Should officers get clothing allowance when the Army mandates a uniform change?

2014-11-09T13:15:03-05:00

Officers get a 1 time uniform allowance when we first come in. With that said, with the transition to multicam next year, this will be my 3rd change of uniforms since 2008. This gets expensive. In my opinion, even officers should be given a 1 time allowance when it's an Army mandated change of uniform. I'm fine with paying for my own when it's just day to day, but when the Army changes everything, there should be an additional allowance. It's going to be around $500 to transition from ACUs/current APFU to the new multi/APFU.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 1:14 PM

2014-11-09T13:14:02-05:00

No, I think that should be reserved for the enlisted. I agree that the uniform changes do get expensive, but we can write them off on our taxes. Also, in my opinion, it's no different than buying civilian attire every year or two for a civilian job. And many them do not get reimbursed.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Nov 9 at 2014 1:23 PM

2014-11-09T13:23:31-05:00

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member,

In my opinion the answer would be Yes. But, financially it is not an option for the Government.
But, if it was required it would definitely make them think twice on making uniform changes for what seems like no particular reason than some type of leadership change.

The new army PT uniform is a good example...I for one do not see any benefit in the new PT uniform (seems like nothing more than a color change). The previous one was great change from the old cotton PTs.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 1:26 PM

2014-11-09T13:26:01-05:00

I vote no on this, and I experienced the uniform changes as an officer for 22 years. Had to go into my pocket for all of it, except for the initial few hundred dollars, which I spent on my first set of class As. Officers make quite a lot more than enlisted, so that annual clothing allowance kind of makes it up to them on the uniform front.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-11-09T13:31:43-05:00

I don't see why we don't. I know we get more pay but our uniforms cost a bit. The ASU is expansive. When you get to field grade the Mess dress is even more. If we are mandated to get a new uniform I don't see why we should get the cost of the basic uniform. A SGM make more than a LT and they still get the clothing allowance.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 2:49 PM

2014-11-09T14:49:13-05:00

Think about how much it would cost to a private if we didn't have the allowance? And we will still probably have to eat into our own pocket change just to have and adequate number of uniforms.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Nov 9 at 2014 2:50 PM

2014-11-09T14:50:24-05:00

No, they should buy the new uniforms when uniform changes are mandated....here's my logic:

- a MAJ with 10 years of service has a monthly base pay of $6,593

- a SSG with 10 years of service has a monthly base pay of $3,381

- there are points to argue on both sides...but one general point that cannot be denied is that it is our enlisted force that is out there on the ground with more of a chance to rip/tear/stain/destroy their uniforms much more often (during daily duties) than our officers (and in some cases our Senior NCOs)

for what it's worth, I believe for all ranks that stay over 20 years, we should not be entitled to clothing allowance either.

including the pay chart (2014) for those that want to have a look:

http://www.military.com/Resources/2014-Proposed-Pay-Charts-1-percent.pdf

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Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 3:05 PM

2014-11-09T15:05:40-05:00

No, I do not think officers should get anything beyond the initial allowance. I understand that uniforms are quite an expense but that, to me, is the price of doing business. The enlisted soldiers need the allowance due to the pay gap that exists.

For officers in the reserve components who feel that it us a huge expense, bear in mind that you do not have to get everything at one time. When I transitioned from BDU's to ACU's I did so two at a time and it worked out fine. Just my opinion.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Nov 9 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-11-09T15:47:33-05:00

I am one of those folks that feels that if it is mandatory, it should be issued. I personally like the way the Air Guard and AF Reserves handle it. Bring in your worn out uniform item and you get issued a new one.

Very few enlisted actually use their clothing allowance for uniforms but treat it as a yearly bonus.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 3:54 PM

2014-11-09T15:54:56-05:00

Yes! Or how about do away with all uniform money and issue out new stuff when ours are blown out, soaked in mud, dyed with blood, etc.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Nov 9 at 2014 3:57 PM

2014-11-09T15:57:50-05:00

Officers receiving a clothing allowance when the Army mandates a uniform change is actually just a symptom of an illness. The actual illness is the blatant waste of scarce resources when DoD (each service) and DA (the Army) change our uniform as often as some people change their underwear. For Class A's, first we had the greens, then we had to change our greens because a dye was changed, then we changed to ASU (all in last 12 years or so). For combat uniform, we have had deserts, BDUs, ACUs, and now multicams. Keep in mind that every combat uniform change means concurrent changes in TA50 and all of the supporting gear. I would rather focus on curing the illness (changing uniforms every 5 years) then on treating a symptom (should officers receive a uniform allowance during each uniform change). As a taxpayer, this is fraud, waste, and abuse.

Response by COL Randall C. made Nov 9 at 2014 4:25 PM

2014-11-09T16:25:29-05:00

I believe a mixture of yes and no. Should ALL officers get a clothing allowance? No. Should the junior officers get one? Yes.

As CSM Michael J. Uhlig pointed out, there is a significant pay gap between different ranks, but don't lump the younger company grades with the older field grades.

Maybe the solution is to have a "base pay cutoff". If $5k/month was used as the cutoff, then all enlisted up to E7 and E8s with less than 22 years would be covered (I don't mentioned E9s because I'm not sure if any with less than 14 years are out there). Additionally, W1s, W2s with less than 18 years, 1LTs and 2LTs would also be covered (and a very small windows for CPTs).

Adjust the cutoff to whatever figure works for the bean counters (E9s max out at $7,500 a month base pay .. that would include O1s-O4s and W1s-W4s) and bump it up with annual increases in base pay.

Strictly from a financial point of view, expecting a junior officer to have to buy all his uniforms again doesn't make any sense.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 5:05 PM

2014-11-09T17:05:57-05:00

Personally I don't think they should because officers make significantly more money then enlisted do. So even if there is a uniform change they should still have to pay for it themselves.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 6:14 PM

2014-11-09T18:14:08-05:00

Maybe not a full allowance but a partial one. Officers do make quite a bit of money. The cost of the new uniforms is probably part of the reason you have a transition period to move from the old uniform to the new uniform. It may not be possible to go out and buy all new uniforms all at once, but if you bought a pair of pants here and a coat there, it's probably pretty manageable.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 7:01 PM

2014-11-09T19:01:48-05:00

If the Army mandates a uniform change, they should provide a couple of uniforms to officers as an initial issue. The quality and durability of the current ACU is terrible in my opinion with the Velcro staring to wear out after several months of daily use. It becomes expensive constantly replacing uniforms out of pocket, even as an officer. The camouflage pattern of the current ACU is good if one is planning to hide in the gravel at a FOB, and the Velcro makes noise discipline an issue in the field. Hopefully the Velcro disappears in the new uniform and they go back to buttons like the BDU.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 9:38 PM

2014-11-09T21:38:39-05:00

I believe that when there is a uniform change, the member should either get a one time stipend to cover the purchase or an initial issue.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 6:00 PM

2014-11-11T18:00:46-05:00

As was stated by a few people previously, I feel that a wholesale change like the ones coming should be treated as initial enlistment or at least prorated. With the exception of my ASU, I will be replacing all of my uniforms. Yes, I am a RC Soldier, but I am in a position that I am on prolonged periods of ADOS. I am not asking for full issue/allowance as I had when I was Enlisted, just enough to get restarted.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 8:27 PM

2014-11-11T20:27:59-05:00

No, because the payscale diverges massively. I did the math on paying back a $10k enlistment bonus for Green-to-Gold and I realized that, even after deducting clothing allowance and lesser BAS, I'd still make it back within less than a year.

BAS, BAH, and clothing allowance are Congress' way of offering the equivalent civilian reimbursement that occurs in a realistic economy through wages that account for such business expenses. The Officer payscale is a lot closer to the civilian wages.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 8:16 AM

2015-03-16T08:16:57-04:00

Why are officers paid more? What are we being compensated for?

When you answer that question, you see my logic. Making us pay for something that's mandatory is basically reducing our pay by the cost of the uniform items.

Meanwhile, you get situations like when I was two units ago a Section OIC, and my section NCOIC was a SGT. He knew two battle assemblies in advance that we were having a dress uniform inspection, and showed up in ACUs with the excuse that his greens still had PFC rank on them. Yes, you read that right, not SPC, PF-freaking-C. I wasn't allowed to counsel him.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made May 4 at 2017 8:00 AM

2017-05-04T08:00:33-04:00

I'm in the no camp on this as well. Mandatory uniform changes are nothing new for the military. Can't even remember how many I went through but there was always a phase in period, in the Air Force anyways. Also agree that the pay difference between enlisted and officer is a good reason that officers should not get a uniform allowance for mandatory uniform changes.

Response by PO2 Kevin Parker made May 4 at 2017 11:01 PM

2017-05-04T23:01:38-04:00

Being retired Navy and seeing all of the uniform changes I'd have to agree with Maj Ian Dews. In my time I saw a lot of changes in our uniforms, that the clothing allowance didn't even come close to the cost of those changes. As enlisted I know the price of our uniforms, especially dress uniforms were pricey. I know the Officers and Chiefs paid dearly for their uniforms. So I especially agree when the whole uniform core is changed!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2017 5:30 PM

2017-05-06T17:30:27-04:00

My answer would be only if enlisted get a one time allowance when u inform changes are mandated. This whole discussion is about officers getting an allowance when the army changes its mind on new uniforms. Enlisted should also. I believe anytime the army mandates a new uniform every service member should receive a limp sum to purchase the items for your clothing bag. Before anyone says anything I understand enlisted receive a yearly clothing allowance and officers don't. I am not counting that money because that is something enlisted would revive regardless of new uniforms or not. That is to pay for replacement of current clothing bag items. Boots, shoes, shirts, socks and worn out uniforms. Why enlisted get this annual pay and officers don't would be another discussion.

So again to answer the OP. No I don't think officers should revive a one time allowance for new uniforms. I think all Service Members should.

Response by LTC John Wilson made May 8 at 2017 9:28 AM

2017-05-08T09:28:32-04:00

If we're going to Radicaly change the uniform every 6 to 18 months, then YES. Officers (especially on Reserve duty) should be reimbursed for the new changes. And the Good Idea Fairies that mandate such turbulence should be made to pay it out of THEIR hides.