Should the Army create two new pay grades for senior NCOs who take on more responsibility?

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:29:13 -0400

SURVEY OF THE DAY

The way the Army's enlisted ranks are set up now, sergeants major who serve in battalions make the same base pay as those who work for four-star generals.

But the sergeant major of the Army has an idea that could change that.

Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey floated the idea of adding E-10 and E-11 pay grades to a group of E-9s during a senior leadership conference in June at Fort Bliss, Texas, according to his spokesman, Master Sgt. Tyrone Marshall.

Such a move could potentially increase base pay for the Army's top sergeants major.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jul 14 at 2017 9:31 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:31:29 -0400

Didn't know which option to choose as none covered my thoughts, so I went with Maybe.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jul 14 at 2017 9:34 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:34:50 -0400

I don't think it make sense to expand the Senior NCO Corps and differentiate between CSM for Battalions through Brigade, Division, Corps and Army level.
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL In order to develop two additional grades the chevrons and rockers of the CSM would require modification in order to ensure that the grades are unique in appearance as well as pay and allowances.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2017 9:52 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:52:17 -0400

What happens to staff SGM Positions in this plan?

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jul 14 at 2017 9:59 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:59:31 -0400

So, let me ask this and it's partly rhetorical, why the potentially 2 additional grades? E-10 and E-11? To me, that's 100% ridiculous, seeing that E-9s can only serve about 32 years. Obviously, officers have 10 pay grades and can max out at 40 years, waiverable for an additional year or two depending on circumstances. So, the enlisted corps needs an additional pay grade for potentially 8 less years of service, and likely more reading from this article as one who would make E-11 would pin it on before 30 years. Did I Miss something? If I'm out to lunch on this or off base with this message, please let me know. But this doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2017 11:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:15:30 -0400

This was just a floating concept that wasn't even supposed to be released to the public-- it was done so by a NCO in attendance after being told not to.

Before we get (as has often happened) riled up and ranting, let's just remember that this was literally just a "hey what if" and nothing more, and like most other things that come up in brainstorming sessions, will likely never even see serious consideration.

Response by CMSgt Mark Lewis made Jul 15 at 2017 1:22 AM

CMSgt Mark Lewis — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:22:07 -0400

Definitely not! There is not a need to establish separate pay grades. If the Army is really concerned about "how much" one CSM makes compared to another then they can simply modify or create additional duty pay for those in the most senior /critical positions. I guess I would also ask if a 4-star general makes the same pay as the other 4-star generals in the Army? Is the pay dependent on the duty position they hold or their experience (level - time in service)?

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jul 15 at 2017 9:12 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:12:01 -0400

No. Give them a bigger clothing allowance.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Jul 15 at 2017 10:01 AM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:01:33 -0400

Should the Army create two new pay grades for senior NCOs who take on more responsibility? To be perfectly frank, I think any NCO who has to break in a new “shave tail” should get extra pay and special rations of headache medicine, upset stomach medicine and when driven to drink Class 6 supplies. If all else fails the VA should give a fat disability pension!!!

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Jul 15 at 2017 12:48 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:48:31 -0400

I would say that CSM vs. SM or 1SGT vs. Master Sgt (Army) require additional education and skills. Just as exists elsewhere in the military a pro-pay or special pay would be added to base pay. Therefore, a Command NCO would be held to a standard that would reguire the E8 or E9 to perform at a higher standard and display the necessary leadership qualities such as position requires. Perhaps a review board would be establish with annual or semi-annual review, maybe at Brigade level (Batallion level might be to close to the NCO in question.) I have always thought that 1SGT and CSM should have extra pay comiserant with their duties should exist. If this were an actual paygrade the process would become far to cumbersome in moving an NCO up or down within the same paygrade group.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 15 at 2017 1:12 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:12:51 -0400

I'm into the "what problem is there to fix" category. Is there a retention problem? Is there an insufficient pool to choose people from? Extra work? It's different work eating up your time but everyone's time is eaten up.
Bottom line, you can toss money at it without tinkering with grade structure. And taking a look at unintended consequences, the ripples outside the service and internationally can get rather amusing. Oooh, they have something we don't. We should have that. NATO force structure? Maybe that should change. Interesting topic though. I'd hope the SMA was balanced in his remarks knowing that there are many consequences to the notion. This one got me thinking....

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 15 at 2017 11:27 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 23:27:40 -0400

No. Just... No.

Most E-9's are nothing but politicians in uniform anyway. The Command Chiefs I had the displeasure of being around were all focused on strutting around preening their own feathers instead of focusing on the troops beneath them. If it were up to me, the NCO's at the Squadron (Battalion for Army folks) would be the one's getting extra pay. That's where all the real work is getting done.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jul 17 at 2017 12:11 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:11:44 -0400

They already get SDAP based on who they serve with based on the rating of the GO.

Response by CSM Lonnie Bryson made Jul 17 at 2017 12:37 PM

CSM Lonnie Bryson — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:37:39 -0400

Really, is this so self important people can feel self important? If you want to restructure, then bring back Specialist rank up to E9 and call it a day. If it's about pay then change the pay scale for everyone, not just the less than 1% of the less than 1%.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jul 17 at 2017 2:48 PM

1LT William Clardy — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:48:02 -0400

Why? So we can take another step towards making the "All-Volunteer Force" more of an "All-Mercenary Force"?
If a pay-raise would make the difference between a senior NCO soldiering on or leaving, I'd honestly rather see them go. If salary is an overwhelming factor in your decision to be in the Army, then how much will you need to be paid to when it's time to put your life on the line?

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Jul 17 at 2017 3:45 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:45:21 -0400

a Sergeant Major is a Sergeant Major. If you ask me The one who is in the trenches (yea right) should ne getting his HazDuty pay. the one sitting on their butts back at Regimental HQ polishing the Brass, do not deserve the HazDuty Pay, but they will get the same Fruit Salad the Generals do If they fly over the battlefield at 30,000 ft. I am not sour on all Brass just the ones in the pentagon and the ones that are not worth the power to blow them to hell, because they are not worth a rip. AND WE ALL HAVE KNOWN A HANDFULL OF THEM!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jul 17 at 2017 4:14 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:14:08 -0400

Want to impress me? Make a SGM/CSM who doesn't freak out the second a vehicle isn't perfectly on line, doesn't blow a gasket when the grass isn't within 1/999999999th of an inch in height when cut, can actually turn off his 670-1/600-9/'I'm really about to fuck your whole NCO support up' radar off....when he's asleep. If the SMA can do that, promote ahead of peers to E-12! I'll even come and pin his rank on em. After his 6 month long mental eval and twice an hour piss tests to make sure they're not bat shit crazy. What is a 1SG/SGM/CSM without a red pen? Lost like a 2LT in land nav

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 5:27 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:27:54 -0400

I gotta say it, isn't it like CEOs putting in raises for themselves? Yes, the pay gap between officers and enlisted is huge, especially when you see that after 18 years I get paid the same as an officer who makes it 3 years without getting in trouble and gets their second bar. Instead, why not focus on keeping the talent so that we stop losing quality NCOs to either the dark side or the light.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Jul 17 at 2017 6:07 PM

SCPO William Akin — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:07:49 -0400

Its beyond me how the United States did as well as it did in WW2 without all the Super Petty Officer and NCO grades....

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 6:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:14:23 -0400

Sure, add another pay grade, but add to it with a more stringent up-or-out policy to prevent SGMs that have never served in a CSM position from hanging out until they hit 30 years doing nothing but taking up a billet and keeping motivated NCOs from progressing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 6:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:43:03 -0400

HEY PRIVATE! GET OFF MY GRASS!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 7:54 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:54:46 -0400

Absolutely not. Instead of focusing on command slots, we should focus on reintroducing the technical career path, with several grades of Specialist like we had in the Vietnam era. There are people who would prefer to be mechanics doing manual labor than NCO's managaing others.

Just .02 from a cadet

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 8:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 20:11:55 -0400

I think the Army should pay MOS's differently. Not all Soldiers do the same job. If CSM's/SGM's are looked at differently maybe we should take a look at MOS's, Leadership positions, etc. There are harder jobs in the Army and harder positions as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 8:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 20:53:57 -0400

I think a special pay allowance should work just fine, but if that's the case what about the E4 that's working as an E6? What about the E5 that's doing the work of an E7? If we're going to increase the pay of E9's for their scope of responsibility it only seems fair that other SM's get additional pay for their increased responsibility.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 7:04 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:04:26 -0400

This "problem" is already addressed with Special Duty Assignment Pay (SDAP).
This is a solution in search of a problem.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Jul 18 at 2017 1:05 PM

CW3 Susan Burkholder — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:05:43 -0400

Ahh, life is so cyclical. Someone's trying to bring back Specialist 5s and 6s and 7s? The more things change - the more "discoveries" are RE-discovered by the young.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 1:41 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:41:52 -0400

This proposal wasn't as much about the money as it was about recognizing CSMs working at different levels of command. When General Officers (GO) move to these different levels of command, they are promoted to Brigadier General, then Major General (Division), then LTG (Corps), then GEN (Army or higher). CSMs, OTOH, make pay grade E9, and their pay grade will never change after that. They could start as a Staff SGM, be selected as a CSM (Designee), then become a CSM when an appropriate Battalion slot has opened up for her or him. From that point on they can progress, just as the GOs do, through a nominative process, to positions a two-star level (Division), Corps, and Army, finally to SMA. All the time, they are the same pay grade, have the same insignia, and look the same as a CSM at a Battalion. Nothing wrong with that - we've lived with it that way for years.

This proposal is simply about a way to distinguish those senior CSMs from their peers at other levels. Perhaps the Battalion CSM has a larger single star lower in the insignia, while the SGM star is moved up some. The Brigade CSM has a single star with the laurel wreath; Division CSM two stars with laurel wreath; Corps CSM 3 stars in a triangle; etc. I say Brigade, Division, Corps, and Army but it would be working at the one-star, two-star, three-star, and four-star nominative levels.

I'm sure any pay raises would be modest, if they are including any at all. But they certainly aren't the main thrust of the SMA's proposal, I don't believe

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Jul 18 at 2017 9:50 PM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:50:05 -0400

What was the rational when the services added the CWO-5.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Jul 18 at 2017 11:48 PM

Cpl John Barker — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:48:12 -0400

You guys just need to better utilize the ranks you already have. For example: and basically every jarhead agrees with me on this: it makes as much sense as a football bat that the first rank in the army with any real authority is Sergeant. Like, to become a Sergeant in the Canadian army you need 10-14 years experience, I knew a guy in the US army who told me he made Staff Sergeant during his first enlistment. And wtf is up with your specialists? Like, you have the option to become a Corporal and have more authority, but the majority of army guys choose to stay junior enlisted instead of becoming NCO's to avoid this?

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 19 at 2017 5:53 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 17:53:38 -0400

Yes. They should also consider allowing lower ranks to get a pay grade above their rank, for example a SGT acting as Squad Leader.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jul 21 at 2017 9:19 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:19:14 -0400

Can't speak for the other branches, but on submarines, as the senior enlisted in my division (telecommunications), I was responsible for the mission readiness of all equipment, and resources. That is critical for mission success. No way someone that has been in high profile staff positions "promoted" to an advisory position more important than I, and my peers who spent their careers in the actual fleet. They want these prestigious positions, no sympathy from this retired E-9.

Response by SGT Kaelin Locker made Jul 25 at 2017 1:38 PM

SGT Kaelin Locker — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:38:55 -0400

I say definitely YES! And for those saying no i really just think you're being a buddy fucker. think about it. a CSM serving at the battalion level - a few hundred soldiers, a CSM serving at the Division level - thousands of soldiers. why shouldn't these be different pay grades and different ranks? and even further, on the commissioned side it already is. battalion commander - LTC, brigade commander - COL, division - star. the current system is equivalent to a LTC commanding a division.. Officers would scoff at that.

Response by MSgt Neil Greenfield made Jul 26 at 2017 7:55 AM

MSgt Neil Greenfield — Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:55:34 -0400

There used to be a time when the SNCO community could be appointed as a Warrant Officer in the Army, rather than having to go through WOC school. That's the way my Dad became a WO. This was sort of similar to the Navy's LDO program. I would advocate this avenue rather than create 2 or more new pay grades.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2017 1:18 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:18:29 -0400

I found it really interesting that an individual, @SSG Marc W., @AKA SSG (Anonymous), who posts as an Active Duty SSG but says he is somehow also an officer, starts a discussion with his own response to this question, gets some responses from me he apparently doesn't like, then votes down my last comment to him, makes a post calling me names and belittling me, then he's able to turn off any further commenting or voting on the entire discussion thread. Not only that, now he's run and hidden behind the "SSG (Anonymous)" name instead of the real name he was posting under before. Guess he was afraid of the repercussions of calling people names in this forum. Then he goes back and changes all his old posts, that now read as if they're from "SSG (Anonymous)" and says things like "What 'my friend' was trying to say.." or "What 'my friend' really meant..." or "I guess you didn't read what 'my friend' posted..." So now he has an imaginary friend, to boot.

All I can say to SSG (Anonymous) AKA SSG Marc W. (his friend) is that was a real candy-a$$ed move, for either a SSG or whatever kind of officer you are supposed to be. Were you an officer who got RIFed? It's not a shame to say so. I actually knew a few good officers who got caught up in the Army's insane RIFs. None of them were quite as infested with chicken excrement as you seem to be, though. You say you can guess what kind of SGM I was - I bet you can. I was a damned fine SGM who took care of my troops, respected and worked well with the officers in my organizations, and together we made a good team. I KNOW what kind of a toxic officer you were. I could see it in everything you wrote. And it was even more apparent in the way you took your little football and ran away when you got upset at someone debating a point with you that you couldn't win with logic. It's a shame you couldn't be an adult and finish the discussion like an adult (I was going to say like a man, but you might be a woman, or a man who believes his gender identity is as a woman). Maybe you should just give the keyboard back to your Squad Leader momma, get back into your bunk, and go to sleep.

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made Jul 29 at 2017 2:24 AM

SSG Kenneth Lanning — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 02:24:51 -0400

If you serve as a SGM, regular E-9 pay applies. Put on CSM, then you should get additional pay according to slot (BN get additional 2.5%, BDE or 1-star 5%, MG/division 7.5%, LTG or corp 10%, GEN 12.5%, SMA / SEA for JCS 15%...this is all just example)...give the SGM's something to strive for other than just bragging rights and sleepless nights.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2018 2:35 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 14:35:45 -0400

The same thought processes should be applied to the Master Sergeant and First Sergeant ranks. Not to bad mouth my peers but the diamond adds a completely different responsibility dynamic.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2018 6:31 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 18:31:49 -0400

Response by SSG Preston Rainey made Sep 23 at 2018 9:27 PM

SSG Preston Rainey — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:27:31 -0400

No I think it ridiculous

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2019 1:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 01:54:12 -0400

No don't need to add paygrades. Instead add special pay only for as long as they are in the higher level jobs and apply to everyone.

Response by PO2 Charles Kokel made Jul 9 at 2019 2:35 AM

PO2 Charles Kokel — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:35:23 -0400

So what about the other branches? Where you have command duties but regular duties with in your rate. My dad lead a mechanics team for cutters but had a district command master chief collateral duty. Maybe instead of adding new pay-grades and special pay like you would get for hazardous duty or flight pay. Base it off pay-grade. So that navy personnel who are e7 with a command chief collateral duty can get paid for the extra responsibility.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2019 10:58 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 10:58:11 -0400

Command Chief Sergeant Major, and Senior Command Chief Sergeant Major.

Response by SSG Jim Lentz made Jul 9 at 2019 11:00 AM

SSG Jim Lentz — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 11:00:52 -0400

An easy way to get this would be to give pro pay for 1SGs and CSMs. You take the responsibility, you get the pay. They already have a blue print with jump and flight pay.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2019 3:33 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:33:14 -0400

Loose lips sink ship!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2019 8:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:24:26 -0400

No but it should bring back the specialist pay grades.

Response by SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT made Jul 9 at 2019 8:45 PM

SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:45:34 -0400

Should do like the Marines. They have two career paths leadership and technical with special pay for highly specialized skills.

Response by SGT Matt Mierzejewski made Jul 9 at 2019 10:36 PM

SGT Matt Mierzejewski — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 22:36:33 -0400

No. They don't need a pay raise. But, yes they definitely deserve it. From E-9 and up, you make a choice to have a desk job, or to take command. It's all about the power and the glory, that's the extra honor/pay.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2019 11:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 23:53:24 -0400

I like the idea of perhaps restructuring the amount of SDAP that those SGMs get (most of the Sergeants Major serving in those positions get some level of SDAP) based on the position held. For instance, the SMA gets SD-6 ($450/month) but most SGMs that are rated by GOs get SD-5 ($375/month). I think there is room to include more SGMs based on the demands of their position.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 7:20 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 07:20:17 -0400

Battalion sergeant major has a very different job than the sergeant major of the army they should be paid differently

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 8:15 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:15:13 -0400

Base pay is the same, but there are incentives at different echelons. The pay is already high enough.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Jul 10 at 2019 8:30 AM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:30:12 -0400

They would be the equivalent of a field grade officer

Response by CPL Jeremy Glenn made Jul 10 at 2019 10:33 AM

CPL Jeremy Glenn — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:33:22 -0400

Restructuring the points system for E5-E7 makes more sense to me. I wasted my career chasing points by switching career fields. By the time I was eligible for promotion the star MOS I transferred to was maxed out again.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 10:44 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:44:28 -0400

I can see this. I learned many years ago that the power of a CSM is derived from who they work for. Big difference in a CSM who works for an O-5 and one who works for an O-8. If you’re in doubt, just look at the E-9 rating scheme.

Response by SSG Pedro Tapia made Jul 10 at 2019 12:39 PM

SSG Pedro Tapia — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:39:17 -0400

This is the ones that tell us that if you reach certain time of service and don't advance you need to retire or leave the service, but they can stay as long as they want? I meet a a SGMthat came from the Pentagon, that told us that you will be mandatory reduced or retired with 20 years of service if you dont advance in rank, but he was on his 34 year of service. How can be possible? I got a better idea. You all need to retired at 20 years and free those slots for others to advance instead that trying to collect on a 30 year pension or this fantasy of a E 10 or 11 rank.

Response by PFC Bobby Lingle made Jul 10 at 2019 1:24 PM

PFC Bobby Lingle — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:24:19 -0400

Not as a pay grade but as a added class that could be taken away as the class.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 3:22 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:22:56 -0400

What about a MSG working in a BDE SGM billet for over two years? Or a SFC working a 1SG billet over two years? Or a SSG working two grades up through a deployment? See if we really want fairness it should apply to all NCOs!

Response by 1LT Rob James made Jul 10 at 2019 3:51 PM

1LT Rob James — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:51:43 -0400

A battalion commander and a brigade commander and a CG are all different ranks. The fact is a flag level CSM has moved through 3-4 levels of responsibility( promotions) but never gets a pay bump for those promotions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 5:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:33:56 -0400

The pay is the pay. You have some say in your career path plus if you are posted to DC you do make more, plus you have the experience to carry forward into your civilian job.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 6:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 18:42:31 -0400

Pay is not the concern. The real question is do we distinguish between Sergeants Major based on the level of command. Theoretically a CSM at the highest level today could become a battalion CSM tomorrow would you then administratively reduce him in rank?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 9:59 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:59:55 -0400

I say no, each position they hold has its own perks. Also then they should look at E8's as 1SG's work harder than MSG.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2019 12:08 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:08:23 -0400

Being in the military is like you're 6 again playing a game of pick up football with the 12 year olds on a Saturday morning, and they get to make up whatever rules they want.

Response by Sgt Daniel J. Daly made Jul 11 at 2019 12:18 AM

Sgt Daniel J. Daly — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:18:45 -0400

Doesn’t the Army techniley have a seperate rank called Command Sgt. Major?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2019 12:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:47:26 -0400

I like SMA Dailey. But, if the discussion is down to adding paygrades, that means it's time to look at rebalancing the payscales again on the whole.

As well possibly looking at SDAP. CSMs for GOs get SDAP already based on the grade of the GO. But SDAP is not a large amount.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2019 6:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:39:31 -0400

No, but most nominative CSM’s Get special duty pay.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2019 12:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:16:34 -0400

Don’t they get stipends if they are BDE or higher levels?

Response by SGT T M made Jul 29 at 2019 12:31 PM

SGT T M — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:31:29 -0400

A solution in search of a problem. Funny, where ever you go the top position guys want to increase the pay of the top position guys

Response by CSM William Rich made Jul 29 at 2019 1:10 PM

CSM William Rich — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:10:02 -0400

I believe that either this or: re-establishment “pro-pay” for 1 Sgt, and in the e-9 ranks, bump for Bn,another for bed. , another for each position above.

Response by Cpl Cory Clark made Jul 29 at 2019 1:22 PM

Cpl Cory Clark — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:22:52 -0400

Sounds like a great way to incentivize the best of the best into roles where the decisions are made that affect the most people.
While they're at it I'd suggest making pay MOS and rank dependent instead of just rank dependent. All MOSs are not equal.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jun 26 at 2020 4:25 PM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 16:25:08 -0400

or turn some of the non-command Sgts Major into Spec 9s

Response by SGT Alejandro Benavides made Jun 26 at 2020 5:25 PM

SGT Alejandro Benavides — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 17:25:32 -0400

If the army was serious about changing anything about the Enlisted Rank Structure, it should start by bringing back Specialists ranks. Not everyone in the Army wants to be or deserves to be a Leader (NCO). But people should be given the opportunity to get promoted and increase their pay and do their 20 years if they choose to. I’ve known E-5’s and 6’s who would rather leave the army at 12 years than deal with the bullshit they get tasked with on top of their jobs. we live in a completely different world than we did before the end of WW2 and our support staff doesn’t always have to play GI Joe for the rest of Combat arms MOSs to accomplish the mission. Unpopular opinion, but in 20 years from now, the Gen Z will control the military.