Should the Army's height/weight program be changed?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 13:59:42 -0400

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Jun 8 at 2016 2:04 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 14:04:50 -0400

This is a thorn and both current and former members should reply. I think it should reflect the actual endurance and physical needs of the job (the whole military). There needs to be a standard, and a way to measure it. But it is not fair... An over weigh person with a big neck could pass tape with a body builder with a small neck would fail... I am not sure if it is still that dumb but...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 2:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 14:40:35 -0400

Absolutely. There are soldiers who appear fit, and can't run, can't perform sit ups, or push ups, but they can do just enough to pass. Where as myself, I can run 13s, max push ups, max sit ups, but in order to not be taped I can only be 185lbs. I weigh 215. So when that test comes up I have to go through extreme measures to pass but I don't look fat. I don't jiggle I just have a slim neck.

That being said, if SSG fatass really is fat, he is good because he has a thick neck. It's fat. It's a fat neck. But it's ok because the algorithm says he's good to go

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 4:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 16:11:03 -0400

Yes. Will they do it? That is the question.

Response by SPC Jillian O'Malley made Jun 8 at 2016 4:44 PM

SPC Jillian O'Malley — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 16:44:42 -0400

Yes, it should. I would still be in today if it wasn't for the strict standards of weight. I was able to ETS honorably, but had a bar to reenlistment because I couldn't pass tape. I scored a 300 on PT tests 4 times in my 5 years in, and even my first PT test ever in basic I scored a 250. I trained hard for those 300s, but I couldn't control my given genetics. The tape test is severely flawed, on one of the several times I failed a tape test, I paid to have a dunk tank test done, the results? I was well within Army standard for bodyfat percentage but the dunk tank test is unauthorized even though its dramatically more accurate than the tape test.

Sorry for the slight rant, I have always been a bit bitter about this because I wanted to be a lifer

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 5:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 17:28:58 -0400

Under the current system the Army may as well just order a large quantity of Abercrombie and Fitch posters with the caption of "All soldiers are directed to look like this as- except for the haircuts. And being all white. Non-white soldiers may retain their issued skin tone"

Response by SPC Darren Koele made Jun 8 at 2016 8:36 PM

SPC Darren Koele — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 20:36:45 -0400

Absolutely. Height/weight tell very little of an individual's story. This is normally where I tell a story involving anecdotal evidence. Instead of doing that this time, let me show you a picture:
JJ Watt - Height: 6'5", Weight 289lbs. Using the height/weight calculation, this equlsl a BMI of 34.1.
JJ Watt is morbidly obese.

Think about it. Under military regulations, he would be forced out the service.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 2:51 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 02:51:28 -0400

Yes. It needs to be changed to prevent false DA Forms 5500 and 5501.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 9 at 2016 10:13 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:13:22 -0400

Sure. you bet.. What is your recomendation that meets all the needs of the program?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 9 at 2016 10:19 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:19:52 -0400

Lots of "Yes it should change" opinions, not a single basic suggestion, , never mind indepth recommendation of how it could be changed that would be realistically useable in the mission role of the US military, implemented down to the company level worldwide, in a scalable program fitting all Army units. Standards equitable to all servicemembers, testable with consistency, a system and tools available to all units down to the company level in all assigned geographic areas..

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 2:53 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:53:42 -0400

It should be based upon other, more critical factors, like BMI. Why should a 4'11", 100# female get inducted over a male with matching height and weight who has a BMI of 1%??? It's patently unfair. In the overall general population, he would typically ace her in most, if not all, physical agility tests.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 11:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 23:39:32 -0400

I do not like the tape test to start with. What I really don't like is you can have 8 different people in 8 different rooms in a 8 minute time frame and get 8 different measurement, this is 8UP. The people taping are NOT properly trained on what they are doing, I personally have never been given a class, never was taught it in PLDC, BNCOC, ANCOC (yes i'm old) it was always 600-9 explains it. When we are talking something that effects Soldiers careers like this it needs to be done by trained persons, Master Fitness Trainers, Dietitians, or medics.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 10 at 2016 2:22 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:22:29 -0400

I had a platoon leader who was at least 6ft 5 and weighed about 240+, about 1% body fat (he was a triathlete) I had to write a letter every physical and send him in to be taped. If you fail, and know you are overweight, you already know the problem.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2016 3:40 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:40:54 -0400

Since there are thoughts of letting the standards stretch for Cyber perhaps we need to look at changing the standards overall.
There's overweight and then there's just plain fat. Sometimes what is considered overweight is still a Soldier who appears fit and Soldierly and can pass all other physical and proficiency tests required to remain in the military. Unfortunately, the 'appears fit and Soldierly' is not quantifiable in nature so we use this silly tape test.
So maybe it needs to come down to a fitness board for those who do not meet the tape test by a certain margin. It would require a majority of 10 SNCOs to approve that the Soldier is fit and Soldierly. Each weigh-in would require that the next board would have no more than 50% of SNCOs that have previously evaluated the SM in the past year.
Amount of effort required at BN level: minimal. Soldier can be evaluated immediately after the weigh-in/tape.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 24 at 2016 10:39 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Mon, 24 Oct 2016 10:39:21 -0400

No, the American society should change.