep their mouth shut.

No matter what we do as an organization there will be a possibility of sexual assault/harassment until we change our mentality and go back to general respect for each other regardless sex, sexual preference, skin color and religion.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 6:34 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 06:34:57 -0400

All I hear is one word and that's SHARP

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Apr 29 at 2015 5:35 PM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:35:30 -0400

As long as there is privacy showering and shitting unisex should be fine; however there will always be some that will try to abuse any situation and precautions should be utilized for the safety of all. Buddy systems or human monitors or camera's at the doors to time record who entered and exited the facility to clear or convict violators.

Response by LCpl Rosalie Young made Apr 29 at 2015 9:29 PM

LCpl Rosalie Young — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:29:15 -0400

I am guessing that this isn't really a question. I mean, seriously, who actually would have to think about this to know it's a disaster in the making?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 29 at 2015 9:36 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:36:39 -0400

Absolutely not.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 11:12 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:12:19 -0400

Wasn't there a similar question a month ago? I spent a week in a GP small with a guarding a bunch of computers I'd signed for in one half and a female and all the equipment she signed for in the other, by the end of the week we didn't bother putting up sheet for changing. To dirty, tired, and funky. At other times I went tdy overseas with females, sleeping in tents, cars, sharing a room in a hotel. Truth is after a few days the novelty wears off. Maybe I was a mature twenty year old, but unless the woman was getting naked for me, General nudity didn't hold much appeal. Yeah the first few days were interesting, but by day three of the mission I was over it. While none of the womeni deployed with ever said it, I imagine they were over my nudity even quicker.
I don't know if I should let out the big secret, but women are human too. After a certain number of beers they will burp their names better than you. After a week of eating local food in another country they will stop pretending that smell is coming from the stagnant pond and admit it's counter-chemical warfare in an attempt to cancel out what you released ten minutes ago.
After a week in south America, driving a '79 land rover with no a/c and a radiator leak, she will begin taking off her stale, sweat crusted clothes as soon as she hits the door to your shared room and break your leg if you even look at the shower.
And that's what I learned about women before I got married.

Response by Sgt Tom Vaughn made Apr 30 at 2015 10:47 PM

Sgt Tom Vaughn — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:47:48 -0400

Gays and lesbians demand that I accept them and their wants and desires ! I demand they accept mine as well. And I do not want to sit on a toilet next to a gay man. Nor do I want to shower with them. So now will they respect my demands ? Do I need to take them to court to protect my rights ?
Tolerance ! Two way street

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 12:13 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 May 2015 00:13:16 -0400

Personally, I wouldn't care if I were with my Company cause I know them better than most. If there are/were a select few that I wasn't comfortable with then I know who I can go to that would keep an eye out for me. However, my biggest issue with this- is some of the younger Soldiers. I look out for my males and females so when the ones that would cause trouble come in, I try to keep a better eye on them so that no one gets in trouble when they shouldn't. It is way too easy for the he said/ she said or he did this/ she did that. I think it would get ugly fast: more fraternization, more fights, more drama in general. Not so much for the older ones (more counseling a for us to write), but the younger ones. Worst part is, I don't think it would be a bad idea if it weren't for the few bad apples. Communication throughout may work better cause everyone would be in one area, accountability would be a little easier. It's just all the extra "who's sneaking to who's bed" or "oh look they both went outside at the same time" drama. Divorce rate would probably go up. People wanting to stay in but because of the shared rooms, some (not all) spouses wanting them to get out. Lose a lot of good soldiers

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 9:21 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 May 2015 09:21:13 -0400

No unisex is not the way to go. With the sexual harrassment and assault issues in the military this would just encourage it unfortunately. I wish it could be like this but we do have Soldiers that can not act apropriately therefore I do not see it working out.

Response by Cpl Arik Blane made May 3 at 2015 4:20 PM

Cpl Arik Blane — Sun, 03 May 2015 16:20:57 -0400

Oh I can already see the sexual harrasment/rape charges if this happens, also there will be so many safety standowns and death-by-powerpoint briefs

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2015 5:18 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 May 2015 17:18:08 -0400

Might as well. With homosexuals now allowed to serve openly and the debate getting warm regarding transgender/transsexual - it's going to have to happen. We can't give everyone their own billet and latrine.

Someone else mentioned this - only in America are we this uptight about seeing the other gender in a state of undress and in regards to sex. Go to an indoor pool in Germany and everyone has it all hanging out and not giving it a second thought.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 6 at 2015 5:04 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 06 May 2015 17:04:42 -0400

It's a touchy subject. I can't comment on this as I see the benefits of both sides.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 10:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 May 2015 22:46:53 -0400

During initial entry training I see it as a necessity. Once a SM is at their duty station and conducting regular ops it can be a hindrance.

I can't count the number of times I've been one of less than 5 females in a unit and was forced to be separated from everyone else. Many times that meant information was not passed to us because we were housed in other buildings or with other units.

It's absolutely frustrating. I understand the desire for safe and secure, but it's not that big a deal to me. If we haven't figured out self control by the age of enlistment, then we clearly have bigger issues. Everyone can get over the hygiene issues, snoring, farting, burping, whatever. Everyone does all of these things, get over it.

Put everyone together and stop making a big deal out of gender.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 4:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 16:46:14 -0400

Hell to the NOOO!!

Every barracks in the military would instantly turn into a nursery. It's just human nature.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made May 8 at 2015 5:00 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 08 May 2015 17:00:23 -0400

There is an issue in the military with rape and harassment, why make it more tempting.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 5:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 17:05:22 -0400

If you think there are sexual harassment and assaults now, it will be a hell of allot worse then!

Response by SSG Jayne Reed made May 8 at 2015 6:39 PM

SSG Jayne Reed — Fri, 08 May 2015 18:39:19 -0400

Totally loaded question, but you know what? *Yes*. We have to get over our prissiness and thinking with what's in our pants and just be soldiers. We don't have time for foolishness.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 8:58 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 20:58:06 -0400

"Welcome to (base x) before I give you a bunk assignment, let me give you a 3 hour long SARC briefing"

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2015 11:12 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2015 23:12:32 -0400

Yes, but not yet. We still have many gender related issues the US needs to work through before this could be a feasible option. One step at a time. I hope in the near future our culture will be mature enough to handle this, but I don't think it's quite yet. (Maybe within the next 20-30 years? I hope before I retire.)

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2015 8:16 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 May 2015 08:16:07 -0400

No, it some places the bathrooms aready are. When I was stationed on Sicily the guys used the women's bathroom all the time. It wouldn't bother me if they cleaned up after themselves. They left pee on the tolit sets and paper towels on the counter.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made May 9 at 2015 10:30 AM

MAJ Haris Balcinovic — Sat, 09 May 2015 10:30:44 -0400

Interesting question, especially in operational environments. I think going unisex may be more efficient but you're never going to please everyone no matter what.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made May 9 at 2015 5:48 PM

SGT Joe Sabedra — Sat, 09 May 2015 17:48:29 -0400

Male and female only.
The rest is personal choice not biological.
Deal in facts not wants.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made May 9 at 2015 6:58 PM

SGT Joe Sabedra — Sat, 09 May 2015 18:58:05 -0400

It is in the not too distant future but it will be based on mission and need not the norm.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 9 at 2015 7:15 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Sat, 09 May 2015 19:15:06 -0400

From what i experience and witness, Each Battalion at Osut have 3 platoon, Each platoon have a dorm and we all share in that same latrine.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 9 at 2015 10:04 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 09 May 2015 22:04:30 -0400

Yes if you want 60 minutes involved.

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made May 10 at 2015 1:28 AM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Sun, 10 May 2015 01:28:19 -0400

Many of you on this site don't remember the sexual harassment charges that shook the military during the 1990s. Many of the accused were senior Leadership. This sparked the whole "Army Values" campaign. These safe guards were put in place to eliminate not only possible issues from arising again, but also to remove the very impression of inappropriate behavior. We don't need to add more drama to our military. Leave things alone and learn to work within the established structure.

If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? -Psalms 11:3

Response by SGT Mark Seymour made Jan 5 at 2016 11:09 AM

SGT Mark Seymour — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:09:53 -0500

I have to tell you, I haven't been in the army in the medical field men and women were constantly stationed together. Unisex billeting and such were quite common, and never an issue.

Response by SGT Andrew Sherman made Jan 5 at 2016 11:19 AM

SGT Andrew Sherman — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 11:19:42 -0500

I was in a team of 7 people, one of which was female while deployed to Iraq. We always stayed in the same billets while traveling, she felt safer with her team than in a separate part of the base by herself. For that setup, it worked. Obviously, it's a different situation than making random people stay with random people, but if thats the standard, be professional and hold people accountable. I'd like to think that the majority of people would be fine and for the few people that try stuff, the good people would stomp their guts out.

As far as bathroom facilities, during our stay in Basra, the restrooms all had enclosed toilet stalls and communal sink areas and that's what both sexes used the entire deployment. The showering trailers rotated every hour between male and female. Inconvenient if you don't plan I guess, but it worked just fine.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Jan 5 at 2016 12:30 PM

SPC Jeffrey Reese — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:30:27 -0500

Let me begin I have been out of the ARMY for 25 years and believe it or not even when I was on active duty in my unit when it came to field exercises women slept in the same Tents as the men. Granted it was a Maintenance unit and my platoon only had 3 women but they slept in the same tent as the rest of us. Most usually they used a tool van to change clothes in. Back then toilet facilities was hit and miss some times you had them some times you didn't so Poncho's came in handy.

Response by SPC Antonio Zavala made Jan 5 at 2016 12:35 PM

SPC Antonio Zavala — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:35:34 -0500

When my unit was returning home from deployment, one of our stops was Bagram. One time I went to use the latrine, I saw a female french soldier attempt to go into the female latrine, but it was locked, with a sign posted out of order. She didn't hesitate to turn around and go into the male latrine. I took the mindset of if she doesn't care, I don't care. It's not an issue unless someone makes it an issue. It's all about respect.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 12:40 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:40:20 -0500

In the air force, the entire flight is in one room but there's a wall between the two bays connected by a hall on one side and a doorway without a door on the other end. Probably something like that would work

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 5 at 2016 1:47 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:47:41 -0500

Again, one of my pet peeves, a thumbs down from a SFC who doesn't have the cajones to debate an issue. The recommendation from RP is to provide the logic for your thumbs down, not throw your medals over the white house fence. The least you can do is reply so that I can respond properly.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 1:49 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 13:49:22 -0500

the only thing that bugs me is when you get someplace and there are 2 latrines/showers. My last deployment we had 2 shower trailers with 3 stalls each in the officer area. 30+ male officers got to share one and the only female officer got the other all to herself.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 5:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 17:48:24 -0500

Well, as an HCT member (usually a SPC and a SGT), I was attached to an Infantry platoon in A-stan, 2010. I was the only chick on a COP of 100 dudes. They weren't going to set up an entire tent for the ONE female they had, so I had to room with the dudes. They kicked me out of the tent when they had to change, and I just changed in the shower trailer (due to differing standards in sanitation, we kept ours locked and gave the ANP their own trailer, so ours locked). I guess when we act like adults we don't have issues. Go figure.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 5 at 2016 10:30 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 22:30:08 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member All I can say is that when I entered the our wooden barracks latrine one weekend AM in 1953 and saw a female using one of the ? 6 "stools", I moved out and went to the adjacent barracks

Response by SPC Dale St. Pierre made Jan 5 at 2016 10:34 PM

SPC Dale St. Pierre — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 22:34:35 -0500

Did a convoy to fob hammer in 09 RON tent with females in it (not ugly either ) about 40 men 2 women. No hanky Panky all night long, and everyone woke up refreshed what a shocker, I know right.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 6 at 2016 9:41 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:41:53 -0500

In basic training environments and follow on AITs etc...absolutely not. These are 18-20 years olds with raging hormones and most are away from home for the first time. you put an 18 year old boy with an 18 year old girl in the same shower and sleeping arrangements you are going to have issues...consensual or not. They have enough to worry about and learn with their training to have to deal with living and seeing the other sex naked...just asking for trouble. We had it at my summer ROTC training and it was difficult at best and these were a little older than your normal boot.

Now after all of the training and you are deployed sometimes it can't be avoided. A bare base or outpost situation you just have to work it out. Sleeping in the same open tent areas...ok...showers, women for a block of time and men for the other block of time. Or a set of Cadillacs for women and the others for men. Once in the operational environment, they have become Airmen/Soldiers/Sailors/Marines/Coasties and have grown up a little bit and aren't just off the street. If they break the rules, drop the accountability hammer.

Response by SGT John Rauch made Jan 6 at 2016 12:59 PM

SGT John Rauch — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 12:59:43 -0500

yeah sure, that will certainly get rid of our SHARP problems. yay! no more SHARP power points!

Response by SP5 Roberta Sanchez made Jan 6 at 2016 11:00 PM

SP5 Roberta Sanchez — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 23:00:18 -0500

I think so. It is at home, isn't it?

Response by PO1 John Etnire made Mar 1 at 2018 7:02 PM

PO1 John Etnire — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 19:02:09 -0500

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jan 19 at 2020 9:36 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:36:06 -0500

Not just no, but hell no