Should the Airmen in the TN Air Guard video have been punished so severely for their re-enlistment video?

2018-04-19T05:52:48-04:00

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/19/3-in-national-guard-disciplined-over-use-dinosaur-hand-puppet-during-oath-ceremony.html

Should they have forced the COL to retire with a demotion? Should the MSGT have lost her AGR job? Given the current state of ridiculousness where men can be women just by announcing that they feel like a woman (without undergoing any form of transformation) then why can not this MSGT identify as a T-Rex?

3 in National Guard disciplined over use of dinosaur hand puppet during oath ceremony

Military officials announced Wednesday disciplinary actions against three Tennessee Air National Guard airmen after filming a re-enlistment ceremony in which an officer recited her oath using a dinosaur puppet.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 6:43 AM

2018-04-19T06:43:18-04:00

Something like this didn’t just happen out of nowhere. At some point that MSgt told them what she was going to do, there were probably several instances where someone should have said that this was a bad idea. I feel they were unconsciously making a mockery of the ceremony. I also don’t feel that this falls into the same category of other instances where SMs find interesting ways to perform their reenlistment. This was too far. It was ridiculous.

Response by SGT David T. made Apr 19 at 2018 7:57 AM

2018-04-19T07:57:50-04:00

Stuff like this is why I got out. Too often now, people take things way too seriously. If that's how she wanted to reenlist, then why is it an issue? It is pretty clear it was intended to be in good fun and not mocking it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 8:19 AM

2018-04-19T08:19:41-04:00

Considering that I've read about people getting a lesser punishment for actually committing a crime, no, they shouldn't have been punished so severely. The TAG shouldn't have come out and stated exactly what the punishments were for who either. All this situation has done is make the military community look stupid. And not because of some woman reenlisting with a puppet on her hand. Because of the over the top outrage from SMs and veterans. All the people crying about it looked like bigger snowflakes than Hillary voters on election night.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 8:40 AM

2018-04-19T08:40:37-04:00

It was unbecoming an officer and an NCO, but the penalties were over the top. That they taped it and posted it online forced leadership to extreme measures. Letters of counseling or reprimand for everyone, then be done with it.

Response by CPO Darrel Ellis made Apr 19 at 2018 9:43 AM

2018-04-19T09:43:34-04:00

Hell no

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 19 at 2018 9:47 AM

2018-04-19T09:47:11-04:00

That is maybe why you are a CPL? Seriously- no joking, She was giving her OATH- that is suppose to mean SOMETHING, it is your WORD or in the old days- YOUR BOND. It is SERIOUS, or it means nothing. In the service you are swearing to give your all, to include your LIFE to uphold the Constitution- is that a damn joking matter? Is her life a damn joking matter? Swearing the same oath that millions of service people served under, and 100K's DIED under a damn joke??? IT WAS WRONG TO THE Nth degree- and a damn COL should have known better, a senior NCO should have known better- if that is how they view their oath, the we are a damn sight better with them gone!!! ( Yes son I'm Pissed- and it's my state to boot.)

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 19 at 2018 10:01 AM

2018-04-19T10:01:56-04:00

People all over social media were offended and as younger folks say, Alpha Foxtrotte. Then I think people were complaining on open source social media and complaining to the AF. The AF took notice and decided this can not be ignored. They did the ultimate, CYA or cover your apple. Did the AF punish them a little bit more than they should have? I think so but I have only said that oath around 5 or 6 times in my career when I enlisted the first time and then when I reenlisted a lot. I wasn't offended at all. There isn't much that hurts my feelings. I don't think it should have been filmed for sure.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 10:43 AM

2018-04-19T10:43:38-04:00

I guess they did not see the humor in this.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 19 at 2018 10:56 AM

2018-04-19T10:56:38-04:00

In my most humble of opinions, I think they earned what they got. A bird Colonel, a 1SG and a Senior Master Sergeant are all mature enough to know that the oath of enlistment , like posting colors is serious business and not something to be mocked.
If they were so lax in their administration of something as serious as the oath of enlistment what else then are they screwing around with and failing to enforce the standards in. That is where the concern for me would have been.
You can create a positive and enjoyable work environment without compromising standards of professionalism. Situations like this are often what lead to Command teams being relieved for the ambiguous reason of "loss of confidence" .

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-04-19T11:01:46-04:00

Let's not forget that 3 generations of the command of an Aircraft Carrier including several Rear Admirals (both halves) were axed and many, many other super-squared-away, tremendous leaders were rendered no longer upwardly mobile because the media got a hold of some goofy videos that were NEVER intended for public consumption (as civilians would not be able to understand the context) and for which the crew loved their CO.

I am speaking, of course, of OP Honors. I never met him in person-- I was on the ship in the interim between the end of his XO tour and his return as the CO, but the crew of that ship LOVED him. When they made the announcement he had been selected to come back as the CO, the cheering on the ship sounded like a rock concert. You don't get to be 'loved' by the crew when you are the XO of an Aircraft Carrier-- you are supposed to be the 'bad guy'. He was loved and he was effective. He got fired when he was the CO (just before the ship deployed, by the way) because of some goofy morale-boosting, public-service-announcement videos he had made 5 YEARS PRIOR as the XO.

(Of course, no one bothered to mention that the videos were stolen from the ship under false pretenses and fed to the media by a dirtbag officer that was looking to sabotage the CO for directing him to Mast for fraternization (of which he was demonstrably guilty)... Oh wait... no one was supposed to know that part. Oops.)

Do I think this dinosaur thing was over the top? I don't know. I don't know what other 'details' might have exacerbated the decision on the punishments. (Had they been in hot water before? Were they directed NOT to do this thereby disobeying a direct order, etc.) I know the smartest thing to do is NOT be involved in dumb s***. Second smartest thing to do is-- if you ARE involved in dumb s***, don't broadcast it all over social media. Basically, If you are going to be stupid, be smart about it.

We had a saying back in the Military Police: Memories are forever, Pictures are evidence.
Just for humor: Had a kid go to Mast for parasailing naked in Turkey on a port visit... Do you know how he got caught? Because he posted a YouTube video titled "USS WITHOLDING ACTUAL SHIP NAME Sailor Parasailing Naked in Turkey"... How dumb can you be?

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Apr 19 at 2018 11:05 AM

2018-04-19T11:05:38-04:00

In my opinion it certainly displayed a lack in judgement from both a a Senior Officer and what I assume to be a Senior NCO. I do think the punishment was a little harsh for their transgressions.

Response by Capt David Bays made Apr 19 at 2018 11:10 AM

2018-04-19T11:10:33-04:00

The COL and senior NCO showed very poor judgment. It wasn't a grey area. And they cannot defend their actions by saying there is no reg. that prohibits hand puppets at such a ceremony. This is not be about whether or not someone was offended by what they did, it is about whether their bosses can trust their judgment going forward.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 19 at 2018 12:55 PM

2018-04-19T12:55:07-04:00

She is or was a fairly senior Airmen. She knows better as does most everyone stated to have been in the room. My children followed me through most of my 30 plus and they laughed at this. My children were brought up to respect military tradition, how else can they begin to understand the reasons for which we serve. Your children know, or should know that every time you walk out of that door that there is a chance you may not return. If I made a mockery of my military service how then could I justify to them the risks I face every day, the fact that I was willing to leave them fatherless in the defense of our country if it came to that.

No service, active or otherwise is different from the other when it comes to the reasons we should be serving. Not for money, not for college, not for any other than, Duty, Honor, Coutry. Thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Apr 19 at 2018 1:57 PM

2018-04-19T13:57:16-04:00

Posted 23 m ago
I definitely think that all of these punishments are warranted. There is no reason to make light of this kind of ceremony. We have seen so many people go above and beyond for reenlistments, I think that I have seen a few airborne guys who jump out of planes to reenlist, a few divers who do them at the bottom of pools, I know that I had a few guys who wanted to do their reenlistments surrounded by the tools of our trade (e.g. tanks, brads, and HMMWVs); these twists on the ceremony show a kind of pride and reverence for the jobs being performed by servicemembers throughout the military and not just the people involved in the ceremony. These promote a level of pride in the service. The actions of these officers and NCOs is nothing if not shameful. The manner in which these individuals single-handedly denigrated the military and subsequently made each and every former, current, and future service member (particularly Airmen) look like morons or children is something that is just disgusting. For those who survived this incident without being forced out, I do hope that they have learned a lesson in professionalism. For the LtCol. who was forced to retire, I hope that you find success elsewhere. I do hope that this is a learning experience for the entire service though. We are all professionals. We should hold ourselves and those around us to a standard so high that it is almost unattainable because we should seek out perfection in everything that we do. Our careers are ones in which lives are at stake and although performing a simple re-up with a puppet may not seem like much, unprofessional conduct in something so small is probably an indicator that there is some form of ill-conduct in areas far more important.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 2:31 PM

2018-04-19T14:31:58-04:00

It saddens me that there is any controversy among military personnel as to whether this was the wrong thing to do. The only question/consideration at all should be the severity of the punishment of all involved.

Response by PO1 Don Gulizia made Apr 19 at 2018 3:04 PM

2018-04-19T15:04:30-04:00

While this never should have happened, I think it's a little overboard. Recently, there was an airman caught on video making inappropriate racial remarks. Her punishment = reduction in rank. T-Rex lady gets kicked out. As for the COL...look at the Fat Leonard scandal and the "punishments" of the 4 rear admirals and the one vice admiral. They failed on several levels and they were only forced to retire...no reduction in rank. While this is certainly disrespectful of the oath ceremony, I don't see it rising to the level of these other cases.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 19 at 2018 3:21 PM

2018-04-19T15:21:13-04:00

They made an error that is strategic in nature.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 3:26 PM

2018-04-19T15:26:57-04:00

She wasn't identifying as a T Rex. I had read that was not even her official ceremony. It was something she did for her kids and they did a real ceremony after.

I don't think anyone should have lost their jobs over it. I wonder why was it posted online? Did she post it or someone else? It wasn't a very great idea BUT anyone who has seen the USAWTF page has seen far more unprofessional looking Army reenlistments posted on that page.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Apr 19 at 2018 5:57 PM

2018-04-19T17:57:36-04:00

About the most stoopid thing I have seen in quite a while. Yes, I believe they both should have gotten the boot, although one wonders how they each managed to rise to such elevated ranks over the years if this illustrates their take on the service and the enlistment oath. It is time to tighten up on such nonsense throughout the services, rather than to ignore and condone it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 21 at 2018 4:40 PM

2018-04-21T16:40:23-04:00

Should not have been punished at all. Its a tradition, the enlisted person gets to dictate the circumstances of their re enlistment so long as its legal and mostly safe.
If the senior leadership is really that bent out of shape about this, the moral thing to do would have been to publish official guidance on how the ceremony will be conducted from that point on and called it a day.
This whole thing is an embarrassment.....but because of the GO's actions, not the former commander and enlisted person.

Response by SSgt Manuel Sawyer made May 4 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-05-04T21:25:00-04:00

That was total disrespectful to all service personnel.