Should the Air Force allow or reinstate Warrant Officers in the more technical career fields?

2017-07-01T12:38:35-04:00

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2017 12:42 PM

2017-07-01T12:42:46-04:00

Many of the other services have them and they are effective as SMEs. I personally would choose to have them. My last assignment I had a senior level shop with CWOs and O-3s. They CWOs can concentrate on the mission while the JOs get pulled left and right for other tasking.

Response by LTC Orlando Illi made Jul 1 at 2017 12:44 PM

2017-07-01T12:44:21-04:00

Maybe as Firearms Instructors - Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Cupla

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2017 12:46 PM

2017-07-01T12:46:42-04:00

TSgt McClish - I’m not following what exactly the question is that you are asking. You state “should the AF allow “more” technical fields WO’s” but the AF does not have WO’s any longer. Are you asking if the AF should reinstate the WO grades? Can you please clarify? Thanks.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jul 1 at 2017 12:57 PM

2017-07-01T12:57:57-04:00

The Warrant grades should be brought back

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jul 1 at 2017 4:10 PM

2017-07-01T16:10:55-04:00

Never understood why they did away with them in the first place.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Jul 2 at 2017 2:02 AM

2017-07-02T02:02:43-04:00

I believe that they should. By allowing so the AF can become tactically and technically proficient.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2017 7:05 AM

2017-07-02T07:05:04-04:00

Obviously I am biased in regards to this question, but services with Warrant Officers will often tell you that having someone with the subject matter expertise of an NCO with the authority of a commissioned officer in many different specialized fields is a force multiplier. Warrant Officers are single-track specialty officers that help to create more capable units because now you have officers who can focus on one specialized thing in particular as opposed to having "generalists" (such as having just a military intelligence officer, you can now have an officer which focuses one aspect such as "signals intelligence" or "counterintelligence"). However, talking to many Air Force officers over the years I doubt they will ever return to this model due to the officer/pilot-centric culture they have.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 2 at 2017 10:16 AM

2017-07-02T10:16:44-04:00

Never understood why we got rid of them in the first place. The Army WO's I served with were some of the most technically proficient souls I've ever met. It's easier to focus on perfecting your craft when you aren't burdened down with writing EPR's, awards packages, Top 3/Top 4 meetings, Airman's Advisory group meetings, volunteer activities, and the other [login to see] things Today's Airman has to focus on that has NOTHING to do with their AFSC to remain competitive for promotions. Nevermind that some have no desire to be in leadership roles and would rather stay in the technical aspect of their job. (yeah, I fully expect to get fragged by my fellow NCO's for those comments but you know it's the truth)

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 2 at 2017 11:11 AM

2017-07-02T11:11:28-04:00

Based on the experience of the other Services, I believe it's time for the Air Force to bring back WOs. The basic assumption must be that WOs are experts in their field, but not leaders in the chain of command. There are many areas in which WOs might serve as the most senior experts in their field. Here's my list of possible areas in which WOs might work out well IMO:
-Intelligence
-Criminal investigation
-Legal (paralegals)
-Nurses (2-year degree/ADN)
-Deployment planning
-Mission Command
-Drone Operations (drone pilots)
-Airborne battle command, ISR, electronic warfare, and gunnery
-Aircraft Operations (pilots)

A few of these require some explanation.

Criminal investigation. AFOSI agents often work in civilian clothing and seldom don a uniform with their real rank and name. Some are enlisted and some are officers. This is a good career field for WOs because the investigators that come up through the enlisted ranks could move up to WO and handle the difficult investigations. As WOs they wouldn't need to worry about advancing though the command structure, but focus on their job.

Paralegals don't require a bachelors degree to be certified and licensed in most states. Their help in legal offices is very valuable to the AF members because they do a lot of routine legal stuff and can be more available than lawyers. A WO would be the most expert of paralegals and provide technical guidance to other paralegals.

-Nurses. Many community colleges educate Associate Degree Nurses (ADN) (2-year degree). Most states will grant them an RN if they pass the test. The Air Force could hire them as WOs. BSN (4-year degree) nurses would still come in as commissioned officers, the AF would need fewer of these to fill the supervisory and command positions only.

Airborne battle command, etc. These are the people who work in the back of aircraft with "E" or "M"in their designation, such as E-3, EC-130, MC-130. Enlisted personnel in these specialties would have a chance to advance to WOs. In some cases they might be able to replace commissioned officers is some mission areas. Also allow a similar pathway for enlisted who are gunners and sensor operators in the AC-130s.

Pilots. The Army has a well developed Aviation Warrant program. The Air Force could model a similar program for its pilot force. WO drone operators could replace more expensive commissioned officer drone pilots. As for manned aircraft, many pilots would jump at the chance to only perform their operational duty, flying, for an entire career. Because they won't be competing to be Chief of Staff of the AF, they will concentrate on flying the aircraft and air operations. They could be instructors and evaluators, flight lead qualified, but never "commanders."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2017 2:47 AM

2017-07-03T02:47:37-04:00

I suppose so, you are the odd Branch out.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2017 10:33 AM

2017-07-03T10:33:58-04:00

MSgt Jason McClish A buddy (who is currently going through flight school) & I have had this discussion going for some time. I think we both came to the conclusion that it might aid in the pilot retention crisis in a small manner by allowing WOs to be the UAV supervisors/pilots, instead of having full commission being in that post. It would allow for promotion for those UAV pilots who have been doing it for some time, and open up the field for others coming in that don't want to fly manned birds, but do want to fly.
We go back and forth, and the more time he has at flight school, the topic moves a little one way or the other.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2017 1:16 AM

2017-07-05T01:16:54-04:00

I'm not sure what the Air Force structure is like to give an informed decision but while I was going through warrant officer candidate school I met several Air Force enlisted who transferred over because they wanted to become pilots. I am unsure as to why they couldn't be pilots in the Air Force but there must be a valid reason as to why they decided to change branches completely to be able to become pilots. Is the transition to officer difficult? What is the process?

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 5 at 2017 11:46 AM

2017-07-05T11:46:49-04:00

If they want to? They work pretty well in the other services but it is really up to that service and their needs.

Response by CWO3 John Smith made Jul 12 at 2017 4:03 PM

2017-07-12T16:03:19-04:00

I understand that the introduction of the E-8 and E-9 paygrades was planned to replace the Warrant Grades back in the late '50's. The Navy then stopped selecting new Warrants but after a couple of years it was decided that Warrants were necessary so they resumed selections. I suppose that the AF didn't want them back. Of course the existing AF Warrants continued on to complete their careers.

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Oct 9 at 2017 8:44 PM

2017-10-09T20:44:46-04:00

Last WO’s I remember was in the 1960s. I want to say they let them retire out and just never had them again. By the way people talk most senior NCOs are to busy to run a branch or do their jobs because of other business. Looks like they are pretty well loaded up with extra requirements and almost have to preform these extra duties or never get promoted. I caught extra duties but I had the time to supervise my branch. And yes I think the military is to much of a social expertierment.

Response by MAJ Wayne MacKirdy made Oct 10 at 2017 6:06 PM

2017-10-10T18:06:32-04:00

Absolutely! There are so many skilled technicians who can focus on the mission without the complications of leadership issues.

Response by SSgt Julius Bob Midgett made Oct 10 at 2017 7:11 PM

2017-10-10T19:11:24-04:00

The warrants usually know more than the commissioned of commensurate grades. The Marine gunners were a group who knew the technical aspects better than any commissioned could learn in their short time experience. The Marine gunners were among the most respected
Ranks in the Corps

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Oct 11 at 2017 6:52 AM

2017-10-11T06:52:19-04:00

I've weighed in previously on this topic but wish to comment further. It is my opinion that the USAF lost a great deal of technical expertise when it eliminated the Warrants. With today's military becoming more and more technical a sector needs to be inserted where those with expertise can be placed to bolster a particular section. One such area is the use of UAVs. A Warrant Officer is one who is considered an expert in a particular area and you could add a Warrant to the Chain of Command to strengthen the chain. Any commissioned officer can lead a unit. Does that leader understand the complexities of a particular technical area when his/her specialty may be in an unrelated field? Bring them back...

Response by Lt Col Mike Taint made Oct 11 at 2017 12:54 PM

2017-10-11T12:54:58-04:00

My theory - the AF senior leadership was afraid that there would be a push for most pilots to be warrant, rather than commissioned officers, as they are in the Army. Having heard pilots complain many times "I just want to fly" it seems this would have been a good retention option.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 11 at 2017 8:53 PM

2017-10-11T20:53:08-04:00

Nah, no point. Need SME's? Train your NCO's better. Short pilots? Train enlisted. Same result, half the paycheck. There's no need to pay extra for skills that are easily taught to anyone or that should be expected from other leaders anyway... We need to expect more of the personnel we already have, most of whom are supposed to be Subject Matter Experts anyway...

Response by 1stSgt Jim Smith Jr. made Mar 9 at 2018 3:18 AM

2018-03-09T03:18:56-05:00

Warrant Officers certainly! Bring them back!

Response by SSgt Marine Myles made Mar 11 at 2018 1:27 PM

2018-03-11T13:27:11-04:00

The Air Force missing out Warrant Officers are on the Pay Chart for a reason. SMEs who take great pride and are constant students of their profession. Helping to improve and mold their entire fields Juniors and Seniors

Response by SPC Jake Robinson made Mar 11 at 2018 9:10 PM

2018-03-11T21:10:04-04:00

WO are a hybrid of NCO and officers. They get shit done but you hardly interact with them.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 13 at 2018 8:03 PM

2018-03-13T20:03:14-04:00

The most technical service denies people the chance to be WO's just makes your mind explode. Talk about a pansy officer corp.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 13 at 2018 8:31 PM

2018-03-13T20:31:05-04:00

Someone tell me why a Captain runs a motor pool in the AF? Hell the army can get a W to do it, and often a Senior NCO can fill in. Are you guys that ate up?

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Apr 2 at 2020 11:08 PM

2020-04-02T23:08:33-04:00

do they make coffee cups big enough for chair force warrants?

Response by SrA James Cannon made Apr 3 at 2020 10:06 AM

2020-04-03T10:06:36-04:00

Yeah, this was a decision the Air Force made back in the 1950s. We are now in the second decade of the 21st century. It’s time for the Air Force to man up and throw away a 1950s train of thought that is really hampering the service as a whole. And also bring back “buck sergeant”.

Response by MSgt Tim Ulery made Apr 3 at 2020 12:22 PM

2020-04-03T12:22:50-04:00

After Vietnam, the Warrants could have been utilized to keep many RIF'd Captains in the AF. A lot of them got out because of the RIF. My NCOIC when I was a Ssgt was a former Captain. He stuck around as a TSgt so he could retire as a captain.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2020 4:51 PM

2020-04-03T16:51:21-04:00

It's definitely needed on the Guard side. But on the active duty side it would allow Tech. Sgts. To be mech. Not shop supervisor.

Response by Lt Col DuWayne Heupel made Apr 3 at 2020 10:12 PM

2020-04-03T22:12:38-04:00

Use the WOs you retain pilots. Have WOs pick up the staff duties pilots don't like. And/or, use WOs as pilots themselves. Like the Army, they could fly the light recon aircraft an SO choppers to relieve officers to fighters, etc.

Response by CWO4 Angelo Zuino made Apr 5 at 2020 3:29 PM

2020-04-05T15:29:37-04:00

Yes as a navy cwo4(ret). Best move for technical fields. Especially aircraft maintenance

Response by SFC David Hart made Apr 6 at 2020 11:28 AM

2020-04-06T11:28:55-04:00

There were a lot of Warrant officers in the Army and theyy specialized in their field. Met a few in the Air Force and they were the same.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Apr 6 at 2020 1:08 PM

2020-04-06T13:08:24-04:00

I was Army and we had warrant officers in my technical area. field artillery radar.
I was a repair person, and received several recommendations for warrant officer candidate school.
I also received paperwork directly from DA for going to WOCS. At that time the army required only a score of 105 for commissioned officers, and 110 for warrant officers on the AFQT.

Response by CMSgt Sam Thomas made Apr 6 at 2020 3:53 PM

2020-04-06T15:53:23-04:00

Had some WOs when I enlisted and i always thought they filled a need for techical expertise.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Apr 6 at 2020 4:07 PM

2020-04-06T16:07:07-04:00

Yes.

Response by SGT Dan Theman made Apr 7 at 2020 12:47 PM

2020-04-07T12:47:47-04:00

We know full well that the warrant officer ranks works...

Response by SrA Ray Fosnot made Apr 7 at 2020 1:22 PM

2020-04-07T13:22:04-04:00

They are officers so I would think that would allow them to fly if qualified. As fast as pilots come and go this might help that.

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Apr 7 at 2020 4:58 PM

2020-04-07T16:58:57-04:00

Read the current Army regs and literature on Warrant Officers. We are technical experts and leaders. If the Air Force does bring back Warrant Officers, they should look at how the other services, especially Army, does it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2020 3:46 AM

2020-05-10T03:46:21-04:00

The Army is so short of Warrant Officers right now because the Army WOC school is just like going to basic training all over again, why would the Army send Senior NCO's back to a basic training having instructors treating and giving demerits to E7 or E8's?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2020 7:06 AM

2020-05-14T07:06:34-04:00

According to the Air Force All They Have Is Technical Positions. They are the "MOST" (sarcasm) intelligent force. well they were until Space Force was stood up.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2020 7:51 AM

2020-05-18T07:51:36-04:00

Yes

Response by TSgt David Olson made Jun 27 at 2020 1:10 PM

2020-06-27T13:10:06-04:00

One field is the AFOSI.

Response by CWO4 William Romska made Jun 27 at 2020 3:20 PM

2020-06-27T15:20:54-04:00

Why not, there is nothing between an nco and a commisioned officer.