Should the Air Force bring back Warrant Officers?

2013-10-27T02:38:19-04:00

First some background, the U.S. Air Force stopped producing Warrant Officers approximately four decades ago; in light of upcoming force structure changes, do you think that it is realistic to them back? If so, what are some of the associated pros and cons to consider? Has the Air Force suffered, is it better off... or does it even matter? The idea here is to begin an inter-service discussion on the merits of Warrant Officers in the AF, and in light of reducing budgets and change throughout the ranks, do we need to consider bringing them back? There's no right or wrong answers here, just an informed discussion on possibilities and precedents. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, so pull up a keyboard and let's get this thing started, thanks for all that you do, and... see you all in the discussion threads!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2013 12:16 PM

2013-10-29T12:16:19-04:00

I have always been a supporter of bringing them back. We could cut some company grade officer slots and move a select few SNCOs into the WO ranks. I think this would be particularly good for Maintenance Officers. The Cons would be based on who was looking at it. For Os it would be changing up the status quo. For Es it would remove some top level jobs from SNCOs that wouldn't become WOs.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2013 12:00 AM

2013-11-05T00:00:20-05:00

Sir, from what I was told from a friend and peer of mine, they were able to still submit a packet to request a WO rank in the AF today.  Obviously their packet will come back denied, but the realization that requests can be still submitted in only gave me more questions.  To me, I felt as if the WO ranks are in a "dormant" state rather than having it permanently closed.<div><br></div><div>Aside from that random comment I just gave, I can reply with saying that I see other services have generally more complete structures in leadership positions than not having them at all.</div><div>Case and point: Right now my chain of command up to our Squadron level has a (double-digit) number of people with important responsibilities.  It's a top heavy leadership chain down to me and I am getting very questionable decisions along the way. I only say questionable because one leader gives me an order while later another leader comes to me and gives me a complete opposite order from the previous.  My peers and I can't help but stand around and wonder what to do when we see this "Water-tower" chain-of-command in our duty section.  This is where WO come in: They cover the gap and provide assistance of my superior officers' questionable calls while enforcing us to complete the mission.</div>

Response by SGT Thomas Sullivan made Nov 5 at 2013 2:58 PM

2013-11-05T14:58:22-05:00

True story, down in MacDill AFB, I was lucky enough to meet one of the few surviving retired AF warrant officers. This conversation came up with him while talking with a few fellow soldiers and airman at a "getting out" meeting.<br><br>The general consensus at least from people working in STRATCOM and Missidle/Space is that we have too many young Air Force Officers filling roles that could and probably should be filled by enlisted and warrant officer roles. Especially in the satellite control and missile control fields.<br><br>Giving Enlisted members in the airforce a chance to fly as warrants I think would also be an excellent tool at retaining some very good skillsets in the military.<br>

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2013 6:11 PM

2013-12-28T18:11:43-05:00

MAJ Burns,

I think the AF has been doing just fine without WOs for this long--so why bring them back? Simply put, there is no need.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2014 10:19 PM

2014-01-11T22:19:45-05:00

Here's a great thread highlighting a recent article about the potential return of the Warrant Officer to the AF ranks, definitely food for thought... thanks SSgt Moskal for posting!

Should the Air Force Reinstate the Warrant Officer Program

An Article appeared in the Air Force Times some time ago about Warrant Officers and why it is time that they return to the ranks. The link to this article is here -http://www.airforcetimes.com/article...

Response by MSgt Raymond Hickey made Jan 11 at 2014 10:20 PM

2014-01-11T22:20:00-05:00

When I was first enlisted in 1968, the rational was that the WO ranks were being fazed out of the AF because the "new" super enlisted ranks of SMSgt and CMSgt were slotted to fill the WO ranks.  I served for 20 years, 16 years as a Security Pollice, security specialist and 4 years as an Officer Recruiter.  During my time as a SP, I was fortunate enough to serve with JTF-Bravo in Hondurous, there I served with USMC, USA and USAF personnel.  There were some WO personnel as well as senior enlisted and officer personnel.  I was always intrigued with the amount of respect and deference that was afforded USAF senior enlisted by the other branches, additionaly USAF senior enlisted, myself, a MSgt, included, were given more responsibility and in some cases more authority then our peers and WO's from the other services.  I think that the USAF did an excellent job of educating and preparing senior NCO's to fill the void that was left by the fazeing out of the WO positions, in my opinion, to re-introduce the WO positions would do nothing more then add another layer of command that is not needed.  Layers of command do no get the job done, having well educated/trained and motivated individuals is paramount to successful accomplishment of the mission.       

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 2:15 AM

2014-01-12T02:15:24-05:00

<p>In the Marines we considered our WO's as the 'Mavericks' - they were the enlisted members (with a 2yr degree) that moved up into the 'officer' arena.  They were the officers that understood the 'enlisted' because they had been one of them.  There was a lot more respect given to the WO's because of this and they expected more out of us enlisted then a lot of the 'commission' officers did.  This was partially due to their inside knowledge and background as a prior enlisted.  </p><p> </p><p>I had wanted to be a WO when I was in the USAF - but they had been eliminated way before I transitioned over from the USMC.  I believe that the USAF should go back to the WO's and faze out the enlisted ranks of SMSgt and CMSgt.  </p>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 14 at 2014 8:15 PM

2014-03-14T20:15:27-04:00

No, there's no need. If you feel like you're lacking technical expertise, then you need to revamp your NCOES and expect more of your Non Commisioned Officers.

Your NCO's are already supposed to be subject matter experts. If you feel like they aren't fitting the bill, then you need to fix what you have, not make up new positions. I think it's generally a better investment to fix what you have...

Response by Cpl David Hall made Mar 24 at 2014 11:56 PM

2014-03-24T23:56:24-04:00

fist and foremost I apologize I have not been able to participate in awhile.second Regardless of business structure the warrant officer program should not have been Cancelled inmy opinion, one itgave hard charging enlisted an opportunity that perhaps their b ackgound would not allow, it also allows the ability to Keep top eXperiance By allowing moves and promotions which in turn Keeps the Lower ranks unstagnated, and Motivated to stay in. The Warrent officer programs are, with no disrespect intended, your officers who not only have the hands on technical knowledge and schooling that the enlisted respect;as well as certain degree of for lack of a better word common sense to keep the younger officers and enlisted in line. Just my two cents though.

Response by MSgt Barry Wilkins made Apr 15 at 2014 6:18 AM

2014-04-15T06:18:03-04:00

I met only one Warrant Officer in my career, and wondered why we didn't have more. When the senior enlisted ranks were established, E-8 ad E-9) it was my understanding that all WOs would be phased out. Only the AF did that. I think there are many billets that a WO could fill, and save the officers for other areas. I like the Major's idea is well worth considering.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2014 9:42 PM

2014-04-16T21:42:20-04:00

In the ICBM world, allowing NCOs and SNCOs to become warrant officers will help retain not only bodies, but also the valuable experience they have. Warrant officers have a longer tenure than enlisted, so an experienced missileman can provide continuity if he or she is retained.

Response by CW4 Glen Nardin made May 21 at 2014 1:17 PM

2014-05-21T13:17:24-04:00

This thread has been alive for a few months, but this is this first I've noticed, so please excuse if I'm repeating what others have added. As a retired CW4 I would have a ton to add on this, but let me make a couple important statements regarding any potential return of warrants.

1. Before the question of "if" warrants would be returned to AF duty, the AF must define their place in the chain of command. Warrants in US military are commissioned officers. That, there, is a mouthful. I was a commander for 13 years, from W1-W4. How does a warrant position affect the rating system, the chain of command, and is the AF unified on that decision? I ask this because despite major advances in understanding the role of warrant officers in the Army, that point is still being debated.

2. A warrant officer is a technically and tactically trained officer, specializing in areas of expertise and often employed as advisors to the commander and team leaders of critical units. Warrants are not "3rd lieutenants," senior-senior enlisted" or "cheap" officers for 66% of the cost of O-grade officers-- all of which are the misguided views that warrants often have to guard against.

If the Air Force was to bring back the W1-W5 ranks in order to be a force multiplier, all these things have to be clarified from "Top down."

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 2:44 PM

2014-05-21T14:44:00-04:00

During my joint time, I really didn't see a significant difference in our Senior NCOs versus the Warrant Officers. The only benefit I would ever see is in perception in joint environment. Our force is so educated and we put a lot on our SNCOs. I believe we got it right! Only time it would be beneficial is when dealing with others services in the respect department.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2014 10:11 PM

2014-05-22T22:11:16-04:00

Should the AF appoint people to the Warrant Officer Corps. In short I would say yes. Having a unique perspective on this subject, in that I started off my service in the AF and after reaching TSgt I made the switch to Warrant Officer. The Warrant Officer brings unique skills in the fact that they are not concerned about command as RLOs are, and they are more focused on their craft than the Enlisted. While the reasoning that the AF stopped appointing Warrants in documented it is also flawed. Currently, for a person to be promoted to E9 they are not doing the job from the time they are a MSgt instead they manage people and account for equipment.
Now on to the cons, just as with the Army there is no defined way to treat Warrants. RLOs want to lump us in with them however, we are more concerned with the technical side. It is also figured that because we are the experts that we do most of the work when things go south. Instead the Enlisted should have enough knowledge to get things up a running and we just give them pointers as to items they might have forgot. I recently had an exercise in which I had to bring up two separate sites because the Signal Soldiers were not trained to do the job. This then brings the question of the Warrant doing training (which I will add I am not opposed to but I just need a heads up to conduct training).

Response by Sgt Randy Hill made May 23 at 2014 11:24 AM

2014-05-23T11:24:30-04:00

Yes I was a joint airlift inspector with the power to stop an air mission cold with good reason.I always thought it was wild that I could respectfully tell senior ranking personnel what to do in this setting.(respectfully) The frustration came in knowing that other service personnel,who held similar responsibility, were warrant officers. I am for the Warrant officer positions where technical expertise is needed in conjunction with enormous responsibility. If an airplane had issues I had to prepare for answers.For example, on one occasion my fuel burn calculations on my c141 proved to be right. The navy refueler did not fill the tank completely. A dangerous mistake thankfully they landed at Hickam safely on fumes.

Response by SSgt Michael Hacker made Jun 3 at 2014 2:16 PM

2014-06-03T14:16:08-04:00

IMO, they should've never gotten rid of them. Between WO and SrA/Sgt, I'm not sure which was the worse decision.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 8:02 PM

2014-06-03T20:02:02-04:00

I think the best way to approach this is not "Can the AF use Warrant Officers?", but rather "Can certain career fields in the AF use Warrant Officers?" Being a comm Airman myself, I'll use comm as an example. If you're familiar with comm at all you know that it's made up of several different career fields that must constantly work together in order to be effective. No offense to my SNCOs but IT is a constantly changing world and if you're not actively working in a technical position you can get left behind real quick. How can you effectively orchestrate cohesion between all these career fields when you're behind the learning curve? Aside from that you'll also retain those people that leave the AF for high paying technical jobs just to avoid promoting into that managerial role. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that the WO ranks may not apply to every job, but in a select few could be highly useful.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 12:59 AM

2014-06-07T00:59:42-04:00

I think it should be limited to specific careerfields like pilots and RPa operators. The Army uses E-4's to fly armed Grey Eagles. Why do we need to have 0-3's and 0-4's flying similar airframes and struggling to find followon leadership assignments?

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Aug 30 at 2014 1:23 PM

2014-08-30T13:23:57-04:00

I'm not for sure, but I think that they were called Flight Officers and flew some of the simpler airframes. Does the USAF have them anymore except for the Huey (UH-1)? I think all the Observation and other single engine prop planes are gone, too.

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Sep 16 at 2014 9:51 PM

2014-09-16T21:51:44-04:00

Absolutely!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2014 5:26 AM

2014-09-17T05:26:36-04:00

I suppose it would make sense to bring them back. Not sure in our current climate they would actually do it though. Like Maj Graham stated, putting them in UAV platform might make sense. Having also been a former MQ-1 pilot it would seem to be a better fit for warrants, especially on how many pilots we need to man 24/7 ops. As a pilot and an officer in the UAV we did not have enough relevant extra duty jobs for pilots in the squadron that create the OPR fodder. As an officer we are competing for promotion against other line O's that were able school in residence, where we were put on hold due to manning.

Warrants would be a good fit since there career paths would be to become experts in flying the system and prosecuting a mission. Their promotions would be based on their technical expertise versus being a good additional duty ranger. Have a small cadre of commissioned officers to fill ADO and Ops sup billets and be the top cover for the units operations.

I agree also you can put in jobs that require continuity and have them be technical experts that seem to be filled by a GS 11's through 13's. Where I work as a contractor we have a few GS-13's that do what junior Captains would normally do. This would perfect for a warrant.

Response by MSgt Guillermo Ybarra III (HVAC Recruiter) made Sep 17 at 2014 7:33 AM

2014-09-17T07:33:32-04:00

It's time to bring them back, especially with the push of focusing on our jobs again. Also it would save the AF money. All other branches can't be wrong!

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Sep 17 at 2014 6:28 PM

2014-09-17T18:28:23-04:00

The Air Force is not like other branches of the military. Commissioned Officer responsibilities differ between Army and Air Force at respective paygrades. I only know the aviation side of this discussion, so I guess it really depends on where you are talking. As far as pilots, I don't think the Air Force needs Warrant officers, although many of the Air Force pilots in my unit now love the idea of never having to do command time and just fly a plane. I don't know the enlisted side very well for the Air Force, but at E-7 you can be a 1SG "Shirt" or you can be senior enlisted doing the job, managing personnel the same as a WO1 or CW2 would in the Army. The issue that I would see the most, is how would you fill the Warrant ranks when we are downsizing, and how where would the majority of the pool be from?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 19 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-09-19T12:06:49-04:00

I am a bit ignorant of what the role of WO's in the AF was. If they were brought back, what roles would they fill in?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 10:18 PM

2014-12-08T22:18:19-05:00

how about folding the whole Air Force into the Army Air Corp....yeah I'm going to duck some bricks.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2014 9:50 PM

2014-12-11T21:50:30-05:00

yES

Response by CW4 Glen Nardin made Dec 20 at 2014 7:12 PM

2014-12-20T19:12:19-05:00

Many questions still face the Army in the fair and correct implementation of the warrant officer. Where do they belong in the rank chart when it comes to duty rosters, boards (e.g. administrative action, courts martial, etc.), evaluations, housing authorizations, and wear and appearance of uniforms.

Even though the warrant officer grades have been in the mix for three years short of a century, some do not realize that the chief warrant officer (W2-W5) is a (fully) commissioned officer since 1986 by Title 10 U.S.C. For example, a Chief Warrant Officer 3 is rated as a field grade officer, assigned field grade officer tasks and is expected to perform at the level of a field grade. However, when it comes to housing assignments a CW3 is considered a company grade officer and not eligible for FG housing. The Navy and the Marine Corp have their own interpretations as well and differ in how they are viewed and utilized in their respective service.

So, the question is often, "is W3-4-5 equal to O4-5-6?" The answer is, "Yes, but…" No warrant officer out ranks a 2nd lieutenant, yet, a CW3 friend of mine was recently appointed interim battalion commander. Can a CW4 rate a major? Yes, technically and no, not really. If a CW4 is in a position where the major reports to him, he/she could be rated, but it may not add to the major's career to have a CW4 rater in his/her evaluation. These things are tricky at best and consequential at promotion time.

One more quick point of how warrant officer business gets confusing at times. In most foreign armed services (maybe all, I haven't researched it), the warrant officer is the highest enlisted grade. Other warrant friends of mine had sporadic trouble in collaborating with host country commissioned officers when they (US warrants) were put in charge of operations. The foreign officers would believe that they should be in charge by virtual of their commission and ran interference. It took a salty old warrant's belligerence to straighten out who was ACTUALLY in charge. Alternatively, a major or a lt. colonel in charge of the same operations instead of the CW3 or CW4 may have automatically solved the problem with rank pins alone. If the Air Force would decide to re-incorporate the warrant grades, a study of the other four services would have to be conducted to eliminate the inherited problems.

If you would care to read about the history of the warrant officer, the out-of-print book, "US Army Warrant Officers" is available for free at the WARRANT OFFICER HISTORICAL FOUNDATION. It begins here: https://warrantofficerhistory.org/Hist_of_Army_WO.htm#Index

Army Warrant Officer History - Part I (1918-1996)

Army Warrant Officer History (1918 - 1996)

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Jan 6 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-01-06T14:15:23-05:00

I have always believe that the Air Force should bring back the WO Corps. I believe it more now with these reductions in the officer and enlisted due to force reduction. While it is understandable that there are some AFSC were an WO can not be utilized (example doctors) there are many areas where it is crucial. However, just like in the Army they can be considered technical experts in their field. Below are some examples where the WO Corps will be great to have.

Ops Groups: Finding those enlisted personnel who have an aptitude to fly, the Army utilizes many WO for helicopters. The same principle can be used in the AF as well as for Drones or other airframes. Additionally, WOs can be assigned to lead ATCs, plans, QA, etc.

Security Forces: Especially assigned to units where their is only one or two commissioned officers assigned. examples would be Flight Commanders (WO 1/2) to work along side with the Flight Sergeant (usually a SNCO), CWO (3/4) to fill in section chief duties (S-2: Investigations, S-3 Assistant OPs Officer or as Ops Officer if a commissioned officer is not assigned, S-4 Supply and Logistics, etc) , CWO5s Work along side the Security Forces Manager and Commander as the overall supervision for all WOs

Fire Fighters: The WO1/2 are station chiefs while WO3/4 can be fire chiefs along with SNCOs. CWO5s are lead the over all fire dept. and works with the CE commander as an assistant fire marshal.

LRS/CE: WO1/2 are section chiefs (i.e. lead for POL shift, warehouses shift, etc.) CWO3/4 lead whole sections with their SNCO counterpart, and CWO5 works with the command sections.

MDG: Specialized practitioners that do not require to be a doctor (i.e. Social Workers, Counselors, etc) as well as nursing, and chiefs of sections. While they meet the education requirement to be a commissioned officer with a BS/BA or higher degree, this will allow them the option to be practitioners specifically

I also believe that when an enlisted person reaches E-6 they have a choice of going on to a management track (SNCO) or a technical expert track (Warrant Officer) meeting a set of steps necessary to meet each. Both tracks must require the TSgt has completed NCOA, meets all fitness requirements with at least an overall 80%, and have at a minimum a CCAF degree in the field that are in (exceptions are specialized practitioner). Furthermore, the TSgt must state in writing which track they wish to pursue and be accepted through a board of SNCOs or WO based on EPRs (past 5 years) and recommendations of at least 3 SNCOs or WO, the TSgt may submit to both boards. Boards will meet at the base level annually and a TSgt who has been passed over from the board may resubmit no more than three times. This will allow the AF that ability to invest those deserving while allowing TSgt to reach retirement (20 Years) while allowing the TSgts a chance to progress if passed over previously. Finally, WOs should only consist of about 10% of the total force such as the SNCO corps (WO1/2=MSgt Strength, CWO3/4=SMSgt Strength, and CWO5=CMSgt Strength)

Just for fun: All WO are called either "Warrants" or "Chief Warrants"

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Jan 6 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-01-06T14:35:56-05:00

My experience with Army and Marine Corps Warrant Officers has always been positive on a personal level, but being that I joined the Air Force in 1987, have never experienced that rank in our branch. While I understand all the pros/cons, I do believe that SNCOs serve their purpose in mentoring willing and teachable Junior Officers in their maturation to leadership.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 8:10 PM

2015-06-01T20:10:11-04:00

I'm all for it, especially in those AFSC's that require certifications such as Cyber.

Response by SGT Edward Thomas made Jun 15 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-06-15T11:00:48-04:00

I think it could fill a vital re in the AF. There are many Jr/Sr NCOs that might might be in an AFSC that has limited promotion potential that could otherwise be promoted to WO and not have to fill a position with a 2LT or above and have the department function equal or great than having a commissioned officer. In the Army, our division level COMSEC custodians were always WOs. They had extensive training over the years and that is one way that could benefit both the AF and the member. Or even some maintenance shops wouldn't have to have so many commissioned officers etc.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 15 at 2015 11:02 AM

2015-06-15T11:02:25-04:00

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have the USAF's helicopter pilots become Warrant Officers.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 15 at 2015 11:35 AM

2015-06-15T11:35:38-04:00

The question was looked at in my active duty time (1969-1991) every time the AF thought they would have a pilot shortage. While on active duty, I met some excellent pilots who loved flying for the AF, but has little interest in being a commander. Some were captains and some made major. They had no desire to get out and go to work for the airlines or become crop dusters. The AF looked at ways to retain these officers of active duty while working within an up-or-out officer promotion system. Some captains were allowed to remain on active duty to 20 years in that time frame (1980s). The majors were good to 20 years, but many would have stayed longer. Warrant Officers (Army model) and Limited Duty Officers (Navy model) were considered. Pay disparity became a major item of discussion. The AF considered a separate flight pay scale for WOs that would bring them near parity with their commissioned counterparts. Essentially their gross pay would be like majors but they would wear W-4 (W-5 hadn't been invented yet).

I think it's time for the AF to bring WOs back. Warrants can be a way to create limited duty officers who have a high level of expertise in their career field. The Army has done this successfully, especially with aviation warrants. The RPV career field will grow as unmanned aircraft become more sophisticated and effective. This might be a good place to start the WO program. Look at what the Army did to create their Aviation Warrants and see if it can be adapted to the Air Force RPV community. In the aircrew arena, the addition of Aviation Warrants might offer an alternative pathway for pilots who just want to fly. Again looking at the Army model might be helpful. This would be a major change for the AF because of the strong tradition of pilots being officers and therefore having a minimum of a bachelor's degree. In my experience, it doesn't take a college degree to be a pilot. Additionally, much of the non-flying work I did on active duty could have been handled by a good E-5. Stuff like tracking training requirements and accomplishments, which may have been completely automated by now, was not work that required a degree. It addition, the AF could provide an "off ramp" at the 7-year point for commissioned officer pilots to move to the WO track. I believe many patriotic Americans without a college degree could learn to fly modern AF aircraft and serve their nation admirably. Over the course of a generation of AF members the WO pilot would become accepted and the AF would benefit.

Response by Bryce Englin made Jul 7 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-07-07T22:20:30-04:00

I'm very much a supporter of this and wouldn't be surprised if the call for this goes up in the future. I believe we have many units and AFSCs that could benefit from a manager or functional expert running programs. In these scenarios it would free up our Officers to command and SNCOs to manage our folks. Additionally I also posed this question to Lt Gen Thompson the AFLCMC/CC during his visit to Gunter and while he stated nothing was on the table, he was opened to the idea. I also brought this topic up to some Capts I was mentoring during a recent visit to SOS with the intent that they are future leaders who may have an opportunity to help enable this change. Sometimes the best way to move forward is to plant the seed and let it grow from there.

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made Sep 8 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-09-08T15:40:07-04:00

Bring them back, check out the link to the position paper:
http://www.slideshare.net/MikeEsser1/usafwarrantofficers

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 23 at 2015 4:51 PM

2015-09-23T16:51:03-04:00

I find it grossly irresponsible that the most technical service doesn't use technical officers. Warrants Fly, Command Ships, trouble shoot aircraft, mechanical engines, maintain battalions and brigades worth of Maintenance, and you will put an O-grade in its place? Not the best use of taxpayer funding. I honestly feel you got rid of WO's because the AF had a fear of them.

Response by SSgt Everett Jones made Sep 25 at 2015 1:49 PM

2015-09-25T13:49:26-04:00

When the AF was ordered to increase the number of Warrant Officer, it was also ordered to reduce the number of commissioned officers, which would have cost 120 Generals their jobs. The AF response was to cease the Warrant Officer program. Warrant Officers are still authorized in the AF, but it would reduce the officer ranks by over 40,000. Commissioned Officers in the AF are filling roles that are filled by Warrant Officers and NCO's in the other branches of service. Drones are normally operated by NCO's and enlisted in some branches, but by pilots in the AF. The Warrant Officer ranks also provide a means for some senior enlisted personnel to advance, a means that is denied them in the AF. I have always advocated bringing back the Warrant Officer program, but I don't think the senior Commissioned Officers would ever allow it.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 7:25 PM

2015-09-25T19:25:38-04:00

While AF is at it Army should return SPC levels SP4 etc.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 26 at 2015 11:26 AM

2015-09-26T11:26:13-04:00

I have long advocated that too many commissions are handed out. I wondered why, for example, doctors and lawyers were commissioned. I felt they were excellent candidates for warrants. Super warrant ranks could be created to insure that pay levels would attract skilled specialists, but there was no need to hand out commissions to those who didn't need them to perform their duties.

To truly understand my logic one has to understand the ancillary rights and privileges as well as the duties and responsibilities that are associated with a commission. The duties and responsibilities in particular would tend to get in the way of a highly trained technician or professional who should be focusing on their skills.

It's interesting that I had no idea what those rights, privileges, duties, and responsibilities were until well after I was commissioned. No one explained them in OCS. Apparently they didn't mentioned them in ROTC or West Point either. None of the officers I met who were commissioned in those places were any more knowledgeable than I. I've looked just now on the Internet and have not yet found any reference to them. Interesting.

What are they? They're too numerous to list in detail (and I doubt if I could remember them all) but here's a couple of examples. Commissioned officers are authorized to administer oaths. This one fell on me with a vengeance inasmuch as I shared a hooch with our division reenlistment officer and I was frequently called upon to administer oaths of enlistment when he was out in the field campaigning to recruit more. Commissioned officers are authorized to notarize documents. There aren't any notaries public on the battlefield to legally authenticate documents that soldiers may be required to sign, especially for matters occurring back home. Commissioned officers are authorized to sign legal documents on behalf of ("For") commanders. For example, I signed countless orders issued under the name of the division commanding general. My NCOIC had to instruct me how when I was presented with my first one. (That was some surprise.) A commissioned officer is a limited agent of the United States. (I would need a semester in law school to explain that one.)

I hope that makes my point...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-10-02T21:56:28-04:00

hell yes now they are looking at enlisted drone pilots

Response by TSgt Greg Talbot made Mar 10 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-03-10T13:07:24-05:00

In light of the fact the Air Force is allowing the enlisted to become RPA pilots, yes. I believe that should apply and encourage retaining of a short handed career field.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 28 at 2016 1:28 AM

2016-09-28T01:28:50-04:00

On My first PCS move to the 351st Combat defense Squadron (SAC) at Whiteman AFB, MO in 1966 We actually did have a CWO, Chief warrant Officer,(W4) Homer R. Gunn. who was the only USAF warrant Officer I had ever served with. It seems when the Warrant Officers were phased out SMSgt and CMSgt replaced them. Seems the USAF is the only service that no longer has Warrant Officers. One advantage of the Warrant Officers in the USAF of course was the high level of experience they had. I'm not sure though the USAF had a spot they fit into like the Army found that made good use of Warrant officers esp as pilots which put officers in the aircraft but not making it rank heavy.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2017 10:31 PM

2017-03-26T22:31:29-04:00

Sir, I would have to say yes. In PATRIOT we have two types of warrants, Logistical and tactical. I firmly be live that having a logistical warrant is a great attribute to the branch. They are more than your average maintainer. They are sometimes a lifeline.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 26 at 2017 10:57 PM

2017-03-26T22:57:15-04:00

They should Never have gotten rid of them But thats the folks in the Nose Bleed sections are not always as smart as they think they are...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2017 6:38 PM

2017-03-28T18:38:20-04:00

Col Private RallyPoint Member I think the RPA program is ripe for this rank. They are pulling enlisted in to fly surveillance drones, and pulling officers from jet slots to fly attack drones. You could please many by bringing back the WO ranks & slotting them in the RPA programs (both surveillance & attack).

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Mar 29 at 2017 8:59 AM

2017-03-29T08:59:42-04:00

I say yes. The main reason for me is that we are losing officer pilots at a rate that I don't think we can keep up. We are losing officers period. A lot of them are leaving because of quality of life. If we were to have Warrants that fly,we could make all the drone pilots Warrants and even some of the fixed wing pilots warrants. It would fill a gap that we desperately need filled. They would fly and maybe take on some additional duties at the squadron level but their primary duty will be to keep the planes in the air. Warrants could also run support units freeing officers up for other duties. Just my two cents.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Mar 31 at 2017 6:36 PM

2017-03-31T18:36:03-04:00

Yes, all services has a need for Warrant Officers. These folks have special skills, abilities and leadership ability that is perhaps beyond an NCO's paygrade while they don't really want to be a commissioned officer. I have known a few men while in Korea that went from E7 to CWO2 and I think they really deserved the additional pay and additional respect. My dad used to call them "the bastards of the service" and he and I had many arguments over the statement.

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Aug 2 at 2017 2:33 AM

2017-08-02T02:33:37-04:00

In a word, yes. Speaking myself as a former Air Force officer, it strikes me as ridiculous that ours in the only branch of service without Warrant Officers....just as I consider ridiculous that ours in the only branch wherein an E-4 is not an NCO (or Petty Officer). Just my $0.02 worth.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2017 9:00 AM

2017-09-24T09:00:16-04:00

The USAF is bleeding skilled technicians in several fields and one of the primary reasons they are leaving is that they don't want the headaches of leadership and being supervisors. There is no career path for anyone to be technicians in the USAF. If we had WOs, who were career long technicians (not staff level managers and advisors) we could entice more highly skilled people to stay and capitalize on their skills and the experience that they will accumulate.
We need to stop putting CGOs in technically focused positions because not only are they not really fully trained for it, but it is time that they spend not learning and doing the leading and managing that we expect from them. That gives us inexperienced FGOs and Commanders and that gives us more serious problems to deal with.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Sep 24 at 2017 9:26 AM

2017-09-24T09:26:20-04:00

Warrent Officers to do what other than drone pilots there's no positions for warrents, it's gotten to the point that Snco's have to have a master degree how much more do you have to be qualified to run a shop. My last 8 years at Eglin had a Captain in charge of the engine shop and major was in charge of plains and scheduling and that was in 2004 I'm sure it's wrose now. Just let your NCO's do there job. If you want warrants then open up job fields that that they can do. Drone and Helocopter pilots some smaller transport aircraft. The Air Force was created by Officers for Officers and with few exceptions the entire enlisted force function is to support them. I dought they would alow anything to bridge the gap between enlisted and officers.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 24 at 2017 12:57 PM

2017-09-24T12:57:47-04:00

Lets be honest, a former senior NCO who becomes a Warrant officer, has more knowledge, and will better service the Air Force than a lieutenant, captain, or major. It can be considered a cost cutting method, or a way to more efficiently service our air fleet. It takes 200 men to service one B-2 bomber. You can have a warrant in charge of those 200 men, with senior NCO's overseeing the different parts of aircraft servicing.

Response by PO1 Carlos Rodriguez Jr made Sep 24 at 2017 5:20 PM

2017-09-24T17:20:53-04:00

Well said CW4 Nardin.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2017 7:41 PM

2017-09-24T19:41:29-04:00

Current enlisted UAV pilots would be a great fit for Warrant officer ranks

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-09-24T20:03:14-04:00

Navy got rid of them once. It wasn't long before they brought them back. They found there wasn't enough authority in an E-9 and the O-3 was to much and anything in between too young.

Response by SSG Randall Ford made Sep 24 at 2017 8:17 PM

2017-09-24T20:17:49-04:00

There are a ton of ways the government could save money on different expenditures. Combine things in military like for pilots. Air Force and Navy. Combine both as one. Don't know if AF pilots have done any deck off or on using the sled or system used now but it would be good for them if they don't. Same for Army and AF on the Military Police schools (like they currently have the k9 Corps situated). All sorts of training and communication combined so all knows the same information and S.O.P.s are

Response by Sgt Bradley Smith made Sep 25 at 2017 1:12 AM

2017-09-25T01:12:49-04:00

To many you officer roles were filled by the clueless in need of learning 20 years ago. Warrent Officers should have never left. Then again I hated the demise of the Sgt rank. Guess i'm just old.

Response by Lt Col David Nadeau made Sep 25 at 2017 1:32 AM

2017-09-25T01:32:35-04:00

It's a zero sum game. Warrants, being commissioned officers come onto the books at the expense of other commissioned slots. We would not gain additional commissioned allocations by bringing them back. When you reduce the numbers in other grades it has a profound ripple effect on force management. BL: AF has looked and re-looked at the issue numerous times and has elected to keep Warrants out of our rank structure.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2017 5:40 AM

2017-09-25T05:40:40-04:00

Dear God NO! I am in the Army and can honestly tell you Warrant Officers are the worst. Most, if not all are nothing more than former NCO's that couldn't get picked up for the next rank. Very few are truly "subject matter experts." The main reason the Army still embraces Warrant's is they are cheaper than actual officers. Considering the Army actually has more aircraft than the Air Force the cost difference adds up. The Army further invested in the Warrant Officer Corps because it was decided even more money could be saved by putting Warrants in positions that require an Officer, but not necessarily any tactical or command demands. Trust me on this, the Air Force is a much better place without Warrant Officers and will suffer greatly if they bring them back. There was a reason they were dumped. Sometimes decisions made long ago still make sense. I have 17 years in the Army, as a SFC, I strongly suggest you think otherwise. MOST 2nd LTs. Are more mature and responsible than most Warrants I have worked with. There are a handful that do well, but to few to make a difference. Don't do it.

Response by SCPO Charles Myers made Sep 25 at 2017 11:46 AM

2017-09-25T11:46:08-04:00

Some of the reasons E-8/9 was created was to relieve junior officers of most military duties so they could concentrate on their primary duties. I was the Quality Assurance officer in an electronic warfare squadron as an E-8 so that the O-2 normally assigned there could concentrate on being a better mission commander. E-9's routinely fill billets in the Naval Air Force that an O1/2 limited duty officer would do.

Response by SFC John Giersdorf made Sep 25 at 2017 1:15 PM

2017-09-25T13:15:55-04:00

In theory the Warrant is supposed to be an SME allowed to focus exclusively on a particular mission, as opposed to RLOs being generalists. Its probably a good idea for technical fields.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2017 1:42 PM

2017-09-25T13:42:05-04:00

TACP/JTAC's should be warrant officers. as should cct and pj. all battlefield airmen deserve it.

Response by SGT Michael Hartman made Sep 25 at 2017 8:32 PM

2017-09-25T20:32:48-04:00

Army has warrant officers to do a great job I think they should go ahead and bring the warrant officer is back it's almost this area to have one officers in your service they do things that commissioned officers and ncos are lined up to do and any service that doesn't have warrant officers should be reevaluated to see if they can bring those back

Response by Sgt Mike Dargusch made Sep 25 at 2017 9:58 PM

2017-09-25T21:58:02-04:00

Rather than utilizing them as leadership, utilize them as subject matter experts to advise leadership. It keeps them in their field as experts without the Human Resources aspect.
They would be writing the manuals on EVERYTHING; They would initiate beta testing programs; They would be the auditors and editors.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2017 12:03 AM

2017-09-26T00:03:50-04:00

No you do not want warrants! I've been in both services. Warrants form their silly clique and give commissioned officers a hard time. Trust you do not want that!

Response by SCPO Anthony Wingers made Sep 26 at 2017 7:14 AM

2017-09-26T07:14:44-04:00

Right off the bat, during my time in the Navy, as enlisted Petty officer or Chief, I was doing jobs that the Air Force used officers and warrants for. Give your enlisted personnel those billets. Warrants were created in the Air Force and Army and after Viet Nam, found themselves RIFed or reduced in rank. The Navy used Warrant Officers as well, but they were more of an operational asset, somewhere between commissioned and non comissioned officer. Most of my friends went LDO to be able to participate in the operational leadership opportunities. Warrant officers got a lot of respect from the enlisted community, having been there, and done that. Again, however, I feel that the Air Force should shift responsibility to their senior NCO community first. If you need pilot warrants, that is another thing altogether. The army had them during Viet Nam, but again, that did not end well for those who went that route.

Response by TSgt Tim Gruenes made Sep 26 at 2017 8:04 AM

2017-09-26T08:04:05-04:00

I definitely think there is a place in Aircraft Maintenance for Warrent Officers. Aircraft Maintenance is a craft, and anytime you force 100% of journeyman to become Craftsman you have failed that craft. Keep only the best journeyman, put them on track for craftsman, then offer them Flying Crew Chief positions as Warrent Officers. The journeyman and Craftsman that don't choose Flying Crew Chief roles would stay on a management track. This keeps the best wrench turners on aircraft and teaching Amn, and removes the 100% forced progression from journeyman to Craftsman which will keep the talent at the Craftsman level instead of washing it out the door with career advancement.

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made Sep 26 at 2017 10:49 AM

2017-09-26T10:49:24-04:00

I believe that the air force should definitely bring back warrant officers.

Response by MSgt Sam Lynn made Sep 26 at 2017 3:30 PM

2017-09-26T15:30:55-04:00

Yes. I believe there is a viable need for this grade structure.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2017 5:29 PM

2017-09-26T17:29:32-04:00

Are they looking to save money

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-09-26T19:42:04-04:00

I'm sure they would end up being treated like modern-day army warrants: underflown, underpaid, looked down upon behind closed doors, and with all of the additional duties facing current Air Force RLOs sans command. I applied for Air Force flight school to rid myself of some of the above issues, but I'm aware that only patches of grass are greener. Worth it.

Response by SSG Peter Marshall made Sep 26 at 2017 10:50 PM

2017-09-26T22:50:33-04:00

It makes sense to have Warrants in all branches simply because they tend to be the technical and tactical experts in their chosen career. They fill a void between the enlisted and officer ranks . Army officers might be in a tank 01 - 02 and then finance 03 on up (I actually know someone who took this route) & not everyone wants that. In some cases, Warrants are also in leadership roles in charge of critical/specialized equipment and personnel - both in and out of uniform. Some of them also have civilian acquired skills (CAS), such as medicine. Army Warrant recruiting is very active: http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/WOgeninfo_enlmos_af.shtml. Since I served USAR for 20 years (1 year active) and I've been out for about 10, I'm surprised that USAF stopped producing Warrants.

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Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2017 1:16 AM

2017-09-27T01:16:37-04:00

*bring* them back

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2017 2:00 AM

2017-09-27T02:00:21-04:00

Not for me to argue, being a Marine, but if they did bring back WO and allow them to be fixed-wing pilots, I'd volunteer in a heartbeat. Already looking at going Army after embassy duty for that very reason (except to be a rotary pilot, of course).

Response by Sgt James Rea made Sep 27 at 2017 6:37 PM

2017-09-27T18:37:31-04:00

Bring the rank back. There is a reason for it

Response by SGT Ken Egan made Sep 27 at 2017 6:41 PM

2017-09-27T18:41:15-04:00

I still wonder at times what the hell my WO3 did during the day. He would just disappear like a Gary in the wind.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Sep 27 at 2017 9:58 PM

2017-09-27T21:58:08-04:00

The WO position would be good for A Food Service Officer slot or Services Section leader slot: Billeting , Special Svcs(MWR) Relegating WOs to these slots would open up better posits for new 2d Lts to get into and not be stuck in a field like Svcs Sqdn.

Response by PV2 Luis Campero made Sep 28 at 2017 8:57 AM

2017-09-28T08:57:34-04:00

Officers need to rely on NCO's not more Officers. NCO's are the connection between Officers and enlisted. NCO's need to be where Officers look to when they want to get a job done. In short if your an Officer and you feel overworked you are not relying on your NCO'S

Response by SSgt Chris Shultz made Sep 28 at 2017 1:39 PM

2017-09-28T13:39:52-04:00

I would have loved to see a warrant track. There is a silent retention crisis pending for the 1N3 community because very well trained and experienced NCOs are being lured out to private sector jobs which pay more and still end up being paid by the DOD and the Air Force. Jet jocks (another field that is seeing a retention crisis but is 4x as large of a force) afraid of loosing stick time has killed this before.

Response by Maj Bryan Buckles made Sep 29 at 2017 8:53 PM

2017-09-29T20:53:08-04:00

Bring them back! Experienced NCOs with exceptional drive, competence and leadership abilities would improve efficiency and give qualified enlisted folks another opportunity to excel and further help the Air Force accomplish it's mission.

Response by CPO John Pollard made Sep 29 at 2017 10:41 PM

2017-09-29T22:41:10-04:00

Works well in the other services.

Response by SMSgt Thomas Yeager made Sep 29 at 2017 11:02 PM

2017-09-29T23:02:04-04:00

As a MSgt running AF Network Control Centers in the '90s I saw a lot of outstanding enlisted experts in IT get out and get jobs as contractors because they knew that if they stayed in (and some did want to) they would find themselves doing less and less technical work and more and more paperwork. I suggested to the CMSAF when he was visiting RAF Alconbury that the AF should bring back WOs for those who wanted to stay in but be the technical experts. You'd have thought that I'd jumped up on the table and pissed in his plate. I was told that the enlisted force had worked too hard to get where it was to lose our standing (especially senior NCOs) to WOs, and that if junior enlisted didn't want to move up into leadership ranks then they needed to get out. Personally, I never saw how bringing back Warrants would take away from my authority and standing as a SNCO, but apparently there were a lot of Chiefs who were afraid of it and quick to attack when the subject was raised. I still think it is a good idea.

Response by CMSgt Dale Griffith made Sep 30 at 2017 12:39 AM

2017-09-30T00:39:32-04:00

Use warrant officers to fly RPAs. Enlisted pilots blurs lines between officers and enlisted.

Response by TSgt Michael Dymnioski made Sep 30 at 2017 3:10 PM

2017-09-30T15:10:14-04:00

No the Air Force doesn't need warrant officers that's what 2lt do nust a wasre of man power

Response by SSgt Charles Ogle made Sep 30 at 2017 5:11 PM

2017-09-30T17:11:33-04:00

When I was in during Vietnam (1973-1984) or officers were primarily utilized in the Army to fly helicopters and light aircraft up to and including C12 King Airs. A W-2 I knew had 150 combat sorties and 4000+hours had to go to college to become a O-1 in USAF. He did it for career advancement and eventually retired as a major. Only problem was during the time he was constantly chewed out by majors and Lieutenant Colonels for having senior command pilot Wings on his uniform

Response by 1LT John Fleming made Sep 30 at 2017 10:12 PM

2017-09-30T22:12:27-04:00

I dont know what the Army would do without them, even though they(The Brass) never quite figured out what to do with them, completely

Response by CWO4 James M Blaschak made Oct 1 at 2017 3:32 PM

2017-10-01T15:32:26-04:00

Why not ? It works for USMC, NAVY, ARMY and USCG. We do a great job and we are economical to the overall system. Especially W5.

Response by TSgt Johnnie Keller made Oct 1 at 2017 5:03 PM

2017-10-01T17:03:47-04:00

It could be a place to move super qualified enlisted who can't make it otherwise, due to senior nco positions being limited.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2017 5:40 PM

2017-10-01T17:40:56-04:00

Within the cyber realm especially there are ample places forr warrant officers. Crew leads currently being manned by an inexperienced Lt. could actually be improved by it being done by a warrant officer instead.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2017 9:45 PM

2017-10-02T21:45:43-04:00

My opinion is the Air Force should utilize a very capable enlisted force to fill in the areas that traditionally could have been filled by an officer. We have an enlisted force that is even more educated in certain circumstances now a days then even some of those in our officer corps. I believe we should stop selling ourselves short. If this requires bridging pay gaps and adjusting the amount of decision authority to make this happen without abrogating the current command structure, then so be it. Im not advocating do more with less. I am advocating put more trust and faith in what we have. If anything was brought back, it wouldn't be warrant officer. It would be returning buck sergeant back to the structure and making the rank structure function the way it should.

Response by MSgt Jim Parsons made Oct 12 at 2017 8:15 PM

2017-10-12T20:15:00-04:00

I would've gone for it if they'd had it. But they didn't so I took my bachelor's degree, which the Air Force TOTALLY paid for, and the classes the AF paid for toward my master's degree and put them to use in the civilian world.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Feb 11 at 2018 5:47 PM

2018-02-11T17:47:51-05:00

use Warrant Officers for Special Services, Services officer(food service, mortuary affairs, billeting, library, recreation (mwr) and some other specialties .

Response by MSgt Glenn P. Kuehner made Aug 14 at 2018 8:33 PM

2018-08-14T20:33:08-04:00

Though I have been retired for 22 years, I would have to ask what would be the difference between the WO and the Senior and Chief Master Sergeants? Isn't the work already covered by the senior NCO? I was a Buck Sergeant. I think it was a valuable rank to field train a new NCO and prepare the Sgt to become a SSgt.

Response by A1C Lexas Granger made Oct 1 at 2018 7:17 AM

2018-10-01T07:17:25-04:00

Before I’d left the Air Force there was talk about bringing back Warrant Officers because then Enlisted members would be able to be even command troops, fly, and other various tasks that Officers would either need assistance in or not bother with at all. It’s also cheaper to produce WO than it is to produce O-1 and above.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Nov 21 at 2018 10:56 PM

2018-11-21T22:56:11-05:00

They're cheaper to staff than regular officers... and they fill a technical niche. They aren't groomed for command. For taxpayers it's a win-win.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2019 6:22 PM

2019-08-01T18:22:32-04:00

Won't happen because the Chiefs are worried about losing their authority. Whenever the topic comes up, it's always the O's that value the experts but the top enlisted that say it'll "never happen".

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 2 at 2019 6:58 AM

2019-08-02T06:58:04-04:00

I personally think that nurses, PAs, and pilots should be warrant officers, provided they are not in command tracks. The Navy should also make their LDOs warrant officers. These folks are master technicians just like the warrant officers in logistics.

Response by SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr made Aug 4 at 2019 12:57 PM

2019-08-04T12:57:58-04:00

Being it back the Warrant Officer Rank!

Response by SPC Shawn Durnen made Aug 13 at 2019 11:40 PM

2019-08-13T23:40:10-04:00

Response by SSG Robert Ricci made Feb 21 at 2020 2:49 PM

2020-02-21T14:49:50-05:00

I would love to be there with a bowl of popcorn when a 2LT would try to give an order to a W-4. That would have been more exciting than me pulling over an LTC for a speeding violation caught on radar at 20 over and him copping an attitude that as a private I had no authority to detain him. I got to use a well-practiced line, "Sir please don't confuse your rank with my authority." MP's have the equivalent grade to the base commander. I'd love to see a 2LT tell a W-4 what to do. I know he can but I'd still like to see the fight. Extra butter please. :-)"

Response by MSgt Louis Roylo made Apr 6 at 2020 2:01 PM

2020-04-06T14:01:52-04:00

The three senior Air Force NCO ranks do the jobs that warrants do in the sister services but without the pay and prestige. Other than pay and prestige, there is no compelling reason to reinstate Air Force WOs.

Response by TSgt Daniel Cykewick made Apr 26 at 2020 4:20 PM

2020-04-26T16:20:52-04:00

My take on the system after 20 long years is that the Air Force should maintain its current system. Enlisted personnel can already be commissioned "within" to the officer ranks, but as O-2s with an indicator as former enlisted (ie.. O-2E O-1E etc...). This system works out fine.
Having a senior "enlisted" person holding a commissioned officers duty position is not justifiable for the way of the Air Force Vision.

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made May 11 at 2020 12:18 PM

2020-05-11T12:18:00-04:00

I'll just mention this - I was at a "joint base" before there was joint bases.
The Army base I was stationed at was serviced by the nearby Air Force Base
for medical treatment. (The Army base had the only commissary)

There were two Physician Assistants.
The Army PA was a WO2
The Air Force PA was an E-7
Take it for what it is worth.

Response by Capt Elmer Lupton made Jan 22 at 2021 10:46 AM

2021-01-22T10:46:10-05:00

From 1971-1973, the Safety Officer at our facility was a CWO-4. When he spoke, everybody listened. His predecessor had been a Major and there was no change in operations when the Major was replaced by a CWO-4.

Response by Wayne Soares made Jan 24 at 2021 9:16 PM

2021-01-24T21:16:20-05:00

Thanks for the share Colonel Burns

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 25 at 2021 8:52 AM

2021-01-25T08:52:58-05:00

No, there's no need. If you feel like you're lacking technical expertise, then you need to revamp your NCOES and expect more of your Non Commissioned Officers.

Your NCO's are already supposed to be subject matter experts. If you feel like they aren't fitting the bill, then you need to fix what you have, not make up new positions. I think it's generally a better investment to fix what you have...

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Feb 14 at 2021 11:36 AM

2021-02-14T11:36:00-05:00

Yes, perfect fit...

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 14 at 2021 11:05 PM

2021-02-14T23:05:38-05:00

I guess it depends. Where did they drop them off?, and can they get some sort of public transportation back on their own?

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Mar 6 at 2021 7:43 PM

2021-03-06T19:43:56-05:00

My service in the Air National Guard began at about the same time as the Air Force began to phase out warrant officers. This came around the same time as the addition of the two "supergrade" enlisted grades was made--E-8 and E-9. It also came around the same time as the Air Force began to phase out commissioning sources for those without college degrees: Officer Candidate School and Aviation Cadets. The reasoning was that the Air Force wanted to emphasize education as a prerequisite for officer status. The warrant officer structure--it was felt--was an unneeded third rank system of limited utility. (I went on from my ANG service to active commissioned service and later as an active reservist.) Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever been able to convince the leadership and managers of the Air Force that reinstating warrant officers would enhance the service. Many Air Force pilots serve their obligated time and leave the service to fly for airlines, and the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard have been blessed to keep many of these in military uniforms and service. When the Air Force had warrant officers most were enlisted members who had progressed as far as they could in the enlisted ranks and were qualified to advance to greater responsibilities and authority. Today these can move on to senior master sergeant and chief master sergeant grades, which are highly respected by the service. I have no personal opinion of the merits of bringing back warrant officers. The Air Force has managed very well since they quit issuing these grades and would respond they see no merit to reinstating them. They have also emphasized the availability of commissioning programs for qualified enlisted members. I have a son who is now an E-7. If he wants to be an officer I would love to see him commissioned into the officer ranks, preferably at a grade higher than second lieutenant. But that would be his choice. Becoming a warrant officer would offer little benefit for him in contrast to being commissioned, in my opinion, other than pay.

Response by CW4 Paul Kopriva made Mar 8 at 2021 8:59 PM

2021-03-08T20:59:54-05:00

Look at the Navy's use of Warrant Officers and LDOs (Limited Duty Officers). LDOs, I believe, are equal in rank to regular commissioned officers, but do not hold command positions. They are technical specialists. My understanding of the situation in the Navy might be old now as I've been retired for quite a while now.

Response by CW4 Paul Kopriva made Mar 8 at 2021 9:04 PM

2021-03-08T21:04:58-05:00

Look at the Navy's use of warrant officers and LDOs (Limited Duty Officers). I personally believe they have a better solution than the Army. The LDOs are equal in rank of "regular" commissioned Officers but are technical specialists and do not command. I'm not sure if I'm totally up to date on this as I've been retired for quite a while now.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Mar 15 at 2021 1:43 AM

2021-03-15T01:43:47-04:00

My AF career was in the weather field, several years of which were spent in direct support of the US Army. This support has been the arrangement ever since the AF was made a separate service. A part of the AF weather restructure several years ago was to remove officer commanders from several Army locations and replace them with, primarily, a Senior Master Sergeant. The weather career field was one in which warrant officers served in before the ranks were phased out. The above mentioned restructure in the Army support arena, to me, is a good example of a situation where someone with a WO rank would have been a much better fit for the command role than a SNCO. Warrant officers are widely used in the Army, including in some company (perhaps higher) command roles, so to have a like structure in a tenant AF unit would, could, should maintain more weight in the command position when such weight is needed. I can also see where the WO grades would be a good fit in the security field, medical field, as well as perhaps in the services area.

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Apr 16 at 2021 1:32 AM

2021-04-16T01:32:56-04:00

I believe that the air Force replaced the Warrant Officer with E-8 and E-9 in terms of responsibility and leadership. it is to late to revert now, where would they fit in?

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Apr 24 at 2021 6:03 PM

2021-04-24T18:03:03-04:00

Air force Warrants should be returned and commissioned officers corps reduced to chain of command status. It is ludicrous to have commissioned officers in ever pilots seat when bus drivers can do the same thing and be accountable to a superior officer.