Should the DoD recognize Moral Injury as a disorder like it recognizes PTSD from over a decade of war?

2014-03-20T10:11:46-04:00

<p>Should the DoD recognize Moral Injury as a disorder like it recognizes PTSD from over a decade of war?</p><p><br></p><p>According to the article, moral injury is the pain that results from damage to a person's moral foundation.</p><p><br></p><p>I think we as a country have spent countless hours and money fighting PTSD but have ignored other possible issues that service members are facing while performing numerous deployments to a combat zone.</p><p><br></p><p>Thoughts?</p><p><br></p><p>http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/moral-injury</p><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://e.huffpost.com/datadot/images/projects/moral-injury/1-grunts-helicopter-small-46778ee47b8dc5b9314612a6fa8a8610.jpg"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a href="http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/moral-injury" target="_blank">Moral Injury - The Huffington Post</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">Some troops leave the battlefield injured. Others return from war with mental wounds. Yet many of the 2 million Iraq and Afghanistan veterans suffer from a condition the Defense Department refuses to ...</div></div><div style="clear: both;"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 10:17 AM

2014-03-20T10:17:24-04:00

I think we all knew what we were getting into, this is gonna just have more people take advantage of the system

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 20 at 2014 11:15 AM

2014-03-20T11:15:02-04:00

PTSD had, in a way, become a catch-all for the mental/moral/psychological damage that soldiers experience from war. I don't think separating out "moral injury" will really do anything important in helping soldiers. If a soldier's moral foundation was shaken by combat and deployment then they are going to be "traumatized" by that experience and thus would be classified as having PTSD. It might be worth considering as a trigger/cause of PTSD but it should not be separate in my opinion

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-03-26T11:40:47-04:00

Thank you for your service SSG Espinosa. It takes a lot for an individual to acknowlege they need help.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-03-26T11:40:59-04:00

Great article.  I think PTSD is something we are going to have to deal with for many years to come.  I'm not saying we all have PTSD, but after going to combat I cannot say that I have known anyone who came back the same as they were before.  I just hope that the VA continues to take PTSD seriously as long as there is still a need for it, which I think will be for the long haul.

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Jan 29 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-01-29T09:37:00-05:00

Absolutely, as a currently practicing VA and Military Criminal and Admin Defense Attorney (former Marine JAG), I have seen it in the Vets I represent and have counseled. There must be some kind of significant recognition regarding the FACT that combat veterans lost something serving in combat (their innocence, their faith in the goodness of people, in life itself, In God). Just because it is hard to define, or hard to quantify "Moral Injury" it does not mean we should not try and that psychologists and psychiatrists in the Military and the VA should not recognize, that there are Chris Kyle's out there who might not have the physical wounds to match their Spiritual or Psychical Wounds especially when they have killed and seen a lot of death on the battlefields, or lost close friends, over multiple combat deployments. The people that care about them the most, their spouses, children, family and friends know there is something wrong, something has changed. We should not have to wait, until drug or alcohol abuse occurs, or suicidal risk taking (driving motorcycles in a reckless manner often comes to mind-How many combat vets die after coming back home and getting killed in a motorcycle accident, or some other reckless behavior, bar fights, etc.). My mother's step-father came home from WWII as a severely PTS Navy Combat vet, who became a lifelong alcoholic, and an emotionally abusive father (I saw this first hand). He was never physically wounded repelling Kamikaze Attacks at the end of the War off Okinawa on the USS Guam, but the War changed him profoundly. He never sought or got help in his life for his PTS. One of my earliest memories as a toddler was going to the Norco/Corona California American Legion with my grandfather and being in the company Great but wounded men like Audie Murphy and other Heroes of the Greatest Generation. They never saw themselves that way, they just "Did their job" and were survivors of the Big War. But so many of them suffered in silence, or tamed their demons on their own, often by relying on Beer and hard Liquor to get them through the bad memories and the PTS. Their families knew but usually did not intrude. The idea of doing an "intervention" on a PTS WWII Combat Vet back in the 60s or 70s is laughable. It just did not happen back then , and most of these men, these wounded warrior, were functional but haunted by what they smelled, heard, seen, experienced and lived in WWII.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jan 29 at 2015 10:34 AM

2015-01-29T10:34:18-05:00

Can I be afforded moral injury reparations for voting in elections? If the definition is as COL Vincent Stoneking says, then I feel that I have to choose evil to vote.

I think in general we have gotten too PC and too whiny about these things. First and foremost the military is about fighting a war. Within our description is the killing of people, destruction of property, and in a few historical examples, conquering of countries (that we then gave back). What we do is not very nice, and if you go in thinking otherwise then you need to be set straight or get out.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 29 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-01-29T15:09:59-05:00

I am not sure the separation of the PTSD and the Moral question is going to happen anytime soon. A big part of my PTSD therapy is the Moral question, which is sometimes very tormenting as many know. I believe PTSD is diagnosed becasue it is known, common (unfortunately) and the treatments are clear.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-01-29T15:37:06-05:00

We're all volunteers. We weren't force to sign on the dotted line. I agree with a couple of the other opinions in this thread. Any moral objection to war went out the window when you signed up. You joined the Military, you don't get to come back later and say that it was against your morals to serve in the mail room at KAF or BAF. PTSD has so many facets- those of us that suffer from PTSD certainly are at times conflicted morally, but IMO that part of it will be addressed in treatment of PTSD- not in the treatment of a moral injury.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-01-29T15:45:17-05:00

CPT Brandon Christensen. This new age moral injury proposal is going to be a pretty tough sell with budget, professional practice, insurance, and liability practitioners until sufficient hard core statistical evidence based on extensive medical research demonstrates a medical / psychological condition exists, can be reliably diagnosed, and can be reliably treated under a generally accepted medical standard of care, with some reasonable prospect for resolution of the proposed condition, and with new assigned Medicaid, ICD, DSM codes. Please keep in mind we do not generally fund medical treatment for conditions that cannot be resolved by medical treatment. Otherwise this new age moral injury proposal seems more appropriate for referral to psychological mumbo jumbo and lawyers. Warmest Regards, Sandy

p.s. I believe we must focus and resolve issues killing veterans before we invest in new age moral injury care.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jan 29 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-01-29T15:47:42-05:00

LT Christenson,

There is no such thing as a moral injury. IF you have the morals, they are not something another can damage. You can regret your choices and fall into actual PTSD because you failed to follow your morals and the article is just another symptom of the rot effecting our culture.

Response by LTC Chris Norton made Jan 29 at 2015 4:03 PM

2015-01-29T16:03:42-05:00

OK, I can't even read that thing. Must be my ADD.

So, not having read it, my philosophy, very broadly, is: If going to see the elephant does not change you, something was probably wrong with you to begin with.

Everyone deals with it-all of it- differently.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 29 at 2015 6:41 PM

2015-01-29T18:41:38-05:00

I'm curious what a 'Moral Injury' actually is. I am not being an asshole, I just want to know.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 3 at 2015 11:48 PM

2015-02-03T23:48:51-05:00

"Moral injury" is a term used in the mental health community to describe the psychological damage service members face when their actions in battle contradict their moral beliefs.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 4 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-02-04T17:39:30-05:00

I think everyone here understood what we swore. But there is only so much the human mind can process before it brakes. Violence is not normal and repeated exposure to it changes your brain chemistry. (Physically alters your hormones. Effects the way your heart beats, the way you digest food and sleep cycles.) Especially in this climate, some troops have witnessed and perpetrated things that could be considered close to war crimes. You can't just kill and kill and not have emotions. There's a term for that...psychopath. Not all aspects of these wars are clean and good. Killing women and children no matter how justified effects the psyche. And repeated deployments only cause further injury. You can't train morality, compassion and empathy out of people who have it. There's no denying this, motivation to kill has much to do with how the act is processed. I think some troops are not sure if what they are doing out there is always right. I think there's a quote, "the first casualty of war us truth" or something like that. I have a feeling civilians have no idea what some of these troops have had to do and to come home and go to Home Depot and BBQ like nothing happened doesn't compute well and this should be recognized and treated for the emotional damage it caused to the person. Sadly we will be hearing more and more about this...

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-02-04T18:53:11-05:00

I don't think so, CPT Brandon Christensen. We'd need to have a moral standard or a moral compass to recognize "moral injury," and that (a moral standard) is essentially impossible in our anything goes society and way of life. Concepts like "faith in God" are not allowed in this day and age, so how do we measure "moral injury"?

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 5 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-02-05T10:25:26-05:00

Good read for those who want to know more about this...
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/newsletters/research-quarterly/v23n1.pdf

Response by SGT(P) Bruce Van Havermaet made Feb 18 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-02-18T17:08:26-05:00

I have to say no.we should know right from wrong

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 30 at 2017 9:54 AM

2017-05-30T09:54:35-04:00

Wait, I'll get my crying towel. There needs to be a line between anxiety and PTSD.