Should not answering a phone call be subject to UCMJ?

2022-12-15T01:11:24-05:00

This was sent out to all of us today just wanted some clarification on it I understand accountability is big but I think this should be handled better. As far as what if a soldier phone dies? Or what if a soldier is somewhere where service is too good to receive a call? I would just like to hear some opinions on this one.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Dec 15 at 2022 1:44 AM

2022-12-15T01:44:12-05:00

Not Everyone Has Their Phone Glued To Them.
Maintenance Personnel Who Are Working On A Vehicle Would Probably Not Have Their Phone On Them.
And Yes Cell Phone Reception Is Not Good On Some Of The Larger Posts , Or Inside Some Buildings .
I Could See Off Duty, Because Your Always Subject To Recall , But On Duty No It Could Be Dangerous To You Or Your Phone

Response by MSgt James Parker made Dec 15 at 2022 3:08 AM

2022-12-15T03:08:29-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I think I can understand the intention from your leadership. There is absolutely a reason and purpose during duty hours for instant communications. I also understand these are the days when each member of the unit has a cellular communications device. Speaking for most of the Veterans here, we didn't have that capability throughout our careers or time in service, so let me try to explain how it was done pre-digital age (during the days of the dinosaurs.) Each work area (section, dispatch. staff duty area and command HQs) had a hardwired analog phone(s) - think of a landline phone. Each unit maintained a call/phone roster during duty days and for after hours were personal home numbers (for recalls). At each of the phones (even some home phones) we had three items (phone answering procedures guide - yes how to answer and what to and what not to say- with instructions on taking bomb threats/active shooter/threat cons/etc., there was also a yellow message log or a spiral/bound message logbook, and something to write with -pen/pencil/crayon (Marine snack).) When the leadership or Operations Section had something important to pass the first information said to anyone who answered the phone was "this is a F.R.O.S.T. call, standby" any additional information after this comment was to be recorded and passed immediately to the Senior person in the area. For history FROST is (Fast Response on Short Transmission) our Active Duty and Reserves still use this format, when my unit received their activation for the LA Riots this is the call made by 1st Marine Division. We also had different Distribution Groups (for example Group A might be company commands and Battalion Staff Primary's, Group B would have been Company Senior Enlisted and Section Chiefs and Group C could have been all Duty locations and they were responsible for forwarding the information to the unit sections.)
All we had to do was record who answered the phone and the time of contact. The purpose of me telling you this is it may help in your situation to suggest to your leadership implementing this method and request the use of this or similar method. Currently, I have given rights to the leadership of the unit I support in Korea to transmit emergency messages to all members of the 750-member unit. When activated the messages go out on email, Campus Area Network devices, and the over 100 unit issued cell phones we maintain and user can setup forwarding to their personal devices, this is a necessity in the last few years to maintain positive communications. In addition, we continue to use the FROST method I recommended when I came aboard. We say: "If it isn't broke then don't fix it." Just a few thoughts for you.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Dec 15 at 2022 7:21 AM

2022-12-15T07:21:44-05:00

This is an OK idea, poorly executed.

If the problem is people not answering texts, why would you send this in a text?

Also, whatever happened to leader accountability? SGT Snuffy is supposed to know where PVT Schmedlap is. SSG Jones is supposed to know where SGT Snuffy is. SFC Smith is supposed to know where SSG Jones is. Etc. This concept of "you had better answer, or else" is basically admitting that we don't want to hold NCOs accountable for informing their troops or for knowing where they are at and what they are doing.

Hey, if 1SG calls, answer the damned phone!
Understandable and understood. Threatening with "you better call back, or else!" is just poor leadership, IMHO.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 15 at 2022 8:01 AM

2022-12-15T08:01:15-05:00

There are all sorts of issues related to answering personal phones if the unit does not prohibit you from answering personal calls you most certainly have to answer organizational calls. Why would you not want the latest information associated with your daily mission. So either comply or deal with the consequences. I assure you that your unit would have to be I’ll advised if they haven’t converted this with legal. Cell phones have been around a long time and unit personnel have had standing orders related to responding to alerts and messages if you fail to follow an order you are subject to UCMJ. as for phones misplaced not charged etc., you appear to be looking for excuses.

Fall in line then check with legal, not the other way around.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2022 8:42 AM

2022-12-15T08:42:55-05:00

Everyone should be accountable. Everyone should consider themselves on call and ready to go. And everyone can maintain contact with leadership.
Having said that…
Those calls or messages are going to get missed occasionally. I don’t answer my phone in the car. Plenty of times my phone rings and I don’t hear it from my back pocket. When that call is returned, it might be outside of that 15-minute window.
You’re a critical asset to your unit, and you need to be available. But unless your unit is deploying right after lunch or you’re the one carrying the nuclear football, your unit should have better contingency plans in place than UCMJ action.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2022 9:21 AM

2022-12-15T09:21:48-05:00

"What if the phone dies or there is poor reception"?
That's covered in the part where the Soldier explains it.
Surely you understand the reason this was put out was because the unit has problems beyond the legitimate albeit very infrequent dead phone or occasional poor reception.

If a Soldier is working in a facility away from the company area, and a leader came over from that company area to talk to the Soldier, he would stop what he's doing and talk to the leader immediately.
The same is expected for a phone call from that leader, rather than seeing the call or text, and deciding to get to it when it's more convenient for the Soldier, like we typically do with calls or texts outside of work.
And it's disappointing that leadership actually had to explain that concept.

Short of holding three formations a day to ensure everyone hears everything they need to know, (and three formations a day means everyone has to work that much later to get the same amount of work done) how do you think this should have been handled?

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Dec 15 at 2022 9:38 AM

2022-12-15T09:38:03-05:00

Sounds fishy to me. I would not buy a phone for this. Your leadership sees you at Reveille, Morning work call, Lunch chow call, afternoon work call, Retreat and evening chow call. If something that damned important that it cannot wait for next formation, then send a runner.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Dec 15 at 2022 10:39 AM

2022-12-15T10:39:18-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I concur with a lot of other people here. But I have reservations about its implementation.

First, apparently there is a problem. Who is leaving their Leadership on "read" or ignoring their calls? It sounds like there are other failures going on here.

Second, I don't agree with the solution. There is no way this would hold up to UCMJ scrutiny, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse to "fight it". Junior leaders should find a better way to stay connected with their leadership and their subordinates so it doesn't have to resort to this. No one wants to have 4 formations every day, and leaders don't want to have to track down Soldiers every time they have something that needs to get done.

Personally, perhaps because of my rank, position, or relationship with my subordinates, I have never had an issue with getting responses. But in a tactical or operational environment, I went to them unless I needed the information or work done immediately then I used the radio. I dislike carrying wireless phones on duty, personal or otherwise. It detracts from maintaining communication skills with our tactical communications equipment. However, I see the benefits.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2022 11:00 AM

2022-12-15T11:00:17-05:00

It's during the duty hours, there's no reason someone shouldn't be reachable. Before we had cell phones we just sat around the company area waiting for taskings, I think being available for phone calls is not an unreasonable request if you don't want to sit around the PSG waiting for a tasking.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Dec 15 at 2022 11:02 AM

2022-12-15T11:02:05-05:00

You have to look at the big picture. The 1st Sgt is crackdown because accountability is not being done. An incident occurred in some way and he is forcing change. out a mass nasty gram does a few things. It is a scare tactic for sure but it also forces NCOs to actually be leaders and maintain accountability of their people better. Will this policy be enforced forever? Not at all. I would recommend you while the dust settles. It probably wasn't you or your people that caused this but you just need to let it it's course and not get worked up over it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2022 1:04 PM

2022-12-15T13:04:38-05:00

I mean I hope 1SG checked with legal before he pushed that out. I mean a backstory would be helpful.

I saw one one WTF that said everyone with kids had to bring their kids to formation and report by 0620 and then could leave after. I was just like - huh? Pretty sure that's why CDCs on at least every Army base open at 0600 so people have time to drop them off and get to formation. And then you have these soldiers now missing PT because they have to go take their kids to childcare.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 15 at 2022 1:18 PM

2022-12-15T13:18:04-05:00

OK, judging from your question you have never been in a unit subject 1 hr or less recall. This is a way of life for units in the entire XVIII Abn Corps- all 130k of them. You have 18 hours or less to be wheels up for deployment anywhere in the world.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 15 at 2022 4:32 PM

2022-12-15T16:32:09-05:00

Here's another "good policy idea that is poorly implemented" situation. I would assume there has been some issues within your unit of leadership not having a good read on where their troops are at any given moment. Sounds to me like the NCO's need to step up their game with maintaining accountability.

I can see multiple reasons why a troop might not respond to a text or a call to a cell phone. If they are like I was and often worked in a "secure" facility, cell phones (and unencrypted landlines) were STRICTLY forbidden in the area. Add to that, larger posts (such as Ft Bliss, and Ft Sill) often have poor reception in more remote areas of the installation). Maintenance troops might be elbow deep in grease and lord knows what else trying to repair equipment.

All that being said....pick the hill you want to die on. Do you REALLY want to piss off your unit leadership by ignoring calls/texts? Some times missing a message can't be helped but those should be be exception, rather than the rule.

Response by Amn Dale Preisach made Dec 15 at 2022 10:42 PM

2022-12-15T22:42:47-05:00

Hell yes. If you don’t the reason for the call may have been time sensitive. In that case that’s dereliction of Duty, abandoning your post. And i don’t care if your girlfriend/ boyfriend / significant other was having cellphone sex with you. You are there for a reason . And you are in the military. Not a security guard at a motel/ resort.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 18 at 2022 2:14 PM

2022-12-18T14:14:36-05:00

Agree with those in string that believe there is more to the story than what SGT Private RallyPoint Member posted. If unit personnel have consistently failed to respond to calls or texts from leadership then some form of directive and discipline may be necessary. Personnel working on the flight line or in maintenance facilities may not have their phone available or be able to hear it if it rings; phones aren't permitted in most secure facilities. If Soldiers have been excused from duty for a period of time, but ordered to be available, then this is a reasonable order. Leadership needs to set boundaries for non-duty times, holidays, leave, etc., so everybody understands their responsibilities.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2022 1:49 PM

2022-12-23T13:49:22-05:00

Given that it is limited to duty hours, you are required to be reachable. now whether the use of personal property to make that contact is where it may get dicey. As an example: before cell phones were everywhere, when in a duty status on the weekends you checked out with the barracks duty if you were there or called the SDO to check out if you lived in your own home; you told them where you were going and when you would return, and you checked back in afterwards. So, if you are in a duty status your direct supervisor should be able to contact you if you are not at work. But me being me even now, I don't answer anything from my boss work related when off work, if they want to contact me, they can try to give me a work phone, and i won't take it home with me, because i aint paid to work from home