Should Officers be exempt from EO training?

2016-11-12T16:03:23-05:00

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 4:15 PM

2016-11-12T16:15:59-05:00

I don't think we should be. One team, one fight.

I agree with CPT Snell, quarterly is overkill, coupled by death by powerpoint.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 4:25 PM

2016-11-12T16:25:33-05:00

My first though was no, why is it even asked. Then when you described your class I have second thoughts. In that setting the officers might well prevent participation of lower ranks.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Nov 12 at 2016 4:52 PM

2016-11-12T16:52:21-05:00

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Nov 12 at 2016 5:23 PM

2016-11-12T17:23:53-05:00

NO! Death by powerpoint is a TEAM event.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 5:43 PM

2016-11-12T17:43:10-05:00

I have found in round table discussions that seperating sr from jr is always good.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-11-12T18:26:44-05:00

No, the goal of these programs is to ensure that all soldiers understand whay constitutes EO, SHARPE and a slew of other training.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 6:32 PM

2016-11-12T18:32:11-05:00

Officer should be required to be given refresher training on opportunity ,sexual harassment all that stuff. Look how many officers Brigade commanders ,Admirals,1& 2 star generals who have been fired for inappropriate behavior whether that be misappropriation of funds, having a girlfriend while married you name it or even over the course of time generals who lost a star or two because of their bad behavior so no, officers need this training they are human being made too many mistakes and they lose their career over theit vanity, sexual miscounduct or favoritism.

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Nov 12 at 2016 6:49 PM

2016-11-12T18:49:02-05:00

This question is above my pay grade lol. I would say that officers and enlisted should have separate classes

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Nov 12 at 2016 7:07 PM

2016-11-12T19:07:28-05:00

Get all of these check the block courses and require them once a year. Knock it out and get on with the combat training.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Nov 12 at 2016 7:57 PM

2016-11-12T19:57:21-05:00

Everyone needs a reminder of the EO policy and expected behavior. However, in my opinion some groups need more trainings than others.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 12 at 2016 8:36 PM

2016-11-12T20:36:52-05:00

NO... they need it as much as every one else...

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 12 at 2016 11:34 PM

2016-11-12T23:34:31-05:00

My own thoughts is I think Officers need the training as well, Otherwise how do they evaluate NCO's to whatever is the current standard that the Army sets.

You know on this subject I have kind of a fun story to tell. I bought and ran a franchise sub sandwich shop for a while to try my hand at business and supervising employees (I had 15 total employees). Anyways one of the first things I noticed is the Females would not touch the garbage or the trash.....none of them, they treated it like a contagious bacteria culture. There were times I would take out the trash and garbage (as Manager I always shared with the unpleasant tasks). So finally I had a employee meeting and told them. "We all have to share in both the tasks we want to do and the tasks we would rather not do, it's not fair to the guys to always have to drag the trash / garbage out to the dumpster". That fixed it for a while, then about 3 months later they were back avoiding it again. So I had to repeat myself.

Oh one of my favorite quotes from that experience: "Erich the toilet is plugged and flooding water and now the water is starting to make it into the hallway outside the restroom". The poor guy walked I think it was about 150 feet from the restroom all the way back to the rear of the kitchen to tell me that.
All I had to say was "And what do you do at home when that happens?".....lol Kids these days.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Nov 13 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-11-13T10:43:05-05:00

I think everyone should be exempt from EO training. It is a stupid waste of our time. No one planning to violate any of the standards set forth in EO standards ever stopped because of an EO briefing. Just like no one ever became less racist because of a briefing on racism. We waste our time and then pretend we did something and feel good about it.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 13 at 2016 11:18 AM

2016-11-13T11:18:22-05:00

Actually "no" for another reason too. Officers need to know what and why the stuff that's being pushed out to the troops. Most of the time for the new stuff, officers were the first ones inoculated along with the SELs. We'd then work to see what trip flares we might encounter, ask the providers the clarifications and what if's in advance and then hope we captured half of them. I remember the spectacular failure of "Project Upward Seminar" during Zumwalt's tenure, the open violence it sparked, and the morale going deeper into the dumper.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Nov 13 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-11-13T14:06:41-05:00

I've never meet an Officer who didn't understand the basic processes and policies of their EO program. Most have ample opportunity to adjudicate EO complaints while in leadership positions. Basic education of EO policy is required. How to train students, perform workshops or prepare written complaints is not.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2016 11:38 PM

2016-11-13T23:38:40-05:00

It seems that Officers should have this training more than anyone else. In my opinion it would be most beneficial to educate from the top down.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2016 11:48 PM

2016-11-13T23:48:04-05:00

I don't see why they would be. I don't think EO or SHARP for that matter is a rank specific subject. Whether you're Junior, NCO, SNCO, WO, or CO it's a SM subject not a rank subject.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-11-14T13:20:18-05:00

gonna have to agree with captain gabe snell here, too many just sign the roster and then get on their cell phones and/or tablets and/or w/e and IGNORE the dang power point, it IS overkill; but hey, you signed on the dotted line sir/ma'am, so, take your seat please...

Response by SSG Ray Murphy made Nov 14 at 2016 1:26 PM

2016-11-14T13:26:02-05:00

One shot. As soon as you join/enlist/commission etc, you get one each of all these bullshit classes. Then you're good for your entire career. As someone already has said, anyone that is going to do any of these things is going to do it. These feel-good, political classes are a huge waste of taxpayers money.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Nov 14 at 2016 1:39 PM

2016-11-14T13:39:35-05:00

No, But I do believe that all ancillary training should be reduced by 50 percent across the board.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 5:18 PM

2016-11-14T17:18:14-05:00

No, I don't think they should be excused from these classes.

I had a very bad experience meeting with my company commander along with 2 other females in my unit. He was a captain and I had just got married and gone thru the whole name change process and a few months down the road I found out I was pregnant. So these other 2 females and I were called into his office for a "pregnancy briefing" 2 of us were married the other was single. once he was done going over the Army regulations and company policies he had some follow up questions for all of us. the one that crossed the line was where he asked if we know who the fathers of our babies were? We reported it to our EO officer, and nothing happened. there were other questions that he asked but that was the one that stuck with me the most and hurt me the most.

the ironic thing was, when my son was born, his was a Major was having complications with her pregnancy, so I went to go visit her while I was in the hospital too. He happened to come in while I was visiting with her. he actually thanked me for visiting with his wife, and to relax and enjoy my maturity leave and time with our new baby. I thanked him and I left.

once I got back, I tried to avoid him as much as possible, but our son ended up with some serious health issues and so I was in and out of the Company office as well as the hospital with him.

Response by SSG Christopher Conklin made Nov 14 at 2016 8:58 PM

2016-11-14T20:58:39-05:00

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Nov 14 at 2016 9:55 PM

2016-11-14T21:55:43-05:00

I think we have seen enough examples of senior officers getting fired that if anyone needs to go, it should be them. However, I had EO/SHARP/COO training throughout my career. Every senior officer has had it too. Training does not make someone follow the rules if they do not internalize them.

Response by LTC Matthew Maki made Nov 14 at 2016 10:32 PM

2016-11-14T22:32:12-05:00

Yeah, it is a requirement to attend this training. Is this a sacred cow never to be questioned? Is there any chance that the emphasized merit of the training also inserts less visibly, political correctness and/or social engineering on the captive audiences without rigorous review, revision, or revalidation?

Response by MSG Gerd Hoffmann made Nov 15 at 2016 3:19 AM

2016-11-15T03:19:30-05:00

No!

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Nov 15 at 2016 4:05 PM

2016-11-15T16:05:32-05:00

NO! Had to sit through many EO briefings and classes during my days, even recall a few extra ones after the Travis AFB affair. Rank doesn't have any effect on the need to get this training and routine refreshers. In fact, one could probably make a case for officers getting more EO training than the average enlisted member due their positions of leadership.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2016 4:21 PM

2016-11-15T16:21:10-05:00

Simple answer, NO!

Response by SMSgt Roy Dowdy made Nov 15 at 2016 6:40 PM

2016-11-15T18:40:53-05:00

Absolutely not! If enlisted have to sit through that nonsensr, then they should as well!

Response by CPL Anthony Slaughter made Nov 16 at 2016 7:09 PM

2016-11-16T19:09:49-05:00

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2016 7:27 AM

2016-11-18T07:27:08-05:00

No. Every Soldier, regardless of grade or position, ought to complete Equal Opportunity training. However, the teaching approach should be differentiated between positions in order to discuss, and teach the role that leaders have in cultivating an equal opportunity environment for all Soldiers.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Nov 19 at 2016 8:43 PM

2016-11-19T20:43:05-05:00

Just the W1 that we send to sign all of our names.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Nov 21 at 2016 2:59 AM

2016-11-21T02:59:59-05:00

No way. That would be like exempting cats from litter box training.

Response by MCPO Tom Bennington made Dec 29 at 2016 7:40 AM

2016-12-29T07:40:16-05:00

Why would anyone care what officers are required to do or not do?

Response by CPO William A. Bullard Jr. made Dec 29 at 2016 7:54 AM

2016-12-29T07:54:04-05:00

The very fact that there is "the" reality of E/O training is indicative of failure of command at ALL levels. This is only so much paper work circle jerk B/S for C/Os to cover their arses and that's all it is. Provide a paper trail and nothing more; it's all camouflage Gunn'y. Hathcock would puke. I was Asistant to the training Officer at the reserve Center in Wash, DC and we never got beyond PB for T; that jack ass goat rope event took up almost a whole weekend, for what???? So that the various Reserve Unit C/Os could say that they 'talked about" talking about training????? Gimme' a break here. The only reason this silliness goes on at all is that we don't have a two ocean ass kicking killing match war going on to constructively occupy our time that's all!

Response by 1SG Ernest Wulzer made Dec 30 at 2016 9:03 AM

2016-12-30T09:03:48-05:00

I actually attend EOMI in 1977 and served as the RR/EO for 6 years at 2 different locations. Ft. Polk La DIVARTY..... FS Okinawa INSCOM. Officers were not required to attend with enlisted at either assignment! I agree with that position.
My office provided separate training for officers. Unfortunately senior enlisted nor senior officers EVER attended! The majority of complaints were generally from junior enlisted against E-6s to E-9s .... some were legit EEO issues!! Most were leadership problems! Poor to no communications skills and inadequate counseling techniques!
Within the Officer ranks junior officers were receptive, the middle grades were where the problem existed! Captains, Majors and frustrated 05's....... I additionally taught a program call Leadership Mangement Development Course(LMDC). That was a worthwhile GROUP program where significant in roads were made improving ALL facits of senior leadership, both officer and enlisted!
My timeframe within the EEO community was during in my opinion the beginning of the Army's efforts to speak to ALL if the "ISMS"..... racism, and sexism! Challenging time because our nation was struggling worse than our military with equality, ethics, and the chore issues of our nation!!
If your training is boring, repetitive and scripted in power point..... then the trainers are not a tune to their audience and it will be ineffective! The program is already looked down upon by participants.... Remember..... when nothing is said...... a lot is happening!!

Response by Maj Rob Drury made Jan 11 at 2017 4:45 AM

2017-01-11T04:45:36-05:00

Other than as a CYA tool, hasn't EO training proven itself useless by now?

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jan 18 at 2017 7:38 PM

2017-01-18T19:38:33-05:00

No. EO training is their dumb idea and since they are making us sit through it, they should be made to do this too.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 9:31 AM

2017-01-24T09:31:51-05:00

No one should be exempt. Nothing further needs to be said.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Jan 24 at 2017 10:35 PM

2017-01-24T22:35:26-05:00

Seriously? With the litany of misbehaving GO's over the past decade, officers need to go twice!

Response by CPO William A. Bullard Jr. made Jan 26 at 2017 11:47 AM

2017-01-26T11:47:55-05:00

Simple evidence of a seriously internal metastasis of cancer in the Armed Forces. You don't need EO training to be a good Gunn'y, Chief, or Sgt.1st you have UCMJ, Navy/MarCorpsRegs, Army/AirFoirceRegs, just what else do you need? In praise of Sec.Def Mattis, DHS Kelly but the simple truth here is that our standards have sunk so damned low that we think these two fine men are "OUTSTANDING????!" Come on Troops, come on Marines!!!as good as these two are [and they are good] in World War II these two were your average everyday field/line and company officer. Our Marine Corps and Navy histories, Army and USAAF documented histories are full of these minds of men; they wouldn't have thought for a second about wiping out a suspected nest of bad guys, bogies, zombies, zoomies, ogres, and trolls, calling and asking for permission or having some silly assed jerk-off of a JAG Officer vet the damned target. The very fact that we have to praise them and indulge in the intellectual jack assery of E/O training is a demonstrated reality of just how low we have sunk. Get the G/D school teachers, sociologists, and academics in uniform with shoulder boards and nifty power point laptops out of my beloved Navy and Marine Corps combat team. Two reasons we got'em A- My Marine Corps is no longer 250,000 men as set by law, my Navy is no longer an 800 ship Navy and B- we are not in a killing match in the Pacific with kamikazis, suicide bayonet charges and flak so G/D thick you think it's a carpet over Regensburg with bomber crews we had to load on at gunpoint because if we did the E/O jerks, sociologists, and the Academics would have been killed off long ago just to survive.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Dec 30 at 2020 8:46 PM

2020-12-30T20:46:16-05:00

No!

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Dec 30 at 2020 10:43 PM

2020-12-30T22:43:03-05:00

No! What would be a valid rational for the exemption?

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Dec 31 at 2020 9:48 AM

2020-12-31T09:48:32-05:00

If the training is mandatory for all, then Officers are obligated to attend. If they disagree they should voice their opinion up the chain and still attend. I would like to know what is the curricula and the purpose of the training. What I have heard is that what is being taught is troubling, because it appears to be more in line with political indoctrination than teaching folks to understand each other and get along. For those who have been in a Squad know that the optimum EO is achieved during combat. The only concerns are can you trust the guy watching your 6 and do you have enough ammo. Nothing else really matters.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Dec 31 at 2020 10:47 AM

2020-12-31T10:47:15-05:00

In my own experience, ABSOLUTELY NOT! I say that because officers have been my biggest offenders. What I mean is that in all of the EO complaints (and SHARP complaints) that I've filed, investigated, sent forward, etc. more than 60 percent of them were problems caused by officers.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Dec 31 at 2020 6:01 PM

2020-12-31T18:01:25-05:00

My answer is no. They, at least, need to know what the EM are being exposed to and the latest policies in effect.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 31 at 2020 6:35 PM

2020-12-31T18:35:58-05:00

Why do you ask this question?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 31 at 2020 6:42 PM

2020-12-31T18:42:37-05:00

No. They are a potential source of EO/EEO complaints if they don’t manage their personnel correctly.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2020 7:41 PM

2020-12-31T19:41:04-05:00

No.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Dec 31 at 2020 9:02 PM

2020-12-31T21:02:45-05:00

In a word, no.
Officers are supposed to be leaders. What kind of leaders impose death by PowerPoint and does not go through it themselves?
Seriously, Officers should not only go through EO training, they should be able to GIVE EO training.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Jul 20 at 2021 4:28 PM

2021-07-20T16:28:55-04:00

No, top to bottom.