Should Navy SEAL 'Hell Week' practices be reconsidered after the recent tragedy?

RallyPoint Shared Content — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:21:05 -0500

On Sunday, Navy officials announced SEAL candidate, 24-year-old Kyle Mullen, died after the highly demanding training session known as 'Hell Week' and left another sailor hospitalized. This isn't the first incident during or connected to Hell Week.

Hell Week is meant to test the physical and mental determination to perform in the most difficult conditions; it's why Navy SEALs are recognized as some of the highest trained members of the U.S. military special operations forces.

Do you think 'Hell Week' needs to be reconsidered or is it a necessary risk?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2022 9:52 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 21:52:17 -0500

Training has to be hard because combat is harder.

Response by SFC Marc W. made Feb 8 at 2022 9:53 PM

SFC Marc W. — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 21:53:51 -0500

Several years ago a 32 year old major died after running the 2 mile run on an APFT. Pushing our own bounds of physical limits is part of what we take on. I think the exact circumstances need to be reviewed carefully by those who know the program best and determine if there was something over looked either by cadre or the candidate.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2022 9:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 21:56:27 -0500

Should Airborne operations cease because someone burns in?

Response by Maj Robert Thornton made Feb 8 at 2022 10:08 PM

Maj Robert Thornton — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 22:08:26 -0500

Should we stop flight operations at sea because an F-35 crashed? Risk is inherent to the military life style.

Response by PO2 Marco Monsalve made Feb 8 at 2022 10:22 PM

PO2 Marco Monsalve — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 22:22:10 -0500

No, not reconsidered yes, necessary

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Feb 8 at 2022 10:33 PM

CWO4 Terrence Clark — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 22:33:25 -0500

No. Complete a sitrep and get back to training warriors. We have too many soft handshakes as it is.

Response by SPC Robert Hendrickson made Feb 8 at 2022 11:15 PM

SPC Robert Hendrickson — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 23:15:28 -0500

Training for the SEALS/BUD for a few bits of training should be reconsidered. ...

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 9 at 2022 8:28 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 08:28:51 -0500

I don't think we have evidence to support changing Hell Week at the moment. We still don't know what illness caused the two candidates to be hospitalized. If there is an issue related to the instructors or class schedule it could be debated but it is way too early to start shifting the course around. SEAL training is hard because SEAL life in general is hard. Combat isn't easy and watering down training shouldn't be the knee jerk reaction right out the gate when there is most likely alot more to the situation.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Feb 9 at 2022 12:07 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 12:07:54 -0500

The brutal truth is military training is designed to be hard. Accidents and overstress on a body with an unknown condition leads to a number of deaths per year. It's considered a cost of doing business. Back in the day, everybody at Boot got 200M IU Bicillin in butt/hip area. I have personal knowledge of Great Lakes killing 2-3 recruits a year due to allergic reaction. They were typically from the hill country and never had penicillin before. The cost and time of doing allergy tests precluded that option. Why did everyone get that jab? Lab tests to see who had the Clap cost time and money too. So everyone got it so the system could move on.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Feb 9 at 2022 2:18 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 14:18:36 -0500

One candidate out of how many? Not just this class, but all of them? Maybe one in ten thousand die? Is that worth it to make men who are that much better at killing and surviving and saving lives? Seems likely. If they screwed up their safety procedures, then that needs to be addressed, but SOF training is inherently risky.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Feb 9 at 2022 7:45 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 19:45:38 -0500

No. I'd rather die in training than in combat where my enemy trained a little harder and the rest of my unit was depending on me

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 9 at 2022 9:30 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 21:30:48 -0500

Gee, maybe he was weak? Seals have been training pretty much the same way since they were called UDT in WW!! And guess what folks we lose people in training all the time- it is a dangerous job. Tankers don't know if the ran over a tree or Billy Bob who wasn't paying attention.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 8:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:36:13 -0500

Change nothing, we train how we fight and if we expect our troops to endure extreme, dangerous and life threating situations in battle; they need to train to be prepared. There is danger in everything we do; not only military, but civilian as well. Every year we hear of high school athletes dying during training camps ... should we just end everything that is meant to be hard...

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Feb 10 at 2022 8:58 AM

SMSgt Keith Klug — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:58:28 -0500

I agree with many of you on here. Let's wait and find out why he died. Maybe he had an undiagnosed condition like maybe a brain aneurysm. For those that don't know, check out what happened to Emilia Clarke, from Game of Thrones. Life is not guaranteed.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Feb 10 at 2022 10:22 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:22:36 -0500

A .002% casualty rate is no reason to abandon a training program.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Feb 10 at 2022 12:09 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:09:52 -0500

As a retired Navy Veteran who has worked with the SEALs in the Helicopter Community and had several friends on the SEAL teams I say leave them alone. These individuals INTENTIONALLY CHOOSE to participate in this stuff to see if they're going to make the cut. The REAL WORLD DANGERS are a 10,000 times worse than what "HELL WEEK" is. Let's be honest they "Bleed in Training to Stay Alive in the Real World Encounters."

There's no reason to revamp anything other than add a few more medics and safety spotters to the training to prevent accidental deaths from happening in the future. The fact they don't use the Eisenhower Matrix and other training tools enough to prevent problems; is also an issue. SEALs should be smart and brave enough to handle the problems.

I saw the events of "Black Hawk Down" when I was on the USS Lincoln during the whole Battle of Mogadishu (1993). These men risked their lives in rescuing those during the incident. While the SEALs managed to avoid being killed by local Al-Qeada suspects and Somalian Nationals; they did sustain wounded members as part of Task Force Ranger. Those who did survive but came back with the bodies of many of the dead from the sites. A lot of sailors and marines on board the Lincoln prayed for those who died there on those foreign shores

Sometimes there's bad things that happen in these training programs and on rare occasions people can die or get seriously injured by those events. Even my own career of getting electrocuted by stupid co-workers who pushed in because of shitty training and failure to properly educated the folks who should be watched while still new. There's a reason why we have safety briefs before we work on live power on Aircraft and also reminders in the manuals as well. The problem is when those folks who shouldn't be in those areas are unsupervised and not having a safety spotter nearby.

In my case; said Airman wasn't even Flight Deck Certified for Night Shift but some idiot E-7 let him go up unsupervised and the Plane Captain didn't have him glued to his side for OJT training; instead he knew just enough to be dangerous unsupervised. He put Power on a "NO POWER" Aircraft due to work where open wiring was visible and clearly ignored every sign and even the tape that was on the electrical outlet for aircraft power. He pushed in circuit breakers and switched on power without waiting for anyone (Me) to respond to stop him as I was elbows deep in a Sonar Rack with open wiring. Next thing I knew I was bouncing my helmet off the AUX fuel tank after seeing a blinding flash of light from the Sonar sparking in my face. I survived by it's part of the reason why I have Neuropathy issues in my hands and feet thanks to that idiot's failure to know what they're doing. However, as I've said before TRAINING prevents Accidents from happening; GREAT TRAINING means that you never have to worry about someone being an idiot and nearly killing you or a coworker.

Response by CW5 Roberto Longu made Feb 10 at 2022 12:43 PM

CW5 Roberto Longu — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:43:23 -0500

I think is a necessary risk

Response by SGT Robert Farrell made Feb 10 at 2022 2:16 PM

SGT Robert Farrell — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:16:45 -0500

DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made Feb 10 at 2022 3:03 PM

SGT Wayne Grindstaff — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 15:03:22 -0500

I vote No

Response by CPL David Widding made Feb 10 at 2022 6:01 PM

CPL David Widding — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:01:46 -0500

Keep training hard it is needed. Yes it us tragic that he died but when was the last time someone died in training.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 7:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 19:00:23 -0500

A necessary risk

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2022 12:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:18:00 -0500

No.

Response by PO1 James Tinsley made Feb 11 at 2022 7:37 AM

PO1 James Tinsley — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 07:37:45 -0500

No!

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 11 at 2022 9:04 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 09:04:17 -0500

No - Stuff happens in training. Its not something that is ever going to change. We can limit the risk, but without that risk it would quickly become MORE dangerous to other troops when crunch-time comes if someone was unable to step up due to their being unfit to meet the mental and physical challenge required by our profession of arms.
Only once did I take a soldier that was forced into my unit because he was 'expected' to succeed because of who his father's position was in the US Army.
He was a fine individual but was unable to understand his place (we had several conversations about it) about how an officer relates to the leader/soldier dynamic. His lack of discipline and more specifically his poor enforcement of discipline, led to his, though an officer, and another private soldier being grievously injured. Another soldier, the specialist whom which he had bonded and talked him into the situation, died.
All this came out in the 15-6 investigation, so my answer is, "NO!". The officer avoided following the training that have been given, conducted himself poorly and thus was unable to enforce his supervisory position vs the soldier's position.
This was also my failure to properly train the officer. The worst mistake I ever made as a PSG. I learned the lesson I needed and never allowed it again.

Response by PO2 S White made Feb 11 at 2022 10:06 AM

PO2 S White — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:06:35 -0500

Necessary risk. You don't want someone out there that can't take the heat

Response by PO2 S White made Feb 11 at 2022 10:12 AM

PO2 S White — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 10:12:49 -0500

Necessary risk. You don't want someone out there that can't take the heat.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Feb 11 at 2022 11:27 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 11:27:26 -0500

This is a very necessary risk. These men are thoroughly instructed in what to expect before, during, and after training. They are constantly treated and monitored the entire time of their training. The training they endure is absolutely necessary, because the enemies they will have to face in combat will do far worse if they are captured. These men simply Must be prepared for any and all possible scenarios at all times. Though this loss was tragic, and I pray for his family. This brave warrior knew Exactly what he signed up for, and gave his life to defend this nation. He may not have finished the course, but he still said Yes, when countless others said No. Rest well Brave Warrior, your brothers will man the Wall in your honor.

Response by SSgt John DelaVina made Feb 11 at 2022 6:43 PM

SSgt John DelaVina — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:43:36 -0500

Even though this was unfortunate and my prayers to the family, todays military is getting too damned soft Those in SOF have to train as hard and miserable as training can get so when the shit hits the fan and you are in middle of nowhere your exposure to hardships in training will and can save your life and lives of others in your team As Maj Thornton comments "Should we stop flight operations at sea because an F-35 crashed? Risk is inherent to the military life style." And that is 100% correct

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Feb 19 at 2022 8:23 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:23:55 -0500

Note: This is a supplemental post to my original post below. I added a few additional facts from another person asking about how many SEALs have died in training overall?

I also pointed out the PENTAGON continually has failed in properly investigating TRAINING ACCIDENTS since 2006 to 2020. I was still in and an Instructor at the time at CNATTU Norfolk (02-06); both teaching courses and helping to move AVIATION ENLISTED TRAINING to digital formats (200 classes). I addressed SAFETY as a TOP PRIORITY in each course as a person who survived someone else's stupidity. Therefore the DoD needs to fix it's shit from the top down including having the Secretary of Defense slam down on the Pentagon failure to teach SAFETY to ALL HANDS is critical!

Navy SEALs were founded in 1942 and have only lost a total of 24 candidates in their 80 years of existence (according to their own SEAL Museum in Norfolk). The thing is that 1 in 5 members fail and around 10,000 people apply to be SEALs per year. So on average there is a candidate likely to die once every 3 years if averaged out over the length of the history of the SEAL team training.

While the MoD's SAS/SBS have the exact same numbers and also included females to their ranks since 2018. Have had over 100 deaths in total; but have lost the most of them between 1984 and 2021 in comparison at 20 dying due to training accidents.

The SAS/SBS started in 1941 as a parallel development course and while only a year older than the Navy SEALs and other Special Ops they have lost more people because of their operations in the Brecon Beacons (National Park) in Wales during Cold Weather Operations.

The Navy SEALs who come from Marines usual do Cold Weather training at Fort McCoy and then transition to the SEAL teams if they're selected by their COs and upper leadership as good enough to participate.

Lastly the fact the Pentagon is not properly investigating the deaths of military personnel due to training accidents is nothing new either. As a former Safety Petty Officer and also Master Training Specialist who updated the courses to Online Digital between 2002-2006; I added safety points in each training section to address dangers in the Enlisted Aviation Community especially as a person who was nearly killed by electrical shock when an unsupervised Airman was allowed to put power on an SH-60F when it was secured for NO POWER and he disregarded basic safety protocols and caused over $500K in damages to SONAR equipment.

https://www.audacy.com/connectingvets/articles/how-many-troops-are-dying-in-training-accidents-and-why

How Many Troops Are Dying in Training Accidents And Why?

Across the Department of Defense, from 2006 to 2020, 5,605 service members were killed in training accidents.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Feb 22 at 2022 5:29 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:29:13 -0500

Absolutely not. This training is designed to be the way it is because the ones that make it have the will and mindset to do the job. If their body gives out during training then that is just life but the body count will be much higher if we lower standards. This is no different than Green Berets, Rangers, Air Force Combat Controllers/Pararescue or any other spec ops pipeline. They all have their version of hell week and it works. Lower the standards and you will raise the body count not only for them but the ones that they are paving the way to come in and assault behind them.

Response by Sgt Ray Addison made Feb 27 at 2022 9:15 AM

Sgt Ray Addison — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:15:52 -0500

We all took risks. I believe it should continue.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Mar 1 at 2022 5:16 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 05:16:59 -0500

Thanks for sharing

Response by SPC Dennis Kregel made Mar 6 at 2022 5:45 PM

SPC Dennis Kregel — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 17:45:19 -0500

Does this mean that we should stop Airborne training also, because in the history of the US Military Airborne school has the highest rate of injuries per session than any other school? Broken legs, arms, wrists happen almost on a daily basis sometimes before they even reach an aircraft.

Is it a true shame that we lost that service member during Buds. Yes it is, however I would say this to you. If there were someway for us to reach that young man right now and pose your question to him I can almost assure you that his response would be to not stop Hell Week. He gave that course all that he had to give and unfortunately he gave too much.

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Mar 17 at 2022 1:26 PM

Sgt Frank Staples — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 13:26:06 -0400

I really believe that it could be toned down just a little...the well earned rep for the SEALs is that they can do whatever you need done is fine BUT you gotta remember that even such an august group of people have had their incidents and black sheep...so the program doesn't necessarily weed out all of the misfits and I think some great candidates probably get left behind. Now y'all know I was Air Force so you can take that into account!

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 7 at 2022 10:55 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 10:55:58 -0400

Training accidents happen.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 7 at 2022 11:04 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 11:04:02 -0400

Military training is not high school in Oregon where standards are waived to make sure everyone graduates.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2022 5:10 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 17:10:42 -0400

Many archaic practices should be done away with. Tough realistic training is what we need. Mitigate risks and always put the safety and welfare of trainees above all. Basic leadership stuff.