Should the Army do away with Patches and go to one universal Symbol like the Marines EGA?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:03:36 -0400

As a Recruiter I have had insight on the Army Branding, and marketing Team for USAREC. We are getting beat by the Marines when it comes to image. The patches make civilians ask what do you do in the Army, on the flip side when a civilian sees a Marine no questions needed to be asked, whats your thoughts

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 7 at 2016 11:11 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:11:10 -0400

The Marines attract those that want to join the toughest service and challenge themselves to the max, in my experience. The Army covers a world of specialties.
It is more than just patches on the uniforms, IMHO.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made May 7 at 2016 11:23 PM

SGT Philip Roncari — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:23:50 -0400

Call me old school,(I guess you can been out since 1968) but my 4th Division patch was something I wore with pride back in the day,and if I spot one now on a service member it causes me to stand a little straighter a little prouder so I say stay with the patch I really don't care if civilians are impressed with Marines they have their traditions we have ours " steadfast and loyal"

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2016 11:28 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:28:41 -0400

It seems like from a recruiting standpoint civilians asking questions about different patches and parts of uniform (i.e. tanker boots, or combat badges) would be a positive aspect. This not only gives a recruiter a great foot in the door, but also shows pride in their service. I believe this also gives a new recruit an early taste of army traditions and culture.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made May 7 at 2016 11:45 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:45:04 -0400

Hmmm.... 1st Team.... You ain't Cav, you ain't shit.... I can save my own life... Simply let's keep the patch with the head horse facing forward on both sides.... OIF II 04-05... Proud of my first combat patch.... HOOOOAAAAH!!!!!

Response by SGT Eric Bishop made May 7 at 2016 11:50 PM

SGT Eric Bishop — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:50:30 -0400

Hell no

Response by SFC Wade W. made May 7 at 2016 11:51 PM

SFC Wade W. — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:51:51 -0400

No, each unit in the Army has its own unique history and tells a story. When I was serving we made a point to learn the history of our unit, from the company level up to the Corp we belonged to. Maybe that is where the connection needs to be made again.

Response by SGT Larry Prentice made May 7 at 2016 11:55 PM

SGT Larry Prentice — Sat, 07 May 2016 23:55:22 -0400

Leave the patches. The history of these patches, and the sacrifices made wearing them, makes it feasible to leave them in place. It is ok with me for civilians to ask "what do you do?" It opens up dialog to something most people do not know much about. For instance- when I am asked this question, my response is always the same "I blow s**t up" then I explain what Field Artillery is and how it works and the response back is always "that's awesome!" We are not the Marines for a reason!!

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made May 8 at 2016 12:11 AM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Sun, 08 May 2016 00:11:33 -0400

The difference in image between the Marine Corps and the Army has nothing to do with patches.

Response by SFC David Pratt made May 8 at 2016 12:29 AM

SFC David Pratt — Sun, 08 May 2016 00:29:55 -0400

No. Since the Civil war it's been a great tridition that builds esprit corps and that is what you should be selling to the recruits. Sell faster promotions which = more money. If you are not happy with the patch you're currently wearing, do something about it. Man up, get some specialty schools and go somewhere that will make you feel better about yourself; but a patch doesn't make the man. Marines also have unit patches, they just don't wear them. Everyone in the army should be feeling pretty good any way after SMA Hall handed berets out to the entire force who failed to earn them: most people still can't wear it correctly. They created the CAB and handed that out to people that didn't earn them also. However, what you will find is that after you retire all of the badges, medals and patches don't mean shit: it's the honorable discharge that matters.
On a side note, don't ever bend your integrity in recruiting for a contract. You can easily compete with the marines for a contract. For example, if a kid wants to play hopscotch across a black and white checkered chessboard slaying dragons and lava monsters, then the marines are the right choice (you're prob too young to remember those commercials). However, if he has a sense of adventure talk to him about exiting an aircraft between 600 and 1200' agl where he will hit max velocity in the four seconds it takes for his chute to open, then he'll be falling at a rate of decent of 18-23 feet per second until he lands. The army has the best trained, most tactically sound troops with better equipment and faster promotions. Just never lie!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 12:34 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 00:34:27 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member There is nothing wrong with patches that reflect the long history of the Army. There is also nothing wrong with the Army having a different image than the Marine Corps.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 12:48 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 00:48:36 -0400

As a Marine, i kind of like the unit patches the Army wears. I wouldnt get rid of them, but maybe sew an Army insignia on the left breast pocket like Marines have on cammies.

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made May 8 at 2016 1:26 AM

SGT Michael Thorin — Sun, 08 May 2016 01:26:53 -0400

I don't want to be "that guy", and perhaps I am being overly touchy on this subject, but here goes anyway.

The United States military as a whole is under assault. Military budget cuts with a sustained and increased optempo along with what appears to be constant assaults on the traditions of our military are decreasing morale on a daily basis. Our soldiers and leaders are punished for making split second decisions in life or death situations by politicians with nothing but time whose only tangible sacrifices for this Country, with the exception of a select few, have been having to occasionally stand for long periods of time to philibuster a bill they do not like.

Our Country's leadership seems to desire to seek alliances with historic enemies while simultaneously distancing us from our trusted allies.

Russia is constantly infringing into our airspace via Alaska, and doing it on a very routine basis, and our leaders have done more to promote racism internally (solely my opinion) and violence across the Middle East by destabilizing Arabic governments under the guise of ousting dictators, thereby encouraging violence.

Our troops are asked to go into combat, which is by nature a dirty, gritty and violent animal, by politicians who try to push highly restrictive ROE's and RUF's which only further endanger our troops.

Our Country has left our own high and dry in foreign lands because of "political concern" about a false narrative drummed up to cover the mistakes which were made by those who were entrusted with their lives.

Our Nations colors are being trampled on because some people feel that they have been wronged or who have been "offended" by our leaders, while we lose soldiers in combat fighting for that very flag, along with countless Veterans who commit suicide due to the experiences from defending the very concept that flag represents.

Strong leaders who have been proven in combat either voluntarily or forcibly leave the military, while being replaced by those who seemingly appear to agree with an administration which would rather have a "political consultant" than a military leader.

Our chances of full out winning a war decreases proportionally in regards to how much the politicians want to control said wars, which also places our troops in more danger than necessary.

We are training soldiers in BCT that, should they become too stressed, they need only inform the right people and things will "slack off" a bit. We're more interested in making sure a soldier is not too stressed in training, which only sets that soldier up for failure in combat.

I understand that your question was asked with the best intentions, but are we so concerned with image that we are looking past the content?

If our Army wants to try to bring our image up to that portrayed by the Marines, the patch is the last place we need to look.

How about we stop passing soldiers on their APFT and weight if they do not meet the standards? How about we start trying to make the majority of our force wear their uniforms like the marines, without buttons, Velcro and stitches ripping at the seems?

How about we let drill sergeants do their jobs without talks of stress cards and hurt feelings?

My last tour in Iraq, our ROE's and RUF's were so restrictive, some non-combat soldiers which we provided security for were actually told not to put a mag in their weapons because they were in 915's and they had us, the security escorts, to fight for them, and they did not want to take the chance of a negligent discharge. in the meantime, Marines were told by their chain that any actions done to preserve their lives would be defended by their chain without question. Maybe we should work on getting our chain to start standing up like theirs?

What makes the Marine's image better than ours in the eyes of the public has nothing to do with patches, yet everything to do with content. There is an esprit de cor in the Marines that is often times only seen in the combat arms MOS's of the Army.

The desire for others to seek out a Marine Recruiter instead of an Army, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard recruiter is based on challenge. The Marines have a battle hardened and tested reputation of being the most difficult challenge of all to endure. That's right, my fellow soldiers, I said it. There were never any talks of stress cards and those who fail standards are actually permitted to fail standards, and forced to improve or make room for the next Marine.

SSG Winkler, I understand you are a recruiter and that is what is within your lane, and public image is a very important tool in recruiting. However, trying to make a less stressful and more inviting Army will only steer more of the type soldiers we need to actually restore our image away from us and towards the Marine Recruiters (just an opinion). I also know that some soldiers have been asked not to wear their combat patches because "new soldiers" felt as if they were being singled out by not having one. I dare say that 85% of US Army soldiers would agree with me, but stripping units of the heraldry and history of their patches to improve our image in the eyes of a civilian is not only demeaning, but will further decrease the morale inside the organization.

So the big question is this; are so interested in something as simple as removing a patch to bring in a few extra soldiers that we are willing to land yet another blow to the morale of those who have already sacrificed? When I joined the U.S. Army in 1990, I didn't join because of patches or branding, I joined because I saw an organization that was tough and hard, much as I thought the Marines were, and also saw an opportunity to gain skills with those tough requirements.

I understand that the U.S. Army does studies on branding, but all of my friends and I knew the different patches in the Army denoted certain units before we even got into high school. We also recognized that the U.S.M.C. had no such patches. Our desire to join the Army was not based upon research other than our own research conducted to find which branch was right for us.

When speaking of branding, recruiting and advertising, I am reminded of a mistake made by the Army some years back when failed marketing and branding led them to the motto "An Army Of One." An Army that had been about camaraderie and teamwork was given that jewel by individuals conducting this type research, and they found that it did not have the effect it sought after. Recruiters, drill sergeants, CO's, XO's, and many other acronyms called and complained, as well as potential soldiers who sought teamwork immediately went to other recruiters because of a simple campaign mistake.

They tried to correct it by inserting the tagline, "Composed of Several", but it was too late, the damage was done. Eventually, after millions of dollars funneled into the research and marketing of the new slogan, it was dropped, and the only thing which remained was the logo associated with it.

It's just an opinion, and may be completely off base, but it's just my feeling.

Stay safe brother,

SCOUTS OUT

Response by Capt Walter Miller made May 8 at 2016 1:42 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Sun, 08 May 2016 01:42:10 -0400

Patches are divisive. It focuses you on a unit, not the whole. A big part of the Marine Corps mystique is:

"My Corps!
Your Corps!
Our Corps!
Marine Corps!"

Walt

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 8 at 2016 1:54 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 08 May 2016 01:54:47 -0400

No, Patches, crests, units etc are part of our history and our lineage. I do think we should tone it down on badges in field uniforms and save them for our dress uniforms, but the patches should stay.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 2:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 02:19:31 -0400

SSG Winkler
B.L.U.F keep the patches that's what makes us the Best Army in the world!! We are not the Marines! As a former recruiter. The issue is not that the Marines are just beating us, but there is also cause and effect on that side of the house. Let's all be honest, we have quotas and theirs nothing wrong with that. I went through "various" changes at my station. Be it legacy, SUR, Pinnicle.....it didn't matter what the new formation was called we just ran it the way we needed to IOT be successful (primarily legacy). Recruiters need to be held liable, they fail to perform after 3 rehabilitative attempts send them back and get someone who wants to be there. Attitude drives everything in recruiting and encompasses both the Art and the Science of it. We need recruiters that make amends with being DA selected and get out there and bust their for 8hrs a day it's not hard. However, this also unachieveble by sitting in an office. Station Commanders need to assign zip codes, school and AOR and kick their recruiters out after IPR NLT 0900hrs. Take the G-Jet and comeback with a minimum of 2 appts, 6 leads and 8 new businesses they had canvassed. A little harsh but that was what expected of me day 1 my first Monday in Delmarva (1st Recruiting Bde) I enjoyed my time out their!

Response by SFC David Pratt made May 8 at 2016 2:27 AM

SFC David Pratt — Sun, 08 May 2016 02:27:24 -0400

What communist heathen would put Up Paratroop unit patches without the airborne tab above it: it's part of the patch!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 3:01 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 03:01:17 -0400

I don't remember who said it but it stands true that "Comparison is the thief of joy". I love the Corps but they are the Corps and we are the Army.

Change ... for what purpose? To beat the USMC in a branding contest? No, absolutely not! The Army is not the Marine Corps and the Marine Corps is not the Army. Just because we eschew the symbolism, lineage, heraldry of our history does not mean we will be more marketable to new recruits nor should it. As for civilians asking what we do in the Army? I just don't understand the issue. Tell them with pride ... I'm 11B, 91B, 92G, 31B, 18F, 79R, 92Y etc ... and why your MOS is important to the mission of the United States Army.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 4:58 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 04:58:06 -0400

The Army is much bigger than the Marines, and our culture and history are totally different. The Army has many branches and units with their own unique histories and subcultures, and we should embrace that history with pride, not toss it aside to be more like another service. Heck I'd like to see full color unit patches on our ACUs when in garrison (we already wear full color flags, why not?).

Unit patches are a source of pride, and a symbol of our history. Let's keep them.

Response by LTC Joseph George made May 8 at 2016 5:42 AM

LTC Joseph George — Sun, 08 May 2016 05:42:25 -0400

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 6:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 06:28:26 -0400

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!! We are so busy trying to "fit in" rub everyone's back, make people feel better, I mean thinking about giving people who have not deployed deployment patches. It is to the point of interest get med board, I am fine with leaving the Army. We are scared of being the Army. WE HAVE BECOME WEAK!!!! I am ashamed. We carry our patches with pride. Sometimes not at the time, but after we leave we are proud. If we want to be the Marines, let the Army JOIN THE MARINES!!!!!!

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made May 8 at 2016 7:14 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Sun, 08 May 2016 07:14:54 -0400

I was a recruiter in Lincoln, Nebraska. Most civilians couldn't tell the difference between Soldiers, Marines, or Bus Drivers.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 8:26 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 08:26:14 -0400

I'm not in the Army but I know these patches are a source of unit pride and esprit de corps. By removing them, it will not only remove decades of history but unit morale as well. Keep 'em on!

Response by CSM William Payne made May 8 at 2016 8:26 AM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 08 May 2016 08:26:48 -0400

No I do not, unit patches are a source of pride and esprit de corps. Here is the background of the modern unit patch.

It's 1917 and the 81st Infantry Division is training at Camp Jackson (now Fort Jackson) South Carolina. As the war progressed with the involvement of the United States, recruits from the northern states were pushed south into Virginina and North Carolina to train in milder climates.

So the recruits from North and South Carolina were sent to Camp Jackson, created for training the 81st. Division commander MG Charles Bailey went to Europe before the deployment of the 81st to survey the landscape of the war. While there he noticed that many of our ally units wore distinctive unit patches. Besides unit pride the primary reason for having the patches was during all the confusion of the battlefield, the fog of war if you will, especially in the trench warfare, patches made it easier for unit members to link back up with their own unit members after making mass movements.

Bailey returned to Camp Jackson and held a contest for a design of a unit patch. The winning design was that of the wildcat, which had become the nickname of the 81st because of the creek of the same name that ran through Camp Jackson. The longest road on Jackson going out to the training sites was also named Wildcat Road for the same reason.

The original patch had a three legged profile, combining the back leg to save on thread and making it easier to manufacture. So the Soldiers of the 81st sewed the patches on their uniforms, continued training and eventually boarded the train to New York to ship to France. When they reached the port of embarkation the patches were noticed, flagged as unauthorized and the Soldiers were ordered to remove them. So the Soldiers removed the patches and put them in their pockets only to resew them back on during the voyage over.

When they stepped off the the ships in France a photo taken of these American Soldiers with patches ended up on the front page of a magazine. This started commotion among the other American units there and in short order reached General John "Blackjack" Pershing's office. Pershing summoned Bailey to his office to explain why his Soldiers were out of uniform and wearing the unauthorized patch. Bailey, who must have gone to law school, wore Pershing down with his arguments; the fog of war, unit pride, esprit de corps and that his unit had trained under to patch and that it would be a morale breaker to have his Soldiers to remove it. Pershing finally gave in with words somewhat of this nature; Bailey, your unit can keep their damn patch but they better damn well earn it!

When other units saw that the 81st were allowed to keep their patch they of course complained, the which Pershing relented and authorized the other units to create and wear their own patch. So before the Big Red One, the 82nd, the First Cav, 101st Screaming Eagles or any of the other more famous patches, there was the Wildcat, for the 81st Infantry Division.

At the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning there is only one World War I Soldier wearing a patch, that of the 81st. That Soldier in heavy combat called to the rear to bring up more ammunition. When none arrived he made his way back to find out why. The ammo bearers feared the intense combat and had refused to bring the ammo up. To which the Soldier drew his sidearm and threatened the ammo bearers with their lives if they did not move the ammo up, which they did. That Soldier later received a battlefield commission.

How do I know this? I retired in 2014 as the Command Sergeant Major of the 81st Regional Support Command, the legacy unit of the 81st Infantry Division, which has returned to it's original home Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Fort Jackson was named after native son President Andrew Jackson by the way, not LTG (CSA) Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson. Old Hickory was born in the Waxhaws on the border between North and South Carolina.

"Wildcat Pride - Wildcats Never Quit"

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made May 8 at 2016 8:55 AM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Sun, 08 May 2016 08:55:59 -0400

So the idea is to change our uniform to make civilians more comfortable? Seriously?

"Every Marine a Rifleman" is as a big a joke. I have met Marines who could not hit the broadside of a barn with their rifle. And whenever I encounter a Marine, I do ask what they did. If it doesn't start with "03" I know they are a POG.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made May 8 at 2016 9:22 AM

SSG Byron Hewett — Sun, 08 May 2016 09:22:57 -0400

its a long history for all services because they all have or have had patches its kind of like a family history and lineage it just say who you are what the family is and where it all began and what happened to get where it is today, its not a competition its about our history and where we came from and where will we go in the armed forces.
As for the recruits its about bringing in the right people and if someone is not a good fit that's ok its a matter of point them in a direction that will help them succeed after light that fire under them because when some one joins they are joining a family and that's where we got to have each others back. if SM's are missing from assemblies, formations, accountabilities, that's where we have step in as NCO's, leaders, and as family to get in there and find out what's going on or we are doing a disservice. The U.S. Armed Forces has rich history of reaching out and helping all around the world but with that we also need to reach out with and help those that need it.
when a civilian asks what you do because they ask about you patch that just open the door for you to reach out and start a dialog and capture their interest.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made May 8 at 2016 10:58 AM

SrA Matthew Knight — Sun, 08 May 2016 10:58:59 -0400

Trust me when I say you'll miss them if you ditch them. The Air Force dropped unit patches when we switched from BDUs to ABUs, a transition that finalized shortly before I joined. Many people in the Air Force now not only want to switch to the OCP/Scorpion/MultiCam camouflage as our primary uniform but also want to re-incorporate the unit patches as they were a long standing tradition that many people now miss. Now granted we do have our "Morale" T-Shirts for Friday wear that have a unit logo on them but it's not visible unless your top is off and it's only one day a week.

Every patch that you have holds a story and history behind it. Be proud and happy that you can wear them. I'd love to but I don't foresee the AF transitioning to OCP while I am still in at this point.

Response by SGT Micheal Adams made May 8 at 2016 11:04 AM

SGT Micheal Adams — Sun, 08 May 2016 11:04:30 -0400

LEAVE IT ALONE, y'all screw with things on a regular basis. Your unit does not automatically identify you job. I was in the 49th,I hold it proudly yes I was Armor, but you could have
been 49th administration, let when mechanics, cooks... To many to mention, LEAVE IT ALONE!! By the way I was also in ID and I was never MOSQ as infantry.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made May 8 at 2016 11:14 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Sun, 08 May 2016 11:14:50 -0400

Army needs to keep their traditions

Response by COL John McClellan made May 8 at 2016 12:20 PM

COL John McClellan — Sun, 08 May 2016 12:20:38 -0400

No, I wouldn't. I've seen this comparison with regards to recruiting and the USMC v. USA before, talking about sharper uniforms, or other things about the Marines that offer them a "tighter shot group" as far as messaging. It's certainly understandable. But the USMC is a relatively small service, while the Army is our largest. We have our own doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. and large contingents in the NG and RC components. We are the "jack of all trades" and so our message has to reflect that. I also think that our history of SSI (patches) is one of the things that connect us from generation to generation of warriors. Our famed patches like the "Big Red One" or the 82d Abn are in movies, they were worn by our grandparents, and in some case, their grandparents... it's something we cherish. I was at an event just yesterday where and address was given by LTG Tucker - currently commanding 1st US Army. He remarked how proud he was to be in the company of some of its former Commanders: Black Jack Pershing, Omar Bradley... So - if I had a vote, I'd keep our unit-level patches!!

Response by SSG Robert Webster made May 8 at 2016 1:45 PM

SSG Robert Webster — Sun, 08 May 2016 13:45:17 -0400

First of all, in the image there are 4 SSIs that are incomplete. Next, take a good look at how the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps markets themselves through current movies and other relevant marketing. Next take a look at Army Advertising from the 70s and compare it to the efforts of the other services today, and then create a new updated version of some of those. One thing be consistent.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 8 at 2016 1:47 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Sun, 08 May 2016 13:47:17 -0400

No. We are individualistic in our units, and that patch denotes this. Not knocking the Marines since they don't wear them on their uniforms, but that is a choice THEY made. I'm kinda on the fence about wearing colored patches in Garrison. It's not a bad idea being the BRO can be worn under specific times in garrison. Maybe what the real focus the Army should be dealing with is the massive drawdown that is breaking the force slowly, the massive loss of experience without a knowledge base to capture what these leaders know so it can be applied later. Plenty of flag officers have this. Never saw this with NCO's, and that is where the biggest lessons learned come from.
Patches, smatches.....we don't need no stinkin patches......BUT I WANT my stinkin patch.

Response by Maj John Bell made May 8 at 2016 2:57 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 08 May 2016 14:57:18 -0400

Please do not change, otherwise who will we have to feel better than. Oh I forgot, the Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. Never mind. Besides its more stuff to be placed and measured to a 1/64th of an inch accuracy.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made May 8 at 2016 4:20 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sun, 08 May 2016 16:20:08 -0400

I have a couple of thoughts on this. As a Recruiting Operations Officer for an ROTC program, I have seen much of the same regarding marketing. What was interesting is they failed with the Army Strong motto as Americans identified strong with Marines. Now, we will not see or hear that anymore on Army marketing. Marines have always been smaller and are able to identify as Marines. In the Army, the identity has always been with the unit. Whether it was a regiment or division, that is what people belong to. So I don't think that getting rid of SSI will change anything but would ruin some of the traditions. Secondly, I have more heartburn with the National Guard doing their own thing. Each state/territory does their own marketing/recruiting and sometimes I think this happens at the expense of the active Army.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 4:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 16:59:16 -0400

Different services different mentality. You are a Marine first, rifleman first. In Army it is more complicated and cand end up being a 101 brigade (pick your choice) first then MOS, etc. then again the Army is also very big compared to the Marines with a different mission. Why change to have same uniform for all services? What happened to traditions? We need to stop erasing our history and be proud of our past and continue the good traditions.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made May 8 at 2016 5:22 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Sun, 08 May 2016 17:22:29 -0400

Archer honors the US Army. Bonus material from Season Two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t25Gb74rgq8

001

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 5:23 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 17:23:07 -0400

Yes

Response by SGT David Emme made May 8 at 2016 5:47 PM

SGT David Emme — Sun, 08 May 2016 17:47:00 -0400

No. The Marines find eprit de Corps in being a Marine where Soldiers find esprit de corps in their unit. Having served in both esteemed services, would not change either one.

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made May 8 at 2016 5:48 PM

SSG Karl Fowler — Sun, 08 May 2016 17:48:56 -0400

leave the patches alone , they are a source of pride for some solders.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 8 at 2016 6:42 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 08 May 2016 18:42:06 -0400

Nope, Those patches are cool. Isn't anything wrong with Unit Pride.

Response by SGT Kyle Johnson made May 8 at 2016 7:37 PM

SGT Kyle Johnson — Sun, 08 May 2016 19:37:24 -0400

Don't change it. My Berlin patch never needed any explaining. I still have my map bag, and service members could see where I served. Made a great conversational piece when traveling.

Response by Cpl John Mathews made May 8 at 2016 8:53 PM

Cpl John Mathews — Sun, 08 May 2016 20:53:01 -0400

Between the emblems on Army covers, the tabs, unit parches, and other items on Army uniforms, it is difficult to figure out what it all means for non-soldiers. Army uniforms seem a bit "cluttered" compared to not only the Marines but also sailors and airmen.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 9:34 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 21:34:52 -0400

When it comes to branding... Army has its own mojo and set of problems beyond unit patches. It seems that we continue to change uniforms, slogans and strategic message every quadrennial report. From "Be all you can be" to "Army Strong" we need consistency and less fluf and more substance. Marines have been consistent on this piece.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 May 2016 22:26:22 -0400

I was a recruiter from 1997-2000 and you have to be careful about using your area as a basis for how everywhere else was. Whenever we had Company or Battalion training a lot of people would talk about how the Marines were big competition but that was never true for our station. For us it was the Air Force because they were seen as more technologically advanced and lived in hotels and the Navy because of SEALs and nuclear reactors.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made May 8 at 2016 10:49 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sun, 08 May 2016 22:49:20 -0400

Good evening,

I do not want to see the Army give up it's traditions. It's an Army. But, don't worry. It is my understanding the Marine Corp is trying to be like the Army.

I was told, women only have to hang from the bar for 60sec on their PFT. Also, I see women are allowed to have long hair. Shouldn't the Marine Corp change it's name?

Mark A. Morris BS, RDMS, RVT

Response by SFC Mike Archer made May 9 at 2016 4:44 AM

SFC Mike Archer — Mon, 09 May 2016 04:44:25 -0400

My thoughts, as a former recruiter for 5 years, is that you keep the patches. If it insights more questions then that should be good in building the report of applicants and there respective family. Patches or the lack there of like Marines, is not what brings the market down and cause the Army to "lose" applicants to the Marines or any other branch for that matter. If we want to be more accurate with respect to why we fail in our markets, then asked the permanent (79R) recruiters why they refuse to go out with their detailed recruiters and show them what made them successful or made them decide to become a permanent recruiter. Instead, the moment they are reclassed to 79R they are put into a leadership position and taken "out of the fight." Which was always and still is, in my opinion, the first fail in recruiting. If a Soldier wants to become a permanent recruiter, then after then reclass and are awarded that MOS, they should then still remain a recruiter for at least another year before being inserted into a leadership role. One, that's keeps this recruiter in the fight and helping the centers out and two, prevents a loss of a recruiter just because they reclassed to 79R. That's just a start on many areas of recruiting that should be fixed before worrying about patches. And before anything is changed from higher, higher should talk directly to those recruiters working hard each day and ask them, what can we do better or change to make Recruting more effiecient and help us make our monthly, quarterly, and yearly missions??

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 7:34 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 07:34:02 -0400

the patches and history of units is something I miss from my Army days. it is something the AF doesn't get. we have unit patches but they stand for nothing and we rarely use them. at least as far as I have seen.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 9:56 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 09:56:44 -0400

You have an issue with overall Army marketing that can't be solved with a patch or rebranding at the small unit level. The Army is too massive to change like that. When it does, it backfires (Shinseki and the beret). The Marine Corps has a distinct advantage in that it is smaller and can hold itself to a higher standard. If you have fewer requirements for recruits, you can be more selective. You can turn people away more often and tell them that the Marine Corps isn't going to slack off. The Army is massive in comparison and is capable of much more than the Marine Corps. The Navy will always appeal to some. The Air Force is a good alternative to service. The Army has a branding problem that can't be solved at the level you are addressing here and it would be horrific if we tried.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made May 9 at 2016 10:17 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Mon, 09 May 2016 10:17:11 -0400

Who is even thinking of this? During my 21 years, I wore many patches and am proud to have served with every unit. When I see another soldier with a patch that I have worn, I can immediately have something in common with him or her. When I see someone with a combat patch from a unit I went to combat with, I can always relate to them in a little more special way.
However, throughout my service, I had to reflag the unit I was in a couple times. I always wondered how much it cost to change a division (for an example 24th ID became the 3ID). From multiple shoulder patches and unit crests for each soldier, to repainting signs out front of every building on post, to changing the letterhead on stationary for every company, battalion, brigade on post to repainting the bumper numbers on every vehicle. Just the man hours alone must have been incredible!
The patches in the Army have a history dating to the first world war. Leave our history alone and if someone want to worry about something like this, maybe they should join the USMC so they can just wear the eagle, globe and anchor!

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made May 9 at 2016 10:38 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 09 May 2016 10:38:25 -0400

I say leave it alone. Just because a Civilian doesn't know, is not a reason to change the system. Or because some whinney ass person doesn't have a CSSI. It is apart of OUR history just Like the EGA!

Response by SSgt Wes Carlile made May 9 at 2016 11:07 AM

SSgt Wes Carlile — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:07:24 -0400

Don't broke what has been working. It make it easier to find others that I serviced with and like experience.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 11:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:28:12 -0400

No, the patches are a part of our culture at this point. I think I remember voting to have the color patch sewn on the ASU jacket when the poll was open. I like the idea of having patches so much, I joined a unit that has two (USACAPOC/352nd CACOM)!

Response by SGT Timothy Rocheleau made May 9 at 2016 11:40 AM

SGT Timothy Rocheleau — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:40:14 -0400

While we need to attract high quality new recruits and need to do what it takes to get them, traditions aren't the things we should be changing to do so. That patch isn't just a patch, it's a skill identifier, a unit identifier, a bragging right and most importantly, those patches and their meaning attract soldiers to put in for schools and sometimes even to change their MOS. Our traditions aren't for those who never served, they are for us, we few, who have served, are serving or will serve. I see a soldier with his uniform on and I can say "that young man is in the 82nd, he's a paratrooper, he's been to combat several times, has been commended for something he has done while in, and has been recognized for achievements by his superior NCOs and Commander. That's a paragraph that the average civilian can not say.

Recognition and esprit de corp, they mean something!

Response by SPC James Griffus made May 9 at 2016 11:40 AM

SPC James Griffus — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:40:27 -0400

Response by CPO Randy Francis made May 9 at 2016 11:41 AM

CPO Randy Francis — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:41:34 -0400

Don't you want them to ask questions? Isn't that how you use your recruiting skills? This sounds like a case of laziness on the part of recruiters to me. Having served in the Army and the Navy I can say this with no reservations - the Marine Corps is the most elite branch (notice I said "branch") in the entire US military. Always have been, always will be.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made May 9 at 2016 11:45 AM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:45:49 -0400

There is no way to compare the Marines to USA. Thank fact is people will always ask because the Army doesn't have the infantry first myth as a standard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 11:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:55:34 -0400

The very idea of unit legacies and histories can be traced back as far as the Roman legions under Augustus who flat out refused to give up their numbers and standards in the face of restructuring due to the deeds they did in combat.

In our modern day, there's no better way for a Soldier to display who he/she served with in combat situations than by being able to wear a patch which signifies that service. For me, it's the 4th ID. The 4th ID also took part in the D-Day Landings and major operations in Vietnam. I'm no longer in the 4th, but I proudly wear that as my combat patch even though I'm authorized 1/2 others.

I don't think having a number of patches on is a bad thing at all. It makes it easier to identify other members of your unit; it stands for a legacy that others built before you and others will inherit after you; and it is a symbol of pride for those who care.

We are not the Marines and the Marines are not us. Let us not devolve into a veritable fashion contest and in so doing make motions toward wiping away collective unit history in an attempt to "look cool."

Some final notes:

1) I like being able to quickly distinguish who has been downrange and who hasn't.
2) As another poster suggested - having civilians ask questions about my uniform is a good thing in my eyes. It keeps me sharp on what all the lettuce means and provides easy talking points which might net further Soldiers for the Army.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made May 9 at 2016 11:58 AM

COL Jeff Williams — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:58:09 -0400

Of course not.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 12:09 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 12:09:48 -0400

No, let them keep their patches. They earned them just as much as I earned my EGA. The patches connect them to their respective units and helps build unit morale when they know the history behind them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 12:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 12:10:39 -0400

Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Army Scouts what would the world be without patches???

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 12:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 12:39:28 -0400

So because it cost a lot of money to recruit a single soldier we should change the patching system that the Army has? That logic is extremely flawed. Changing the patching system is not going to reduce recruiting costs. The way to do that would be to simplify the recruiting process.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made May 9 at 2016 12:41 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Mon, 09 May 2016 12:41:13 -0400

We are different branches. I mean, if we're going to go there, why not just eliminate the different uniforms altogether? Everyone gets to be the same!

I might be a touch biased, but I think we need to let the Army and the Marines do their own thing and not abandon our history to make recruiters' lives a little simpler.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made May 9 at 2016 1:03 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:03:49 -0400

I wouldn't change anything. The Army needs to keep its identity and wearing the unit patch is part of that. Comparing the Army to the Marines is more apples to oranges than apples to apples. Their identity is wrapped up in being a "Marine" regardless of everything else. The Army could not and should not duplicate the Marine mentality.

On another note, if recruiting is an issue, I would argue that different types of folks seek out the different services that meet their needs or personality. Changing a uniform wont effect that.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made May 9 at 2016 1:15 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:15:05 -0400

First off (for civilians), I think the issue is the branch name patch that is displayed on uniforms ("US Marines" or "US Army"). I doubt civilians are concerned with Army patches unless there's an "Airborne", "Ranger" or "Special Forces" tab above it. Second, there are preconceived notions when it comes to US Marines vs US Army and I don't believe a patch has anything to do with it - I think the patch issue differences are being over thought. Regardless, somewhere along the line the Marines developed a reputation for being the "toughest" branch of the service, likely due to presidents sending in Marines first when we have "a problem." This is due to their deployability advantages over the Army as they are colocated on ships with the Navy throughout the world, which gives them a "first responder" status, not that they are any tougher than Army infantry or special ops elements. Bottom line: We can get Marines there faster and cheaper than most Army units so the Marines get the press and the name recognition, not to mention the label "the first ones in", which of course leads to the impression that they must be the toughest. You want to change the Army's image? Start sending them in first. Let the barrage begin.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made May 9 at 2016 1:17 PM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:17:02 -0400

Never ! The Army is rich in history. Each unit, flag or designation is a reflection of the Honor's and history of said unit.. This should never go away.. History is very rich as well with standards when it come to Heraldry. http://military.wikia.com/wiki/United_States_Army_Institute_of_Heraldry http://www.qmfound.com/army_heraldry.htm

United States Army Institute of Heraldry

The United States Army Institute of Heraldry (TIOH) furnishes heraldic services to the U.S. Armed Forces and other U.S. government organizations, including the Executive Office of the President. The activities of the Institute encompass research, design, development, standardization, quality control, and other services relating to official symbolic items—seals, decorations, medals, insignia, badges, flags, and other items awarded to or...

Response by MAJ Andrew Ready made May 9 at 2016 1:25 PM

MAJ Andrew Ready — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:25:03 -0400

just division patches is my vote.

Response by SGT Hector Santana made May 9 at 2016 1:25 PM

SGT Hector Santana — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:25:25 -0400

Who Cares About Civilian. Buy a teddy bear a give it to them and tell them to Goggle it...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 1:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:27:46 -0400

Absolutely not. It's entirely to late for that. Let the Army be the Army and the Marines be the Marines. Patches don't bother me. There's history and honor there.

Response by SFC Bubba Moore made May 9 at 2016 1:50 PM

SFC Bubba Moore — Mon, 09 May 2016 13:50:12 -0400

Stupid idea

Response by MSgt Billy McDonough made May 9 at 2016 2:06 PM

MSgt Billy McDonough — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:06:12 -0400

Patches have nothing to do with it, it's marketing by the Marines...have you seen their commercials? The Marines keep people in the dark about how things work, they tell people, what you do isn't important, you are just a Marine. The Army is up front that it has many jobs. Stop feeling inferior to a bunch of folks who have a better PR firm.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made May 9 at 2016 2:35 PM

MSG Jay Jackson — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:35:45 -0400

I say keep our unit patches. Besides I love the cute little names soldiers give their patch!

Response by SFC J Fullerton made May 9 at 2016 2:48 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:48:27 -0400

You are not getting beat by the Marines because of image, you are getting beat by the Marines because they out recruit you. They are on the phones and knocking on doors after 5pm every day and on weekends while the Army recruiters are at home. If they own your market and your high schools, its because you let them. Think about that the next time you drive past the station at 9pm and the lights are still on in the Marines office.

Response by SFC Alfredo Garcia made May 9 at 2016 3:14 PM

SFC Alfredo Garcia — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:14:03 -0400

No.

If one prefers how another branch does things then they should be compelled to join that branch of admiration. We are all branches from the same tree; however, still different. Respect each branch for their individual identities and histories. Please don't change them. A Marine may not appreciate being called a Soldier by one who knows better and a Soldier would have similar sentiment. The special bond still lay in the fact that neither will leave the other behind. We are all still brothers in arms.

Response by SFC Andrew Miller made May 9 at 2016 3:41 PM

SFC Andrew Miller — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:41:46 -0400

This bag was given to me as a gift from my 2nd to last unit before retiring. I take pride in every patch I wore and they have often times been good conversation starters. Each has its own character and history.

Response by SSG Jackie Bradford made May 9 at 2016 3:45 PM

SSG Jackie Bradford — Mon, 09 May 2016 15:45:06 -0400

The army is so large that it is always separating into Combat fighting teams. In a organization where it is demanded that everyone is to try to excel there has to be some distinction to separate those who truly do unique things that separate them from the pack. The Marines are a smaller organization. The army has expanded its special operations units and that has further diluted the significance of wearing the berets. At some point we need to get people to understand that the army shouldn't be looked at as one large organization. But an organization made up of teams of specialized unites that work together to get the job done. Some of these small units are doing more that others. If getting recruits is the only reason to change I understand, but for two hundred and forty years soldiers have done things to separate themselves from their counterparts. Maybe the army should highlight their organization from the perspective of joining the unique units and highlight them.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 4:08 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 16:08:55 -0400

If you're worried about image, you're losing that battle already. Patches give you a sense of pride and belonging to your unit. The Air Force, for the most part, doesn't do patches. I'm lucky to be a flyer and part of the group that gets to wear patches, to show that pride in what I do and who I work with.

The difference between, "ooh, look at that army guy!" instead of "I wonder what that patch means..maybe I'll go ask" is something that I would consider good. Encourages the public to come talk to us, ask us these questions, and humanize us a bit more.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 4:48 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 16:48:02 -0400

I would like the option to sew everything on, regardless if there are parches or not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 6:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 18:04:44 -0400

I think if you want to be a Marine, go join the Marine Corps, SSG Recruiter....

Response by SSG(P) John Newcomb made May 9 at 2016 6:21 PM

SSG(P) John Newcomb — Mon, 09 May 2016 18:21:07 -0400

Response by SPC John Decker made May 9 at 2016 6:28 PM

SPC John Decker — Mon, 09 May 2016 18:28:13 -0400

One reason people don't ask a Marine that question could be they are afraid. Kidding. First thought: People think the Marines have one primary function. They don't have to ask. People know that Soldiers have different jobs, are assigned to different units and/or places. Maybe, to help the Army image, they should change the regulations concerning when to wear which uniform. I always believed the Marine dress uniform was pretty cool looking.

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made May 9 at 2016 7:40 PM

1SG Jack Crutcher — Mon, 09 May 2016 19:40:41 -0400

Keep the patches. With patches comes proud history and tradition of each unit in the Army. What soldier was not proud of the All American, Old Abe, Cav, 2nd Div. or any of the patches they wear or wore?

Response by 1SG David Lopez made May 9 at 2016 8:57 PM

1SG David Lopez — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:57:21 -0400

Stop asking to copy the Marines, my goodness, what's our Army personnel doing these days.
The Army I knew had pride and treasured our rich traditions and felt espirit de corps for our units.
I love our Army, stop trying to copy the Marines.
They took the Black Beret from Rangers at the turn of this century, so the Army can feel special.
We keep changing the uniform, for what?
If you think you are missing something that the Marines have, sign on with the Marines.
Let's make our Army the Best and have pride in what we do. Stop worrying about what you think looks better. Patches have a vital function in our Army, it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

Response by SPC Eric Cunningham made May 9 at 2016 9:20 PM

SPC Eric Cunningham — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:20:26 -0400

The Marines are a Corps, the Army is a branch. They have their traditions, we have ours.

Response by SPC Brian Lysek made May 9 at 2016 10:43 PM

SPC Brian Lysek — Mon, 09 May 2016 22:43:53 -0400

Keep them. They increase unit pride. Here are two examples. When I was with the 101st, we ran into a group of 82nd. Both groups engaged in a lighthearted "Who's better" battle that included "Your Mother" jokes. I was with the 2nd ACR, we crossed paths with some Big Red One infantry boys, they shot first with, "If you ain't infantry you ain't S!@#!" One of us fired back with, "Go fall out of an airplane freezing your a!@ off then walk 24k to your objective! I'm going to sit in my FLA with the heater on!" Just as how every branch of service makes fun of the other, it's one family verses the other.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 11:16 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 23:16:01 -0400

The other services should adopt the combat patch. It would be a little different in the Navy/Marines as most patches would be Ship patches.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 02:19:02 -0400

This is damn near blasphemy! Getting rid of unit patches are you crazy? Army patches, ribbons tell you a story about the wearer. Who they're with, where they've been not to mention the history attached to that unit. And by the way civilians have no idea what Marines do. They think they do...but they don't really know. i can't the amount of times I talk to RELATIVES of service members and some of them don't even know where they're stationed let alone what they do.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:31 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 02:31:44 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member This is not a badges and patches problem. It's a training issue.

Marines are fuckin' Marines. Each and every one. whatever else you want to say about the marines. (a lot of back and forth banter, we all know it, we've all done it) The marines know how to train their recruits. They take civilians of all kinds just like we do in the army and reprogram their minds to become marines. Even still now as I have to sit and listen to a Army trainee tell me that no one told him that a DS would yell and he can't handle it and has ptsd and needs to go home (literally. actual patient) These new Marines I treat are simply better. Discipline, respect, personal pride. confidence. The marines build that into their recruits.

a little fun observation I made of differences between the two and I think it explains it perfectly.

lets say I've two patients coming into my clinic to be seen. I tell patient A(army) and patient M (Marine) to take off their tops for an IV.

Army guy will usually toss his PC onto a bed or shoved in a pocket etc, drop the top and throw it on the bed. Throw it over the Uprest etc but nearly nine out of ten times with the Marines when I had that scenario play out I'd tell the Marine to go ahead and take it off.

carefully they'd removed their arms out of the rolled sleeves. Their PC would be placed down gently. Meticulously that top would be folded and placed down somewhere and the PC again moved and gently placed on top. Like a ritual.

If we in the army are going to start comparing ourselves to the Marines. Lets actually identify good shit we can take from them.

Badges? Not a soul taking that right patch off my sleeve.

Response by SSG Lucas Velez made May 10 at 2016 2:36 AM

SSG Lucas Velez — Tue, 10 May 2016 02:36:28 -0400

Keep the patches... Some have more meaning than others

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made May 10 at 2016 8:16 AM

SFC Michael Arabian — Tue, 10 May 2016 08:16:19 -0400

No way, before I retired, I deployed with 3 different units, and while deployed assigned to units in which I was given a patch, each of these patch have different memories for me, some good, some bad. If we go to just one patch this might notherwise mean as much to the new generation of Soliders.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 10:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:14:40 -0400

Who cares what the civilians ask?? That unit patch brings pride to the individual and to the community in which it is worn. Don't take away traditions.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:23 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:23:43 -0400

I really get tired of the constant comparison between the Army and the Marines. It is an apples and oranges comparison. If you want to improve the marketing war then market the Army's badass history. We have incredible stories to tell just like the Marines.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 11:35 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:35:32 -0400

I seriously doubt it is the image of the EGA that is pulling people to the Marine Corps. Maybe dig deep down and figure out what entices these people and get your branch to start following suit.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made May 10 at 2016 12:16 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:16:47 -0400

After WW-II the Marines stopped wearing their Division patches. The USAF quickly adopted all kinds of badges & such over the decades & used to be the brunt of many jokes. When I first came in the Army in 1979, most people had zero ribbons on their uniform for a 4 year career. Awards really meant something. Airborne & Ranger were the only tabs. A few badges were all that were authorized. Then in the past 10 years or so, we have seen an explosion of tabs, badges, ribbons, & all kinds of bling. Also the whole fashionista command in the Pentagon with so many inane uniform changes. The Army now makes waiters at TGI Fridays jealous with all of the pins. What's next, a bar code system to put on the uniform to show all of the "I've done this" stuff? Field uniforms need to be worn like they are to be worn in the field, like going to war. Really, do you need to advertise every school or been-there-done-that moment on a field uniform?

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made May 10 at 2016 12:35 PM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Tue, 10 May 2016 12:35:52 -0400

as an Infantry soldier, Army, I can tell you that I was proud of every patch I had, especially those that were earned, the marines care about the things they do, but they can not show the things they achieve, the Army do. If you go to Airborne School you want that recognition, as well as Ranger Special Forces, Air Assault, Commando, Sears, Jungle Survival, EIB, CIB, Drill Sergeant, you might not like it but 95% of others do, the civilians will love to see that on you as well, and if ask, tell them with pride all you have done. I do.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:49:02 -0400

the marines are the marines. period. don't confuse the two. The Army has been doing it a bit longer...not by much, but still. It's tradition for the Army, don't change it. That is all.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 10 at 2016 2:29 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:39 -0400

I don't believe so. I may be a Marine, but in my opinion, I would see the patches as a point of pride. I might not know what all the patches mean, but if I had one or any of them, I would take pride in people asking me what I did to earn them. Just like my Eagle Globe and Anchor represents all the Marines that came before me, I also take pride in my Unit Patches because I have become a part of that Unit's rich history.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 5:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:13:33 -0400

That's because are a team! They fight as one. I've worked with marines in the past, and there is much less back stabbing.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 10 at 2016 5:14 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:14:07 -0400

Nope. The Army is a bigger organization so there inherently will be vastly more units and each with specific stories they'd like to hold close to the chest and/or sleeve. Therein lays the value of our patches.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 5:14 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:14:23 -0400

I don't think so. Many of these patches have long and valorous historical ties. It used to be that Army units were established and commanded by local leaders, much in the same tradition of the British Army, whose units were enlisted by, organized, and commanded by local Barons and Lords, not necessarily Royalty (Hence "British Army" and not "Royal Army", unlike its sister services). Those historical ties are sometimes related to local history just as much as national history. To me, it'd be a large hit to the Army's esprit de corps in the event that unit patches were taken away. I'm positive the Ranger community would have a huge uproar if the scroll was taken away.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 5:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 17:44:42 -0400

Leave the uniform alone. The Marines often hide behind their title. The reason why everyone asks what we do is because command can't leave our image alone long enough for the populace to have brand recognition.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 6:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 18:08:27 -0400

we have those patches to idenify the unit we serve and the unit we fought for, in the the marines 1st , 2nd, 3rd what did you do there, just because you were in the marines does'nt identify what you did, i know i served 5th bn 10th marines, 85-87.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 6:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 18:17:15 -0400

what did you do, who did you serve with there are many different nec's in the marines, just because you served 2nd div dont tell me crap i did 85-87 artilliery, but no one would know unless there was an identifying patch or they had access to my srb, i'm proud of my service last patches i had civilal affairs combat and med com patch

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 9:39 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 21:39:37 -0400

Yes. And let's do something crazy like not telling combat vets to remove their combat patches because new soldiers feel bad.

Response by SPC Rudy Hawkins made May 10 at 2016 10:36 PM

SPC Rudy Hawkins — Tue, 10 May 2016 22:36:57 -0400

The Marine Corps was, is and always will be built on the tradition and history of those who were there before. Every Marine knows that whatever is accomplished as a unit, will be remembered as part of the Marine Corps history as a whole !!! Our history is more known by the battle, with the units being an after-thought to the outcome. It builds pride in the Corps first and foremost....which leads to individual and unit pride. So in the Corps, patches aren't needed !!!

Response by SFC Aubrey Mason made May 11 at 2016 9:32 AM

SFC Aubrey Mason — Wed, 11 May 2016 09:32:41 -0400

I fail to understand why all of these "SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS" are being "promoted" by this "administration" or why anyone in Army "Leadership" would CONSIDER such a thing - much less go to the extent of questioning others their opinion of it!

In truth - this looks EXACTLY like what mr obama has been doing in the private sector - sending out media bytes QUESTIONING civilians if they THOUGHT they should obey A LAW......

Folks - Our Army wasn't created yesterday - there are a few years behind it.....
In those years there has NEVER been such an ASSAULT on discipline, logic and history as now.

The real question is this: Will you support Army regulations, the truth and history of our service - or will you serve a corrupt and lawless political agenda that believes social experiments on the armed forces acceptable?

SFC (USA Retired) Aubrey Mason
San Antonio, Texas

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made May 11 at 2016 9:59 AM

Sgt Charles Welling — Wed, 11 May 2016 09:59:55 -0400

Being beaten by image? If you describe the facts of legendary effectiveness and esprit de corps as image, then that is why the USMC has few issues recruiting even in time of war. The Marine Corps is viewed as "THE" military service to belong to for reasons little to do with branding. Semper Fidelis.

Response by COL Mike Walton made May 11 at 2016 1:51 PM

COL Mike Walton — Wed, 11 May 2016 13:51:07 -0400

You're serious, right? While both services have individuals and units which perform specific missions, it is the Army with our "teams of teams" which need the additional ID to distinguish which "team of teams" one belongs to or supports. When civilians ask "what do you do" in the Army, use that opportunity to share the things you do in your branch, within your unit, within the command you belong to. You don't have to go into detail -- what they are REALLY asking is "do you fight like the Marines or are you on the sidelines cleaning up after them?" My answer for 30 years is "well, the Marines have their place and their methods and their tactics. I know lots of Marines and respect the Corps. But I belong to America's Army -- and in particular, I belong to the (insert unit I belong to). We train. We fight. We win...and we have to time to go back to Momma or our hometowns and have a drink or two after its all done. "

That should be YOUR ANSWER too. No amount of marketing or advertising beats the words of a Soldier.

Response by SFC James Printy made May 11 at 2016 9:57 PM

SFC James Printy — Wed, 11 May 2016 21:57:26 -0400

Are you crazy?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 1:28 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:28:55 -0400

Having served in both the Marine Corps and Army, I can make some comparisons. But the question here is about patches. During WWII, the Marine Corps had patches for all its divisions, 1-6 and many others. Why? Because they were no longer a Corps but an Army. That's what happens what you get too big. They dumped the patches after the war. They want the EGA to represent all Marines, which is a misnomer. The EGA represents 0311/grunts, cooks and baker's, and Marine Air (swing with the wing!). So, patches isn't the issue, it's image. But as a former Marine Commandant once said, "Marines win battles, the Army wins wars."

Response by SFC Richard Giles made May 12 at 2016 11:23 PM

SFC Richard Giles — Thu, 12 May 2016 23:23:34 -0400

As 1 who has served in both branches from 1981- 2015. I can see good in both. The 1st and most important is pride. Pride in your unit, those Marines and Soldiers you served and fought with. When you see a patch that you wore you stand a little taller. As someone said below, If a civilian wants to know more they should join and find out what all those traditions are about.
To this day when I see a 3rd or 4th ID patch or someone from the 5th Marines I know I have found another brother or sister. I wouldn't change a thing. Pride and tradition are powerful things I hope they don't mess it up by trying to make the military more civilian.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 6:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 May 2016 18:28:59 -0400

No, but they should reduce the number of authorized patches. National Guard BCTs should align with Active Duty divisions and wear their patch. All other NG units should wear one NG patch. Same with Reserve, wear one patch unless aligned with a AD division. TASS units should have one patch for all the units.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 4:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 16:00:59 -0400

Yes, end the madness. I have served in both branches and still think that this "branding" thing is out of control. There are certain things I like about the patches, but there's more that I do not.

Response by MAJ L. Nicholas Smith made May 20 at 2016 9:40 AM

MAJ L. Nicholas Smith — Fri, 20 May 2016 09:40:31 -0400

Army patches date back to our Civil War and are a symbol and means of maintaining lineage. I've met members of "my" division from WWI through Vietnam and we all identified each other by that patch and quickly rallied together. I've also watched people turn and point when I had my 82d combat patch on my greens around Normandy. It has benefits for us and has been used as a psychological tool against our enemies. I would not recommend getting rid of it.

One of the reasons I think Marines are perceived as well as they are is that they have maintained their traditions and uniforms far better than the Army. Examine the dress uniforms. The Army really comes up short even after multiple changes to the current ASU or "bus driver" uniform which I still can't defend logically. We could have had our old kakis back but..sigh...not meant to be. No, the Army blew millions during a war on uniform studies while the Marines stuck with a classic and saved a ton of money.

Another factor could be the size and mentality of the Army. If you're in (forgive the outdated term here) a light or airborne infantry unit, you're going to be physically fit. The Army is big and it takes a lot to support the rifleman. Many have good standards but there are some in other organizations who have a more lax attitude towards personal appearance, discipline, and physical fitness. People watch us and they can identify a fit soldier from stay puff. Meanwhile in the Marines, "everyone is a rifleman." I think they enforce their standards better and more uniformly. The Army is large, has greater depth in capabilities and as a result there can be noticeable differences from one post/unit/MOS to another.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made May 20 at 2016 10:14 AM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Fri, 20 May 2016 10:14:44 -0400

I'll never give up my Cav sandwich.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 4:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 16:53:59 -0400

I feel like we get beat by marine recruiting because their slogan is good and hasnt changed 10 times in the last 20 years. And they have a better add campaign than the army does. Hell everytime i see a Marine Corps comercial I want to join the Marines.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 5:48 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 17:48:05 -0400

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 8:32 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 20:32:28 -0400

No. The Army makes a living on motivation through patches, badges and tabs. And everyone that thinks this is ridiculous usually still takes note of the unit patch on a Soldiers right shoulder, the badges stacked up to their ear, and of course the tab mountain on the left shoulder. It my "put our ERB/ORB on our uniform", but it gives us an identity as a member of a unit and as an individual. Soldiers will push significantly harder and further when they know that others will visually see their hardships and fruits of their effort on a daily basis for the rest of their careers.

So while we tend to say "be like the Marines" and "enough with the ribbons, badges, and tabs", the majority of the Army buys into it in one form or another and this results in more motivation and a sense of belonging. So I say... Why the hell not. Keep the unit patches. Your men want that deployment patch.

Response by PFC Dalton Rupert made May 25 at 2016 10:03 AM

PFC Dalton Rupert — Wed, 25 May 2016 10:03:48 -0400

I agree with SSGT Charles, the patches for the different Army units always tells a different story whether it is good or bad, those stories are what makes some people actually want to join and experience even though most civilians would not understand the meaning or the reason as long as we know and can share those just means it will add to the rich history of the military itself.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made May 25 at 2016 1:05 PM

CPT Kurk Harris — Wed, 25 May 2016 13:05:40 -0400

As a recruiter back in 2000, we had the same issue. Marines will always win out in the image war with the Army. That is their primary product, an image of some romanticized ideal. I have a great respect for Marines, and certainly like them around when the bullets start flying, but that is all image. The Army is no better or worse than the Marine Corps, just different. I think we need to embrace that difference. The difference you are outlining is really based in the two services identities. Marines identify with being Marines and their history is discussed in terms of what the Marine Corps has done in war. Soldiers, on the other hand, identify with their unit, and the history of the Army is discussed in terms of units. The 82nd is remembered for its combat jumps. The 101st among other things is remembered for the Battle of the Bulge, The Cav for its actions in Korea and and being the Airmobile Division in Vietnam. Even the 86th CSH will be remembered for its identity in OIF as Baghdad ER. Each unit carries its own distinct history, and those patches remind those who have served of the contributions made by those who came before. Wearing that patch on the right sleeve forever ties the soldier wearing it to the combat history of that unit. Let's not water down our history for the sake of competing with the Corps. Let's honor our predecessors, and those who gave the last full measure under those colors by wearing our individual unit combat patches with pride and honor.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 23 at 2016 8:25 AM

CPT Tom Monahan — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:25:17 -0400

Yes and no. The Army has an identity issue and has for decades. Branches, units, specialties, etc. place soldiers in subgroups. There is an OPSEC issue with the patches. On the other side, the Army is so big and has a much larger mission than the other service. Subgrouping is almost a need. Personally I like the idea of unit identification. It build cohesion down at the lower levels. Maybe the answer is to keep the patches except name, rank and service of the field uniforms but on the dress ones.

Response by MSG David Gagnon made Aug 23 at 2016 8:36 AM

MSG David Gagnon — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:36:57 -0400

The Army is a hugh organization unlike the Marine Corps, I think we lack pride in who we are, this needs to change not patches. I have three combat patches and would not change them out for just one universal patch. Each patch has a history and thousands of stories behind them. Let's keep our identity intact and histories alive.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:44:10 -0400

How about we act like the army and not the f&*King marines.... But I'm sure if we just went to one we could all wear it, and no pussy ass pvt. would bitch about feeling left out....... F&*K that.... keep the tradition

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Aug 23 at 2016 10:51 AM

SFC John Fourquet — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:51:59 -0400

Unit patches are part of the army's history and traditions. keep them and get sewn on the shoulder

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 10:54 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:54:32 -0400

As a long time wearer of the oldest patch in the Army (the 81st wildcat), unit patches help to establish a sense of ownershjp, elan and pride in an often otherwise mundane existence. As a long time officer recruiter, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that unit patches have nothing to do with our recruiting woes. The marines have right at 200,000 members, the Army has more than a million - it's hard to have a sense of identity in a million man organization.

How many "catch phrases" have we had since 2000? "an Army of one", "Army Strong" two right? What happened to "Army of One"? Some genius realized that is was counter to the idea of teamwork that we work so hard to instill. Now "Army Strong" is on the way out the door because our media specialist tell us that the word "strong" is more associated with the Marine Corps. One day someone may realize that the official motto of the Army is good enough and sort of says it all "This We'll Defend". Building a ad campaign around "This We'll Defend" would be ridiculously easy but we've got to have something new and sexy (that media specialists can charge us an arm and a leg for). Ever compared our clothing bag to the Marines - theirs hasn't changed a whole hell of a lot, we're on the third uniform since the demise of the completely functional BDUs - Jarheads are still wearing the same cammies just in two colors. We've gone through three iterations of "Class A's since I enlisted 30+ years ago - Jarheads are still wearing the same uniforms. They had a major melt down recently over headgear with their blues - we've adopted a stupid freaking beret that a french gigolo wouldn't wear while still insisting that bus driver hats were still necessary but never wearing them... I could go on and on but it isn't patches that cause you problems - in fact you correctly opined that they are conversation starters. The source of your problem is our idiotic desire to "keep up with the cool kids" instead of just being what we are.

Response by SFC Maitland McKenzie made Aug 23 at 2016 11:13 AM

SFC Maitland McKenzie — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:13:14 -0400

The Marine Corps actually has some Division Patches that have very significant history and they are very proud of those patches. In fact I have known a couple of Soldiers who served in those units as Soldiers and earned the right to wear those Division Patches as FWT SSIs (Combat Patch) By the way, a bit of history, the US Army 2ID patch was worn by Marines in WWI and the USA 2ID was commanded by a USMC MG during WWI.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Aug 23 at 2016 11:46 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:46:55 -0400

I think that is a command decision in the pentagon and it would not make a bunch of difference in 20 years down in the ranks. It will all depend on how the leadership at local levels portray it. The patch does not make the man nor the man make the patch.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Aug 23 at 2016 12:46 PM

SFC Charles Temm — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:46:11 -0400

The Corp is far smaller and to be honest as always had a better PR support group in the media.

The patches started to promote esprit de corp in the CivWar and worked quite well according to those who served. Just like now, units busted on each other b/c of what units did in certain fights.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 23 at 2016 12:53 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:53:57 -0400

No. it signifies units, Bn.s Divisions, all part of a proud heritage.

Response by CPT Alec L. made Aug 23 at 2016 1:59 PM

CPT Alec L. — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:59:51 -0400

No, the army should not do away with unit patches. The unit traditions and history mean something. Those battle streamers on the unit colors were earned with sacrifice. There is a pride for the unit and a love of those comrades that causes men to do things and take action that they otherwise wouldn't. Few men fight for the flag and apple pie, most put their fear aside and take risky action for their buddies and the unit. 40+ years after leaving I have a BIG RED ONE emblem on my truck window. That's unit pride, I believe.

Response by MAJ Tex Hall made Aug 23 at 2016 2:29 PM

MAJ Tex Hall — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:29:00 -0400

No. Unit Identity is a big part of the esprit de corps that soldiers identify with. How many times have you seen a unit patch - combat or current unit - and talked to somebody because YOU were in that unit at some point.

Response by CW4 Chad Balwanz made Aug 23 at 2016 3:54 PM

CW4 Chad Balwanz — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:54:01 -0400

It is about unit pride. I understand the remark about the Marines, if that rocks your boat then join the Marines. We have specialized Divisions, Infantry, Artillery, Airborne, Air Assualt, Mountain Division, Aviation and Special Operations and others. Together we are the US Army full of heritage and pride, yesterday, today and tomorrow and are identified by our unit patch. Would you advocate doing away with awards and decorations as well since most civilians don't recognize or understand those changes as well.

Response by SPC Dave Elzinga made Aug 23 at 2016 4:03 PM

SPC Dave Elzinga — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:03:32 -0400

Why not keep it simple, STOP SCREWING with the Army!!!!!! How about, getting better equipment or updating

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Aug 23 at 2016 4:15 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:15:15 -0400

When someone looks at my patch, civilian or service member, they don't ask what I do. They know.

Response by SFC Arthur Tucker made Aug 23 at 2016 6:58 PM

SFC Arthur Tucker — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:58:37 -0400

No. When I see the men I can tell what unit they are in. Most take pride in their unit.

Response by SGT Christopher Clarke made Aug 23 at 2016 7:50 PM

SGT Christopher Clarke — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:50:48 -0400

I think the patches are an integral part of the Army and would not think getting rid of the patch is beneficial at all!! Hooah.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Aug 23 at 2016 9:25 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 21:25:02 -0400

Leave stuff alone! There are reasons for unit patches beyond "branding". Unit identification on a mixed unit battlefield is one of those reasons.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Aug 24 at 2016 12:03 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 00:03:51 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, I like the Army traditions and I like the Marine traditions. I say the Army should maintain unit patches (both sleeves).

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 24 at 2016 12:13 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 00:13:28 -0400

I don't believe that the "image" of a Marine or an Army soldier are enhanced or limited by a patch. They're based on accomplishments

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Aug 24 at 2016 12:34 AM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 00:34:07 -0400

As a retired soldier of both the officer corps and the nco corps I say no to doing away with shoulder sleeve insignias. For a soldier assigned to any unit the SSI designates that they belong to a certain team. And, for the soldier who served in a combat environment the combat SSI shows that they were a member of a combat brotherhood. Remember, that the Army is built on history as much as training.

Response by LTC Erik Spike Thiesmeyer, Sr. made Aug 24 at 2016 1:26 AM

LTC Erik Spike Thiesmeyer, Sr. — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 01:26:38 -0400

First off, USMC Aviators are still wearing flight suits instead of those ridiculous A2CUs Army Aviators have to wear. So no, I don't the Army should get rid of unit insignia. In fact, we should bring back branch insignia! What we need to get rid off is all the damn VELCRO!! That's what makes soldiers look raggedy standing next to a Marine with his sleeves rolled up and his muscles flexing!

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Aug 24 at 2016 2:14 AM

SPC Franklin McKown — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 02:14:46 -0400

1st Cav patch is the biggest one,I was happy to have one as a combat patch,soldiers need unit identity so they don't feel like cogs and loose their need to represent an identifiable faction.

Response by SPC Tom Walsh made Aug 24 at 2016 3:35 AM

SPC Tom Walsh — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 03:35:33 -0400

No. The Army needs to keep the patches. What gets me is: Why did the Army delete the patch from the new dress uniform?
The combat patch was reduced to a small (1.5 inch) pin below the right breast pocket of the dress uniform jacket, but the current brigade/division/corps/army patch.... Gone.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Aug 24 at 2016 9:19 AM

PO2 Mark Saffell — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:19:14 -0400

Navy is so much different. Also you are missing my favorite. 7th Army which was my dad's otherwise known as 7 steps to hell. Patton's group.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 1:37 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:37:36 -0400

"What you do in the Army" and "What does this patch represent" are two different things, so I would not be concerned with a civilian asking about the patch nor in most cases would I be concerned if they really are asking what someone does in the Army, as those who work in sensitive positions would know not to divulge that information. Responding to such a question regarding unit affiliation would not divulge anything that could not be found on the internet. As for our "being beat by the Marines when it comes to image", I don't think the fact that the Army wears unit patches has anything to do with that.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 24 at 2016 3:12 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 15:12:08 -0400

Someone needs to go to the pentagon, go into the subterranean hideout of the "GOOD IDEA FAIRY" and crush its skull with a lead pipe, dismember the body and then burn it to ashes. From that day forward anyone looking to re-invent the GOOD IDEA FAIRY needs a similar treatment.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2016 2:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 14:11:34 -0400

In my opinion..that's the dumbest craps I've ever heard. Not as dumb as giving basic training Soldiers patches for graduating Red Phase. But back to the question, we are NOT the Marines. Maybe they ask, because there are so many overweight Soldiers. I am proud of my 1CAV patch. It is a daily reminder of the sweat and pain of earning Silver Spurs. It is a constant reminder of the dangers around the corner as I earned my gold spurs. It is a reminder of brotherhood, when you PCS to another less reputable post. Not to mention, it brings up dialog with each other and the veterans, who used to wear that particular patch. So, in my opinion, leave my patch alone.

Response by CPL Guy Grafton made Sep 28 at 2016 5:50 PM

CPL Guy Grafton — Wed, 28 Sep 2016 17:50:05 -0400

I say no to the "Universal Patch". I received a Army crate from a Soldier's spouse after his passing, and discovered his patches on his uniform identical to mine before I retired (he was in Vietnam, I was in OIF-2). To have such a history from my former unit and what his was brings out a great history.

Response by Cpl Brian Johnston made Nov 24 at 2016 8:33 PM

Cpl Brian Johnston — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 20:33:03 -0500

Went through JOTC Ft Sherman in 1974. We didn't even GET issued the Jungle Expert patch, much less get to wear it!

Response by SFC Michael W. made Dec 22 at 2016 5:02 PM

SFC Michael W. — Thu, 22 Dec 2016 17:02:22 -0500

No. Next question...

Response by SFC Dante Alanis made Dec 29 at 2016 10:39 AM

SFC Dante Alanis — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 10:39:30 -0500

I personally like the fact that each unit has it's own proud history, and each begs the question of curious civilians as to what a particular patch represents. Also, it identifies where you may have been stationed and when, as well as particular deployments.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Dec 30 at 2016 8:03 PM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:03:03 -0500

Just give the civilian the information they need, be proud of the unit you represent and what the unit patch means, from one unit to another as I went on my 20 years of service, I could look back and say which one I like more, or I worked harder for. For those guys that went to combat, it represents the value of that unit in a combat environment, the marines do thing in a different way, I had nothing agains them, but at the end of the day I think the Army those more.

Response by CPL Mark Andersen made Aug 1 at 2017 11:31 AM

CPL Mark Andersen — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:31:11 -0400

You will take my Screaming Eagle off my shoulder when I am and cold and dead, and then I will still fight you for it. I think they should also be worn on Dress Blues.

Response by CPT Joshua Hill made Aug 1 at 2017 11:40 AM

CPT Joshua Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:40:45 -0400

USAREC Marketing Team? The same one's that brought us Be All You Can Be, Army of One, and Army Strong? That USAREC Marketing team? The same ones that were decades late to the NASCAR game? If a civilian asks you a question about your uniform, it is an opportunity to have a conversation with someone who has demonstrated an interest in the Army by asking the question in the first place... It is an opening to tell the Army's story, and tell your story. It's been a long time, and I'm sure some things have changed, but I know my recruiters were much more successful at turning a face to face contact in to a prospect (or COI) then they were burning up the phone for hours on end... And even more so when when the contact was initiated by the other person. I am not sure what else you might want as a recruiter. Sure Marines look sharp in their uniform, and they have a great story to tell. But so do you. And you have more to sell than just being a Marine (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Response by Cory Tester made Aug 1 at 2017 11:53 AM

Cory Tester — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:53:16 -0400

Just simply say defend my country from the trash of the world that's trying to take what's mine

Response by SGT Ron Egan made Aug 1 at 2017 11:56 AM

SGT Ron Egan — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:56:03 -0400

Two patches I wore with pride, 9th Infantry Division and Berlin Brigade. It seems to me that you recruiters have become used car salesmen. Stick to what you do best and let the real Men and Women serve their units with pride.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 11:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 11:56:27 -0400

I think you are an idiot to suggest doing away with patches. Just my opinion, maybe I'm alone on this one....

Response by SSG James Swarr made Aug 1 at 2017 12:51 PM

SSG James Swarr — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:51:56 -0400

Keep the patches and the individual identity they have. For most people their unit patch is worn with pride, especially when you wear one on the right side. Also I personally don't know what a Marine does by the patch that you SOMETIMES see them wear. If you think the EGA is the sole identifier I have to say you are very sheltered. If you cant tell a Marine from a Soldier just by the uniform he is wearing something is wrong. I think you should pay closer attention to actually "recruiting" and get some quality people in the ranks. We aren't holding a fashion show amongst branches. There is a bigger mission to accomplish.

Response by Cpl Charles Vadnais made Aug 1 at 2017 2:17 PM

Cpl Charles Vadnais — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:17:25 -0400

I think most of us joined different branches for specific reasons. If I had to pitch to the "Army Marketing Team" i'd say they could make quit the set of commercials out of highlighting the unit patches and the moments in history they're tied to. One that leaps to mind is the image of two soldiers from the "Screaming Eagles" unit painting their faces and giving each other mohawks before D-Day. I'm sure there are plenty of historic patches I don't even know about...

Response by MAJ Michael Roe made Aug 1 at 2017 2:18 PM

MAJ Michael Roe — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:18:17 -0400

Our political correctness is killing our image, not our patches. And it has been going on since the early 90s.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 2:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:30:09 -0400

Why would you take away something that is a good conversation starter? Seems counterintuitive to recruiters looking for leads.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Aug 1 at 2017 2:52 PM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 14:52:55 -0400

I served in the 1st, 2nd, 7th, 8th, Berlin Brigade and 101st Infantry. I also served in the Reserves in the 78th Inf and was in the 513th, 524th and 902nd MI. They all have stories. If I find a hat with their patch I buy it and switch now and again. I am proud that I belonged to each and every one of those distinguished units

Response by COL William Oseles made Aug 1 at 2017 3:01 PM

COL William Oseles — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:01:27 -0400

Sonce a recruiter is wearing a Recruiting Command patch on their left sleeve if people don't know what you are doing perhaps you should find another line if work.
And as I recall the Marines also have Unit Patches u less they have recently done away with them.

Response by SGT Brian Littrel made Aug 1 at 2017 3:21 PM

SGT Brian Littrel — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:21:47 -0400

I like man other have changed units over the years and I wear my unit and combat patch with pride. I've kept multiple patches of each unit in the even my kids join or when I have grandkids. Especially if they join that unit too. The unit patch and history inspires people to carry on the professionalism and courage of those who came before us. Take that away and you take away a source of strength and pride. The Marines have their symbol and they are proud of that, they have always had that symbol. To change just because others have is weak and gutless. Especially for "branding" reasons. Unit patches are not "brands" we are not Nike or BMW.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 3:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 15:26:10 -0400

Rule #1, civilians are ALWAYS going to ask dumbass questions about the military, such as "Do you know Pvt. Such and such? I think he's in the Army too, or maybe the Navy? Oh I don't know!"

Response by SFC Shane Funkhouser made Aug 1 at 2017 4:07 PM

SFC Shane Funkhouser — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:07:17 -0400

Having served in both branches I would say keep them. Personally I don't like them but I think it is a source of esprit Dr corps for units.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 4:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:38:58 -0400

These ar my thoughts....When a civilian sees a soldier he sees someone that has a job in a large organization, someone that has a trained skill and is a trained fighter and soldier. When a civilian sees a marine he sees someone that hasn't the ability to be anything other than a bullet catcher with a weapon. Marines have a rep as tough but they do not have a rep as being smart. The reason the civilian asks what you do in the Army and not in the USMC is because he sees the Army as having a brain and the USMC as not. Before anyone gets all butt-hurt like marines do I spent 4 years on active duty in the Marines with 1/3, so yeah I can talk about both sides from experience.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 1 at 2017 4:55 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:55:16 -0400

Once again, the Marine Corps leads the way.

Response by LTC Marc King made Aug 1 at 2017 5:01 PM

LTC Marc King — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 17:01:57 -0400

SSG if you have an image problem perhaps it is not the unit patches... its actually the image...

Response by MSgt George Cater made Aug 1 at 2017 5:47 PM

MSgt George Cater — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 17:47:22 -0400

The Army does have a "universal" symbol. It's the US worn on the opposite lapel from the branch insignia and the cap emblem worn on the service (dress blues now) cap & DS campaign hats. Put a small one on the (damned) beret instead of rank or unit crest and there you have it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 9:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 21:05:25 -0400

Stop wearing your ACUs to the station and come dressed for success. If you want to compare the ARMY to the Marines your going about all wrong. It's not about patches it's about how they come to work! I don't know how they do it now a days but it was shortly after I became a recruiter that they started letting army wear ACUs instead of your dress greens/blues whatever. There was a huge decline in success when that happened. If your too comfortable you give off a lazy stigma to those walking through the door.
With my station commanders permission I asked if I could come in some days business casual as long as I had an army logo shirt or pin. Days we had PT I came in my ACUs and then changed into my greens.
I would even go into other recruiting branches in civilian clothes and pose as a potential looking for information. I found out what the other branches thought about the army recruiting station. People respond to professionalism. It's not about patches, it's about your appearance!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 10:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 22:00:07 -0400

I understand your point as I was a recruiter in a very rich area known as Fairfield County, CT and has the city of Greenwich. The Army is the largest so we will be mid road on everything. The Marines will get there's because all they want is a challenge (or to piss off their Army Father). Air Force is more business like, and Navy travels. The branding of the patch isn't the issue. Think on this. When folks are killed in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else what does the news say (Unless they are a Seal). They announce x number of Soldiers killed or injured at x location. That's bad PR, and the Marines are good with it. We have also softened up our approach to training and discipline, look at TRADOC 350-6 or AR 600-20 for corrective training. The patch on your right if you have one should be you narrative about what has built you and the experience. See Soldiers joining aren't joining for only college, or Travel or a Job they are buying you, they want to be you (you would hope). I have a friend in Marketing and he will tell you, the Army does struggle, but number and statistics are only as good as you put in and can be twisted to whatever message you are trying to say. Keep the patches, if I were king for a day I would take the Army patch off recruiters and have you wear the last assignment you were at.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 1 at 2017 10:18 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 22:18:06 -0400

They are two different things. You have a U.S.ARMY over your pocket. Patches were supposed to allow a commander to tell where his troops are. Subdued patches seem to defeat their own purpose.

Response by SSG Eddie Helmling made Aug 1 at 2017 10:20 PM

SSG Eddie Helmling — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 22:20:22 -0400

To get rid of the distinct unit patch would be a move away from unit pride. I still hold the crossed bayonets and powder keg of the Tenth with pride, tho not on my shoulder any more.

Response by SPC Michael Frugoli made Aug 2 at 2017 12:26 AM

SPC Michael Frugoli — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 00:26:48 -0400

The patches to me show where we have been. It's great to see all of them. Not Sure I ever felt it nessesary to make things easier for people to understand.

Response by SGT David Emme made Aug 2 at 2017 12:34 AM

SGT David Emme — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 00:34:33 -0400

Having been in the Marines and the Army, there are stark differences. Marines get their Esprit De Corps from being a Marine-earning that title, Marine. It is not like that in the Army. In the Army, you get your Esprit De Corps from your Branch/Mos and your unit. I have a lot of pride earning that title Marine. Also have as much pride earning my spurs, serving in Charger Troop as a part of 2/14 CAV-Rattlesnakes! I would never trade one for the other but that is where the differences lay! You will have to just have to come up with a better way with more imagination to compete.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Aug 2 at 2017 12:51 AM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 00:51:22 -0400

I would have to disagree with you on the topic of asking questions. When a civilian would ask me about any of my unit patches that i wore during my time in the US Army, i took this as an opportunity to explain what the patch signified. Each unit patch means something, every part of the patch has a reason for it. The 82nd ABN DIV patch for example: the AA for All American, is a reference to the fact that the division was comprised of soldiers from the 48 contiguous states at the time of organization.
This is just one of many examples as to why we have patches in the US Army.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2017 10:34 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:34:05 -0400

We are not marines. Patches have been a long tradition in the army close to if not more than a century. We should go back to sewn on patches. Buy never get rid of them. Just saying we should be more like the Marines is retarded.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2017 10:36 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:36:35 -0400

What happened to enlisting for the army? It's not like Ur trying to sell a product. We aren't branding the army as a fad, or hip organization, or some club to get free benefits. Those are extras to joining the military to defend our country. U only get the benefits by getting in & doing Ur job

Response by CW3 Joe Brenton made Aug 2 at 2017 11:34 AM

CW3 Joe Brenton — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 11:34:26 -0400

Why would we want to be like Jar heads?

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Aug 2 at 2017 2:03 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:03:48 -0400

To me the issue is the same now as it was 40 years ago while I was in. (Army) I always felt like a Marine uniform was a nice thing to see but the uniform contained no story. Ribbons tell some but only if one knows what the ribbons are. In the Army all out uniforms told a story, especially our class A, whatever it happened to be at the time. I like the old green A uniform much more than the current Army blues.

Response by SSG Richard Stevens made Aug 2 at 2017 2:29 PM

SSG Richard Stevens — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:29:46 -0400

I think the Army keep there unit patches too

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2017 4:02 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 16:02:38 -0400

HELL to the F nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SGT James Murphy made Aug 2 at 2017 5:46 PM

SGT James Murphy — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:46:45 -0400

Are Ya' Nuts? What would my Grandsons Collect????

Response by 1SG Stephen Burgess made Aug 3 at 2017 12:31 PM

1SG Stephen Burgess — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:31:26 -0400

If the Marines are going to be the comparison why don't we start with the dress uniform? The USMC has had the same dress uniform for as long as anyone can remember and it is awesome. It instills pride in anyone who ever wore it or even sees it. The Army, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be able to stop changing theirs and always for the worse. The class B version of the current ASU is the most horrible looking thing imaginable. That white shirt is laughable at best. Why can't the Army develop a tradition and then stick with it? You know...like the Marines do. Stop trying to take our patches (incredibly stupid idea) and think about maintaining some historical semblance. You know...like those Marines do.

Response by SFC Fred Nora Garcia made Aug 3 at 2017 1:59 PM

SFC Fred Nora Garcia — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:59:35 -0400

I was a Center Commander and set 7 years in Recruiting, and yes our commercials suxed, but at the end of the day we still had the better package for anyone joining the service hands down.

Response by MSG Loren Tomblin made Aug 4 at 2017 9:04 AM

MSG Loren Tomblin — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 09:04:24 -0400

I wore about 8 different patches back in the day. The one on my right shoulder was my favorite.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 10:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:24:37 -0400

nah , its interesting to see what people did while in service.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 4 at 2017 2:37 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:37:25 -0400

Don't ever do away with ARMY history of patches for years and years. Patches are our PRIDE
If we all came together to understand true meaning of what a patch meant and the symbol behind the meaning of the unit history and why each soldier wear the patch then we all would understand why patches on the uniform are important. Most soldiers today have no clue what their unit patch means and I even go so far to say NCO and Officers as well.

Try me!

Response by SPC Ron Walker made Aug 4 at 2017 2:51 PM

SPC Ron Walker — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:51:05 -0400

Tat's why there are Marines and there are soldiers. Not all Marines are combat oriented nor are all soldiers, airmen, sailors or coasties. I like the individual patches. It shows pride and unit cohesion. When people saw my All American patch with the Airborne strip above it they knew what I did! Just my opinion

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Aug 4 at 2017 3:37 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 15:37:59 -0400

What patches do the Marines OR the Army wear that shows their specialty? The Army wears Division patches, 82nd Airborne, 101 Airborne, Other than they are stupid enough to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, you still dont know if they are a Rifleman or a cook. The Marines is simple, EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN! Then they have secondary dutys Mud Marines, Cooks, Airedales. The Navy and the Coast Guard are the only services that identify their ratings on their Rank patches. Bosuns, Gunnersmates, QuarterMasters, Aviation Ordnancemen, and SEALS is now a rating not just a specialty's. Aside from knowing that someone in the 82nd Airborne is stupid enough to jump out of a perfectly good Airplane, you don't know a whole lot more.
As far as I am concerned The Air Farce needs to be folded back under the Army and become the US Army Air Corps again. that way the 82nd. and the 101st. would own the planes they jump out of. That is what I used to tell my Air Force Bird Colonel Uncle. He was just a glorified Taxi Driver for the Army.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Aug 5 at 2017 12:32 PM

1SG John B. Enlow — Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:32:57 -0400

Never! No disrespect intended to our Marine brothers and sisters, but this is our Army's history. Every patch tells its own unique history - 3rd ID, 1st AD, 101st, Big Red 1, etc. Learn about these and other divisions and wear their patch with pride. I know things change with time, but why the questions about changing patches, rendering hand salutes, etc.?

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Aug 6 at 2017 2:26 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 14:26:33 -0400

Once upon a time in the heritage of the British army - one joined the REGIMENT, not the Army. So loyalty to the unit was the big thing - even to the point of wildly different uniforms. The Marines have always been a CORPS - a smaller unit, to start with.

Did the regimental loyalty concept EVER exist in the USA? Does it now? Does anybody stay in the Old Guard for their whole career? I don't know - I'm a Navy guy.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Aug 6 at 2017 3:53 PM

MSG Don Burt — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 15:53:48 -0400

Here we go again...I thought this was settled already...stop worrying about people making comparisons between the Services...you do the job you were trained to do as a Recruiter and do it well and forget about the nay sayers and you won’t have to worry about what someone says or questions about the differences between the Services. Just because one branch has something supposedly appealing more than another doesn’t make a hill of beans. If someone comes in and starts making comparisons, then you need to in a polite manner direct him/her towards the other branch OR, start selling the Army !

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Sep 17 at 2017 11:20 PM

CW2 Stephen Pate — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:20:51 -0400

Some may disagree with me, but as I said in a previous thread, I think that all items except name, rank, and US Army should be removed from the OCP and only worn on the dress uniform. It's a utility uniform and having all of this extra stuff on there doesn't make sense to me. I can already hear some saying "well you'd say different if you were airborne/air assault/ ranger/SF/etc, but I don't think I would. I really hate, as a maintainer, when I get on the ground to look at a truck or something, and I lay my flag in the dirt. If you want to know my qualifications, talk to me like a normal person.
Imagine how impressed you'd be when everyone is in blues with all their bling for an event or something like that! Plenty of conversations to be had there.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jul 11 at 2018 12:41 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 00:41:37 -0400

Maybe it should - but it won't.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2018 11:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 23:11:11 -0400

Unit heraldry, I think, is an important part to the narrative of the army and is a point of pride for a soldier. It serves as a reminder of your history.

Response by CPL Jeremy Glenn made Aug 29 at 2018 12:33 PM

CPL Jeremy Glenn — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:33:51 -0400

The history inherent in patch can have the power to build pride and unit cohesion. It’s a unifying symbol IMO

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2018 10:34 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:34:38 -0400

No offense to the USMC, but they had 6 divisions in WW2, and 3 now, 2 active and 1 reserve. That’s why they don’t wear them, because they only have 3. The Army has a much bigger and richer history, there were 16 Armored Divisions and around 80 Infantry Divisions in WW2.

PS... the Air Force, having gotten rid of patches, is bringing them back !

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Aug 30 at 2018 10:52 AM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:52:52 -0400

Leave tradition alone. The unit/combat patch are distinctively Army. The Army has a long and historic tradition and they should keep it

I personally was Navy and enjoyed the seaworthy traditions of Navy as it was distinctive in it's own accord.

The Marines have their own traditions that are unique to the Corps. They have their own thing and are pros of their service.

The Army needs to be proud of their own traditions too. It is easy for me to identify a Soldier by his/her own uniform which includes the patches.

I have a little understanding of those patches as I did a two year your in the National Guard prior to joining the Navy...(long side story for another time) this was back in 1990-92. I went to Basic training and only the recruits had no patches. It looked like a stripped down uniform. Then after AIT, when I returned to my unit and sewn them on my uniform, I finally feel like I belonged.

This little patches help foster a since of unity and acceptance. Keep them!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 11:20 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:20:53 -0400

No. Unit patches are a part of the Soldier. Instead of a new gimmick, sell what a Soldier is. Identify as a Soldier. Be that Soldier and not a recruiter.

Response by PO2 Tony Diller made Aug 30 at 2018 11:39 AM

PO2 Tony Diller — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:39:30 -0400

The Navy has the ship rocker on the uniform.

Response by PO2 Tony Diller made Aug 30 at 2018 11:40 AM

PO2 Tony Diller — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:40:33 -0400

The Navy has the ships name rocker so how is that any different than these patches?

Response by SFC David Bentley made Aug 30 at 2018 11:40 AM

SFC David Bentley — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 11:40:58 -0400

For one USAREC needs to focus on how to keep recruiters out of jail and out of their privates. The USMC used to wear patches then stoped that’s their business. Pride in your division used to be a thing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 12:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:23:09 -0400

This is an issue as to wear traditions and heritage overrule civilian perception. Civilians can ask the SM or use Google if they want to know what my 34th ID or 10th Mountain patches are.

Response by MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP made Aug 30 at 2018 12:33 PM

MAJ Keith FitzPatrick, CPIM, CSCP — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:33:19 -0400

I’ll keep my patch, thank you. Hopefully patches aren’t preventing recruiters f

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 12:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:57:46 -0400

Glad to see to talking about this... it's something I get asked about nonstop... I was active duty USMC 1980-87... still in the ILNG now with 2 kids in the ILNG... The Armies unnecessarily over complicated culture is part of the problem... not misunderstand me here I love the Army and am blessed every day for one more day in uniform... but the Army has patches for USMC units that don't exist in the USMC... are you getting my point here? And there is no bigger status symbol in the Army than to wear a USMC combat patch... but the USMC has no patches... btw I've served combat tours in the infantry in both branches... so it's a fascinating point you are making... I don't think it's possible to compete with USMC... stop trying to... the Army needs to stop trying to compete with the USMC and figure out how to be the best United States Army possible.... I'm looking forward to reading more comments... thanks

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Aug 30 at 2018 1:55 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:55:42 -0400

No. There's a lot of tradition and unit pride associated with unit insignia.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 2:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:34:58 -0400

The Marine Corps is just slightly bigger than the Air Force... battlefield commanders need to see who is what, what they do in a moments. Infantry, Artillery, Engineers need to be see where they are going when you have that many maneuvering units with gear. Patches are an easy way for us to tell the difference.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 2:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:46:46 -0400

No way

Response by CPT Tim Ennis made Aug 30 at 2018 2:52 PM

CPT Tim Ennis — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 14:52:22 -0400

Keep patches for individual units esprit decor.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 3:01 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:01:41 -0400

I think that is a poor reason to get rid of patches, just to avoid a question that they will ask regardless of a patch. I do however think we should put Battalion or company affiliated patches on our right shoulder to promot Esprit De Corp. I understand that some or most people will disagree because they like their deployment patch, but I feel that it will help the newer and younger Soldiers feel more a part of the team. What do you guys think? Give me a thumbs up if you agree.

Response by SFC Charles Bigelow made Aug 30 at 2018 3:05 PM

SFC Charles Bigelow — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:05:38 -0400

F you go Army

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 30 at 2018 3:31 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:31:38 -0400

Response by SP5 John Harvey made Aug 30 at 2018 3:42 PM

SP5 John Harvey — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:42:04 -0400

We aren’t the marines, keep the patches!

Response by SSgt Robert Wells made Aug 30 at 2018 3:46 PM

SSgt Robert Wells — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:46:06 -0400

As a USAF vet (‘64-‘68), I believed that the Air Force should have kept its Army heritage and worn shoulder patches of major commands to distinguish the uniform from that of Greyhound.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Aug 30 at 2018 3:48 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 15:48:13 -0400

The Marine Corpse is much smaller than the Army. Patches started in the Civil War. Their purpose was to identify which unit a person was in and grew to be a morale builder. Troops were proud of the accomplishments of their unit. So eleminating them would have the opposite effect.
I served in the Air Force No unit atches on our dress uniforms but we have ways to show membership in elete units. CCT scarlet beret, PJs in Maroon, TACP in dark Blue, bloused Jump Boots etc.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 30 at 2018 4:09 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:09:08 -0400

There's a lot of tradition embodied in the Army unit patches. USAF doesn't wear much in the way of unit designations except for Service HQ and Unified Command badges. The key is Army people knowing enough about their unit to explain what the patch means in terms civilians can understand. If you're part of the 82nd Airborne, you need to know why the patch as two "A's" in it. Every Soldier should have an "elevator speech" about his or her unit ready all the time.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 4:23 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:23:17 -0400

As someone with a connection on both sides, I did my active duty with the Marines and then transitioned to the Army Guard, my opinion is this. The Marines for a very brief time did have patches, this was during WW2 hence why each Marine Division has a unit patch. However the Marines specific reasoning to go back to no patches was the idea that, unlike the Army, a single Marine should have identity and fidelity to the Corps. Hence the EGA being the image and symbol of the Marines, and we'll it works we are Marines throughout and have loyalty to our common bond. For the Army unit patches make sense especially given the diverse history of the Army as a whole, we have units that represent major shifts in military doctrine and that legacy SHOULD be identifiable in the men and women that serve in these units. From divisions like 1st CAV, 82nd Airborne, 10th Mountian, even reserve and guard divisons such as the 34TH ID each was form during a shift in doctrine and holds it place in American history. Patches as another comment or mentioned offers a recruiter the chance to talk about the thing that are unique to the Army as a total force.

Response by Rodolfo Roth made Aug 30 at 2018 4:40 PM

Rodolfo Roth — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:40:55 -0400

The Army uniform has become overburden with too much stuff. The combat patch especially has caused a rift between the Haves and Have Not's. The military from day one teaches to work as a team, be as one and think as one. I would agree that the combat patch should stay on the dress uniforms.

Response by Cpl Kelly Daniels made Aug 30 at 2018 4:43 PM

Cpl Kelly Daniels — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:43:25 -0400

I dont think this has anything to do with the Marines, (Former Marine here) but I would bet this has more to do with the Army hating to recognize achievement. When they gave berets away to all units instead of ones that earned a special badge of recognition , that was the first step. Why have a badass lightning bolt on your sleeve or some cool jump wings on your uniform when other troops (or officers) feelings get hurt. Everyone gets a participation trophy and there can be no achievers or else someone gets offended.

Response by MAJ J Ryan Smith made Aug 30 at 2018 4:43 PM

MAJ J Ryan Smith — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:43:36 -0400

The patches are part of Army history and traditions as well as unit identification. Let the Marines have traditions we have ours ! This We'll Defend !

Response by SFC Shawn Wenninger made Aug 30 at 2018 4:44 PM

SFC Shawn Wenninger — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:44:55 -0400

Recruiters should be using those questions to start a conversation and tell the history of these units to influence these civilians to join instead of trying to get rid of time honored traditions. If they don't know the basic history of a unit, learn it. If they are too lazy to engage civilians in a discussion about different patches and jobs then clearly they shouldn't have the position they hold.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Aug 30 at 2018 4:46 PM

SGT Gary Stemen — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:46:22 -0400

Unit recognition and pride is a mark of distinction.... and the Marines also recognize that sachet.... 1st Marines, Guadalcanal.... and the list goes on.....

Response by SPC Christopher Olson made Aug 30 at 2018 4:56 PM

SPC Christopher Olson — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:56:41 -0400

The Marines make movies... the Army makes history!!

Response by CPT Willard Long made Aug 30 at 2018 5:06 PM

CPT Willard Long — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:06:42 -0400

Keep the patches!!

Response by SPC Micheal Tinsley made Aug 30 at 2018 5:51 PM

SPC Micheal Tinsley — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:51:17 -0400

I have a Double A tattoo, only those who know, need to know. I feel Patches and Guidons represent History and should always remain.

Response by Lt Col Kevin Wyman made Aug 30 at 2018 5:56 PM

Lt Col Kevin Wyman — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:56:08 -0400

Keep the patches! Displays a rich history of heraldry! In mybenlisted days I was a proud member of the Rainbow Division

Response by 1SG Glenn Marlin made Aug 30 at 2018 6:15 PM

1SG Glenn Marlin — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:15:05 -0400

Patches have nothing to do with image. Standards do. We need to get back to holding ourselves to high standards. If you’re a recruiter and think the uniform is holding you back or theirs looks better, then take a deep look within. It’s the Soldier/Marine that makes it great. The uniform doesn’t function or even look good without someone in it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 6:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:33:19 -0400

They don’t need patches. They’re a corps. We are an ARMY, and require different patches to differentiate between units.

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Aug 30 at 2018 6:45 PM

SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:45:55 -0400

The heraldry is part of the interest and pride. I look for 7th Infantry Division patches (rare now,) my division in Korea. I like the new left shoulder CBRN patch. Don’t lose them.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 6:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:54:00 -0400

It is what sets us apart . Its our identity..leave it alone!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 8:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:04:06 -0400

You should go join the Marines....

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 8:20 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:20:31 -0400

You know it's not about the patches but knowing the history. If you can talk a out your u it patch and have people understand what it means other then just a unit patch that would go farther the just getting rid of them. I'm currently a recruiter.

Response by COL Charley Higbee made Aug 30 at 2018 8:35 PM

COL Charley Higbee — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:35:31 -0400

No. Patches have long been associated with units and esprit de corps. Soldiers have nearly always been proud of the patch they wear and especially proud when they have one for former war zone service.

Response by PO2 Gregory Horst made Aug 30 at 2018 8:47 PM

PO2 Gregory Horst — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:47:09 -0400

History is good, don’t change.

Response by SMSgt Frank Shaw made Aug 30 at 2018 8:49 PM

SMSgt Frank Shaw — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:49:13 -0400

Shows what unit you were in combat with!

Response by CPL Joel Jameson made Aug 30 at 2018 9:42 PM

CPL Joel Jameson — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:42:21 -0400

Cause simply said! It shows pride in the unit you served in. We are not marines, if we wanted to be marines we would have been. But I don’t like the taste of crayons. Go army!!!

Response by PV2 Charles Adams made Aug 30 at 2018 9:48 PM

PV2 Charles Adams — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:48:04 -0400

This actually reeks of new recruits who have no combat patch getting jealous and want to ruin it for everyone else.

Response by CPL Alan Tindell made Aug 30 at 2018 10:05 PM

CPL Alan Tindell — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 22:05:41 -0400

The patches represent heroics lineages. Many of the Army unit patches are truly iconic—the 1st Cav, the Big Red One, the 101st Screaming Eagle and many more. I have my Army patches framed and on my office wall, Wisc and Ariz National Guard, 9th Infantry and 81st Armored Combat Brigade.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 10:11 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 22:11:42 -0400

Being a former Marine, I would say no. The U.S. Army also has proud traditions. Each patch beginning from the 81st Wildcat division to the 101st has their own proud history and traditions. What the Army needs to do is promote those history and traditions. Instill them in each new generation of young Soldiers and remind them that the patch they wear is a legacy of all those who came before them. The Marine Corps is just one corps so they can get away with having one emblem. The U.S. Army has many corps and divisions each with their own patch representing their heritage and history. We just need to do a better job honoring that history within our respective units.

Response by SGT Kevin Dills made Aug 30 at 2018 10:24 PM

SGT Kevin Dills — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 22:24:40 -0400

Soldiers take pride in the fact that they are Army and the unit(s) they served in. There is a ton of history in the unit patches. If we wanted to be like the Marines we would just lower the entrance standards. No one wants that. The fact that we are discussing this based on recruiting marketing data is ridiculous. Recruiters are a necessary evil but they are the used car salesmen of the Army. Obviously not all recruiters are that bad but there are a lot more concerned about “performance ratings” “Quotas” than history and probably most soldiers feel like their recruiters screwed them one way or the other. If someone asks what a patch is then simply tell them. Don’t suggest getting rid of unit patches due to laziness. Explaine the history of each patch they ask about. Explaine the history of the Army. Would you suggest getting rid of awards too because people don’t know what they all are? Simple answer...no.

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Aug 30 at 2018 10:40 PM

SSG Grant Hansen — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 22:40:07 -0400

NO!!!
The patch identifies where you are from and makes it easier for other soldiers to tell what your job is.

If I see a soldier with the All American patch, I have a pretty good idea who they are and what skills they have. With no patch, I'll have to ask who they are and where they are from. Civilians DO ask Marines what they do, you just never hear it.

By the way, what with this ridiculous trend toward copying the Marines?

If I had wanted to look like a Marine, I would have joined the Marines, not the Army.

Response by 1SG Edward Richards made Aug 30 at 2018 11:01 PM

1SG Edward Richards — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:01:29 -0400

I wear my baseball cap with the unit imprint and with my jump wings on the top left side of the Cap an d a pathfinder badge on the top right side, and of course I have the halo wings on the bottom left of the cap. I make trips to MacDill AFB, home of United States Central Command and United States Special Operations Command. Last month I was shopping a gentleman about my age asked when I finish Halo tng I told the gentleman and he replied I piloted a C130 pilot out old Pope Field and dropped you guys all over Ft Bragg. Then he told me he also piloted a few HALO jumps. And what month and year I completed Halo I replyed with the date seems he piloted a few jumps I was on. Shook hands and we both said small world after all Airborne.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 11:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:11:53 -0400

The fact that this is even being proposed is a bit upsetting to me. I’ve always felt that unit/combat patches were a thing of great pride, worn with dignity and commanded a level of respect. The day I earned my combat patch with the 1st Cavalry Division was one of my proudest moments in the army. Live The Legend!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2018 11:30 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:30:41 -0400

Patches just tell you who you belong to and also if you have been to a combat zone they tell other people who you went with. The army is much bigger than the Marine Corps. The patches give us some identity. They also make the army unique.

Response by SPC Terry Haigler made Aug 30 at 2018 11:48 PM

SPC Terry Haigler — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 23:48:32 -0400

I enjoyed telling civilians what I did as a combat engineer. It was something I was very proud of. It was a conversation opener. Leave my Army alone. What the Marine Corps does is it's own business. What the Army does is theirs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 12:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 00:36:47 -0400

I’m in USAREC and I’ve never seen this ad an issue. I love being asked about the patches. And the US ARMY on my chest says enough.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 1:23 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 01:23:17 -0400

I was AD Marines for 8yrs, and now Army. I love the clean look of our Marines, but having the unit and deployment patches are a symbol of honor, of esprit de corps, and for the noobs, it helps them belong to their unit and something to look up to. I remember receiving my first unit patch and feeling like I was a part of that family, and when I got to put in that deployment patch, the perception of those under me changed from team mate to mentor.

Response by PFC David McLeod made Aug 31 at 2018 2:30 AM

PFC David McLeod — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 02:30:06 -0400

Screw the civilians and the marines. No one wants to ask a marine what they do and if they did the answer would be a short, "I kill things".
Our patches are for us, one glance and we know if just what we're dealing with. Our patches are our resume.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 4:13 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 04:13:59 -0400

Nous resterons la...suck it up!

Response by George Holiway made Aug 31 at 2018 8:25 AM

George Holiway — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:25:18 -0400

Keep the distinguished unit patches. If you want to be “like” a USMC then join the USMC.

Response by Sgt Jon Sanders made Aug 31 at 2018 8:49 AM

Sgt Jon Sanders — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:49:32 -0400

I say the army keeps their patches they have history too. Nothing is more iconic than airborne or the air cavalry. I dont like that traditions.and uniforms are becoming neutral.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Aug 31 at 2018 9:03 AM

SFC David Xanten — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:03:22 -0400

I spent 8.5 years as a recruiter in NE PA and never lost anyone to the Marines. Yes they have pretty uniform, but they are still looking, after 250 years, a few good men. One would think they would have found them by now.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 9:11 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:11:11 -0400

What we should take from the USMC is instilling the history and traditions into each and every Soldier from BCT/OSUT to retirement. What I mean is you can ask any Marine what the USMC’s birthday is and they can tell you. How many Soldiers know when the Army’s birthday is? In my opinion all of that starts in BCT/OSUT. I have saw a lot of traditions go to the wayside in my 16 years. I understand we have been at war my entire career but we no longer teach/practice D&C, there is no cadence calling except in schools, inducting new NCO’s is hazing. I feel a lot of our rich history and traditions are being lost. When you become an NCO use to mean something, how about we bring back NCO induction ceremonies/socials. To help build es spirit de corp I think every unit in garrison should host a dining in/out. We definitely need to get make to a training like we fight mentality, i.e. a unit convoying to a FTX treat that convoy like a tactical move not just an admin move. When you get on site pull security until the entire unit is there. If you are on the range do you qualification and then conduct live fire exercises, like close quarters shooting, stress shooting, etc. I think as leaders we get lost in the check the box mentality inside of training like me fight. Sorry but that is my thought, I love my patches and take pride in them. I say keep the patches and change the training mentality.

Response by SFC Dave Bradeen made Aug 31 at 2018 10:15 AM

SFC Dave Bradeen — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:15:00 -0400

Patches help identify which unit a Soldier is assigned or attached to.

Response by SFC David Bellerue made Aug 31 at 2018 10:17 AM

SFC David Bellerue — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:17:11 -0400

Does it make a difference? All they are is unit identifiers or training accomplishments. The Marines have them too. They just display them on certain uniforms. Whatever. It takes every branch and MOS to make our military. One can't do without the others.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 31 at 2018 10:44 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:44:34 -0400

NO ITS HISTORY BEHIND ALL THE PATCHES.

Response by MSG Jim Booker made Aug 31 at 2018 11:39 AM

MSG Jim Booker — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:39:03 -0400

I also was a recruiter and it’s not the patches that make civilians ask what do you do. Unlike the Marines the Army is known for having multiple MOSs and not known as strictly combat personnel.

Response by LtCol Don Kaag made Aug 31 at 2018 11:41 AM

LtCol Don Kaag — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:41:51 -0400

Unit patches are not there for civilians. Unit patches are for other people in the military. Civilians haven’t a clue. They can’t even ID military personnel in fatigues/utilities by Service, let alone know what patches and qualification badges mean. The Marine Corps is a small outfit compared to the Army. The Corps dropped Division patches on uniforms after WWII, but it has always used the Eagle, Globe & Anchor.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 1:18 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:18:32 -0400

no- a dip shit recruiter doesn’t get to unwind a hundred plus years of history with unit patches for branding purposes. It is one more way to eliminate the combat shoulder sleeve insignia- that makes the have nots jealous. We are different than marines, we should continue to be different than marines. Congrats to the corps on branding.

Response by SP5 Thomas Baertsch made Aug 31 at 2018 1:19 PM

SP5 Thomas Baertsch — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:19:27 -0400

USMC are all grunts, they don’t have support units like the Army. USMC his in kicks ass and moves on to the next battle. Army is designed to fight a battle and hold the ground. Keep the holding units re supplied and create a rear support area. It takes many different units to accomplish the mission. Thus the many different patches.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 1:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:29:24 -0400

Recruiters are wrong. To be honest units should have more distinctive dress uniforms. It promotes better esprit de corps. That pride in unit and history is something that will drive soldiers to push to be better.

Response by 2LT Brad Klopp made Aug 31 at 2018 1:54 PM

2LT Brad Klopp — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:54:31 -0400

Having served 5 years Marine Corps and 4 years Army I have an experienced opinion. Patches are a part of Army culture. Soldiers are proud of our patches . It’s part of our identity, who we are, who we serve and who we served with. ( The combat patch ) The US Army is sovereign in its identity and has many traditions especially with their uniforms, some very unique, for example the Air Cav hat or red socks for artillery. Keeping these traditions I believe is an essential part of Espirit de Corps. & pride
The Marine Corps being much smaller are taught from day one in the Marines that the title United States Marine is all the identity you need. The honor of being worthy to wear the Eagle Globe and Anchor is all the identity they want on their uniform. Regardless, even the Marines wear special badges; jump wings, SCUBA Badge and now the Raiders have their own insignia.
Soldiers and Marines share a common mission and ethos and yet are most certainly two completely different cultures.
I say keep the patches and hold closely to traditions.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Stone made Aug 31 at 2018 3:30 PM

SPC Jeffrey Stone — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:30:55 -0400

The ARMY should you away with Velcro patches. They look like shit. It’s a uniform not a set of Legos.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 3:55 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:55:31 -0400

The Army isn’t getting beaten in recruiting by the Marines because we wear patches and they don’t. We suck at recruiting because our slogan sucks, our commercials suck, and up until very recently our uniforms sucked. Very few Marines actually are infantrymen that kick down doors and blow stuff up; they have hundreds of “soft skill” MOS’s just like the Army does. However, every Marine commercial is climbing mountains, slaying dragons, and storming beaches.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 4:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:19:31 -0400

Patches have been apart of the Army for a long time. People take pride in the unit they are and those of us who have a RRSI we take pride in serving in combat. Stop trying to change stuff all the time. The new ASU is just fine. Personally I wish they added patches back and got rid of that stupid combat pin.

Response by SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy made Aug 31 at 2018 4:36 PM

SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:36:52 -0400

Is this more political insanity?? The storied past of Army units are revealed in their shoulder patch. Who would want this history to be obscured by a generic patch. The Navy uses a shoulder device up to pay grade E-6 to note the Ship or unit in which a Sailor is serving. A sailor wears this as a matter of pride in his ship or unit. The Army is not the Marine Corps so attempting to make a comparison is apples and oranges.

Response by SPC Michael Puckett made Aug 31 at 2018 5:42 PM

SPC Michael Puckett — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:42:01 -0400

Hell no! Stick with tradition!

Response by SFC John Tolley made Aug 31 at 2018 6:06 PM

SFC John Tolley — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 18:06:31 -0400

Never, that is what makes a member proud.

Response by MAJ Louis Giamo made Aug 31 at 2018 6:51 PM

MAJ Louis Giamo — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 18:51:38 -0400

If you are a recruiter and you are asking this question, you need to find another position. The questions about the unit patches should be the opening for a dialogue a nd a way to show the rich history of the US Army.

Response by SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass made Aug 31 at 2018 7:29 PM

SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:29:38 -0400

No, unit pride has always been the cornerstone of the military. The Marines are small a service & want being a Marine to be “the unit”. It’s bad enough that everyone gets a special badge now.
At one time if you saw a badge, above someone’s pocket, you knew it was something special. (Pilot, EOD, Airborne etc). Now it’s lost it’s meaning.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Aug 31 at 2018 7:48 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 19:48:22 -0400

My thoughts on this matter even though reading it two years later... Go to a simple Regimental Patch, Crest, Brass & US Army Disc and call it good! Covers all uniforms... For headgear, juniors, nothing, NCOs wear subdued at all times, Officers in the field - while in garrison, regular. It kills some of the tradition of the individual units, but does provide for a cost savings measure when it comes to articles of purchase bearing on the times of expenditures. Just one way to save money. That said, would lose our great army tradition of unity and I would not be fond of losing the individualism many of us are so fondly used to with regards to unit cohesion, bonding, jabbing, customary traditions of screwing with fellow units! Catch-22, some good, some bad, depends on the approach and how you look at the matter - cost savings, tradition, soldier’s morale, etc., a few things to consider when a decision to take action!

Response by LtCol Lourie Salley made Aug 31 at 2018 9:46 PM

LtCol Lourie Salley — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 21:46:44 -0400

The army is different from us. (Devildogs). In the Marine Corps, the officers know each other by name or reputation within a few years. Including the Reserves, we only field four Divisions. The Army is much larger. There are certain units that even Marines respect (like the 82nd Airborne, 75th Ranger Regt. The Green beenies), because they do a similar mission and we share a warriors mindset. Leave the Army's traditions alone. As an aside, I think that the Army's return to the pink and green uniform is classy. Best uniform y'all ever had...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 11:33 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 23:33:16 -0400

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2018 11:35 PM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 23:35:12 -0400

You get beat because we are Marines. It has nothing to do with the Eagle Globe and Anchor. However, the unit patches are unnecessary and create divisions within the Army. A Marine will never identify with their particular Wing or Division; we are all Marines. Half the Army cares more about the unit patch than the US Army on their chest.

Response by CPL Tim Cooper made Aug 31 at 2018 11:44 PM

CPL Tim Cooper — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 23:44:30 -0400

Keep the Patches! It's tradition! Solider take pride in the Division they serve I. I proudly wore the 8th ID patch and the ,194th Armor Brig patch.

Response by MAJ Douglas Dopp made Sep 1 at 2018 12:05 AM

MAJ Douglas Dopp — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 00:05:52 -0400

The civilianization of the Army has taken away so many things that give a give a sense of pride & belonging to something special. The Marines have stayed true to their history & traditions, to wit: regardless of uniform they look good. Army needs to go back the brown WW2 uniforms but keep the dress blues

Response by CPT Larry Goad made Sep 1 at 2018 12:30 AM

CPT Larry Goad — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 00:30:26 -0400

During 4 plus years of active Army service I learned that one time proven standing order in the Military was this.
When you have one you HAVE to draw another one. When you have two, you HAVE to turn one in.
This order covered any situation imaginable.
To be promotable each new lender had to figure out the present situation and respond accordingly. His/her efficiency rating and next promotion was based on how well or not the draw or turn in was carried out during his/her tour.

This patch controversy stinks of familiarity. Do we have one patch policy or two?
Personally, I say Army keep the patches and history policy, and let the Marine Corps keep theirs.

Response by Cpl Eric Honomichl made Sep 1 at 2018 2:03 AM

Cpl Eric Honomichl — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 02:03:38 -0400

SSG. To respectfully reply to your question many people mentioned below that we both share our difference as far as Es Sprit De Corp goes. Why do you value a civilians opinion when you have earned your patches with your blood sweat and tears. Break it down Barney style for them. Its like an Indian Tribe. we all have different markings for what tribes we are in and that's why there are different patches. just an idea. As a Marine i guess we won when it came to the Dress Blues... Sorry,but you guys have your own history and we have ours. Again civilians DON'T need to know the story behind your guys's patches,they need to earn it and a learn it and be indoctrinated to understand that thousands of soldiers died wearing that patch. Just like my Eagle Globe and Anchor. I earned it, I learned of all the Marines who died wearing it. To civilians they think "oh hey that's what Marines wear."

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Sep 1 at 2018 2:20 AM

CW5 Roger Jacobs — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 02:20:22 -0400

As a soldier who put 40 years in the Army I would say if we are loosing a branding war with the Marines it might be that our recruiters should study their history and heritage. Maybe then you can actually tell people why we have patches. You might also throw in that the Marines who fought in Bellau Woods in WWI wore US Army 2nd Infantry Division patches. Use it as an opportunity to point out that we have way more job opportunities than the Marines. If the Army is concerned so much about branding and competing with the Marines, the one lesson we should learn is to not change our uniforms every ten years. Above all I would recommend that our recruiters learn the history so they can talk intelligently and not take the lazy way out. While we are at it, let's educate the advertising firms so we don't come up with another stupid slogan of An Army of one.

Response by SSG Ken Schiffner made Sep 1 at 2018 2:38 AM

SSG Ken Schiffner — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 02:38:54 -0400

I would think anything that starts conversations with regards to the Army would be a good thing for recruiters. I wore 4 different patches with pride.

Response by TSgt Peter Law made Sep 1 at 2018 7:03 AM

TSgt Peter Law — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 07:03:17 -0400

They are asking you what you do. Isn’t that the whole point of recruiting, getting people to approach you? You get them talking to you and soon enough you get a recruit or a lead.

Response by SGT William Park made Sep 1 at 2018 8:20 AM

SGT William Park — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 08:20:00 -0400

Hell no! Unit pride, I am proud of my Tropic Lightning Patch, on my right sleeve and the Hell on Wheels, on my left

Response by SPC Andrew Millbank made Sep 1 at 2018 8:46 AM

SPC Andrew Millbank — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 08:46:07 -0400

It a sense of pride no way should they be removed. It’s motivation to achieve what you know is a higher standard to live up to.

Response by SSG Jim Lentz made Sep 1 at 2018 9:00 AM

SSG Jim Lentz — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 09:00:27 -0400

Having been in both branches, I would say keep your own Identity. As another commenter said, I stand a little straighter when I see a 1ID or 1AD (my units) patch just like I do when I see an EGA.

Response by PO1 Andrew Cabral made Sep 1 at 2018 9:41 AM

PO1 Andrew Cabral — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 09:41:37 -0400

The Marine Corps has always been seen as “ The Few, The Proud, The Marines” in recent history. They are a different breed. Not sailors, soldiers or airman. They are Marines. I served alongside Marines for more than half of my Navy career (as a Navy Corpsman). The Marine Corps has and always will live by its history and traditions. Why doesn’t the Army try that? You can not where anything like the Eagle, Globe and Anchor (EGA). It’s not who you are. Show pride in who and what you are! Don’t try to keep up with the United States Marine Corps...you will kill yourself trying.

Response by CPL(P) John Haste made Sep 1 at 2018 11:08 AM

CPL(P) John Haste — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 11:08:59 -0400

I'll keep this simple... As veterans, we all share a special bond as soon as we recognize each other in public. But that bond is expanded even further when you see someone with your patch(es).

It's a die hard tradition and it should remain.

As for civilians, I think it's a GREAT thing that they ask! It shows interest in what the service member does. If they STOP asking should be more of a concern.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2018 11:09 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 11:09:07 -0400

No, we have our own “symbol” but it’s only seen on our dress uniform. But out unit patches are distinct and are rooted in our heritage. The reason the Marines “beat” us in image is because they have a strong NCO Corps who hold thier Marines accountable. If you’ve ever worked with the Marines (I have) you’d see why they have a better image. It’s not because of branding or marketing, it’s because they live thier values and enforce standards. You rarely see an unimpressive Marine, but it the Army it can be hot and miss.

Response by SGT Tom Carlson made Sep 1 at 2018 11:22 AM

SGT Tom Carlson — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 11:22:23 -0400

When you look at a Marine in uniform you absolutely have no idea what they actually do. Are they infantry, tanker, cook, admin... When you look at a Soldier you have some idea of where they have been, what they have done, and where they are. Branch insignia on a dress uniform gives you an idea of there current career, combat patches, CIB, marksmanship, other skill identifiers let you know what they have done. I love the difference between the various branches. Beyond standardizing camo patterns I think it would be a detriment to any of the services to try to make them look the same for the sake of branding.

Response by PO1 Charles Clayborn made Sep 1 at 2018 12:14 PM

PO1 Charles Clayborn — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 12:14:20 -0400

Patches tell the story, the history of the Army. The “Big Red One”. “First Calvary”. The “Rainbow Division”. Wear them and show them with pride ( I was Navy ).

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2018 1:33 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 13:33:53 -0400

I as a Navy person, love my command patch and would never get rid of them. I stand proud under the command that gives me a patch to wear on my uniform. Hooyah!!! Army wise, keep them don’t get rid of them

Response by LTC John Dillard made Sep 1 at 2018 1:41 PM

LTC John Dillard — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 13:41:26 -0400

No! Just plain dumb.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2018 1:43 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 13:43:36 -0400

Shut your dirty mouth.

Response by CPT Timothy Crooks made Sep 1 at 2018 2:00 PM

CPT Timothy Crooks — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:00:39 -0400

The Marines are an elite amphibious fighting force that belongs to the Navy. They have rear forces too but they are Navel units.
No one asks what an Airborne Ranger does. Or Special Forces. They just happen to have evolved later in history. The Marines happen to pre date our nation. Many Navy and Marine traditions evolved from our earliest days at sea when our Navy was mostly patriots who were Royal Navy veterans.
I have worn several patches over my career, but the one I was most proud of was the American Flag.

Response by COL Brad Welch made Sep 1 at 2018 2:11 PM

COL Brad Welch — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:11:13 -0400

Absolutely not. Why try to mirror another branch of service? They can mirror us.

Response by SSG(P) Kristine Querol made Sep 1 at 2018 2:19 PM

SSG(P) Kristine Querol — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:19:49 -0400

Being a former Recruiter myself, I don’t believe the unit patches are the issue. Someone mentioned it in a previous comment, it is definitely a conversation starter and let’s you inform civilians of the different job opportunities the Army had to offer if they qualify. It’s a selling point. The reason the Marines are so successful is their image of exclusivity. Not everyone can be a Marine as expressed by their slogan “The few. The proud.” People know if Air Force, Marines or Navy reject them, they go to the Army because we’re less restrictive with our standards. Sad to say, USAREC chooses quantity over quality all day everyday. An even bigger issue though, those who usually walk through the door are the ones not qualified. The ones who are qualified you have to go searching the streets for like a needle in a haystack. Patches are part of our Army history, I wore mine with pride.

Response by Sgt Terry Reed made Sep 1 at 2018 2:20 PM

Sgt Terry Reed — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:20:59 -0400

I served in both branches and I think the army should keep the patches it's part of army history and unit history.

Response by MSG James Devereaux made Sep 1 at 2018 2:46 PM

MSG James Devereaux — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:46:47 -0400

Only those that aren’t proud of the unit/job they do in the army would want to get rid of the patch. As far as marines, they are ALL pretending to be infantry anyway. Like the way marines do it ? Go be one and leave the army alone. You’ve screwed with the damn uniforms enough so get back to the job of fighting war, it’s not a fashion show.

Response by SSgt Gerald Davis Jr made Sep 1 at 2018 2:57 PM

SSgt Gerald Davis Jr — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 14:57:36 -0400

After 9 years active and 3 years reserve with 2 tours in Vietnam as a Marine I transfered it the CA National Guard. I was waiting to run the PFT when the S-3 Major was telling me that I could not wear my 1st Marine Division patch on my Army uniform. As I was informing the Major that it was up to the Commanding Officer the Colonel greeted us as I saluted. The discussion ended as the Major noticed the First Marine Division patch on the Colonel's uniform. Turns out he had carried a radio when landing in Korea with the First Division.

Response by MAJ Nathan Butler made Sep 1 at 2018 3:26 PM

MAJ Nathan Butler — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 15:26:12 -0400

Keep the patches. Wear the patches with pride. Retired 1ID veteran.

Response by CPL Kerns Ward made Sep 1 at 2018 3:37 PM

CPL Kerns Ward — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 15:37:55 -0400

No No Hell No!!!

Response by SGT Jeff Fronk made Sep 1 at 2018 4:12 PM

SGT Jeff Fronk — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 16:12:24 -0400

I had plenty of people ask what I did. It had nothing to do with a unit patch. Recruiters should embrace the tradition and history the are a part of the units and their patches and past that on to recruits. If this is just jealousy of not being awarded a combat patch stuck it up and drive on. You made that choice. Yes the Marine Corps' uniforms are sharp. The Army made some poor decisions particularly with our dress uniforms. Blues and more formals looked good but the greens not so much. The proposal to switch back to a version of the pink and greens is one I support. I would even support a little update on the blues and have both issues. Is they want to use the pin on unit medallion on the front of the dress uniform I would go for that. On the combat uniforms though keep those patches on the sleeves!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2018 5:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 17:40:16 -0400

Put recruiters back into their Class B Tropical uniforms, and your problem is solved.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2018 6:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 18:30:51 -0400

The Marines have stuck with tradition and kept those dress blues basically the same. Look at their headgear fir the utility uniform. Unchanged. The Army cant go a decade without changing everything. The Army does not celebrate their history. My son just finished basic. They taught them 1 verse of the Army song. The marching was unimpressive.

Response by COL Lars Braun made Sep 1 at 2018 6:34 PM

COL Lars Braun — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 18:34:12 -0400

Response by SGT Russell Colburn made Sep 1 at 2018 6:34 PM

SGT Russell Colburn — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 18:34:29 -0400

Never had such a easy question. No.

Response by SSG Jay Reel made Sep 1 at 2018 6:59 PM

SSG Jay Reel — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 18:59:51 -0400

You left out 10th MTN. Your post means nothing now.

Response by SGT Brian Paine made Sep 1 at 2018 7:19 PM

SGT Brian Paine — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 19:19:07 -0400

After being in both branch’s myself, I do not see why this is an issue. It is a tradition and should not be changed or it will end up much like the black beret fiasco. The Marines don’t need patch’s to show who they are because of their discipline and physical fitness. The Army could learn something from that and improve on their selection process, discipline, and fitness standards!

Response by SFC Michael Fowler made Sep 1 at 2018 10:40 PM

SFC Michael Fowler — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 22:40:27 -0400

I served 7 years in USAREC and retired as a 79R. IMHP the Marines are beating us for two reasons. First we don't recognize that we have a rich and honorable history full of unique traditions i.e. unit patches. Second we are always trying to change our culture and traditions. I dont care what you do for the Army. If a civilian asks about your uniform be proud and take a few moments to teach our traditions and cultures.

Sorry for the rant. Don't change the patches.

Response by Rod Ploessl made Sep 1 at 2018 10:56 PM

Rod Ploessl — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 22:56:57 -0400

What a great recruiting opportunity!
Having kids asking what that patch means.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Sep 2 at 2018 3:35 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 03:35:53 -0400

Here's a thought...take it for what it's worth (which is a cup of coffee at McDonalds if you add a buck to it):

I know the slogan is gone now, but has that whole "Army of One" mentality gone yet?

There is not, nor has there ever been, an "Army of One". Unless we're talking about Chuck Norris, of course.

The Army, indeed ALL branches of the service, is about unity, teamwork, and cohesiveness. It's about individuals being part of a greater whole.

Young men and women who join the Army aren't looking for, or needing, a "loner" lifestyle. They want to be a PART of something.

Patches or no, THIS is what being in the Army SHOULD be about. You guys need to bring that back to the forefront, and you need to start as far back as your recruiting slogan.

Put it up front with your core values.

And speaking of Army core values...short, sweet, and to the point. Don't drone on and on with them. Trim them down to no more than three real CORE valurs that all else is based on.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 2 at 2018 5:20 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 05:20:23 -0400

I don't think the patches should be discarded from the Army uniforms , its part of history and pride in units. Each service of course rightfully can take pride in what they do. Whatever the service, We all had specific jobs We do within the structure as it is. I don't think a lot of civilians know the difference one way or the other anyway and often don't even know a service member or veteran.

Response by SFC Rick Forlines made Sep 2 at 2018 10:46 AM

SFC Rick Forlines — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:46:46 -0400

I was a recruiter also, and could frankly not care less what the marines do

Response by SFC Rick Forlines made Sep 2 at 2018 10:47 AM

SFC Rick Forlines — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:47:39 -0400

I recruited also and could not care less what the marines do

Response by Sgt Wesley Bennett made Sep 2 at 2018 2:14 PM

Sgt Wesley Bennett — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 14:14:36 -0400

Let me fist start off with the fact that I am a Marine. We are a different breed, we have different traditions, and we have a different history. The army should keep their patches as it defines them. Trying to be something they are not only destroys the history and traditions of the Army. Keep your patches and wear them with pride. Sgt USMC

Response by SSG Ryan Rink made Sep 2 at 2018 3:13 PM

SSG Ryan Rink — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:13:45 -0400

My 2cents don't mean anything to anyone, but I enjoy saying it because its not politically correct or socially acceptable.
You ready? (I'll get kicked off RP for this)
We're not t bye Marines, you want what they have? Join them. We're the Army a place where you can distinguish between the Units within it, inside of that you can find the Men and Women who have been there and done that (who you may want to strive to be like, remember they were shot at or maybe even blown up and are now standing in front of you) you can see that he walked the walk and survived. I wanna follow him. But no, you want to strip a hero of what he earned so a new recruit can feel special (theres short buses for that). Let the little whiney baby do what that patch holder has done and he can earn it also, but by stripping it you weaken the warriors of there honor for the sake of a recruit.
This is the United States Army to get to the top you have to work for it, if not step aside and give your slot to the recruit with no patches.

Response by MAJ Tom Hayes made Sep 2 at 2018 3:39 PM

MAJ Tom Hayes — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:39:48 -0400

The Army needs to keep its unit patches. Moving to a singular patch is one step closer to communistic environment. Stripping away individual identities and making every equal. My county has done this with the elementary schools. We now have 4 elementary schools in the high school cluster with the same mascot and all clusters match their closest HS ... to make everyone equal. Damn … I’m sounding more and more like my dad. Lol.

Response by SP5 Dan D made Sep 2 at 2018 4:06 PM

SP5 Dan D — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:06:52 -0400

Marines don’t have unit patches because it would confuse them! Lol. No need to change what isn’t broken. I liked my division patches. It’s a sign of pride and comrodery.

Response by Capt Hansel Bumgarner made Sep 2 at 2018 4:15 PM

Capt Hansel Bumgarner — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:15:31 -0400

All Marines wear the same cover. Motor T, Artillary, Supply, Aviator, Infantry. Doesn’t matter what they do. They are all Marines.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2018 4:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:48:32 -0400

It's NOT a contest. If someone wants to join they will. Every branch has their own appeal. There admins in other branches as well. Is it because they think all Marines do is kill for their country? Give me a break. Our patches are a symbol of our history and are worn with pride. You wanna bring numbers up then reinstitute the draft but keep your hands off my history. It is time to STOP changing everything to suit or appease someone else or because you feel it is causing a minor issue.

Response by Sgt Paul Baughman made Sep 2 at 2018 5:12 PM

Sgt Paul Baughman — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:12:55 -0400

I’m a veteran of both the Marines (‘RAH) and the Army. I’m very proud of the history and lineage of both the Corps and the 101st. Honestly, for all the crap that the Army gets for their patches and “flair,” they’re things to be proud of... things that were earned. Keep the patches...especially the combat patches.

Response by LTC Wynn Butler made Sep 2 at 2018 5:21 PM

LTC Wynn Butler — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:21:28 -0400

Keep the patches.

Response by Cpl Christian Troy made Sep 2 at 2018 6:21 PM

Cpl Christian Troy — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:21:33 -0400

I am Marine! Our brand has been better since 10 November 1775. No need to discuss the Army’s need to cover things up with PATCHES!

Response by MSG John Joseph made Sep 2 at 2018 6:42 PM

MSG John Joseph — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:42:55 -0400

No, absolutely not. I wore my unit patches with pride. The Army needs to get the dress uniform right, it looks ridiculous. The Marines are killing us and have it nailed down.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Sep 2 at 2018 7:35 PM

Cpl Clinton Britt — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 19:35:16 -0400

We have patches to. They are not part of the uniform

Response by SPC Daniel Melendez made Sep 2 at 2018 8:43 PM

SPC Daniel Melendez — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:43:09 -0400

No it’s about unit pride it’s what separates you from all the units the patch is a symbol and it mean something it’s a derivative of what the unit is about and what the unit is and it’s mission. So NO NO NO!! Don’t get rid of my beloved Unit Patch.

Response by MAJ Peter Picard made Sep 2 at 2018 11:52 PM

MAJ Peter Picard — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 23:52:28 -0400

As a former USAREC member, I believe the issue may be more simple than uniform appearance. Think of the recruiting approaches, the Marines ask for good people. The Army used to ask for folks that wanted to love up to their potential (Be all that you can be), then we asked people who focused on themselves (An Army of one). Still not sure if Army Strong is effective or not, but based on your comment, perhaps not. I am interested in what part of the country you are in.

Response by SSG Michael Raysses made Sep 3 at 2018 12:21 AM

SSG Michael Raysses — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 00:21:58 -0400

Cmon guys!... let's leave each other's particulars ALONE... each service department is PROUD of their services unit patches of designations.... and each SEAL of EACH branch, is special.... so can we just leave well enough alone!... SSG. Mike Raysses, USAR-Ret. (92-G30 QM CORPS).. HOOAH!..

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Sep 3 at 2018 1:01 AM

SSG Rick Miller — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 01:01:25 -0400

Absolutely not. Those insignia have history and meaning behind them. Maybe teach the newbies some of our history. If somebody asks what you do in the Ay, based on the patch, then explain what you do. Then explain what the patch represents. If that's toouch trouble for you, then find another profession. Every shoulder patch I ever wore, from the 24th Inf to the 3rd Group was worn with pride.

Response by PO3 Zion Swetnam made Sep 3 at 2018 1:09 AM

PO3 Zion Swetnam — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 01:09:06 -0400

No!!!!!!

Response by SSgt Bryan King made Sep 3 at 2018 1:59 AM

SSgt Bryan King — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 01:59:18 -0400

Response by LTJG Randall Newton made Sep 3 at 2018 2:25 AM

LTJG Randall Newton — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 02:25:28 -0400

As a Naval vet, I say No... those patches makes the Army unique.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Sep 3 at 2018 3:13 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 03:13:49 -0400

The Army and the Marines have evolved in two different directions when it comes to uniforms. The Marines are minimalist whereas they Army keeps coming up with new stuff to wear. As to branding, the Marines have found the simple, but effective, Eagle Globe and Anchor whereas the Army comes up with a new recruiting slogan every few years and has the Army Strong white star on a black background.

While the Marines have more brand recognition and image than the Army the bottom line is that the Army recruits more people than the Marines so they must be doing something right. Ultimately, enlistments in the Army are largely a function of the economy - when the economy is bad, enlistments go up. When the economy is good, the Army needs to offer more bonuses and benefits.

One thing that might be worth considering is redesigning the Army Seal which is collage of about 10 different things and is not used in any recruiting media. (It dates back to the American Revolution but, aside from its historic value, it has little to offer.)

Response by SPC Erik Thompson made Sep 3 at 2018 6:10 AM

SPC Erik Thompson — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 06:10:12 -0400

Yeah, who wants to wear the patch of the 82d Airborne? Who wants to wear the Sreaming Eagle of the 101st? Who would EVER want to wear a Ranger tab over the top of the patch?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2018 6:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 06:45:56 -0400

Stop comparing the U.S. Army to the Marine Corps. The Army is bigger, has a different job, and requires additional organization requirements. U.S. Army insignia, to include patches perform a function to include passing down lineage.

Response by Cpl Herb Valentine made Sep 3 at 2018 8:42 AM

Cpl Herb Valentine — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 08:42:31 -0400

As a former Marine I have always thought it strange that the Army would be so competitive with itself. Marines are Marines! It doesn’t matter what your MOS is or unit designation. I heard stories of units degrading other units of Soldiers. You guys shouldn’t be fighting amongst yourselves, you should be slamming the Jarheads!

Response by Sgt Mike Clark made Sep 3 at 2018 8:51 AM

Sgt Mike Clark — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 08:51:05 -0400

I was in the Marine Corps, my uncle was in the Army, to this day I relish his 5th Army patch. Unit designation is just straight up cool, period.

Response by SPC Rodney Rogers made Sep 3 at 2018 9:38 AM

SPC Rodney Rogers — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 09:38:19 -0400

so you want to trade the publicity of people noticing the Army patch and asking questions for oh he's just another marine? I thought the uniform also included the word "ARMY" but maybe that has been stripped away also?

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Sep 3 at 2018 9:43 AM

MAJ Bob Firth — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 09:43:20 -0400

"Branding" and "marketing"? Who cares what the Marines do? Stop giving out waivers for criminal activity and serious drug use.

Response by 1SG Garland Hamlett made Sep 3 at 2018 11:04 AM

1SG Garland Hamlett — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 11:04:33 -0400

Keep the patches. Do away with velcro patch and return the placement of patches prior to 9/11,i.e.flag below patch and those who are slick sleeves on the right, well deploy.
Also,keep the uniform to a minimum with badges... I do agree with the USMC and their uniform. Return the WWII style of uniform to include a Class B that compares with the USMC Class B. Forget how much or how many uniforms a soldier has. Soldiers need to quit whining and be a Soldier. Look like a Soldier and act like a Soldier . End of rant. 1SG Ret

Response by Sgt David Cook made Sep 3 at 2018 2:13 PM

Sgt David Cook — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 14:13:57 -0400

I served in both Army and Marines and I was proud of both uniforms. Why are traditions always tinkered with in the first place. I loved my Army unit patch.

Response by CSM William Yingst made Sep 3 at 2018 2:58 PM

CSM William Yingst — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 14:58:55 -0400

Dont mess with tradition or history. Each branch of service has its own traditions and history. This is one of several things thing that sets us apart.The U. S. Army would gain nothing by trying to be like another branch.

Response by PO2 Jim Stevens made Sep 3 at 2018 3:24 PM

PO2 Jim Stevens — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 15:24:28 -0400

I wore my 5th Infantry red diamond ♦️ with pride. You don’t have to fix what isn’t broken.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2018 4:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:25:42 -0400

Make a few ads of us slaying dragons after scailing a cliff and we'll do fine.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Sep 3 at 2018 4:36 PM

SPC Gary Welch — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:36:07 -0400

When did the service become a business that needs to be marketed

Response by LTJG John Poe made Sep 3 at 2018 8:38 PM

LTJG John Poe — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 20:38:37 -0400

Being Navy, I have no dog in this hunt. However, I'd say leave them alone. The individual unit distinction, to my mind, improves camaraderie and morale.

Response by SGT Mark Friedman made Sep 4 at 2018 8:30 AM

SGT Mark Friedman — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 08:30:33 -0400

Hell no... Patchs are a major part of esprit de corp. They give soldiers a feeling of family and friendly competition between divisions!

Response by SGT Vernon Cole made Sep 4 at 2018 10:11 AM

SGT Vernon Cole — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 10:11:25 -0400

Keep the patches, but do away with the of color. For instance the Special Forces patch should be teal blue, not of.

Response by SGT Vernon Cole made Sep 4 at 2018 10:14 AM

SGT Vernon Cole — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 10:14:27 -0400

That should read do away with the o.d.color and make them the color they are suppose to be.

Response by SFC Leo Mares made Sep 4 at 2018 11:47 AM

SFC Leo Mares — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 11:47:49 -0400

Keep th Patches ' The Marines are a small organization and there support comes mostly from the Navy also they have I believe 4 combat divisions and 2 or 3 are active and 1 inactive. The Army is a much larger organization and you spot different units by there patches .i.e. 1st Cav, 1st Armored, 1st id,,2ID, 2nd Armored, 4th ID, 3rd'Armed, 3rd ID, and numerous supporting units each has there different patches and each are recognized by there patches,

Response by SFC Harry H. made Sep 4 at 2018 12:34 PM

SFC Harry H. — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:34:22 -0400

With everything changing in the Army and so rapidly, perhaps this is why civilians have to ask these questions. Heck I'm only 9 months retired and they already changed WLC to BLC. The uniform changes every 10 years it seems. I say, respectfully, leave shit alone.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Sep 4 at 2018 12:41 PM

SFC Harry H. — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:41:14 -0400

Although I wish the Army would find that image and stick with it long enough.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Sep 4 at 2018 1:07 PM

SFC Harry H. — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 13:07:14 -0400

This might be the second gayest thing I've said, but I was on Pintrest (that being the gay part) and I made a comment which turned into an argument with a civilian. Someone posted the video of the two Army Soldiers being harassed at what appears to be Wal-Mart. Calling them killers and such. In the video it shows this E-6 defending himself, but what struck my attention even more so was the sunglasses on the back of the SSG's head. Btw, he had a recruiter badge on as well. So because I pointed that out as troubling to me and that the SSG was a professional and shouldn't let that bother him and just walked away instead of defending the military. I was jumped by about 10 different civilians telling me that the glasses wasn't a big deal and went on to discredit me and my post calling me unpatriotic.

My point that ties this into this article is, who cares what civilians think. We know, and shouldn't change our standards to appeal to the public. There are many things civilians will never understand about the military. I don't expect any of the 10 civilians to understand why we don't allow the sunglasses to be worn on the back of the head and why it's such a big deal to me. As I don't care about marketing the Army either. Either you want to serve or you don't, when you decide you will pick what branch is right for you.

Response by Chris McCabe made Sep 4 at 2018 2:28 PM

Chris McCabe — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 14:28:51 -0400

As a civilian, I don't think it's a good idea to remove individual unit identity. It's a symbol of your history and that you are a member of a long and storied organization. The are sometimes generations that have served in the same units. Even in my career, we have special units that require specialized training and or carry a certain level of esprit d'corps. It is not a participation award but a sign of achievement.

Response by CPT John Allen made Sep 4 at 2018 8:13 PM

CPT John Allen — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 20:13:10 -0400

Was just a lowly O-3 JAGC, most of that as a USAR doing TDYs. But I was trained by those wearing the Big Red One and Ranger tabs, and worked with 7th SF Group and the 82d. Still in awe of all of them. NEVER discard the patches.

Response by Cpl David D'Amato made Sep 4 at 2018 9:22 PM

Cpl David D'Amato — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 21:22:40 -0400

I was in the USMC and the Army. Patches and unit insignia are for the benefit of those that served in those units, not for civilians. They do not understand and we can't explain it to them nor is it necessary to even try!

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Sep 5 at 2018 10:09 AM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 10:09:41 -0400

So, basically, what you're saying is, civilians have forgotten how to ask questions? Unit pride should go a long way, but, obviously, you have forgotten to research what these patches are, and lineage of the units these patches represent? It wasn't just the Marines at Belleau Wood, 2nd ID was there as well, considering it was the only Army unit with a Marine in command. Or, how about the history behind 3rd ID, "Rock of the Marne?" The lineage of the 101st, or 82nd? You're in USAREC, you're the first line recruits see of the Army, and you can't even represent. You want to know the difference between the Army and the Marines? The Marines celebrate their history, the Army, in this day and age, seems to intentionally try and forget its history. Show some pride troop, learn the history of these units. I know the history of the units I served in, and proudly talk about my time with 2ID, the 101st, 17th AVN, etc...

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Sep 6 at 2018 7:59 AM

COL Rich McKinney — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 07:59:10 -0400

Keep Them! And I contend we need to go one further. The Left sleeve shows "who you belong to". EVERY soldier belongs to someone. Therefore every soldier needs something on their left sleeve. No exceptions. If an soldier is assigned to someplace that does not have their own patch, such as the Navy School of Music, there is still someone in the Army chain of command that owns them.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made Sep 6 at 2018 4:49 PM

CPT Dennis Stevenson — Thu, 06 Sep 2018 16:49:47 -0400

Patches are readable by those in the military. It tells me where you're coming from and where you are now. We don't expect civilians to wear a costume that identifies their workplace. It's history!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 12:55 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:55:09 -0400

As a former Marine and now Army, I have to say that it took me a little while to get used to the patches and stuff. I love the Marine Corps, "Once a Marine, Always a Marine", even though now I wear an Army uniform. Focus more on shooting and drill like the Marines and there will that many more ways to impress civilians

Response by SFC John Tolley made Sep 24 at 2018 3:58 PM

SFC John Tolley — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 15:58:57 -0400

Army has much more than Marines. Army patches are distinct.

Response by SFC Scott Higgins made Sep 25 at 2018 10:41 AM

SFC Scott Higgins — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:41:01 -0400

Well we have a variety of jobs to do in the Army, this is true. But the division patch shows where we belong. I read some of the other comments and it is true. I see someone else with a Big Red One on their sleeve, I know where they have been. I've been there myself. It is a source of pride for some, I know my combat patch is for me. For Recruits, it should be seen as a marketing tool. Think about The Patch on my Shoulder Jody call? What do you want to do in the service - Airborne - well 82nd Airborne is a patch for you. Repelling out of Helicopters well Screaming Eagle is yours. Knowing what the patch represents could help sell the service. I don't think they should get rid of the patch.

Response by Jennifer Thor made Sep 25 at 2018 11:20 PM

Jennifer Thor — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 23:20:04 -0400

Don't mess with perfection!

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Sep 30 at 2018 7:06 PM

PO2 Steven Michaeli — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 19:06:09 -0400

Keep them and USMC, bring them back. They used to wear division patches, why did they go away?

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Oct 1 at 2018 5:27 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 17:27:32 -0400

I really don't have a dog in the fight, I'm retired Navy, but I worked with the Army quite a bit during a 20-year career. Frankly, all the stuff they've got on their uniforms is a bit like overkill. I think all you need is your name, rank and service branch, and that's about it, particularly on working uniforms. Dress uniforms? Way too many accoutrements and appurtenances. Wearing little says a lot.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2018 8:47 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:47:46 -0400

"no questions needed"? 1. We want civilians asking questions, and Soldiers answering within their scope of knowledge and OPSEC. 2. It's been my experience, that it's former Marines who go into the Army Reserve/National Guard, that go on and on about wanting to be able to wear combat patches that even the USMC doesn't put on uniforms. SO.. better answer would be to let Marines wear their patches.

Response by SPC Michael Osatchuck III made Oct 2 at 2018 7:15 PM

SPC Michael Osatchuck III — Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:15:29 -0400

Absolutely not! It's a sense of pride for some people to have worn the 1at Cav, the Big Red 1, or the Special Forces. Inwas in the XVIII Airborne Corps. It's a sense of pride. The Armybis not the Marines. Would you yt ake away their dress uniform and make them look like the Army? I don!t think so.

Response by CPT John McDougle made Oct 6 at 2018 9:24 PM

CPT John McDougle — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 21:24:03 -0400

I wore numerous unit patches during my 14 years in the Army. Who cares what the civilians say, leave the patches alone.

Response by SSG Michael Williams made Oct 7 at 2018 2:09 PM

SSG Michael Williams — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:09:13 -0400

No.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2018 2:42 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 14:42:45 -0400

I agree Marines are easily recognizable by their tough guy rolled-up sleeve look, their distinguished 3-bowed cover or cap and every Marine is a rifleman idea. The Army has gone soft on PT test and allowing females in the combat arms. That's why the Army didn't meet their recruitment goal again.

Response by SFC George Loder made Oct 16 at 2018 12:23 AM

SFC George Loder — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:23:27 -0400

Many of those bits of color contain history going back to WW1 (1st Infantry Division) most to at least WW2. In today's Armed Forces, no matter what the job, one is subject to some sort of combat action (coming under fire in one form or another). The Marines are a small unit, the main ground forces of the Navy, in origin, a divisional size force, highly mobile (as separate smaller units) for specialized action, and most civilians realize this. In fact most civilians do not realize that the Marines have other MOSs in fields other than that of Infantry.
The Army, being a larger force (comprised of many specialized units) is assigned tasks which are much larger in scope and mission (that's why civilians ask, "What do you do in the Army?") Gone are the days where the main requirements were to be able to; "pick-off a man at 500 yards with a M-1 Garand, throw a grenade farther than anyone on the block, and take a bath in ditch water" (from "TO HELL AND BACK", Audie L. Murphy).
I find it rather disconcerting that anyone would want to strip the tradition, history, and esprite d'corps from any unit. Confidentially, I think that who ever posed this question should be made to escort tours for one year through the US Army Museum, now being built on Route 1 outside of Ft. Belvoir, VA.
PS, in the old school, nobody trusted a Recruiter!!!

Response by Kaylee Blanton made Oct 20 at 2018 1:20 AM

Kaylee Blanton — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:20:14 -0400

No way. The patches are cool and make it so everyone knows what area you serve in!

Response by SSG Shauna Holmes made Oct 21 at 2018 8:49 PM

SSG Shauna Holmes — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:49:58 -0400

I enlisted in '92, just in time to miss Desert Storm. I was probably impressed by people wearing combat patches, possibly wished I had one so I wouldn't look like a POG. Then again, being in COSCPM at Bragg put me in a different world - "dirty, nasty leg".
Fast forward to '99 when I got to Campbell and met a guy who had SIX - 6 -patches. He wore a different uniform each day of the week. Still, I'm impressed, but didn't feel like I was "nothing". Once again, fast forward to '07. This time, I ended up deploying and got my first patch. (Hey, when one PCS to a TRADOC unit two months before stop-loss goes into effect, one kinda gets locked in)
And after my deployment? If someone doesn't have a patch, it doesn't affect me and I'm not about to look down on anyone. Being non-airborne at Bragg taught me that.

Response by Marvin Hebert made Oct 22 at 2018 11:29 AM

Marvin Hebert — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 11:29:06 -0400

Is it just me or was that the dumbest question I've ever heard?

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Oct 30 at 2018 1:55 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 13:55:13 -0400

The Army uniform tells a story about the individual. No need to change the uniform. Be proud of it!

Response by SGT Frank Washburn made Nov 4 at 2018 6:29 PM

SGT Frank Washburn — Sun, 04 Nov 2018 18:29:02 -0500

We seem to be willing to do away with our history.and what makes us special.it needs to stop.for some reason our uniforms keep changing.as a paratrooper in the 82n we earned our berets.but it seems everyone wanted one so some higher up thought oh let’s give them to everyone.then it was the stress cards,the walk not run PT.change the boots,change the uniforms.these do nothing to boost morale.so stop screwing with our military history.and get back to being soldiers.

Response by Lt Col Walter Green made Nov 6 at 2018 1:06 PM

Lt Col Walter Green — Tue, 06 Nov 2018 13:06:56 -0500

The Air Force took patches off the service uniforms early on in its existence as a separate service. On the one hand that simplified the uniform, and made for a cleaner appearance (cynics would say that it was the first step toward McPeak's ideal of looking like airline pilots). However, the squadron, wing, and major air command patches were retained on the flight suit, and in my experience, were symbols worn with considerable pride. Army patches have a much longer heritage, going back to corps badges in the Civil War, and have always been worn with considerable pride, certainly so by combat veterans. Screwing with heritage and pride is never a good idea in an organization that depends on high morale for a good part of its combat efficiency. And seeing a patch on the shoulder is very much like seeing someone's ribbon rack and badges. You know something about who they are and how they fit into your universe.

Response by PO2 Charlie McGowin made Nov 6 at 2018 1:14 PM

PO2 Charlie McGowin — Tue, 06 Nov 2018 13:14:21 -0500

They tried to change Navy ratings and failed. It is about tradition :the vets relate to the boots, in my lowly swabby opinion on anything Army. Thanks

Response by SFC George Loder made Nov 15 at 2018 12:57 PM

SFC George Loder — Thu, 15 Nov 2018 12:57:31 -0500

From the first time that people have sent out groups of combatants to settle disputes, be it just to define hunting grounds or settle grudges over a stolen wife; mankind has utilized markings of some sort to identify who was in what unit. Ancient Egyptians utilized colors, the Spartans the inverted "V", the Romans had their unit standards lead the way, Israel adapted the "Star of David", in Feudal Europe this practice continued to identify not just the country but the family of the various unit commanders. (The art of heraldry is still in practice in many areas). During the Korean War the need for troops at the front was so rigorously enforced by the rear echelon military police, that combat engineers were forced at gun point to leave their assigned jobs and head to the front in an effort to round-up any malingers; this problem was solved, to a degree, when the engineers adapted a horizontal red stripe at knee level. (you don't get your supplies, you can't fight for long.)
There is also a side effect of Individual Unit Distinct Insignia and associated shoulder patches, that is the "esprit de corps" one develops being in such a unit. When combat lines were more defined, it was easier to define "the front", as my old man (who received a battle field commission, during his unit's first action in WWII) once informed several "older troops" during the early years of Viet-Nam (when Korea was the last big one), "His war is much different than ours, we knew where the front was and the enemy wore uniforms; in my son's, the front is 360 degrees and more than likely they're wearing civvies and you don't know when they'll turn" It has been that way ever since, every unit/individual, regardless of task, MOS, or assigned location has become a target (sometimes from our own misguided people).
There is much pride in being a grunt, and most of us can meet the major qualifications, set down in Audie Murphy's "To Hell And Back", i.e., "...take a bath in ditch water, pick off a guy at 100 yards with an M-1 Garand, and throw a grenade farther than anyone else in the block..." But we all have other jobs we must do as well; and if some civilian doesn't understand today's Army and the system of unit identification, either ignore them or educate them. The choice is yours, they think we are all grunts anyway.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2018 10:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Nov 2018 10:15:17 -0500

No. That is all.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Nov 17 at 2018 4:30 PM

SFC Richard Baerlocher — Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:30:04 -0500

I was first a cook, then went back to school and became a Subsistence Supply Supervisor/Logistics. I was in the Third Armored Division, V Corps, USARV, Ft Lee, Ft Jackson SC, 8th Infantry Division, and Ft Leavenworth MP Brigade. I changed my Division patch with every transfer, and was always proud of the Division/Post I was stationed at. The Division/Post patch is a great tradition of the Army, and it should continue.

Response by SSG Carl Gamel made Nov 24 at 2018 11:44 PM

SSG Carl Gamel — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 23:44:43 -0500

Put in the recruiting stations posters will the unit patches and let the recruiters explain the proud traditions of the Divisions and how proud it is to earn the right to wear one.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Nov 25 at 2018 8:29 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 20:29:54 -0500

I think the Army should keep using patches. The USMC is good and can keep The way they are or change its up to them. I like the old Raider patches from WWII my Dad was in the 2ed Raiders and one of my son in laws grandfather was in the 4th Raiders.

Response by LCpl Arthur Granville made Nov 26 at 2018 1:15 AM

LCpl Arthur Granville — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:15:32 -0500

USMC has their patches too. The Army cannot co-opt our EGA. Anything the Marines have is theirs and theirs alone. Notice the Marines don't put all the bling on their uniforms like the Army does. We have a simple Combat Ribbon for those who were in combat against the enemy. The Army has the Combat Infantryman's Badge(which is kind of nice). We don't need all that bling on our uniforms.

Response by SFC John Tolley made Nov 27 at 2018 7:22 PM

SFC John Tolley — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 19:22:24 -0500

Army patches signify a group within a much larger group. Marines are excellent at what they do. Soldiers are also, over a much wider range of Tasks.

Response by CPL Rick Lindholm made Jan 11 at 2019 8:15 PM

CPL Rick Lindholm — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 20:15:16 -0500

Spoken like a slick sleeved POG

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2019 10:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:48:34 -0500

Either way both have to be asked what they do. When I wore my BDUs and Dress Blues in the Corps. I got asked all the time what I did in the Corps. Same since I've been in the Army. The patches are part of history and should be left alone... JMHO

Response by SFC James Donald made Jan 13 at 2019 3:44 AM

SFC James Donald — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:44:31 -0500

Honestly one of the dumbest questions I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading. Why in the hell would you want to get rid of the patches worn on the US ARMY (not US Marines) uniform? We’re not getting beat by any service in that aspect. I spent 23 years in the US Army/Kansas Army National Guard and I had way more positive comments and interactions because of the patches.

Response by SPC Robert Patrick made Jan 15 at 2019 9:40 AM

SPC Robert Patrick — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:40:40 -0500

I would say keep the patches. Even as someone who didn’t deploy to a combat zone each patch I have holds a bit of significance and pride. Each unit I was in aided me in growing as a Soldier, a professional and an individual. Those if someone asks I would be proud to tell the exactly what I did with in the confines of Opsec of course.

Response by SP6 Billy Dillard made Jan 15 at 2019 10:23 AM

SP6 Billy Dillard — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:23:17 -0500

The lack of patches don’t make Marines. It’s the history and legacy. Espirit De Corps. Marines have it instilled in them and it shows. The Navy comes close, but no other branch makes their members feel special like the Marines do. The public simply sees their swagger. Job well done Marines ! And FYI, I am a Air Force and Army veteran.

Response by CPL Chris Palmberg made Jan 15 at 2019 10:47 AM

CPL Chris Palmberg — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:47:06 -0500

Unless you're in the business of selling something where brand or origin is immaterial, such as gasoline, questions are a good thing. How much research did you do before choosing your current POV? Your current residence? Did you ask questions?
By the same token, the individualized facets of a soldier's uniform present a myriad of reasons for a contact to ask questions. Most civilians don't know the difference between a CAB, and jump wings. They will ask repetitive, frequently irritating questions about your uniform, etc. Embrace the Suck. It is human nature to ask questions as a means of reaching a decision. When they stop, it means their decision has been made.

Response by SSG Roland Shelton made Jan 16 at 2019 11:15 AM

SSG Roland Shelton — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 11:15:40 -0500

No, the Army has a rich history involving many units of distinction. While they are all part of the Army, they need to retain their individual contributions. I don't see
the need forl the public recognition. While I mean my Marine brothers and sisters no ill, they are Marines, we are Soldiers.

Response by SGT Jeff Yarger made Jan 16 at 2019 9:13 PM

SGT Jeff Yarger — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 21:13:57 -0500

As a multi tour and totally disabled Vietnam veteran, l say keep the unit patchs, no matter what the Marines do or don't do.
If you take away the Unit Patches, you'll be killing the comradery and esprit de corp enjoyed by our Army units.
Just by looking at an Army troop, one can actually tell a lot just by "reading" his uniform,.... even fatigues.
You can tell if he served in a combat zone by the unit patch he wears on his right shoulder and his current unit by the patch on his left shoulder. Also, by the presence of a CIB, you can tell if he saw combat. Other patches and badges signify if he was jump qualified, was an air craft crewman, had Ranger training and much more.
If they take away these insignias, your saying that grunts are no different than pogs or remfs and there is a big difference!
It does however sound like something that some damn liberal came up with though.
It's about like kids on every team getting the same participation trophey.

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Jan 17 at 2019 2:38 AM

SSG Grant Hansen — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:38:05 -0500

NO!!!!!

Idiots look at Marines and think they're all 0300 infantry, but in reality a LOT of them are admin, supply, and other REMFs.

The patches !ay confuse non-military types, but to those in the Army, they make a lot of sense.

Not to mention, when I was sent to Iraq I was assigned to the 1st Marine Division and was subsequently authorized to wear a 1sr Mar Div patch.You would not believe the number of Marines that told me they wished they could have worn one just like it.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Jan 17 at 2019 12:53 PM

MAJ Bob Firth — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:53:18 -0500

I will give up my unit patches when they pry them from my cold, dead hands.

Response by SPC Matt R made Jan 17 at 2019 2:57 PM

SPC Matt R — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:57:16 -0500

I think some of the comments here fall in line with mine...in that the unit patches are a very big deal in the Army. Walking through the PX or on post, one is always looking at soldiers patches. Patches represent your dedication to a specific job, unit, etc. The patches signify brotherhood/sisterhood in arms when you see someone with the patch you also wore or still wear. Then there's the history, and we just can't deny how big that history is for certain units, like The Big Red 1, 82nd Airborne or the 101st. Other tank batallions, Field Artillery, Infantry, and the list goes on and on. We are not being beat in this area by any other service whatsoever, and in fact we are decades ahead and should protect the history of the patch and its meaning for every service member within the US Army.

Response by SGT Michael McGiboney made Jan 17 at 2019 3:09 PM

SGT Michael McGiboney — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 15:09:22 -0500

This right here is straight from the good idea fairy. You have no understanding, virtually none, of what goes through the mind of a young male looking to get into the military. These various patches are the esoteric symbols of warriorhood to a young preteen and teenage boy. To the men that have worn and wear these patches, they are symbols of pride, unit culture and history.
It is also apparent you failed to read the Napoleon’s and Frederick the Great’s musings on the extremely important unit identity and esprit de corps.
Imagine the look someone would have gotten if you’d stood up in front of a council of Cheyenne or Lakota Sioux warriors and suggested that all the warrior societies gets rid of their unique regalia: Dog soldiers get rid of your red paint and spiked sweet gum ball like headdress, Elkhorn soldiers get rid of your yellow paint and lances hooked on one end, Fox soldiers get rid of your red bows and fox pelt, Crazy Dogs get rid of your hail and lightning paint and antelope horns, and let’s all wear the same thing.
Have you ever looked at a detailed order of battle from the Napoleonic wars? Have you ever looked at all the regimental flags that soldiers on both sides created for themselves during the American Civil War?
The Marines benefit from a media created mythology that began in World War I with Belleau Wood, while the heroic actions of a small motorized machine gun element of the 3rd ID keeping the entire front from collapsing was a footnote in the newspapers in comparison.
The unit diversity on the shoulders of army uniforms is an advantage, as a recruiter you should hope that the Marines don’t start copying us.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 7:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:22:36 -0500

Are our implying that Marines don’t have an MOS? You still have to ask them what they do.

Response by SPC John Squire made Jan 17 at 2019 7:35 PM

SPC John Squire — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:35:55 -0500

I'll keep my unit patches thank you. There is a rich history behind everyone. If a civilian asks you what you do, tell them with pride.

Response by LTC Michael Garrison made Jan 17 at 2019 8:41 PM

LTC Michael Garrison — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 20:41:17 -0500

There is a lot of pride and history in these patches and they should remain. Making all soldiers "the same" is not a good idea. Remember the berets.

Response by SFC Steve Thomas made Jan 17 at 2019 9:23 PM

SFC Steve Thomas — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:23:24 -0500

Response by CPL Aaron Brown made Jan 17 at 2019 9:35 PM

CPL Aaron Brown — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:35:20 -0500

It seems to me the Marines have a better image because it’s consistent. I know marines have more than one dress uniform. But you only ever see them in one and that is their brand. It seems the Army makes a uniform change about once a year. Even though the uniform changes the patches don’t and that’s an important part of the army’s image and should remain so, because it represents the Army’s history.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 9:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:36:28 -0500

Maybe if we went back to see on patches and shiny leather boots startched uniforms and took some pride in how we look as soldiers, and wore class A and B uniforms more often we wouldn’t feel like we were up against them

Response by SPC Joseph Johnson made Jan 17 at 2019 10:58 PM

SPC Joseph Johnson — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:58:11 -0500

In a word, no. Individual unit identifiers and distinctive unit insignia are a part of the rich history and tradition of the US Army

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2019 11:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:59:44 -0500

They are a part of history. Leave the patches alone....JMHO

Response by SFC Jim Hall made Jan 18 at 2019 12:01 AM

SFC Jim Hall — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:01:12 -0500

I call BS. The Army has had patches for over 100 years. Although the corps has them they’ve never really used them. If you’re getting beat in recruiting it’s the recruiter not the patch. I spent 7 years in recruiting in some of the toughest markets there are. You want to do away with our history to copy the Marine Corps history. It’s a cop out.

Response by CWO4 Brook Kelsey made Jan 18 at 2019 12:34 AM

CWO4 Brook Kelsey — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:34:21 -0500

US Army shoulder patches were standardize during WWI for the 2nd Army Division commanded by Maj Gen John A. Lejeune. In a telegram to the commanding general of American Expeditionary Forces dated Oct. 21, 1918, Lejeune wrote, “The white star with Indian head painted in two colors has been used in the division for some time … [T]he plan for procuring designs are already under way, and it is urgently recommended that the design for insignia for the Second Division as submitted be approved and that approval be telegraphed at the earliest possible date.” So you may thank the Marines!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2019 2:48 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 02:48:56 -0500

No! Those patches tell history. The Marines are a helluva bunch of warriors that have earned the respect given with that blood stripe. I truly love every one of those crayon munchers. But...we are the Army and that patch worn left or right shoulder has a history that WE and our grandfathers or fathers have earned to wear and respect as much as that blood stripe. I can’t tell you how many times an old soldier came and pointed to one of my patches and said “I wore that patch in WWII, Korea or Vietnam. I’m glad to see it’s still around. If you’re a recruiter (salesmen) than you should know your product and it’s historical value. BTW, I enlisted in 1981 and I am currently in the Army Reserve ENGINEERS! If YOU feel the Marines are easier to sell because they don’t have patches...then go be a Marine. Our patches are who we are. I don’t think you have what it takes to be a Marine.

Response by PFC Charles Sanders made Jan 18 at 2019 6:40 AM

PFC Charles Sanders — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:40:15 -0500

And what exactly do they think Marines do? Just because a civilian “knows” something doesn’t mean they’re right. I prefer the Army’s system, personally. I can look at a soldier and instantly know a lot about their background (current unit, if they deployed, who they deployed with, etc...) that I don’t get with the marines. The Army’s system just seems to be more effective for those actually in the service. The Army’s branding is fine (do you really think someone in this country doesn’t know what the army is?)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2019 7:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 07:04:50 -0500

While on recruiting, I continued to wear my maroon beret. That’s a piece of flair that civilians knew right off the bat and they wanted to know your Army story. I must agree with one of the posters in saying that, as an Army Recruiter, you should want civilians asking about your badges, patches and tabs. Be kind and courteous, answer their questions and then step through the door they opened and tell them about the Army.

Response by Capt Kent Jones made Jan 18 at 2019 7:35 AM

Capt Kent Jones — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 07:35:44 -0500

The only way to reason this REALLY matters is that less than 1 % of Americans ever serve in the morning military....

Response by SGT Andrew Sherman made Jan 18 at 2019 10:14 AM

SGT Andrew Sherman — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:14:08 -0500

No, next question.

Response by PO2 Gregory Horst made Jan 18 at 2019 11:14 AM

PO2 Gregory Horst — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:14:22 -0500

Don’t change, I someone ask about what you do that’s cool. Take a minute and talk to them, who knows you may be talking to a future solder who is unsure.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2019 2:16 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:16:08 -0500

Respectfully speaking, if you are a recruiter and the Army is losing the Marines on image, you are not doing your job, which is to sell the Army to the next generation of recruits.

Any student of history who looks at a sleeve and sees 1st Cav, the 82nd, 101, 10th Mountain, and the other active duty divisions sees the soldiers who have picked up the guidon from both the heroes of the past and our glorious dead. I am in awe of those patches and the Marines are missing out. I have seen Marines who joined the Army and put 1st or 2nd Marine on their right sleeve and I am in awe of them too, and the direct link to Guadalcanal, the Chosin Resevour, Viet Nam, and the Middle East.

It’s all in how you sell it. Those patches are there for a reason, a glorious reason.

Response by CSM John Nichols made Jan 18 at 2019 3:20 PM

CSM John Nichols — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:20:18 -0500

Patches identify us with units we are currently serving with or served with in combat. No need for civilians to understand. Those civilians that served will understand and be able to identify Soldiers with their units

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2019 3:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:40:41 -0500

This has to be the dumbest post that I have ever seen come from this platform .
Let’s bring back the pink and greens , oh , we are already doing that .
Just leave it all alone

Response by SPC John Poole made Jan 18 at 2019 3:42 PM

SPC John Poole — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:42:43 -0500

Sounds like u want to get rid of tradition to help u meet ur goal. Shame

Response by Cpl Pablo Torres made Jan 18 at 2019 3:54 PM

Cpl Pablo Torres — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:54:11 -0500

It’s kinda funny because I was in the USMC Infantry and when in the field during some rare down time we’d talk about how we thought the Marine Corps should have either a patch or pin to distinguish us from the pogs...

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Jan 18 at 2019 4:21 PM

CPT Jeff Robinette — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:21:32 -0500

Keep the Unit Patches.

Response by CPL Larry Wetterer made Jan 18 at 2019 4:46 PM

CPL Larry Wetterer — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:46:26 -0500

Never

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Jan 18 at 2019 5:21 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 17:21:51 -0500

Dumbest idea I have heard in years

Response by SSG Ed Hover made Jan 18 at 2019 6:26 PM

SSG Ed Hover — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 18:26:48 -0500

leave it alone. unless you’re a marine. Don’t take away unit pride and heritage

Response by CW3 Ed Burnette made Jan 18 at 2019 6:30 PM

CW3 Ed Burnette — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 18:30:44 -0500

No. It gives one a sense of pride and identity. What makes the marines so distinguishable is their self discipline, pride, training, uniform and size. And no I am not a marine but one of Army type that spent 20 yrs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2019 8:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:13:23 -0500

I think anyone who is ok with getting rid of unit patches has forgotten what unit pride and esprit de corps is.
Just my 2¢

Response by SSG JimSchan Thomas made Jan 18 at 2019 9:07 PM

SSG JimSchan Thomas — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 21:07:05 -0500

The problem with the USMC is a good PR image is all they got.

Response by Cpl Frank Doss made Jan 18 at 2019 9:45 PM

Cpl Frank Doss — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 21:45:28 -0500

Circuit City was going bankrupt. They figured the thing that would save them was a new logo.
If you really think a new logo will turn the Army into the Marine Corps, you really don't understand the Marine Corps or the Army.
That's not to say that the Army is bankrupt, but rather to say not all is marketing imagery.
The Army's patches represent a long and proud history. If I were Army, I would be infuriated at the prospect.

Response by SGM Charles Twardzicki made Jan 18 at 2019 10:03 PM

SGM Charles Twardzicki — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 22:03:07 -0500

The patches are for us. The Marines have a few patches, but for the most part only care about the Corps. The picture shows two red berets wearing SF patch, but no SF tab, support folks. I like the patches, but having been retired over 20 can’t recognize many Bde or theater patches.

Response by SFC David Patterson made Jan 19 at 2019 8:52 AM

SFC David Patterson — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 08:52:38 -0500

You answered your own question. They can be a recruiting tool. You said yourself civilians ask what you do in the Army. Thats a perfect opportunity to talk about the Army for recruiting purposes. They see a Marine they dont talk to them. Plus, let's not forget the esprit de corp thay comes from being in a specific unit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 9:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 09:48:39 -0500

How about we worry more about our image of being fat, overweight, less competently trained, and less professional. Maybe we should worry more about spending money on these image problems than a piece of cloth. Everyone joining wants to belong to the Best, the best way forward is not with another change in heritage, but actually uphold and or change the current standards to achieve the endstate that we need.

Response by SSG Ron McLane made Jan 19 at 2019 10:09 AM

SSG Ron McLane — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:09:19 -0500

These patches have a long and deep imbedded history of Honor and valor.
Army units are not all the same
It would be a big mistake and a dishonor to the soldiers who gave their lives wearing these patches.
Why would any soldier care if a civilian don't know what they do anyway.
SSG McLane

Response by TSgt Ron Dombrowski made Jan 19 at 2019 10:11 AM

TSgt Ron Dombrowski — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:11:18 -0500

Throughout history, militaries have worn unit crests, special uniforms, patches, and other regalia to identify them, their units and there heritage. They are vital to morale and esprit de corp. Never take them away.

Response by COL Frank Siltman made Jan 19 at 2019 10:34 AM

COL Frank Siltman — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:34:12 -0500

Absolutely not, it’s part of our history and heritage going back to Civil War Corps badges. We already ignore and neglect our heritage. It needs more emphasis not less. There’s also cohesion and morale; I was proud to wear 1ID, 3ID, etc knowing those divisions proud heritage. Marines tried division patches in WWII, and while they don’t wear them, those divisions still use those insignia. Plus the USMC is so small compared to the Army it is more homogeneous

Response by MAJ Charles Dean made Jan 19 at 2019 10:40 AM

MAJ Charles Dean — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:40:45 -0500

This has to be one of the dumbest things next to stress cards in basic I have ever heard of. Guess if you wanted to be a marine then be one. Those patches have history with a story and real meaning. You should try using that as your story line. Each patch has history behind with real hero’s.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Jan 19 at 2019 11:19 AM

1SG Alan Boggs — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 11:19:59 -0500

As a soldier who started his carreer as a Marine, I think patches and unit insignia allow members to feel part of the big machine that is the army. Remember the Army is more than twice the size of the Marines.

Response by CPT Dion Francis made Jan 19 at 2019 11:28 AM

CPT Dion Francis — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 11:28:32 -0500

If you wanted to be a Marine you should have enlisted in the Marines. Or you could have been a bell hop. Either way, no way.

Response by SPC Lance Sumpter made Jan 19 at 2019 12:21 PM

SPC Lance Sumpter — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 12:21:25 -0500

The Army closes with the enemy and destroys them. Tell the civilians that. The unit patches tell our history. Every U.S. Army soldier's purpose is to mass manpower and material to a designated point in in order deliver overwhelming firepower to ensure that the plan works. My lineage runs through the 1ST Cavalry Division. But I love to hear the stories of brother and sister veterans and their ties to their units. But we were all doing the same thing... We were training for and closing with the enemy and destroying them. It's that simple.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 1:13 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:13:58 -0500

As a recruiter, I would love for civilians to ask me about what I do, so I can share my Army Story!

Response by SFC Carmelo Diaz made Jan 19 at 2019 1:21 PM

SFC Carmelo Diaz — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:21:45 -0500

Every soldier should know about their unit history and their unit patch that represents that unit. He should answer proudly to that civilian of the unit history and the patch that he wears which represnts that unit to include what his duties are.

Response by CSM James Armour made Jan 19 at 2019 2:15 PM

CSM James Armour — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:15:27 -0500

Get the damn civilians out of this...they don't have a clue about our Army, it's history and honor that is instilled in the individual soldier who relates to a given organization. Doing away with unit patches is utterly puke....Command Sergeant Major James R. Armour, US Army Retired, Military Police Corps, and damn proud of it...

Response by SPC Michael Dehn made Jan 19 at 2019 3:29 PM

SPC Michael Dehn — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:29:33 -0500

Absolutely not. Competition breeds success.

Unit patches and awards should be displayed as a matter of pride.

I was most proud of my first combat patch. Most of the other guys didn't have one in my unit. We had 1 guy who was in Vietnam and 1 guy who served in Grenada. A couple of us served in Panama. The rest of the unit had naked right arms.

As far as airborne, air assault, cib and so on, let the guys wear their gear.

Those schools and accomplishments are something to be proud of.

Response by CPL Kevin Walters made Jan 19 at 2019 3:40 PM

CPL Kevin Walters — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:40:28 -0500

I agree with my brothers on this. Division patches tell our rich history. Each one has it’s own story of battles fought. You can’t get rid of that. We are not followers, we are the US Army.

Response by MAJ Mark Anderson made Jan 19 at 2019 4:19 PM

MAJ Mark Anderson — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 16:19:40 -0500

I like the distinctive unit insignia (brigade and higher unit patch, battalion crest) because it helps to identify to whom I was talking. I liked leadership tabs when we still did that. It is about the camaraderie and so what if civilians cannot relate to it because Soldiers do.

Response by MSG Dallas Williams made Jan 19 at 2019 5:11 PM

MSG Dallas Williams — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:11:01 -0500

Ok Recruiter - would you prefer to have a civilian ask you about what you do or just make an assumption? Aside from the fact that your comparison of patches & USMC uniforms is like apples to oranges, you should know that marines have patches as well. They just don't wear them on their dress uniform. I recommend stopping the comparisons and Soldier on - Unoted States Armed Forces, ONE TEAM, ONE FIGHT! Hold on to your branch history and traditions...

Response by SSG Patrick Sloan made Jan 19 at 2019 5:24 PM

SSG Patrick Sloan — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:24:11 -0500

That's about the stupidest idea I've ever seen on rally point. That ranks up there with reflective belts in combat zones. We are different from the Marine corps. And we should continue to be so. Not all Army units are equal and there's some that I don't want to be associated with, however being a very proud member of the 82nd Airborne Division at one point my life, I'm very proud of that patch.

Response by SGT Clive Choat made Jan 19 at 2019 5:44 PM

SGT Clive Choat — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 17:44:57 -0500

Personally, I would see it as an opportunity to engage a civilian in conversation and let them know that the Army does much more than just fight wars. As a recruiter, see it as an opportunity, not a negative. Who cares about the Marines image. We are the United States Army.

Response by PO1 Michael Moe made Jan 19 at 2019 6:47 PM

PO1 Michael Moe — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:47:46 -0500

Fuck that. It’s a point of pride and makes according to you the start of a conversation.

Response by 1SG Robert Blanchard made Jan 19 at 2019 6:53 PM

1SG Robert Blanchard — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:53:53 -0500

Hell no...we are THE United States Army...if recruiters cant sell something so great...maybe get new recruiters?

Response by SSG Don Wilson made Jan 19 at 2019 6:54 PM

SSG Don Wilson — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:54:51 -0500

Get your head out of your ass. Too much history in Heraldry.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 8:13 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 20:13:26 -0500

These are the most annoying and embarrassing comments that come from soldiers,"Marine envy" have some Army respect for yourself. We have our own illustrious history and lore.

Response by Sgt Dan Lee made Jan 19 at 2019 9:05 PM

Sgt Dan Lee — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:05:10 -0500

As a Marine we have one job, fight. The Army has many different jobs they should be proud of there patches.

Response by SFC Greg Lunsfordi made Jan 19 at 2019 9:09 PM

SFC Greg Lunsfordi — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:09:16 -0500

The USArmy is a branch of the armed forces. Leave everything alone if it’s not broke don’t fix it

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 9:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:48:44 -0500

Absolutely disagree
Civilians asking questions is an opportunity to break the ice and create discussion.
My combat patch is a tribute and remembrance to two brothers I served with who were better than me.
I think the Marines short change themselves a little bit by not using unit insignia. However I understand the reasoning they use, and they can get away with it, being a small Corp and belonging to the department of the Navy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 9:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:57:19 -0500

I think getting rid of them would be absurd. As many have already stated the patches are rich in tradition. And why, as a recruiter would you not want to have that conversation starter straight up handed to you. I deployed with the 42nd ID (Rainbow) back in 2004-2005. I have had so many people over the years ask me about that patch specifically and I have zero problem sharing the story and history of the division. As I said, they are great conversation starters.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2019 9:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 21:58:16 -0500

You mean like when we allowed people to roll their sleeves like marines and we looked absolutely ridiculous?

Response by LtCol John Currie made Jan 19 at 2019 10:58 PM

LtCol John Currie — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 22:58:41 -0500

Absolutely not. The Army’s traditions and lore should be displayed with pride. I’m a Marine and would never change how we do business. Our history, traditions and lore are critical to success in battle. Same thing with the Army units from Rangers to Green Berets to regular infantry. That history and lore helps fortify the individual in hard times knowing what those who have gone before did to build the reputation of the unit. I truly believe carrying the reputation of those who have gone before brings out the best efforts to avoid letting them down or staining their reputation.

Response by COL Tim Aiken made Jan 20 at 2019 6:32 AM

COL Tim Aiken — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 06:32:15 -0500

This is a ridiculous notion. Our unit patches set us apart from other services and encourage esprit de corps and unit pride. It would be disrespecting all our fallen comrades who helped build the heritage of these units. COL (r) A.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jan 20 at 2019 7:38 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 07:38:20 -0500

I love the Army's patches. So much history

Response by SGT Tommy Hart made Jan 20 at 2019 8:46 AM

SGT Tommy Hart — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 08:46:41 -0500

Wow why would we get rid of unit patches? We’re not going to get rid of the units! Unit patches tell a story of the individual and the unit they belong too! As for the Marines they are not as large as the Army! But it’s the tradition behind the unit patches that differentiate each unit! Unfortunately as we have gone into the 21st century some have thrown traditions and discipline out the window!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 9:12 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 09:12:23 -0500

As a former USAREC battalion Ops O and XO with loads of insight on the marketing and branding, I’ll say this. Patches have nothing to do with why the USMC dominates in some of your Zip Codes. My 2 cents; if every recruiter would put just 20% more effort into prospecting, your companies would make mission.

Response by SGM Gregory Tarancon IV made Jan 20 at 2019 11:05 AM

SGM Gregory Tarancon IV — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:05:17 -0500

We should keep tradition!

Response by SSG Kip Beebe made Jan 20 at 2019 11:51 AM

SSG Kip Beebe — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:51:37 -0500

If you want to blame the woes of USAREC on a patch, then you are further from the truth than you know. The Patches creatw conversation. A novelty to civilians whose interest is spiked by the explanations of Heraldry. Also many of the potential recruits rwcognize them as ones that their ancestors may have worn. Creating a sense of loyalty and comeraderie. Like the kids whose parent played sports for a certain team. Now they too eant to play for that team. Besides, when ddi marketing dictate the laurels of the Army?

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Jan 20 at 2019 11:51 AM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:51:38 -0500

This has been talked about many times. In my opinion, if you dont like the patches then join the Marines. The patches is part of the US Army culture, it shows pride in the unit and the colors of the organization.

Civillians will always ask about what we do in the US Army, it is just out of curiosity about what the patches symbolize. I was and always ill be proud of the patches i wore during my time in the US Army. Each patch has a history and meaning behind it.

I find that some individuals like what they see on the other side of the fence, if that is the case then i recommend that they go that route. I for one was never jealous or even wanted to look like a Marine, so for me its not about the image. Its about much more than that.

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 1:18 PM

2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 13:18:07 -0500

Army is a different service, and we need a lot more recruits to fulfill support positions than the Marines. If you say you are a Marine the thought is "a Marine" which would not appeal to many. I know it didn't appeal to me... Different services, different mission, different size, and of course history.

Response by 1SG Irving Domenech made Jan 20 at 2019 1:41 PM

1SG Irving Domenech — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 13:41:18 -0500

So a recruiter that probably has No patches at all, wants to all be like him and get rid off Army Traditions. Wow!!!

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 2:48 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 14:48:29 -0500

If any change I would rather see a branch related patch i.e. infantry, engineer, armor, etc.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 4:38 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 16:38:25 -0500

No way, no how. Yes, the Marines have had better marketing over the decades (though I think some of the Army stuff I've seen more recently is pretty good). But the division patches in the Army have history behind them. Much of the gap between Army and Marine marketing is the result of something that built up over time. The Marine effort is probably not only to find recruits but to secure their position as separate from the Army. The Army's emphasis in some of its ads on showing people doing civil-engineering and laboratory work seems to both A.) Make a somewhat dishonest representation of what time in the Army is likely to be like for most recruits, and B.) constitutes an effort focused on the nature of a society that has put a little too much emphasis on safety in the raising of youth (too much bicycle helmet). I get the distinct feeling that many families in America look at military service for their newly-grown children and think "Maybe work in a hospital or an electronics workshop, but rifleman? No way." But while there are medical and signals and similar jobs in the military and those are important, we don't have a military for the purpose of working on patients or electronics - we have it for the purpose of defeating armed enemies on battlefields, which takes riflemen. The Army isn't responsible for societal and cultural trends. At the end of the day, Americans have to raise their children to be reasonably brave, tough, and of good and decent character. Toward recruiting young adults possessing those characteristics, I think the Army "Win" ads look like they would be pretty effective.

Response by 1SG William Jackson made Jan 20 at 2019 5:30 PM

1SG William Jackson — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:30:41 -0500

Wow, I was a recruiter and I never felt that it was a symbol that got in the way. We are a much bigger service then the Corp (i.e. we recruit the Marines Corp entire strength into the Army each year). I am impressed with the Corp maintain their same dress and class a uniform since WWII. However, by us surrendering our unit patches equates to us giving up our heritage. We loss ground the more we give up our identity. If you want a symbol then it is our battle streamers. We have vastly more than any other branch and that speaks to the issue.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Jan 20 at 2019 5:40 PM

SSG Rick Miller — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:40:36 -0500

NONSENSE. The Marines are beating the Army at marketing due to reputation and public image. Patches don't make anybody ask what you do, the entire uniform prompts the question. Sorry, son, but if you have to blame piss poor performance on a shoulder patch, I'd wager you suck as a recruiter. Remember, the Marines take islands, the Army takes CONTINENTS. They win battles, we win wars. If someone asks about the patch, explain what it means, explain what it symbolizes. If you can't do that, find another line of work.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 6:40 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:40:41 -0500

Respectfully SSG Private RallyPoint Member , the Army has traditions, and Marines have theirs...it's not broke so don't fix it. If you like the Marines uniforms more, you could always switch services.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 6:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:43:36 -0500

Ahhh, you're Air Defense.....that explains it.

Response by SPC Mike Hough made Jan 20 at 2019 7:55 PM

SPC Mike Hough — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 19:55:49 -0500

If you have to be ONE, be a Big RED One!!! Wore it with pride.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 8:35 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:35:31 -0500

Just my opinion but I’m guessing OP is just salty about having to explain what a combat patch is and not having one.

Response by CPT Rob Scroggins made Jan 20 at 2019 8:47 PM

CPT Rob Scroggins — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:47:04 -0500

Unit patches and other insignia are a source of pride and esptit de corps. If civilians are that interested, they can sign on the line, raise their right hand and take the oath.

Response by SSgt Pablo Hernandez made Jan 20 at 2019 8:53 PM

SSgt Pablo Hernandez — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:53:53 -0500

no, I was in both branches and I earned my CIB and other men like my father was in conflict where he earned his. it represents who they are , when I was a kid and joined the marines I was told every marine was a rifleman but its different both branches have there history and heritage it's how you carry your self feel proud with esprit de corp is the only thing the army doesnt have in none combat arms.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 9:22 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 21:22:59 -0500

CW5 Blackhawk driver with 33 years of servi e still on Acto e Duty. I joined the Army not the Marines. We habe our tradituons they have theirs. If you think recruiting is broken it's probably not broken because of our tradition of wearing unit patches. Leave the patches alone.

Response by CW3 Daniel Felten made Jan 20 at 2019 10:28 PM

CW3 Daniel Felten — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 22:28:45 -0500

The wearing of unit patches allows us to display unit pride. It is a touchstone that heartens back to Army history. This is particularly important for us as Soldiers, especially as the Army seems he’ll-bent on changing our uniforms every 3 years or so. Besides all of this, if a civilian asks you about your patch and what it represents, you get the chance to tell the Army story. Be proud of your patches, Soldiers.

Response by SP6 Dan Thomas made Jan 20 at 2019 11:13 PM

SP6 Dan Thomas — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 23:13:21 -0500

I would never give up my 82 its who i am.

Response by SSG John Jennett made Jan 21 at 2019 10:43 AM

SSG John Jennett — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:43:14 -0500

Since we are an all volunteer force, getting civilians to ask questions is a benefit.

Response by SGT Donald Philpot made Jan 21 at 2019 1:57 PM

SGT Donald Philpot — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 13:57:01 -0500

Keep patches served in 1st cav in the 50s my grandson serving in 1st cav today. Proud of the patch

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2019 2:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:56:52 -0500

I think the exact opposite; Army apparel should become LESS uniform. It's like the big fish in a small pond analogy...

Marines are such a small organization that it's easier for them to have a kinship, and an ingrained sense of pride.

The Army is different. It's large and vastly different from unit to unit. I think BigArmy should make our uniforms LESS uniform to give us more of a sense of regional pride.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2019 7:15 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:15:54 -0500

I mean, im a Marine, and from our standpoint a lot of Marines are kinda jealous that the army can represent their own units in such ways on their uniform, all we can really do is a flak patch that looks like everyone elses with very minor differences that arent noticeable.

Response by GySgt Stanton Wilson made Jan 21 at 2019 7:27 PM

GySgt Stanton Wilson — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 19:27:16 -0500

Having spent 2 tours on recruiters duty for the Marine Corps, I say stand proud and sell your service with pride. On the battle field the only patch anyone will care about is Old Glory. We all serve as one no one loses. Turn their questions into a sales pitch. Always be closing!!! Semper Fidelis #GunnyWilson

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2019 8:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 20:33:46 -0500

First of all Who cares what civilians think.
Second, the marines have always beat us when it comes to uniforms because they have always had higher standards and unfortunately the Army has gotten super soft.
Third, the Marines are known for their difficult basic training.

But I say again, who cares what civilians think. Civilians ask questions because they see our traditions. The Army known for the different schools and units. How hard is it to answer a question? You don’t have to worry about what a civilian thinks if you’re the best at what you do.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2019 11:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 23:05:55 -0500

I think you might want to consider early retirement.

Response by SPC Charlie Robinson made Jan 21 at 2019 11:40 PM

SPC Charlie Robinson — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 23:40:02 -0500

Whether it's a combat patch or a unit patch they all have a history and they all tell a story. I'm proud of the 7th Army patch I wore and I'm sure the majority of soldiers everywhere are too. Why in the world would anyone want to discontinue that tradition. The Marines are one of the great fighting forces of the world. Well, so is the Army and every unit has a story to tell. That patch is the beginning of that story. I say keep it going.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2019 11:46 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 23:46:08 -0500

No. They have their traditions and we have ours. To each their own.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Jan 22 at 2019 1:11 AM

LTC James McElreath — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 01:11:40 -0500

SSG David,
There are very few differences left in our uniform/patches. The patch demotes what you have done, served with, and readily recognized by Army personnel. In fact since you brought it up I really dislike the Army switching to "Pinks and Greens". There was nothing wrong with Army Greens, they changed the shade, fabric etc. but one can tell we were Army. Then some genius thought everyone should switch to a modified Blues uniform. Not Green but at least one can relate to it. The powers that be are now making a stupid switch back to what the leadership did not like either years ago! Why not have all the services dress alike with exception to shoulder patches. Maybe we need to be renamed the" US Military' and look alike. Then they could cut back on Recruiters. I do not advocate all wearing the same uniform but I was tired of the changes when in the service and those changes are creating a strain on the pocket book of those buying their uniforms. If I am not mistaken that is at least everyone in the Army.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 9:11 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 09:11:53 -0500

I see this as a positive thing, as it becomes an opportunity for a conversation, and by extension an opportunity for community relations.
(“I spoke to a Soldier the other day; they were so respectful and so professional...”)

Response by SSG Ty Love made Jan 22 at 2019 9:12 AM

SSG Ty Love — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 09:12:37 -0500

No the Army should not. It establishes espree decor. History of your unique unit, we aren't the Marnes, and not trying to be...Stop the bullshit

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jan 22 at 2019 2:31 PM

LTC John Griscom — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:31:32 -0500

When and why did the Marines stop wearing their patches. I have my father's 1st MAW patch from WW II.

Response by SPC Eric Zimmerer made Jan 22 at 2019 3:10 PM

SPC Eric Zimmerer — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:10:42 -0500

Unit patches are a symbol of pride to some units that go back to WW1. I was in such a unit in Germany, 3/32FA. I liked the patch, especially on my dress greens. Keep it!

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jan 22 at 2019 11:19 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 23:19:07 -0500

The Army are not Marines, so what is the problem? I am proud of my combat with the 1st CAV what is wrong with that? What is with these question, NO one loves me? My feelings are hurt. Grow a back bone not a feel good. You are in the military not kindergarten. You joined the best act like it or get out.

Response by SPC Michael Rioux made Jan 24 at 2019 8:02 AM

SPC Michael Rioux — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 08:02:04 -0500

You could give everyone a beret.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Feb 11 at 2019 10:04 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 10:04:49 -0500

Do we really have to fix everything that's not broken? Patches are cool. Patches are unique. Patches communicate a LOT with just a glance. Keep patches? Let's have MORE patches! We probably don't have enough! Hooah! #Tradition!

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 17 at 2019 9:17 AM

CPT Larry Hudson — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 09:17:58 -0500

IED identification is historical and informative to civilian population. I stimulates espre de corps. Military needs to trash the present globalist head gear. We are not French but unique American military.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2019 8:46 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 20:46:59 -0500

I like the patches. And I can say I'm very excited to earn my first unit patch later this year once I finally go to my first unit after AIT. The EGA is definitely powerful, and because my dad is a retired Marine I will always feel a sense of pride for that EGA, but there is pride and history in the unit patches as well. It's a symbol that says "this is what I work for". When you have a certain unit patch, you take its history with you. It becomes part of you and it becomes something to share with civilians and other service members. Everyone knows 1st Cav when they see it. I also think it's nice because it unites all MOSs in that unit for a common cause. That's my two cents.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Apr 12 at 2019 7:20 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:20:18 -0400

Not just no, but hell no!

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jun 30 at 2019 11:35 AM

SGT Mathew Husen — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:35:38 -0400

Stupid question to ask.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jun 30 at 2019 11:43 AM

COL William Oseles — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:43:40 -0400

Sounds like missing an opportunity as the different patches got the person talking with the recruiter.
The patches serve as an advertising hook as marketing types are ALLWAYS looking for ways to get people talking about their product.

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Jun 30 at 2019 11:46 AM

1SG Bill Farmerie — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:46:34 -0400

Are you sure you are a recruiter? Most recruiters would welcome the start of a conversation. The start of the conversation could assist you in getting them to enlist or to cultivate the person to refer people to you to enlist. While I was a recruiter, I definitely would have whole heartedly welcomed any questions from civilians to get a dialogue going.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 12:07 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:07:25 -0400

From the recruiting perspective, it's important to remember that a recruiter for the USMC is responsible for a slim fraction of the mission an Army recruiter must accomplish each month/year.
Anyone not asking questions simply doesn't know any better.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 12:42 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:42:12 -0400

Why does anyone want to do away with unit patches? These patches represent a pride of unit history. We can’t go to one general emblem for everyone, we can’t do away with the historical lineage because civilians are confused!! Quit messing with the Military, these damn civilians need to stay out military matters.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 1:11 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:11:57 -0400

Question. Why do we care about branding? We are the military. Why the hell should we care about being beat in a marketing campaign? Who the hell cares. Our patches represent our heritage & continuing history. The Marines have the same with theirs as does the navy, air force (joke), and coast guard. This whole marketing idea is a serious problem. It has brought several unfirom changes. Emblem changes that take away who we are. Like the guard emblem. We are citizen soldiers & the minuteman is who we are. Not the army logo version. Also changing uniforms to a time from ww2 is stupid. Supposedly we were at our most loved by the country. Whoopee do! The Ppl don't care how we look, or how we're liked or anything. They want 1 thing from the military. To protect this country & destroy the enemy. If anything we all should be wearing the combat uniforms. As we are all 1 military.

Response by LtCol Mark Bramwell made Jun 30 at 2019 1:46 PM

LtCol Mark Bramwell — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:46:14 -0400

If USAREC is getting beat by the Marines when it comes to image then the issue isn’t a patch... hell you just got the badass Pink and Greens back. Ditch the berets, put rank ensignia back on your cammie lapels, do some pushups and run 5 miles; you’ll be fine!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 30 at 2019 2:42 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:42:40 -0400

No. I take pride in my unit. I love my patch.

Response by Al Reynolds made Jul 1 at 2019 7:05 AM

Al Reynolds — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:05:19 -0400

If I remember correctly we only had the one shoulder patch in the Navy.... It was the name of your ship so the Shore Patrol knew what stack to throw you into when you were too drunk to know who you were or where you belonged.... We didn't need no stupid patches... We were sailors...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2019 9:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 09:21:35 -0400

Aw. Hell no. We earned it. It is a part of our heraldry. We are not the Marines. We have our own history and traditions. If you as a recruoter have a hard time making mission, maybe it is time to look into something else to overcome your objections. But taking away history and heraldry is not the answer.

Response by SFC David Fullmer made Jul 5 at 2019 10:56 AM

SFC David Fullmer — Fri, 05 Jul 2019 10:56:07 -0400

Why can’t Army leadership give up its envy of the Marine Corps. We will never have better uniforms even after changing every 3-5 years. “Once a Marine always a Marine” will always be more believable than “Soldier for life”. The Army will never be a better Marine Corps than the Marine Corps. The Army only has to be the best land force there is. If it’s leadership could focus on this, everything will fall into place.

Response by SFC William Ewing made Jul 30 at 2019 12:02 AM

SFC William Ewing — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:02:05 -0400

Army patches are our ST A
If anything the Marines should being back theirs
It really dressed up their uniforms then.

My understanding is the patches were done away with because people who had no combat patchs wanted to look like everyone else.
Army tried to take the combat patches seat back in the late eighties, was killed by Desert Storm.

At one time there were only two combat patches in the senior NCO the SGM and myself

Response by SFC William Ewing made Jul 30 at 2019 12:03 AM

SFC William Ewing — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:03:28 -0400

Should be EGA not STA

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 3:41 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 03:41:59 -0400

Funny, even my marine baddies are asked what the did while in. I don’t see any reason to change anything

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Jul 30 at 2019 9:10 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:10:40 -0400

I’ll offer the same comment I made to a similar question recently.....the Army’s devotion to unit patches is part of what makes the Army “unit-centric”. My experience with soldiers (mostly veterans) is that they think of unit first. If they served in multiple units, the “Army” may be a distant 3rd or 4th. To Marines, the Corps comes first. Units are important, but secondary to that. If the Army is satisfied with bring unit-centric, all well and good. But it won’t change until unit patches are no longer worn on uniforms (IMHO).

Response by SGM Lonnie Durand made Jul 30 at 2019 9:29 AM

SGM Lonnie Durand — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:29:39 -0400

Makes no sense. If a civilian asks you what you do, tell them you’re a a Soldier. BOOM! Want to expand on the patch? Learn how they came to be. 7th ID, not as prevalent today, we called the patch “the crushed beer can”. Associated with black widow spiders in some unit symbols. The patch developed by making a 7, then placing an inverted 7 over the original-hourglass. All patches have their own meaning. God Bless the Marines, I love them, but we’re Soldiers and we don’t need to be Marines.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Jul 30 at 2019 9:47 AM

SFC Michael Arabian — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:47:11 -0400

I’m proud of the time I served in the Army and most of the units I was assigned to. If someone wants to dress like a Marine and do what the public thinks the Marines do, than maybe they should join the Marines. Stop changing the way the Military does things just because it hurt someone feelings

Response by SSG Danny Anderson made Jul 30 at 2019 10:49 AM

SSG Danny Anderson — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:49:35 -0400

Stick to tradition. The Army shouldn't have to change or break tradition just to compete with the Marines. As a former Marine as well as a Marine recruiter, the Marine make their numbers because they sell themselves of the pride of being a Marine. If the Army would do that, they wouldn't have to worry about about changing tradition. The Army has been known for patches all these years. It is a conversation starter piece especially in recruiting.

Response by PO2 Tony Divito made Jul 30 at 2019 1:43 PM

PO2 Tony Divito — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:43:13 -0400

Externally, apart from the ratings and badges, all USN uniforms are identical. SEAL service uniforms are the same as Machinist Mates or Yeoman uniforms. Internally, ships/squadron patches are common with working uniforms. Especially in Naval Aviation. Personally, the less clutter the better, including ribbons and badges. When I look at Army uniforms, it reminds me of NASCAR drivers suit.

Response by SFC Stephen Matthews made Jul 30 at 2019 2:21 PM

SFC Stephen Matthews — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:21:50 -0400

I was a recruiter for 14 years I disagree wholeheartedly

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Jul 30 at 2019 3:07 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 15:07:26 -0400

The Army is a larger Branch than the Marines by far and the patches on uniforms have a tradition going back a long way. It’s incentive for new troops to look at an E7’s uniform and see he was a Drill Sergeant or recruiter at one time, is a combat veteran, has a combat infantry badge, etc.

Response by SFC Chuck Kean made Jul 30 at 2019 3:21 PM

SFC Chuck Kean — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 15:21:39 -0400

As a former Recruiter I think you are missing an opportunity to engage with people who could include potential applicants. It’s called an icebreaker if they are asking what you do in the Army. Also, I encounter people everyday that interact with Marines and they still ask what that person did in the Corps.

Response by SGT T M made Jul 30 at 2019 6:44 PM

SGT T M — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:44:25 -0400

No. Change nothing. Patches are not the reason someone isn't making mission.

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Jul 30 at 2019 8:29 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:29:01 -0400

If a potential recruit told me he'd rather join the Marines because of a unit patch, I'd offer to drive him to the USMC recruiter and let them deal with an obvious dimwit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 10:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:26:24 -0400

My combat patch and CIB got me more enlistments....they knew I was talking from experience.

Response by Cpl Bill Spradlin. made Jul 30 at 2019 10:45 PM

Cpl Bill Spradlin. — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:40 -0400

As a Marine I think the Army should embrace the patches on uniforms it is the Army's unique history and should be "Army Pride".

Response by SP5 Eric Rockwell made Jul 31 at 2019 6:10 AM

SP5 Eric Rockwell — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 06:10:26 -0400

When I was a kid before I joined I idolized my older brother who was of course serving. I would visit him and just loved watching all the soldier's running around post. It was one of the biggest leading factors to me joining. I was disappointed of course when o got to basic because my uniform didnt look like those soldier,s I remembered. We didnt have patches (plus other things). Just like the dawning of the beret, when I recieved my first patch and was able to put it on my left shoulder I know I made it. I earned my place and was a regular soldier. It was a moment of pride.

I dont give a damn what a civilian thinks. Those are huge moment,s in th path from civilian to solder and Marines have they're own.

Leave the patch alone.

Response by TSgt Ken Mock made Aug 18 at 2019 2:49 PM

TSgt Ken Mock — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 14:49:50 -0400

How about we just stamp everyone wrist, like they do at the clubs

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2019 10:30 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:30:36 -0400

Nope. Hell no. I think it instill pride in an unit and its history. When I got to the 173rd I couldn't wait to slap on that patch because I knew I was joining an excellent organization and there's pride in that. The one gripe I have with patches and our current uniform is I wish we could remove the velcro and just sew it on. After a few washes and some time in the field, patches and flags don't stick like they should. But that's for a separate conversation.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Sep 17 at 2019 11:02 AM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:02:55 -0400

I have only had a few different patches over the years but I love the patches. I would few naked if I did not have my arrowhead
they need to keep em, there are a lot of areas the army can do things different that will make things better but this aint one.

Response by 1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel made Sep 17 at 2019 11:06 AM

1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:06:09 -0400

I never took the time to learn about the Army unit/division patches because I never needed to. I recall in the 70’s we wore a unit patch on our green “fatigue” uniform, in my case the USAF Hospital, Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ. By the time I came back as an officer, there were camo-patterned “BDU’s” but no unit patch. I did have my “MSC” Corps badge over the name tape on the BDU and the brushed silver or chrome MSC badge over my ribbons on dress or work uniform (in my case Medical Service Corps). One very positive thing is that medical specialists who are enlisted got a Corps Badge on their uniforms as well. Back in the nasty Vietnam Era I got the “Baby killer” invective tossed at me at O’Hare. I wanted so bad to reply “you idiot, I’m a medic!” As my uniform then made no distinction, not that it mattered during that day. I got called out as a Navy Sea Cadet, for goodness sake, at age 15! But we proudly wore the uniform, so we were honored to receive the nastiness. What a shame it has been when our own citizens would call us out for doing our duty on their behalf. I am so glad those days are over....sorry for the topic bleed off the subject....

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Sep 17 at 2019 4:02 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:02:40 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I say NO. The Army is the Army and not the Marines and therefore should have their own UNIQUE and Individual patches.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Sep 17 at 2019 4:20 PM

SFC William Farrell — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:20:10 -0400

No!

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Sep 17 at 2019 4:31 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:31:54 -0400

Nope. I kinda surprised that this question came up at all.
The Pride in those patches are a real thing and not to be taken lightly

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Sep 17 at 2019 7:14 PM

MSG Greg Kelly — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:14:53 -0400

NO! but some jackass will push it

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2019 7:00 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 19:00:53 -0400

Keep unit patches! They provide a sense of pride and belonging to that units rich history. Its good for esprit de corps and breeds competition among all the units of the Army to be the best unit which ends up making everyone stronger in the end.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2019 10:15 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:15:12 -0500

We arent getting beat by the USMC because of patches, it's because of recruiting as a whole. We havent figured out how to recruit the newer generation of people yet, and are still running off post 911 cruitin with the whole "we were attacked, we need you to go hand it to the enemy". Problem is, the kids were targeting literally werent born when that happened. We need to explain things like were the only service that a person can pick their MOS, free college both in and after service, different opportunities in the service like attache, courier, the places one can travel (and methods to do so!!).
But we still teach Recruiter to just sell used cars, and tell their Army story instead of teaching them more of the stuff the army can offer like WCAP, SOF, WHCA, WHTA, JCU. But again, big USAREC just says "dont worry about what they do later, just get em to IET and you get your #", give the candidate options and stuff to strive for, be able to explain units, mos' (beyond what goarmy.com says), how army schools work, special assignments, how assignments work.
Use this as a way to find out those answers to be able to best inform your recruit.
And remember, production MAY NOT be used against you on an NCOER, fill the Army with quality, dont worry about other services. Each service looks for different traits, if they wanna be a Marine let them be a Marine. It's still DOD, all the branches need to be filled no matter what is happening.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2020 9:37 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:37:31 -0400

As a marine.... no. Having patches gives another cemented sense of belonging.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 21 at 2020 11:13 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 23:13:54 -0400

The marines had unit patches until some point after ww2. I would look into their reasoning and then look at the army's reasoning for keeping them. Personally its always a joy to come across a unit patch I had and strike up a conversation.