Posted on Nov 29, 2014
Should Officers be required to earn SPC (P) before commissioning?
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Do you think all Soldiers should begin their careers at E-1 and work their way up to SPC (P) before commissioning? I am certain it would increase the amount of respect between the enlisted and officer ranks. It might even end all the bad jokes about LTs.
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Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
This is a duplicate discussion. Click below to see more on this topic.
I've talked with many officers throughout my career. I've noticed most have the ability to effectively lead and guide enlisted members. Most (not all) of the officers I've seen who are truly among the best are prior enlisted. Do you think being enlisted contributes to the leadership effectiveness of officers?
Responses: 7
No. This question has been asked in various forms across RP and there are several trains of thought on the matter. It would be the equivalent of asking an engineer right out of college to go dig ditches for pipes or go install wiring in a house or drive an oil truck to gain the experience of what the workers do who put into place what they the engineers plan and design. IMHO, its not necessary.
NOTHING will ever end 2LT jokes :-)
NOTHING will ever end 2LT jokes :-)
SSG (Join to see)
I have heard many automotive mechanics say that auto engineers should be required to work on cars before they are allowed to design anything.
SGT John "Buck" Buczinski
With all due respect, sir. I've seen and been victim of some ridiculous decisions made by inexperienced officers that woulddefinitely have benefited from having a prior enlistment instead of just an appointed commission. The best officers I ever served under were all previous enlisted.
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Everyone has a different take on this and that's good SPC D W. and SGT John "Buck" Buczinski, it keeps the discussion lively. As within any career path, people make good and bad decisions. I am an ROTC grad. I had 4 years of leading cadets, studying and understanding leadership and planning and executing exercises. It all comes down to what you learn and how you apply it. A leader LEARNS to understand their subordinates and their needs. Spending 2 years in a rifle squad will give you a taste of things but will, IMHO, not have much impact or bearing on becoming an officer - a manager of troops - and different role than an NCO - a supervisor of troops.
As I've said before, you will lose every medical/scientist in the army. I spent 13 years in college - didn't have time for being enlisted. Surgeons come in at O-3 if they have a medical degree - why would being a SPC make you a better surgeon?
MAJ (Join to see)
SGT John "Buck" Buczinski So you would eliminate every officer looking to go through OCS coming out of college? I never even thought about military before I had a college degree - and I was not going to go E-1 as a college grad. That's just economics. You would lose out on every college grad looking to serve.
TSgt Joshua Copeland
I would disagree with that MAJ (Join to see). I teach at the First Term Airmen's Center (FTAC) and upwards of a quarter of each class has a Bachelors Degree and even a few Masters Degree. This is in the AF where they only give you E3 regardless of if you have an Associates Degree (or equivalent credit) or a Doctorate.
MAJ (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland I started the OCS process with the Airforce after getting my bachelors - I was going in as O-1. So no, I was definitely not going in E3. I was also offered O3 after getting my PhD by the Air Force, but I went Army instead.
TSgt Joshua Copeland
OTS is a different animal, but slots for OTS are pretty slim for non prior service folk. Direct commission is even further from normal with folks being commissioned as high as O6.
Because OTS is so competitive, many option to enlist first to increase their chances at OTS. That said, the most you will get is E3 coming in on the enlisted side.
As an example, just recently the non-rated OTS board meet. Out of almost 500 applications only 160 were selected and of them 100 were enlisted.
Because OTS is so competitive, many option to enlist first to increase their chances at OTS. That said, the most you will get is E3 coming in on the enlisted side.
As an example, just recently the non-rated OTS board meet. Out of almost 500 applications only 160 were selected and of them 100 were enlisted.
Big negative. And there are tracks in place to allow for commissioning of enlisted personnel. Perhaps expanding the number of slots for enlisted commissioning would be a good idea, but I fundamentally disagree with a requirement to have to serve enlisted prior to commissioning. It is simply two different career paths in one large organization.
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