Should QMP receive early retirement?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 19:27:48 -0400

I was told that QMP'd Soldiers receive an early retirement. If they did not do the 20 years to retire and were being forced out do you think that they should be given early retirement? Do you think they should just receive their Reserves retirement if they earned that if they are in the USAR?

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 1 at 2014 7:32 PM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 19:32:26 -0400

My understanding is that currently would only happen if they already have hit the 18 years of qualifying service mark. I may be wrong, but that's the way it works for the latest round round of at least the OSB/ERB. I would assume QMP would be the same.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2014 8:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 20:00:06 -0400

I have a lovely power point slide show on my work computer about TERA, QMP and QSP. I will be sure to share it with you tomorrow when I return.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jun 1 at 2014 11:55 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 23:55:33 -0400

QSP'd NCOs may qualify for early retirement (TERA)

QMP'd NCOs do not qualify for early retirement (TERA)

Title 10 USC, 12686a. Commonly referred to as “18 year lock in”, “Sanctuary” is the term that is used for Reserve Component (RC) Soldiers who are mobilized, and have achieved at least 18 years, but less than 20 years of Active Federal Service (AFS). RC Soldiers are required to apply for sanctuary and may be retained by law until they reach 20 years AFS when they become eligible for retirement pay.

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Jun 2 at 2014 6:36 PM

CSM Mike Maynard — Mon, 02 Jun 2014 18:36:55 -0400

- QMPs have misconduct/mal-performance at their current grade, they don't consider misconduct/mal-performance at previous grade

- getting QMP'd means you are being fired

- QMPs do not receive early retirement (TERA)

- Why would we grant a retirement to someone who has had recent misconduct/mal-performance?

- Why would we give the same benefits to someone who has had recent misconduct/mal-performance and to those that served honorably?

Response by SFC Laura Whitehead made Jun 2 at 2014 7:58 PM

SFC Laura Whitehead — Mon, 02 Jun 2014 19:58:58 -0400

I recommend reading Memo: MEMORANDUM FOR SEE DISTRIBUTION Subject: Army Directive 2014-06 (Qualitative Management Program)
Par. 19-10. a.

I was a RIF (Reduction In Forces). Four of us recruiters where told thank you for your time, but we don't need you any more. This was 2011, and I retired 2012 w/ 20yr. 21d. Fair with the draw down as we need less soldiers in the pipeline. I just hated people looking at me like I was a loser. Others ask "what do you have in your records.." like it is a QMP. I don't mind now because I made it to the other side of the wall. Most of my peers are now facing getting out. I enlisted 150 soldiers and now work as an Employment Transition Coordinator for service members keeping the promise that military experience makes you marketable on the outside.

One of the recruiters was the top in the nation for the last 3 years, one was just promoted to MSG, one was a NCOIC, and then myself. I am glad the others were as high-speed so I could at least say "Hey they got rid of all the best..." and some of the ones they kept is another story. In the end it came down to what MOS/MTOE slot you held. This was an Active Service Management Board for the Army Guard. I need to update my info on RallyPoint, but I was active duty Army for 12 years (title 10) and active duty guard for 8 (Title 32). Two of the soldiers went back on title 10 orders with the Active Duty Army. Two of us just got out and started our civilian lives. Someone has to go and open up slots for the younger soldiers...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2014 8:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jun 2014 20:19:33 -0400

Most active duty members involuntarily separated from active duty are eligible for separation pay if they have served at least 6 years and no more than 18.
There are two types of pay: (1) Full Pay and (2) Half Pay. However, if someone is fortunate to get separation pay, there is a drawback which I've seen is the service member is not told that if he/she puts in a disability claim with the VA, all that separation pay must be paid back to the govt before the VA can disburse any monies for the claim. Side note, I thought service members with a minimum of 17 years, 9 months of active Federal service at the time of notification of QMP selection, who choose not to appeal, will be retained to 20-year retirement eligibility upon request? this doesn't appear to be changed since 2011 but also included in the updated QMP policy are SSGs being looked at regardless of years of federal service.

Response by SFC Felix Burgos-Figueroa made Dec 27 at 2014 5:33 PM

SFC Felix Burgos-Figueroa — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 17:33:31 -0500

To answer your question. Yes, some NCOs who are QMPed should be entitled to TERA on a ETP case by case basis.

Not all QMPed Soldiers should be allowed to request TERA. Remember, not every Soldier being selected to be put out under QMP is a shit bag. Every case is unique. Some Soldiers are being QMPed for having a "NO" in one of the Army value blocks but the rest of their NCOER is stellar. And no they do not have any other negative documents in their AMHRR.

Of course NCOs with founded EO, SHARP or any other illegal activity investigations should not be given the opportunity to request TERA.

Just remember not everyone being reviewed for QMP should be labeled the same. Some fell victim to toxic leadership. Some NCOs unfortunately have fallen victim to various mental and behavioral health disorders that they received down range while fighting for our Army/government. These disorders have left many NCOs unable to lead and perform their duties in a manner consistent with garrison rules and regulations. Instead of MEB/PEBing all of these Soldiers the Army gave many of these NCOs the boot with no disability benefits. Remember, it you chapter a Soldier under chapters 5-13 or 5-17 or even a chapter 14 they do not receive any type of disability. You're basically throwing them out on street to fend for themselves. SUICIDE LATELY??? The ones who were not MEB, PEB or chaptered are still lingering around only to be victim yet again but to QMP this time.

Also if you've never received a negative NCOER, GOMAR or any other derogatory documents in your file then you have no idea what it feels like to be in those NCOs boots. Good for you!!! Great job!!! That doesn't mean you're not a shit bag. They're plenty of shitty NCOs out there who have never received negative paper. On the flip side some of the best SGMs and other senior leaders we have serving today and in the past have seen a negative piece of paper or two in their day.

If it weren't for budget issues we wouldn't be having this problem. The Army used and abused us during war but now that we're no longer needed they create every board possible to quickly get rid of junior enlisted, NCOs and officers. Where is the governments' loyalty to us? Maybe the Army should get a "NO" in their Army Values block.

Create an exception to policy so QMPed Soldiers can apply for TERA and stop screwing us over!!!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 11:11 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 23:11:36 -0400

Sir,

QMPs Soldiers are not eligible for TERA. But many QMP'd Soldiers can still receive retirement pay based upon how much AFS they have, if they hit a certain mark, they will be allowed to stay until they obtain 20 years of qualifying service for retirement. There are some variables and options depending upon how much service you actually have, types of service, reserve component, active duty, etc. I do think its unfair to Soldiers being QSP'd (too many Soldiers in the inventory) to not give them the same options as those the Army is saying has performance or standards issues.(QMP). The Army is downsizing, some quality Soldiers will lose the job as a result, and that sucks, but I think we could do a better job of compensating people dependent upon their separation criteria.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 11 at 2015 12:33 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:33:58 -0400

Yes but I have no clue the minimum years for early retirement.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Dec 17 at 2015 6:10 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:10:26 -0500

yes they should they put there asses on line just like anyone else but came up short which I think that is bullshit.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Feb 16 at 2016 12:46 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:46:50 -0500

I stumbled into this Army Times article that states soldiers selected for separation under QMP will not receive TERA. The exception is if they are over 18 years. Thank you SGM Matthew Quick for mentioning QMP vs QSP.

We want the best for Soldiers who served honorable even if there was a mistake early in their careers. Mistakes = learning. Unfortunately there is a machine full of rules and polices that govern who gets the golden egg and who does not.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2016/02/15/army-ncos-forced-out-boards-must-leave-within-7-months/79302356/

Army NCOs forced out by boards must leave within 7 months

Board review will include a soldier's restricted file.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2016 8:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 20:50:17 -0500

yes

Response by SSG Ryan Moore made Mar 1 at 2016 11:16 AM

SSG Ryan Moore — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 11:16:11 -0500

So update to my situation... My request to stay in on the grounds on the pending removal of a NCOER from almost 4 years ago was denied because it did not fit their criteria as pending removal of documentation does not constitute as newly discovered evidence. So there goes over 17 1/2 years of my life down with no retirement!! The only hope is that this document will be removed before my departure date.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 12:06 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 00:06:20 -0400

QMP Soldiers do not Qualify for TERRA but QSP Soldiers do. AT least that is what I was told last
week from HRC.