Should the Army Reserves and National Guard require a promotion board as they do AD soldiers?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:47:19 -0500

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 5:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:50:18 -0500

We do have boards. However due to manning restrictions of PT service, our file goes to the board. Promotions are hard enough in the Guard/Reserves!!! Why make it more difficult. We've proven over the past 15 years that our abilities equal that of Active troops.

Response by CSM William Payne made Dec 30 at 2015 6:21 PM

CSM William Payne — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:21:38 -0500

For what rank are you referring to? Active duty boards are centralized for most ranks outside of junior promotions and even junior enlisted get promoted automatically unless the commander can give just cause not to.

The Army has had centralized promotions for years because their records have been in PERMS. The Reserve Boards have been moving that way with the biggest obstacle being the conversion all of the Soldier's records to PERMs. Officers records were almost 100% in the Reserves for years now, enlisted not so much. The Reserves is modeling AD, not the other way around.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Dec 30 at 2015 6:24 PM

LTC John Shaw — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:24:01 -0500

Yes, promotion boards are the best way for the Command to manage and select the best qualified soldiers. Bottom line: This is typically CSM/1SG business and the board process helps shape the future NCO leadership of all the Commands.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 7:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:54:23 -0500

The board is not just about how you look in your uniform, but it's paramount in the basic description of a Soldier. The board is necessary to see how you react under pressure, when faced with difficult or easy questions. If you can't perform infront of your superiors well enough how will you perform infront of your subordinates, and the public when tasked to do such. The board also shows the Soldiers ability to study and retain what he/she learned. Same thing goes if we should test out like other branches i.e. Airforce/Navy. I think the Army has the best promoting system because it puts 60% of the soldiers points in his/her hands, so either go out and accomplish them or sit back get passed up and or separated accordingly. Just my thoughts.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 8:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 20:08:31 -0500

Yes. There is a skill set and perpetration work that goes into the promotion board. There is a reason that we still do them on Active duty. Just my $0.02

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 8:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 20:13:49 -0500

Reserve units can be pretty spread out. A unit in Nevada may have a battalion headquarters in Illinois. For that reason alone, it doesn't make sense to have boards similar to the Active component. Unless, of course, you think company grade officers should be the approving authority for SGT and SSG promotions.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 30 at 2015 9:29 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 21:29:29 -0500

When I was promoted to SGT I had to stand a board. By the time SSG rolled around the Reserve went to a paper board. Due to time restrictions and such, it was a good way to go. Later on as a unit NCOIC (acting 1SG) I sat on several boards. A lot of work goes into the boards. As a SGM I Presided over promotion boards. Promotion in the Reserve is the same as Active Duty, we use the same forms and such, just our boards are paper and AD-they stand. I've heard National Guard is different, but can't say or will not comment on their process.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Dec 31 at 2015 12:16 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:16:46 -0500

Otherwise you would have a "bunch of Indians" and no "Chiefs".

Response by CPT John M. O'Connor made Dec 31 at 2015 1:46 PM

CPT John M. O'Connor — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:46:16 -0500

Yes and why not. I think it adds to the credibility and unity.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 5:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:35:42 -0500

I voted yes but, I have no idea how the current system works, so, I don't know if it's better or not. Maybe I shouldn't vote on issues I'm not informed on haha

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 7:57 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 07:57:41 -0500

I think so because in the RC and NG, soldiers are just handed the rank if their paperwork looks good. If they are made to go to a board then the committee see who they are or aren't promoting in person.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 6:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 18:26:40 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member , this would be a great idea! It would be a better way to vet potential NCOs rather than the current 'paper board'. Granted, the good 'ole boy system could make this null, but it would be a step in the right direction!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2016 12:03 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:03:47 -0500

Should? Absolutely. It is possible? Unfortunately no. I've been a board member myself and I can't agree more with having the service member present during the promotion board. Almost anybody can meet the minimum requirement and "look good" on paper. However; as someone expressed before; it is almost impossible due to how geographical dispersed are most of the Reserve/NG units from their BN's.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2016 7:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 07:58:03 -0500

Every State is different, apparently. Indiana Army National Guard runs boards, but I don't think Ohio Army National Guard does.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2016 9:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:29:16 -0500

I believe we should go back to physical board appearances for SGT and SSG promotions. I believe its a testament to a Soldiers willingness, eagerness and drive to prepare to go in front of a board of your senior leaders. I think its mutually beneficial for both the recommended Soldier and the board members, 1) the entire experience from studying to appearing at the board is good for development and 2) it allows for our senior leaders to gauge promotion and leadership potential and provide good mentorship to junior Soldiers.

-I would say I'm slightly bias because on this topic because I'm an AGR Soldier and I had to go before an AD board for my promotion, but I will also say it was a great experience and I learned a lot not only from studying but the feedback I received at the board as well - which is something you can't get from a paper board.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2016 8:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 08:10:32 -0500

I think they should but it's not going to happen. I know I'm not driving to another state just to stand in a board. They wouldn't pay me either. The Reserves are spread out entirely to much. I'm in Ohio and my battalion is in New York. Brigade is at Benning and Div HQ is in North Carolina.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 2:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:59:09 -0500

Logistically speaking I have to say no, because where the board could be located to where the soldier lives. Would there be funding available to pay for the soldier to travel to the location the board is. Just so they could attend it, then have to pay the travel back to their home. In some cases it could be 3 days of pay and travel. That can quickly added up to 1000 plus. And if they are turned down, the Army just paid 1,000 plus just to turn down a soldier. Besides what the team on the board got paid to be there. If they needed to travel to show up, it could add up to 5,000 to 10,000 dollars spent for all soldiers to be there. Since more just than one soldier goes to the board, it could actually cost up to 20,000 plus for all soldiers to be their. And that is a low estimate. So logistically, are you kidding me!. And if it mirrored Active Duty boards, you could get to 80,000 plus a year. And that just for one Reserve Battalion Add up the rest of the Reserve Battalions and it would be millions a year needed. So again logistically it would be too costly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 6:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:37:01 -0500

It would be nice to weed out the rifraff from getting undeserved promotions. The truth is we simply do not have the time!
The traditional M-Day Soldier has a packet that gets submitted to a board. They convene and conduct a paper board, which is where the points come from on the EPS lists. This board is weighted differently with the administrative points for different ranks.

For command positions from the 1SG and up there are still regular, face to face military boards. AGR hiring also requires a board to interview. So do select statewide vacancies, but some SWVA's are done by paper board as well.

In the end, if you are an NCO and don't feel that one of your troops should be promoted, do the due diligence to stop it! Don't recommend promotion in your reviews, and have the counseling forms to show why. Explain to your command why the Soldier is not ready so they will not be added to the list. Then provide the training that Soldier needs to advance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 2:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:35:12 -0500

I am an AGR Soldier and I've said for the longest that I personally believe it's backwards. Everyday I come to work and show my proficiency in my field and my ability to handle the tasks at hand, while TPU Soldiers put together paperwork to make themselves look good and sit back and wait for promotion. I believe TPU soldiers should be required to present themselves before the board, it would make most work harder and study harder than they currently do. AGR Soldiers promotions should be based off their packet and also their work performance (if their packet is submitted within their chain of command). Ultimately Commanders have the sign the packet so as an AGR Soldier if my commander signs is that not good enough to say I'm good at what I do without presenting myself?
Just my 2 cents

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 5 at 2016 10:42 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:42:23 -0400

Have responded to this thread.