Should Post Commanders be allowed to make uniform rules on post?

2017-07-16T18:26:01-04:00

I'm at AT in California. The weather is easily 100°+ everyday and we were authorized by our commander to not wear our blouses because it's Heat CAT 5. However, some MG made the decision from his air conditioned office that we are required to wear our blouses regardless of temperature due to danger of sunburn. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't heat stroke more dangerous? What are your thoughts?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 6:30 PM

2017-07-16T18:30:58-04:00

Good luck.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Jul 16 at 2017 6:32 PM

2017-07-16T18:32:38-04:00

They have for as long as I can remember! At least your not required to wear full battle rattle whenever your outside your hootch including Latrine visits! 100 plus degrees eh? Be glad it's only for the duration of AT. Try 7-15 months without a day off with sleeves down 100% of the time. Welcome to a brief test of the real Army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 6:37 PM

2017-07-16T18:37:12-04:00

Had that issue at North Fort Hood back in 2013. They didn't want us taking off our blouses on the flight line.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jul 16 at 2017 6:46 PM

2017-07-16T18:46:00-04:00

You are actually more at risk with the blouse off. The exposed skin will burn, compounding your problems. If you are reasonably fit, stay hydrated, eat balanced meals, and observe some work-rest cycles you will be fine. This take your blouse off stuff comes and goes. You are better off sleeves down trousers unbloused.

I have operated for years in heat cat 5 environments. Fort Irwin, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Fort Bragg among others. It ain't the boogey man. You must adapt to it and function in it.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jul 16 at 2017 6:46 PM

2017-07-16T18:46:31-04:00

Generally yes, but local commanders may use discretion based on mission requirements.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jul 16 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-07-16T19:00:07-04:00

AR 670
1–6. Authority
b. ......."Authority Unless specified in this regulation, the commander issuing the clothing and individual equipment will establish wear policies for organizational clothing and individual equipment."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 7:15 PM

2017-07-16T19:15:43-04:00

Commanders at all levels can change the uniform to meet the situation.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 7:24 PM

2017-07-16T19:24:38-04:00

It's heat cat 5 everyday in Iraq right now and I am not worried about unblousing my pants. Rules are rules. If you go outside your immediate work area then I would say blouse your pants. If around the AO and it was said it's okay then go for it.

Response by SSG Ronald Bihr made Jul 16 at 2017 7:30 PM

2017-07-16T19:30:07-04:00

Didn't like the answer, so looking for some support, that the answer is wrong. We all have done, & will do things that we don't like. Working with your Blouses on, won't kill you, uncomfortable yes, but good leaders will ensure that you are taken care-of. It will be a learning experience for you, learn all you can before that deployment comes your way. Good Luck with your career.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 7:52 PM

2017-07-16T19:52:08-04:00

Man, you are making me miss the Army. What a great question. Where are all the CSMs. Get the defib out. I'm ready to get my kit on and put in some Copenhagen and fly out to Camp Roberts for the fun. Ok here goes, my advice is to completely blow of the General in the air conditioned building. What does he know anyway. Also, remember another General (4 banger) stated that you could disobey orders. So, everyone needs to unblouse and get comfortable. Also, get your Commander to contact the General on his 9 Line. Also, get on FB and contact Army WTF with pictures of your entire unit following your own standards. (I'll be watching WTF when you get famous).

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jul 16 at 2017 8:00 PM

2017-07-16T20:00:11-04:00

But he has to go out on the golf course.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 10:04 PM

2017-07-16T22:04:47-04:00

Sorry. But you are going to get very little sympathy from me on this one. I was stationed at FT Irwin for 3 years. For the first year, we were allowed to wear our sleeves up during the summer months. Then, in the second year I was there, it was made Post Policy that everyone wears sleeves down regardless of time of year. At first, we all hated this notion. But, after becoming Prev Med, I now embrace this philosophy. Having sleeves down and tops on, while it sucks, protects you better than working with sleeves up/tops off. Unless you can guarantee that every single Soldier will be applying sun block 30 minutes before exiting their tents to start the day and re-applying every hour on all exposed skin (which will take away from mission). Because not every Soldier will remember to re-apply their sun block.

Also, as long as you are following the established guidelines of water consummation and the proper work/rest cycle (mission permitting), then the chances of heat stroke are actually diminished than what they would be if Soldiers are allowed to work with their tops off all day.

Another thing, that MG has earned the right to make those decisions from that air conditioned office. You don't have to like the decision that was made, but you better follows those orders given.

Response by PFC Justin Edelmayer made Jul 16 at 2017 10:27 PM

2017-07-16T22:27:16-04:00

I had to wear mine in a conex in Iraq in 100+ weather. It sucks... But as LTC Mackay said.. there are things that you can do to be safe from the suck

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made Jul 16 at 2017 10:43 PM

2017-07-16T22:43:14-04:00

You un-blouse your boots and unbutton your sleeves in heat cat 5 in TRADOC. Permanent party for some reason don't need to. Perhaps they are drinking enough water? Follow the work/ rest cycle and you will be fine.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2017 10:50 PM

2017-07-16T22:50:14-04:00

if not them who some one buried deep inside the puzzle palace? seems like what ever NCO is on site should make the decision for the good of the troops

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 12:46 AM

2017-07-17T00:46:42-04:00

He did. That is the way things go. There are many reasons that a uniform may be changed. The CG said wear your blouse so wear your blouse and move out.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 11:21 AM

2017-07-17T11:21:25-04:00

As stated already, blouses on is better for you AND the mission than blouses off. No one will have a heat stroke if they are drinking enough water and resting as prescribed.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jul 17 at 2017 1:40 PM

2017-07-17T13:40:32-04:00

Listen, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy from guys (particularly those who are/were Active Duty) who've spent time in places like Iraq, Kuwait, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Irvin, Ft. Huachuca, Ft. Benning, Vietnam or any number of hot places the military likes to hang out at.

I get where your post is coming from though; its hot, you're not acclimated it, you're busting your ass out in the duty sun and its frustrating. And sometimes it just feels better to bitch about things, even when you can't change them. Venting is not unusual, but not always helpful.

There are times & tasks when shedding the top layer is fine--even helpful--but after having spent a little time in such sunny, warm places, I can tell you that I'd rather have my top on most of the time--perhaps cuffs unbloused--than not to wear it. Sure, it's an extra layer, but its a layer that protects your skin! If you're out in the sun, you want that!

Given enough time in such a sunny, hot place, you'll start to come around to why the decisions made are as they are, and not be too judgmental about those sitting in air conditioned offices. It's easy to not see that those in the offices today have been out in the heat plenty over the span of their careers.

Remember, this is the Army, even if its only part-time Army for you (right now-never know when you might get called up). We train as we fight and all too often we fight in some hot and nasty places. Just relax a bit. Drink water. Find shade when you can.

May as well embrace the suck; it aint going away anytime soon.

Response by Omar Kapanadze made Jul 17 at 2017 5:08 PM

2017-07-17T17:08:17-04:00

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Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 18 at 2017 2:18 AM

2017-07-18T02:18:05-04:00

Post Commanders have the privilege of setting the uniform - they may delegate the authority down to their brigade commanders, but they have the final say - there are regulations regarding heat index - and work to rest ratio - but you are more likely to suffer sunburn and heat exhaustion with your blouse off - your blouse will soak up your sweat and keep your skin cooler, as opposed to directly evaporation from your skin from direct sunlight.

Response by Joey Damir made Jul 18 at 2017 11:11 PM

2017-07-18T23:11:18-04:00

Response by Cadet 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2017 6:06 PM

2017-07-24T18:06:03-04:00

yes

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 25 at 2017 4:48 PM

2017-07-25T16:48:40-04:00

1.) I've gathered in my brief time in service that GOs can do pretty much whatever they want.
2.) I was taught in Field Sanitation class that sunburn results in dehydration which can accelerate the more serious heat injuries.
3.) "No good decision was ever made from a swivel chair." Or, so I've heard.