Should Sergeants Major pay grades be commensurate with their positions like Generals?

2014-08-04T22:20:28-04:00

General officer ranks are appointments with stars based on their levels of position. We had an O6 go straight to O8 because of the position. To me it makes no sense that this is not the same with our Sergeants Majors. I mean it blows my mind to think that a Battalion S3 SGM is the same pay grade as the Advisor to the Joint Chief of Staff. It seems severely unbalanced. I think the ranks should be much like Generals, i.e. Brigade CSM.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 10:46 PM

2014-08-04T22:46:12-04:00

We've had SPCs act as squad leaders in my company at one point and others hold the position of "Shammer." There should be a pay difference there as well.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Aug 4 at 2014 11:33 PM

2014-08-04T23:33:44-04:00

I know that some Sergeants Major in the MC get Special Duty pay just not sure where that starts GySgt Private RallyPoint Member do you know. Also we seperate between our E9 ranks and have Master Gunnery Sergeant and Sergeant Major. Sergeants major are the Senior Enlisted Advisor at BN Commander or higher while MGySgts are the duty experts in their field.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 8:31 AM

2014-08-05T08:31:56-04:00

I say leave the pay grades, However, I would include some kind of special duty assignment pay to those CSMs that find themselves at echelons above Brigade or perhaps Division.

Thoughts SGM Matthew Quick ?

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 9:10 AM

2014-08-05T09:10:31-04:00

There is no reason why your pay shouldn't be based on your job. I totally think that SGM should have some sort of pay scale based on their jobs not only because its fair but it could make them strive harder to earn better position instead of plateauing and becoming content in the fact that they have max their pay.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 11:12 AM

2014-08-05T11:12:02-04:00

Advisors to JCoS, and Command Sergeants Major should, in my eyes, be compensated for their positions. I also feel that a First Sergeant should be compensated higher than that of a MSG, as well as a CPL over a SPC. Maybe Big Army could create a special pay for these ranks of a monthly stipend similar to that of Jump Pay. A CPL could receive $50-$100/month, 1SG $100-$250/month, and a CSM $250-$300/month. Something should be done along those lines to provide the leadership position more compensation than those just holding rank.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 12:37 PM

2014-08-05T12:37:15-04:00

Are you nucking futs? These individuals are there to provide a link back to the troops - not cater to the Generals / Admirals.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-08-05T12:56:07-04:00

@ SSG Robert burns

CSM's already get SDAP:

(5) Command sergeants major whose raters and senior raters are all GOs or senior executive service (SES)
equivalent. If rater is––
(a)
Brigadier general, SD–1 is authorized.
(b)
Major general, SD–2 is authorized.
(c)
Lieutenant general, SD–3 is authorized.
(d)
General, SD–4 is authorized

Straight out of AR 614-200

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 5 at 2014 3:55 PM

2014-08-05T15:55:55-04:00

Leave as is but have special dispensations/compensations for their positions.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-08-05T16:04:47-04:00

I think the paygrade should be all the same, several of you have suggested that they have a special pay and I agree. A Force or Fleet Master Chief has a much larger area of responsibility that a Master Chief who is a CMC or even a SEL. An allowence would make the selection board even more competitive for those Senior Enlisted that aspire to make it to those positions.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 5 at 2014 4:06 PM

2014-08-05T16:06:17-04:00

Honestly, I would like to see an E-10 grade. Keep E-9 for BN and BDE level positions (tactical), but E-10 for Div and higher (strategic). Those SGMs and CSMs working at the strategic levels really do a have a quantum leap in responsibilty and oversight over fellow CSMs at the more tactical levels.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Aug 5 at 2014 5:02 PM

2014-08-05T17:02:57-04:00

because of the CSM in front C sgt major unless that Sg major got position required to be CSM

Response by SFC Robin Gates made Aug 5 at 2014 7:03 PM

2014-08-05T19:03:16-04:00

Leave it alone! No use starting power trips, we all know, there's enough of those around!

Response by COL Randall C. made Aug 5 at 2014 8:12 PM

2014-08-05T20:12:23-04:00

??

SSG Robert Burns, I must have missed that one. Who was the COL that skipped BG and was promoted to MG? BG and MG are permanent ranks and BGs have a 1 year TIG requirement before being eligible for promotion.

LTG and GEN positions are as you described (based on position), and POTUS does have the authority to promote a COL to LTG or GEN (T10 only says you have to be an O6 or above), but it's doubtful he would ever do that in all but the most VERY bizarre circumstances.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Aug 6 at 2014 12:10 AM

2014-08-06T00:10:42-04:00

As a Command Master Chief who did tours at 4 different Commands (two ships) and even put in for Force Master Chief once at the urging of both my CO and the retiring FMC I would tend to feel that we are all Master Chiefs and should get the same pay. Yes, it would have been nice to get some special allowances for my uniforms and even for some of the entertaining I felt obligated to do at times, but there was no real need for it.

Would I have turned down any extra pay, no. Would more pay have made me try harder for these positions, heck no. I applied for the job because I loved working with people and representing them, not for the money or the power. I cannot imagine a successful CMC/CSM doing the ob for more pay. If he or she does, find someone else fast!

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 3:46 AM

2014-08-06T03:46:55-04:00

For the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, Chief Master Sergeant of the AF, Sergeant Major of the Army or Marine Corps or Senior Enlisted Advisor of the JCS, basic pay is $7,816.20.

SSgt Gregory Guina Pulled from the 2014 pay chart.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 2:01 PM

2014-08-10T14:01:45-04:00

E-9s are underpaid as it is. I'd hate to see them whittled down as a result of this, which is the way I see it ending up. It would be an excuse to limit the "supergrades" to staff, fleet, or force levels.

Now, if we made an E-10 that was legitimately only for senior enlisted advisers, I could see that. Instead of Command Master Chief being one MCPO among many on a CVN, he would the the only of his grade.

Ironically, that would be a distinction NOT shared by his CO - who is one of many Captains on a CVN - a few of whom have been commanding officers in their own right.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 4:17 PM

2014-08-10T16:17:54-04:00

Absolutely. I also think that there should be an E10-E14 rank structure. All CSM's know and respect their "superiors," but damn...this could be a lot easier. Is there any other rank that has this problem? Maybe Corporal. The CSM branch in the Army is changing the way they do business now with the CSL and assignment processes. I think it's time to up the ante and make nominative jobs commensurate with their rank and pay. One problem with this is the possible back and forth from OPS SGM jobs to CSM jobs. Would you go from being an E-10 to an E-9 because you went from a BDE CSM job to a Corps S3 SGM job? That would suck. Don't know how to crack that egg, but I bet someone could figure it out.

Response by 1SG Rich Martinez made Aug 10 at 2014 4:51 PM

2014-08-10T16:51:02-04:00

Only at the Nominative level and working for General Officers.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-08-14T12:51:22-04:00

This is a tough one, because I think Sergeants Major -and enlisted personnel in general - deserve more money anyway.

Should an O-6 who works for the C,JCS receive more money than an O-6 elsewhere? Officers rotate into the Pentagon, serve a tour, and go back to the field to "broaden" them. There are fewer NCOs in the pentagon than officers, most of them will also try to rotate back to a field assignment so part of me feels there should not be different pay grades for E-9s. However, there are some NCOs who, once going to a senior position will not go back to the field.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-08-14T12:56:17-04:00

I could live with the creation of E-10 but only for the Master Chief of the Navy, Chief Master Sergeant of the AF and the Sergeant Majors of the Army and MC. Only because they are the senior leaders of our enlisted. Other then that it should stay the same. I agree with CMDCM Gene Treants statement.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Aug 14 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-08-14T15:22:27-04:00

Each enlisted service chief gets special pay because of the position that's about it. I found this on the DFAS Website

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Aug 15 at 2014 8:07 AM

2014-08-15T08:07:15-04:00

I think overall NCOs need a pay raise all too often in the technical civil side the NCOs can make more money, and this means we lose some of our best and brightest to the private sector. yeah I know no one joins the military to get rich but the gap between NCO and the private sector has gotten too high especially for the technical fields.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 12:07 PM

2014-08-15T12:07:58-04:00

I agree!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 8:26 PM

2014-08-15T20:26:18-04:00

I personally don't feel that Sergeant Major's or their equivalent counterparts in our sister-services need additional compensation just because they may/may not serve in an advisory capacity. They are at the top of their career fields and in theory can walk into any senior leadership position and make decisions. They are already making $81,732 (if on active duty). That does not include BAH/BAS which is probably another $2300 a month.

Every day I hear the term "fiscally constrained operating environment". Talks of commissaries being shuttered; cuts to tuition assistance; 1% pay raises (because we all know we are compensated better than our civilian counterparts) and so on. Additional compensation for those in pay grade E9 - while only a tiny portion of the overall personnel budget - would send the wrong message.

What do you tell the Staff Sergeant who fills in for the Platoon Sergeant for six months? What do you tell the Sergeant First Class who fills in for a vacant First Sergeant position for close to a year? How do you compensate the Specialist who gets slotted into an NCO position - does the work - but does not receive the compensation or recognition for doing the job outside of his paygrade?

No, we don't need to be rewarding those at the very top with extra money for something that is fully expected of them by the nature of their rank, experience, and position.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Nov 9 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-11-09T11:29:22-05:00

CSM nominative positions are already on a different pay scale than CSM that serve at the Brigade level and below.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2018 10:48 PM

2018-06-29T22:48:00-04:00

I don’t understand the question? It seems like most people are justifying the extra grade so that subordinates will listen to the CSM? But most NCOs who interact with the CSM don’t work for the CSM, aren’t rated by the CSM and have a commander to answer to and are rated by one? So why the need for “greater influence”? At the end of the day, being a Senior Enlisted Adviser is a pretty sweet gig. Where do these positions exist in the civilian sector? They don’t. I found it challenging at times to balance the respect for the CSM while reminding them that my 1SG worked for me and that the CSM should be advising or sharing experiences not directing and making policy...just my two cents.

Response by SGT Jimmy Howard made Oct 4 at 2018 8:29 PM

2018-10-04T20:29:30-04:00

Hell yea. If anybody earned it ol' Smage has defenitly earned it.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 17 at 2018 4:52 PM

2018-10-17T16:52:37-04:00

Nominative Sergeants Major are compensated by allowing them to serve for extended periods of time, which leads to an increased retirement. If you hit 40 years, its 100%. Sergeants Major may serve until 30 years of service.

http://www.armyreenlistment.com/rcp.html

2. Command sergeants major (CSMs) and sergeants major (SGMs) (at Headquarters, Department of the Army and Army Commands) serving in nominative positions where the CSM/SGM is rated by a general officer, member of the Senior Executive Service or equivalent, or serving as CSM at the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy or as Executive Officer to the Sergeant Major of the Army are authorized to serve beyond 30 years total active service while serving in the position. The Vice Chief of Staff of the Army must approve exceptions for operational reasons. Upon leaving a position which authorizes service beyond 30 years, NCOs who have not applied for retirement will be classified using special reporting code 09U (see note 4)

I would not mind seeing an E9 G grade, for nominative Sergeants Major.

Retention Control Points (RCP)

Retention control points (RCP) are the maximum amount of years of active service, an enlisted Soldier can serve before they must either get promoted or leave the active Army.