SSG Brian Marshall 1202941 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div> 2015-12-29T12:55:00-05:00 SSG Brian Marshall 1202941

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2015-12-29T12:55:00-05:00 2015-12-29T12:55:00-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1202946

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Seems like this might be that one time you can look past that. Just my personal opinion.

2015-12-29T12:56:47-05:00 2015-12-29T12:56:47-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1202950

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Regulations and self discipline matter. Leadership matters and this soldier failed his or her soldiers. They're lucky to get to retire and not be separated. I'd hold myself to the same standards.

2015-12-29T12:59:13-05:00 2015-12-29T12:59:13-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1202965

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have six months left before retirement and several deployments. If I got taped right now, I'd probably bust. I guess what I'm saying is I'm very close to that example myself and I don't think I care about an award or an NCOER. If you learn anything in ACAP, you learn civilians don't care a damn about your career.

2015-12-29T13:03:34-05:00 2015-12-29T13:03:34-05:00 MSgt Peter Vatistas 1202966

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Your CC forgot four things:<br />1) What a retirement medal is <br />2) What it represents <br />3) Who it's for (Troop AND his/her family)<br />4) How to motivate with positive reinforcement. <br /><br />BTW... If he/she sees this and says "Motivate! The guy is retiring!" - Then he/she is missing out on the whole "leadership" thing. The motivation is for the troops in the audience at the ceremony.

2015-12-29T13:04:36-05:00 2015-12-29T13:04:36-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 1202973

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><br />Per AR 600-8-22:<br /><br />1–17. Character of service<br />a. Personal decorations. A medal will not be awarded or presented to any individual whose entire service subsequent<br />to the time of the distinguished act, achievement, or service has not been honorable. The determination of<br />"honorable" will be based on such honest and faithful service according to the standards of conduct, courage, and duty<br />required by law and customs of the service of a Servicemember of the grade to whom the standard is applied.<br />Commanders will ensure that—<br />(1) Individuals on whom favorable personnel actions have been suspended are neither recommended for, nor receive<br />an award, decoration, or a badge during the period of the suspension.<br />(2) Other-than-honorable service subsequent to submission of the recommendation for an award is promptly reported<br />to the awards approving authority with a recommendation for appropriate action.<br />b. Exceptions. As an exception to paragraph 1–17a(1), Soldiers who are flagged for overweight or Army Physical<br />Fitness Test failure may be recommended for and presented an award based on valor and heroism. Additionally,<br />Soldiers who are flagged for overweight or Army Physical Fitness Test failure may be posthumously recommended for<br />and presented an award, decoration, or a badge when assigned to a unit engaged in combat against hostile forces and<br />the Soldier dies as a result of injuries sustained during combat.<br />c. Waiver for overweight and Army Physical Fitness Test failure flags. A waiver of the overweight or Army<br />Physical Fitness Test flag must be processed for length of service retirement awards to the first general officer in the<br />Soldier’s chain of command with award approval or disapproval authority. All waivers will be processed as separate<br />and distinct actions from the award recommendation, and should be submitted and adjudicated prior to submission of<br />the award recommendation. The approved waiver will accompany the award recommendation once submitted

2015-12-29T13:06:04-05:00 2015-12-29T13:06:04-05:00 SSG Daniel Deiler 1202978

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Depends on any mitigating circumstances. Was the Soldier recently injured or did they have a surgery? For a retirement award I would look past it unless the guy had a poor track record. It's a retirement award that may mean a lot to the Soldier and does not reduce readiness or erode standards due to the fact he's going to Ft. Living Room. Kind of douche move IMO to deny a Soldier a retirement award after 20 years of faithful service.

2015-12-29T13:07:16-05:00 2015-12-29T13:07:16-05:00 Capt Mark Strobl 1202979

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The HR screener reviewing your resume doesn&#39;t give $0.02 about your ribbon rack. However, that 20-yrs of service WILL catch their attention. Time to focus on what&#39;s in front of you.

2015-12-29T13:07:21-05:00 2015-12-29T13:07:21-05:00 SGM Steve Wettstein 1202981

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If a Soldier got flagged for 600-9, it is their fault. No one made them get over weight. Complaining about it won&#39;t fix the problem and it is no one else&#39;s fault except the Soldiers.

2015-12-29T13:07:31-05:00 2015-12-29T13:07:31-05:00 WO1 Private RallyPoint Member 1202987

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yea... Tough one. On one hand I feel bad for the person, on the other ... I bust my ass to stay in shape and be a soldier, ready to respond physically in physically demanding situations, even if I'm never called upon. A trophy for everyone doesn't do anyone favors.

2015-12-29T13:12:05-05:00 2015-12-29T13:12:05-05:00 SFC Douglas Duckett 1203029

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I find it interesting that an APFT failure or an overweight Soldier who is FLAGGED, is still considered a combat deployable asset. Its like sending a M4 with a bent barrel to the front line for use. Its kind of a double standard I think. The Soldier is not good enough to receive something he/she earned despite the infractions to regulations, but he/she is good enough to stop a bullet.

2015-12-29T13:26:10-05:00 2015-12-29T13:26:10-05:00 1LT Private RallyPoint Member 1203037

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I've been reminding soldiers since I was an E5 that maintaining yourself is soldier level. PT can only do so much. It's called discipline

2015-12-29T13:27:50-05:00 2015-12-29T13:27:50-05:00 SFC Adam Potter 1203060

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would answer the question with a question based on what I have read: Does the following apply? Specifically paragraph b.<br />3–11. Temporary medical condition<br />a. All Soldiers found to exceed the allowable body fat standard will have a DA Form 268 initiated and be enrolled<br />in the ABCP.<br />b. Soldiers found to have a temporary medical condition that directly causes weight gain or prevents weight or body<br />fat loss will have up to 6 months from the initial medical evaluation date to undergo treatment to resolve the medical<br />condition. The medical specialty physician may extend the time period up to 12 months if it is determined more time is<br />needed to resolve the medical condition. During this time, the Soldier will participate in the ABCP, to include initiation<br />of a DA Form 268, nutrition counseling, and monthly body fat assessment, but will not be penalized for failing to show<br />progress. However, if the Soldier meets the body fat standard during this timeframe, he or she will be removed from<br />the ABCP.<br />c. The provisions of this paragraph are not applicable to medical conditions or injuries based solely on a prescribed<br />reduction in physical activity. The inability to exercise does not directly cause weight gain. Health care personnel will<br />advise Soldiers to modify caloric intake when reduced physical activity is necessary as part of a treatment plan.<br />d. Once the medical condition is resolved, or 6 months (not to exceed 12 months), whichever occurs first, from the<br />date of the medical evaluation, and if the Soldier still exceeds the body fat standard, he or she will continue<br />participating in the ABCP but will be required to show satisfactory progress, as defined in paragraph 3–9b. Health care<br />providers will forward to the Soldier’s commander an updated memorandum stating the effective date that the Soldier’s<br />temporary medical condition is resolved.<br />e. If the Soldier is unable to show satisfactory progress in accordance with paragraph 3–9b, the Soldier will be<br />subject to separation.

2015-12-29T13:37:41-05:00 2015-12-29T13:37:41-05:00 CPT Mark Gonzalez 1203069

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SSG Brian Marshall you probably already know this, but the recommender can request an exception to policy to the first general officer in your chain of command. This is straight from AR 600-8-22, para 1-17. Based upon your AWCP history and the work put in, it is something worth considering. Thank you for what you did regardless.

2015-12-29T13:42:21-05:00 2015-12-29T13:42:21-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1203083

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yup, Thats the rules. However, a General Officer can authorize the award regardless of the flag though. AR 600-8-22.

2015-12-29T13:46:49-05:00 2015-12-29T13:46:49-05:00 SSG Thomas Gallegos 1203084

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Straight BS! But in the end all that matters is that DD214 and blue retirement card.

2015-12-29T13:47:23-05:00 2015-12-29T13:47:23-05:00 MSgt Private RallyPoint Member 1203095

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>THIS IS EXACTLY THE THING THE NEW RETIREMENT PLAN WILL PREVENT!!!! Thanks for a great example of why the retirement systems needed to be changed.<br /><br />As to this guy if he was over 19 years and knew he was in trouble he should have filed for retirement at the earliest possible moment so as to become record status code 20....probably would have saved him verses being in denial and trying to tough it out. <br /><br />Also if he was over 20 at the time of the admin separation he can petition to have it reversed.....had a friend many years ago who filed congressional for similar situation....took 5 years but he did get his retirement awarded, with back pay.

2015-12-29T13:50:01-05:00 2015-12-29T13:50:01-05:00 MCPO Roger Collins 1203097

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>What the heck is a retirement award? Unless that was added in later years in the Navy, never heard of it. As someone pointed out all that matters is the DD-214, a retirement check and the associated benefits. That was and is my award.

2015-12-29T13:51:30-05:00 2015-12-29T13:51:30-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1203118

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My thoughts? Standards are standards. 20 years of service doesn't trump standards, and neither do 4 deployments. If a soldier gets flagged for not meeting height and weight then they have no one to blame but themselves.

2015-12-29T13:59:10-05:00 2015-12-29T13:59:10-05:00 SrA David Steyer 1203301

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There's really no difference for a medal given for serving 20+ years and retiring or a PCS or mid-tour other than the sentence at the end of the citation. At least in the AF anyway. I've seen members get a MSM or AFCM for retirement and members who didn't get squat. There has been zero correlation between getting a medal at a retirement and their future success after the military. Employers don't care, and even if it was your first award of that medal, are you really going to wear it with civilian clothing or wear your uniform again on a daily basis?<br /><br />Is an MSM or ARCOM going to get you a job when you get out or retire? No. I was put in for an AF Achievement, which would have been my first when I was getting out and it was shot down...and I call tell you it wouldn't have done anything for me. Of course it would have been nice to be recognized but guess what, that DD214 with honorable discharge (or retirement) carries more weight then what would now be a piece of cloth.

2015-12-29T15:04:38-05:00 2015-12-29T15:04:38-05:00 MAJ Ken Landgren 1203364

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Be happy you made it to the finish line.

2015-12-29T15:32:48-05:00 2015-12-29T15:32:48-05:00 MAJ Ken Landgren 1203404

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Keep your head up. Take solace in what you have accomplished, and look at the future with crystal clarity. Don't have regrets as they will do nothing for you.

2015-12-29T15:48:14-05:00 2015-12-29T15:48:14-05:00 MSG Wally Carmichael 1203406

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree with the comments about the award being of no value to civilian employers. However, get out of your own damn head and think about others for a minute in your career. As posted by SSG Thomas Livingston or SSG Brian Marshall - AR 600-8-22 clearly states the Soldier can get awarded for his/her service to our nation. <br /><br />Rather the Soldier wants the award or not, it's leaderships job to get off their ass and put forth the effort to request the waiver. Many people say they don't want the recognition while most do. Regardless, they deserve it. I know of a few who did not even want a retirement ceremony, but the great SGM/CSM required it because that's the right thing to do. The Soldier also deserves a retirement award. <br /><br />BTW, I was never over weight, not even close, in my 25 years of service. Even up to the APFT I scored 298 (my knees could hardly handle the run at that speed anymore). And I did everything I could to ensure my Soldiers were in the best health and physical condition they could be in. I'm still doing that in my retired life. And, as long as I could help it, I ensured my Soldiers got the recognition they deserved regardless of their body composition, physical abilities etc. I read and followed the regulation.<br /><br />Get off your high horse, read and follow the regulation and get the Soldier the award he/she deserves. <br /><br />Wally

2015-12-29T15:49:12-05:00 2015-12-29T15:49:12-05:00 MSG Brad Sand 1203415

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You are retired, and who cares about an award. You made it across the finish line. You will get the real retirement award the end of each month.

2015-12-29T15:52:21-05:00 2015-12-29T15:52:21-05:00 Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth 1203421

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>DD-214 that states retired under honorable conditions is all that you need. Nobody gave you a medal when you volunteered for enlistment...you walked in and you are walking out. Thanks for your service. Medals/awards are not a right. The DD214 is a medal/award that will last you a lifetime in retirement pay, VA benefits, and medical care. Civilian business don&#39;t give a darn if you are overweight or received a certain medal/award...they just see that you served honorably and they want to know what you are going to do for them...period. The reason I am not excited about medals/awards of any kind (retirement or otherwise) is that I have seen some of them handed out like candy because you were breathing and at the right place at the right time, you were looking/working to get one, or you were a certain rank. When I was overseas, you couldn&#39;t swing a dead cat without hitting senior leaders, officer and SNCO alike, that would be there long enough to get a medal/award and rotate out or they would go out on certain missions so they could say they were outside the wire for a medal/award then they would disappear. There has to be standards and until all of those standards are held across the board then they won&#39;t mean too much to me, retirement or otherwise.

2015-12-29T15:54:16-05:00 2015-12-29T15:54:16-05:00 CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) 1203486

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Total BS. Same with taking the apft before retirement. Absolutely outrageous.

2015-12-29T16:20:08-05:00 2015-12-29T16:20:08-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1203519

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>AR 600-22 para 1-17c: A waiver of the overweight or Army Physical Fitness Test flag must be processed for length of service retirement awards to the first general officer in the Soldier’s chain of command with award approval or disapproval authority. All waivers will be processed as separate and distinct actions from the award recommendation, and should be submitted and adjudicated prior to submission of the award recommendation.

2015-12-29T16:30:15-05:00 2015-12-29T16:30:15-05:00 CW2 Louis Melendez 1203553

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree that PT is an individual responsibility. However, I don't agree with the people that forget that our bodies deteriorates with time and like to talk/act like this will never happen to them. It is unbelievable how we like to throw the regulation and talk about what is "right" or what should be done when in reality we don't operate in a perfect world.<br />I don't know the entire history of the individual but usually situations like the one mentioned on this post happens because someone just wants to hurt in some way or fashion the individual that is retiring. At this point, everybody in the CoC should be trying to help him/her to finish strong and get him to pass but who knows if the award is the last thing that the SM is thinking about.

2015-12-29T16:40:22-05:00 2015-12-29T16:40:22-05:00 SSG Rafael Rodriguez 1203639

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You have situation awareness, 20 Yrs and 4 Deployments, that makes you an outstanding Soldier in my book, you do now appreciate where you're at and more than ever take care of that flag. I am not going to read you the book because you know it, nothing comes easy, remember the bottom line, get a partner, battle buddy or a friend but got to get this flag removed, focus on the task, it can be done, how bad you want this retirement?

2015-12-29T17:17:45-05:00 2015-12-29T17:17:45-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1203647

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="28739" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/28739-ssg-brian-marshall">SSG Brian Marshall</a> What rank is the person you are talking about? I hate to say this but if this is an E6/E7 then yes I can see it happening, but what sickens me is if it was same situation and the Solder was a CSM/ MAJ/LTC you better believe they get something awarded. This is just my opinion.

2015-12-29T17:21:03-05:00 2015-12-29T17:21:03-05:00 MAJ Rene De La Rosa 1203760

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Oh, that is wrong on so many levels. They are leaving the military after an honorable 20 years, and the height/weight gets them in the end. They survived this long, and that is what did them in? Once retirement paperwork is in, the rules and regulations should be waved for something like this. I remain befuddled by the Army bureaucracy.

2015-12-29T18:12:13-05:00 2015-12-29T18:12:13-05:00 1SG Todd Sullivan 1203895

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Lot of input here... Some good some not so good, some a regurgitation of the AR&#39;s... I actually had/have put a lot of thought into this, I started out say to myself if you&#39;re fat well you&#39;re fat. After 22 years of service I look back and I remember the fat guys, but I also remember being disgusted at how some of my non fat heavy weights were treated, a guy that runs 13:30 maxes push ups and sit ups, can ruck 12 miles in way less than 4 hours.. Expert rifle, smoked sniper school, but taped over because instead of sitting in the barracks in the weekends and every evening after COB playing call of duty, they were hunting, fishing, going to the gym like it was a religion.... These guys never fell out of anything. They were always the standard bearer in uniform never looking shabby. So why should they not get a retirement or PCS award?? WHY NOT???? If they looked like they were wearing maternity uniforms, couldn&#39;t hack it physically.... Absolutely NOT! But really, the Army&#39;s height and weight system is broken and out dated. There are way better systems out there that can be used even down at the company level. Just my thoughts, I think a revamp and a reconnection with training to be leaders is in order, be Military leaders not leaders based on political environment and turmoil. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

2015-12-29T18:53:19-05:00 2015-12-29T18:53:19-05:00 CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) 1204007

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Overall, this issue depends on the circumstances. I guess I tend to look at this topic via the big picture. I don't know all the facts, however, devoting 20 yrs plus all the sacrifices shouldn't result in a big middle finger when you retire. I've seen a lot of turds get medals they didn't deserve because they pmc'sd a vehicle correctly, submitted a timely report, carried the generals briefcase around and so on. If a person honorably served and is retiring, not giving them recognition by the common manner of the military (a medal) is wrong in my book. The regs should be changed - getting a 1 star to sign off will always be hit and miss especially for nco's. I find it interesting how many people here keep the "regulation" blinders on and can't see beyond that. Having spent 10 yrs in SOCOM u learn that sometimes u break the rules. As a CI agent and a Humint'r, we also tend to bend the rules. I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. I have never been one to blindly follow the rules - the Army taught me that. In SF, it was lie, cheat and steal - do whatever it takes to accomplish the mission.

2015-12-29T19:45:44-05:00 2015-12-29T19:45:44-05:00 CSM David Hopkins 1204017

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think many of you are missing the point that was being made and the question being asked. First off: YES physical fitness is a personal responsibility, both for PT and maintaining proper height and weight standards. YES the individual that becomes flagged for failing an APFT or being placed on the ABCP only has themself to blame (outside of those with medical issues that contribute to the weight gain). The basic premise for this question is whether you think someone that has served 20+ years deserves the recognition of an award, regardless of being flagged for ABCP enrollment or an APFT failure.<br />Personally I say yes they do deserve the recognition. It isn't always just about the individual. A few people have already mentioned the fact that it is also about the Soldiers remaining in service after said individual retires. If we treat a Soldier that basically gave 20 or more years of their adult life to this country that way because of something that is truly of minor significance, then we become hypocritical, because you always hear speeches and seniors talk about taking care of each other from the time you enter the service. What motivation do the younger Soldiers have to give their adult life to the service vs. getting out? Another way to look at it is like this: What is one purpose of an Article 15? It is to maintain good order and discipline within the unit. If that was not one of the purposes then every punishment should be the same, regardless of the circumstances leading to the misconduct.<br />As far as the retirement award goes though, it is a public recognition of the sacrifices of the Soldier and his/her family. And for the individual that asked about the retirement ceremony, I have not been to an installation that does not hold a monthly or at least quarterly retirement ceremony. If you can determine when the next one is at your duty station, you should attend. You will typically see hundreds of years of service to the nation sitting in one room. Most places feel it is so important that they have a Brigade Commander and CSM host the ceremony and present the awards to the retirees.

2015-12-29T19:53:18-05:00 2015-12-29T19:53:18-05:00 Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin 1204034

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was deployed for a year into a combat zone with 9 months left before retirement by the time I returned. I was still obligated to do my PFT within that time, and I continued to give the Air Force everything I could before I went on terminal leave. Staying within standards matters and it is important. If you fail to meet this requirement prior to retirement, you have no one to blame but yourself. As another poster stated, you have an honorable career to take to your next employer who could care less whether you met those standards on the eve of retirement. However, how would you deal with your own decision not to met your obligations all the way until the end of your service?

2015-12-29T20:00:03-05:00 2015-12-29T20:00:03-05:00 SPC Makissa Lewis 1204118

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the height and weight requirements are outdated. With that said, don't worry about your award start planning for the next chapter of your life.

2015-12-29T20:42:35-05:00 2015-12-29T20:42:35-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1204202

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you're still in the Army, you must meet Army standards. I'd figure after 20 years this realization wouldn't be mind boggling.

2015-12-29T21:19:20-05:00 2015-12-29T21:19:20-05:00 CSM Charles Hayden 1204309

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Have you tried enlisting RA?

2015-12-29T22:08:45-05:00 2015-12-29T22:08:45-05:00 Sgt Kelli Mays 1204473

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>They give you plenty of time to try and get into shape and get the weight off....if the soldier didn't take the time to try and do something about it, it's on that soldier and no one else.<br /><br />This being said...I think the way the weight thing is figured out is BOLOGNA....my second year in....I got sent to my commanders office for my weight...I wore a size 3...yep, that's right...a 3...which is really very tiny....yet, I was muscular and have always weighed way more than I look.....I have the German side of my families big butt and thighs.......5'5 and 137 lbs and I was told I was pushing the limit. My commander laughed his ass off and told me to get the hell out of his office and that he would take care of it....... It's ridiculous.<br /><br />BUT! On the serious note....if you are over weight....bulging belly and obviously over weight...then you should do something about it. If you ignore it and don't do anything, then too bad.<br /><br />My boss when I first got to Wilford Hall was painfully over weight...by 100 lbs. He was written up...three times....and for over a year, he didn't even try to do anything about it....and he was kicked out...in his 19th year of service. It was his fault and no one else's. He had plenty of opportunity to try and loose the weight and he made no effort and didn't drop a pound. He had the attitude of ....I only have less than two years to go so who cares. Well the Air Force cared and they didn't let him get away with it. He had no excuses....he ate like a pig.

2015-12-29T23:36:49-05:00 2015-12-29T23:36:49-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1204596

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You're retiring... All I want is my DD214 .. No award or fuss ... Only ride off into the sunset

2015-12-30T01:46:05-05:00 2015-12-30T01:46:05-05:00 SPC Jerry McEntire 1204710

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you have done 20 years been deployed and for the most part a good soldier who cares if you have a few extra pounds as long as you get the job done!

2015-12-30T05:14:42-05:00 2015-12-30T05:14:42-05:00 PO3 Private RallyPoint Member 1204774

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>.... just a ribbon .... and civilian don't care or even know which ribbons to what anyway.<br /><br />If they fail the regulation ... nothing much to discuss right? they fail it ...

2015-12-30T07:18:25-05:00 2015-12-30T07:18:25-05:00 SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member 1204969

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The standards are pretty black and white.

2015-12-30T09:25:08-05:00 2015-12-30T09:25:08-05:00 MSG Jay Jackson 1205069

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would say if being overweight is the only issue then go ahead and do the award for this soldier.

2015-12-30T10:16:02-05:00 2015-12-30T10:16:02-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1205147

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>AR 600-8-22 para 1-7 2 (c).<br />Your command needs to submit a waiver in order to recommend an award for retirement. Now if they don't support a waiver for some reason, that is well within their rights to deny.<br />I have only seen this done once, and there were a whole lot of extenuating circumstances beyond the ht/wt issue.

2015-12-30T10:45:37-05:00 2015-12-30T10:45:37-05:00 SPC Margaret Higgins 1205170

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I believe that this is very unfair to the Soldiers. They are not being rated on their: loyalty, fidelity, honor, years of service, and bravery, but on their weight.<br />Did anyone ever stop to think that these men and women might have emotional/mental issues; after their repeated deployments? and after possibly sacrificing their very lives; for their country ...and thus the overeating?

2015-12-30T10:57:06-05:00 2015-12-30T10:57:06-05:00 GySgt John O'Donnell 1205211

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>IMO, this is an example of where a "20-year service medal" should be instituted by all government service. It would reflect the sacrifice of longevity without compromising the integrity of the awards system by inflating awards for "being there" as has become more and more the norm. Awards for meritorious service must be earned both in and out of uniform throughout the period of service being recognized. Failing to meet the minimum standard even in one area can and should effect the outcome of recognition, whereas a award for heroism is for a single act of courage (and even those are viewed with a whole person concept, e.g. Medal of Honor, Service Cross, Silver Star).

2015-12-30T11:10:14-05:00 2015-12-30T11:10:14-05:00 SGT Chris Hill 1205259

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As much as getting an award is nice, all that matters is that forever paycheck you're going to get. You know how 1-44 is, they bend the rules for officers and senior NCO's but not for others. You know how many times I've seen 1SG pull the staff officers height/weight stats because he was doing them a favor? If 1-44 does not like you for any reason at all, they will hold you to regs 100%, but if they like you, they'll work around it. Either way man, you'll have your retirement and DD214 and freedom. Even though it's not the same thing, I got the same ETS award as a soldier in 1-44 who never showed up to work, always missed first formation, couldn't be relied on to do anything, wouldn't even clear himself for his DD214 and served only 3 years.

2015-12-30T11:24:21-05:00 2015-12-30T11:24:21-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 1205296

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>to be honest, the tape test is absolutely worthless for body composition. there&#39;s an e5 in my battery that tapes at -2% body fat. I still can&#39;t figure out how someone can have anti-body fat. and if your posture is bad, you magically get fatter, and the numbers don&#39;t adjust for total body weight

2015-12-30T11:36:05-05:00 2015-12-30T11:36:05-05:00 CW3 Michael Schroer 1205417

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ahhhh.....the infamous "If you don't do this you're not going to get a retirement award" saga....I was in the same situation....39 y.o., just returning from a 8 month deployment and retiring. Company Commander and 1SG told me that I had to take an APFT to receive an end of service award. I basically told them to shove it. Family history of heart disease and I would be damned if I was going to take an APFT as the last thing just to receive an award. All kinds of pressure and threats from the Co. CDR and 1SG; then Bn CDR and SGM as to violating regulations and orders for not taking the APFT. Also that the Bn CDR was traveling to my Field Office to present the award and wanted this matter settled. I still told them in no uncertain terms that only a Chief Warrant Officer can express that it wasn't going to happen. Needless to say, there was no APFT; but there was an awards ceremony and the appropriate award (that's another story). And as if to prove my point, a few years down the road quadruple bypass. So, for me if all I got was my DD-214; then that was fine with me. Something as trivial as an APFT or over weight when you've given 20+ years defending this Nation should just be brushed aside. You don't owe the military anything anymore...the Nation owes you now. Enjoy your retirement and be glad you made it.

2015-12-30T12:19:36-05:00 2015-12-30T12:19:36-05:00 CW3 Kevin Storm 1205440

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The problem I have had with 600-9 , is that it does not take into account a person&#39;s body type. Is the person a ectomorph (thin person), mesomorph (average or medium sized), or endomorph (a larger person). We try and use a one size fits all, when medical science tells us that is not the case. Telling a Endomorph to loose weight or meet a certain PT score, is not as easy at it sounds. The ones who put on weight and can loose it (ecto and mesomorphs) are at a distinct advantage over the mesomorphs.<br /><br />That said the ectomorph is at a distinct disadvantage as it is harder for them to put on true muscle mass, where for the other two it comes easier. Arbitrarily applying a PT standard to all three IMHO is not the correct answer. Who can carry more ammo the ecto or the meso? If all other things are equal I am going for the meso. Which Is why I am supporting the concept of PT tests being scaled to job&#39;s. A 13Bravo has a different job from an infantry soldier, from a tanker, from a fueler, thus the Pt test should be different based on job and body type. My 2 cents.

2015-12-30T12:32:22-05:00 2015-12-30T12:32:22-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1205445

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If the height/weight system was actually accurate and displayed something near an actual body fat count, I would have no problem with this, but since the system.in place has been proven by multiple studies to be the most inaccurate system out there and is not recognized as a means to measure body fat by anyone but the DOD I don't believe that this is appropriate.

2015-12-30T12:34:28-05:00 2015-12-30T12:34:28-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1205531

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>in the grand scheme of things, retirement awards don&#39;t mean dick. Big freakin whoop, another ribbon for a rack that you will probably never wear again. It&#39;s not like it has any effect on your retirement. I got precisely diddly squat for an award when I left the NG after 11 years, 3 deployments, 2 company commands, multiple state activations, etc. Sure, I was transferring to the reserves and not retiring and it probably pissed someone in the CoC off because I was leaving, but 11 years and not so much as a handshake and a good luck.... But that didn&#39;t stop me from making O4 on the first board with the reserves.

2015-12-30T13:09:48-05:00 2015-12-30T13:09:48-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1205713

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Commanders can still give him an award, it's in the regs, but at that point, I don't think I would care, I'd still participate in the retirement ceremony and let everyone see that my commander didn't approve my award

2015-12-30T14:17:28-05:00 2015-12-30T14:17:28-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 1205764

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Some of out countries greatest General Officer tnroughtout history wouldnt pass the current Army height and weight standards. We&#39;ve developed a culture that it is all about height and weight and APFT score. The amount of emphasis on physical apprearance versus intellectual abilities is highly skewed.

2015-12-30T14:39:36-05:00 2015-12-30T14:39:36-05:00 MAJ James Woods 1205812

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Totally understand the frustration one would have. How did I serve 20+ years and earned retirement but don't receive an award? Well have to agree with the many other responses; that soldier is lucky to be allowed to retire if they didn't even meet HT/WT standards or flagged for any violation of regulation. A lot of Soldiers can be called a Veteran but only a select few can call themselves a Retiree; a title that should stand distinguished from others.

2015-12-30T15:07:05-05:00 2015-12-30T15:07:05-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 1205918

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My thoughts? Should have lost the weight.

2015-12-30T16:08:31-05:00 2015-12-30T16:08:31-05:00 SGM William Vernon 1206235

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>They can get an award, if the unit is willing to have the dedication and foresight to process a waiver then there is a system in place for deserving Soldiers to still receive an award at retirement.

2015-12-30T18:41:03-05:00 2015-12-30T18:41:03-05:00 LTC David Brown 1206477

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We had a ward master when I first joined , a very capable gregarious individual. Had a profile for bad knees due to combat jumps. One day I saw him walking down an alley in front of my car by the hospital. I slowly inched the car behind him and hit the horn. I immediately regretted doing it. This poor fellow tried to hobble out of the way of the car scared he was going to be hit. It would have been funny and we did laugh about it later but it etched on my heart to cost of his service. During normal hours he hide his pain and disability very well. I have known to many good soldiers who have struggled with weight issues. That being said , when I was at Fort Carson we had a tanker so fat he got stuck in the turret, it was a discussion point at general officers call. Must be some gray ground to give the deserving a break.

2015-12-30T21:55:44-05:00 2015-12-30T21:55:44-05:00 CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) 1206504

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Funny. It mostly seems the younger/junior NCO's and CSMs are all about the regs while others are a little more forgiving. For those in the “who cares about meaningless medals” camp, do you wear yours? Would you be butthurt if you didn’t receive something for a deployment or PCS? Then we have that small group in which I’ve seen commanders disregard the regs and ensure a deserving Soldier is taken care of. The worst group to fall into are Soldiers who don’t receive awards because there was a word misspelled or some other stupid error on their 638 and the attitude is “well, he’s gone, who gives a shit.”<br />I will end my participation here by stating we’ll have to agree to disagree. Failing to honor a Soldier who dedicated at least 20 years of their life to the military in an honorable manner (who's retiring) because they missed the run by five seconds or is an inch over on tape is a leadership failure. What ever happened to taking care of Soldiers? My 2 ½ cents, flame away.

2015-12-30T22:10:29-05:00 2015-12-30T22:10:29-05:00 ENS Matthew Fleming 1206543

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The very prevalent belief that weight gain is always the result of poor choices and a lack is self-discipline is contrary to nearly 15 years of research (Vierra, etal. Stanford, 2006). Weight gain has been proven to happen as a result of aging (10-15% increase every decade), and nearly 200 mapped genetic anomalies that result in obesity at the same rate that the well-known breast cancer gene presents in cancer. This is not a popular view. Many people place a lot of stock in feeling morally superior to those who are overweight. But even after the Biosphere experiments, we began to learn that even in a closed environment given dramatoc caloric restrictions and increased physical.actovory, within 18-24 months humans return to their setpoint weight, even if they continue with the diet. <br />Saying that someone is ineligible for service when they are initially screened is one thing. But negating prior service when it is possible to determine medical causality is unethical in the extreme.

2015-12-30T22:33:41-05:00 2015-12-30T22:33:41-05:00 ENS Matthew Fleming 1206553

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Reading these comments is revealing. It is clear that those who are fortunate enough to be genetically mesomorphic invest a lot of their self esteem in body image and the antiquated mindset regarding weight gain. Its simple.to look up relevant medical research using "Google Scholar.". In a few minutes there is a wealth of info including studies of fraternal twins with the same diet and and activity profiles whose BMIs are drastically different.

2015-12-30T22:39:35-05:00 2015-12-30T22:39:35-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1206658

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>20 year letter is enough of a reward for myself.

2015-12-30T23:31:12-05:00 2015-12-30T23:31:12-05:00 LCDR Private RallyPoint Member 1206850

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Must be an Army thing, because I've never known anyone in the Navy that really cared about a retirement award...

2015-12-31T04:32:07-05:00 2015-12-31T04:32:07-05:00 1SG Jeff H 1207146

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Just my Opinion from someone who Retired last year and entered the Civilian workforce. Retirement Awards are intended to recognize the Service Member for his/her years of faithful service to the Nation. So the Soldier does not pass tape, has this been a reoccurring issue? If so, its a personal problem and a Command failure. <br /><br />Is it nice to be recognized at Retirement? sure, is it necessary? No. My DD214, College Education, and drive to ensure I was set up for success is what prepared me for the Civilian transition. Did they ask me about my Awards during an Interview? No, most Civilians don't even know what that stuff is pasted all over your DD214. <br /><br />If the Soldier was deserving, the Command should ensure all paperwork is sent forward for the Award regardless of the current situation of being overweight or overfat. That reminds me, I think they brought Breakfast Tacos in this morning at my workplace where I landed a very good job after retirement.

2015-12-31T10:22:30-05:00 2015-12-31T10:22:30-05:00 CW4 Angel C. 1207415

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think he still deserves it. Unfortunately, failing the tape test without a medical justification flags a Soldier. We, the regulation complying ones, deserve more than an ARCOM, MSM, etc... but we just take it FIDO (drive on!) So drive on and enjoy retirement. It's much more than awards, OERs/NCOERs, formations, PT, etc... Again FIDO brothers

2015-12-31T12:28:18-05:00 2015-12-31T12:28:18-05:00 CW4 Angel C. 1207466

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>BTW a lot of my fellow "super dupper paratroopers" will not agree with me on this one, but I rather have one overweight mechanic in the motor pool that knows what he's doing, gets the job done, and can teach others than 10 PT studs that all they know to do is jump out of airplanes and follow orders. These overweight guys sometimes are the hardest workers in the units... Now I'm mostly talking stateside peacetime Army! It's a whole different thing to count on that guy to run to the Assembly Area... For that I'll use the studs lol

2015-12-31T12:42:31-05:00 2015-12-31T12:42:31-05:00 SGT Frank Leonardo 1207571

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well being in as long as you have been you should have known what regs are on that standard and only you control your weight

2015-12-31T13:20:18-05:00 2015-12-31T13:20:18-05:00 PO1 Glenn Boucher 1207615

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Not to sound like an ass, but what does a retirement award really mean in the bigger picture? I think retirement awards are nice and plenty of people don't get one for a variety of reasons. If your command doesn't give you a retirement award they have their reasons and again in the end its not going to really make a difference in the civilian sector.

2015-12-31T13:38:59-05:00 2015-12-31T13:38:59-05:00 PO2 Private RallyPoint Member 1207641

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>To each his own, but essentially as long as I get my retirement that's all that matters. If that's jeopardized that's another story. Having the award is just something to have really. My question is when were they flagged overweight (JUST NOW) AND like nobody saw it coming or what? I don't know.

2015-12-31T13:49:49-05:00 2015-12-31T13:49:49-05:00 CPT Pedro Meza 1207883

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As an officer my soldiers come first, there is more to this question because it is a command issue that happens more frequently during draw downs; soldiers have rights and benefits that they have earned.

2015-12-31T15:34:23-05:00 2015-12-31T15:34:23-05:00 PO1 Glenn Colby 1207946

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If we're able to retire and collect a pension you've done good. Retirement award may look nice sitting on your wall but a bank statement with a DFAS deposit every month for the rest of your life is much better. Close that chapter and start a new one. I get what your saying it's like a slap in the face for the time you've done but does it really matter?

2015-12-31T16:06:57-05:00 2015-12-31T16:06:57-05:00 MSgt Roger Lalik 1208048

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Someone I&#39;m sure more than one has allowed the member to continue his service. Now when the member is eligible for a 20 year retirement. These failed leaders want to run up the bullsh*t flag, cry foul and demand this punishment. Those that allowed this member to reach 20 years and remain in violation of standards should be standing tall in an Article 15. Member did his 20 years, you kept him. He deserves the retirement he worked and sacrificed for. <br /><br />This is nothing but bad leadership. You can sound off all you want about member knew the standards, I counseled the member, etc etc etc. At some point member should have been processed IF leadership had done their job. You!, leader you&#39;re responsible for this member. If you didn&#39;t do your job to get him squared away. Which you obviously didn&#39;t. Then sit down and shut-up. <br /><br />He earned his 20 year retirement.

2015-12-31T17:05:28-05:00 2015-12-31T17:05:28-05:00 COL Private RallyPoint Member 1208602

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Weight has nothing to do with it. Meet the requirements and receive benefits that are earned by achieving the standard.

2016-01-01T00:17:27-05:00 2016-01-01T00:17:27-05:00 PO3 Bob Walsh 1208710

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>A soldier or sailor flagged at retirement for overweight looks to me to be a scam, by the military, to beat the person out of retirement. Do they realize retirement is not the same as deployment, what difference does it make if the retiree is over weight? The difference is, a lot of money is saved if retirement is not paid. I hate to think that our Government would deny a legitimate claim for retirement, but there are too many examples of this happening.

2016-01-01T02:55:30-05:00 2016-01-01T02:55:30-05:00 SFC Bobby Thompson 1209016

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If he or she is an NCO or an Officer if they are overweight not due to a catastrophic injury, than they should not get an award. Because they are not upholding the standards published in AR 600-9. But that does not stop your unit from giving him a plaque.

2016-01-01T10:58:25-05:00 2016-01-01T10:58:25-05:00 CSM Private RallyPoint Member 1209022

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Seem very "hokey"...... under AR 600-8-22; retirement awards while flagged for overweight are permitted. Obviously don't expect a higher level award for not meeting standards up to retirement date, but still permissible. Could an overweight Soldier still be submitted for an MSM? Yep! Realize that if flagged for overweight the ERB normally goes up with the award and the flag would (no pun) cause a red flag for a likely down grade. This, by the way; should NOT be confused with an ETS award if flagged.

2016-01-01T11:02:23-05:00 2016-01-01T11:02:23-05:00 MSgt Wayne Morris 1209193

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Receiving a gong with your retirement is a nice way to say thanks for your service and eating the crap sandwich for 20 years or more but in the long run means nothing because you will be remembered by your peers and juniors for how good or bad you were. Still it sounds like you commander must be a real tool or have a bad case of penis envy. Enjoy your monthly check in the bank, remember the good times and great people and enjoy your new life.

2016-01-01T12:59:22-05:00 2016-01-01T12:59:22-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1209211

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Thank you for your dedication and service. I wouldn't stress about the extra ribbon after all you have done. Immense achievement.

2016-01-01T13:08:10-05:00 2016-01-01T13:08:10-05:00 LTC Bink Romanick 1209808

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="28739" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/28739-ssg-brian-marshall">SSG Brian Marshall</a> I find that incredibly unfair and offensive. If a soldiers weight was such a problem, why weren't they chartered out before reaching retirement?<br /><br />I fought a battle with AR 600-9 through the my career. Fortunately, I was blessed with a 19" neck, but I am sure that I would have retired one grade higher, if I was skinny.<br /><br />The intent of the weight control program is healthier soldiers , but I personally know of an officer who died of a heart attack while running to maintain weight. I am sure that there are many more cases of this. Fat ain't where it's at, but skinny doesn't mean healthy.

2016-01-01T19:48:11-05:00 2016-01-01T19:48:11-05:00 SFC Michael Tucker 1209926

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Personally I feel that the Army's Award System as well as their Height/Weight Measurement System is broken. As LtCol Shuttleworth stated, down range, they were handed out like candy and then that individual was never seen again. But, me personally, It would've been nice to have received an MSM when I retired, but I wasn't heart broken once I found out I wouldn't be getting one...... I was 20 lbs overweight. Fat? No! But in my own defense, I suffered an IED blast in which I broke my neck, upon returning home, my health slowly started to decline physically, no matter how much I PT'd and lived in the gym. I had my shoulder rebuilt, a year later, knee reconstruction, another deployment ...... still hooking and jabbing. After that 4th deployment, I came home, a ton of pain, had a heart attack and heart surgery, mixed with PTSD, TBI, Depression, Meds and Drinking them down, but still doing my duties, holding my family together, receiving a Unit Award and being accepted into the Order of the Cheyenne (I trained Apache Pilots on Air-to-Ground Tactics, I was the OPFOR TRNG NCOIC), but they couldn't see fit to give me an MSM, yet a MSG just a month before retires, 52 lbs overweight, well liked by everyone, 25 yrs of svc to my 23, and he receives his 1st MSM, now mind you he was a 1SG for 4 yrs and got relieved for cause. WTF! System is broken! I've never had one bad piece of paper or bad NCOER.

2016-01-01T20:57:16-05:00 2016-01-01T20:57:16-05:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 1210898

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>if you are over weight and there is not medical condition then you are not to standard i get it you feel you should get it but you had a agreement to be ready all the time not up and i'm close to retirement... so ill get fat .. fail you will hold the standard til you are out period!!

2016-01-02T13:02:57-05:00 2016-01-02T13:02:57-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1211205

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>for a good portion of my 20 years on AD I struggled with the weight control program. Being at 6ft 5 inches I averaged 230 pounds which fluctuated 5 or 6 pounds in either direction. I had been subject to being pinch tested at first then taped regularly. More often than not I would get a response from those in the chain of command who would say " Damn Sergeant D you don't look over weight" !! I have been retired almost 16 years and I would have thought this program would have gone bye bye. Sadly I saw a lot of quality personnel get flagged and forced out while I was in. I often question was this a tool to be used to thin out the herd or was it a tool to only have lean mean fighting machines in the ranks. <br /><br />Only in my opinion do I think it is a very discriminatory program and the numbers developed by the people in the powers that be are going to be the rule. For me I question just how do they come up with these numbers and what are they based on. If a service member is highly motivated and dedicated and has no problems meeting all standards this tool is really archaic and needs to be sent to the bone yard for counter productive regulations. On the other hand the service member is morbidly obese and cant meet standards they should be chaptered out.

2016-01-02T16:46:24-05:00 2016-01-02T16:46:24-05:00 LTC Donell Kelly 1211318

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Complete BS!

2016-01-02T18:13:22-05:00 2016-01-02T18:13:22-05:00 LTC Donell Kelly 1211508

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My prior post was more succinct, so let me explain my position. I have a friend, an AF Nurse officer who was PCS'd to LRMC in 2004. She was an OR nurse/supervisor during her tenure there. She was there during the 2 Fallujah's, the DFAC bombing, and through 2005 &amp; more than half of 2006. She worked ungodly hours in the OR, including during the time in '04 when the recovery room beds were expanded into ICU beds because the wards/ICU were FULL. <br />The injuries to these service memebers were horrificl, as only battle wounds can be. She's retired now, and as she retired from LRMC, she was not given an award at her retirement, because she was flagged for being overweight. YES, SHE WAS OVERWEIGHT, BUT SHE WAS ALSO HANGING ON BY HER FINGERNAILS TO TAKE GOOD CARE OF ALL WHO CAME THROUGH HER OR'S, DESPITE CHRONIC PAIN IN HER HANDS AND LEGS, AND DESPITE BEING TREATED LIKE CRAP BY THE AF COL IN CHARGE OF ALL LRMC AF STAFF MEMBERS. SHE PUT HER PATIENTS FIRST, AND CONTINUED TO TAKE THE VERY BEST CARE THAT THEY GOT WHAT THEY NEEDED, AND CONSIDERED IT AN HONORTO DO SO. So, basically, the AF policy and similar DOD branch policies, essentially shit on what you've done for 20 years and what you've gone through to ensure that your patients got what they needed.<br />That's a travesty, and I frankly don't want to hear from any 20 somethings sayiing she should have maintained your weight. What she did was maintain her skills, her devotion and her integrity, and that's worth far more than what a damn scale says!

2016-01-02T20:45:56-05:00 2016-01-02T20:45:56-05:00 SPC Nathan Freeman 1211807

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The army only cares about your last best day. When you're broken, they throw you away. I never put much stock in retirement. I went reserve and started my own business. The best bet is to write your own paycheck. In twenty years, I'll be wealthy and unemployable.

2016-01-03T01:18:46-05:00 2016-01-03T01:18:46-05:00 1SG Ernest Schmidt 1214829

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Just want to say that is very unfair the soldier has been a leader before he/she became over weight they deserve a retirement award

2016-01-04T17:26:20-05:00 2016-01-04T17:26:20-05:00 SFC James Young 1219396

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I wonder if someone made this individual go to a "mandatory" retirement ceremony? Oh wait, those are optional? I was blessed with a COC that cared about myself and my peers as we retired. They were AMAZING!!! I also know for a fact there were others with Chains of Management that didn't care about them whatsoever. I never wore my retirement award and like others said, how is your resume? Further, how are your interviewing skills? Networking? Etc. There are a lot of good leaders who truly take care of Soldiers exiting service. There are also a lot that are idiots when it comes to exiting Soldiers. And we wonder why the DOD spends nearly a billion $ a year on unemployment.<br /><br />I care about this individual. Could you please have them connect with me here and I will invite them to my LinkedIn. I have coached a lot of people into careers. Hey, got myself one too and I am happy.<br />I am not a part of a non profit, just one vet who likes to share any knowledge I have to set brethren and sisteren up for success.<br /><br />Devaluing someones service who dedicated half their lifespan is so stupid. When you are under a year, who cares how much you weigh and how many stupid pushups you can do? Why don't you proof their resumes? Send them to TAPS and NOT call them a thousand times? I bet the standards horn tooters in this thread would have used that same SSG for Staff Duty or as a Barracks Manager in a heartbeat. Here is another reason why I am so glad to be a retiree. Idiotic.

2016-01-06T20:27:32-05:00 2016-01-06T20:27:32-05:00 SSG Ronald Colwell 1270460

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think if you served honorably you deserve it. when I MEB at 22 years, on my last two days my 1sgt asked if I wanted a retirement award. I looked at him point blank and said no, I don't need shit from this company. and walked out, was this out of line yes, I just wanted to be outta there. I feel the command should not ask if you want one, they should do one anyway, and you know awards take forever to process, with timelines. not done 2 days til your retired

2016-01-31T02:59:37-05:00 2016-01-31T02:59:37-05:00 SCPO Private RallyPoint Member 1357917

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No.

2016-03-05T23:45:06-05:00 2016-03-05T23:45:06-05:00 SSgt Donnavon Smith 1720350

<div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-98830"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fshould-someone-be-denied-a-retirement-award-after-20-years-of-service-and-4-deployments-because-they-re-flagged-for-being-overweight%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Should+someone+be+denied+a+retirement+award%2C+after+20+years+of+service+and+4+deployments%2C+because+they%27re+flagged+for+being+overweight%3F&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fshould-someone-be-denied-a-retirement-award-after-20-years-of-service-and-4-deployments-because-they-re-flagged-for-being-overweight&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AShould someone be denied a retirement award, after 20 years of service and 4 deployments, because they&#39;re flagged for being overweight?%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-someone-be-denied-a-retirement-award-after-20-years-of-service-and-4-deployments-because-they-re-flagged-for-being-overweight" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="5770a09ac2a558bce76b108bd58a32a1" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/098/830/for_gallery_v2/e874c4a9.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/098/830/large_v3/e874c4a9.jpg" alt="E874c4a9" /></a></div></div>I submit to you Major General Henry Knox. He was worthless (rollseyes) and should have been chaptered out (regardless of whether or not he was essential in winning the war)

2016-07-15T14:48:38-04:00 2016-07-15T14:48:38-04:00 MAJ Paul Clark 3017370

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>They can&#39;t. They have to allow your retirement if you are In your 19+ year of ACTIVE service and the flag is required to be lifted to allow the writing of a retirement award.

2017-10-20T11:55:56-04:00 2017-10-20T11:55:56-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 3295756

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My retirement award is up in the S1 world somewhere right now. I honestly don&#39;t care if it gets downgraded to a slap on the ass.

2018-01-26T14:24:26-05:00 2018-01-26T14:24:26-05:00 PFC Elijah Rose 3296876

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Great goodness who would make that rule! It&#39;s so rediculous and yet I wouldn&#39;t be surprised if it were actually true...

2018-01-26T21:16:32-05:00 2018-01-26T21:16:32-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 3320644

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>People who are pro Tape test apparently believe that having no stomach and more chins than Chinese book makes someone fitter than a professional athlete.

2018-02-03T18:25:34-05:00 2018-02-03T18:25:34-05:00 SGM Bill Frazer 3593935

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Should they- by regulation they are. Why did the individual allow it to happen? It is after all a personal responsibility.

2018-05-02T10:35:35-04:00 2018-05-02T10:35:35-04:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 4157826

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Sounds stupid to me.

2018-11-25T18:13:45-05:00 2018-11-25T18:13:45-05:00 CWO4 Gene A. 4157866

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ens Fleming (only Naval entry) makes a compelling argument. Serve, if you get to 20 plus years you&#39;ve completed your obligation. Have your ceremony or, not. Get your DD214, move on, while knowing you represented your country. Those ribbons and medals will gather dust in your shadow box. Memories will be sufficient for life.

2018-11-25T18:36:38-05:00 2018-11-25T18:36:38-05:00 LTC Donell Kelly 4157947

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Not only no, but hell no. Maybe weight has always been an issue for this NCO, or maybe not. If this NCO has deployed 4 times, there may be other health issues going on; low thyroid function, sleep apnea, PTSD. All can be part of the picture. Good enough to deploy 4 times , yet not good enough to get a retirement award is cruel &amp; a stain on the command.

2018-11-25T19:11:19-05:00 2018-11-25T19:11:19-05:00 SP5 Tim Fenoglia 4157951

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>War time no, peace time yes. I&#39;m assuming you were givin more than one opportunity to drop the slop unless you&#39;re a bodybuilder patiently waiting on a waiver. Peace out brother.

2018-11-25T19:15:39-05:00 2018-11-25T19:15:39-05:00 SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr 4606589

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No they should get it any way.

2019-05-05T16:31:55-04:00 2019-05-05T16:31:55-04:00 SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr 4606591

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>yes they should get it any way.

2019-05-05T16:32:21-04:00 2019-05-05T16:32:21-04:00 SFC David Bentley 4606644

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I retired a year ago, the SFC and the CW4 that retired before me and myself and a SSG that retired after were denied both a retirement award and retirement ceremony. There is no requirement for you to get a retirement anything.

2019-05-05T17:06:24-04:00 2019-05-05T17:06:24-04:00 TSgt Private RallyPoint Member 4606678

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>How about pushed out by command by denying you a chance to reenlist at 18 years 11 months of Honorable service because you were flagged because of a back injury that happened on duty? What can I do you get a chance to fulfill the dream of retiring that I had since I first joined.

2019-05-05T17:24:53-04:00 2019-05-05T17:24:53-04:00 CPL Jay Strickland 4606719

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It happens. Sorry it happened to you. I was denied an ets award because I pissed off an E7 who had the ear of the CSM.

2019-05-05T17:49:05-04:00 2019-05-05T17:49:05-04:00 SGT Alejandro Benavides 4606748

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Once you’re retired, awards are just pretty ribbons that mean nothing in the civilian world. Granted, some awards come with some perks in the civilian world, not all. Just keep your head up as you’re walking out with your DD-214 on hand and a retirement check every month.

2019-05-05T18:08:53-04:00 2019-05-05T18:08:53-04:00 SSG Jerel Parker 4606969

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I find it really interesting that even after all these years of the OVERWEIGHT soldier, it is still a stigma in the Army. I was in the Army (71-93) when then Chief of Staff, General Rogers, came up with the Hollywood Soldier program. He set standards that made it a crime to be fit, even if you had a few extra pounds and did not pass the then used calipers that pinched your skin to see how much supposed fat you had on your body, then later on they went to the measuring of your upper arm, and neck. I had the fear of being overweight hanging over me for most of my career. I had soldiers that were overweight, and did nothing about it, but I was always conscious of my weight, and kept as close as I could to the standards. I participated in sports, ran when possible, and haunted the gym constantly. But my body type, and fat to muscle ratio made it tough. But, I made it to retirement, and did every job asked of me as well as any Hollywood Soldier. In fact I was a platoon sergeant, NCOIC, and coach in sports on quite a few major military installations serving right along side all of those fit soldiers. I never did agree with the weight program because it did not allow for all of the different body shapes, and sizes. I had a soldier under me who was six foot six, and supposedly overweight, but did not have an ounce of fat on him. The Army succumbed to looks rather than soldiering skills, because I knew quite a few soldiers on the border of being overweight, and they could out soldier any prima donna looking, mamby pamby by the regs Hollywood soldier, and I would go to war with any of them. Not every man/woman can look the part of a slim type soldier, because some of our bodies are just ordinary run of the mill country styles groomed by hard work, and tailored to keep us as healthy as we can be. Just because we don&#39;t look like movie stars, does not mean we can&#39;t do the job. I did my job for twenty years in the Army, and proud of my accomplishments, and did not expect any medals or fanfare for any of my deeds, just a little respect, and loyalty to the fact I was representing my country to the best of my ability. The Army is the backbone of our services, and when we mess with the standards of our soldiers we had better be sure it is to help them, not hurt them, because they are Americans representing all walks of life, and all parts of the country, so do them right, and make them proud to be Soldiers, not drag them through unnecessary regulations that should have never been instituted. Keep the Army strong, and make it an organization men and women are proud to serve in. We are all Americans, and we all don&#39;t look alike so be fair and make the regulations at least reasonable to enforce and maintain, without disrespecting our soldiers who only want to serve. All the services keep us safe, and our way of life is maintained and protected by them. We have asked our services to go out into harms way, and engage any and all forces intent on bringing us down, and whether or not they look like a movie star should not be a criteria to their being the best soldier, sailor, or pilot. They should be proud to serve, and proud to represent their respective service without worrying how they look....

2019-05-05T20:32:13-04:00 2019-05-05T20:32:13-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 4608224

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well honestly if your retiring who really cares about another award they dont really help outside of the military so id say screw it and prepare to enjoy civilian life have a plan A B and C when you get out

2019-05-06T10:23:48-04:00 2019-05-06T10:23:48-04:00 COL James T. (Tom) Faust 4608599

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I believe (by regulation) that being flagged for any reason stops any positive personnel action and a retirement award (or any award) is a positive personnel action. Not agreeing or disagreeing, just that is what I think is still in the ARs?

2019-05-06T12:58:38-04:00 2019-05-06T12:58:38-04:00 SSG Mark Matteson 4608754

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No, let them retire with dignity

2019-05-06T13:49:29-04:00 2019-05-06T13:49:29-04:00 2015-12-29T12:55:00-05:00