Should service members, who have a carry permit, be allowed to carry on posts or bases?

2016-05-29T23:52:44-04:00

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made May 29 at 2016 11:58 PM

2016-05-29T23:58:41-04:00

Yes

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made May 30 at 2016 12:00 AM

2016-05-30T00:00:55-04:00

Yes, and one might suggest the uniform possessed by those on post should more than qualify as a "permit" either on, or off post

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 30 at 2016 12:12 AM

2016-05-30T00:12:31-04:00

YES! We are trusted to carry guns in other people's countries.

Response by SPC Carlos R. made May 30 at 2016 12:20 AM

2016-05-30T00:20:38-04:00

Absolutely.

Response by SCPO Joshua I made May 30 at 2016 12:47 AM

2016-05-30T00:47:44-04:00

Find me the requirement for a permit in the second amendment and we can talk.

Response by SrA Diego Alvarez made May 30 at 2016 1:12 AM

2016-05-30T01:12:25-04:00

They should be able to carry when in uniform at all times even without permit. You are a walking target when you wear that uniform, and as such, you should be able to defend yourself if warranted.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made May 30 at 2016 1:15 AM

2016-05-30T01:15:06-04:00

No, I've seen too many troops unable to control their mouths and fists. a uniform doesn't mean you have discipline let alone know to handle your temper. What would be a reason to carry on post? What is the threat?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 1:47 AM

2016-05-30T01:47:32-04:00

Heck yeah. I live off post and i cant even go on post with my weapon. So i would have to go home to drop off my weapon just to come back to go on post. They should let you keep your firearm at home also if you live on post.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 2:04 AM

2016-05-30T02:04:29-04:00

I suppose it doesn't matter if they have a permit regardless as long as the permit is recognized by the state they are in. If the state and federal government recognize your right to carry, there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to.

Response by SFC Robert Bower made May 30 at 2016 2:49 AM

2016-05-30T02:49:28-04:00

Yes definitely but I think there should be a rank or age limit. You never know what some disgruntled private will do with it....

Response by SFC Trevor Wilkinson made May 30 at 2016 3:34 AM

2016-05-30T03:34:07-04:00

Sir,
Absolutely!!
But, I feel that the Provost Marshall of the Service members current Duty Station should have the right to conduct a further investigation prior to granting the Service member the authorization to carry on ANY Military post or Installation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 6:06 AM

2016-05-30T06:06:45-04:00

I'm for it, provided that they have a perjury from their local state if available and have undergone sufficient training for installation use. You've got to know the laws and be proficient.

Response by SPC Nathan Barnes made May 30 at 2016 6:09 AM

2016-05-30T06:09:16-04:00

i say yes all Military personnel should be able to carrie so that they can protect and defend for they gave an oath to do so
no ifs and or buts about it should issue a national license once finish basic training and AIT

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 7:04 AM

2016-05-30T07:04:49-04:00

Regardless, the 2nd Amendment guarantees this right. We are also sworn to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States. There should be no doubts about carry on and off the installation. I can understand procedure and training for all service members which we get in BCT and is reinforced through out ones tenure in the military.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made May 30 at 2016 7:42 AM

2016-05-30T07:42:26-04:00

Why? On a daily basis I cannot remember a time when walking the streets of America the beautiful I thought, "man I wish I was packing". Having said that, "you don't need a gun until you really need a gun!" Should someone have a carry permit simply based on military service? What will be the ROE?? Would this allowance give the carrier some sort of pseudo legal status?? The problem is too many guns in the hands of criminals and idiots, or idiot criminals, as the case may be.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made May 30 at 2016 8:41 AM

2016-05-30T08:41:44-04:00

How would that mitigate the threat?

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made May 30 at 2016 10:02 AM

2016-05-30T10:02:53-04:00

I wish they would. I carry in my pickup all the time and sometimes I forget to remove the weapon when I go on base. I was stopped once last year for a random search of my vehicle. I told the security police about the pistol. They gave me a verbal warning and sent me on my way. Now, I try to make a point to leave the pistol at home when I go to base.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 10:55 AM

2016-05-30T10:55:05-04:00

The Army Reserve is arming stand alone buildings. That is a start.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made May 30 at 2016 11:03 AM

2016-05-30T11:03:47-04:00

I have mixed feelings about this. I am entirely in favor of the 2nd Amendment and the right for legal U.S. citizens who are not criminals and who are not mentally disturbed, to carry a firearm. When I enter a military base I'm subject to a gate entry check by trained police, which gives me an additional measure of security I don't enjoy in my off-post community. Out in the civilian community there is no routine check of most people unless someone is stopped by the police for traffic or some possible violation. So, I understand that the base military police would have more to consider if we allow firearms carry permits on post. But I do believe that we each have the right to defend ourselves with a firearm. Mixed feelings....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 11:06 AM

2016-05-30T11:06:33-04:00

Yes. If you can't trust me to carry a weapon, then don't train me to carry one.

Response by SPC Terry Martin made May 30 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-05-30T11:58:06-04:00

Absolutely, After they check in at the gate so we know who's carrying.

Response by SPC Kevin Busto made May 30 at 2016 2:29 PM

2016-05-30T14:29:55-04:00

Why would an active duty service member need a state issued concealed/carry permit?

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made May 30 at 2016 3:30 PM

2016-05-30T15:30:51-04:00

YES

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made May 30 at 2016 3:47 PM

2016-05-30T15:47:33-04:00

I don't know about other states, but in CA the Adjutant General issued a directive a few months back stating that is a Service Member in the ARNG or AFNG possessed a civilian credential/CCW it would be permissible to carry on post.

The directive was not authorizing a CCW. The directive merely allowed state/civilian law to be applicable on the states military installations.

The base J-3 then implemented the plan that is a Service Member was going to carry concealed on post that they would have to attend an ROE/UOF briefing, provide copies of all credentialing, and agree to assist in any active shooter event that (God forbid) took place. The Service Member must also declare any and all firearms to the gate MPs upon entering the base wherein they would be noted as on post.

However, there are several holes in the process and system....

There is basically NO guidance on any troop deployment or RP should an active shooter event take place (obviously if you're in the vicinity make contact, engage, and eliminate the target). Neither is there a comms plan in place to coordinate any troop movements. Again there is no general alarm to sound or comms plan in place to notify the general population of the post.

There's some holes....

Ironically I am in the process of writing an SOP on the topic for my unit.

If you have any experience or input it would be greatly appreciated (here or via private message)

V/R,
2LT LOOMIS

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made May 30 at 2016 4:35 PM

2016-05-30T16:35:37-04:00

Posts have had issues with this one in the past. So the answer will always be no. It would be nice to do so.

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made May 30 at 2016 4:38 PM

2016-05-30T16:38:32-04:00

This question brings the Fort Hood shooting to mind. I won't even mention the name of that goat inseminator but, he would have gotten off a lot fewer shots if the real Soldiers had been armed. Also, we probably wouldn't be paying to feed, clothe, and provide medical attention to him because he would be DEAD.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 30 at 2016 8:38 PM

2016-05-30T20:38:07-04:00

Everyone on uniform? No, Everyone that has a state issued CHL? Yes

Response by SGT Wayne Coulter made May 31 at 2016 12:42 AM

2016-05-31T00:42:16-04:00

I'm a bit torn about this. Having been both Infantry (thirteen and a half years) and MP (fourteen and a half years) I've seen plenty of reasons why NOT to have armed Soldiers carrying concealed.

First, the gut reaction in light of what happened at Fort Hood with Nidal Hassan (I refuse to call him Major... as far as I'm concerned he's an enemy combatant) is to say, "hell yes, our Soldiers should be armed." If there had been armed soldiers there, Hassan wouldn't have killed as many as he did. Indeed, many civilians are appalled to learn that on a military base, the only people who are routinely armed are the MPs.

The flip side of that coin is that when incidents like this happen, you have Military Police responding to a situation blind. They don't know anything about the tactical situation until they enter the area. With armed Soldiers, you are adding a variable into the situation that could end up getting a good guy killed. Imagine if there had been armed Soldiers in that building. The Police (DoD or MP) enter the building knowing only there is a man with a gun and shots had been fired. ANYONE with a weapon at that point is a threat as far as the law enforcement are concerned.

That being said... I think I could agree with a senior NCO (SSG and above) being armed in each unit, and Staff Duty Officers/NCOs during off duty hours.

Allowing unfettered concealed carry on base by any Soldier wishing to do so is asking for major problems. How many times have you seen sub standard soldiers refusing orders from officers and /or NCOs? Now put a weapon into that mix. See? Recipe for disaster.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made May 31 at 2016 2:31 AM

2016-05-31T02:31:17-04:00

Interestingly enough. A permit to carry is valid in the state, the Fed does NOT have to abide by it. I do not see troops carrying during work. So, if a troop carries to and from work, where will it be stored (vehicle)? I'm on the fence, but I feel it might create more problems, that provide security...

Response by LTC Thomas Tennant made May 31 at 2016 8:49 AM

2016-05-31T08:49:29-04:00

You can thank Bill Clinton for signing on for this weapons ban for service men and women being unarmed on military posts. CSM Jane Baldwin....when did USARC approve this move and why hasn't it gotten wider publicity?

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-06-01T11:46:43-04:00

Yes! If you have a conceal carry permit you have been registered although there should be classes on it everyone has a different veiw on this but for me for instance I have a full time job and I'm with the army national guard I come up once a month to drill I carry almost everywhere I go there should be educational classes on it though a little more than going into the sheriffs dept. with your dd214 and getting a plastic permit I have studied my butt off on the Internet and books and magazines on conceal carrying and I've talked to a lot of men who have carried or are carrying they have given me proper reading and instructional materials on concealing and carrying so do I agree with concealing on base... Yes as long as you have common sense a proper permit that will be checked at the gate and you are in fact a service member. Should there be instructional classes? Yes! Anyone should be allowed to go to them. Maybe a class should be taken so a select few should be able to carry on base you either pass or you don't. Get a permit for on base use.

Response by CW5 Andrew J. Foreman made Jun 1 at 2016 11:48 AM

2016-06-01T11:48:00-04:00

Just as an update to some of my comments. I was just emailed a pamphlet from DHS that list the steps to responded to an active shooter. While I agree we should not actively engage a shooter, that is law enforcement's responsibility, the steps are
1. Run
2. Hide
3. Fight (as a last resort)
Under fight it states
• Acting as aggressively as possible against him/her
• Throwing items and improvising weapons
• Yelling
• Committing to your actions

All of the fight actions will get you shot. It's like bring a knife to a gun fight. All it takes is one person when a group hides to set up a good defensive posture. Our hide in place locations have one entrance that could be easily defended with a gun but unable to stop anyone, in fact you are now stuck in the room, once they enter rest in place room.

Response by Cpl Robert Crockett made Jun 1 at 2016 10:29 PM

2016-06-01T22:29:56-04:00

I might be alone in my view of the 2nd Amendment, but I dwell more on the militia part of it than the keep and bearing part. If the privates on guard are increased 15 or 20 fold, the concern over individual carry will fall by the wayside. If I were on a military base, I'd like to see lots of men with guns -- that answer to their officers! Lots and lots of guns!

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 2 at 2016 1:30 AM

2016-06-02T01:30:47-04:00

I do not believe anyone should require a permit for something that is a right. However, the purpose of attaining a permit is for defense. It is useless if you cannot exercise the reason for attaining the permit.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 12:18 PM

2016-11-12T12:18:50-05:00

Absolutely. All service members should be able to carry a weapon on base and while on duty. We are trusted with the most sensitive information and with protecting the American people; we should be trusted with carrying a weapon. A military installation that is a "gun free zone" seems backwards.. Trump believes we should be able to carry a weapon on military installations and while on duty. I am assuming even if he says we can, it will still be up to the Commander and the Commander will prohibit it.

Response by LTC Ed Ross made Nov 12 at 2016 12:26 PM

2016-11-12T12:26:11-05:00

There is no simple answer to this question. These decisions should be made by base commanders based on overall U.S. Army guidance and threats circumstances. Those that are allowed to conceal carry on post should receive special training over and above what is required to obtain a concealed carry permit

Response by SGT Stephen Gober made Nov 12 at 2016 12:34 PM

2016-11-12T12:34:14-05:00

I think that in recent history it's been proven that we are targets that can't fire back. Making us easy to target especially on base. So yes, I think if you have a carry permit you should be able to take your gun anywhere you go, including in uniform and on base. I recognize there's always going to be a contingency of knuckleheads that ruin things for the rest of us. That's why we have the UCMJ and Leadership to enforce it.

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Nov 12 at 2016 5:41 PM

2016-11-12T17:41:01-05:00

OK why do soldiers on post need to conceal and carry? Off post your more of a target. I do believe you should be able to check your gun at the door. So when leaving post you're armed. I believe recruiting stations should be armed. The base can react to an attack faster than all of you think. I know when 9/11 happened I thought man if we're attacked were screwed all the weapons are locked up in the armory. I was in Baum holder Germany. Within 20mins of the attack tanks were at the gates. 50cals were on roof tops m60s were in the windows. Patrols were stringing razor wire and stacking sandbags, and all were being guarded by Bradley s. I don't know how this happened. I can only imagine each base has a QRF with a defense plan. But troops should never have to much freedom. That's why in basic it's a sin to think. On Ft Bragg I still remember the soldier that opened fire on 82nd troops during pt. MP took him out quick. I knew great people in the Army, but I also knew some straight up idiots that shouldn't have made it through MEPS

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 8:34 PM

2016-11-12T20:34:43-05:00

When you enter the military you do not have the same rights as others. You are subject to the UCMJ while on a federal installation and not state law. Try and assemble and protest your demands to the CO. Arms should be in the arms room. A military post is not the Wild West. Even Dodge City and Tombstone had strict gun laws within the city limits.

Response by John Young made Nov 12 at 2016 8:40 PM

2016-11-12T20:40:07-05:00

I am going to be very jealous when uniformed services get to carry because a civilian federal employee who has to deal with a less than receptive populace on the regular I will probably never be permitted to carry with or without a permit.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2016 9:54 AM

2016-11-14T09:54:33-05:00

simple answer from me; yes

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Nov 18 at 2016 6:49 PM

2016-11-18T18:49:20-05:00

Carry in uniform should be generally required. Disarming American servicemembers on American bases is possibly the most asinine policy in the history of the U.S. Military. Appropriate training should be conducted to support carry on base. This would make harder targets of our military bases.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2016 2:29 PM

2016-11-19T14:29:46-05:00

DoDD 5210.56 Arming and Use of Force was just published on November 18, 2016. Personal firearms starts on page 19. Unfortunately, it still leaves the decision of concealed carry up to each installation commander. Most will say no.

Hopefully, President Trump will change it to allow all LEOSA, service members, and retirees with valid state permits to carry on installations.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2016 7:35 PM

2016-11-21T19:35:12-05:00

According to the D0D, YES! D0DD 5210.56 posted last Friday.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Nov 22 at 2016 5:15 PM

2016-11-22T17:15:02-05:00

I say yes with caveats. I believe that if you want to carry on base, you need to do the following:

1.) Gain the enhance carry permit...which in most states you can get simply by showing your id or DD Form 214
2.) take a use of force class that SP's/MP's etc are required to take. Modified of course for non cop personnel.
3.) Qualify once a year with a weapon of your own to show you know how to use it properly and can actually hit the dang target.

After that let the base issue you a card stating you have met these requirements and that you are now qualified to carry. The problem with a blanket policy of letting people carry is that there are a lot of people that can't shoot because they don't have too (don't bring the Air Force jokes) unless they deploy. There are some that haven't fired a weapon since basic training. Just not sure I want them carrying because of the uniform.

Response by SSgt James Connolly made Dec 22 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-12-22T17:19:10-05:00

I can understand not in the bldg.but if you are coming from just having a class on the range,it's a pain to have to travel 30 miles to take it home than go for your appt.Then visa/versa

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Dec 22 at 2016 6:54 PM

2016-12-22T18:54:27-05:00

I still think that all weapons on base should be outlawed from entering I work in Boeing at there has been a Few people that got fired for telling someone they were going to shoot them and someone over heard it and Brought to the Manager and Got Fired. so No weapons
even if they are concealed.
SSG MARK FRANZEN
USA VET

Response by GySgt Gary Koss made Dec 29 at 2016 11:20 PM

2016-12-29T23:20:32-05:00

Yes

Response by SFC John Hatton made Feb 4 at 2018 11:19 AM

2018-02-04T11:19:23-05:00

No, bases have security measures already in place.